Log for #openttd on 21st March 2015:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:15  <chillcore> then now in your terrforming patch
00:00:23  <Samu> inclined slopes can also be terraformed, you now
00:00:35  <Samu> they can become inclined again afterwards or flat
00:01:47  <Samu> then there's the surrounding tiles which are also affected, and I have no idea how to check these
00:02:27  <Samu> like they're chained together
00:02:40  <Samu> sorry i dunno how to explain this
00:02:48  <Samu> it's hard to visualize it
00:03:36  <Samu> allowing terraform is dependant on the surrounding tiles
00:03:44  <Samu> not just the initial tile
00:03:47  <Samu> and the final tile
00:04:02  <Samu> pff sorry
00:04:08  <Samu> i'm getting depressed
00:04:23  <chillcore> if (IsSteepSlope) { error; } else { if (river) MakeRiver(bla); }
00:04:32  <chillcore> if that don't wor then I do not now
00:05:06  <Samu> i have a feeling that will place rivers on all affected tiles
00:05:09  <Samu> lol
00:05:11  <Samu> ok let me see
00:06:14  <Samu> ah i have to bring the bool down there too
00:06:26  <chillcore> no
00:06:42  <chillcore> that bool is just defining it
00:06:56  <chillcore> you could bring it down one line
00:07:36  <chillcore> but you dont include it in the if else
00:10:38  <Samu> bool river = HasTileWaterClass(tile) && GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_RIVER;
00:10:42  <Samu> 		DoClearSquare(tile);
00:10:47  <Samu> 	if (IsWaterTile(tile) && IsRiver(tile)) {
00:10:53  <Samu> 		if (IsSteepSlope(GetTileSlope(tile)))  {
00:10:57  <Samu> 			return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_LAND_SLOPED_IN_WRONG_DIRECTION);
00:11:03  <Samu> 		else {
00:11:09  <Samu> 	if (river) MakeRiver(tile, Random());
00:11:13  <Samu> this?
00:11:21  <chillcore> samu seriously
00:12:14  <chillcore> where does this come from    if (IsWaterTile(tile) && IsRiver(tile)) {
00:12:54  <Samu> it's clearing rivers when terraforming
00:13:02  <Samu> fail
00:13:03  <ST2> from my side, not knowing the functions, I only see opening { and not being closed
00:13:13  <chillcore> ye so don'rt check for that if you kow there is none
00:13:13  <Samu> they are closed
00:13:19  <ST2> ok
00:13:33  <chillcore> <chillcore> if (IsSteepSlope) { error; } else { if (river) MakeRiver(bla); }
00:13:47  <chillcore> do you see anything related to what you posted?
00:17:12  <Samu> i removed that part
00:17:15  <chillcore> read here then
00:17:33  <Samu> if (IsWaterTile(tile) && IsRiver(tile)) { is removed
00:17:41  <chillcore> yay
00:18:51  <Samu> this is letting me terraform river tiles, they're glitchy yet, but once a steepslope is formed, no river is restored there
00:19:20  <chillcore> time for cake then
00:19:30  <chillcore> after how many hours?
00:19:42  <Supercheese> Is there a way to figure out which engine ID a vehicle added by a newgrf uses, other than decompiling and looking at the NFO?
00:19:45  <Samu> no river is restored = a bareland tile
00:19:51  <Samu> is what it shows
00:19:58  <Samu> it is terraformed
00:20:27  <Samu> i have a flat river
00:21:04  <Samu> i raise one corner -> glitchy river is restored into them
00:21:39  <Samu> I raise it again -> river is removed
00:21:51  <Samu> bad behaviour :(
00:22:42  <chillcore> it fixed river on steep slopes ... you need to continue with more checs but now you now how
00:23:05  <Samu> how? it is removing the river... it's worse
00:23:57  <Samu> if it is to restore a river on a steepslope, it just doesn't restore, and leaves the bareland tile there instead
00:24:33  <Samu> it is still terraforming
00:25:02  <chillcore> you can use newgrf dev tools somehow supercheese? otherwse I would not know
00:25:38  <Supercheese> they have a lot of information, but not the engine ID sadly
00:26:08  <Samu> i have to play tetris with this
00:26:20  <Samu> hate*
00:26:44  <chillcore> hmm ...supercheese I do not now really
00:26:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: i usually decompile the grf and look for the string
00:27:14  <Supercheese> yeah, it's really tough to match the vehicle name string with its engine ID
00:27:16  <Samu> didn't prevent terraforming at all :(
00:27:18  <Supercheese> I don't really know what to look for
00:27:20  <Samu> I am sad, sorry
00:27:38  <Supercheese> NFO is inscrutable
00:27:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: the engine ID should be in the action 4
00:27:56  <Samu> it prevented the river to be restored instead
00:28:19  <chillcore> it should not prevent that samu ... yes on steep slopes cause that is all you check
00:28:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: format is something like <trains> <action4> <number of vehicles affected> <id of the first vehicle affected> <data>
00:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: for details, check the wiki
00:29:56  <Supercheese> Hmm
00:30:53  <chillcore> try raising twwo corners samu that is a sloope that is not steep but normal
00:31:22  <chillcore> tiles with one corner rased should not have rivers neither
00:31:28  <chillcore> so normal behaviour
00:31:56  <Samu> those are inclinedslopes, not steepslopes
00:32:02  <chillcore> wharever
00:32:13  <chillcore> rivers on flatland and normal slopes
00:32:16  <chillcore> else no
00:33:23  <Samu> alright, testing
00:33:37  <Supercheese> Oh neat, you were right
00:33:42  <Supercheese> got things working, thanks
00:34:33  <Samu> nice chillcore, with inclinedslopes it is doing what you're telling me
00:34:38  <Samu> not with steepslopes
00:34:46  <Samu> i raise two corners
00:34:53  <Samu> it restores them
00:35:04  <chillcore> no kidding holmes :P
00:35:14  <Samu> i raise 1 corner it leaves 2 bareland tiles
00:35:29  <chillcore> yes norlmal behaviour
00:35:52  <Samu> gah
00:35:59  <Samu> still not quite there
00:36:57  <chillcore> what happens if you raise then next corner on that tile with one corner up alreay
00:37:34  <Samu> raising 1 corner sometimes leaves 1 bareland, sometimes 2, sometimes 0
00:37:40  <Samu> something's amiss
00:37:59  <chillcore> then something needs fixing
00:38:12  <chillcore> you know how now and where
00:38:21  <chillcore> good luck and have fun
00:38:43  <chillcore> don't forget to take a breaksie from time to time
00:38:58  <chillcore> carodist and MHL took about 5 years each
00:39:17  <chillcore> hmm MHL is still in the works
00:39:28  <chillcore> make that 6 and a bit then
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00:40:10  <Samu> i need to raise twice to actually terraform, i dont get this
00:41:28  <chillcore> me neither ... I do know that tomorrow I will be tuning all day long so that by the evening hopefully terrain generation in trunk is fixed
00:41:43  <chillcore> I could have been done today but ... oh well
00:41:53  <Samu> sorry about that
00:42:07  <chillcore> noone forced me :)
00:42:58  <chillcore> but yeah I want this light version in shape tomorrow then reviewing ... the 1st is aproaching
00:43:29  <chillcore> I totally expect 1 patch out of 4 to be rejected
00:43:31  <Samu> "tiles with one corner rased should not have rivers neither"
00:43:34  <chillcore> hehe
00:43:35  <Samu> what do u mean with this
00:44:00  <chillcore> some magic values I deem important and other peeps do not
00:44:32  <chillcore> I am not going to cry over it ... It is the second or third time I will be tryiing to sneak em in :P
00:44:53  <chillcore> they just make terrain nicer IHMO
00:45:01  <chillcore> bit more water
00:45:04  <Samu> if only there could be an easy way to demonstrate what's happening
00:45:10  <Samu> other than twitch
00:45:23  <chillcore> bit more interesting coast
00:45:35  <Samu> speaking of coasts
00:45:40  <chillcore> I deleted a define that was only used once
00:45:52  <chillcore> and map init at level 0 instead of -32k
00:45:54  <Samu> rivers on coasts are glitchy
00:46:14  <chillcore> those things we'll see
00:46:32  <chillcore> the other three things are more important
00:46:42  <chillcore> lower generated height
00:46:58  <chillcore> two arrays for perlin noise params
00:47:06  <chillcore> and retuning those
00:52:41  <chillcore> eddi: if you do not mind having a quick look ... do you like screenshot 45 in my topic better?
00:54:15  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: i looked at it earlier, it's quite nice, but for "very smooth" it's still a bit noisy
00:55:43  <chillcore> ok. a bit or a bit much? and thanks for the feedback
00:58:03  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a difference between these two?
00:58:27  <chillcore> ye I can make that smooth or I can make that rough
00:58:40  <chillcore> and then the rest accordingly ;)
01:01:30  <chillcore> afterwards there will be custom settings via the gui so peeps can do whatever they please
01:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it could probably pass as smooth
01:02:14  <chillcore> untill then ... me I like my pimpled terrain so not valid opinion hehe
01:02:38  <chillcore> smooth and a half it is ;)
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01:12:22  <chillcore> <Samu> "tiles with one corner rased should not have rivers neither"
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01:12:51  <chillcore> by this I mean that they will be just as glitchy as they are on stepp slopes
01:13:17  <chillcore> just trust me on this I do not feel like explaining foundations to you nor cliffs
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01:13:35  <chillcore> way too soon and would only confuse you even more
01:15:40  <chillcore> also not sure that I even could explain if I wanted too :P
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01:15:49  <chillcore> hmm ...
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01:21:44  <chillcore> I wonder how samu will react the day he tries something difficult ...
01:22:13  <chillcore> or he gets a job and the boss tells him he could do better ...
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01:31:43  <chillcore> good night all o/
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02:42:52  <supermop> hi
02:45:42  <Pikka> hi
02:51:21  <supermop> hows it going up north?
03:06:34  <supermop> hmm maybe i need to halve this local slammer service
03:07:21  <supermop> now that the express is running, there are usually about 40-60 people waiting for the local at each stop just before it gets there
03:07:45  <supermop> might not need a 3 railcar/2 carriage train every 40 days
03:11:57  <ST2> make quality service: a wagon for 15 ppl, with free wireless and enough privacy - people love it xD
03:16:04  <supermop> haha negative cargo decay - the service is so good the passengers are angry if you arrive at the destination too quickly
03:17:43  <ST2> as I said: quality service ^^
03:18:26  <Pikka> it's going alright. :) gotta head out soon. Was just working out the stats for some of your trams.
03:18:30  * Pikka bbl
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03:33:44  <supermop> pikka sorry i can compile those if you prefer
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04:47:38  <supermop> shuttling my spare chinook around makes me wish i had a pair of N gauge class 20s
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07:21:00  <Supercheese> Ah, one of the best parts of a game, following a train as it makes its way across your entire network
07:21:19  <Supercheese> watching the fruits of your labor
07:26:13  <NGC3982> Indeed. That never get's old.
07:27:52  <supermop> i just did that with a NG train going up switchbacks to a bauxite mine unfortunately spawned on top of a mhl mountain
07:28:20  <Supercheese> oh jeez, I built the tracks to steep over this hill
07:28:26  <Supercheese> steamers struggling to make it up
07:28:37  <Supercheese> maybe I should dual-head them
07:28:46  <Supercheese> too*
07:30:04  <supermop> i love being strapped for cash, so having to send my spare shunter to other part of the network to pull a different train over there
07:30:35  <Supercheese> I hate being strapped for cash, so  I use the money cheat ;)
07:30:59  <Supercheese> here it goes in the 53-tile-long tunnel
07:31:14  <Supercheese> especially nice to watch since I have the Show Vehicles in Tunnels patch
07:33:22  <supermop> 5 years into this game and have almost never had more than 10,000,000 yen in the bank
07:33:32  <supermop> just enough to buy two slammers
07:33:53  <supermop> but my local trains are 3 slammers so have needed to gradually assemble them
07:34:32  <supermop> may switch those to a little bear pulling coaches
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07:44:01  <V453000> asdf
07:50:19  <supermop> lkjh
08:06:48  <Alberth> drbg
08:09:46  <supermop> i've managed to spoil a perfectly good looking station in a valley
08:10:09  <supermop> but now the branch line can continue onto the mainline to the south
08:11:22  <supermop> and i can gradually change the schedule so that the eastern branch becomes the mainline
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08:43:05  <Terkhen> good morning
08:44:06  <Alberth> moin
08:46:04  <Rubidium> moin
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09:22:32  <chillcore> good morning all
09:24:58  <supermop> hi chillcore
09:25:29  <chillcore> hey supermop
09:26:07  <chillcore> supermop: have a look at r27000?
