Log for #openttd on 6th March 2015:
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00:22:26  <chillcore> hello o/
00:35:25  <supermop> yo
00:36:56  <supermop> need to figure out a way to give the asphalt a messy edge
00:37:26  <supermop> where is slightly bleeds over onto the stones in the gutter
00:38:12  <supermop> now its just a crisp line between cobble stones and pavement
00:38:39  <ST2> please continue, couple more lines and it's a nice poem xD
00:38:52  <supermop> haha
00:39:18  <supermop> finally got a material for the rails that i am happy with
00:40:28  <chillcore> in 3d prog no idea
00:41:48  <chillcore> mind doing post-processing of exported pictures?
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00:42:44  <supermop> i guess i could try to do it with clone brush in PS
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00:44:01  <chillcore> you could model it all ...
00:45:00  <supermop> well thats wht im thinking but even that is going to hard to get to look ok
00:45:45  <supermop> i am thinking of drawing loose freeform squiggle that follows the edge of the pavement then extrude that
00:48:59  <supermop> so i have a little sliver that is straight line on one side and messy on the other, attach that to edge of asphalt
00:49:22  <supermop> it looks like i cant have roads work the way i want them to
00:50:14  <chillcore> do tramstracks provide their own?
00:50:32  <supermop> well tram cannot have it's own sidewalk i think
00:50:56  <chillcore> no that comes with the road
00:51:13  <supermop> so plain tram with sidewalk means drawing a road then drawing a tramtrack without road over it
00:51:21  <chillcore> any grf can override that so bad idea
00:51:39  <chillcore> you could do a roadgrf too ofcourse
00:51:49  <chillcore> and make it a desired dependency
00:51:53  <supermop> that means that 1) tram track without road must be same width as road
00:52:33  <chillcore> no idea ...
00:52:42  <chillcore> can check that
00:52:46  <supermop> and 2) sidewalks will always look the same between a street and an urban tramway
00:53:08  <supermop> and 3) tram out in country side will look the same as in city
00:53:15  <supermop> i think
00:54:06  <chillcore> how is it now?
00:54:14  <supermop> if i want to have rural tram have rails on ballast with grass, and urban tram to have concrete between the rails or nice cobble stones,
00:54:22  <supermop> i dont think i can do that
00:54:47  <supermop>
00:55:11  <supermop> in ogfx, there is plain tramway overlay - just grey rails with blue px between
00:55:15  <chillcore> welp me eyes
00:55:34  <supermop> and tramway with solid dirt between
00:56:04  <supermop> when you build plain tramway on its own it uses the dirt, whether it is in city or country
00:56:23  <chillcore> k
00:56:24  <supermop> if you build over road it uses the transparent overlay
00:56:46  <supermop> so you can draw the dirt as grass or fancy pavers or concrete
00:56:54  <chillcore> ye untill you fill it in
00:57:13  <chillcore> sstt you did not get that from me :P
00:57:15  <supermop> but then it will always be that way in city or county
00:57:23  <chillcore> ye
00:57:40  <chillcore> why would it not?
00:57:58  <supermop> no reason really, just limiting
00:58:09  <chillcore> if you put some flower beds in there the townspeeps will adore you
00:58:15  <chillcore> :P
00:58:21  <supermop> dirt or grass looks odd in city, but concrete or stone looks odd in country
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00:58:54  <chillcore> you've got two sets there ...
00:59:11  <supermop> two sets?
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00:59:38  <chillcore> one set is used on roads and the other on non roads
00:59:45  <supermop> yes
00:59:57  <chillcore> so ...
01:00:24  <supermop> but if you do like hungarian city tram track grf  you can  abuse the transparent part over overlay and draw paver stones on it
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01:01:05  <chillcore> ye which may look very doodoo-like if someone selects a raodset that clashes
01:01:11  <supermop> but then those stones overlay everything the run over including railroad at level crossing
01:01:27  <supermop> yeah
01:01:56  <chillcore> also toyland :P
01:01:59  <chillcore> laters
01:02:04  <chillcore> hihi
01:02:05  <supermop> later
01:03:51  <chillcore> what does it do now on levelcrossings? above or under the train rails?
