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00:00:11 <chillcore> some things have changed for the worse 00:00:38 <chillcore> like when you have no internet 65% of your stuff stops working 00:01:01 <romazoon> oh well, but how was it without internet ? 00:01:05 <chillcore> never saw that one glx 00:01:08 <glx> even worse when internet shuts down in the middle of a game 00:01:09 <romazoon> :P 00:01:24 <chillcore> romazoon .... first two weeks great 00:01:28 <chillcore> no drama 00:01:33 <chillcore> peace and quiet 00:01:47 <chillcore> sleeping at decent hours 00:01:56 <chillcore> I have no cable tv so 00:02:22 <chillcore> then it becomes a bit annoying because you want ot play game that do not work 00:02:52 <glx> worse when it's not a multiplayer game 00:02:57 <chillcore> but I still have my consoles 00:03:02 <chillcore> indeed glx 00:03:15 <glx> that's just silly 00:03:23 <chillcore> I cleaned out my ipad and steam folder 00:03:33 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3B28.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 00:03:38 <chillcore> no work ... delete delete delete 00:03:47 <glx> steam works offline 00:04:04 <chillcore> to the point I almost removed it all and am now replacing my games with console versions 00:04:08 <chillcore> ye it does 00:04:36 *** gnu_jj [~quassel@ipb21b7994.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:04:44 <chillcore> I tried to play drift ... starts ... plays ... no saving shiiiiiiiiiiiiit 00:05:04 <glx> ha yes cloud saving 00:05:11 <chillcore> but some games do work yes 00:05:33 <chillcore> there is not one game that uses cloud no more ... you can disable it in configs 00:05:38 <chillcore> even dota 00:06:05 <chillcore> ^^^ ofcourse does not work ... everything starts and after 10 secs ingame it stops 00:06:48 <chillcore> I think this is a sad evolution 00:06:52 <glx> well you still have openttd then ;) 00:06:58 <chillcore> minecraft worked 00:07:02 <chillcore> and openttd 00:07:05 <romazoon> and it is a sad evolution chill 00:07:23 <romazoon> especially that the reasons behind it at not really legitimate 00:07:37 <glx> it's against piracy 00:07:48 <romazoon> well that s what you think 00:07:50 <chillcore> true ... jsut stop buying them games ;) 00:07:57 *** gnu_jj [~quassel@ipb21b7994.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 00:07:59 <romazoon> or that s what they want you to believe 00:08:05 <glx> but only legitimate users are affected 00:08:17 <chillcore> it takes them a week longer that is all 00:08:21 <chillcore> like you say 00:08:27 <romazoon> but the truth is they gather data on people, and make some more money on players ass 00:09:05 <chillcore> ye even minecraft launchers have facebook and twitter and reddit icons in them 00:09:09 <romazoon> they use the data to see if their game is still used and if an add on is a wise idea in term of business 00:09:18 <chillcore> fuu google analytics even 00:09:39 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:09:51 <romazoon> personal data = goldmine 00:10:11 <chillcore> ye 00:10:24 <chillcore> just fight the power 00:10:41 <romazoon> you heard the price for minecraft ? just insane 00:10:57 <romazoon> 3 billions.... 00:10:59 <chillcore> you mean what Notch received ... 00:11:01 <chillcore> 2.5 00:11:05 <romazoon> even in ottd i don t reach that 00:11:15 <romazoon> :P 00:11:36 <chillcore> I dunno romazoon ... OpenTTD is not commercial 00:11:46 <chillcore> but there are a ton of players 00:12:28 <romazoon> i mean in game, i don t manage to make 2.5 billion (just to say it s insane) 00:12:48 <chillcore> you do not play long enough haha 00:12:57 <chillcore> you continue after 2050? 00:13:01 <romazoon> and i m lying...of course i reached that 00:13:26 <chillcore> I never pay attention to my money 00:13:40 <chillcore> for me it is about the network and such 00:13:51 <chillcore> signals and decoration 00:13:58 <romazoon> but anyway, it s not a valid comparison i know....i was just pretending it s insane, and they have more interest than just the game 00:14:22 <chillcore> prob is that once you know the mechanics is is easy 00:14:53 <chillcore> untill now MS handles it pretty well 00:15:04 <chillcore> they left eula alone 00:15:11 <chillcore> thank god 00:15:31 <chillcore> one thing is sad ... notch did not give us the code as promissed 00:15:39 <chillcore> can't bame him 00:15:50 <chillcore> still sad-ish 00:16:13 <romazoon> i know, nevver cared of money in game too, i love to make huge and fully interconnected$ networks were trains can never get lost and manage to handle the demand created by cargodist 00:16:36 <chillcore> huhu 00:17:14 <chillcore> there are so many ways to play. that is one of the great things 00:17:47 <romazoon> it is indeed... and so addictive it seems ! 00:18:08 <chillcore> that is because we coded coke in it :P 00:18:26 <chillcore> ssssssst 00:18:56 <chillcore> it is even used in unis ... economics clases. at least so I heard 00:19:07 <romazoon> the war free game is not a drug free game :P interesting 00:19:26 <chillcore> free games or 'free' games? 00:19:34 <chillcore> apple changed their labels 00:19:40 <chillcore> no more free but get 00:20:23 <romazoon> free as in excluded (drug free zone) 00:20:23 <chillcore> now we need a law that stops the no refunds abuse 00:20:58 <chillcore> and kickstarter and early access abuse 00:21:15 <romazoon> what s that ? 00:21:17 <chillcore> lot's of genuine projects but also lot's taht are not 00:21:28 <chillcore> early acces you kow right? 00:21:36 <romazoon> oh more clear now with the last sentence 00:21:39 <chillcore> you pay for an alpha and play forever 00:21:52 <chillcore> eg minecraft started at 5 euros and KSP too 00:21:56 <chillcore> you invest 00:22:11 <chillcore> and hope to get a complete game some day 00:22:33 <romazoon> invest ? or you pay to play ? (invest mean getting some $ back at some point) 00:22:39 <chillcore> same with kickstarter, kinda 00:22:50 <chillcore> nono yu pay a low price and the game is yours 00:23:00 <romazoon> but i think i see your point, people buys games early and they don t get finished entirely 00:23:13 <romazoon> so it s an abuse 00:23:19 <chillcore> yep and they do not get their money back 00:23:23 <chillcore> indeed 00:23:44 <chillcore> with kixkstarter the same 00:23:46 <chillcore> kinda 00:24:08 <chillcore> sometimes projects do fail because whatever 00:24:13 <chillcore> it happens 00:24:28 <romazoon> i see this happening with train fever, more or less (they don t even pretended to be an beta though....while it was an alpha really, and they made a release nonetheless and try to fix it still today (6 month after going out, there is a fix every two weeks) 00:24:28 <chillcore> but some are ... grrrrrrrr 00:24:39 <Wolf01> 'night 00:24:43 <chillcore> night 00:24:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:25:31 <chillcore> ye romazoon I do not know about this project ... 00:25:38 <chillcore> be glad they are fixing it 00:25:41 <romazoon> oh it s a game, it s out since 6 month 00:25:48 <chillcore> ye ... 00:25:49 <romazoon> the successor of ttd suposely 00:26:04 <chillcore> OpenTTD has no competition 00:26:06 <romazoon> well not successor, but inspired by 00:26:11 <chillcore> true 00:26:46 <romazoon> it s all in 3d, with some real scale used (wich is insanely not fun to play) 00:26:57 <chillcore> it's like rollercaoster tycoon .... many tried many more failed 00:27:20 <chillcore> maybe Alberth his project some day ... FreeRCT 00:28:19 <chillcore> it's what happened to rollercaoster 3 ... they made it 3D and it was ruined 00:28:24 <LordAro> ! 00:28:25 <chillcore> for me anyway 00:28:32 <romazoon> but they nailed success really, the engine could make for an epic "transport" game...the gameplay is just not much "addictive" right now 00:28:48 <chillcore> hello LorAro 00:28:53 <LordAro> hey chillcore 00:30:49 <romazoon> rollercoaster is a game i never tried, it s funny how i missed it given the time i spent on TTD as a kid, maybe one day i ll give it a shot (so i should try the second if i got you right ) 00:31:40 <chillcore> you should pick it up 00:32:05 <chillcore> first and second with all the expansions 00:32:36 <chillcore> the third is not that bad it is just that it is 3D and the atmosphere changed completely 00:32:55 <chillcore> I missed an expansion and bought it again 00:33:21 <romazoon> ok, thanks 00:33:28 <chillcore> there is this ultimate pack ... 8 games ... I payed 14.95 euros 00:33:31 <chillcore> brand new 00:33:38 <chillcore> crazy 00:34:23 <chillcore> there are many great games ... older ones 00:34:39 <chillcore> ever played Myst? and Oddworld? 00:35:22 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:37:46 <chillcore> oh great they let the reddit trolls out of their cages again :P 00:39:49 *** romazoon [~oftc-webi@233.177.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:52 *** romazoon [~oftc-webi@233.177.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #openttd 00:42:39 <romazoon> i did played Myst, i didn t understood anything (and remember of lags)... 00:43:57 <chillcore> it is not the easiest of puzzles true 00:45:18 <chillcore> most of the times solutions can be found for he who searches ... elsewhere 00:46:08 <romazoon> hahaha good old days with game that made no sense, and people where not asking for a refund ! 00:46:55 <chillcore> depends which good old days 00:47:16 <chillcore> once opened you could hardly get a refund but yu were allowd to sell on 00:47:17 <romazoon> but well i was a good client, i spent hours trying to figure out "kings quest", a click and point adventure with commands to enter 00:47:37 <chillcore> never played that one 00:47:50 <romazoon> and at the time i was not even speaking english ! huahuahua (i had an english version, and still not complaining) 00:49:31 <chillcore> Many of the games here were spoken in our own laguage 00:49:49 <chillcore> not all ofcourse 00:50:21 <chillcore> and they had movie clips with real actors too 00:50:26 <romazoon> well i didn t had that chance ! except TTD :) 00:51:54 <romazoon> of course i don t speak of console games, they were translated in french usually 00:52:24 <romazoon> but PC games, i remember until mid 90's it wasn t common that i could get my hands on french version 00:52:40 <chillcore> I am still looking for TTO for PSX ... nowhere to find and I am not fond of online shoping 00:53:11 <romazoon> simcity, railroads tycoons, civilization I, all those i played in english...before speaking it "fluently" 00:53:47 <romazoon> TTO for PSX, is that the 3d version, isn't it ? 00:53:56 <chillcore> your english is not bad ... must have bbeen all them games :P 00:54:11 <chillcore> yes I think so 00:54:26 <chillcore> could have been TTD that was 3D ... it has been a long time 00:55:12 <chillcore> hmm I started lagging 00:55:15 *** samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-250-207.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:55:24 <chillcore> this things sais so 00:55:26 <romazoon> but on psx, i only heard of one version...and it was the 3d version i believe. but i might be wrong. and i seems to talk to someone who knows much more than me on TtD history 00:56:31 <chillcore> anyhoo 2AM time for a nappie 00:56:56 <chillcore> was nice talking to you romazoon, see you around. 00:57:10 <romazoon> hehe 00:57:11 <romazoon> sure 00:57:18 <romazoon> it was nice, bye and good night 00:57:20 <chillcore> goodnight 00:57:44 <chillcore> there was aversion yes but I do not remember iwhich of the two it was 00:57:53 <chillcore> anyhoo next time ;) 00:57:55 <chillcore> bb 00:58:03 *** chillcore [~chillcore@91.182.36.19] has quit [Quit: Only mortals are affected by fame and power.] 00:59:46 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:06:31 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:26:08 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D962.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:00:06 *** OsteHovel_ [~OsteHovel@140.90-149-87.