09:27:32  <chillcore> don't know how to make dorpsgek spit out the log here ...
09:29:22  <chillcore> phone brb
09:34:35  <chillcore> supermop: but I can copy it ...
09:34:41  <chillcore> (svn r27200) -Feature/Fix [FS#6260]: [NewGRF] Add Misc. GRF Feature Flag 6 to enable the second rocky tile set.
09:40:26  * chillcore kills phone ... it saterday and just woke up
09:42:27  <__ln__> oh, here it's saturday, not saterday
09:43:16  <chillcore> hehe ye right ... zaterdag ... did not even notice that ... coffee yay
09:43:24  <chillcore> MOAR coffee
09:46:58  <chillcore> more peeps should learn frutchlichs ... (french dutch and enlish mangled for the not frutchlish speaking peeps)
09:47:00  <chillcore> :P
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09:49:12  <Wolf01> o/
09:50:05  <chillcore> hello wolf
09:51:37  <chillcore> Anyhoo all kidding aside ... does anyone know of some more things that are not correct/borked/need improvement after MHL was introduced?
09:52:30  <peter1138> English people tend to have enough difficulty with just English...
09:53:02  <chillcore> I am pretty much done with my tgen light patch, except for some final tunning of the params.
09:53:53  <chillcore> I posted v0.9 in my first post of the TGP params topic for reviewing.
09:54:32  <chillcore> I ill be makeing some adjustments today and should be done later today but functionality/syntax should not change no more
09:55:18  <chillcore> peter1138: so true, I see that remark a lot that foreigners write english better then native speakers
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09:57:19  <Alberth> lots of things are in need of improvement after the introduction of MHL
09:57:36  <Alberth> most of them were in need of improvement before introducing MHL as well
09:59:07  <chillcore> yes indeed Alberth: terrain generation at least should be better now ... read more playable even with higher/larger generated maps
09:59:13  <chillcore> also desert is fixed
09:59:36  <chillcore> I threw out that depenced on max height setting
10:00:04  <chillcore> now it checks for highest generated tile at mapgen and tropic forest starts at a quarter of that
10:00:18  <chillcore> after that it does not change no more
10:00:26  <chillcore> ^^^ executive decision
10:01:18  <chillcore> in regards of the first patch of tgen light ... feel free to reject that part ... I insist that it makes terrain generation better
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10:01:41  <chillcore> but it is not needed perse and I will not push for it ;)
10:01:56  <chillcore> your (devs) call on that
10:03:18  <chillcore> coasts are nicer (better shaped), water is nicer, map init is at levell 0 instead of -32k
10:03:24  <chillcore> stuffs like that
10:03:30  <Alberth> k
10:04:13  <Alberth> you seem to have a much better grasp of things in this area than me :)
10:04:43  <chillcore> I have a lot of feedback to fall back on thanks to bugpack
10:04:55  <Alberth> :)
10:05:00  <chillcore> I will not claim to know everything
10:05:11  <chillcore> cause I don't
10:05:21  <Alberth> :D
10:05:44  <Alberth> I mostly find I know only so little ;)
10:06:11  <chillcore> same here but don't feel bad about it
10:06:37  <chillcore> it is scientfically proven that the more you learn and know in a field the more you feel lke that
10:06:57  <chillcore> not my words ^^^
10:07:17  <Alberth> oh, I can imagine that :)
10:07:24  <juzza1> you need to know what you don't know
10:07:49  <chillcore> ye unless you know shizz then you think you know it all :P
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10:08:50  <Alberth> I think it's a difference in focus. If you want to improve, you focus on things you don't know. Suddenly there are lots of such things then
10:09:08  <chillcore> indeed
10:09:20  <Alberth> obviously, people that are improving themselves know in general more than people that don't
10:12:38  <chillcore> giong to do some tuning in the perlin noise params
10:13:18  <chillcore> for large maps ... very smooth will become slooth and a half and th rest accordingly
10:13:23  <Alberth> I have a similar experience when writing a large program. I constantly work on things that don't work yet. So for the outside, I build a program, incrementally adding new things, while for me, I am finished when I run out of things that don't work.
10:14:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i don't think that "improve yourself" is the actual cause, though. the effect can often be observed in people that are experts in a field, when they are talking about things outside their field of expertise
10:15:05  <chillcore> small maps are a bit too boring still ...
10:15:14  <Alberth> Eddi: good point
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10:35:17  <Alberth> quak
10:35:28  <frosch123> hai :)
10:36:21  <chillcore> o/
10:36:22  <Wolf01> o/
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10:38:04  <Wolf01> is it even possible I forget how to write code on weekends?
10:38:39  <chillcore> selective memory loss is a thing yes
10:38:57  <chillcore> my aunt calls it her chinese memory ;P
10:39:19  <Alberth> I usually have the problem at monday morning.. what was I doing last week again?  :)
10:39:26  <chillcore> ^^ dont ask me why she does
10:40:20  <Wolf01> I suspect it has something related to chinese quality products
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10:43:17  <chillcore> ye that and she sais "talk in this ear cause that one is connected to my chinese memory"
10:43:29  <chillcore> she is partly deaf on one side
10:43:59  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe she's racist :p
10:44:03  <Wolf01> I'm trying to create an easy to use interface to help my mother calculate things related to sewing, it's a sort of a grid calculator web designers use for websites... I can't even trigger a click event -.-
10:44:17  <chillcore> Also chinese peeps are too polite and will not always say what they think straight up
10:44:24  <chillcore> kinda a cultural thing?
10:44:47  <chillcore> I don't recall her ever making racist remarks ...
10:45:05  <Eddi|zuHause> then maybe you're racist :p
10:45:15  <chillcore> more jokingly like between dutchies and belgians
10:45:42  <chillcore> hehe Eddi
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10:46:21  <peter1138> Chinese Whispers?
10:46:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose that's like discussing differences between Köln and DÌsselorf
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10:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause> or New York and New Jersey
10:47:38  <chillcore> Chinese whispers doesn't ring a bell peter1138.
10:47:46  <chillcore> yeah eddi something like that
10:48:03  <chillcore> that is hardly racism is it?
10:50:15  <Wolf01> oh, wait, caffeine kicked in, now the code works!
10:50:37  <chillcore> :P
10:51:44  <frosch123> chillcore: it's called "Stillepost" in german, so you see english is far more racist :p
10:53:46  <chillcore> reading wiki in german ...
10:54:48  <chillcore> ye kinda that
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11:08:36  <frosch123> Sylf: english has grflangid 0x01
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12:24:04  <Samu> hi
12:26:07  <chillcore> o/
12:26:16  <ST2> \o
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12:53:30  <chillcore> Yay ... I see two birdies in the back now ... one sitting on now compketed nest and the other one attacking anything that moves in the immediate surroundings
12:53:44  <chillcore> but not attacking me because I has the cookies :P
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12:54:02  <chillcore> too bad they are camera-shy
12:54:18  <chillcore> too shiny I thingk
12:55:05  <chillcore> and my typing is picobello again ...
12:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> try one of those animal cameras that just sit there and record on a loop, and when something interesting happens you press a button and it saves the last minute it recorded
12:56:45  <frosch123> so, they did not yet figure out, that your cookies are only an investment to get a breakfast egg?
12:56:56  <chillcore> hmm ye I should have  something like that on ipad ... eddi
12:57:21  <chillcore> hehe frosh ... "merels" produce too small eggs
12:58:11  <chillcore> her I can aproach to about half a meter now
12:58:18  <chillcore> then she panics
12:58:36  <Eddi|zuHause> just think about this: for each human on the planet, there exists one chicken in a cage somewhere
12:58:58  <Eddi|zuHause> laying one egg per day
12:59:00  <chillcore> he is just jealous and tries to intimidate me from time to time
12:59:25  <chillcore> ye indeed enough food for a day eddi
12:59:32  <chillcore> sober meal but yeah
12:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is 7 Mrd chickens
13:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and 99% of those in cages barely bigger than themselves
13:01:01  <chillcore> ye :(
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13:03:13  <Samu> i'm messing with the idea of permanent rivers
13:03:47  <chillcore> you mean still :P
13:04:12  <Samu> permanent and non-terraformable, really permanent
13:04:12  <chillcore> without terraforming them? or ... ?
13:04:19  <chillcore> ah ok
13:04:33  <chillcore> ye that would be a nice thing for trunk
13:04:44  <chillcore> but without all the fluff then
13:04:56  <Samu> it's done
13:04:59  <Samu> but
13:05:18  <Samu> I dunno, building a canal on river makes less sense now
13:05:41  <chillcore> hmm not really
13:05:55  <chillcore> you do want the option to connect canals to rivers
13:06:05  <chillcore> or make rivers canals indeed
13:06:13  <Alberth> why?
13:06:24  <chillcore> why not?
13:06:38  <Samu> it is a bit redundant
13:06:46  <chillcore> I have my setting to produce really long rivers
13:06:54  <Alberth> it complicates matter in detecting which canals may be removed
13:06:55  <Samu> if the river is permanent, what's the point of building a canal on it
13:07:09  <chillcore> true alberth
13:07:25  <Samu> that part is done too
13:07:34  <chillcore> to straighten it out samu and provide a shorter patch
13:07:39  <chillcore> if wanted
13:07:47  <chillcore> but whatever is fine for me
13:08:01  <chillcore> as long as I have the option to connect canals to rivers still
13:08:10  <Samu> i tried to make canals unable to be built on rivers
13:08:18  <Samu> the error says already built
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13:08:24  <Samu> not really the correct error
13:08:32  <Samu> but it's what I could get it to do
13:09:13  <Samu> let me re-check code
13:09:25  <Alberth> magic bulldozer still works?
13:09:39  <Samu> ah yes, i had to edit that part in
13:09:57  <Samu> had to include some cheat.file or something liek that
13:10:27  <chillcore> min_river_length = 30;  river_route_random = 5
13:11:05  <chillcore> makes for some really cool deltas when they connect and wind and ...
13:11:10  <Samu> i just screwed something though
13:11:20  <Samu> i mixed several patches together
13:11:28  <Samu> and now I want to un-apply one of them
13:11:52  <Samu> do you know how i can do this without having to edit the code out
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13:13:19  <Samu> well, i'll re-download trunk again then re-write the code
13:13:27  <Samu> brb
13:13:37  <chillcore> re-download trunk why?
13:13:52  <Samu> because i mixed several patches together :(
13:16:39  <chillcore> ye so ... copy paste your folder and revert one
13:16:47  <chillcore> all that traffic
13:17:00  <chillcore> I have 1 clean checkout of each flavour
13:17:04  <chillcore> 1 single
13:17:17  <chillcore> and about 200 folders of copys
13:17:22  <chillcore> on various HDDs
13:17:45  <peter1138> git checkout
13:17:54  <chillcore> and clone hg
13:18:00  <peter1138> fuck hg
13:18:04  <chillcore> hehe
13:19:18  <chillcore> git is cool to though
13:19:43  <ST2> let me leave here a great 2 lines
13:19:44  <ST2> [13:18:49] <@ttd-srv99> Morpheus (Pink): actually openttd is 4d
13:19:44  <ST2> [13:18:57] <@ttd-srv99> Morpheus (Pink): you forgot time
13:19:57  <ST2> someone got it right xD
13:20:03  <chillcore> 3.5 D then :P
13:20:23  <chillcore> wrong wrong wrong nananananana
13:20:26  <frosch123> ST2: 5 dimensions, you forgot the version
13:20:32  <ST2> BATMAN
13:20:43  <Samu> here's what I call Global Patch, a mix of several stuff added together, now I have to edit some parts out
13:24:18  <chillcore> hmm samu if that is giving you troubs ... try reading/splitting this one then ...