01:04:00  <chillcore> the same will happen
01:04:56  <chillcore> you'll have train balast thet may clash badly
01:05:07  <chillcore> think different cobblesize and such
01:05:40  <chillcore> ^^^ balast and or concrete slabs
01:05:59  <supermop> right now from bottom to top it goes road, train, tram
01:06:27  <chillcore> it's your call but you can not predict what people will activate
01:07:03  <chillcore> yes
01:07:06  <supermop> well assume my grf provides both road graphics and tram
01:07:22  <supermop> so by default it will be my roads and my tramway
01:07:37  <chillcore> and ships somewhere in the middle ;)
01:07:40  <supermop> but if someone add another road grf after it in the list,
01:07:55  <supermop> then it will have a second road thing
01:08:01  <chillcore> yes untill someone has a radset after your combined set
01:08:10  <chillcore> or a tramset
01:08:11  <supermop> yeah
01:08:23  <chillcore> I like nutracks very much
01:08:33  <supermop> so i can make it look best with my grf only, but still ok with another grf
01:08:33  <chillcore> but first track is overwrittten
01:08:45  <chillcore> by the one I like too
01:08:54  <supermop> hmm
01:09:06  <chillcore> see what I mean
01:09:13  <chillcore> you can suggest ofcourse
01:09:27  <chillcore> or disable your own in case of meh
01:10:06  <supermop> yeah
01:10:12  <chillcore> that way 'if' people want to play with your set they need to have both
01:10:22  <chillcore> kinda silly if you askk me but
01:10:28  <chillcore> your call
01:10:43  <chillcore> I won't judge you if you do ;)
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01:11:19  <chillcore> wb
01:11:34  <supermop> why does my irc keep reconnecting
01:11:52  <chillcore> ghosts in the machine ...
01:12:02  <chillcore> lol
01:12:15  <supermop> anyway i want tram on street to have concrete between rails
01:12:30  <supermop> and street by itself to have no concrete
01:12:42  <chillcore> you can make that nice-ish looking
01:12:45  <supermop> so i will put concrete in the overlay
01:13:02  <supermop> hopefully level crossings still look ok
01:14:06  <chillcore> it'll be tight yeah ...
01:14:55  <supermop> next i want tram by itself to have gravel ballast and grass in country and suburbs, concrete in city. but that is currently impossible, so i'll make sprites but not use them unless someone makes roadtypes
01:15:14  <supermop> so country tram will also be concrete
01:15:27  <chillcore> if you keep between the rails it'll be fine
01:15:42  <chillcore> maybe you can even spill a bit here and there even
01:15:57  <supermop> yeah
01:16:18  <chillcore> but all the way to the border seems like a bad idea as it is no longer tramsprites then
01:16:29  <supermop> lastly i want the sidewalks to look good with city tram
01:16:35  <supermop> hmm
01:16:43  <chillcore> do that in a roadset
01:16:52  <supermop> yeah
01:16:59  <chillcore> you can do it as layer to see what gives
01:18:07  <chillcore> then for bananas you trigger the one with the other while coding them
01:18:13  <supermop> but what if i draw no sidewalk in road set - only shoulder of road and gutter/curb
01:18:26  <chillcore> or in bananas itself I dunno
01:18:34  <supermop> hmm how do i do that
01:19:06  <chillcore> them tiles go up to the houses
01:19:20  <chillcore> houses are designed to go up to the road
01:19:26  <chillcore> that simple
01:19:57  <supermop> yeah, but the sidewalk could be much skinnier than it is now
01:20:01  <chillcore> roadset has the sidewalk
01:20:05  <chillcore> your call
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01:23:22  <supermop> the monorail level crossing always looks so absurd
01:23:35  <supermop> like a giant concrete beam across the road
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01:35:16  <supermop> hmm modelling the squiggly edge manually looks ok actually
01:36:04  <chillcore> nice
01:36:50  <chillcore> in unity you could plot them around with a script
01:37:18  <supermop> hmm
01:37:19  <chillcore> then let them interact with gravity for a sec
01:37:59  <chillcore> cameras are easily set up
01:38:15  <chillcore> its getting them in the right place
01:38:22  <chillcore> anyhoo
01:38:25  <supermop> yeah?
