Log for #openttd on 25th February 2015:
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00:01:14  <chillcore> I still do  not understand where you are going with this ...
00:02:41  <chillcore> if for example an oil rig dissapears ... why do you insist on restoring "a" owner?
00:03:10  <chillcore> that tiles becomes water again and that's it?
00:03:39  <samu> it is not just oil rig
00:03:59  <chillcore> as for restoring rivers after stuff on them is unbuilt ... loop over the map and store the tiles ina list ... in tick 0
00:04:35  <samu> i was thinking of everything that can be build on a canal at first
00:04:39  <chillcore> then when removing canals you look in the list and if this tile was a river make it a river again?
00:04:57  <chillcore> yes I know ... that is why I ma confused about your goal
00:05:27  <samu> canals with no owner
00:05:36  <samu> was where I started
00:05:53  <chillcore> why would you differntiate between owners?
00:06:00  <chillcore> KISS
00:06:28  <chillcore> at games start ... is this a river yes or no
00:06:30  <samu> i wanted to find a way to build ship depots and docks on canals owned by a competitor
00:06:40  <chillcore> huhu
00:06:42  <samu> the game doesn't let me do that
00:06:55  <chillcore> indeed that was your first goal
00:07:04  <chillcore> now you are doing 15 at once
00:07:28  <samu> soon i realised that the problem isn't easily solved without touching more parts
00:07:42  <chillcore> that is true for many parts of the code yes
00:08:10  <samu> realised i had to store owners for those canals somewhere
00:08:25  <chillcore> but why ... just care about is this mine or not
00:09:04  <samu> let me point to this bug report
00:09:19  <samu>
00:09:41  <samu> it's very related to that
00:11:52  <samu> i see it as a 3-sided problem
00:12:09  <samu> and i want to "universalize" it
00:12:49  <chillcore> you do that after solving each one seperatly?
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00:13:19  <samu> must solve all 3 at once, it's the only way I can go at it
00:13:24  <chillcore> ok
00:13:34  <samu> there's always a missing part of the puzzle when i try to solve only 1
00:14:45  <chillcore> so you want a competitors canal with your buoy to show three owners in the gui?
00:15:03  <samu> i don't need 3 owners
00:15:16  <samu> 2 is sufficient from what I can tell
00:15:36  <samu> when it's a station, it's not an industry
00:15:42  <samu> i checked that for the oil rig
00:16:08  <chillcore> sure oil rig is not also an industry?
00:16:22  <chillcore> while being a station
00:16:23  <samu> m1 bit 7 indicates that there is a complete industry at the tile
00:16:37  <chillcore> industries are more then one tile
00:16:59  <samu> i mean, a completed state industry
00:17:00  <chillcore> each tile has the capability to be whatever it wants, accepts whatever it wants
00:17:10  <samu> look at excell
00:17:17  <samu>!727&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A
00:17:22  <chillcore> what is airport?
00:17:27  <chillcore> station or depot
00:17:30  <chillcore> ??
00:17:38  <chillcore> or both
00:17:52  <samu> airports aren't being touched, but it's a station
00:18:15  <chillcore> and where do the little planes come from samu?
00:18:30  <chillcore> hangar ... which is a depot
00:18:38  <chillcore> inside your station
00:18:42  <samu> i haven't watched at the airport
00:18:48  <samu> let me look
00:19:06  <chillcore> same for oilrig ... one tile is dock, rest is industry
00:19:13  <chillcore> or vice versa
00:24:40  <samu> ah i see
00:24:53  <samu> airports are WATER_CLASS_INVALID
00:25:07  <samu> hangars too
00:25:34  <chillcore> that I do  not know ... I just wanted to point out that with oil rigs the same things happens
00:25:41  <chillcore> there is an industry part
00:26:08  <chillcore> and a station part, except that station is never owned by a company so all can use it
00:26:28  <samu> the station is being identified as oil rig station
00:26:38  <chillcore> good
00:26:55  <samu> it's stored at m6 too at bits... hmmm let me find
00:27:33  <chillcore> I need to be somewhere in 9 hours so ... not going to be here till 4:30 today
00:28:44  <samu> bits 5, 4 and 3
00:29:10  <samu> that indicates what kind of station
00:29:15  <samu> oil rig is...
00:29:46  <chillcore> I dunno honestly, I guess dock since it is for ships to use
00:29:48  <samu> crap, fast forwarding
00:29:57  <samu> is sooo slow in debug mode
00:30:11  <chillcore> try smaller maps maybe
00:30:11  <samu> let me build in scenario editor, brb
00:31:49  <samu> 0x20
00:32:38  <samu> m6 = 0010 0000
00:32:46  <samu> bits 543 are then 100
00:32:49  <samu> 100 = oil rig
00:32:51  <samu> station
00:33:24  <samu> it's a station, much like a buoy or dock
00:33:44  <chillcore> tadaaaa ... now check the other tiles too?