13:24:46  <chillcore> the complete version patch *end shameless plug*
13:26:39  <Samu> gee
13:27:07  <chillcore> it started small
13:27:14  <ST2> frosch123: version is there, but I understand your "dimension" point :)
13:28:44  <Samu> i must ask, what is preferible
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13:29:11  <Samu> allow canal to be built on rivers, knowing that rivers can't be demolished anyway
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13:29:51  <Samu> or forbit canals to be builr on rivers, knowing that rivers can't be demolished anyway
13:30:17  <Xaroth|Work> latter?
13:30:20  <Samu> rivers are permanent
13:30:26  <Samu> canals are not
13:30:32  <Xaroth|Work> so latter
13:30:50  <Samu> but canals can be reverted to rivers
13:30:59  <chillcore> just start with rivers not being able to be demolished and not terraformed neither
13:30:59  <Xaroth|Work> in that case, first
13:31:01  <Samu> yet it's just kinda pointless
13:31:36  <Samu> good idea
13:31:48  <Samu> start with rivers not being able to be demolished and not terraformed neither
13:31:59  <Samu> doing that before I get lost again
13:32:14  <chillcore> and peeps can build canals on rivers now so you'd better have a good reason to forbif it in the future
13:32:18  <chillcore> just my 2cc
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13:33:40  <chillcore> tiles with canls can not be terraformed anyways so ... the river bit is never lost?
13:34:06  <chillcore> ^^^ just thinking out loud
13:35:01  <Samu> currently, the game doesn't preserve the river, if that's what you asking
13:35:20  <Samu> that is openttd 1.5.0-RC1
13:35:28  <chillcore> with your patch the river is restored when bombing the canal yes?
13:35:56  <Samu> well, one of my patches do that
13:36:04  <Samu> but i dunno if I mix them both
13:36:21  <chillcore> the bit is lost when you terraform a river (slope) in the wrong way yes?
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13:36:49  <chillcore> since you do not allow terraforming rivers and canals can not be terrformed
13:36:52  <Samu> gah, don't confuse me please
13:36:56  <chillcore> all is good if you stop there
13:37:00  <chillcore> I am not
13:37:15  <Samu> i have 1 patch which restores canals if they're built on rivers
13:37:17  <chillcore> just forbid terraforming or emlishing rivers
13:37:24  <chillcore> the rest fixes itself
13:37:30  <Samu> i have another patch which forbits terraforming and demolishing rivers
13:37:34  <chillcore> demolishing*
13:37:58  <chillcore> sigh
13:38:18  <Samu> #include "cheat_type.h"
13:38:22  <Samu> oops, wrong copy paste
13:38:32  <chillcore> there we go again
13:38:34  <Samu> start with rivers not being able to be demolished and not terraformed neither
13:38:36  <Samu> doing this
13:38:39  <chillcore> yes
13:38:44  <chillcore> and stop there
13:39:55  <Samu> ok, that means, screw the bit
13:40:06  <chillcore> for this patch yes
13:40:19  <chillcore> the next patch will be thebit and restoring
13:40:34  <chillcore> if canalis removed and had a river under it
13:40:38  <chillcore> and again stop there
13:41:02  <chillcore> 2 patches done, over, finito and next
13:41:57  <chillcore> you have the code for both patches so
13:58:00  <Samu> back
13:58:19  <Samu> okay, that is now my question
13:58:35  <Samu> allow canal to be built on river
13:59:02  <Samu> i have two options: allow or forbid
13:59:30  <chillcore> I can only speak for myself ... yes allow and restore when canal is removed
13:59:39  <chillcore> but don't make river if there was no canlal
13:59:52  <chillcore> if there was no river before I mean
14:01:28  <chillcore> since you will have two patches it is no prob
14:01:28  <chillcore> keep the forbid terraform seperate
14:03:07  <Samu> the two patches don't mix well together though
14:03:07  <chillcore> what have you now? forbid destruction yes?
14:03:07  <Samu> yes forbit river destruction and terraform
14:03:54  <chillcore> cool post that patch to the forums
14:03:54  <Samu> if you build a canal on river, it is allowed, but doesn't preserve the river
14:03:54  <chillcore> that is fine
14:03:54  <chillcore> post that pacth
14:03:54  <Samu> that means if you demolish canal afterwards, the river is gone
14:03:54  <Samu> ook
14:03:54  <chillcore> samu you're not reading again
14:03:54  <chillcore> post that forbid terraform pacth then come back
14:03:54  <Samu> ok ok
14:03:54  <chillcore> thanks a lot
14:03:54  <Samu>
14:03:54  <chillcore> is that the forum?
14:03:54  <Samu> no
14:03:54  <chillcore> thank you for reading
14:05:05  <Samu> erm,, whatever
14:06:46  <chillcore> no not whatever peeps are losing their patience
14:06:46  <chillcore> is it on the forums
14:06:46  <chillcore> ?
14:06:47  <Samu> you're missing the point, this is incomplete
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14:06:47  <chillcore> does it forbid terraforming rivers? yes or no
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14:07:17  <Samu> yes to that question, but... what if you build a canal on river and then demolish it?
14:07:17  <Samu> that part isn't deal with
14:07:17  <chillcore> that is after
14:07:17  <chillcore> don't care
14:07:17  <chillcore> that patch is done
14:07:17  <chillcore> you've posted it or not
14:07:17  <Samu> ok
14:07:17  <chillcore> now revert your code
14:07:17  <chillcore> do the other one
14:07:17  <chillcore> retsore when deleting rivers
14:10:07  <chillcore> when and only when you have both
14:10:07  <chillcore> you can try to make em work toghether
14:12:24  <chillcore> forgive me the tone but it is he only thinbg that sems to help
14:12:24  <chillcore> anyhoo ... you're close
14:12:24  <chillcore> you are just making it hard on yourself but mixing too much stuffs
14:12:24  <Samu>
14:12:24  <chillcore> cool
14:12:24  <chillcore> now you can do the restore when removing canals patch
14:12:24  <chillcore> but remove the other one first from your source
14:12:24  <Samu> they don't mix well together, I tried that and it screwed things
14:12:24  <chillcore> don't worry about that samu
14:12:24  <Samu> it's either one patch or the other
14:12:24  <chillcore> worries is for later
14:12:24  <chillcore> and one or the other is fine
14:12:24  <chillcore> for now
14:13:08  <Samu> because of that bool river being named equal for both in the same function yet doing different things
14:13:45  <chillcore> then rename one ...
14:13:45  <chillcore> later
14:14:12  <Sylf> frosch, so I should mark the langid 0x01 even when I live in US?  I feel more comfortable if I can mark my english.lng 0x00 and let translators add english_gb.lng or something
14:15:23  <frosch123> i changed it to 0x01
14:15:23  <frosch123> you can make us the default
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14:15:23  <frosch123> but then you have to name it english_us.txt, and add some file in .devzone/translator
14:15:23  <frosch123> to mark the default language
14:15:23  <Sylf> hmm ok
14:18:02  <Sylf> I'll have to do more reading
14:18:02  <frosch123>
14:18:02  <frosch123> i think supercheese runs some project with us being deault
14:18:04  <frosch123> <- that one
14:18:46  <Sylf> NML_FLAGS      ?= -c --default-lang=english_us.lng   <--- ah, that's the line I wanted to find for the makefile  :)
14:29:40  <Samu> it's done, yay
14:29:40  <Samu> let me post
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14:30:59  <chillcore> ok ... I will aply on top of my patch queue and have a look while I tune my own patch
14:33:08  <Sylf> ah, so I still need english.lng even when english_us.lng is default
14:33:08  <frosch123> no
14:33:08  <Sylf> (makefile)
14:33:08  <frosch123> english.txt is just the default for all tools, but you can make it just be the gb translation
14:34:24  <Samu>
14:34:43  <Sylf> I could compile with straight nmlc without english.lng
14:34:43  <Samu> just posted
14:34:43  <Samu> refresh page then, you must have downloaded wrong patch
14:34:43  <Sylf> but when I tried with the Makefile I copied from other projects, it complained that I needed english.lng
14:34:43  <Sylf> I'm trying to see where that error is coming from...
14:36:32  <Samu>
14:36:32  <chillcore> nope you were not reading again
14:36:33  <chillcore> we can find your topic just fine samu
14:36:33  <chillcore> I will remove the first patch from the second myself no prob
14:36:33  <chillcore> 2 patches is not 1
14:36:33  <chillcore> anyhoo
14:36:33  <Samu> you can't do it, I told you
14:36:33  <chillcore> I will test in a bit ...
14:36:33  <chillcore> no prob samu
14:36:33  <chillcore> what doe sit do now
14:36:52  <chillcore> restore when there was river and rivers can not be destroyed
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14:36:52  <Samu> it's one specific line which causes all this problem when mixing both patches, it needs careful editing
14:36:59  <Samu> if patching one on top of the other, that line blows up things
14:37:02  <chillcore> yea that is why I told you to do two patches seperate from one anaother
14:37:07  <chillcore> I'll manage
14:41:13  <chillcore> just don't expect a reply in 30 secs
14:41:13  <Samu> meh I either suck at explaining things.. or
14:41:13  <chillcore> what part of remove first patch and now do second did you not get?
14:41:13  <chillcore> just asking
14:41:13  <Samu> this is the special line which doesn't exist in the first patch nor in the second, it had to be manually crafted -> if ((canal_on_river || restore_river) && _game_mode == GM_NORMAL && !_cheats.magic_bulldozer.value) MakeRiver(tile, Random());
14:41:13  <Sylf> lol  do you two live in a parallel but separate world?
14:41:13  <chillcore> quantum logic :P
14:41:13  <Samu> that's it, i suck at explaining things!
14:41:13  <chillcore> I suck at bitmagic
14:41:13  <chillcore> hence I do not go there
14:41:13  <chillcore> simples
14:41:13  <Samu> 1 - canal on river patch: if (canal_on_river) MakeRiver(tile, Random());
14:41:47  <Samu> 2 - permanent river patch: if (restore_river) && _game_mode == GM_NORMAL && !_cheats.magic_bulldozer.value) MakeRiver(tile, Random());
14:42:08  <Samu> 3 - both patch: if ((canal_on_river || restore_river) && _game_mode == GM_NORMAL && !_cheats.magic_bulldozer.value) MakeRiver(tile, Random());
14:43:35  <chillcore> ye but you did 1 -> 3 skipping 2 entirely
14:43:51  <chillcore> ^^^ and that exactly is your prob
14:44:12  <Samu> bool canal_on_river = HasBit(_me[tile].m6, 0);
14:44:33  <chillcore> samu al lthis posting of code here is pointless
14:44:35  <Samu> bool restore_river = HasTileWaterClass(tile) && GetWaterClass(tile) == WATER_CLASS_RIVER;
14:44:36  <chillcore> too much unneded info
14:44:46  <Samu> two different meanings
14:44:54  <chillcore> it is needed for your patch sure
14:45:03  <chillcore> but
14:45:16  <Samu> one for whenever restoring river after destroying a canal
14:45:40  <chillcore> you are repaeting yourself over and over
14:45:43  <Samu> the other for restoring the river after destroying a river
14:45:50  <chillcore> just sit back and listen to a song for a sec
14:46:29  <chillcore> whatever you need to say write it in a textfile
14:46:35  <chillcore> listen to anoter song and read what you wrote
14:46:52  <chillcore> edit a bit and then speak
14:47:02  <chillcore> you want toomuch too fast
14:47:12  <Samu> tell me if it works
14:47:25  <chillcore> I will in a bit
14:47:45  <chillcore> when I close my current running instance and have checked what I eed to change
14:48:03  <chillcore> at that time I will add your patch and make mu changes
14:48:21  <chillcore> while checking my changes I will mess with what you did a bit too
14:48:39  <chillcore> I will not drop everything just like that, I told you that yesterday
14:48:59  <Samu> I don't understand the way you work
14:49:17  <chillcore> I make changes and test
14:49:31  <chillcore> I make changes based on my testing
14:49:43  <chillcore> rince repeat untill I am happy
14:50:30  <chillcore> I think 99% of us coders work that way?