01:38:59  <supermop> haha instead of gravel texture could i just put 1000s of rocks in the sky and see where they fall?
01:39:08  <chillcore> yeah
01:39:40  <chillcore> haha
01:40:23  <chillcore> I dabbled with it last year
01:40:36  <chillcore> made a tileset much like openttd has
01:40:45  <supermop> i actually need to learn some unreal stuff for work
01:40:56  <supermop> maybe i can do unity insteadd
01:42:02  <chillcore> spawned some terrain vary basic heightdistribution only -1, 0, - 1 with one diff max between next tile
01:42:27  <chillcore> but I did not get to orientating them correctly yet
01:42:40  <chillcore> got distracted and did something else
01:42:43  <chillcore> :P
01:42:50  <supermop> make a first-person 3d openttd
01:43:11  <supermop> to buy a train you have to walk to depot and buy it there
01:43:26  <supermop> drive to next town to set it's orders
01:43:52  <supermop> and if there is no road yet have to walk to where the road will be to build it
01:44:00  <chillcore> haha and you drive around in a zonda after a while
01:44:30  <chillcore> or better yet Lotus elise
01:44:43  <supermop> but then the construction workers are jealous and demand pay raise
01:45:09  <chillcore> entree 3D shooter :P
01:45:23  <supermop> also cannot drive your lotus to towns with no road connection yet
01:45:36  <supermop> land rover instead
01:45:50  <supermop> cut down trees with chainsaw
01:46:15  <supermop> want to raise land in ocean? stand there shovelling dirt into it for years
01:46:23  <chillcore> hmm ... never done that any of the msimulmators really
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01:47:44  <chillcore> realtime too ... the game wakes you up at 6 AM to milk cows and mow wheat:P
01:48:07  <chillcore> we should make this a suggestions topic
01:48:18  <supermop> or if you dont wake up and log in at 3 pm you get fired for being late to work
01:48:57  <chillcore> maybe we should keep this between us and do it in unity
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01:49:27  <supermop> haha
01:50:01  <chillcore> we could be rich ... "buy this game and you do not need a life anymore!! in fact you won't have timefor one" :P
01:51:53  <Pikkaphone> too many realisms
01:52:06  <Supercheese> Realism overflow
01:52:24  <Pikkaphone> Baldy will love it
01:52:55  <chillcore> XD
01:53:41  <supermop> well he wont be able to play as you will need to go a university in game for years to get a business degree, then work your way up a company, before you could ever negotiate buying out a competitor
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01:55:35  <supermop> ok well, if the minimum needed sprites for a minimum viable tramway set are the overlays and the basic tramways, i basically have that done
01:56:06  <supermop> set could just use default trolleywire and depots to start with
01:56:37  <supermop> and most of the work to do right now is on the road tiles - can just layover default roads for now
01:57:38  <supermop> just need to model the U turn
01:57:45  <supermop> which i think i will fake
01:58:23  <chillcore> arcs should be pretty easy no?
01:58:39  <supermop> instead of U i will model a Y-shaped shunt and not care if the tram looks ridiculous driving over it
01:58:51  <Pikkaphone> nice
01:59:04  <supermop> i have all the curves done now, hardest part is the points and frogs
01:59:11  <chillcore> hehe
01:59:12  <supermop> but now have those done as well
01:59:38  <supermop> if i steal frogs from one of the T junctions i can make the y easily
01:59:55  <Pikkaphone> also wires and poles are cluttery, draw them faintly or not at all imo. Not drawing them works for horse and steam trams too.
02:00:03  <supermop> yeah
02:00:37  <supermop> also here and many cities they string wire between buildings and dont even have poles
02:00:57  <supermop> its not high speed catenary either - just a thin loose wire
02:01:11  <Pikkaphone> the original poles and wires are the ugliest thing ever.
02:01:18  <supermop> low voltage
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02:01:42  <Pikkaphone> original/opengfx
02:01:49  <supermop> also further to my discussion yesterday, there should never be reflective highlights on the wires
02:02:14  <supermop> as it repeats every tile looking bad, and stands out too much
02:02:36  <Pikkaphone> tres hideous
02:02:44  <supermop> just a dark grey line
02:03:10  <Pikkaphone> mind you I don't think we ever had the long intercity lines in mind when we first made them
02:03:25  <supermop> tram wires?