00:33:56  <samu> k
00:34:29  <samu> m6 = 0
00:34:46  <samu> let me look at industry what m6 stores
00:35:26  <samu> •m6 bits 5..3: random triggers (NewGRF)
00:35:41  <samu> no idea what that is, but I don't intend to touch those bits
00:36:06  <samu> •m6 bit 2: bit 8 of type (see m5)
00:36:26  <samu> •m5: type (plus m6 bit 2):
00:36:37  <samu> well, i don't intend to touch bit 2 either
00:36:56  <samu> i will touch bits 7..6, and 1..0
00:39:04  <samu> the oil rig station is a "oil rig station", lel
00:39:20  <samu> not a "dock" or "airport", it's is own thing, "oil rig station"
00:40:45  <chillcore> good you learned somthing new
00:42:11  <samu> yeah
00:42:13  <samu> thanks
00:42:33  <chillcore> I need to go to sleep now ... otherwise I will not sleep at all
00:42:43  <samu> okay, cya good night
00:42:48  <chillcore> you're welcome samu, good luck
00:42:55  <chillcore> good night
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01:23:39  <samu> patch posted:
01:23:45  <samu> and now, off to bed, cyas all
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03:33:17  <Pikkaphone> and did those feet
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03:40:28  <DDR> Hello, all. :)
03:45:03  <supermop> yo
03:45:17  <Pikkaphone> yoyo
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04:31:47  <supermop> what's going on
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04:36:27  <chillcore> o/
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04:48:23  <Pikkaphone> might be
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06:09:09  <supermop> othere than four corners, two straights, four Ts and one X, any other sprites needed for a tramway grf?
06:09:24  <supermop> i guess four slopes
06:09:35  <chillcore> crossings?
06:09:40  <chillcore> and hello
06:11:47  <chillcore> hmm does any of the sprites you list take into account making a U-turn?
06:13:16  <chillcore> powerlines too ?
06:15:30  <supermop> hmm yes will need 4 Us
06:15:57  <supermop> how do crossings work - its part of road grf or track, or tram?
06:16:11  <chillcore> not sure if they can make U-turns on slopes ...
06:16:29  <chillcore> hmm good question that ...
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06:29:59  <chillcore> you can build tram tracks in the wild (without road under it) ...
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06:34:54  <chillcore> supermop:
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06:53:53  <Ketsuban> Pretty sure the trams in OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles shouldn't be making a boat noise. I've tried shuffling my GRFs around, no effect. What's going on?
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08:14:31  <Celestar> gday
08:23:42  <supermop> trying to make things glow
08:31:21  <V453000> glow? :d
08:31:32  <V453000> that is best done in postproduction :P
08:33:34  <supermop> less fun than figuring out how to create exotic materials in flamingo
08:33:44  <V453000> XD
08:33:47  <V453000> k
08:36:16  <planetmaker> moin moin
08:36:45  <planetmaker> Ketsuban, maybe they do make a boat noise because of a bug? (dunno) :)
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08:45:34  <Supercheese> The boat noise usually happens when a sound is not properly defined
08:45:51  <Supercheese> I've had it happen when writing new grfs and I forgot to choose a sound
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08:48:18  <Supercheese> I don't know what's going on in this instance though
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09:35:10  <supermop> one of the built in flamingo help topics gives index of refraction of plain whiskey
09:38:05  <planetmaker> interesting, Supercheese :)
09:38:09  <V453000> :>
09:38:35  <planetmaker> I made a note on the sound in the issue tracker as I don't have time for that myself right now... but I should add your observation :)
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11:07:06  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i would not have this grey block in the middle of the suspension
11:07:34  <V453000> it has to be based somewhere? :)
11:08:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the point of a suspension is that it's "based" on the top of the pillars, and inbetween it follows a catenary curve
11:08:18  <V453000> hm
11:08:30  <V453000> true that
11:08:48  <V453000> I have seen bridges have this kind of base too though
11:09:45  <planetmaker> what grey block do you mean, Eddi|zuHause ?
11:10:12  <planetmaker> the anchor points for the cables?
11:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes. anchor points at the end are fine, but in the middle they seem weird
11:11:42  <planetmaker> in the middle?
11:12:03  <planetmaker> I mean the main cable must be attached somewhere, no?
11:12:18  <Eddi|zuHause> do i need to explain what a middle is?
11:12:56  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes. on top of the pillars.
11:14:54  <V453000> still needs the second point I think
11:15:03  <planetmaker> seem to suggest that they often are attached only to pillars, but sometimes also end at the bridge
11:15:09  <V453000> I do visualizations of real projects at work and some bridges totally have that
11:15:12  <V453000> yes
11:15:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it's possible that some bridges have that. but it seems a bit off for me
11:16:15  <V453000> it gives the trustworthiness to me, that it is solid and it works :D
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11:18:28  <supermop> V453000: it works like railroad catenary
11:18:54  <supermop> this type of anchor is more a feature of cable stayed bridges
11:19:53  <supermop> breaking the cable to attach to the deck makes it weaker - the joints are the weakest part ideally the main cable should be as continuous as possible
11:20:03  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: my intuitive feeling tells me that such a construction actually reduces the possible span of a bridge
11:20:23  <supermop> sorry to be pedantic
11:21:11  <supermop> you of course should go by what you like the look of
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11:36:56  <supermop> V453000: do you provide separate renders for Zoomed out sprites, or scale in PS, or just let Openttd produce in game?