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 02:04:38 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@90.149.87.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:09:16 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:15:11 *** romazoon 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*** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 04:42:13 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71-8-126-76.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #openttd 04:42:48 *** Diablo-D3 [~diablo@exelion.net] has joined #openttd 04:47:46 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EF3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:51:36 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:b108:bf2d:2973:6b7b] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:07:34 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31:42 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:03 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has joined #openttd 05:37:58 <Diablo-D3> hrm. 05:38:04 <Diablo-D3> that one popular citybuilder mod 05:38:36 <Diablo-D3> it should require coal for the power plant at some point 05:44:20 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> graviton.oftc.net quits: raincomplex, Cursarion, eQualizer, 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07:29:59 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 07:48:20 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 07:57:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:04:36 <andythenorth> o/ 08:04:46 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 08:04:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:08:49 *** DanMacK [~3265a7d8@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 08:09:26 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-174-71.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 08:18:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A192D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:06 <supermop_> yo andy 08:28:51 <roidal> o/ 08:30:10 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:30:46 *** gk [~gk@host217-42-15-105.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:40:43 <Alberth> out secret plot to take over the steel factory production is out! 08:41:57 <andythenorth> ? 08:42:37 *** OsteHovel_ [~OsteHovel@140.90-149-87.nextgentel.com] has quit [] 08:43:56 <Supercheese> our* 08:45:33 <Alberth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1142726#p1142726 08:45:38 <V453000> heyooo 08:46:03 <andythenorth> a bug :) 08:46:08 <andythenorth> or a badly named industry? 08:46:11 <Alberth> yeah, I make lots of stupid little typos these days :( Supercheese 08:46:24 <Alberth> not by the looks of it 08:46:48 <Supercheese> Maybe the ore is both ferriferous and carboniferous 08:47:20 <andythenorth> I can barely type anymore 08:47:33 <andythenorth> must be some kind of global decline :P 08:47:44 <Alberth> lol 08:49:33 <supermop_> so i've been making these fake dieter trams as placeholders for real melbourne trams 08:50:17 <supermop_> but now im tempted to add extra trams that shouldn't be in the melbourne tram set just so i get to draw more variations on these fake trams 08:51:47 <V453000> as soon as realism limits you in any way, it is bad :) 08:52:05 <Alberth> +1 :D 08:52:09 <supermop_> i like how that guy blurred out his company name as if sensitive information 08:52:22 <Alberth> yeah :p 08:52:36 <Alberth> maybe his player name 08:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, limiting yourself is the entire point of a game 08:53:34 <supermop_> the extra trams exist in real life, they are just identical to another class except for manufacturer of the brakes 08:54:15 <supermop_> but adding them lets be turn another coffee grinder into a tram! 08:55:31 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: sure, but realism is not by definition a good limit 08:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but there's still a difference between "not always" and "never" 08:58:29 <andythenorth> eh 08:58:35 * andythenorth offers platitudes 08:58:38 <V453000> OMFG philosophical questions 08:58:42 <andythenorth> choosing to limit by realism is good 08:58:58 <andythenorth> arbitrarily only limiting by realism is not good 08:59:05 <V453000> if supermop is having one tram in his set due to realism, it might be nicer to have 10 trams for variety :P 08:59:33 <V453000> making things roughly believable to create the atmosphere is nice, copying it 1:1 is not 09:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, i have not understood supermop_'s approach enough to judge that 09:07:51 <V453000> dyin 09:07:53 <V453000> g 09:09:20 <Supercheese> Hurray for easy-to-implement feature requests 09:11:08 *** DanMacK [~3265a7d8@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:11:09 <supermop_> well ill model and render for now 09:11:44 <roidal> from when is 'days_in_transit' of a CargoPacket counted on? 09:12:09 <roidal> at the moment of creation, or is it the time being loaded into a vehicle? 09:12:22 <Supercheese> pretty sure it's on loaded 09:13:11 <roidal> so there is no penalty in payment for long waiting cargo at stations? 09:13:42 <Supercheese> I do believe that is the case 09:13:47 <roidal> ok, thx 09:14:03 <Supercheese> other than the station rating being too low and the cargo disappearing 09:14:14 *** Pol 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[~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54faa7-102.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:28:09 <roidal> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/vehicle.cpp?rev=27151#L905 09:28:11 <roidal> hm 09:28:26 *** JGR [~JGR@host86-135-49-246.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:29:45 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 09:35:05 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.dihedral-server.de] has joined #openttd 09:35:41 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #openttd 09:39:54 *** Diablo-D3 [~diablo@exelion.net] has joined #openttd 09:51:50 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@2602:ffea:1:73b::8c23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:38 *** theholyduck [~theholydu@2602:ffea:1:73b::8c23] has joined #openttd 10:00:11 <andythenorth> hmm 10:00:19 <andythenorth> reduce() is gone in python 3 maybe 10:04:06 <Alberth> what does it do? 10:04:52 <Alberth> some functional stuff got moved to packages iirc 10:04:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D962.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:06:02 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: https://docs.python.org/3.3/library/functools.html#functools.reduce 10:06:07 <andythenorth> yeah 10:06:14 <andythenorth> wondering if I should use that, or try and write a for loop 10:06:26 <andythenorth> years = sorted(reduce(set.union, [(variant.intro_date, variant.end_date) for variant in self.model_variants], set())) 10:06:29 <andythenorth> dunno what that does 10:06:56 <Alberth> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13638898/how-to-use-filter-map-and-reduce-in-python-3-3-0 10:06:56 <Alberth> "Removed reduce(). Use functools.reduce() if you really need it; however, 99 percent of the time an explicit for loop is more readable." 10:07:13 <Xaroth|Work> it calls set.union on the generated list 10:08:01 <Alberth> sorted(set([...])) 10:08:50 * andythenorth tests 10:09:45 <Alberth> depending on what you do with years, it might need an extra list( sorted(...) ) 10:12:48 * andythenorth experiments 10:13:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:14:07 <Wolf01> o/ 10:27:23 <Alberth> moin 10:38:38 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 10:39:36 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:49:24 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@46.246.119.109] has joined #openttd 10:52:48 *** roidal_ [~roland@62-46-138-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 10:57:31 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-174-71.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:08:28 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has joined #openttd 11:15:44 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387ac86.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:23:41 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 11:51:09 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:e1e3:89a3:4edd:e9c1] has joined #openttd 12:10:53 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:12:29 *** supermop_ [~supermop@d110-33-170-165.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:17:16 <andythenorth> oops 12:17:21 * andythenorth is in habit of ctrl-d for python 12:17:27 <andythenorth> but that also kills my shell 12:17:31 <andythenorth> :P 12:17:38 <andythenorth> donât press it at wrong time 12:20:58 <andythenorth> hmm 12:21:16 <Alberth> don't use python interactively :) 12:21:27 <andythenorth> I try not to :) 12:21:32 <andythenorth> except to learn things 12:21:43 <andythenorth> unrelated; I have these clunky args for make, like âNO_MP=Falseâ and âCOMPILE_FASTER=Trueâ 12:21:53 <andythenorth> should they be âoptions of some kind? 12:22:02 <andythenorth> or does that likely conflict with make options? 12:22:13 <andythenorth> they look stupid when I type them 12:23:24 <Alberth> -D X=Y iirc, but that doesn;t help a lot 12:23:30 <Alberth> s/;/'/ 12:24:25 <Alberth> you can set them with a default value in the makefile 12:24:28 <andythenorth> yes 12:24:36 <andythenorth> I think they are already, maybe 12:24:37 <andythenorth> maybe I should just make them look less stupid 12:24:38 <Alberth> so you only need to type them when they are changed 12:24:47 <andythenorth> shorter names 12:24:51 <andythenorth> no double negative :P 12:25:18 <Alberth> hide them in a script :) 12:25:27 <andythenorth> make faster 12:25:40 <andythenorth> make only_a_bit_faster 12:25:47 <Alberth> that would be feasible too 12:26:02 <andythenorth> make without_mp_so_python_doesnât_crash_on_error 12:26:27 <Alberth> yeah, but you have to type the target every time 12:26:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00be6c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:26:36 <andythenorth> and no autocomplete 12:26:55 <Alberth> ./make_faster shell script ? 12:27:43 <Alberth> I often have a ./mk script with all defaults 12:28:46 <andythenorth> shell script with - options? o_O 12:29:14 * andythenorth ponders 12:29:18 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EF3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:29:31 <andythenorth> probably overengineered for the case :) 12:30:40 <Alberth> just make a few more scripts, with 4 scripts you have every option you ever dreamed about :p 12:31:48 <Alberth> not not often used cases are probably better handled as Makefile targets 12:31:56 <Alberth> s/^not/but/ 12:32:36 <andythenorth> thanks 12:32:44 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest5518 12:32:49 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:55 <Alberth> keep your build logic at one place, eg in the Makefile 12:35:57 <andythenorth> ok after 2 hours of hunting an unrelated bug, I am looking at this reduce() thing again 12:38:01 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:38:34 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:43 *** Guest5518 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:57 *** chillcore [~chillcore@91.182.36.19] has joined #openttd 12:39:13 <chillcore> hello al 12:40:56 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 12:41:12 <Alberth> hi hi 12:41:22 <andythenorth> hmm 12:41:31 <chillcore> going to polish some more ... is there still some other known in MHL prob besides terrain presets not looking good? 12:41:38 <chillcore> hello Alberth 12:42:21 <Alberth> /me gives wax and a new cloth to chillcore 12:42:30 *** Romazoon [~oftc-webi@233.177.