Log for #openttd on 3rd April 2015:
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00:20:36  <Flygon> Supercheese: It's a dumb comparison
00:20:49  <Flygon> Everyone knows the entire Library of Congress scanned costs more than 3TB
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00:41:14  <supermop> i cant tell if double or single columns look better
00:42:20  <supermop> that  is a column right on the tile edge that sort of overlaps with the same column on next tile, or one set in from th edge to look better if there is no next tile, but doubles up if there is
00:44:37  <supermop> these double columns look ok:
00:44:38  <supermop>
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01:35:18  <supermop> yo Pikka
01:42:38  <supermop> oops brb
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02:03:52  <Pikka> k
02:30:40  <V453000> hello gentlehumanz
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03:02:38  <supermop> alright
03:02:47  <supermop> just had terrace beer and cheese picnic
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03:55:03  <supermop> who's ready for cast iron?
03:55:57  <Pikka> meeeeeeee
04:01:05  <supermop> ok rendering is taking a bit
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04:22:33  <supermop> need better msking around the edges on these
04:22:43  <supermop> but haven't cleaned up in PS yet
04:23:29  <supermop>
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04:30:57  <supermop> need some glazing over the ends on the shed now
04:33:23  <supermop> and i guess a headhouse
04:33:31  <supermop> but that may be out of scope
04:36:09  <supermop> better to do shelter for the open platforms first
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05:21:23  <supermop> can hear a steam train outside
05:27:28  *** chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1002:8400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd
05:27:56  <chillcore> good morning interwebz o/
05:28:49  <supermop> yo chillcore
05:29:08  <chillcore> hello supermop
05:29:54  <chillcore> the details on your model are just WOW ;)
05:30:08  <chillcore> in a good way
05:30:29  <supermop> haha well you won't be able to see that much of it in game
05:30:42  <chillcore> I hope you will be able to re-use them for a game where they shine
05:30:53  <supermop> now im doing the small building for the outdoor platform
05:31:08  <chillcore> maybe sell them as assets in unity ;)
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05:32:29  <chillcore> looking forward to see the rest
05:32:45  <cctvs> ㅎᆢ읎
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05:37:30  <chillcore>
05:38:58  <chillcore> 05:06:20
05:39:22  <V453000> yarr
05:39:38  <chillcore> 05:04:30 that should have been ;)
05:39:41  <chillcore> hehe
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05:39:52  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
05:40:01  <chillcore> then go back to 00:00:00 :P
05:40:10  <chillcore> o/ hello alberth
05:40:12  <Alberth> more sleep!
05:40:26  <Alberth> hi hi
05:40:29  <supermop> hmm 3m or 4m
05:40:32  <supermop> hi Alberth
05:40:38  <supermop> hi V453000
05:40:58  * chillcore sends sandman to Alberth
05:41:52  <Alberth> ZZZzzzzzzzzz
05:43:17  <V453000>
05:43:20  <V453000> WHOLE LENGTH
05:46:24  <Alberth> hmm, I haven't had any coffee yet :)
05:46:39  <V453000> also, how the fuck is this genre called :D I want it
05:47:21  <Alberth> euhm, still busy with your previous link :p
05:47:46  <V453000> the second is more efficient in time:holy shit ratio
05:53:27  <Alberth> weird :)
05:54:24  <chillcore> I'd class that under holy dubstep? second link
05:54:28  <chillcore> :P
05:54:37  <chillcore> or un-
05:54:42  <V453000> YES
05:54:46  <V453000> TO EVERYTHING
05:55:11  <chillcore> still got two hours left on my link though ...
05:55:40  <V453000> I had to wake up at 4am today so I need something more efficient
05:55:45  <chillcore> hehe
05:56:34  <chillcore> my dad would call that "TURN THE VOLUME DOWN ... we can't talk no more down here! .. thx"
05:57:09  <V453000> WRONG ATTITUDE
05:57:47  <chillcore> ah not if he's two floors down ... and really can't hear no more what the other person is saying
05:57:50  <chillcore> xD
05:57:58  <V453000> XD
05:58:00  <V453000> ok
05:59:12  <chillcore> and that was me listening to deep purple, something  he likes too ... his own records
06:22:25  <Flygon>
06:23:40  <chillcore> hehe
06:23:57  <chillcore> no signals?
06:24:15  <Flygon> Dunno. I can't afford the game.
06:24:58  <chillcore> oh ok.
06:25:08  <chillcore> I don't have it neither
06:26:42  <chillcore> got burnt too many times searching for a replacement for RCT and RCT2
06:27:14  <Alberth> round-about is special in the sense you need to have at least one segment free in order to have it flow
06:27:21  <chillcore> huhu
06:27:55  <Alberth> so 'next segment is free' isn't enough to allow entry
06:28:51  <Alberth> as you do with 'normal' tracks
06:29:29  <supermop> what game is that?