11:37:32  <planetmaker> separate renders afaik
11:38:01  <supermop> i guess i could do that
11:38:12  <supermop> or just scale in PS from big render
11:46:40  <supermop> i've learned more little things in rhino last few days than last few years
11:46:49  <supermop> same with ps
12:06:40  <V453000> back :D
12:06:49  <V453000> right now, I downsize them in after effects
12:06:54  <V453000> which is like the worst way possible, but automated
12:07:22  <V453000> but since I can already render automatically now, I can get some rendering for x1
12:07:25  <V453000> not doing x2
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12:07:41  <V453000> scaling in PS would work a lot better as you can at least choose downsampling algorithm
12:07:47  <V453000> which you cant in AE
12:08:02  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: idk XD
12:08:20  <V453000> I dont think it is majorly a problem :P
12:09:34  <V453000> supermop: actually for trains, I Sometimes provide x1 sprites, sometimes not to let OpenTTD handle it. Sometimes the OpenTTD downscaling is better than AE downscaling ... but I should set up some infrastructure to get that done as well, consistently
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12:30:30  <supermop> V453000: yeah thats what i though
12:31:05  <supermop> im doing each sprite at effectively 8x then scaling in PS as it looks better than just rendering 1:1
12:31:15  <supermop> i think
12:31:17  <V453000> O_O
12:31:22  <supermop> i cant tell for sure
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12:31:38  <supermop> that i mean 512px tiles instead of 256
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12:31:45  <V453000> I understand
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12:31:52  <V453000> weird though
12:32:13  <V453000> perhaps increasing render quality with x4 would help instead
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12:32:52  <supermop> weirdest is the light and contrast seems to get better up to a certain point with increasing render size
12:33:04  <V453000> xd
12:33:13  <V453000> flamingo is wtf.
12:33:23  <supermop> well i also really upped the AA in flamingo and now i dont get fuzz around edges as much
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12:34:03  <V453000> right
12:34:09  <supermop> anyway i think iive render all of the W class dieter trams
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12:35:19  <supermop> maybe i'll make a spreadsheet of info about them? pikka has just been putting in the stats on his own before i can give them to him though
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12:44:47  <supermop> my set up toay is about 40x faster than what ive been doing the past few weeks
12:45:52  <supermop> today
12:46:14  <planetmaker> that's a considerable improvement :)
12:46:25  <peter1138> Upgraded from a 386?
12:48:51  <argoneus> how are you doing train friends
12:49:22  <V453000> 40x faster even with x8 render? XD
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12:55:58  <supermop> less time wasted messing arounf in ps
12:56:08  <supermop> trying to get things looking right
12:56:27  <V453000> xd
12:56:38  <V453000> tis why I just dump it into after effects to automate
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14:17:12  <planetmaker> so... 13 people voted so far in the titlegame competition. Make your choice and vote now :)
14:19:05  <V453000> !!
14:20:39  <planetmaker> especially peter1138 should vote instead of complaining afterwards about the outcome of the vote ;)
14:21:15  <V453000> XD
14:21:17  <V453000> BITCH
14:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause> mouse doesn't work well on cat
14:36:37  <peter1138> planetmaker, nah, I saw the comment about noise.
14:37:11  <peter1138> No doubt the noisiest busiest game will win anyway, regardless of my (lack of) vote.
14:38:25  <V453000> well at least some people seem to mention audio in the thread I thought
14:38:27  <V453000> progress :P
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14:42:49  <Eddi|zuHause> soo... after 20 years i found out that in MAX you can make more than 10 savegames by pressing the arrow down button on the screen
14:43:53  <planetmaker> peter1138, sure... except last time it would have made a difference
14:44:14  <peter1138> I wasn't around then, and... not really now :p
14:45:12  <planetmaker> cheap excuse
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16:06:57  <Alberth> hi hi
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16:18:17  <samu> hi
16:21:36  <samu> testing 1.5.0-beta2
16:21:52  <samu> double gui size looks quite improved
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17:46:43  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27171 /trunk/src/lang (korean.txt latin.txt) (2015-02-25 17:46:35 UTC)
17:46:44  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:45  <DorpsGek> korean - 11 changes by telk5093
17:46:46  <DorpsGek> latin - 2 changes by Supercheese
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18:15:42  <Sonny_Jim> Does transporting passengers from Oilfields increase their production?
18:15:46  <Sonny_Jim> And if not, why not :-0
18:18:26  <Alberth> default industries are not that smart, I think
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18:19:16  <Alberth> don't know what OpenGFX+industries does here, probably the same
18:19:47  <Alberth> you can try yeti, which is based around moving yetis
18:20:01  <Alberth> or firs, if you fancy replacing persons by supplies
18:20:58  <Alberth> oh, and there is manpower industries, that does do something with persons
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18:34:41  <andythenorth> cat is gone?