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #openttd 12:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause> do you also czech? 12:42:45 <Romazoon> hi 12:42:50 <chillcore> I will go over all commits int a little bit 12:42:54 * andythenorth wishes he could hold datastructures in his head 12:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause> trees drive you crazy :p 12:43:38 * chillcore accepts wax and new cloth from Alberth but would kindly would request second cloth 12:43:56 <chillcore> shining with dirty cloth does not work very well ;) 12:44:22 <Alberth> /me gives a shelf full of new cloth 12:44:38 <chillcore> damned typing ... so much better in forums 12:45:14 * chillcore goes WOOT shelf and all ... 12:46:11 <chillcore> trees eddi ... what do you men exactly? too many or ... 12:46:50 <chillcore> sometimes they generate slow I do not know why 12:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: navigating and following algorithms that go through large trees 12:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> tree (data structure) 12:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> not tree (plant) 12:47:11 *** Romazoon [~oftc-webi@233.177.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:13 <chillcore> ah yes ... feel free to ... 12:47:26 <chillcore> in my head I still do BASIC :P 12:47:39 <chillcore> kinda 12:48:08 <Alberth> no recursive data structures in basic? 12:48:35 <chillcore> hmm I alwayds avoided the topics about pointers and such 12:48:40 <chillcore> they confuse me 12:49:25 <chillcore> like how you do guis ... I would love to be able to do that but ... 12:49:31 <chillcore> getting there though 12:49:34 <Alberth> it's just like a piece of paper with an address to go to, on it 12:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> tree algorthisms are often laid out so they describe the process that happens on each node. and then dive either into the parent or children and come back with magic values 12:50:20 <chillcore> I know ... alberth ... I really should sit down one day and take a good practise at it 12:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> pointers for trees/lists are not that bad. it gets crazy when you do pointer arithmetics 12:51:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but BASIC probably couldn't do that 12:51:12 <Alberth> yeah, like recursion, you don't think in terms of overall structure, you just handle one single node, without caring where things point to 12:51:30 <chillcore> I see Eddi ... if you are refering to querying the values by query box ... I put that into seperate functions for the hotkeys later 12:51:49 <chillcore> alhtough I could simulate a button click maybe 12:52:06 <chillcore> which I will have to for scriptts/AIs 12:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i don't know what you're talking about 12:52:17 <chillcore> not there yet 12:52:33 <chillcore> keep it like that eddi :P 12:52:43 <chillcore> I mean np ofcourse 12:54:08 <chillcore> Alberth ye that is the thing ... not thinking enough in modern languages yet 12:54:53 <chillcore> I started reading another book but I am at chapter 8 only ... this time skipping nothing 12:55:07 <chillcore> then MHL happened 12:55:24 <chillcore> during my off time I mean 12:55:43 <chillcore> s off/no internet 12:55:59 <Alberth> language isn't that important, it's a mental step that you can safely ignore everything around the node 12:56:18 <Alberth> or around the function, in case of recursion 12:56:38 <chillcore> ok ... 12:56:57 <Alberth> you can make a recursive function? 12:57:15 <chillcore> for loop and such? 12:57:25 <chillcore> if I have to yes 12:57:25 <Alberth> no, a function calling itself 12:57:51 <chillcore> never tried that untill now .. but saying it like that ye I know about it 12:58:55 <Alberth> knowing and writing are very different things :) 12:59:00 <chillcore> indeed 12:59:32 *** Romazoon [~oftc-webi@233.177.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #openttd 12:59:45 <Alberth> if you are wondering about making one, sum(N) of factorial(N) are simple ones 13:00:40 <chillcore> ah ok 13:00:41 <Alberth> or difficult ones, as you are immediately confronted with recursion 13:00:51 <Alberth> no way around it :) 13:01:37 <chillcore> I have this tendency to jump in on the deep end and see if I float 13:02:16 <chillcore> what you talk about is on the other end I guess 13:02:36 <Romazoon> is there a relatively up to date known bug list for Iron horse 1.5.0? ( box car have zero capacity when refitted to mail in a game i just launched ) 13:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: bugs go to the devzone 13:03:35 <Alberth> Romazoon: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse 13:03:57 <Romazoon> thanks for the headers, i lll report it asap 13:04:22 <Alberth> chillcore: yep, with small examples, it's easier to get the core idea, less noise from unrelated parts 13:06:11 <chillcore> I'll have a play around once I get these pacthes working properly 13:06:51 <chillcore> not putting time pressure on myself but ... 1.5 is nearing and there is much to check 13:07:00 <chillcore> for forgotten parts 13:07:15 <chillcore> or parts that are not adjusted while bumping 13:07:39 <chillcore> not that ic111 did this on purpose but he rushes a bit most of the times 13:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: if you want "the deep end" of tree algorithms, you study compiler construction :p 13:08:50 <chillcore> hehe ye eddi ... maybe in a few years 13:09:04 <chillcore> then again is one more needed? 13:09:12 <Alberth> always :p 13:09:36 <chillcore> hihi 13:10:12 <Alberth> compilers come in many forms, not only things that are called 'compiler' 13:10:34 <chillcore> I see 13:10:55 <Alberth> ie your BASIC interpreter is also a compiler 13:11:13 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:11:39 <Alberth> and mostly theoretical, openttd is also a compiler, it translates realtime user input to displayed pictures :p 13:11:53 <Alberth> ie basically any program that takes input and produces output :p 13:11:56 <chillcore> ah just like Java VM executes Java 13:12:03 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1142743#p1142743 <- somone has a broken compose key :p 13:12:45 <Alberth> chillcore: yes, and the Java byte code generator on top of it 13:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that took me a few tries :p 13:14:11 <Alberth> grfcodec also counts as compiler, and nml of course 13:15:05 <chillcore> frosh: tt-forums ... I thought it was a safe haven form the idiots over at steam ... I was wrong 13:15:14 <chillcore> from* 13:15:27 <frosch123> it's still the internet 13:15:29 *** blathijs [matthijs@tika.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 13:15:35 <chillcore> ye 13:15:35 <frosch123> though no idea why you would go to steam 13:15:44 <chillcore> play games 13:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing is ever safe 13:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 10 years ago it was leetspeek 13:16:31 <Eddi|zuHause> all the kiddies did it. 13:16:46 <frosch123> do you imply V is older than 10? 13:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> physically or mentally? :p 13:17:21 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:17:24 <chillcore> N0 1375 n07 90 7h3r3 eddi 13:17:27 <chillcore> lol 13:17:46 <chillcore> stupid indeed 13:18:19 <chillcore> <i never even bothered trying to read it 13:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause> there were also dialects of it, the one which more relies on numbers, and the one which more relies on /\| 13:19:22 <chillcore> ye ... there was this progamming language too ... forgot name 13:19:59 <chillcore> basically you assigned other names to keywords 13:20:43 <Eddi|zuHause> exchanging keywords is the easiest part of compiler construction :p 13:20:52 <chillcore> hehe 13:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> for my professor's professor, they once translated a language to swabian :p 13:21:49 <chillcore> that must have been fun to work with 13:22:55 <chillcore> I once toyed with the idea of making the pc understand spoken language to program with but quickly abandoned 13:23:08 <chillcore> it was still the very early stages of voice recognition 13:23:51 <chillcore> that and well you need to pronounce it everytime in exactly in the same fashion 13:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause> spoken language has two main problems: 1) it's extremely bloated, lots of redundancies, 2) it's often ambiguous 13:24:23 <chillcore> hmm going back and adding stuffs to sentences ... bad while chatting 13:24:34 <chillcore> yes 13:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause> loads of language designers fell into the trap of "if making the language more natural, programming gets easier" 13:25:29 <chillcore> also correcting things ... no idea how to do that sanely 13:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause> just look at COBOL 13:25:57 <chillcore> I read abook about it never used it so ... 13:26:07 <chillcore> my brother does COBOL 13:26:22 <chillcore> unless they changed at Colruyt 13:27:08 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:27:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 13:27:16 <chillcore> we don't talk much about work in the family ... just how's it going or found a new job yet? 13:28:50 <chillcore> any experts on Firefox here? 13:29:12 <chillcore> I want to make a public PC safe for multiple users somehow 13:29:20 <chillcore> in and idiot proof way 13:29:43 <chillcore> prob is that they keep changing stuffs and enabling things they should not 13:30:06 <chillcore> so that the next user has no access to the previous his data/cookies 13:30:36 <chillcore> prob is where it is at they are not aware and they do not reboot browser nor pc between session 13:30:44 <planetmaker> hello 13:30:54 <chillcore> o/ planetmaker 13:31:29 <chillcore> I huess I will need to educate them ... not hte users but the place where it is 13:32:00 <chillcore> many many many public places belonging to the same institution 13:32:09 <chillcore> all over the country 13:32:26 <chillcore> wait I found a job ... 13:32:36 <chillcore> now convince them to pay me ... 13:32:39 <chillcore> :P 13:33:20 <chillcore> the last time I checked they had a virus 13:33:34 <chillcore> I delete cookies and this one site puts it right back 13:33:43 <chillcore> I disable cokies and it keeps doing it 13:33:56 <Alberth> use a linux or a windows system with different user accounts 13:34:10 <Alberth> hi hi planetmaker 13:34:13 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-103-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:19 <chillcore> that is exactly the prob Alberth 13:35:00 <chillcore> on boot it resets to satndard setting and ask your name ... you enter whatever so they can monitor you somewhat 13:35:15 <chillcore> but between users they do not boot 13:35:43 <chillcore> granted they have no access to USB or CD but who needs that while online 13:36:04 <Alberth> why would need to boot? just logout 13:36:22 <chillcore> hmm ... forced logout 13:36:36 <chillcore> that is an idea ... 13:37:04 <chillcore> and forbid FB and the likes ... 