02:03:39  <Pikkaphone> yes
02:03:54  <supermop> well before there are trams, you cant tell how people will use them
02:03:54  <Pikkaphone> they're not so repetitive snaking through the city
02:04:03  <Pikkaphone> true
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02:04:35  <supermop> if the tram has no straights longer than 3 tiles it looks okk
02:05:04  <Pikkaphone> I look forward to seeing your tram lines. :)
02:05:20  <supermop> can see the tracks in an hour or so if you want
02:05:28  <supermop> wires i don't know yet
02:06:00  <supermop> i'd love a tram shunt
02:06:26  <supermop> let trams reverse on a line with out turning off into a little stubby loop
02:07:35  <supermop> would be super hard i guess as tram would need to completely clear the shunt tile, know that it is clear, prevent following tram from entering shunt tile, and then reverse
02:07:57  <supermop> likewise a real end of line
02:08:49  <supermop> of course i guess trams could just drive through the following tram as they drive through other trams in curves
02:10:40  <supermop> what happens if the NE and NW edges of a tile protrude a few px? will it just overlap tile behind or cause trouble?
02:12:52  <chillcore> see ya later ;) good night
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02:22:45  <supermop> im off to coles to grab some food
02:34:24  <Pikkaphone> who knows re overlapping? suck it and see!
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03:18:46  <Eddi|zuHause> <Pikkaphone> who knows re overlapping? suck it and see! <-- perfect example of something where the individual words are fine, but the sentence does just not make any sense at all
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03:41:35  <Pikkaphone> eddi: "suck it and see" is an idiom what means "try it and see what happens"
03:46:18  <supermop> Pikkaphone: must be an australian thing, if you said that in the us you'd get odd looks indeed
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03:46:33  <Pikkaphone> British even.
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05:30:19  <supermop> hmm should the y be symetrical or off to one side?
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08:24:17  <chillcore> good morning all
08:31:10  <Taede> mornin
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08:48:43  <Wolf01> hi hi o/
08:49:29  <chillcore> o/ wolf
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08:52:46  <Wolf01> yesterday headache, tonight it came down and now I have pain in shoulder and back... I hope it doesn't arrive at the bottom or it will start to be funny
08:54:36  <chillcore> ooh that late allready ... time to finish coffee, grab flaptop and and go fix public pc ... eh ... put back in broken state I mean. :P
08:55:33  <chillcore> hehe ye you have to sit on thing wolf xD, get better soon ;)
08:55:36  <chillcore> bbl
08:55:47  <peter1138> 7/win 17
08:55:50  <peter1138> Damn
08:55:57  <chillcore> that thing*
08:56:01  <Wolf01> bye chill
08:56:50  <chillcore> ye win 7 pro ... but it is not that that is broken .... bootstrap joke is :sniff:
08:56:54  <chillcore> cyas o/
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09:01:30  <Celestar> good morning
09:02:41  <Wolf01> o/
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10:42:15  <Eddi|zuHause> <supermop> hmm should the y be symetrical or off to one side? upper case letter Y should be symmetrical, lower case letter y should be off to one side
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12:14:36  <supermop> yo
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13:16:52  <chillcore> o/
13:17:08  <chillcore>
13:17:25  <chillcore> so funny I stumbled upon this ...
13:17:49  <peter1138> What's funny about it?
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13:19:25  <chillcore> I had someone looking at me as I re-anabled everything I disabled yesterday ...
13:19:38  <chillcore> then showed him the diff with my laptop
13:20:28  <chillcore> after I pulled the HDD and used my USB to show him show files that do not belong on publc PCs
13:20:57  <chillcore> it  like pissing in someones shoes and tellng him the shit is gabage
13:20:59  <chillcore> :P
13:21:03  <chillcore> +r
13:21:29  <chillcore> they should be talking about it now ...