06:29:40  <Alberth> a game of deadlock :p
06:29:44  <Flygon> I keep trying to figure out how to make more compact and efficient rail junctions in OpenTTD
06:29:46  <Flygon> But I can't
06:29:52  <Flygon> Diagonal bridges/tunnels are impossible
06:30:02  <Flygon> If I could build in a 3D space, I'd, like
06:30:07  <Flygon> Build far better junctions :B
06:30:19  <Flygon> Cloverleafs suck ass and take too much space for a good speed D:
06:31:06  <Alberth> I invent new ones each time :)
06:31:27  <chillcore> hehe I don't know if I ever posted that WTF 10 tile junction ...
06:31:31  <Alberth> not in the last place because the terrain is different each time
06:32:22  <chillcore> and yeah I go with what I can pull of too depending on terrain
06:32:50  <Flygon> I do generally try to make it up on the spot
06:33:03  <Flygon> But, if you truly really need a true 4-way junction...
06:33:15  <Flygon> You need a Cloverleaf for anything sensible
06:33:55  <Alberth> I hardly ever need those
06:34:09  <Flygon> Though, of course
06:34:19  <Flygon> Cloverleafs still have weaving problems...
06:34:33  <Flygon> So you need to create an even LARGER cloverleaf just to avoid weaving congestion
06:34:47  <Flygon> And I aint getting into if there's more than 2 tracks on either line <_>
06:35:12  <Alberth> you have too much traffic then :)
06:37:56  <Flygon> Yes
06:39:41  <chillcore>
06:39:51  <chillcore> flygon: last post ...
06:41:37  <chillcore> it should not deadlock ...
06:41:42  <Flygon> You and I play very differently x3
06:41:47  <Flygon> I tend to try and aim for asthetics
06:41:57  <chillcore> hey hey ...
06:42:02  <chillcore> xD
06:42:19  <Flygon> Whaaat?
06:42:22  <Flygon> I can't lie to you!
06:42:25  <chillcore> the second has room for a statue
06:42:25  <Flygon> I like you too much!
06:42:30  <Flygon> ...
06:42:39  <chillcore> Thank you ... I appreciate that
06:42:49  <Flygon> Well
06:42:54  <Flygon> I can't deny the statue bit
06:43:07  <Flygon> I'm laughing too hard at how good of a point you have
06:43:29  <chillcore> you're welcome
06:44:17  <chillcore> infact there are 9 spots left ;)
06:44:29  <chillcore> for trees and shizz
06:47:16  <chillcore> but yeah as I try to terraform as little as possible my games often do not have such junctions
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06:47:27  * Flygon nod
06:47:37  <Flygon> I do need to learn to terraform a bit less
06:49:29  <chillcore> gosh ... flamewar waiting to happen
06:49:32  <Alberth> add insanely high costs to it :)
06:50:28  <chillcore> 1.5.0 topic ... sarcasm and interwebz ... no good mix without smilies
06:51:57  <Alberth> </sigh>
06:53:54  <chillcore> Flygon: I use the smallest size terraform tool and try to resist doing more then two three tiles if the utoslope is no use
06:54:05  <chillcore> autoslope*
06:54:14  * Flygon nod
06:55:54  <chillcore> nods*
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07:22:27  <chillcore> hmm twente is giving me the finger ... or rather  my browser is
07:23:00  <chillcore> might it be  good isdea to add a clone link to the download page for stable releases?
07:23:08  <chillcore> -s
07:23:33  <chillcore> where is the braches location again ...
07:23:39  <chillcore> branches*
07:23:48  <chillcore> Moar coffee Moar
07:24:21  <Supercheese> I dunno, sometimes I think coffee has a reverse effect on me and makes me sleepier
07:25:10  <chillcore> hehe
07:26:06  <chillcore> you know that most brands of thee have more caffeine in them per cup then coffee has?
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07:27:16  <chillcore> but true that substances often have different effects on peeps
07:27:23  <planetmaker> moin
07:27:35  <chillcore> o/ planetmaker
07:28:03  <supermop> time for platform shelters
07:28:20  <supermop> but these aren't going to keep anyone warm...
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07:31:44  <Supercheese> Friggin' airships refuse to land properly at the new helipad layouts I try and provide
07:32:35  <Supercheese> maybe I should try a water airport for those seaplanes instead, I'm not very fond of the existing sea airport grf
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07:34:42  <Pikka> friggin airships indeed
07:41:06  <supermop> ok! even more cast iron is done, fresh from the foundry
07:41:37  <supermop> and then left out to get rusted and pitted, painted over, left for the paint to peel off,
07:41:47  <supermop> then finally painted again:
07:41:49  <supermop>
07:43:22  <chillcore> nice  nice ... and yes keep the cc
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07:45:20  <supermop> i think that makes more sense than the little house to the side
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07:46:13  <chillcore> you really can keep all of the above ...