13:37:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: so which is more readable? o_O Guido thinks the new one, approximately https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pswphv1ib 13:38:51 <chillcore> ye I'll see if I can make them do that ... sessions of 15 minutes or so and it logs out automatically 13:39:11 <chillcore> these PCs are meant for people wh have no internet at home and can not afford it 13:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: depends on how fluent you are in functional programming 13:39:31 <andythenorth> not 13:39:38 <andythenorth> no Lisp, no Haskell 13:39:47 <andythenorth> no Erlang 13:39:52 <andythenorth> no Scheme 13:39:59 <chillcore> anyhoo thx for the hint Alberth, I'll fist have to convince them there is a serious privacy issue at hand 13:40:08 <chillcore> then take it from there 13:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> reduce is often stretching it a bit 13:40:26 <andythenorth> I read a long essay the other day that OO, imperative programming and iterators are killing us 13:40:43 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:46 <andythenorth> and that we should embrace functional programming and immutable state 13:40:55 <Eddi|zuHause> loads of things are killing us... 13:41:01 <andythenorth> it was all very appealing until I tried to understand the examples 13:41:02 <chillcore> The biggest prob is that when you speak about that they look at you like you are some kind of madman alberth 13:41:28 <chillcore> even highly educated peeps 13:42:03 <Alberth> very few people understand it :( 13:42:10 *** quorzom [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 13:42:18 <chillcore> when I see a PC with the password stickered to it my hair in the back of my neck stannds up 13:42:21 <chillcore> sadly enough 13:42:41 *** TELK [~oftc-webi@61.101.44.235] has joined #openttd 13:42:42 <chillcore> the other day I said something about that and the reaction was ... oh but that is not my pc 13:42:59 <chillcore> still it contains very sensitive data 13:43:05 <TELK> Hello, is there any way to show non-english in dedicated server command(console) window? 13:43:15 <chillcore> social security , medical , whatever you can think of 13:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause> TELK: no 13:43:25 <TELK> Thanks 13:43:33 <Alberth> quite chillcore 13:43:35 <chillcore> those are not the public pcs bythe way ... thank god 13:43:52 <TELK> oh, I see you chillcre :) 13:44:12 <chillcore> hello TELK, have we met before? 13:44:18 <TELK> many korean uses your branches 13:44:31 <chillcore> your nick does not ring a bell 13:44:41 <TELK> You are famous in korean ottd users 13:44:44 <chillcore> ah like that ... 13:45:02 <chillcore> WOOT 13:45:29 * chillcore checks bank account 13:45:33 <chillcore> nope empty 13:45:35 <Alberth> andythenorth: made more new thingies https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p0bkppph9 13:45:38 <chillcore> just kidding ;) 13:45:39 <TELK> lol 13:45:46 <chillcore> but it is empty ... 13:46:19 <chillcore> I am happy to hear that I reach that far ..; and famous no less 13:46:24 * chillcore blushes 13:46:28 <andythenorth> Alberth: no set? o_O 13:46:46 <Alberth> hmm, good point 13:46:47 <TELK> It was very nice to meet you, chillcore :) 13:46:56 <chillcore> tell em I said hello ;) TELK 13:47:00 <chillcore> likewise 13:47:25 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pnnxdykq8 set-ted 13:47:27 <TELK> byebye and thanks for answer Eddi 13:47:49 *** TELK [~oftc-webi@61.101.44.235] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:49:25 <andythenorth> puts out a list of tuples now, instead of a list of ints ;) 13:49:35 <andythenorth> the union() fixes that 13:50:30 <chillcore> that was ... unexpected 13:50:43 <Alberth> you just need all years, no matter if entry or exit date? 13:50:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the internet, what can you really expect? 13:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that's just the korean way of saying "thanks for your patchpack, lots of people i know use it" 13:52:11 <chillcore> ye maybe ... very kind though 13:53:09 <chillcore> ego goes throug the roof ... feet still touching ground ? check 13:53:12 <chillcore> :P 13:54:09 <andythenorth> Alberth: yes, it ends up generating simple lists like 13:54:10 <andythenorth> [0, 2010, 5000001] 13:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i've got this alarm clock 13:54:17 <frosch123> chillcore: TELK runs the korean forums 13:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that goes "miau" at completely random intervals 13:54:57 <andythenorth> :) 13:55:18 <chillcore> ok Alberth ..;. equivalent to tt-forums fame, not national tv fame :P 13:55:36 <chillcore> I'd better do some coding 13:56:02 <chillcore> else not much is going to happen today .. 13:57:55 <chillcore> must be fun Eddi ... my little buddy left me a portal gun in minecraft ... I thought I was alone 13:58:18 <chillcore> then this thing starts talking and I almost peed myself 13:58:26 <chillcore> sound was way up 13:58:51 <Alberth> andythenorth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjsb52s6w this seems the simplest solution 13:59:24 <andythenorth> because union() is infrequently used and has to be looked up, and has to be fed a list comprehension? o_O 13:59:36 <Alberth> no idea how to do what you want in a single line, although it sounds like something you might want to do 13:59:54 <andythenorth> nah 13:59:59 <andythenorth> loop 14:00:06 <andythenorth> this isnât a place for golf 14:00:13 <chillcore> oh tgen bugreports coming in ... yay 14:00:20 <Alberth> hmm, update, probably 14:00:58 <Alberth> ah, yes years.update(variant.intro_date, variant.end_date) 14:01:57 <Alberth> x = x.union(y) <--> x.update(y) 14:03:39 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p4FD6EF3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:04:38 <andythenorth> update does seem better here 14:04:42 <andythenorth> no new set returned 14:07:37 <andythenorth> years.update((variant.intro_date, variant.end_date)) 14:08:39 <Alberth> ah, no multiple arguments I guess 14:09:14 <andythenorth> seems to accept an iterable as first arg 14:09:47 <andythenorth> anyway, works thanks 14:11:41 *** samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-90-250-207.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 14:22:44 <andythenorth> ho 14:22:54 <andythenorth> pyflakes hates pixa 14:23:16 <samu> hi 14:23:33 <andythenorth> from pixa import * 14:23:38 <andythenorth> is verboten 14:23:48 <chillcore> darn this is going to be one of them hard to fix pacthes ... can not reproduce 14:23:59 <chillcore> either windos or newgrf related 14:24:47 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 14:25:04 <andythenorth> hmm 14:25:10 <andythenorth> I have a module, with no test cases 14:25:22 <chillcore> could be newgrf as I have not yet adjusted the API to the new setting .. which is the same but not 14:25:26 <andythenorth> and to make it valid python 3, I think I have to break the API 14:26:37 <chillcore> hehe andy ... you fix mine and I fix yours? ... but honestly I stink at newgrf related stuffs 14:26:43 <andythenorth> this is pure python 14:26:54 <chillcore> then I smeel even worse ;) 14:27:02 <chillcore> s smeel/smell 14:27:18 <andythenorth> I canât face it right now :P 14:29:47 <chillcore> I know the feeling andy 14:31:12 <chillcore> question ... when changing API widgets but not the setting behind it, except for adding custom ... Do I need to adjust something else? 14:31:20 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has left #openttd [Leaving] 14:31:46 <frosch123> gs/ai api? 14:31:52 <chillcore> both 14:32:00 <chillcore> smoothness puldown 14:32:01 <frosch123> there is a script to generate those files 14:32:21 <chillcore> ok ... 14:33:06 <frosch123> generare_widget.sh and squirrel_export.sh 14:33:12 <chillcore> WID_GL_SMOOTHNESS_PULLDOWN became WID_TGEN_SMOOTHNESS_PRESETS_PULLDOWN 14:33:39 <chillcore> and I execute them frm console the same location as compiling yes? 14:33:56 <frosch123> there is no compatbiilty layer in the script widget api, it is supposed to only work as long as windows do not change 14:34:10 <frosch123> since there is no way to make it compatible anyway 14:34:33 <frosch123> i think you run the sripts from the folder they are in 14:34:36 <frosch123> src/script/api 14:34:41 <chillcore> besides changing the widget name it moved gui 14:35:16 <chillcore> I'll give it a go ... I have my backup on forum 14:38:30 <chillcore> generate_widget.sh? sounds like the right one 14:39:49 <chillcore> yep that was it ... thank you frosch ... I would never have found that 14:40:28 <chillcore> but but it seems you forgot to do it yourself in trunk ... 14:40:41 <chillcore> I see WID_GO_GUI_ZOOM_DROPDOWN 14:41:09 <chillcore> ^^^ inside my newly created patch 14:42:20 <chillcore> or maybe it is not needed in trunk ... i dunno 14:43:32 <chillcore> you == someone or the compiler 14:46:06 <chillcore> either way I am glad I did not have to type all that manually 14:48:44 <frosch123> likely it got forgotten in trunk :) 14:49:15 <frosch123> we cannot run it automatically on build, due to inferior operating systems 14:50:07 <chillcore> I sees 14:51:08 <chillcore> I left it as a seperate patch so it is just a matter of deleting patch and running script again 14:53:08 <samu> https://rupavq.dm2304.livefilestore.com/y2pSjlHSaGrlVDCPnvmj4yNKzkxOnIHC9pIATkX2VZKCOID21_1vLNHHpGSbHG-r2Fx6D9oJM3AhqkvNMfQGFz2tiIQUu9vElYFP7mVO5nq5E-WpG4d_O16D_uwVUTCyF4fmQj0o09dm-aU5tmsepLP8w/Farford%20Transport%2C%202041-01-12.png?psid=1 14:53:31 <samu> need opinion 14:54:55 <chillcore> it is too cold for my taste <- opinion 14:55:06 <chillcore> context samu? 14:56:03 <samu> ah, right 14:56:06 <Alberth> except for the block at the lower left, it doesn't make much sense to have such large tracks 14:56:13 <samu> costs for water 14:56:17 <samu> canal 14:56:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27152 /trunk (3 files in 3 dirs) (2015-02-15 14:56:21 UTC) 14:56:28 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Generated files. 14:56:42 <samu> all others are default prices, canal prices are being edited 15:03:31 <chillcore> thank you frosch for the quick fix ... again ;) 15:03:42 <samu> I was thinking 15:03:54 <samu> raise maintenance costs for canal 15:04:00 <samu> but lower cost for building it 15:04:43 <samu> how much lower? that is the question 15:06:01 <samu> build price is at 1/8 of default costs 15:07:32 *** liq4 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:07:43 <samu> 1/1 = 5000, 1/2 = 2500, 1/4 = 1250, 1/8 = 625 15:08:30 <chillcore> hmm ... play test samu and see if you can survive early games at all 15:08:38 <chillcore> or make it configurable 15:08:58 <Alberth> it is configurable with a basecost newgrf 15:09:07 <chillcore> it should be yes ... 15:09:08 <samu> im using the basecost 15:09:10 <samu> yes 15:26:06 <samu> gonna try super imba godly hard settings 15:29:20 <chillcore> k. new version out the door ... where was I ... dissapearing tilebar when dragged while shaded. 15:30:29 <andythenorth> hurgh 15:30:38 <andythenorth> why am I converting to python 3 anyway? o_O 15:30:49 <Taede> future-proofing? 15:30:58 <andythenorth> faster nmlc 15:31:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A192D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:31:13 <chillcore> only my gui so that is good 15:33:03 <samu> lol im dead already 15:37:58 <samu> woah, can only build 3 ships with a max loan of 100k 15:38:41 <andythenorth> NO_MP=False 15:38:45 <andythenorth> MP=1 ? 15:38:49 <andythenorth> better, more terse? 15:39:02 <andythenorth> MP=16, and pass that to the number of pool threads? 15:39:38 * andythenorth trying to remove the gak from the developer interface 15:41:54 <andythenorth> JOBS=16? 15:41:58 <andythenorth> POOL=15? 15:43:03 <andythenorth> this is a python MP pool, *not* the GNU make jobs pool 15:45:51 * chillcore sings "Another bug bites the dust tjsaaaah dun dun dun" 15:46:28 <chillcore> if (this->IsShaded()) return; where did I steal that and why ... 15:46:35 <chillcore> beats me 15:53:22 <samu> maintenance costs need to be higher, but not that much higher after all 15:53:47 <samu> about double or 4x the current 15:54:41 <samu> else ship running costs + construction cost + property maintenance will be higher than ship income 15:55:21 <samu> + loan interest also 15:55:26 <samu> forgot about that 15:59:07 <andythenorth> hmm 15:59:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe pass make's -j parameter onto python? 