13:21:55  <chillcore> I left one step out to have may way wth their pc
13:22:06  <chillcore> but showed it on my laptop
13:22:14  <chillcore> instead :P
13:23:52  <chillcore> anyway I got a resonable explanation for why the things they are now
13:24:11  <chillcore> I showed them a better way ... up to them
13:40:09  <chillcore> besides disabling stuffs I also updated the OS yesterday which was overdue since last september, deleted a ton of crapware, including an online backup, a groupsfoto of some peeps ... etc
13:40:24  <chillcore> my time was not competely wasted ;)
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13:44:08  <chillcore> the kids that came after me ... first thing thye do is install flash and open a site that needs a password :/
13:44:43  <chillcore> that just games but ...
13:47:02  <chillcore> how many peeps have no access to internet at home worldwide?
13:48:58  <chillcore> I don' whanna be the white knight perse but ... 'we' are giving them free access to internet but no protection ... from eachother mainly
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13:49:23  <chillcore> that a lot of peeps that simply are unaware
13:50:10  <chillcore> can't blame them really ... people are used to their private devices ... if they have that even
13:51:17  *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
13:52:17  <chillcore> I am rambling
13:52:32  <chillcore> just gets me under my skin
13:55:11  <planetmaker> chillcore, I'd bet > 50%
13:55:33  <chillcore> my point exactly planetmaker ;)
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15:28:58  <Bobix> does anybody know of a newgrf that has a non-rail tile showing passengers waiting?
15:30:50  <Bobix> maybe newstations if i upgrade?
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15:34:27  <Terkhen> hello
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18:56:54  <andythenorth> o/
18:57:07  <Alberth> hi hi
18:57:22  <Alberth> just added the cargo multiplier patch
18:57:33  <andythenorth> I saw :)
18:58:19  <Alberth> someone is watching a few repositories :p
18:59:44  <Alberth> you also understood my :idea: smiley in the reply?
19:00:36  <Alberth> as in, consider the goal done on first delivery? :)
19:01:03  <andythenorth> I wondered at that
19:01:12  <andythenorth> similar to subsidies
19:01:35  <Alberth> hmm, indeed
19:01:41  <andythenorth> might be worth trying
19:01:48  <andythenorth> in principle I like having the amounts
19:01:56  <andythenorth> just deliver at least 1t
19:01:59  <andythenorth> is not as good
19:02:16  <andythenorth> amounts required affect the kind of route you build, whether you need to find an unused primary source etc
19:02:24  <Alberth> we can keep the goal until it's done
19:02:33  <andythenorth> if it’s just 1t, then use a plane and route from an existing source :P
19:02:40  <Alberth> but just always have N unstarted goals
19:04:50  <andythenorth> oic
19:05:06  * andythenorth understands now
19:05:27  <Alberth> only thinking aloud, but it seems nicer than to discard the goal at first delivery, I think
19:06:08  <Alberth> it means you never have to wait for goals to finish
19:06:43  <Alberth> maybe I don't have enough goals :p
19:07:35  <andythenorth> ffwd :P
19:08:48  <Alberth> hmm, never think of that :p
19:09:43  <Alberth> it's not that bad, I usually watch trains while waiting :)
19:12:42  <Alberth> 8pm friday evening, and already sleepy :p
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19:15:13  <frosch123> andy is featured on xkcd today :)
19:15:15  <andythenorth> quak
19:15:21  <frosch123> hola :)
19:15:34  <andythenorth> Alberth: I am bushed :P
19:15:34  <andythenorth> 4.30am two days in a row
19:16:19  <Alberth> that's a little early :)
19:17:06  <Alberth> xkcd :D
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19:20:57  <andythenorth> Hard Reboot?
19:21:06  <andythenorth> that looks like a standard web ops tactic tbh
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19:25:18  <andythenorth>
19:25:52  * peter1138 reboots andythenorth
19:26:06  <andythenorth> with a CD-ROM drive?
19:27:07  <andythenorth> can anyone reboot landscape generation?
19:28:45  <peter1138> Probably.
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19:31:54  <Wolf01> meh, you shouldn't leave me alone 2 days with 4 lego boxes...
19:32:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> did you mean "two months"? :p
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19:32:29  <Wolf01> 2 days
19:32:32  <andythenorth> what did you do?
19:32:44  <Wolf01> built 3 of them :P
19:32:50  <andythenorth> any good?