07:46:16  <supermop> I'd like to provide a small cute victorian or edwardian station house, but as a separate building to be build to the side
07:46:53  <supermop> it's just too cramped in the space between the rail and tile edge
07:47:00  <planetmaker> easy approach, supermop : separate station tile to be selected by player
07:47:08  <supermop> yes
07:47:40  <planetmaker> except if it fits on the single-track tiles next to the tracks - thus default one-track layout could include it. Dunno what you envision exactly
07:48:03  <planetmaker> anyhow, your steel versions look awesome as well :)
07:48:19  <supermop> i think the default should just have the shelter
07:48:45  <supermop> player can then build station house themselves wherever they want
07:49:05  <chillcore> if sets do not provide the single tile option, I just build the complete station and delete tiles as needed
07:49:06  <supermop> saves selective rebuilding to remove extraneous station houses
07:49:19  <chillcore> having the option is nice though
07:49:48  <supermop> also the default house is always on the north platform, sometimes you may want to choose to have it to the south
07:51:31  <supermop> for the default single platform, should the shelter be the full tile length or half tile (both are shown in renderings)?
07:51:54  <supermop> full tile would let it combine with other tiles next to it
07:52:34  <supermop> but half tile centered is more like default ogfx behavior (small building centered on center tile of platform)
08:00:10  <supermop> Pikka: we need to find a good procedural eucalyptus tool
08:00:20  <Pikka> I'm working on it ;)
08:00:34  <Pikka> although I'm also working on 1200 words due by midnight, so...
08:01:06  <supermop> flamingo 2.0 has a bunch of tropic and Mediterranean plants but no gum trees...
08:01:17  <supermop> well goodspeed
08:01:17  <Pikka> definitely going to use procedural drawing rather than 3d modelling for trees, ground tiles and probably people.
08:01:51  <supermop> people.. hmm i think i'll do like i did in arch. school
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08:02:56  <supermop> and composite in desaturated translucent photos of people
08:02:56  <Pikka> I have a few ideas
08:03:02  <Pikka> but no time to work on them right now :)
08:03:08  <supermop> yyeah
08:04:18  <supermop> rendered people aren't going to look good without professional level modelling and rendering
08:04:33  <Pikka> well
08:04:45  <Pikka> they're going to be 10px tall in OpenTTD
08:04:48  <Pikka> even in EZ
08:04:48  <V453000> even in x4 people are still small :)
08:04:54  <Pikka> so don't go too overboard :P
08:04:55  <V453000> (: yeah
08:04:56  <V453000> hi :P
08:05:22  <V453000> thats why I ask about the "rendered with actual openttd setup" supermop, I think some details will just be completely invisible
08:05:58  <V453000> if you just make people as a set of slightly edited cylinders, they will be good enuf already
08:06:12  <V453000>  cylinders/capsules :)
08:06:22  <V453000> for example, a yeti dude in the game is 1/3rd of a tile tall
08:06:49  <V453000> which is majorly oversized to get any sight of details
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08:06:58  <supermop_> yeah thats why i think i can get away with almost abstract drawings or photos - you just need the effect of human noise on platforms
08:07:07  <V453000> yes
08:07:46  <supermop_> just something to create a feeling of claustrophobia so you know that your station is packed
08:08:16  <supermop_> i do like the pixel people in japan stations
08:08:31  <supermop_> totally out of scale but still tiny
08:08:45  <supermop_> yet at 4x you can tell what they were going for
08:09:34  <supermop_> there's a schoolgirl, bussiness man, mom with kid
08:10:02  <planetmaker> yep, the japanese set does an excellent job in that regard
08:10:55  <supermop_> i never noticed for sure but i also think they wear more black and navy in early 20th c, more colorful t-shirts in modern era
08:11:10  <V453000> xd
08:11:38  <Pikka> ooh
08:11:45  <supermop_> for simplicity my set is set in new york so everyone wears black
08:12:11  <supermop_> maybe victorian times so everyone is wearing a hat too
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08:12:30  <supermop_> just amorphous charcoal tubes
08:12:43  <supermop_> hmm why dos it say i just quit?