14:51:01  <Samu> you want me to separate patches so I can mix them together, yet knowing it will not work :(
14:51:21  <chillcore> lol I told you to do two patches that work on their own
14:51:30  <Samu> they work on their own
14:51:49  <Flygon_> Back in my day, we patched games by disassembling them, then changing their pointers towards new hand-assembled code, and prayed it worked!
14:51:57  <chillcore> ye
14:52:00  <Flygon_> Then again, we were hacking apart Mega Drive games, and tbh
14:52:06  <chillcore> good old hex hacking
14:52:07  <Flygon_> It's a pretty terrible coding method :B
14:52:13  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
14:52:17  <Flygon> Split disassemblies are sooooooooo much nicer
14:52:40  <chillcore> I had exploder on my PSX
14:52:51  <chillcore> and something like that for commodore 64
14:53:34  <Flygon> Anyway, I'll walk out again and stop interrupting
14:53:40  <Samu> doo dee
14:54:09  <chillcore> don't let me chase you away flygon ...
14:54:18  <Flygon> Dude
14:54:24  <Flygon> You don't chase me away
14:54:27  <Flygon> You press down
14:54:30  <Flygon> Then you press right
14:54:33  <Flygon> And then you press A
14:54:40  <Flygon> And then you run away from my brilliance B3
14:54:42  <frosch123> is there a difference between commodore64 and amd64 ?
14:54:53  <chillcore> not upup downdown ...
14:55:13  <Flygon> frosch123: One's very popular in Finland, one's very popular with people that want a lot of CPU cores dirt cheap
14:55:30  <chillcore> haha
14:56:22  <Flygon> But, for me
14:56:25  <Flygon> If you want more CPU cores
14:56:36  <Flygon> You absolutely can't go wrong with the 90s
14:56:57  <Flygon> Bringing us such multi-CPU delights, as the SegaCD32X Mega Drive, and the Sega Saturn
14:57:02  <Flygon> Because as we all know
14:57:14  <Flygon> Having 3 seperate CPU archiatectures is the paragon of efficiency
14:57:24  <Flygon> Also that Flygon can't spell archiatecture
14:57:59  <Samu> lol
14:58:05  <Samu> must demolish canal first
14:58:48  <Samu> the error is misleading
14:58:54  <Samu> whatever
14:59:37  <Samu> I think i can work out on a better error
14:59:40  <Samu> brb
15:08:19  <Samu> there is no "River in the Way" string is there :(
15:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause> make one
15:12:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: what happens if you try to build a rail on a river?
15:12:57  <Samu> can't build on water
15:13:38  <Samu> error message "can't build on water"
15:18:42  <chillcore> <frosch123> is there a difference between commodore64 and amd64 ?   <- I sure miss the sound of the tapedrive
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15:19:29  <chillcore> at least you knew for sure something was happening
15:21:24  <chillcore> hmm I will have to apply samu's patch by hand ... rejected chunks in landscape.html
15:21:56  <chillcore> and that is just the first file
15:22:10  <LePsy666> Hi, can you please tell me how to force an openttd dedicated server to save the game ? I tried "rcon <password> save gregre" but it does not work :/
15:23:01  <frosch123> rcon password 'save gregre'
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15:28:39  <LePsy666> frosch123: I get "ERROR: command not found" :/
15:30:01  *** oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
15:31:17  <frosch123> maybe it is " quotes instead of ' quotes
15:33:43  <LePsy666> frosch123: -_-" thanks, I may have tried every combination ... except this one
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15:36:00  <frosch123> Sylf: now it fails because "baselang" and "english.lng" have some BOM at the beginning
15:36:32  <Sylf> oh.
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15:38:16  <Samu> new version chillchore
15:38:23  <Samu> if you still care
15:39:09  <Igor> hi all. i m new to ttd. i made a screenshot and cannot find it on disk. and save files i canot find too thouch in a game itself it seems to be in a game root dir
15:39:15  <Igor> pls advise
15:39:27  <Sylf> windows? linux? mac?
15:39:32  <Sylf> other?
15:39:36  <Igor> win xp 32
15:39:54  <Sylf> do you see OpenTTD folder in My Documents?
15:40:42  <Igor> i do now, and i found everything, thanks a bunch )
15:42:18  <chillcore> <Samu> new version chillchore <- I'll check out the difference in a bit ...
15:43:45  <chillcore> no need to post your link all the time samu whe know where it is at
15:44:08  <chillcore> "new version on forums" will do ;)
15:51:56  <Samu> what is preferible during scenario editor?
15:52:09  <chillcore> one thing that confuses me samu and this may be not your fault ... my docs don't match yours ...
15:52:23  <Samu> hmm
15:52:27  <chillcore> could be a diff between hg and svn
15:52:35  <chillcore> I have no idea
15:52:43  <Samu> the docs were edited
15:52:55  <Samu> because of that bit
15:53:03  <chillcore> I know I get rejected chunks and am applying manually
15:53:08  <chillcore> that is what I am saying
15:53:57  <Samu> during scenario editor you can remove a canal directly regardless if it was built on river or not
15:54:08  <Samu> is this a good behaviour?
15:54:20  <chillcore> eg. th elast lie you modify in landscape_grid.html is not the same as mine
15:54:30  <chillcore> ^^^ before modifying
15:54:58  <chillcore> line*
15:55:37  <chillcore> which is strnge to say the least
15:55:53  <Samu> seems like the patch creator sucks
15:55:58  <chillcore> you did not modify the diff by hand did you?
15:56:17  <chillcore> cause that would explain it
15:57:13  <Samu> i need an original landscape_grid.html to compare, brb
15:57:51  <chillcore> I think that is what you did ... svn produces 3 lines of unmodified code after the modified line
15:58:00  <chillcore> yours has only two there
15:59:48  <chillcore> you sure as hell don't make it easy on peeps to help you
16:00:52  <chillcore> when you pull a diff you don't touch it no more
16:01:01  <Samu> ah I see what svn is doing
16:01:02  <chillcore> if you have to pull a new one
16:01:24  <Samu> since the lines are equal, it is alternating the removal
16:01:34  <Samu> the result is still correct however
16:01:37  <chillcore> I am not even talking about that
16:01:41  <chillcore> that is normal
16:01:48  <Samu> the last line
16:02:04  <chillcore> landscape_grid.html
16:02:31  <chillcore> the original last line is not    -      <td class="bits"><span class="free">OOOO OOOO</span></td>
16:02:37  <chillcore> but in your diff it is
16:03:45  <chillcore> so something is wrong with the svn or you edited manually
16:03:57  <chillcore> anyhoo
16:04:02  <Samu> is that at line 363?
16:04:26  <chillcore> yes ... line 364 magically dissapeared
16:04:30  <chillcore> for you
16:04:44  <Samu> line 364 is here
16:04:46  <Samu>       <td class="bits">XXXX XXXX</td>
16:04:54  <Samu> it's correct for me
16:04:59  <chillcore> ye check your patch now
16:05:09  <chillcore> and see if you find that line
16:05:14  <chillcore> you edited the patch
16:05:19  <chillcore> thanks a bunch
16:06:41  <Samu> line 364 isn't supposed to disappear
16:06:59  <chillcore> that is what I am saying
16:07:02  <chillcore> nvm
16:07:15  <Samu> and line 363 is supposed to be altered
16:07:33  <chillcore> samu we can talk about this ad infintum
16:07:34  <Alberth> always double check the resulting patch
16:07:42  <Samu> <td class="bits"><span class="free">OOOO OOO</span>X</td>
16:07:46  <Samu> it is fine for me
16:07:51  <chillcore> after pulling a patch don't edit it ever manually
16:07:57  <chillcore> ofcourse it is fine for you
16:08:14  <chillcore> not for the rest of the world who wants to test
16:08:17  <Samu> I didn't edit manually that patch, I created it again
16:08:34  <chillcore> then maybe it is a glitch in the matrix
16:08:36  <chillcore> :P
16:09:04  <Samu> right click, TortoiseSVN -> Create patch...
16:09:17  <chillcore> yes samu we know how it works
16:09:19  <Samu> select all stuff except visual basic
16:09:22  <Samu> ya
16:09:55  <Samu> visual studio
16:10:08  <chillcore> visual studo has nothing to do with this
16:10:24  <Samu> those files are changed but I don't include in the patch
16:10:39  <Samu> because visual studio likes to change stuff
16:10:58  <chillcore> k.
16:10:59  <Alberth> perhaps read how it works
16:11:06  <chillcore> ^^^
16:11:42  <Samu> i dunno how you make line 364 magically disappear
16:11:55  <Alberth> you don't
16:12:18  <chillcore> sigh I did not samu I am reading the patch you posted
16:13:05  <Samu> maybe it's the way you apply the patch?
16:13:17  <Samu> I don't really know this stuff sorry
16:13:34  <Samu> sorry for being slow
16:13:52  <Sylf> it feels quite the opposite...
16:14:19  <Sylf> it feels like you're posting a new patch every few minutes
16:15:08  <Alberth> that's not impossible
16:16:35  <Alberth> Samu: chillcore ran ChillPP for a long time, he really does understand how to handle patches
16:16:39  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
16:16:42  <andythenorth> why
16:16:44  <andythenorth> did
16:16:46  <chillcore> damn you make me doubt myself ... downloading you r patch again to make sure it did not happen here somehow
16:16:46  <Alberth> hi andy
16:16:48  <andythenorth> I open
16:16:54  <chillcore> o/ hello andy
16:16:54  <andythenorth> the save
16:16:58  <andythenorth> from Baldy
16:17:02  <Alberth> lol
16:17:24  <Samu> what is it again?
16:17:45  <Alberth> I did a few times too, it's fun to see how he plays
16:18:20  <andythenorth> he plays like 2996
16:18:24  <andythenorth> 1996*
16:18:51  <Samu> Not downloaded yet
16:18:52  <Alberth> just don't expect to learn anything from it :)
16:18:53  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
16:18:57  <Samu> you're not downloading it
16:19:05  <Samu> bah, i dun't get you
16:19:41  <chillcore> I what?
16:19:54  <chillcore> I am comparing right now
16:20:10  <Sylf> oh, I learned a great deal from his games.
16:20:11  * andythenorth got to see inside his own intenstinal tract today
16:20:16  <andythenorth> that’s an unusual Saturday
16:20:19  <Sylf> How vastly different playing style there can be.
16:20:22  <andythenorth> also I got pethidine
16:20:26  <Sylf> My biggest lesson learned.