19:33:15  <Wolf01> yeah, the 42039 is really cool
19:33:26  <Wolf01> (the new 24 hours racing car)
19:34:29  <Wolf01> I also just finished to build the Benny's spaceship! and the Emmet'sconstruction mech
19:34:38  <frosch123> haha, someone opened a fs task today, which looked familar to me
19:34:54  <Eddi|zuHause> don't they all?
19:35:07  <frosch123> so i searched for the details, and found that there are 3 duplicates meanwhile :p
19:35:11  <Wolf01> bot of them have a nice amount of particular pieces, I think I'll purchase them again just for the pieces
19:35:33  <andythenorth> I might buy 42039
19:35:42  <andythenorth> I have the F1 and the last supercar
19:35:49  <andythenorth> dunno if it will be much different, but eh
19:35:53  <andythenorth> might keep it at work
19:36:05  <andythenorth> or build it and take it apart again :P
19:36:09  <peter1138> Looks spendy.
19:36:12  <Wolf01> the weekend is reserved for the 70810 - Capt. MetalBeard's Sea Cow
19:36:18  <andythenorth> there’s something weird about keeping lego built up
19:37:08  <andythenorth> but I have cupboards full of built up lego :P
19:37:25  <Wolf01> I'm planning to replace my entire bedroom furniture
19:38:09  <Wolf01> something like this
19:38:53  <Wolf01> nice
19:39:08  <Wolf01> it works for me
19:39:36  <Wolf01> this is the page
19:40:24  <Wolf01> the main problem is that I'm not really good with cad and 3D stuff :P
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19:47:23  <Eddi|zuHause> except that the room is like 5 times bigger than a "teenager" would have...
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19:47:59  <Wolf01> and mine is half of a standard teenager's one
19:48:42  <Wolf01> and I'm twice the age of the standard teenager
19:49:25  <frosch123> yeah, teenager never last long
19:49:47  <frosch123> i haven't seen any teenager lasting longer than 10 years
19:49:59  <Wolf01> except me
19:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause> 13-19 is 8 years
19:51:23  <frosch123> does a 10 year old count as teenager?
19:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> no
19:51:45  <frosch123> so, only 7 years
19:52:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i can't calculate :p
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20:12:15  <andythenorth> is it bed time?
20:12:24  <Wolf01> not yet
20:13:21  <frosch123> is it back-to-work time?
20:15:17  <Wolf01> if you want to... for me is "brush fangs and play a game time"
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20:22:34  <chillcore> is it time?
20:24:15  <frosch123> ah, i see, yesterday was full moon
20:24:46  <frosch123> how do you manage to type with those claws?
20:25:49  <Wolf01> manicure, a lot of manicure :P
20:27:06  <chillcore> wait what? you're not supposed to use your fore...head?
20:28:04  <frosch123> no, that is no ergonomic position
20:28:19  <frosch123> but that may change with touch screens
20:28:35  <frosch123> likely it's better to use a touch screen with the forehead than with the hands
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20:29:04  <frosch123> i would recommend using your nose though
20:29:10  <frosch123> it's more precise
20:29:29  <chillcore> hehe ... "the I am thinking comfortably, boss" stance
20:29:36  <chillcore> good point
20:30:13  <frosch123> use the tongue to perform multi-touch
20:32:05  <chillcore> hmm might be a nice app ...
20:33:33  <chillcore> "lick my frozen lolly" 15 mins for 1 euro ... then it melts
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20:34:23  <frosch123> chillcore: do you know "succulent" ?
20:35:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure nobody ever made an app that made you lick your phone...
20:35:22  <chillcore> that'd be a great name ye
20:35:36  <chillcore> I called it here ... time stamp for proof
20:35:48  <frosch123> chillcore: sorry, but what i mentioned exists :p
20:36:02  <frosch123> it's an actual name of a "game"
20:36:29  <frosch123> check yt, if noone is watching you, who might judge you for watching it :p
20:36:29  <chillcore> I can use another name ... does it include liking your phone for gameplay?
20:37:08  <chillcore> what platform?
20:37:21  <frosch123> no idea
20:37:57  <chillcore> dribble is taken?
20:39:16  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> check yt, if noone is watching you, who might judge you for watching it :p <-- google is always watching you
20:39:33  <chillcore> ye
20:39:53  <frosch123> does it judge me?