08:13:06  <Pikka> you joined just before you said "yeah thats why i think i can get away with almost"
08:13:33  <Pikka> I blame peter1138
08:13:56  <supermop_> hmm
08:14:03  <supermop_> now i have an underscore
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08:14:56  <Pikka> don't shout or everyone will want one
08:15:27  <supermop_> should have gone for pipe separator instead
08:15:59  <supermop_> so someone was running a steam train on the metro line near here today
08:16:23  <supermop_> we are not even that close to the line and i could hear the whistle clearly
08:23:08  <supermop_> hmmm. now what.  not sure if i should go further down the rabbit hole making all the accouterments for the early rail style station or move on to the caternary roof  monorail style one
08:23:44  <planetmaker> supermop_, I think V453000 has a fair point: you've definitely gone far already with your models, it looks also to me like it would soonish be a good time to actually get the setup render actual sprites
08:23:57  <supermop_> that one is a bit more interesting to me, but i've yet to consider how to design it and my head is in a very 19th c place
08:24:27  <planetmaker> so that one can get an impression as of how it looks ingame - which is certainly also a very valuable feedback for you yourself
08:24:34  <supermop_> planetmaker: fair enough. didn't know if it was worth doing benches and signs now
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08:24:51  <planetmaker> for that reason :) Though I think it is
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08:25:14  <planetmaker> beauty is in the details :)
08:25:15  <V453000> I mainly meant for yourself, people are cute but meh; if you model everything, then render it into the game and discover you want to re-model most of it, you will be disappointed and unmotivated :)
08:25:22  <V453000> and yes
08:25:31  <V453000> details matter, even if they are not recognizable in the game much
08:26:15  <V453000> they make the impression of not-empty stuff and show that the graphics have been put effort into
08:26:58  <Alberth> and they're great for the advertorial poster! ;)
08:27:30  <planetmaker> :)
08:27:51  <V453000> + that
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09:20:43  <chillcore> and our newest member is a ... spammer yay
09:21:15  <chillcore> gotta give our mods credit ... so little shows up on the forums:bow:
09:23:14  <chillcore> ^^^ hmm that was the second newest
09:23:17  <chillcore> anyhoo
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09:31:36  <Supercheese> new anti-spam bot is in place now too
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09:46:53  <chillcore> robobot? what do you mean by 'new'? as in replaced in the last few days?
09:48:04  <chillcore> but yeah does a neat job for what it is designed for
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10:01:38  <chillcore> also phpBB has a standard option to dissallow signatures untill x post are made ... if spammers see that they think twice before even trying
10:01:53  <chillcore> but owen does not like enabling mods much
10:02:06  <chillcore> can't blame him ... takes maintenance often
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10:36:14  <supermop_> anyone here used skrill?
10:36:24  <supermop_> my client wants to use it to pay me
10:37:19  <argoneus> B L O C K S I G N A L S
10:37:21  <argoneus> supermop_: why?
10:37:24  <argoneus> like if it's legit?
10:38:25  <supermop_> i guess
10:38:31  <supermop_> ive never heard of it
10:38:42  <supermop_> name sounds kinda silly
10:39:02  <chillcore> they are cool ;)
10:39:19  <argoneus> supermop_: I've seen them used for some mmos
10:39:23  <argoneus> and no one complained
10:39:27  <chillcore> also minecraft
10:39:28  <argoneus> they're wannabe paypal basically
10:39:35  <argoneus> it's legit enough
10:39:35  <chillcore> huhu
10:40:45  <chillcore> that being said I do not use em to receive money
10:40:54  <chillcore> only to pay for stuffs
10:41:25  <chillcore> I charge y account with my anonymous bankcard
10:42:01  <chillcore> which steam does no longer accept since they can't do their thing with it
10:42:08  <chillcore> read: redraw
10:42:50  <chillcore> anyhoo
10:43:33  <supermop_> hmm
10:44:05  <chillcore> if you register a banc account with steam they send some pennies and redraw them too
10:44:23  <chillcore> my account does not allow sending without special code
10:44:48  <chillcore> if you send me some moneyz without code the money bounces right back to you
10:46:22  <chillcore> but yeah skrillex is ok
10:52:09  <chillcore> and skrill too :P
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11:35:24  <Alberth> hola
11:37:51  <frosch123> moin
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12:09:53  <Samu> hi
12:10:34  <Samu> i need help resolving a very peculiar situation
12:11:00  <Samu> prospecting oil rigs on canals owned by competitors
12:11:15  <Samu> or by random spawning on canals owned by competitors
12:12:17  <Samu> the problem is: it fails to build an oil rig during clearance test, because the canal has a owned
12:12:22  <Samu> owner*
12:12:47  <Samu> how can i come up with a solution for this?