16:20:28  <andythenorth> pethidine makes the day go nicely
16:20:35  <Samu> you're downloading the wrong one
16:20:42  <Samu> counter went from 4 to 5
16:20:50  <Samu> that's the old one
16:20:59  <Samu> the new one has still not been downloaded
16:21:00  * andythenorth wonders if opiates could be more widely available
16:21:05  * andythenorth might be off-topic
16:21:36  <Samu> 10.84 KB this is the new one
16:22:02  <chillcore> -      <td class="bits"><span class="free">OOOO OOOO</span></td>+       <td class="bits">XXXX XXXX</td>
16:22:12  <chillcore> this is the versio I downloaded at first
16:22:40  <chillcore> -      <td class="bits"><span class="free">OOOO OOOO</span></td>+      <td class="bits"><span class="free">OOOO OOO</span>X</td>
16:22:46  <chillcore> this is that same version now
16:22:49  <chillcore> you tell me
16:22:51  <Alberth> andythenorth: try #legalize-weed ?  :)
16:23:22  <chillcore> and the "fixed" one looks like the last I posted
16:23:27  <Alberth> Sylf: I find it fun that you can play just by taking over AI networks :)
16:24:21  <Sylf> then come back and report that somehow they're losing money?  oh puhleeeze.  >_<
16:24:23  <Samu> I did not edit that
16:24:31  <Samu> you must have a different landscape_grid
16:24:39  <Samu> when combined with mine
16:24:49  <Samu> it screws that last column at last row
16:24:55  <Samu>
16:25:06  <chillcore> me neither samu ... let's drop this converation ... it must be matrix glitches that produse different results for downloading the exact same patch
16:25:36  <Samu> look at that link, they're supposed to stay as XXXX XXXX
16:25:39  <Sylf> meh.  I didn't mean to rant  :P
16:26:04  <Samu> the column at m6 (8) must look like OOOO OOOX
16:26:07  <Alberth> Sylf: it's a compact description :p
16:27:24  <Samu> original Object m6 (8) OOOO OOOO, my patched Object m6 (8) OOOO OOOX
16:27:35  <Samu> m7 (8) isn't altered
16:27:41  <Samu> I swear I never changed it
16:28:41  <Alberth> Samu: it doesn't matter what you did or did not. The patch defines the changes, even if you didn't intend it
16:28:41  <chillcore> samu ... you want me to test this patch or not?
16:28:52  <Samu> oki
16:28:58  <chillcore> if yes drop it right now ... I'll manage
16:29:23  <Alberth> Samu: always double or triple check things that are output
16:31:52  <Samu> i checked and rechecked the resulting changes, it is being displayed correctly when i open the html file
16:32:19  <Samu> i changed for Dock
16:32:27  <Samu> Oil Rig
16:32:29  <Samu> Buoy
16:32:44  <Samu> canal, river
16:32:48  <Samu> ship depot
16:32:51  <Samu> and object
16:32:53  <Samu> nothing else
16:32:57  <Alberth> don't check the file, check the patch itself
16:33:04  <Samu> oh, and industry too
16:33:25  <chillcore> and still I have this patchfile I did not modify and looks different
16:33:31  <chillcore> why do you keep going
16:33:34  <chillcore> ?
16:33:43  <Samu> grrr send it to me
16:33:49  <Samu> i wanna see what's happening
16:37:06  <chillcore> PMd ... and drop it please I have you new version
16:37:47  <chillcore> I have three files the one I sent you does not have (1) or (2) so that is the one I downloaded first
16:41:12  <chillcore> unbelievable ... glad my daughter is not reading this
16:41:39  <chillcore> she would be like "hey what's up with that ... I don't get to talk to yo ulike that ... EVER"
16:42:15  <chillcore> she'd be having siome hot buttcheeks about a week ago :(
16:44:30  <chillcore> anyhoo my patch is comming nicely
16:44:34  <chillcore>
16:44:36  <chillcore> yay
16:45:42  <Samu> :( I give up. this version is sized 10.67 KiB yet I only ever posted two versions, one with 10.52 KB other with 10.87 KiB
16:46:47  <chillcore> like I said I don't know
16:46:54  <chillcore> enjoy tha musics
16:51:37  <andythenorth> Alberth: probably won’t go in that channel :)
16:51:44  <andythenorth> THC makes me paranoid
16:52:15  <andythenorth> hmm
16:52:18  <andythenorth> * more paranoid
16:52:30  <andythenorth> opiates are relaxing
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16:54:23  <andythenorth> anyone playing new horse?
16:54:32  <chillcore> samu: you delete a few white lines here and there ... that needs fixing
17:01:11  <Samu> what's a white line
17:01:37  <chillcore> a line with nothing in it
17:01:47  <Samu> a paragraph
17:01:49  <Samu> kinda
17:01:49  <Samu> ok
17:01:55  <chillcore> egh line 211 in your patch
17:02:02  <chillcore> there are many more
17:03:03  <Samu> ah, i think i know what you mean
17:03:12  <Samu> ok editing
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17:25:53  <Samu> question, that white line at landscape.html is intended
17:26:03  <Samu> in my opinion
17:26:22  <Samu> it was a space with nothing
17:28:00  <chillcore> ye that fix seems fine to me but the rest of them not
17:28:21  <chillcore> anyhoo just got of the phone ... again
17:28:42  <chillcore> I'll let you know when I have tested
17:28:52  <chillcore> did not get to that yet with all that talking
17:30:18  <Samu> maybe i should improve the documentation a little bit now that I have more time
17:30:41  <chillcore> ye that is a good idea :)
17:31:02  <andythenorth> slow openttd is slow
17:31:25  <chillcore> <li>m6 bit 0: river restoration flag for whenever a canal is removed iff there was a river previously under it</li>
17:31:27  <chillcore> samu:
17:31:45  <chillcore> hehe andy how come?
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17:32:14  <Samu> that would be implied
17:32:18  <Samu> river restoration
17:32:42  <chillcore> samu "iff" means "if and only if"
17:33:14  <chillcore> no it would not it said "when canal is removed" and nothing more
17:33:18  <chillcore> your call
17:33:21  <chillcore> just a hint
17:33:43  <Samu> that lingo
17:33:49  <Samu> I would never have guessed it
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17:34:00  <chillcore> feel free to write it in full
17:36:48  <andythenorth> chillcore: dunno, probably 2x UI zoom is part of it
17:37:15  <andythenorth> also whatever apple have done to SDKs and Clang in last 12-24 months
17:37:29  <chillcore> zoomng in shouldl improve speed as less is drawn
17:37:47  <andythenorth> 113 vehicles on 1024x512 map
17:37:53  <andythenorth> it’s hardly a big game :P
17:37:57  <chillcore> apple s possible
17:38:00  <chillcore> true
17:38:54  <andythenorth> it’s borderline unplayable
17:39:06  <chillcore> got scripts or ais running?
17:39:18  <andythenorth> busy bee
17:39:26  <andythenorth> civic ai
17:39:33  <Alberth> disable full animation?
17:39:44  <chillcore> they need cycles too ... and ^^^
17:39:52  <chillcore> also other blitter
17:40:06  <andythenorth> full animation is already disabled, has been for some time
17:40:28  <andythenorth> tried all the blitters
17:40:41  <andythenorth> I think the OS X port is basically dead
17:40:49  <chillcore> Do we officially support OSX yet?
17:41:05  <andythenorth> no
17:41:20  <chillcore> there might be something to fix still
17:41:30  <chillcore> no OSX here so cannot help
17:41:52  <andythenorth> I think it’s low likelihood to get fixed
17:42:17  <chillcore> I would not mind having one of them big ass towers
17:42:33  <chillcore> just can nt bring myself to invest in non-upgradable hardware
17:42:47  <chillcore> iPad was exception cause CS ;)
17:43:19  * andythenorth upgrades hardware by selling the old one and getting the new one
17:43:25  <andythenorth> this bug is invalid
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17:43:38  <andythenorth> or at least, works for me, and I documented compile steps in the wiki
17:44:11  <andythenorth>
17:44:34  <andythenorth> I also now have a working freetype, so --without-freetype is not needed
17:44:53  <andythenorth> although freetype now whines about some font issues
17:45:01  <andythenorth> "Unable to use '16' for small font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead"
17:45:27  <peter1138> Bad font settings
17:45:36  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27201 /trunk/src/lang (english_US.txt latin.txt) (2015-03-21 18:45:26 +0100 )
17:45:37  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38  <DorpsGek> english_US - 4 changes by Supercheese
17:45:40  <DorpsGek> latin - 4 changes by Supercheese
17:47:57  <chillcore> I know little about OSX iOS ... just enough to know that most jailbreak tweaks are not worth buying as they do kiddie stuffs
17:48:08  <chillcore> ^^^ most not all
17:48:43  <chillcore> easily done by a oneliner in config files yourself
17:48:49  <chillcore> without the spyware :P
17:49:30  <chillcore> and even if I would want to give some money I can not
17:49:42  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o]
17:49:44  <chillcore> forced, google+, facebook accout and paypall
17:50:03  <chillcore> which does not accept anonymous or unlinked to your bank account
17:50:10  <chillcore> silly paypall
17:50:16  <andythenorth> peter1138: font settings? o_O
17:50:32  <Samu> "river restoration flag for whenever a canal is removed" this wording isn't still quite fitting
17:50:52  <Samu> sometimes I am demolishing something else
17:51:06  <chillcore> I gave you a better explanation ...
17:51:13  <Samu> it's more like a river presence flag
17:51:28  <chillcore> ye
17:51:41  <chillcore> river preservation
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17:52:27  <Samu> demolishing a dock that was build on a canal that was built on a river restores a canal instead, and still maintains the river presence
17:53:03  <chillcore> good no?
17:53:17  <chillcore> I tld you stuff like that would fix itself ;)
17:53:35  <chillcore> or not get broken in the first place to be more correct
17:53:37  <Samu> it is already doing that, but explaining it, documenting it
17:53:48  <Samu> translating it into englsih words
17:53:56  <chillcore> do you have to explain that?
17:54:14  <chillcore> you restre rivers the rest was there already
17:54:33  <chillcore> and is expected behavour most likely docuented somewhere else
17:54:45  <chillcore> just document what you do
17:54:48  <chillcore> river stuffs
17:55:11  <andythenorth> interesting decision to pin vehicle windows by default
17:57:17  <Samu> river preservation flag for whenever a canal is removed if and only if there was a river previously under it
17:57:43  <chillcore> ye that seems good enough
17:57:52  <andythenorth> so which linux should I try?
17:57:55  <chillcore> just do as you feel is right samu
17:58:03  <andythenorth> does linux have a UI?
17:58:14  <Alberth> several ones
17:58:30  <andythenorth> is it better or worse with a UI?
17:58:38  <chillcore> Linux mint Debian edition is  nice
17:58:38  <andythenorth> the only Linux users I know don’t use the UI
17:58:38  <Alberth> most main stream is GTK3
17:58:44  <chillcore> avoid ubuntu
17:58:53  <andythenorth> they have somehow configured emacs to be their entire computer
17:58:59  <chillcore> silly unity and sluggish IHMO
17:59:06  <andythenorth> do I need a UI?
17:59:13  <andythenorth> this is just to run openttd
17:59:15  <chillcore> no but you may want one
17:59:19  <Alberth> debian is big
17:59:32  <andythenorth> all I need is hg, ./configure, make run
17:59:41  <chillcore> MATE is nice , feels like windoze pre metro
17:59:47  <andythenorth> oh crap, I need some way to get newgrfs into it
18:00:05  <chillcore> rolling debian will be my next distro
18:00:08  <andythenorth> is there an openttd appliance for virtualbox? :P
18:00:12  <Alberth> it's called a network connection :p
18:00:36  <andythenorth> I have to scp or something?