20:40:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it judges what else you might be interested in
20:40:38  <frosch123> i think google has quite a good opinion of me compared to the rest of the internet :p
20:41:02  <chillcore> ah that is what it looks like
20:41:21  <chillcore> I watched a review without images
20:42:06  <chillcore> watched == heard noise in the background
20:42:35  <chillcore> haha
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20:45:06  <chillcore> I really hope peeps do not spend money on that
20:45:21  <frosch123> it's pay-what-you-want
20:45:31  <chillcore> hmm ... ok
20:45:36  <frosch123> minimum is 0 :)
20:45:38  <chillcore> -1000
20:45:42  <chillcore> lol
20:46:59  <chillcore> I dunno ... my first flash game was this vector mouse that ran a way from the mouse
20:47:10  <chillcore> I called it catch the mouse
20:47:22  <chillcore> I should have it somewhere still
20:47:51  <frosch123> you are chasing a mouse with a mouse?
20:48:03  <frosch123> would make more sense if it was an elephant
20:48:21  <chillcore> lol actually it is the mousepointer chasing the mouse
20:48:25  <chillcore> details ...
20:49:21  <frosch123> mouse and mouse-pointer are identified via voodoo
20:49:26  <frosch123> they are the same entity
20:49:46  <chillcore> but I had a moving background :P
20:51:20  <chillcore> I should put that half baked interactive html/JavaScript tutorial online some day
20:51:30  <chillcore> just for shizz and giggles
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20:53:20  * andythenorth bed
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20:55:00  <chillcore> nothing too fancy mind you ... just stuffs I made while learning
20:55:31  <frosch123> that does not matter :) you only need luck to make millions with it
20:55:58  <chillcore> there is so many stuffs missing and it is outdated
20:56:16  <chillcore> it has working axamples and you click throught to see simplified code
20:56:38  <chillcore> a table with all safe colours and such
20:57:46  <frosch123> safe colours? as in 256-colour mode with shared palette?
20:57:52  <chillcore> uhu
20:58:08  <frosch123> then it's old indeed :)
21:00:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i never even tried to make flash
21:00:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i learned how to make java applets once
21:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but i forgot all of it
21:00:54  <chillcore> kinda fun ... that too can be fun
21:01:02  <peter1138> COLOUR 9
21:01:11  <peter1138> ^ red/cyan flash
21:01:31  <chillcore> you can import flash in director ... then it becomes really fun
21:01:36  <Eddi|zuHause> is that like "character 7" makes a beep?
21:02:41  <peter1138> Nah, ^G = BEL(L) is rather more standard.
21:03:25  <Eddi|zuHause> print(chr(7)) (or print('#7
21:03:30  <Eddi|zuHause> ')
21:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> )
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21:05:51  <frosch123> oi, just noticed: octal numbers are actually usable up to number 7
21:06:28  <chillcore> hehe
21:07:27  <chillcore> some languages did/do not use 0 ... so you can do 8
21:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the only place where i have ever seen an application for octal numbers is linux file access rights
21:09:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and i never really use them that way
21:09:58  <Eddi|zuHause> more like "chomod a+x"
21:10:10  <Alberth> cheating :p
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21:10:43  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that has the benefit of leaving the other bits unchanged :p
21:10:59  <Alberth> :)
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21:12:52  <Eddi|zuHause> especially for things like "u+w", you don't want to care whether the file has +x or not
21:14:25  <frosch123> i only ever used 600, 644 or 755
21:14:43  <chillcore> that ... or chown
21:15:13  <frosch123> hmm,not true, i used group-access with group-sticky bit
21:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose the group bits are more used on actual multi user systems
21:17:00  <chillcore> you want them on your single use pc too
21:17:22  <chillcore> some progs go great lenghts for control
21:17:36  <chillcore> it not always hackers
21:18:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the only times i ever need to deal with groups is when "this user is not part of the 'access the sound hardware' group" errors occur
21:18:09  <chillcore> or co-users
21:18:17  <frosch123> i also have multiple accounts on my personal system
21:18:29  <chillcore> eg. pc for your kids
21:18:29  <frosch123> e.g. a "devzone" user with the devzone wine setup :)
21:18:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i never ever ran a program as not-me (except for root)
21:19:02  <frosch123> there are also some chroots, not sure whether they count as separate users
21:20:16  <chillcore> progs should never have root completely
21:20:46  <chillcore> higher the some users sure ... but not match root
21:20:53  <chillcore> then*
21:21:38  <Alberth> hmm, what's the point of root if nobody can use it ?  :)
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21:21:49  <chillcore> you can use it
21:22:13  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i suppose i could set up a user for "edit /etc files". but why bother?