12:15:33  <supermop_> sounds fine, i mean i don't want someone blocking my canals with rigs
12:16:17  <Samu> it is funded via prospecting or random generating
12:16:33  <Samu> foudning via fund brings up the error
12:16:44  <Samu> unless the canal is already your
12:17:44  <Samu> brb
12:18:27  <Samu> alright, funding oil rig on my own canal -> allowed
12:18:39  <Samu> funding oil rig on competitor canal -> not allowed
12:19:03  <Samu> prospesting oil rig and if it ends on my own canal -> not allowed
12:19:07  <Samu> there's the bug
12:20:15  <Samu> prospecting vs random spawning, i'd like to separate the behaviour
12:22:15  <Samu> the code says /* Prospected industries are build as OWNER_TOWN to not e.g. be build on owned land of the founder */
12:22:57  <Samu> i wanted to add an exception for the case of those owned land are canals
12:24:06  <supermop_> but what if it randomly spawns on a segment of my canals i wanted to keep free for something else
12:24:22  <supermop_> then i have no way to remove it without cheating
12:24:41  <Samu> then you don't prospect
12:24:50  <supermop_> just like if i prospect a factory and it spawns in my owned land, i'd be pissed
12:25:28  <supermop_> idk sounds like insufficient justification
12:25:43  <supermop_> non-prospect building costs 10x as much
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12:26:00  <Alberth> but it fails less often :p
12:26:04  <Samu> i'd like to separate the behaviour prospecting vs random spawning
12:26:19  <Samu> if it's random spawning, then it's fine that it won't put on canals
12:26:26  <Samu> but if I am prospecting
12:26:31  <Samu> and it ends up on my canal
12:26:33  <supermop_> i think i should have a reasonable expectation if i have a turning basin at the headwaters of my canal that no oil rig will spawn there
12:26:39  <Samu> then why not allow it to happen?
12:27:22  <supermop_> because the user expects oil rigs to appear at sea, not in the middle of their transport infrastructure
12:29:51  <Samu> oil rig layout on its own, need quite a lot of water room, they won't block
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12:43:02  <Alberth> ie canals are not wide enough to ever have an oilrig?
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13:04:42  <Samu> savegame with canals everywhwere for testing ->!793&authkey=!AP9SB6DzugbOzTo&ithint=file%2csav
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13:25:27  <andythenorth> o/
13:26:09  <supermop_> hi andy
13:26:12  <supermop_>
13:27:57  <chillcore> meow o/
13:28:18  <supermop_> goodnight
13:28:28  <chillcore> goodnight ;)
13:28:35  <chillcore> and very nice
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13:44:07  <Pikka> what what
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13:47:23  <DanMacK> Hey all
13:47:33  <Pikka> hello dan
13:47:42  <Pikka> you missed andy by about 60 seconds :)
13:47:52  *** Flygon__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:48:10  <DanMacK> lmao of course I did, lol
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14:31:42  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i wonder how they actually ever got to know of each other's existence
14:32:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like this curse where one turns into an animal at day and the other at night. and the only time they can ever meet is during a solar eclipse
14:34:05  <andythenorth> he’s Canadian
14:34:09  <andythenorth> what can I say?
14:34:21  <andythenorth> or Australian
14:34:23  <andythenorth> who knows
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14:38:45  <andythenorth> cat report?
14:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> miau mio, miau mio.
14:40:21  <Eddi|zuHause> [this is from a story where the kid plays with matches and burns to ashes]
14:41:18  <andythenorth> too many bloody hg tags in FIRS
14:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> try CETS. exact opposite :p
14:42:06  <andythenorth> can I safely delete hg tags?
14:42:07  <andythenorth> o_O
14:42:21  <andythenorth> let’s find out
14:43:59  <planetmaker> andythenorth, no!
14:44:10  <planetmaker> it won't work and just screw you8
14:44:53  <chillcore> hmm I read that in a different way as intended ... :P
14:45:11  <chillcore> nvm me
14:45:55  <andythenorth> well
14:46:03  <andythenorth> I did it following the instructions
14:46:08  <andythenorth> so too late :P
14:46:54  * andythenorth wonders what will go wrong
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15:18:16  * andythenorth is some kind of empiricist :|
15:22:05  <Alberth> nothing wrong with that, isn't it?
15:23:11  <andythenorth> depends which button you press
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15:24:09  <andythenorth> and whether you break the repo
15:24:38  <Alberth> :(
15:25:01  <andythenorth> and whether you keep a record of the result :P
15:26:22  <Alberth> it gets more real as you keep it longer?
15:27:33  <Alberth> s/keep/experience/
15:27:42  <andythenorth> dunno yet :P
15:28:17  <andythenorth> waiting for more data
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15:30:10  <Alberth> does that exist? empiricism would see it as experiencing progress of time :)
15:38:42  * andythenorth makes new FIRS
15:38:45  <andythenorth> is that data?
15:40:25  * andythenorth bbl
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16:56:34  * andythenorth FIRS a bit
16:56:56  <chillcore> you fixed it?
16:56:57  <V453000> hm funny story
16:57:11  <V453000> went from work 5 hours ago, rawr terrain tiles rendering is like at 20%
16:57:17  <V453000> end of story
17:03:58  <andythenorth> cool story
17:04:00  <andythenorth> bro
17:04:25  <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me, i should check the copying process i started two days ago...