18:00:56  <chillcore> and UI wise andy ... try a few you can change as you wish
18:00:59  * andythenorth wonders if linux could mount a directory on the OS X disk
18:00:59  <Alberth> not following you
18:01:11  <andythenorth> but that is terrible for security
18:01:33  <andythenorth> I need a way to type ‘make install’ on OS X, and have the newgrf appear in my game
18:02:09  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, usually there are such things as shared folders
18:02:24  <andythenorth> I never allow virtualbox to have those
18:02:26  <andythenorth> usually
18:02:37  <andythenorth> because I’m running windows boxes
18:02:57  * andythenorth wonders if OpenTTD runs on windows
18:02:59  <frosch123> just don't share everything
18:02:59  * andythenorth tries
18:03:09  <Alberth> yes it does
18:03:22  <chillcore> it runs very well under wine
18:03:51  <Alberth> it also runs well with wine :)
18:04:05  <chillcore> *hik*
18:04:16  <andythenorth> there is some OS X equivalent of wine, I forget the name
18:04:21  <andythenorth> I had ottd running in that for a bit
18:04:27  <Samu> river preservation flag for whenever a canal, oil rig, buoy, industry, dock, object, ship depot are removed if and only if there was a river previously under it
18:04:39  <Samu> ugh, it's looking ugly now
18:04:43  <andythenorth> huh, there’s some kind of installer :o
18:04:46  <chillcore> just canal samu
18:04:52  <andythenorth> it’s doing weird stuff
18:05:00  <andythenorth> at least my VM is snapshotted
18:05:06  <chillcore> eh no you're right nvm samu
18:05:18  <chillcore> make it "something"
18:05:39  <chillcore> no need for so much details
18:06:04  <chillcore> imagine something is added later then peeps do not have to adjust that comment
18:06:15  <andythenorth> ok OpenTTD completely unusable in Windows
18:06:30  <andythenorth> cursor doesn’t just lag, it totally fails to follow
18:06:36  * andythenorth reverts that VM
18:07:11  <andythenorth> hmm, maybe I should turn off all the ‘while paused’ restrictions
18:07:13  <Samu> doo dee doo dee
18:07:24  <andythenorth> the game is ok on OS X if I pause before moving cursor
18:07:33  <andythenorth> or dragging, or opening windows etc
18:08:07  <Samu> gah, i suck at english indeed lol
18:08:32  <chillcore> before commiting your patch will need reviewing anyway samu
18:08:34  <andythenorth> eh, anyway, this game is kind of dead
18:08:38  * andythenorth will find something else to do
18:08:46  <chillcore> just do your best ... more peeps do not ask
18:08:48  <Samu> step 1: river + canal = canal with river flag
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18:10:14  <Samu> step 2: canal with river flag + "something that can be built on water" = "something hat can be built on water" with canal with river flag
18:10:26  <andythenorth> Cent OS?
18:11:27  <andythenorth> Fedora?
18:11:37  <chillcore> there is only 400+ linux distros ... not sure what Cent is
18:12:07  <andythenorth> Cent OS is the ‘free’ version of RHL afaik
18:12:13  <Samu> this flag is kept around different structures
18:12:15  <andythenorth> popular for webservers
18:12:23  <Samu> meh whatever i'll figure this out
18:12:24  <Alberth> centos is redhat server release (long term stable)
18:12:25  <andythenorth> dunno if it’s suited as a gaming OS
18:12:29  <chillcore> k thanks for clarifying
18:12:38  <andythenorth> which Linux for gaming? :P
18:12:42  <Alberth> fedora is bleeding edge (6 months -> new release)
18:12:49  <Sylf> SteamOS?
18:12:55  <chillcore> lel
18:13:04  <Sylf> exactly.
18:13:04  <Samu> android stuff
18:13:18  <Alberth> debian is nice middle ground as for release cycles
18:13:44  <andythenorth> allegedly ubuntu is good for gaming
18:13:52  <Sylf> I'm happy with mint.
18:13:53  <chillcore> Steam is evil enough wthout being an OS
18:14:01  <chillcore> me too ... very
18:14:02  <Alberth> ubuntu is debian variant, but weird
18:14:07  <chillcore> ye
18:14:19  <Sylf> and mint is ubuntu variant.
18:14:24  <Sylf> variant of weird.
18:14:25  <Samu> I once tried ubuntu, it installed then failed to reboot for first run
18:14:29  <chillcore> mint has an ubuntu version and Debian
18:14:30  <Alberth> they don't care much about users, but it's aimed at newbies
18:14:35  <Samu> no more ubuntu for me
18:14:52  <Alberth> mint also seems to be nice, don't know it
18:15:07  <chillcore> mint is a bit slow to update at times but stuff is properly tested
18:15:17  <Taede> mint works for me
18:15:24  <chillcore> before release not after
18:15:48  <chillcore> and you can always add sources so
18:15:50  <Alberth> chillcore: time for a little green days
18:16:35  <Sylf>   makes me think this is a big part of why linux confuses regular consumer way too much
18:16:52  <frosch123> Sylf: i reimported the animals to eints, so now us is base language. if you want people to actually translate, you need to check the "inherit members" flag
18:17:02  <frosch123> currently you have no translators approved
18:17:10  <Sylf> oh.
18:17:16  <peter1138> There is only Debian. No need for anything else. Linux is simple.
18:17:52  <Sylf> aha, I missed that setting.
18:17:55  * andythenorth wonders if Virtualbox will cripple performance
18:18:03  <andythenorth> looking at OS X Wine tools
18:18:11  <Alberth> won't get better :p
18:18:40  <andythenorth> how do I choose?
18:18:47  <andythenorth> other than they are all big, and my HD space is running out
18:18:56  * chillcore headbangs
18:19:16  <chillcore> not on desk :P
18:19:16  * andythenorth has no idea about computers
18:19:47  <chillcore> rolling andy
18:20:00  <chillcore> not looked at link though
18:20:03  * andythenorth rolls
18:20:23  <andythenorth> I just want a VM that I download, click run, and I get a prompt
18:20:42  <andythenorth> then checkout openttd with git or hg, and build it
18:20:56  <chillcore> any distro will do for that
18:20:58  *** liq3 [] has joined #openttd
18:20:59  <andythenorth> do I have to build gcc and mercurial and all that crap?
18:21:02  <chillcore> puppy linux :P
18:21:08  <chillcore> very lightweight
18:22:19  <chillcore> nah
18:22:50  <andythenorth> hmm
18:22:54  <andythenorth> it’s all way too confusing
18:23:10  <peter1138> andythenorth, none of them, they are all out of date.
18:23:19  <chillcore> sudo apt-get install build-essential pkg-config libsdl1.2-dev subversion patch zlib1g-dev liblzo2-dev liblzma-dev libfontconfig-dev libicu-dev
18:23:20  <andythenorth> and OpenTTD is probably not going to run in virtualbox linux any better than virtualbox windows
18:23:22  <chillcore> and go
18:23:31  <chillcore> ^^^that is one line btw
18:23:45  *** LePsy666 [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:26:20  <Sylf> openttd in virtualbox is okay.  not terrible, but not great. that's my experience.  I don't remember trying it under windows as guest os
18:26:58  <frosch123> rmb scrolling sucks with absolute pointing devices
18:27:39  <andythenorth> hmm
18:27:50  <chillcore> Alberth I was listening to this before headbanging
18:28:00  * chillcore continues listening
18:28:07  <andythenorth> compared to self-compiled trunk, do stable RCs have any debugging code etc turned off?
18:28:30  <andythenorth> 1.5.0-RC1 is subjectively more perfomant than my compile of recent trunk
18:28:40  <frosch123> stable releases have assertions disabled, and opimisations enabled
18:28:56  <andythenorth> it’s harder to get the cursor to lag
18:29:03  <frosch123> there is no difference between rc and nightly compilation
18:29:25  <andythenorth> ffwd actually does something (not much, but something)
18:29:40  <andythenorth> things like the animation of a station payment don’t chug visible
18:29:45  <frosch123> if you compile yourself without specific configure options, optiimisation is the default
18:30:02  <andythenorth> have I set some stupidly high debug level? :P
18:30:10  * andythenorth wonders if the pain is self-inflicted
18:30:24  <Alberth> any debug level is sufficient for a slow down :)
18:31:19  <andythenorth> is that in openttd.cfg somewhere?
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18:31:46  <Alberth> ./configure --enable-debug
18:32:02  <Alberth> ie drop the --enable-debug stuff :p
18:33:52  <andythenorth> so no debug set with just ./configure ?
18:34:00  <chillcore> ye
18:34:22  <andythenorth> the OS X binaries are built with GCC?
18:35:57  <andythenorth> ach enough faff
18:36:06  * andythenorth plays openttd with the binary RC
18:37:44  <Samu> <li>m6 bit 0: set if a river was originally present under water based stations (dock, buoy, oilrig)</li>
18:40:53  <chillcore> docks, buoyes, oilrigs can only be built on water ... too much info?
18:41:56  <Alberth> looks ok to me
18:42:11  <Alberth> a bit redundancy doesn't hurt
18:42:15  <chillcore> true
18:42:44  <Samu> m6 bit 0: set if a river was originally present at the tile (canal, river, ship depot)
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18:43:22  <Alberth> that's something very different
18:43:48  <Samu> river is wrong
18:44:02  <Samu> Class Water: m6 bit 0: set if a river was originally present at the tile (canal, ship depot)
18:44:39  <Samu> Class Station: m6 bit 0: set if a river was originally present under water based stations (dock, buoy, oilrig)
18:45:32  <Samu> Class Industry: m6 bit 0: set if a river was originally present at the tile (oilrig)
18:46:16  <Samu> Class Object: m6 bit 0: set if a river was originally present at the tile (some NewGRFs)?
18:46:23  <Samu> hmm
18:47:32  <Samu> how am I to describe the behaviour for object class?
18:50:43  <chillcore> patch seems to work fine so far samu ... finally got to compiling
18:50:51  <chillcore> so much distraction today ...
18:53:33  <chillcore> except when destroying a lock the lower and upper tiles becomes river even if there was none before
18:53:46  <chillcore> ther will be more little things I am sure
18:54:37  <chillcore> my bad the become canal
18:54:55  <chillcore> not your patch that does this ... I guess
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18:56:39  <Samu> you sure it becomes river? if there was none before, it should become a canal
18:56:44  <Samu> let me test
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18:59:24  <chillcore> ... I corrected myself
18:59:38  <chillcore> but yeah canal not river
19:00:06  <chillcore> when destroying no river so that is good
19:00:11  <chillcore> sorry for the confusion
19:00:15  <Samu> puzzle!
19:00:36  <Samu> how am i to describe the Class Object?
19:00:50  <Samu> i have little experience with Objects
19:01:48  <chillcore> why explain differently?
19:02:16  <chillcore> "restore river when an object is destroyed that was built on a river tile"
19:02:22  <Samu> set if a river was originally present at the tile
19:02:22  <chillcore> unless you mean something else
19:02:31  <chillcore> ye
19:02:52  <Samu> but the original game doesn't have any such object to exemplify
19:03:17  <Samu> well, okay then
19:03:36  <chillcore> in regards of MHL: is there a heightlimit where river sources are spawned?
19:03:59  <Samu> MHL?