15:59:34 <andythenorth> itâs a good suggestion 15:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that can be done 16:02:36 *** ard_ [~oftc-webi@89.137.134.61] has joined #openttd 16:02:49 <ard_> Helloo!! 16:02:54 <ard_> Can some1 help me? 16:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> not like this. 16:04:05 *** LadyHawk- [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 16:04:26 <ard_> Can you help me telling me how to play with AI?? 16:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> what have you tried so far? 16:05:54 * andythenorth wonders if 1 worker thread is too conservative by default :P 16:05:59 <andythenorth> 16 is rude 16:07:33 <andythenorth> also COMPILE_FASTER (unrelated to use of worker thread pool) is a stupid arg name 16:08:06 <andythenorth> it strictly enables partial compiles by only recompiling changed vehicles 16:08:12 <ard_> no cab and much more AI and does nothing 16:08:18 <andythenorth> pc=True? 16:08:30 <andythenorth> pc=y? 16:08:32 <andythenorth> pc=on? 16:08:42 * andythenorth is unfamiliar with conventional interfaces to this stuff 16:09:36 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:37 *** LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk 16:10:31 <ard_> Some1 tell how to play with AI and works good and do something 16:12:17 <lobster> well, to be fairly honest people will need some more info first 16:12:45 <lobster> what version are you running? which AI are you trying to get working? did you follow the installation guide? 16:12:55 <lobster> and does it give you some sort of error? 16:12:59 <lobster> that kinda stuff 16:14:37 <ard_> yeah 16:14:40 <ard_> Crash 16:15:14 <ard_> and i heave 1.4.4 version 16:18:23 <planetmaker> ard_: you always get more info than 'crash'. And 'AI' 16:18:23 <ard_> i heave donwload 6 AI and no1 works 16:18:50 <planetmaker> what crashes? OpenTTD or the AIs? 16:19:02 <ard_> ais 16:20:00 <planetmaker> did you use ingame content download to obtain them? 16:20:02 <planetmaker> and which? 16:20:10 <ard_> yes 16:20:18 <ard_> ingame 16:20:53 <ard_> Nocab 16:21:02 <ard_> terron 16:23:39 <chillcore> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p3tjchjgu 16:24:14 <chillcore> one more for the gui gods ... alignment in _nested_create_scenario_widgets[] 16:26:18 <Alberth> ... 16:26:44 <ard_> ???? 16:28:42 <Alberth> ard_: you can have a look in the thread of an ai, to check if it is reported and/or fixed already 16:29:09 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs <-- has links 16:30:36 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:39:56 <Alberth> haha chillcore :) 16:42:53 <chillcore> ? Alberth 16:43:01 <chillcore> sorry was absent for a sec 16:43:22 *** ard_ [~oftc-webi@89.137.134.61] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:43:41 <chillcore> s absent/not here <- spelling :P 16:44:11 <Alberth> your paste with the looooong line 16:44:21 <chillcore> ah ok 16:44:33 <chillcore> happens ... to me too 16:45:13 <chillcore> there are guis where it is aligned like that and most likely got copied from there 16:45:14 <Alberth> one of the few cases where non-wrapping editors are useful 16:45:20 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 16:45:30 <chillcore> gedit 16:46:50 <chillcore> I should fix em all when encounterd, 16:46:52 <Alberth> I mostly get annoyed with any editor that doesn't act like vi/vim :) 16:47:20 <Alberth> I guess I am too much attached to it :) 16:47:38 <chillcore> yeah usually I go for notepad++ but this gedit is pretty much the same 16:48:03 <Alberth> in the KDE world, there is kate and kwrite 16:49:05 <chillcore> I have too many choice too mention ... kinda anoying that different types of files open different editors 16:49:16 <chillcore> had to change with "open with ..." 16:49:27 <Alberth> change your preferences :) 16:50:01 <chillcore> for .ini, .h and cpp ... not that they are bad but i prefer in one gui 16:50:03 <chillcore> I did 16:51:06 <Alberth> yep, I even have different configurations for files in different projects :) 16:51:17 * LordAro regularly tries to :wq in gedit 16:51:22 <LordAro> or notepad++ 16:51:44 <Alberth> not ESC? :) 16:52:20 <chillcore> ye that is anoying ... one of them in settings.ini two of theses ' makes half the page be pink text 16:52:39 <chillcore> ' thes in the comments that is 16:52:50 <Alberth> :set color=none :) 16:53:21 <chillcore> syntax highlighting is usefull ... fixed it in the meantime 16:54:08 <chillcore> it helps to see structure in the files 16:54:27 <samu> canal maintenance: 4x default - looks fine, very tight for a first transportation route in very hard settings 16:54:50 <samu> canal cost: 1/8 default 16:55:10 <Alberth> you don't want to start with canal building as first route 16:55:17 <chillcore> but if I see more of them lines should they all be fixed? there are more and I'll do them when encounterd close by... Alberth 16:55:41 <Alberth> chillcore: hmm, tough one 16:56:08 <samu> i'm comparing the same route vs rail and vs road 16:56:32 <samu> construction costs were similar to rail, road was cheapest 16:57:26 <samu> const costs: 49650 vs 45288 vs 23856 16:58:22 <samu> new vehicles: 36562 vs 32339 vs 73084 16:58:39 <samu> 1 ship, 1 train, 11 trucks 17:00:00 <samu> running costs: 4320 vs 3249 vs 7062 17:00:31 <samu> maintenance costs: 2730 vs 2189 vs 419 17:01:15 <chillcore> Alberth: ye ... then again you did break all of our patches too long time ago ... every single on in existance 17:01:20 <chillcore> :P 17:01:29 <chillcore> we can tackle this later maybe 17:01:59 <Alberth> just collect them, and we'll see 17:02:15 <Alberth> work in the newworld gen window isn't done yet :) 17:02:29 <chillcore> indeedeleedom 17:02:30 <samu> income on the first year: 16934 vs 20463 vs 30431 17:03:34 <chillcore> I got 5-ish patches/fixxes left to do 17:03:52 <chillcore> but for everyone I solve 2 emerge so make that 20-ish fixes 17:04:23 <samu> profit graph is lowest for ship, but considering the first route was all canal only 17:04:32 <samu> I think i am satisfied 17:04:41 <chillcore> there are more but those are adons/improvement in functionality 17:04:55 <chillcore> eg sliders 17:05:07 <chillcore> useful but not needed perse 17:06:15 <samu> it can profit :) that's all that I cared to do 17:06:16 <Alberth> samu: costs should be more varied imho 17:06:41 <samu> tell me 17:06:53 <Alberth> a player should make a smart choice how to transport cargo, if you make it all the same, you eliminate that need 17:08:05 <Alberth> that's also why there are more than one train, for example, you should think which one to use at what place 17:08:26 <Alberth> otherwise, you can have just one train for everything 17:08:46 <samu> this train is size 6 17:08:52 <samu> forgot to mention 17:11:03 <samu> for this test I was only trying to see if it was even possible to start a all-canal route with only 100k loan 17:12:36 <samu> it is, but it's not really getting you loads of cash 17:12:46 *** gk [~gk@host217-42-8-82.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: you can try to make ships more profitable by increasing the cargo aging interval 17:14:02 <Eddi|zuHause> if you double the interval, a ship will make as much money as a train twice the speed 17:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if you feel fancy, you can do this only for "non-perishable" cargos (coal, steel, ...) 17:16:21 <samu> ships last 30 years 17:16:55 <samu> i'm okay that they profit half than a train 17:17:51 <samu> it's not exactly how much they profit that worries me, but the building / maintenance costs in relation to profit 17:19:55 <samu> year 1951 profit: 6468 vs 14495 vs 21677 17:20:04 <samu> ship lowest, trucks highest 17:21:05 <Alberth> ships should be high volume transport imho 17:21:58 <Alberth> insane high construction costs, and small profits, so you need all those years to get your investment back 17:22:39 <samu> well, yeah, as you said, not best to start with ships and canal 17:22:52 <samu> i could start with ships without needing to build any canal tile 17:23:03 <samu> but i was doing the extreme here 17:23:09 <samu> see if it was possible 17:24:52 <V453000> cause openttd is only about making money :) 17:25:56 <roidal_> maybe someone can explain me the operating profit graph? 17:27:00 <roidal_> even if i have a year with negativ income the graph stays above 0 17:29:32 <roidal_> negativ win* 17:29:36 <roidal_> or loss 17:29:38 <roidal_> :D 17:32:52 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@blfd-5d8215a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:32:58 <samu> trying to make my 2nd ship 17:33:04 <samu> going the same route 17:33:11 <samu> i'm 2k short 17:36:02 *** roidal_ is now known as roidal 17:38:04 <roidal> i think thats a bug 17:40:08 <samu> 2 ships, 3 trains, 23 road vehicles, though I build 24, 1 died to a ufo colision 17:40:23 <samu> gonna wait for year 1955 17:42:28 <samu> hmm 23 trucks is excessive for this route, must expand stations 17:44:14 <Taede> roidal, which graph are you looking at? if it is income, it can only be => 0, as that counts only the income vehicles get. expenses (running cost, maintenance cost etc) do not count for that graph (iirc) 17:44:29 <Taede> i think you want the 'operating profit' graph 17:45:00 <roidal> Taede: yes, i mean the 'operating profit' 17:45:05 <roidal> but it seems to be broken in 1.4.4. 17:45:15 <Taede> screenshot? 17:45:32 <roidal> will make one 17:45:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27153 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2015-02-15 17:45:47 UTC) 17:45:57 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:58 <DorpsGek> german - 3 changes by mbender 17:45:59 <DorpsGek> korean - 2 changes by telk5093 17:46:00 <DorpsGek> malay - 12 changes by im54 17:48:29 <roidal> Taede: where i should upload the screenshot? 17:51:02 <Taede> tinypic or similar service 17:51:31 <Taede> anything thatll let the public see your image 17:52:52 <Taede> and/or upload the savegame to dropbox or similar 17:53:14 <samu> albert is right 17:53:35 <roidal> Taede: http://i61.tinypic.com/6ykz0l.png 17:53:48 <roidal> year 2032 17:53:50 <samu> trains and trucks have already achieved saturation point 17:54:11 <samu> ships have not 17:55:08 <andythenorth> is it acceptable to shorten âincrementalâ to âincâ as an arg? 17:55:13 <andythenorth> or does it conflate with other things? 17:55:32 <Taede> at a guess, i'd say construction costs (and new vehicle costs) are not used in those graphs at all 17:55:39 <Taede> probably intended behaviour 17:56:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: seems ok to me, perhaps is_inc (if it is a boolean) 17:56:16 <roidal> Taede: what costs are used for this graph? 17:56:54 <roidal> only running costs? 17:56:59 <Taede> income, running costs, maintenance, interest (in other words, regular outgoings and incoming) 17:57:21 <roidal> strange 17:57:24 <roidal> this must be "new"? 17:57:26 <Taede> excluded would be one-offs, eg buying vehicles, terraforming, construction 17:57:59 <roidal> because i remember on a graph 17:58:02 <roidal> where this was included? 17:58:13 <roidal> ...long time ago :D 17:59:07 * andythenorth names it to the terrible âisincâ because _ is hard to type fast 17:59:29 <andythenorth> or ic 18:00:05 <Alberth> search&replace :p 18:00:27 <andythenorth> done 18:00:28 <andythenorth> thanks 18:00:56 <Alberth> or use an editor with completion 18:01:55 <chillcore> <Alberth> search&replace :p <- and coninue past end of file to make sure to catch 'em all 18:02:05 <chillcore> continue* 18:02:21 <Alberth> ugh, a so terribly broken concept 18:02:38 <chillcore> hmm never had probs with it ... 18:02:55 <Alberth> I have not yet found a use for that behavior, why would you ever not wrap search? 18:03:01 <chillcore> I am rarely at beginning of file ... 18:03:36 <chillcore> compiler will complain though ... just a bit annoying if i patch 2/10 you forgat a few 18:03:48 <chillcore> hmm spelling ... 