17:04:57  <chillcore> hehe
17:05:08  <V453000> oh yeah I should start copying our disk at work
17:05:15  <V453000> 1.8tb :/
17:05:30  <andythenorth> big
17:05:31  <V453000> and the stupid server it is on, has speed like 7mbps or such
17:05:37  <V453000> idk how long can that even take
17:06:04  <chillcore> calc 1024 * 1.8 / 7
17:06:11  <chillcore> @calc 1024 * 1.8 / 7
17:06:11  <DorpsGek> chillcore: 263.314285714
17:06:47  <chillcore> long
17:06:50  <V453000> XD
17:07:25  <andythenorth> burn it to CD-ROM
17:09:37  <Alberth> andythenorth: would it be useful to say a few things about start/end years of FIRS economies?
17:09:52  <Alberth> docs don't seem to address that
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17:40:48  <andythenorth> Alberth: perhaps :)
17:41:05  <frosch123> why is all ldap documentation so terrible?
17:41:05  <andythenorth> I think start / end years are a BAD FEATURE
17:41:15  <frosch123> i feel like i have to look into the source :/
17:41:22  <Alberth> frosch123:  :(
17:41:29  <andythenorth> of the people I know who have tried ldap
17:41:34  <andythenorth> all regretted the necessity
17:42:55  <Alberth> andy: perhaps
17:43:45  <andythenorth> did you encounter broken chains?
17:43:52  <andythenorth> or you just wanted info?
17:45:02  <Alberth> I just wanted to have an idea of when to start / end
17:45:37  <Alberth> ie I am talking about economies rather than industries
17:46:26  <andythenorth> I could add a string here?
17:46:38  <andythenorth> currently all economies are best started 1865 or so
17:47:17  <Alberth> adding a line there would be fine, imho
17:47:53  <Alberth> hmm, nuts doesn't start that early afaik
17:49:57  <andythenorth> I recommend about 1900 or so for starting games
17:50:01  <andythenorth> play 100 years
17:50:04  <andythenorth> fin
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17:50:47  <Alberth> nuts is about 1920, so I'll take that
17:52:38  <andythenorth> anyone playing Hog?
17:52:40  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:56:27  <Alberth> /me does very little with RVs
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17:57:45  <andythenorth> they’re probably cheating tbh
17:57:49  <andythenorth> no signals
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18:11:20  * andythenorth needs to recode FIRS
18:11:26  * andythenorth recodes FIRS
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18:17:31  <Alberth> :)
18:17:36  *** Tirili [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:21:21  * andythenorth accidentally plays OTTD instead
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18:31:44  <TrueBrain> poor andythenorth ...
18:31:46  <TrueBrain> THINK ABOUT THE CATS
18:31:50  <andythenorth> bloody cats
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18:33:45  * andythenorth dislikes rivers
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18:38:46  <titch> hello. wandering if could get some hwlp please
18:39:48  <frosch123> something wrong with your left hand?
18:40:32  <titch> yer. lol
18:40:49  <frosch123> can't help with that
18:41:00  <andythenorth> ha ha, ridiculous Iron Horse trains
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18:42:00  <chillcore> titch: no help untill you ask your question(s)
18:42:18  <chillcore> ;)
18:43:16  <titch> recently got 1.5 update and loadin up my ottd and its saying "the currently used base graphics set is missing a number of sprites. please update the base graphics set." im confused as to what this means. i have zbase as the graphics, does it mean that?
18:44:08  <frosch123> yeah, apparently noone released an update :p
18:44:24  <titch> oh, so all is ok then?
18:44:35  <andythenorth> whoever wrote ‘Wagon removal’ for auto-replace did a nice job
18:44:42  <andythenorth> keep finding nice working things
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18:45:29  <frosch123> tkt
18:45:31  <frosch123> jk
18:45:33  <frosch123> titch:
18:45:44  <frosch123> sorry, my right hand was broken :p
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18:47:11  <titch> :P
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18:49:39  <andythenorth> who made Iron Horse?
18:49:43  <andythenorth> it’s unrealistic
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18:51:10  <frosch123> sounds like a good thing
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18:51:37  <titch> so ive clicked the link, do i need to get all of the thing in that folder?
18:52:17  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:52:26  <frosch123> only
18:53:02  <frosch123> <- see section 3.2
18:53:26  <titch> cool. then ill need to find where its file is and put it in there right?
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18:56:24  <titch> dam internet -_-
18:56:37  <chillcore> titch: do not put files in content download manualy
18:57:08  <chillcore> see the readme for the correct loocation on your system
18:57:16  <titch> ok.
18:57:24  <chillcore> ;)
18:57:29  <titch> does the readme come with it
18:57:38  <titch> found it
18:57:38  <chillcore> it comes with openttd
18:57:43  <chillcore> ok
18:57:54  <frosch123> it's also written in the zbase readme linked above
18:58:35  <chillcore> nice to know frosch. thank you
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19:00:45  <titch> cheers
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19:18:52  <wsirc_6942> hi
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19:20:23  <wsirc_6942> How come you cant download zbase via new grf?