19:04:00  <chillcore> not familiar with that code but they all seem to be spawned at ather low levels
19:04:14  <chillcore> MoreHeightLevels Samu
19:04:20  <Samu> I have no idea what's MHL
19:04:22  *** OsteHovel [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04:23  <Samu> ah
19:04:49  <chillcore> but the question was not specifically for you, just ni general in case someone knows
19:05:00  * chillcore digs source
19:05:37  <Samu> let me edit a scenario with 255 height
19:05:59  <chillcore> samu ... if I had not seen this behavour I would nt ask ;)
19:06:05  <chillcore> kind of you to check though
19:08:22  <Samu> i can place rivers on height 0xff
19:08:43  *** OsteHovel [] has joined #openttd
19:09:37  <chillcore> I meant mapgen
19:10:12  <chillcore> ^^^ normal game mode
19:16:25  *** Bluelight [] has joined #openttd
19:19:35  <Samu> still generating map
19:19:43  <Samu> 4096x4096 :( it's slow
19:22:20  <chillcore> ye what did you expect ... huge map
19:22:36  <chillcore> anyway found it ... the rivergen code uses magic nrs
19:22:45  <Alberth> s/huge/insane/
19:23:27  <peter1138> INSANELY HUGE
19:24:08  <chillcore> bugack has 8k** max ... people were playing that ... I could not even open them due to RAM
19:25:06  <chillcore> don't think anyone ever filled that
19:25:24  <Alberth> everybody already fails at 2048x2048
19:25:27  <peter1138>
19:25:27  <peter1138> # #    #  ####    ##   #    # ###### #      #   #
19:25:27  <peter1138> # ##   # #       #  #  ##   # #      #       # #
19:25:27  <peter1138> # # #  #  ####  #    # # #  # #####  #        #
19:25:27  <peter1138> # #  # #      # ###### #  # # #      #        #
19:25:29  <peter1138> # #   ## #    # #    # #   ## #      #        #
19:25:32  <peter1138> # #    #  ####  #    # #    # ###### ######   #
19:25:34  <peter1138>
19:25:37  <peter1138>
19:25:39  <peter1138> #    # #    #  ####  ######
19:25:42  <peter1138> #    # #    # #    # #
19:25:44  <peter1138> ###### #    # #      #####
19:25:47  <peter1138> #    # #    # #  ### #
19:25:49  <peter1138> #    # #    # #    # #
19:25:52  <peter1138> #    #  ####   ####  ######
19:25:55  <peter1138>
19:25:57  <peter1138> Er... oops
19:26:10  <Alberth> can't read that :)
19:26:12  <chillcore> lol
19:26:39  <Sylf> I'm more impressed that irc didn't kick you
19:26:49  <peter1138> Might be the @
19:26:56  <Sylf> :D
19:27:14  <chillcore> alberth
19:28:01  <Alberth> ha :D   thanks
19:28:15  <chillcore> yw
19:28:49  <Alberth> I should find a fixed-width font for the irc client :)
19:32:45  <chillcore> hmm not sure if I can fix this rivers spawning low codewise ... messing with config to see
19:36:38  <chillcore> river at level 45 so no prob here
19:37:12  <chillcore> just that they look for an end point (sea or lake) and there are not many of those at high levels
19:39:00  <Samu> found a river at heigth 150
19:39:08  <Samu> 0x96
19:40:05  <Samu> 153 now
19:40:23  <Samu> they're so small in comparison to map size
19:41:55  <Samu> aha, new height record: 157
19:42:16  <chillcore> openttd config ... "min river lenght" or something
19:43:18  <Samu> what is the maximum tile height for alpinist?
19:43:36  <chillcore> 30 is a nice value ...  50 is too much
19:43:48  <chillcore> 170 in trunk for 4096**
19:43:52  <chillcore> soon 85
19:43:57  <chillcore> or 87
19:44:10  <chillcore> yu can raise to 255 manually
19:44:16  <Samu> intersting, found one at 164, but not river
19:47:05  <Rubidium> rivers are limited to maximum height - 1
19:47:43  <Rubidium> that is, there must be at least 4 tiles directly around it higher than the spring tile
19:47:55  <chillcore> thank you for the info Rubidium
19:48:22  <Samu> but i placed a river at 0xff in scenario editor !
19:48:36  <chillcore> scenario editor is do whatever you want samu
19:48:47  <chillcore> even f-ing up things completely
19:48:50  <Rubidium> and there may not be tiles more than two levels higher within a 16 tile radius (but... that won't trigger at maximum height - 1)
19:48:52  <chillcore> noone will stop you
19:49:10  <chillcore> k
19:49:51  <andythenorth> new hogs
19:50:46  <andythenorth> hogs on bananas
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19:52:26  <chillcore> Cool, got a newGRF preset to share perhaps andy? <- for my soon-ish to start testgame
19:52:56  <chillcore> so many cool new stuffs and I have no clue where to start :P
19:53:37  <chillcore> Rubidium as I see it now I do not have anything to fix in regards of rivers
19:53:46  <chillcore> my terrain was simply to rough
19:54:08  <chillcore> read: not enough flat tiles
19:54:41  <V453000> I like that peter1138
19:54:51  <chillcore> this downtuning smoothness is like cooking for a hospital. :P
19:55:06  <Samu> 3rd version just posted on the forum chillcore
19:55:21  <Samu> it does nothing, but meh...
19:55:32  <Samu> white lines are improved, whatever that is
19:55:36  <chillcore> then I will not test samu
19:55:43  <andythenorth> chillcore: just pick everything by me :P
19:55:55  <andythenorth> can presets be shared on bananas?
19:55:59  * andythenorth was wondering about that
19:56:24  <chillcore> I'll have a look if you want samu but no use updating the patch in my queueu if you changed no  functionality
19:57:10  <Samu> "This improves documentation description and fixes some white lines."
19:57:13  <Samu> lel
19:57:36  <chillcore> hehe andy, might do that.
19:57:45  <chillcore> will not be before next week though
19:59:01  <Samu> what are white lines helpful for anyway?
20:01:07  <chillcore> readability samu ... if you want you can put a whole file on one line even
20:01:30  * andythenorth wonders how many useless community contributions we’d get of presets
20:01:41  <andythenorth> “this one enables every grf on bananas"
20:01:56  <chillcore> plenty and then some
20:02:43  <chillcore> also presets come with scenarios so you can put em on bananas
20:02:52  <andythenorth> it’s such a faff configuring newgrfs for a game
20:03:29  <chillcore> ye I have one with 255 in them that I have been using for like forever
20:03:33  <andythenorth> at least I have the privilege of setting all the defaults the way I want them :P
20:03:43  <chillcore> works in patchpack and first 64 in trunk
20:04:32  <chillcore> huhu
20:05:05  <chillcore> or huhuhuhu like ponies say
20:06:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: did you notice that you can upgrade presets in 1.5?
20:06:12  <andythenorth> yes :D
20:06:15  <andythenorth> it’s handy
20:06:18  <andythenorth> I use presets again now
20:06:23  <chillcore> oh nice
20:06:55  <andythenorth> if only there was some way we could make nice coop MP games faster, for rapid play
20:06:59  <andythenorth> we could play evening games again
20:07:25  <andythenorth> spending 55 minutes fighting the nightly, fighting the admin bot, fighting newgrfs and settings and GS and map-gen :(
20:07:29  <andythenorth> is boring
20:07:49  <Alberth> andythenorth:  Wasteland <- what does that road hog string means
20:08:09  <andythenorth> it’s the name of a possible roster, to go with Andrew350’s Wasteland grf
20:08:18  <andythenorth> nothing in it though, just proof of concept
20:08:43  <Alberth> oh that was the grf with the ruins houses
20:08:54  <Alberth> ruines*
20:08:57  <chillcore> k breaksie time to put some food under nose
20:09:08  <Alberth> enjoy chillcore
20:09:19  <chillcore> thx
20:13:07  <chillcore> samu: you do know you can include the version in the patchname; that way peeps at home know what they've got too
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20:46:10  <andythenorth> ho
20:46:26  <andythenorth> stable binary is much faster at ffwd on 1x UI zoom
20:46:37  <andythenorth> wonder if that’s OS X only, or on other platforms
20:46:46  <andythenorth> I use 2x UI zoom
20:48:06  <chillcore> ye I called apple ;)
20:49:11  <chillcore> I said "my friend ... ponies ..." they went "huhuhuhu" :P
20:49:16  * andythenorth wonders if the blitter tries to do anything with hardware
20:49:50  <chillcore> is it the same savegame?
20:50:11  <andythenorth> yeah
20:50:20  <andythenorth> the game, map etc is irrelevant afaict
20:50:32  <andythenorth> the significant factors are (1) full animation (2) UI zoom
20:53:03  <Samu> it's very slow for me with full animation
20:53:42  <Samu> stable binary is 1.5.0-RC1?
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20:54:22  <peter1138> full animation always is.
20:55:56  *** roidal [] has joined #openttd
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20:59:30  <Samu> waiting for bankrupt for testing
21:00:52  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
21:02:21  *** shirish_ [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
21:02:22  <Samu> what's your lock patch about?
21:03:25  *** shirish_ [~quassel@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:07:18  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08:12  *** shirish [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:29:22  <peter1138> locks
21:32:25  *** Bluelight [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 36.0.3/20150319201009]]
21:33:25  <Samu> i have a separate patch that corrects lock pricing
21:33:38  <Samu> is that it?
21:33:59  *** DanMacK [] has joined #openttd
21:34:05  <DanMacK> Hey all
21:34:11  <andythenorth> ho DanMacK
21:34:19  <andythenorth> was literaly about to type ‘bed for andythenorth’ :)
21:34:53  <DanMacK> lol, I figured I'd catch you or just miss you, lol
21:40:28  <chillcore> unlocks
21:41:01  <chillcore> First post of my topic updated with tgen light v 0.9.5
21:41:45  <chillcore> large maps are most tuned to my satisfaction ... perhaps some more finetuning of alpinist setting
21:42:07  <chillcore> 512** does not always yield nice result
21:42:30  <chillcore> remains to be done smaller maps (maybe include 521** as being small)
21:42:36  <chillcore> yay
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21:44:10  <chillcore> making small maps les boring now and should be ready for trunk?
21:44:35  <chillcore> unless someone gives me something else that needs "urgent" fixing
21:45:54  <chillcore> I removed v0.9 because not downloaded anyways :P
21:46:53  <Samu> i can't spot any bug even during bankrupts, company merging and so on
21:47:15  <chillcore> in regards of what samu?
21:47:19  <Samu> to me
21:47:24  <chillcore> ok
21:47:37  <chillcore> happy to see you are bugfree now
21:47:41  <chillcore> are yu a bot?
21:47:46  <chillcore> you?
21:47:56  <Samu> no, my patch
21:48:10  <Samu> what are your lock patch about
21:48:53  <Samu> i've got something you may like, brb
21:49:00  <chillcore> my lock needs key
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21:49:45  <chillcore> what are you talking about?
21:50:21  <Samu> didn't you say you edited part of lock code?
21:50:26  <chillcore> bet he is getting his candy van
21:50:48  <chillcore> eh?
21:51:05  <chillcore> when should I have said that?
21:51:46  <chillcore> who are you talking to?
21:51:52  <Samu> you
21:51:59  <Samu> my lock patch
21:52:08  <chillcore> do you have another chat open and this is the wrong window?
21:52:14  <Samu> no i don't
21:52:19  <chillcore> k just checking
21:52:43  <Samu> when you were helping with my editing you mentioned something happening with locks
21:52:58  <Samu> lower part upper part
21:53:37  <chillcore> ye  I mentioned removing a lock and there being two canal tiles which I mistook for being rivers
21:54:02  <chillcore> I then corrected myself and no I did not say anything about writing another patch
21:54:10  <chillcore> I do one at a time
21:54:28  <chillcore> see my hui version has been on hold completely while doing the light version
21:54:33  <chillcore> gui*
21:55:02  <Samu> i thought I had this posted somewhere in the forum, apparently I haven't
21:55:06  <Samu> grrr
21:56:50  <chillcore> I remember tehtalk about the price of locks
21:57:44  <chillcore> IIRC you were told that it would be better to modify/create a basecost NewGRF
21:58:28  <chillcore> then you started modifying the params of one
21:58:44  <chillcore> then things went apeshizz with rivers :P
21:59:08  <chillcore> no idea what happened with your modifications ... you forgot about that?
21:59:36  <Samu> ah in basecosts
21:59:53  <chillcore> ye that one
22:00:07  <Samu> I was testing a game with cheaper base costs for water related
22:00:14  <Samu> hmm structures
22:00:25  <chillcore> huhu because setting basecost is nigh impossible
22:00:26  <Samu> that was when I found the "bug"
22:00:42  <chillcore> toomany peeps have different opinions
22:00:47  <chillcore> on prices
22:00:55  <Samu> there's a calculation "bug" for building lock, as explained in point 1
22:00:57  <chillcore> hence basecost NewGRFs
22:01:09  <Samu> yes but it bases the price on clearing a water tile
22:01:20  <Samu> that's how I got into editing a patch instead
22:01:31  <chillcore> k
22:03:10  <chillcore> so you change from not counting the middle tile as canal to only counting it ...