18:40:23  <samu> what is •m6 bits 5..3: random triggers (NewGRF)
18:40:36  <samu> what does it do
18:43:22  <Terkhen> hello
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18:44:39  <samu> hi
18:46:44  <andythenorth> lo Terkhen :)
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18:48:11  <Alberth> o/
18:49:06  <samu> what is random triggers?
18:49:39  <andythenorth> Terkhen: can’t tempt you back to a little light coding? o_O
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18:50:11  <Alberth> hola
18:50:37  <Terkhen> it would have to be very light or very tempting :P
18:51:01  <andythenorth> he
18:51:15  * andythenorth codes for entertainment
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18:52:24  <Alberth> play some busy bee Terkhen :p    it helped for andy :D
18:52:36  <V453000> andythenorth: cat
18:52:59  <Alberth> WOOOOOOOW
18:53:20  <samu> nice graphics
18:53:41  <Alberth> I like that you're not hiding the trains behind bridge parts
18:54:19  <Terkhen> Alberth: I googled it, it seems very interesting :O
18:54:32  <samu> this game isn't really 3D
18:54:50  <samu> doesn't have depth
18:54:52  <Alberth> Terkhen:  very casual and simple
18:55:40  <Terkhen> yes :)
18:55:46  <Alberth> I recently switched back to original map generator, it's quite different if you're used to terragenesis
18:56:08  <samu> what are random triggers (NewGRF)?
18:56:08  <Alberth> lots of small hills with gaps between them
18:57:06  <Alberth> you get routes all over the map, very fragmented
18:57:07  <andythenorth> things we need
18:57:09  <andythenorth> better rivers
18:57:15  <andythenorth> new scenario format
18:57:18  <andythenorth> consist management
18:57:21  <andythenorth> flat docks
18:57:23  <andythenorth> then we’re done
18:57:25  <andythenorth> we can all go home
18:57:32  <samu> flat docks, what is that
18:57:44  <Alberth> it's a dock, but flat
18:58:00  <andythenorth> for building by rivers
18:58:13  <andythenorth> without requiring excessive terraforming
18:58:24  <Alberth> andythenorth: I don't think 'light' or 'tempting' fits any of those things :)
18:58:30  <andythenorth> ha
18:58:53  <andythenorth> well /me has been porting newgrfs to python and making them lint correctly
18:58:57  <samu> ah more docking points for docks
18:58:58  <andythenorth> my idea of fun might not be yours :P
18:59:10  <andythenorth> also I am looking forward to a 50% recode of FIRS :P
18:59:15  <andythenorth> other people might not
18:59:25  <andythenorth> python 3 *
18:59:29  <Alberth> oh, that list was for me? :)
18:59:38  <andythenorth> it wasn’t for a specific person :P
18:59:50  * andythenorth should go and read bedtime stories
18:59:56  <andythenorth> this is avoidance behaviour
19:00:08  <Alberth> make the kids happy
19:00:30  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
19:00:39  <Alberth> hi hi mr W
19:00:39  <Wolf01> hi hi
19:02:42  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
19:03:46  *** chillcore [~chillcore@] has joined #openttd
19:04:03  <chillcore> hello all
19:04:13  <Wolf01> o/
19:11:58  <andythenorth> stories done
19:16:10  *** liq3 [] has quit []
19:16:27  <Wolf01> lego purchase done
19:21:45  <frosch123> star was plays 1 billion years in the past?
19:21:49  <frosch123> +r
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19:23:01  *** roidal [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1]
19:25:00  <Wolf01> also, I need an idea for what applet I could develop for my new logitech g510 keyboard display
19:25:31  <peter1138> Something which you never need to look at as it isn't going to be in your field of view.
19:27:27  <samu> please tell me what is random triggers at industry tiles
19:27:44  <samu>
19:27:51  <samu> •m6 bits 5..3: random triggers (NewGRF)
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19:29:36  <planetmaker> g'evening
19:29:49  <Alberth> evenink
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19:31:14  <Alberth> Wolf01: automagic spelling correction :p
19:31:33  <Wolf01> that one would be nice
19:32:10  <Wolf01> I was thinking about an app which tells me what to type on the keyboard :P
19:32:11  <Alberth> psychic auto-completion
19:33:12  <chillcore> samu:
19:34:20  <Alberth> Wolf01:   maybe as inspiration? :)
19:35:11  <Wolf01> :D
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19:38:57  <samu> certification revoked
19:39:10  *** Plaete [] has joined #openttd
19:40:48  <samu> certification doesn't match the address, something like that
19:40:53  <samu> continue?
19:41:23  <frosch123> hmm, not sure whether the iceweasel approach of debian is the best idea
19:42:02  <frosch123> it gradually breaks more and more with more backports
19:42:44  <samu> sorry, the error is in portuguese: Um Web site está a utilizar um certificado que foi emitido para um endereço Web diferente. Isto pode ocorrer se uma empresa for titular de vários Web sites e utilizar o mesmo certificado para múltiplos Web sites.