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19:26:47  <Wolf01> hi hi
19:27:14  <frosch123> yay, at least someone who is not going to ask about zbase :)
19:29:28  <Supercheese> all zbase are belong to us
19:30:03  <Wolf01> you should have a badge with "ask me about zbase"
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19:46:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it's all about zbase, 'bout zbase
19:54:49  <V453000> XD
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20:51:23  <wsirc_6942> I wish it was .D:D
20:52:33  <wsirc_6942> anyway how come you cant install 32bit directly ingame?
20:53:19  <frosch123> <- see the conversation bevore
20:53:21  <frosch123> *before
20:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause> a beevore feeds on solely on bees?
21:04:37  <FLHerne> wsirc_6942: You can
21:04:59  <FLHerne> wsirc_6942: It's not under newgrfs, because it isn't a newgrf
21:05:31  <FLHerne> Use the more generic online content button on the main menu
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22:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> "higher mountains that you've ever seen before"? ... except for anybody who played a patchpack in the last 5 years
22:03:34  <frosch123> thanks for volunteering to write the next news :)
22:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause> if it were still april 1st, i'd say "sure."
22:10:51  <frosch123> anyway, the news post does not address patchpack players
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22:11:09  <frosch123> no patchpack player noticed how broken mhl was
22:11:17  <frosch123> it only took a few days of nightly to notice
22:11:34  <frosch123> yet no nightly player noticed that ais were broken for non-english language
22:11:45  <frosch123> it only took one day for stable players to notice
22:12:20  <frosch123> that makes the news post address two magnitudes more people than patchpack players
22:12:42  <frosch123> so, i think it's pretty accurate
22:14:12  <Eddi|zuHause> well, ANY news is just horribly inaccurate if you are deep into the subject involved
22:15:09  <frosch123> yup, that's why i was never at cebit :p
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22:42:44  <larzconwell> I'm trying to make an armored vehicle "Go To" a gold mine, but I can't click anywhere at the gold mine to trigger the route
22:43:30  <ST2> larzconwell: you need to build a truck station
22:43:33  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to build a station
22:44:03  <chillcore> hmm so strange ...
22:44:08  <larzconwell> Ah yes thank you
22:44:20  <Eddi|zuHause> make sure it's a truck station, not a bus station
22:44:33  <ST2> \o/ I won the contest "i cna tpye 200 wodrs a mintue"
22:44:38  <larzconwell> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah I did, got it working now
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22:49:23  <chillcore> I fell asleep and was on a trip with *mumble* and *mumble*, there was this fair too, then someone I did not expect to see at all called my name and I woke up ...
22:49:51  <chillcore> AIs are broken in my patchpack?
22:49:55  <chillcore> XD
22:50:36  <chillcore> it my third Ieye I guess ...
22:50:37  <Supercheese> AIs are broken by many things
22:50:48  <frosch123> chillcore: did noai exist back then?
22:51:02  <chillcore> hmm yeah?
22:51:18  <frosch123> noai exists since 2009/2010
22:51:20  <chillcore> because my previous patchpack had the patch still
22:51:24  <frosch123> no idea when chillin was a thing :p
22:51:44  <chillcore> and I used my own AI all the time to build roads for me
22:51:47  <frosch123> hmm, it was chillpp, not chillin, right?
22:51:47  <chillcore> so yeah
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22:52:46  <chillcore> frosh: ok ;)
22:53:25  <chillcore> still half asleep ...
22:53:37  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: chillpp basically died during development of 1.2, when grfv8 was introduced
22:53:40  <chillcore> I saw mhl mentioned  ... must have been that
22:53:44  <chillcore> nvm
22:54:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose noai was before 1.0
22:54:25  <chillcore> yeah
22:54:28  <frosch123> noai was 0.7 :p
22:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> chillpp was forked in the 1.0/1.1 era
22:56:21  <chillcore> somewhen around that time ..; 1.0.5 savegames load
22:57:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. it couldn't load 1.1 savegames
22:58:05  <Eddi|zuHause> which should have been a fairly easy fix, btw. just nobody ever looked into it
22:58:44  <chillcore> I waited a few revisions to long maybe
22:59:08  <chillcore> also there is a ton of things to change due to one of the commits
22:59:37  <chillcore> +60000 lines of patchpack is not something you check in 30 mins
22:59:47  <chillcore> +-
23:00:04  <chillcore> hehe
23:01:15  <chillcore> 55329 to be exact
23:01:37  <chillcore> maybe some day  ...
23:02:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that probably means never :p
23:02:31  <Wolf01> 'night
23:02:37  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:02:58  <chillcore> it is not that I do not want to do so
23:03:00  <frosch123> i guess we are saturated with pp currently :)
23:03:04  <frosch123> i think there are at least 3
23:03:10  <chillcore> I tried like 4 times
23:03:14  <chillcore> and that
23:03:35  <chillcore> peeps were just not doing it no more
23:03:50  <chillcore> except a few
23:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not about the amount of patchpacks...