22:03:16  <chillcore> and you remove comments
22:03:46  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
22:03:51  <chillcore> just the first two lines
22:03:54  <Samu> it's slightly complex because the price is simulated
22:03:59  <chillcore> god ucj with getting that excepted
22:04:09  <chillcore> good luck*
22:04:15  <Samu> hmm?
22:04:25  <Samu> try testing it yourself
22:04:34  <chillcore> why remove perfectly valid comments
22:04:39  <chillcore> that alone ...
22:04:45  <Samu> which ones, what lines
22:04:57  <chillcore> the first one
22:04:59  <chillcore> :P
22:05:37  <chillcore> hmm that comment was there twice ... still
22:05:38  <Samu> it was repeated
22:05:41  *** DanMacK [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:06:18  <chillcore> have you asked yourself why the middle tile was not counted as canal?
22:06:27  <chillcore> or someone else for that matter
22:06:57  <Samu> to achieve consistency I had to do that
22:07:06  <Samu> consistency in the whole pricing scheme
22:07:18  <chillcore> maybe there was/is a better reason to not do so
22:07:27  <Samu> it's not related to only lock, but the whole water structure based
22:07:35  <chillcore> ye
22:07:47  <Samu> say, docks for example
22:08:14  <Samu> i argued with planetmaker about that, I recall
22:08:44  <Samu> ah, here it is
22:08:51  <chillcore> ye and then some peeps
22:08:53  <Samu> the inconsinstencies that I found
22:18:00  <Samu> set the base cost for canal to something like... "free"
22:18:09  <Samu> then build a lock on a river tile
22:18:15  <Samu> BOOM you'll notice
22:19:09  <Samu> you need to use BaseCosts
22:19:12  <Samu> newgrf
22:19:36  <Samu> free is not 10k
22:22:05  <Samu> free costs for canal and lock, sorry
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22:23:51  <chillcore> system reboot ...
22:24:18  <Samu> ok, brb
22:28:42  <chillcore> hmm I just read the rest after "the inconsistencies ..."
22:29:31  <chillcore> "free s not 10k" you set cost for canal to free the 10 k comes form something else
22:29:40  <chillcore> which you do not seem to care about
22:30:05  <chillcore> ... anyhoo
22:30:12  <chillcore> smallmaps tuning
22:33:32  <chillcore> who needs four working sparkplugs ... if the car runs with three and a clogged fuel filter anyways
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22:48:59  <chillcore> sylf: how can you know if he/she was hit by account cleaning? he/she did not even say who was the previous account holder ...
22:49:12  <chillcore> ^^^ on the forums
22:49:43  <chillcore> best advice is to contact a mod instead of guessing :)
22:52:22  <Samu> back
22:54:01  <Samu> :(
22:54:16  <Samu> nobody ever gets what I'm saying
22:54:26  <chillcore> yes I do get it
22:54:43  <Samu> it comes from the price of clearing water
22:54:43  <chillcore> there is more costs calculated beside the lock when you destroy one
22:54:54  <chillcore> ye and clearing tiles
22:55:00  <chillcore> and clening up the mess
22:55:28  <chillcore> read the infrastructure costs topic
22:55:31  <chillcore> and then some
22:56:17  <Samu> maybe the comment is in the wrong place /* Add an extra cost only if not building on a river. */
22:56:36  <chillcore> i am not refering to this or that line
22:57:06  <chillcore> after "the inconistencies ... lalala"
22:57:10  <chillcore> I disconnected
22:57:35  <chillcore> so what you wrote inbetween that and me reconnecting I di not read untill I checked the logs
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22:58:06  <chillcore> o/
22:58:24  <Samu> i better start from the beginning again
22:58:30  <chillcore> no it is fine
22:58:39  <chillcore> I get it
22:58:45  <Samu> :)
22:58:46  <chillcore> even if I do not agree
22:58:54  <chillcore> it is not me that needs convincing
22:59:01  <chillcore> I have no commit powers
22:59:15  <chillcore> thank god for all of you
22:59:20  <chillcore> and me:P
23:00:32  <supermop> hi
23:00:37  <Samu> issue number 1 is definitely flawed
23:00:47  <Samu> as for the issue number 2... yeah, I agree
23:00:52  <Samu> optional
23:01:16  <Samu> i just added it there only for a pricing consistency
23:01:37  <chillcore> nice to see you agree ith yourself ;)
23:01:45  <chillcore> hehe
23:01:49  <Samu> then i added an explanation
23:01:53  <chillcore> yes
23:02:55  <chillcore> supermop: feel like drawing some rocks?
23:03:13  <chillcore> I was not well awake this morning
23:03:26  <supermop> maybe
23:03:33  <supermop> ogfx style?
23:03:46  <chillcore> they can be added as NewGRF
23:03:56  <chillcore> yeah and maybe orignals too?
23:04:02  <chillcore> if you feel like it that is
23:04:13  <Samu> reproducing the bug/issue/problem number 1: use basecosts, set build cost for canal and lock to "free"
23:04:19  <Samu> then start a game
23:04:25  <Samu> build a lock on 3 river tiles
23:04:35  <Samu> you get a cost of £10k
23:04:43  <Samu> because that is the cost for clearing the river tile
23:04:45  <chillcore> and no rush the code is not running nowhere anytime soon
23:04:52  <Samu> this cost shouldn't be accounted for
23:05:23  <Samu> then do the same, but also set the clear cost for water to "free"
23:05:38  <chillcore> supermop: if you scale them down you could even use em as decoration in one of your own grfs ;)
23:05:39  <Samu> build a lock again on 3 river tiles, now it's much closer to free
23:05:57  <Samu> therefore, the cost for clearing a water tile is the problem
23:06:22  <Samu> the water isn't cleared nor accounted for costs for the upper and lower parts, then why would it be for the middle part?
23:06:33  <Samu> that is what I've done
23:06:47  <Samu> I made it free
23:07:04  <supermop> trying to get a little mountain switchback/zigzag to hold two trains.
23:07:12  <chillcore> ye and you removed the 'other' costs at the same time samu
23:07:25  <supermop> it's two stations, with one tile with signal between
23:07:26  <Samu> the other costs is the cost of clearing river tile
23:07:36  <Samu> it's free for the upper tile and lower tile
23:07:39  <Samu> so i removed the cost
23:07:47  <Samu> for the middle tile as well if it's not a water tile
23:07:50  <Samu> ie. a river
23:07:50  <chillcore> fine samu
23:08:27  <chillcore> hmm sounds cool supermop
23:08:35  <supermop> so uphill train runs up and waits in far part of station, waits for downhill train to enter near part and reverse downhill
23:08:47  <supermop> then uphilltrain continues up
23:09:10  <chillcore> hehe I once made a rout up where the train had to reverse each time to reach the next level
23:09:18  <chillcore> route*
23:09:25  <supermop> needs very precise schedule to keep from jamming though
23:09:36  <chillcore> I can imagine
23:09:56  <chillcore> goota love openttd ... so much room for faffing around
23:10:18  <supermop> then i realized that the station could be replaced with a depot as train in one direction would not leave depot until path was clear
23:10:30  <Samu> as for the issue number 2
23:11:00  <supermop> but depot on mountainside doesn't look as good as small switchback siding
23:11:28  <chillcore> ye ... I always disable trains turning at signals; just let it wait forever and ever
23:11:34  <Samu> building a lock on 3 bareland adds 2 canal tiles at upper and at lower, but the middle one didn't have any associated cost, so I based it on the cost of placing a canal, it is a simulated cost
23:12:28  <chillcore> I did not have trains comming down the same route
23:12:31  <Samu> this cost however is only to achieve a consistency behaviour in pricing, though I know that changing the cost for building the lock itself would result the same
23:12:42  <chillcore> just wanted to check if trains would find their way up
23:12:56  <chillcore> zig zag and had to reverse like 10 times
23:12:58  <Wolf01> 'night
23:13:00  <chillcore> worked fine
23:13:04  <chillcore> night wolf
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23:14:05  <chillcore> I should still have that game but where :P
23:15:53  <chillcore> I rreally should get all my stuff sorted on my homeserver some day
23:16:26  <chillcore> it is not unsorted on there ... just not yet on there
23:20:45  <supermop> i think the depot looks worse than the small siding, but better than the big siding that fits two trains
23:21:07  <supermop> cute NG trains spoiled if you have bulky infrastructure
23:21:26  <chillcore> Fake depots newGRF ?
23:22:10  <supermop> i could pretend the depot is a little shed for the crew to shelter from the snow
23:22:26  <chillcore> ye
23:25:21  <Samu> i just put all my patches in 1 topic
23:25:37  <Samu> that topic is becoming a bloody mess
23:25:42  <Samu> but whatever
23:25:51  <Samu> that's how you want it
23:26:28  <supermop> sidings are more complex to schedule
23:26:31  <supermop> so more fun
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23:27:44  <Samu> i can't delete my posts
23:27:46  <Samu> great
23:27:54  <Samu> i hate forums
23:28:39  <supermop> after the new siding extension i only have 1.7 million yen, so i cant buy the other train anyway
23:29:06  <supermop> time to optimize passenger schedule elsewhere and wait for money
23:29:17  <chillcore> hmm why would you want to delete posts samu?
23:29:42  <chillcore> ye supermop fun is where it is at
23:30:37  <chillcore> I always set up some 5-stop busroute in 2 town and a train to connect them as moneymaker
23:30:52  <chillcore> still have to wait sometimes early game
23:31:03  <chillcore> and I am not afraid to cheat :P
23:32:48  <chillcore> all your patches except the last two are the same subject samu
23:32:52  <Samu> those middle topics look so out of context, unneeded, why would I keep them
23:33:18  <chillcore> it is part of history now ;)
23:33:29  <chillcore> and it is not a beauty contest anyways
23:33:55  <chillcore> development is dirty work sometimes, no shame in that
23:34:19  <chillcore> you start with something ... learn something new and have to change course
23:34:43  <chillcore> what is worse is someone deleting all his posts because he feels a bit PMSy
23:35:00  <chillcore> not going to name names but he screweda lot of peeps over by doing that
23:35:17  <chillcore> people replying to stuff that was not there no more
23:35:31  <chillcore> very disrespectfull
23:35:48  <chillcore> and then when he left finally over something really stupid
23:36:24  <chillcore> he did something else again just because ... unjustified grudge
23:36:32  <chillcore> anyhoo
23:37:20  <chillcore> anyway I see nothing wrong with your topic
23:37:47  <chillcore> except for them last two patches ... no idea why you put them in that topic
23:39:58  <chillcore> I really do not see them out of context samu, just a change of pace
23:40:03  <chillcore> better direction
23:40:16  <chillcore> clearer idea of what needed t o be done
23:40:32  <chillcore> if you check other topics that happens all the time
23:40:47  <chillcore> eg. my tgen topic
23:41:04  <chillcore> first few post have a "help" link in the screenshots
23:41:17  <chillcore> a few post later I have todo patches in my queue
23:41:27  <chillcore> last few patches dont have those
23:41:38  <chillcore> and there isnow a light version
23:41:49  <chillcore> that is 4 things but all the same subject
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23:52:16  <Samu> "Canal ownership sharing, Water-based structures and Rivers" - Oil Rig Layout still fits for this topic title
23:52:58  <Samu> but not the main content of the first post
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23:53:41  <chillcore> first post as you mentioned is a draft of ideas?
23:55:12  <chillcore> my patchpack? about 50patches in one if not more
23:55:20  <chillcore> same for new map fetures
23:55:37  <chillcore> cargodist is composed of about 10 patches
23:55:49  <chillcore> nothing to worry about
23:55:52  *** shirish__ [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:56:19  <chillcore> your topc is about water
23:58:18  <chillcore> second post is some feedback from a decently skilled coder
23:58:33  <chillcore> you worry to much

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