18:03:55 <Alberth> note, that I am asking for a "not wrapping" use case :) 18:04:07 <chillcore> ok 18:04:32 <Alberth> I can't see a use for it 18:04:35 <chillcore> then no ... no use for that 18:05:11 <chillcore> my bad 18:05:15 <Alberth> which then leads to the problem why an editor has it in the first place :p 18:05:32 <Alberth> np, I didn't formulate it very clearly 18:05:59 <chillcore> story of my lafe Alberth story of my life 18:06:19 <chillcore> hmm typ,ing while eating ... even badder 18:06:23 <chillcore> see 18:06:38 <Alberth> yep, trying that here too :) 18:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> roidal: i think you're imagining things 18:07:37 <chillcore> bon apetit 18:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe you mix it up with another game 18:08:20 <roidal> maybe youre shure 18:09:39 <frosch123> Alberth: when replace "A" with "AB" you certainly don't want to wrap infinitely :p 18:09:46 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:29 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:10:32 <chillcore> hmm we have a winner ;) 18:11:11 <samu> oh alberth looks like... 2 ships on the same route pays off 18:11:11 <Alberth> frosch123: so you disable wrapping, have to go to the start of the file before you can replace? 18:11:36 <frosch123> well, usualy editors are smart enough to not iterate multiple times over the file when replacing all :p 18:11:42 <Alberth> why not try all lines exactly once instead, no matter where you are? 18:11:56 <samu> getting the 2nd ship is however, the boring part 18:12:07 <frosch123> if in doubt, use sed :) 18:12:09 <andythenorth> use better ships 18:12:19 <samu> there's only 1 cargo ship 18:13:00 <Alberth> I rarely doubt in such cases :p 18:13:16 <samu> 2 ships are profiting better than 3 trains 18:13:19 <andythenorth> anybody want to sanitise pixa? 18:13:24 <Eddi|zuHause> "continue replacing from beginning of file" usually stops at the point where you started, it doesn't loop 18:13:25 <andythenorth> and make it python 3 compatible? 18:13:30 * andythenorth guesses the answer 18:13:31 <samu> then again, the ship route isn't saturated yet 18:13:39 <samu> the train route is 18:13:47 <Alberth> samu: ships routes are never satured 18:13:48 <samu> it was faster to get 3 trains 18:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause> at least, i never have seen an editor that does... 18:14:09 <Alberth> andythenorth: I could have a go at it, but not today 18:14:27 <samu> i'm transporting coal 18:14:37 <andythenorth> Alberth: another day maybe :) 18:14:54 <andythenorth> itâs mostly stupid illegal imports I think 18:15:21 <Alberth> import * seems to work less good in python 3 18:15:27 <andythenorth> or not at all :) 18:15:35 <andythenorth> also thereâs no tests or reference case 18:15:39 <andythenorth> so testing pixa is a chore 18:15:44 <andythenorth> but I could write that 18:16:10 <Alberth> you're not even using pixa? 18:16:19 <andythenorth> I use it in a couple of places 18:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i use it, too 18:16:33 <andythenorth> itâs really convenient 18:16:43 <andythenorth> flipping 2CC colours 18:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but CETS is not ported to python3 either 18:16:46 <Alberth> you have at least 1 other user :) 18:16:46 <andythenorth> recolouring cargos 18:16:51 <andythenorth> bloody users :) 18:17:05 <andythenorth> generating spritesheets programmatically 18:17:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i also know virtually nothing about what changed between 2 and 3 18:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted to incorporate pixeltool, but never got anywhere with it 18:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i stopped at finding a command line interpreter for javascript 18:18:14 <Alberth> oh, the zephyris thing? 18:18:16 <andythenorth> nodejs? 18:18:18 <andythenorth> maybe 18:18:56 <andythenorth> we should convert the game to voxels :P 18:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> cubicles! 18:21:51 <andythenorth> eh, apart from pixa, pyflakes is now happy with Iron Horse 18:21:55 <andythenorth> small victories :P 18:22:19 <andythenorth> are conditional imports a stupid idea? 18:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i have the pixa import in a try/catch 18:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> for when it is not installed, i provide stub functions 18:23:23 <andythenorth> Iron Horse being split into rosters, it would sometimes be useful to only compile one roster 18:24:34 <Alberth> another reason why imports should not have side effects :) 18:24:43 <samu> hmm 18:24:54 <samu> gonna try 2x maintenance costs 18:25:00 <andythenorth> imports now mostly donât have side effects :) 18:25:08 <andythenorth> there are still a few 18:25:16 <andythenorth> but my code is now littered with calls to main() 18:25:26 <Eddi|zuHause> then importing "useless" modules shouldn't hurt 18:25:49 <Eddi|zuHause> put the control flow around the calling functions, not the imports 18:25:56 <Alberth> compiled byte code is cached anyway 18:27:45 <andythenorth> ok ta 18:41:41 <andythenorth> is flat better than nested? 18:42:25 <frosch123> green is certainly better than yellow 18:43:30 <andythenorth> thatâs what I think too 18:43:32 <andythenorth> except on Tuesdays 18:44:01 <chillcore> lol andy 18:48:24 <chillcore> hmm why do I always hesitate to do something when it is two or three lines and when it is a few hundred I don't ... 18:48:28 <chillcore> starnge me 18:48:35 <chillcore> strange* 19:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> green is certainly better than yellow <-- so, you are green, but nobody here is yellow. 19:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> well, maybe samu gets closest to yellow :p 19:01:08 <samu> uh? 19:07:18 <samu> Build Canal: 1/8, Remove Canal: undecided, Build Aqueduct: 1/8, Remove Aqueduct: undecided, Build Lock: 1/4, Remove Lock: unchanged, Canal Maintenance: x2 or x4 (must decide) 19:07:27 *** Romazoon [~oftc-webi@233.177.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:44 <chillcore> remove canal 2 * build at least 19:07:57 <samu> maintenance costs quickly go up per each aqueduct tile 19:08:00 <chillcore> cleanup you dirty ... 19:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> remove should certainly be expensive 19:08:27 <chillcore> but yeah something like that after buildingless cleanup 19:08:54 <samu> maintenance per canal tile: x1, per aqueduct tile: x4, per lock (includes 2 canals): x8, per lock (without canals): x6 19:09:22 <samu> if the mainentance is to be x4, all those values will go up x4 19:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you might be able to set how many trackbits an aqueduct is counted as, but not sure 19:10:27 <chillcore> that is why you test and play samu, you do not borrow money and test like a new player would play with it 19:10:55 <chillcore> if you intend to make your modifications available that is 19:11:33 <chillcore> I do that too whenever I tune 19:11:40 <samu> there is some advantages for aqueducts 19:11:48 <chillcore> ofcourse I had the luxury of having a ton of testers 19:11:51 <samu> can build stuff below them 19:11:57 <chillcore> so it took me less time 19:12:50 <chillcore> and later you make configs and do a hard setting and an easy one 19:13:03 <chillcore> when done with that custom or move on 19:13:14 <chillcore> to a new challange 19:13:39 <chillcore> anyhoo 19:14:34 <Eddi|zuHause> auf zum atem! 19:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (that 19:15:48 <samu> i know, seems like aqueducts as first route is a no 19:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> 's one of those things i have no idea how the english original joke might have been) 19:16:08 <samu> if maintenance is at x4, then it's a no 19:16:15 <samu> at x2, i'm unsure, must try 19:16:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: lmgtfy? 19:16:32 <chillcore> 0/ 19:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: probably not. 19:17:07 <samu> locks seem fine 19:17:28 <samu> i had 3 locks in the first test 19:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: keep in mind that infrastructure costs go up the more you have of that type of infrastructure 19:17:34 <Rubidium> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m-s8x8zHxg vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=457nGTf4fsQ 19:18:06 <samu> there's only "canal" maintenance, everything goes to that 19:20:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: maybe that joke actually wins something by the nonsensicalness of the german translation. 19:21:04 <chillcore> I am watching in german 19:23:57 <Rubidium> yeah, translating jokes is a major PITA 19:26:03 <Rubidium> although hearing dubbed things when you are very familiar with the original voices and sounds is really annoying as well 19:26:45 * andythenorth wonders if itâs worth trying to do a two factor sort in python 19:26:47 <andythenorth> or tmwftlb 19:27:37 <Rubidium> what's a two factor sort? 19:27:52 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-138-138.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 19:28:03 <andythenorth> e.g, sort lexically by name, then within âaâ, sort by intro date 19:28:08 <andythenorth> (made up case, but similar) 19:28:24 <andythenorth> bad example 19:28:58 <Alberth> make a tuple of values to sort one (name, intro_date, full_data) 19:28:59 <Rubidium> shouldn't you always do that if you want stable sort results? 19:29:51 <samu> daium 19:30:05 <samu> aqueduct costs are so difficult 19:30:08 <samu> to balance 19:31:57 <chillcore> *chillcore still ponders about that max heighlevel setting ... 19:32:29 <chillcore> snowline goes up to heighest level right ... 19:33:02 <chillcore> so why do we need an upperlimit for that ? 19:33:07 <chillcore> 255 done 19:33:16 <chillcore> it is the bottom that varies 19:33:29 <chillcore> untill now always below 15 19:34:03 <chillcore> so igf we raise the top levels become snow 19:34:08 <chillcore> again done 19:34:16 <chillcore> what is the diff with now 19:34:23 <chillcore> is say we lower to 3 19:34:31 <chillcore> the top levell I mean 19:34:46 <chillcore> we hate 1 lien of snow 19:34:58 <chillcore> amse if you come dowwn from 255 to 1 19:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> although hearing dubbed things when you are very familiar with the original voices and sounds is really annoying as well <-- yes, as soon as you compare the translation with the original, the translation basically lost. 19:35:04 <chillcore> no snow 19:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but a good translation makes you laugh anyway 19:35:12 <andythenorth> hmm 19:35:15 <chillcore> I really misss the point 19:35:21 <chillcore> NewGRF or not 19:35:24 <andythenorth> seems complex sorts are just handled in python by sorted() 19:35:26 <frosch123> chillcore: just grep the source for places where max_heightlevel is used 19:35:32 <andythenorth> htf does that work :| 19:35:35 * andythenorth mind blown 19:35:56 <chillcore> grep ... 19:36:12 <andythenorth> surely if I sort once, then sort again, the order of the first sort is destroyed 19:36:15 <Alberth> andythenorth: ? 19:36:25 <chillcore> k 19:36:44 <frosch123> chillcore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grep#Usage_as_a_verb 19:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: supply it a cmp function 19:36:52 <samu> lol, i made the route, now i don't have money for the ship 19:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: CETS does this 19:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the function is probably in scripts/helper.py 19:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and used in scripts/generate.py 19:37:54 <andythenorth> https://wiki.python.org/moin/HowTo/Sorting#Sort_Stability_and_Complex_Sorts 19:37:59 <andythenorth> apparently it magically just works 19:38:00 <chillcore> thx for the link 19:38:03 <andythenorth> according to those docs 19:38:57 <andythenorth> I havenât tested it, but that example would seem to violate expected behaviour 19:39:01 <chillcore> I can do that on a folder directly ? 