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21:23:11  <chillcore> your kid can have access to games but not sytem files
21:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause> you just get lost in "well, this needs now also acces to that" problems
21:23:39  <chillcore> normal progs can do deal with user dir just fine
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21:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: but that's what a normal login already does.
21:23:53  <chillcore> except for installing
21:24:11  <chillcore> ye
21:24:33  <chillcore> but some progs override your settings as root
21:24:52  <chillcore> they should not be able to
21:24:55  <Eddi|zuHause> what?
21:25:29  <chillcore> eg. steam files
21:25:51  <Eddi|zuHause> steam runs happily as user here
21:26:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it just needs the ability to update its own files
21:26:07  <chillcore> disable cache in config
21:26:12  <chillcore> writeaccess
21:26:19  <chillcore> start steam ...
21:27:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you're talking about
21:27:29  <chillcore> it is just an example of a prog overwriting your settings ;)
21:27:38  <chillcore> just 1
21:27:40  <chillcore> ;)
21:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause> what settings?
21:28:21  <chillcore> in your steam folder you have a config folder inside cache folder
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21:28:58  <chillcore> deny writeaccsess on that folder, start steam and check again
21:29:31  <Eddi|zuHause> so, you complain that steam accesses its own configuration files?
21:30:23  <chillcore> it does so as superuser ... while it works fine without that folder for me?
21:30:39  <chillcore> anyhoo
21:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't understand what you're trying to say
21:31:10  <Alberth> write access on a folder means you cannot create or remove files
21:31:13  <Eddi|zuHause> how is setting back the access rights to a folder you own "superuser"?
21:33:56  <Terkhen> good night
21:42:17  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i think chillcore is hinting at a steam bug, which does and rm -rf / or rm -rf ~, if some files are missing or inaccessible
21:43:17  <frosch123> i do not remember which, but everyone was surprised how calm the guy was, who discovered it :p
21:43:19  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yeah, i have seen something like that. but what that does not have anything to do with "superuser"
21:45:08  <chillcore> If I set something with root I expect that not to change?
21:45:32  <chillcore> if a program then decides to exit screaming that is fine
21:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i really can't decide whether you're just arguing for arguments sake, or whether you have a total misconception about how those access rights work
21:47:56  <chillcore> not argueing ... it was about multiple accounts ;)
21:48:06  <frosch123> chillcore: btw. you can configure vms to not store modifications in the image file, so they revert everything on reboot
21:48:19  <glx> chillcore: you also changed owner of the folder ?
21:48:50  <chillcore> in windows yes
21:49:01  <chillcore> linux not yet tried
21:49:19  <chillcore> I wanna keep my KSP :P
21:50:18  <glx> because modifying rights as root won't prevent modifying them as owner of the folder
21:50:45  <chillcore> I think they just delete and remake
21:51:06  <chillcore> I emty the folder after steam start and disable it
21:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> -w does not prevent removal
21:51:17  <chillcore> works fine utill exit
21:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> but i have still no clue what you are actually talking about
21:52:51  <glx> I guess steam does all in its install folder like on windows
21:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know what steam does internally. all i know is that there is a "library", and i can open secondary ones
21:55:02  <chillcore> hehe
21:55:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and the library is in my home dir
21:55:18  <Eddi|zuHause> where it belongs
21:56:15  <chillcore> still need to finish Myst 5 ... XD
21:56:23  <glx> additionnal library is a nice feature when you add more storage space
21:56:44  <chillcore> ye
21:58:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but i just moved my whole steam folder and symlinked it...
22:00:07  <glx> no need to move anything now
22:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause> my /home is on the SSD, and is only 40GB. i try to keep all bigger stuff (like wine and steam) off there completely
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23:57:34  <supermop> yo
23:57:49  <Oddingar>  hello

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