19:43:00  <chillcore> samu: allow exception? import certificate? otherwise search "newgrf random triggers"
19:45:37  <chillcore> I had that warning for tt-forums too a few years back ... certificate was not expired as suggested
19:46:07  <chillcore> The wraning you are getting is just about the xertificate being used for multiple websites ... nothing to worrie about in this case
19:46:20  <chillcore> typing ... doh
19:50:48  <Alberth> ugh, my BB broke :(
19:52:00  <glx> <Wolf01> also, I need an idea for what applet I could develop for my new logitech g510 keyboard display <-- an ets2 dashboard ;)
19:52:37  <andythenorth> Alberth: what’s broken in it? o_O
19:52:56  <Wolf01> eh, that was the idea, but what could I put in it which is not already there?
19:54:04  <Alberth> I changed the news message in openttd, but did not update the script, as I wanted to continue playing the game :)
19:54:53  <Alberth> so it wanted to post a news message about a won goal, and used the old parameters :)
19:54:57  <samu> wondering if I can extrapolate...
19:55:30  <samu> extrapolate the exact owners by knowing the waterclass
19:56:39  <samu> without actually storing owners
19:57:20  <Alberth> in SP you're always correct
19:59:00  <Alberth> andythenorth: shall we reset the counter back to x years if you deliver something?
20:01:35  <andythenorth> I think so
20:01:42  <andythenorth> Busy Bee is kind of relaxed
20:01:49  <andythenorth> I never feel any pressure to try and make the goal
20:01:57  <andythenorth> there’ll always be another one :P
20:03:52  <planetmaker> andythenorth, Alberth it could add a secondary goal or metric: award prices for reaching certain amount of goals within a time. Or awarding a price. (Does it do that?)
20:04:01  <andythenorth> nah :)
20:04:13  <andythenorth> I am enjoying the ‘no goal’ goal
20:04:20  <planetmaker> well :)
20:04:21  <andythenorth> there’s no prize, no end point, no level up
20:04:41  <Alberth> planetmaker:  the biggest price for a busy bee is working to make the goal
20:04:46  <andythenorth> later this year I want to use Busy Bee as a base for some ‘Pioneer’ GS
20:04:56  <andythenorth> where you start on one side of the map, and connect towns across it
20:05:03  <andythenorth> with limitations and restrictions
20:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> someone wanted to make a script that you start with one town and it continuously founds new towns at the edge of civilization
20:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause> but i forgot who that was
20:08:40  <samu> problem: I can't store 3 owners with only 4 free bits
20:09:02  <samu> but I can store 2 owners
20:09:27  <samu> the 3rd owner is, however... either OWNER_NONE or OWNER_WATER
20:09:45  <samu> wondering if I can extrapolate the 3rd owner by knowing the other 2
20:09:46  <planetmaker> that's one bit
20:10:23  <samu> that's when waterclass comes into this
20:10:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that was me
20:10:50  <Alberth> planetmaker: for me, it trying to make it non-competitive, and see where it goes. We have lots of competitive scripts already
20:10:58  <andythenorth> I never played actual Civ, how does Civ work approximately?
20:11:38  <samu> I don't have that extra bit
20:11:43  <samu> i have to extrapolate it
20:11:50  <planetmaker> Alberth, I didn't mean it competitive. But like collect awards. Gain 10% more than last goal, if you don't skip it. Otherwise start from base reward again. Or something like that
20:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> civ works that you build up your towns, then someone declares war and overruns you
20:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause> or if you can stop one attacker, more people attack at the same time and overrun you
20:12:31  <planetmaker> awards could be funny awards. Like a free vehicle in a depot (on of those the player uses), some money maybe. Or an industry opening :)
20:12:38  <Eddi|zuHause> or you just fall behind in tech and everyone overruns you
20:12:40  <Alberth> planetmaker: ah right, I included competition with yourself :p
20:12:46  <planetmaker> :)
20:12:51  <andythenorth> hmm
20:12:57  <andythenorth> war theme is not allowed :P
20:13:02  <andythenorth> can’t copy Civ
20:13:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen a playthrough of civ4 where someone played ghandi and never built a single military unit
20:13:42  <samu> there's 15 companies, and an unused 16th which is OWNER_TOWN, but I know OWNER_TOWN never builds sea, river or canal
20:13:42  <Alberth> but I can see it could be interesting, achieving goals to 'unlock' new things
20:13:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but he hand-picked his opponents so there's no known warmonger amongst them
20:13:59  <Alberth> doesn't really fit in BB to me, at the moment
20:14:25  <samu> could possibly use that 16th to store something
20:20:27  <andythenorth> Alberth: unlocking is different
20:20:31  <samu> build in order: sea < river < oil rig < oil rig station
20:20:40  <andythenorth> I think a wide range of GS is beneficial to us
20:20:44  <samu> build in order 2: sea < canal < oil rig < oil rig station
20:21:13  <andythenorth> I have this vain hope that we can swing the focus of development (such as it is) away from core OpenTTD (mostly done) and towards GS
20:21:39  <andythenorth> because new GSs keep refreshing the gameplay
20:21:49  <andythenorth> at low cost
20:21:59  <samu> sea/river owner = 10001
20:22:01  <andythenorth> whereas changes to core Openttd increasingly seem to have costs
20:22:19  <Alberth> true
20:22:50  <Alberth> and yes, it's good to have several different types of GSes
20:22:55  <andythenorth> also it’s really quite done
20:22:56  <samu> build in order 3: river < canal < oil rig < oil rig station
20:23:32  * andythenorth wonders what’s in V2 :P
20:23:46  <Alberth> but I think it's a different audience
20:23:46  <Eddi|zuHause> fuel and a bit of explosive
20:24:13  <Alberth> ie I would not want to code GSes only, and not touch openttd itself
20:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, you didn't mean the rocket :p
20:24:28  <Alberth> but maybe I am crazy :p
20:25:12  <andythenorth> well OpenTTD is not short of ponies :P
20:26:05  <Alberth> no, I am short of time :)
20:26:31  <samu> order 1 waterclass: 00 < 10 < 10 < 10
20:27:04  <samu> order 2 waterclass: 00 < 01 < 01 < 01
20:27:50  <samu> order 3 waterclass: 10 < 01 < 01 < 01
20:29:25  <Alberth> just 3 options?