19:39:24 <samu> i have a problem, if i lower the cost factor for the aqueduct one more half, then everything else must also be lowered, but then things won't start to make much sense 19:39:33 <samu> cost wise 19:39:55 <frosch123> chillcore: does your editor not allow searching in all files? 19:41:03 <samu> lock pricing doesn't make much sense already 19:41:13 <samu> thx to 2 canal tiles being in the cost 19:41:31 <Alberth> andythenorth: it looks like you sort on the 2nd key first 19:42:19 <samu> at such prices, making ships would also be too good for what I had in mind 19:42:36 <samu> that is, if no aqueduct is used 19:43:43 <andythenorth> maybe it depends on that example using triples 19:43:50 <andythenorth> I have a list of objects I wanted to sort 19:44:29 <andythenorth> I might use a dict of lists instead, grouping on the first sort 19:44:43 *** Romazoon [~oftc-webi@233.177.106.92.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #openttd 19:44:56 <chillcore> I was momentarily busy ... going to do it in a bit 19:45:03 <chillcore> never tested really 19:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'm the only one remembering this, but there was a grep.exe in novell dos 7 19:45:46 <samu> aqueduct at 1/16 will make lock pricing make no sense 19:45:47 <chillcore> was just trying to understand why snowline could be a reason 19:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 19:45:59 <chillcore> I'll will happily accept another reason np 19:46:00 <Eddi|zuHause> man that was a long time ago 19:46:13 <chillcore> testing 19:46:56 <samu> a 6 sized aqueduct would be cheaper, and 2 locks taking 6 tiles, and with the advantage of building routes underneath 19:47:10 <chillcore> its doing something ... 19:47:11 <samu> typoe, would be cheaper than* 19:47:48 <chillcore> should it take long? 19:47:59 <chillcore> ish 19:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: how is that a problem? 19:48:49 <samu> 2 locks in a row, will block 19:48:58 <samu> no route underneath 19:49:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. so don't use locks in that situation. 19:49:45 <Rubidium> use the chunnel patch... problem solved ;) 19:49:50 <samu> they should be cheaper 19:50:00 <samu> precisely because of that disadvantage 19:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no 19:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> locks have their strength in moving ships up multiple times 19:50:50 <peter1138> Locks never block... 19:51:18 <samu> i mean 2 locks together, one going down, one going up versus 1 aqueduct 19:51:18 *** DanMacK [~3265a7d8@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 19:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you can build bridges over the canal, instead of going under it.. 19:51:29 <DanMacK> Hey 19:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: i think your case is bogus. 19:51:39 <samu> the 2 locks structure will create a barrier 19:51:43 <samu> no bridge possible 19:51:45 <Alberth> ho, DanMacK 19:52:15 <samu> but with aqueduct, there's 2 free tiles underneath it, let's me have other routes under it 19:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: things just don't get cheaper, because they are stupid. 19:55:55 <samu> i want my pricing structure to make sense :P 19:57:48 <chillcore> hmm I need a million USB sticks ... 19:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i currently have two. 20:00:31 <chillcore> me 3 20:01:12 <chillcore> one has linux installed for if/when OS should die 20:02:06 <chillcore> could beused as portable pc hehe 20:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> in those cases i usually dig through the layers on my desk to find that knoppix cd i downloaded 5 years ago. 20:02:22 <chillcore> just attach usb screen and go 20:02:38 <chillcore> sorta 20:02:51 <chillcore> would need really small chip 20:02:58 <chillcore> and power ofcourse 20:03:04 <chillcore> maybe in screenie 20:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there are USB-stick-sized computers nowadays 20:03:39 <chillcore> sure ..; google glass and smaller 20:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it won't be very powerful, but these devices usually serve as thin client anyway, so the heavy stuff is on some "cloud" server somewhere 20:04:35 <chillcore> ye 20:06:09 <chillcore> it served me well last year when my win 8 died and the store was closed 20:06:36 <chillcore> my stuff was not on there but I could use the laptop normally 20:06:56 <chillcore> almost just a bit slow loading of progs 20:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> ramdrive/unionfs? 20:16:13 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:29:59 <samu> there's a £43 construction cost difference, favoring aqueduct, but a £36 maintenance cost per year difference, favoring 2xlocks 20:31:03 <samu> I guess I'll accept this compromise 20:31:12 <chillcore> sorry eddi got distracted ... 20:31:36 <chillcore> ramdrive for that usb? 20:33:19 * chillcore needs more screenspace 20:34:38 <chillcore> or rather connections to attach screens to 20:36:08 <andythenorth> hmm 20:36:27 <andythenorth> ternary operator is to weird to use for things like appending to lists 20:36:38 <andythenorth> foo.append(bar) if True else None is weird 20:36:49 <andythenorth> too * 20:41:27 <Alberth> yep, I don't use it at all 20:43:02 <andythenorth> works well in templates and such 20:43:07 <andythenorth> neater than my weird tuple trick 20:49:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:49:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 20:54:02 <TrueBrain> talking about Python, here is a nice riddle 20:54:06 <TrueBrain> a = {"a": 1} 20:54:10 <TrueBrain> "a" in a == True 20:54:26 <TrueBrain> what do you think the answer is, and if you would add (), where would they be? :D 20:55:05 <chillcore> 1 pair of ()? 20:55:53 <frosch123> well, the answer is easy to guess from the fact that tb asks a question :) 20:56:11 <frosch123> but to track it off-topic 20:56:27 <frosch123> "== True" and "!= False" is silly 20:56:34 <chillcore> huhu 20:56:37 <frosch123> in all languages except C 20:56:38 <TrueBrain> well, the answer might surprise you in this case 20:56:43 <TrueBrain> as that statement does not really what you expect 20:56:48 <TrueBrain> like .. it really doesnt :) 20:57:01 <frosch123> though C being the exception just shows to silly C is :p 20:57:08 <TrueBrain> "a" is in a, so you would expect it to return True .. but it doesn't :P 20:57:19 <TrueBrain> ("a" in a) == True returns True 20:57:27 <TrueBrain> "a" in (a == True) returns TypeError 20:57:31 <TrueBrain> "a" in a == True returns False 20:57:36 *** Pol [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:42 <TrueBrain> thought it would be nice to share :D 20:58:32 <chillcore> never done python yet and it is ;) 20:58:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6CB69.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:59:42 <frosch123> hmm, i would have guessed all of them, except the last one 20:59:46 <andythenorth> is there some curve speed penalty property for trains? 20:59:54 * andythenorth ponders dibbling narrow gauge up 20:59:55 <frosch123> why is '"a" in a == True' False ? 21:00:16 <TrueBrain> frosch123: now that is the question ;) 21:00:34 <TrueBrain> not often you see in a language that adding () gives other results than without any :) 21:00:48 <TrueBrain> if I would guess, I would say it does something like type("a" in a) == type(True) 21:00:54 <TrueBrain> which is False 21:01:03 * andythenorth always adds the brackets in (2 * 2) + 4 21:01:12 <andythenorth> because reasons 21:01:28 <TrueBrain> well, the above Python snippet suggests you would be more safe than I would be :P 21:02:04 <TrueBrain> anyway, time for a good night sleep :) 21:02:13 <Alberth> perhaps the x <= y <= z syntax is interfering? 21:02:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6CB69.versanet.de] has quit [] 21:03:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D962.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:05 <Alberth> hmm, nice one to report :p 21:09:07 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:10:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6CB69.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:13:25 <frosch123> night 21:13:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00be6c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:14:27 <samu> looks like there is a bug in calculating lock price 21:15:17 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 21:15:37 <samu> it's cheaper to build it on it's own than building on a rivercliff 21:15:50 <samu> shouldn't it be the opposite? 21:16:17 <chillcore> bug bug ... it has a price yes... needs tuning 21:16:46 <samu> it is adding 10k to the total 21:17:34 <chillcore> bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 21:18:31 <samu> don't add the 10k 21:18:35 <samu> and it's fixed 21:19:18 <Alberth> don't bother about 10k, and it's a non-issue 21:19:34 <chillcore> chillcore: does your editor not allow searching in all files? 21:19:38 <Alberth> in particular as you have a zillion, so 10k more or less makes no difference 21:19:44 <chillcore> I was reading ab it ... 21:19:51 <samu> omg alberth :O 21:19:59 <chillcore> workbench allowzed clicking a revision and search that from gui 21:20:52 <Alberth> you're at linux right? 21:20:56 <chillcore> ye 21:21:03 <chillcore> linux mint debian based 21:21:17 <Alberth> open a terminal right next to the editor, install 'ack', done 21:21:21 <chillcore> but not much installed and configured yet 21:21:53 <samu> oh, it's 11250 in excess 21:22:03 <chillcore> k alberth ... 21:22:09 <Alberth> hmm, debian gave it a weird name.... 21:22:53 <Alberth> chillcore: ack-grep 21:22:58 <samu> 12304 - 1054 = 11250 21:23:16 <Alberth> magic! 21:23:19 <samu> yep, for me this looks like bug 21:23:30 <samu> that rivercliff tile isn't cleared 21:23:42 <samu> when i destroy the lock, it's still there 21:23:54 <samu> shouldn't account those 11250 21:23:57 <Alberth> it is, there were rocks and stuff, boats break when they hit rock 21:24:41 <samu> rocks don't come back when i destroy lock 21:24:55 <chillcore> installed 21:24:58 <Alberth> they were removed :) 21:25:40 <Alberth> chillcore: open terminal, "ack-grep <term>" 21:25:47 <samu> i'm reporting it as bug 21:26:17 <Alberth> samu: it needs a stronger argument than "I think it's wrong" 21:26:38 <samu> the rivertile is kept wen a lock is built 21:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i always felt rocks were "wrong" 21:26:45 <samu> and also when destroyed 21:27:00 <chillcore> naw it works ... 21:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they should maybe have a bit like desert, so it comes back when clear 21:27:08 <chillcore> why is this not default? 