20:29:39  <Alberth> that fits in 2 bits
20:31:04  <samu> 01 is the only waterclass that can have company owners
20:31:55  <samu> 00 and 10 owners are always the same: owner 10001
20:32:54  <samu> 01 neutral owner isn't actually OWNER_WATER, but OWNER_NONE
20:33:00  <samu> 10000
20:35:41  <samu> the last 4 bits can't be stored at m1 when an oil rig takes its place
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20:37:17  <samu> i have 1xxxx and 0xxxx
20:37:25  <samu> + water class
20:37:37  *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
20:38:06  <samu> damn dinner,
20:38:09  <samu> gotta go eat
20:40:40  <andythenorth> so is the future then?
20:40:51  <andythenorth> it is a nice style
20:41:48  <planetmaker> it is. And whether it's *a* (not the) future... depends on whether that guy continues ;)
20:42:36  * andythenorth keeps wondering about 2x zoom pixel art
20:42:40  <andythenorth> but eh, time
20:48:39  <V453000> =D renderized stuf
20:48:55  <andythenorth> needs good models
20:49:01  <andythenorth> and good conversion to pixals
20:49:07  * andythenorth has neither
20:50:55  <chillcore> Those models look amazingly detailed ... delicious
20:51:12  * chillcore licks screen ... almost
20:52:12  <chillcore> could he up the scale easily? 3 by 3 or 4 by 4 tiles?
20:52:53  <planetmaker> depends on how it's created :)
20:57:29  <chillcore> rendered models planetmaker ... see the litlte building being repeated a few times
20:58:25  <planetmaker> c&p can do that with pixel art, too ;)
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20:59:41  <planetmaker> however I believe also it's models
21:00:06  <Alberth> hmm, no translation for GS settings?
21:00:28  *** shadowalkerAFK is now known as shadowalker
21:00:38  <chillcore> planetmaker: on closer inspection ... there is some shadow inconsistencies ... hmm
21:00:48  <chillcore> still looks amazing though
21:04:56  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:07:42  *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
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21:22:40  <samu> work in progress:!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
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21:24:15  <chillcore> o/
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21:30:17  <chillcore> question: how do I enter a negative sign in a SC_NUMERAL queybox? safely that is I do not want to allow anything but "-" not being a number ...
21:30:33  <chillcore> querybox*
21:32:26  <frosch123> IsValidChar(WChar key, CharSetFilter afilter) does not accept negative numbers
21:33:14  <frosch123> you would like want to check whether the "-" is in first place
21:33:22  <frosch123> or you make some trick, so you can enter a positive number instead :p
21:34:19  <chillcore> hmm tricks ... tickbox could be an option yes
21:34:40  <frosch123> nah, i mean like using a different "unit"
21:35:27  <chillcore> hmm ...
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21:35:48  <Alberth> make it different from SC_NUMERAL ?
21:39:50  <chillcore> and let people enter text strings which gets converted to numeral?
21:39:56  <chillcore> that could be fun
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21:40:17  * chillcore checks querybox code
21:41:08  <Alberth> andythenorth:  added some new code to BB, it needs a little testing before we make a new release imho, it's not compatible (added new options).
21:41:20  <andythenorth> hmm
21:41:38  <andythenorth> my current game is maybe coming to an end :P
21:42:15  <Alberth> mostly just a quick run to check there is nothing really broken, imho
21:42:37  <Alberth> like stupid syntax errors and such :p
21:43:13  <Alberth> I also took out the version information from the game name string, let's see if that works
21:43:43  <Alberth> the path does get printed on a crash, so it should be alright for bug reports
21:44:01  <Alberth> gn
21:44:13  <chillcore> Just trying to give moki the freedom he needs to fully explore the perlin noise bounderies (cause that is where the magic happens) ... all tgen params to int32 (except for seed which remains uint32)
21:44:21  <chillcore> goodnight Alberth
21:44:53  <Alberth> sounds good :)
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21:49:56  <chillcore> frosh: Stupid idea probably, I let people enter uint32 values and cast to int32?
21:50:08  <chillcore> as if the thing is not confusing enough already :P
21:50:27  <Terkhen> good night
21:50:30  <frosch123> you could also add sliders, and not have to enter exact numbers :p
21:51:52  <chillcore> yeah maybe I could go for that first ... then add a smaller array for small maps. although I had the reverse order in mind
21:52:14  <chillcore> makes sense. thx
21:52:45  <chillcore> good night Terkhen you too ;)
21:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause> do the existing settings not have negative numbers?
21:53:53  <chillcore> in the gui no ... they are clamped to uints in setting.ini
21:53:57  <frosch123> autorenew has
21:54:06  <frosch123> renew x months before old
21:54:20  <frosch123> no idea whether it supports the querybox
21:54:24  <chillcore> in the code yes ... somewhere before sea level is applied eddi
21:55:44  <chillcore> read: the seed not only creates bumps but dips too
21:56:02  <chillcore> way before we get the cutout we see
21:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i meant the settings gui
21:57:58  <frosch123> yeah, autoreplace shows "-" in the query, but if you deelte it you cannot readd it :p
21:58:17  <frosch123> so, eddi can provide a patch to fix that :)
21:58:26  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds unlikely :p
21:59:12  *** shadowalker is now known as shadowalkerAFK
22:00:10  <chillcore> autorenew eh ... having a looksie
22:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it's weird how you sometimes read old posts of yourself and either think "yeah, that does sound like me" or "how in the world did i ever say that?!?"
22:02:20  <chillcore> yeah ... I remember my very first post still
22:02:32  <chillcore> I corrected myself years after :P
22:04:44  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
22:16:36  <chillcore> frosh: interesting ... I can has negative nrs when I enter them in the config file
22:20:43  <frosch123> night
22:20:45  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
22:22:10  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
22:26:20  <Wolf01> 'night
22:26:27  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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22:29:38  <supermop> good morning
22:38:50  <samu> question, what exactly happens in order at the last construction step of an oil rig?
22:39:10  <samu> which comes first
22:39:22  <samu> the last construction step, then oil rig station?
22:39:38  <samu> or, skip last step and build oil rig station? hmm
22:39:51  <samu> trying to figure out
22:41:21  <samu> please look:!727&authkey=!AGBG83CxA0fiT8A&ithint=file%2cxlsx
22:41:38  <samu> all steps in order, i am only wondering about that last step
22:45:38  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
22:45:47  <chillcore> can't open that without unlocking my browser (removing all addons) samu ...
22:47:13  <chillcore> why do you not make a new profile at tt-forums and start a thread? many more people will be able to help you ...
22:47:28  <planetmaker> good night
22:47:40  <chillcore> night planetmaker ;)
22:50:07  <samu> bah i submited an error
22:50:12  <samu> fixed, reload excel file
22:55:24  <chillcore> hmm I mean the page does not load at all ... because blocked. same for google+ and all other sites that require cookies and/or javascript to work properly or at all, sorry
22:57:01  <samu> it's excel online
22:57:05  <samu> a spreadsheet
22:57:37  <samu> i take a screenshot
22:58:29  <chillcore> and post it on your skydrive? same thing samu
22:58:51  <samu> where can i psot, imgur?
22:59:26  <chillcore> tt-forums? where everybody else is that can help you far better then me
22:59:40  <samu> hmm
23:00:08  <chillcore> I mean sure there are peeps here too but they are afk, don't know, don't dig logs,  whatever
23:00:35  <chillcore> on the forums your post are seen even weeks later sometimes
23:00:46  <samu> i don't knwo, i tried 3 times to contact orudge, and received no answer
23:01:12  <chillcore> you will NOT get your old account back samu, you have been told multiple times
23:01:37  <chillcore> the ticket has been closed because you were gone such a long time
23:01:44  <samu> I did not know that
23:02:00  <chillcore> maybe you missed it
23:02:56  <chillcore> just create a new account. ;)
23:08:13  <samu>
23:08:22  <samu> should open
23:09:17  <chillcore> it does ... does not make me wiser though.
23:09:29  <chillcore> educated guess the station tile is added as last step
23:09:55  <chillcore> until step 15 the industry is created
23:10:28  <chillcore> step 16 is adding just that station tile
23:10:38  <samu> step 15 is also the final version
23:10:51  <chillcore> hmm sure about that?
23:10:59  <samu> yes
23:11:13  <chillcore> count ignoring nrs ;)
23:11:36  <samu> but that oil station is placed somehow after 14
23:11:47  <chillcore> 14 is step 15
23:11:50  <samu> like it's at the same time as 15
23:11:55  <chillcore> it starts at ... 0
23:12:57  <samu> ok, 0 is sea
23:13:06  <samu> at step 1 i pave all that with canal
23:13:35  <samu> at 2 i place an oil rig there - i notice the owner is borked
23:13:44  <samu> doesn't matter
23:13:56  <samu> then all those steps up till the construction end
23:14:30  <samu> 15 happens at the same time as 14, at least to my naked eye
23:14:38  <samu> but in reality, I don't know, and I need to know
23:15:37  <samu> step 14 is also it's constructed form - final
23:16:07  <samu> when querying it a year laster, it's still like in step 14 for oil rig tiles, and like in step 15 for the station
23:16:12  <samu> year later*
23:17:27  <chillcore> wait what ... since when do we construct industries on company owned "terrain"?