21:27:12 <chillcore> hmm 21:27:48 <chillcore> thx Alberth 21:28:00 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 21:28:04 <Alberth> it's mostly like recursive grep, but does some added magic, like skipping certain files 21:28:23 <chillcore> ok 21:28:31 <Alberth> option -i does case-insensitive search, -l just dumps filenames 21:28:53 <samu> there is no price for a cliffed canal 21:28:55 <Alberth> and I added an "ack" alias, as that's how it is called at my Fedora system 21:28:57 <andythenorth> bollocks, /me used multiprocessing, and now has 2 problems 21:29:02 <andythenorth> :) 21:29:03 <samu> there's only the price for the lock 21:29:09 * andythenorth wanted to say the cliche 21:29:21 <Alberth> you succeeded :) 21:29:22 <samu> the price can be based on the lock itself, not on the river 21:29:49 <chillcore> ye If I ghad nknow I had to install it ...silly me 21:30:08 <chillcore> but now I also know I can do the same in my gui 21:30:09 <samu> it's wrong that when I build a lock on 3 dry tiles it is cheaper than building it on river/rivercliff/sea 21:30:24 <chillcore> doh typing 21:30:47 <chillcore> thank you 21:30:50 <Alberth> there are way too many packages to install all :) 21:31:10 <chillcore> true 21:31:28 <Alberth> so standard tactic if you don't have something, look for a package :p 21:31:37 <chillcore> good tip 21:32:10 <Alberth> though I only install packages from trusted sites, like fedora 21:34:12 <samu> I see your problem alberth 21:35:24 <Alberth> samu: nobody said you have to build over a river cliff, you can just build next to it, if you want 21:35:50 <samu> that defies common sense 21:35:55 <andythenorth> hmm stumped 21:36:00 <Rubidium> samu: it's cheaper to build a lock on a "dry" bit of land because otherwise you first need to drain the location where to build the lock *or* use expensive under water construction 21:37:08 <andythenorth> getting different results when using multiprocessing 21:37:13 <andythenorth> Iâm relying on python object hashes 21:37:15 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:23 <andythenorth> maybe theyâre not consistent under multiprocessing 21:37:32 <samu> that logic isn't consistent 21:37:54 <samu> if I remove a lock that was built on dry tiles, it won't cost 10k.. 21:38:17 <andythenorth> bye 21:38:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:39:46 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:e1e3:89a3:4edd:e9c1] has quit [Quit: .] 21:40:14 <samu> there could declived canal tiles 21:40:31 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387ac86.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:40:40 <samu> force the lock to build that declived tile 21:41:09 <samu> damn my english today is horrible 21:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> perhaps the x <= y <= z syntax is interfering? <-- that would be my first thought, too. but that would mean it tests '("a" in a) and (a == True)', which would bring back the typeerror 21:42:18 <samu> when building a canal tile on a river tile, it won't cost me 11250, just the cost of that canal tile, it ignores the river 21:42:39 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yep, 'False' makes no sense at all, imho 21:42:46 <samu> it should be similar for lock, thought instead of building 2 canal tiles, it builds 3 21:42:56 <samu> and ignore the river 21:43:21 <samu> ships are still unable to go up those cliffed canals on their own without a lock 21:43:43 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-170-165.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:43:47 <supermop> yo 21:46:01 <samu> while I'm at it, when destroying a canal tile, it shouldn't destroy the river tile if it was built on top of it 21:46:44 <samu> i was once screwed because of this on a citibuilder game 21:47:02 <samu> that river tile was part of someone else area 21:47:11 <samu> and the script destroyed those tiles 21:50:50 <samu> one other bug, though i don't consider it too critical, is upon drag&drop demolishing a large area when locks are in there 21:51:08 <samu> it leaves 1 canal tile behind 21:51:13 <samu> have to destroy a second time 21:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: wrt the river, dynamite always clears the entire tile. it's like removing road stations this way also clears the road. 21:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the other thing: are you sure the area was covered with the dynamite? 21:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that may be an actual bug. 21:58:50 <samu> when using dynamite on a lock that was built on river/rivercliff/sea, it won't clear the river/rivercliff/sea tiles - works as expected 21:59:41 <samu> when using dynamite on a lock that was built on 3 dry tiles, via drag&drop, it leaves 1 canal tile at the upper level 22:00:59 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 22:01:39 <samu> without drag&drop, it leaves 2 canal tiles behind 22:04:19 <samu> woah, discovered another drag&drop problem 22:04:29 <samu> ^_^ 22:05:25 <samu> drag and drop over the 3 tiles that were built on top of river/rivercliff/sea, will clear the rivercliff+sea tiles 22:05:50 <samu> only the river tile survives 22:05:56 <samu> the one at the top 22:08:23 <samu> i have a suggestion for the way locks are built, they could follow the same rule as docks 22:08:34 <samu> it needs a water tile already in place 22:08:52 <samu> locks should also do the same, they would require 3 water tiles already in place 22:09:10 <samu> problem is that there is no canalcliff in the game 22:09:20 <samu> just create this 22:09:23 <samu> :p 22:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> docks only need one water tile in place 22:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and the way docks work is ... suboptimal. 22:11:24 <samu> hmm drag and drop clears water under the dock 22:11:35 <samu> i didn't expect this 22:11:44 <samu> why? 22:14:55 <samu> which one is optimal then? lock or dock? 22:15:32 <samu> do you want docks to come packaged with a water tile when built? 22:16:15 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:28 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 22:24:58 <samu> does the game have a demolish table or something similar? 22:25:29 <juzza1> what is demolish table? 22:25:47 <samu> special rules for demolishing for each type of structure 22:26:28 <Supercheese> There should be something like that 22:27:45 <Supercheese> town_land.h 22:27:59 <Supercheese> HouseSpec 22:28:11 <Supercheese> I presume you have the source at hand 22:28:22 <samu> me, not looking at it, but I have it 22:29:08 <Supercheese> Well, src/table/town_land.h has "rating decrease if removed" 22:29:20 <Supercheese> among other things 22:31:41 *** DanMacK [~3265a7d8@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:32:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A192D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:59 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-5d8215a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:49:35 <supermop> what do you guys think about showing purchase sprites from a lower angle 22:49:57 <supermop> like, closer to a side elevation instead of overhead dimetric? 22:52:26 <V453000> why not :) 22:52:48 <V453000> I think especially purchase sprites have a lot of freedom that hasnt been used up yet 22:57:09 <supermop> will it break too many things if tram is longer than normal while loading? visually only 22:57:48 <supermop> i want to have coffee bins removed for loading but then where do they go? 22:58:29 <supermop> is the vehicle info windo sprite same as purchase menu? 23:04:23 <V453000> purchase menu is only purchase menu I think 23:04:31 <V453000> vehicle info windows is just -- view of the vehicle 23:04:45 <V453000> e.g. you could have purchase menu sprite of flatbed wagon for 1 thing 23:04:46 <supermop> ok 23:04:52 <V453000> but in the vehicle info window it always shows the right cargo 23:05:12 <supermop> hmm i messed up this alpha stuff 23:05:27 <supermop> and the chunk of clear plastic is just blue 23:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also have a separate sprite in list/details/details windows by checking var10 (extra_callback_info1) 23:14:49 <Eddi|zuHause> last one should be /depot 23:15:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the purchase list is special, because the vehicle is not built yet, so some variables cannot be accessed 23:15:31 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:15:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:16:04 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@c-76-102-167-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: there's nothing fundamentally wrong with longer sprites, but it may overlap with other vehicles 23:16:40 <supermop> yeah 23:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: there may also be clipping errors 23:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. under bridges, and stuff 23:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> they mÃght be less prominent with standing vehicles 23:19:31 *** Speedy` [~speedy@the.wrong.domain.name] has joined #openttd 23:19:47 *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy 23:26:45 <supermop> hmm 23:27:40 <supermop> is there an easy way in PS to take an area that is grey-ish tinted cyan and make it grey-ish tinted clear alpha? 23:29:34 <V453000> hm 23:29:47 <V453000> I guess easiest is to use the magic wand 23:29:53 <V453000> with the right settings 23:29:58 <chillcore> night all 23:30:54 *** chillcore [~chillcore@91.182.36.19] has quit [Quit: Only mortals are affected by fame and power.] 23:38:02 <supermop> figured out a way in PS 23:38:50 <supermop> but would be way easier if flamingo added alpha info to areas with transparent materials or had an alpha ground plane 23:39:13 <supermop> which it does, just not in the 7 year old version i am using 23:40:39 <V453000> :d 23:41:58 <V453000> flamingo is rendering engine for rhino? 23:42:47 <samu> woah, this demolish table is complex after all, thx to lock 23:43:48 *** smoke_fumus|2 [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 23:43:53 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:01 <samu> there's too many ways to build a lock 23:45:03 <samu> on a coast, on a river cliff, on a cliff 23:46:02 <samu> the partial parts can be on bare land, on river, on sea, on canal 23:46:55 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: what i think you are seeing with the drag&drop clearing is that the game loops over all tiles you selected, especially all 3 of the lock tiles. on the first tile, it sees the lock, clears it, and leaves the water pieces. on the second and third tile, it doesn't see the lock anymore, because it has been cleared, so it clears the remaining water tiles 23:49:18 <samu> 4*3*4 23:50:07 <samu> wait, i lie, sea can never be on the upper part 23:50:21 <supermop> V453000: its one of the plugins, and the only one i have now 23:50:29 <V453000> right :) 23:51:03 <supermop> it was the 'best' one back when i was in school, i think there are some more advanced ones now, as well as better versions of flamingo 23:51:09 <samu> rivers can never be on the lower part 23:51:22 <V453000> what does it do though? :P plugin is kind of a broad statement :P 23:51:25 <samu> hmm 3*3*3 23:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they can 23:51:39 <samu> they can ? 23:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the canal may be by you or someone else 23:52:33 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the game probably does not handle this case as "table" 23:52:48 <samu> I see 23:53:19 <samu> so I guess better solution is to create a canalcliff? 23:53:44 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK 23:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> solution for what? 23:55:20 <samu> locks have some issues 23:55:36 <Eddi|zuHause> what that "solves" is that people drag&drop a canal, and then never figure out why the ships are not using it 23:55:40 <supermop> its a renderer 23:56:15 <V453000> I think I read about it somewhere before yeah :) 23:56:17 <samu> they can't go up rivercliffs either 23:56:20 <supermop> bu it also handles lighting, materials, texture mapping, environment plants, separate from rhino itself 23:56:27 <V453000> :) 23:57:26 <samu> another simpler solution could be 23:57:36 <samu> prevent river tiles from being demolished by drag&drop 23:57:59 <samu> but not singleclick demolish 23:58:55 <samu> hmm 23:59:00 <samu> no 23:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause> samu: but "rivercliffs" (they are actually "slopes" in game terminology, cliffs would be vertical drops between edges) have visual blockings