23:17:37  <samu> you can
23:17:40  <samu> try it
23:18:08  <samu> it currently turns the canal owner from whatever it is to NO_OWNER
23:18:22  <chillcore> I do not see the point in trying samu ... companies should not own industries at all
23:18:26  <samu> that's why I see that 1 at bit 4
23:18:30  <samu> at the first step
23:18:49  <samu> first consutrction step*
23:19:22  <samu> it won't own the industry
23:19:37  <samu> because it becomes a new type of tile
23:19:46  <samu> from water, to industry
23:19:48  <chillcore> ye ... (let's just use the nrs in your spreadsheet to avoid confusion)
23:19:57  <glx> consider it like an expropriation and it will be easier
23:20:28  <glx> then you just need to remove the tiles from the player counter
23:21:47  <samu> what happens exactly between step 1 and step 2 in spreadsheet?
23:22:03  <samu> in the code
23:22:17  <glx> the tile becomes an industry tile
23:22:33  <samu> yes, but that 1 at bit 4 must come from somewhere
23:24:00  <samu> i think (not sure) there's some hidden step between 1 and 2 that changes owner for that canal
23:25:11  <samu> let me test
23:25:32  <samu> 163-157
23:25:51  <samu> 6
23:26:06  <samu> company 1 had 163 canal tiles
23:26:19  <samu> i started an oil rig on those canals, it lost 6 canals
23:26:32  <samu> that means they are already transfered to NO_OWNER
23:26:36  <samu> or OWNER_NONE
23:26:57  <samu> it's happening between step 1 and 2, how do i find this step in code
23:27:10  <glx> the tiles are cleared before the conversion to industry so the ownership is removed
23:27:29  <samu> they're not cleared, because they're still canals
23:27:35  <samu> waterclass is canal
23:27:36  <glx> they are cleared
23:27:58  <glx> waterclass is kept but the tile is cleared
23:28:25  <glx> you can check the number of owned canal tiles
23:28:40  <samu> i did, from 163 went to 157
23:28:51  <glx> so owner is gone
23:28:59  <samu> owner is gone, but not the canal
23:29:50  <glx> it is gone too, and recreated by the industry
23:30:18  <glx> it's not a "real" canal as it's an industry tile
23:30:39  <glx> but it has the same functionality for boats
23:31:14  <glx> and canals can have no owner (happens when bankrupt)
23:32:31  <samu> i swear it maintains whatever water class it was there
23:32:42  <glx> it does keep it yes
23:32:51  <samu> if sea, then sea, if canal then canal, if river, then river
23:33:00  <samu> even when oilfield disappears
23:33:05  <glx> but that has no importance
23:33:10  <chillcore> ^^^
23:33:20  <samu> :)
23:33:40  <glx> the ownership has been taken by government during construction
23:33:43  <glx> that's all
23:34:08  <samu> let me look at makeindustry again
23:34:18  <glx> it's not there :)
23:34:44  <glx> you need to go upper (DoCreateNewIndustry)
23:37:34  <glx> MakeIndustry just set the tile data
23:37:58  <samu> it takes it away, then puts back, all in the same function
23:38:04  <samu> strange lol
23:39:47  <glx> because when you remove a tile it checks if it's possible to do it
23:40:32  <glx> that's the remove part that checks for boat presence for instance
23:42:09  <glx> of course it also checks that you own the tile
23:42:36  <glx> you can't place an oilrig on canal own by other companies
23:43:37  <samu> i don't know, i tested on my owned canals
23:44:00  <glx> I read the code :)
23:44:26  <samu> crap, that must be changed then
23:44:34  <glx> why ?
23:44:57  <samu> because... that's part of the objective
23:47:20  <samu> share canal tiles like they're roads
23:50:03  <glx> they are shared already
23:50:16  <glx> you can't remove road you don't own
23:50:23  <glx> same for canals
23:52:01  <samu> i can build drive-through road stops on competitor roads
23:52:05  <samu> or town roads
23:52:37  <samu> oil rigs, ship depots, dock water tile, etc can't
23:52:48  <samu> apparently oil rigs can't either, I didn't know that yet
23:53:48  <samu> also when building drive-through road stop on OWNER_NONE roads, that road won't suddenly become mine
23:54:14  <samu> the same doesn't happen with ship depot, dock
23:54:27  <samu> and oil rig
23:54:56  <samu> the canal becomes mine incorrectly
23:55:20  <samu> or becomes part of a misterious OWNER_NONE in case of oil rig
23:55:51  <samu> oops, mistake
23:56:23  <samu> it's the reverse for the case of oil rigs
23:57:50  <glx> oil rigs have no owner
23:58:09  <samu> yes i know, my mistake
23:58:40  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
23:58:44  <samu> it is taking away the owner of canals
23:58:53  <samu> that's what I meant to say
23:59:03  <glx> yes but it does it cleanly
23:59:50  <samu> what does that mean?

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