23:04:05  <frosch123> haha, yeah, the communityin was a big success :p
23:04:10  <chillcore> yeah
23:06:24  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway. besides daylength, the most requested feature for patchpacks i see is 24h clock and timetable management (for the hardcore synchronous netowrk managers) and "fire and forget" type of autoseparation for everybody else
23:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause> and all the patchpacks around totally fail at multiplayer
23:07:41  <chillcore> yeah I guess those are the major request for now
23:07:59  <frosch123> you forgot copy&paste :)
23:08:30  <frosch123> template based autoreplace was my favorite, but then i switched to playing shorter games
23:08:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't come up that often...
23:08:35  <Supercheese> a small but vocal subset also advocates custom bridgeheads
23:08:42  <frosch123> so i haven't used autoreplace at all in quite some time
23:08:49  <Supercheese> template autoreplace was quite nice
23:08:55  <chillcore> indeed I kept forgetting I had copypaste in at all
23:09:03  <chillcore> XD
23:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. someone should really review cirdan's patches, even if he refuses to cooperate...
23:09:16  *** oskari89 [] has quit []
23:09:31  <chillcore> he said I could do it and get them in trunk no prob
23:09:43  <chillcore> but that was then
23:09:43  <frosch123> trunk is busy with other stuff :p
23:09:54  <chillcore> yah fixing MHL ... grrr
23:10:02  <frosch123> anyway, custom bridgeheads are only suggested by people who know them from ttdp
23:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it feels like a lot of good work is wasted if it's not done
23:10:14  <frosch123> they are no thing that anyone new comes up with
23:10:16  <chillcore> true Eddi|zuHause
23:10:21  <frosch123> copy&paste is far more common there
23:10:51  <chillcore> brb nature calls
23:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i have never played custom bridgeheads in ttdp, and frequently think "i could build this better with cbh". especially for roads
23:11:39  <frosch123> really?
23:11:59  <frosch123> chillcore: it's more like everyone is filled up with keeping grfcodec, nml, opengfx and zbase alive
23:12:17  <frosch123> i.e. just yesterday someone posted some fixes to ogfx on the forums
23:12:20  <frosch123> ogfx is still not released
23:12:26  <frosch123> and everybody is asking about zbase
23:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, like rail sunken 1 level in a city, with road bridges over it, but a road is running parallel to the tracks as well
23:12:40  <frosch123> but before all of that, nml needs fixes to the packaing :p
23:12:44  <Supercheese> signals in tunnels/bridges is also nice
23:12:58  <frosch123> so, it's more like noone has time to work on ottd :p
23:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: always needs some weird curves around the bridge heads, where running straight across would look and behave better
23:14:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: i'm deeply opposed to that terrible implementation of signals on bridges/in tunnels that is floating around
23:15:05  <Supercheese> I am not aware of the details, but the concept is desirable
23:15:14  <Supercheese> long bridges/tunnels ruin signal spacing schemes
23:15:29  <Supercheese> implementation may indeed be sorely lacking in finesse
23:15:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: yes, but that implementation doesn't even fix that...
23:15:49  <chillcore> frosch: I totally understand and I am not pointing fingers, it is just that now you can add unplayabl terrain to that list
23:15:56  <chillcore> sadly enough
23:16:05  <chillcore> but again ... I understand
23:16:13  <chillcore> no time to test and shizz
23:16:19  <chillcore> stupid ISP of mine
23:16:23  <chillcore> soryy
23:16:27  <chillcore> sorry*
23:16:38  <chillcore> ex-ISP
23:17:16  <chillcore> I can help somewhere?
23:17:30  <chillcore> not MHL I mean ...
23:17:39  <chillcore> going to read back now
23:18:09  <Samu> hi
23:18:52  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: "always" :p
23:19:03  <frosch123> like only for short and flat bridges
23:19:17  <frosch123> it's irrelevant the longer the bridges become
23:19:25  <frosch123> and it does not affect sloped bridges at all
23:19:37  <Samu> when i'm letting the game randomly create a new industry, it is not using the code at line 1889 of industry_cmd.cpp
23:19:40  <frosch123> and as we all know, outside this channel noone plays on smaller than 1kx1k
23:19:50  <Samu> it's using some other part of the code
23:19:51  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, "always" under the conditions stated above (plus 'better roads' layout)
23:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: for all we know, nobody in this channel plays at all :p
23:20:37  <Samu> if (deity_prospect || (_game_mode != GM_EDITOR && _current_company != OWNER_DEITY && == 2 && indspec->IsRawIndustry())) {
23:20:38  <frosch123> andy claims to :p
23:21:24  <Samu> who's deity_prospect?
23:21:48  <Samu> OWNER_DEITY
23:21:53  <Samu> but, who's this?
23:21:54  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, there was talk about a lunar eclipse... is that visible here?
23:21:54  <frosch123> game scripts
23:22:10  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: lunar eclipses only happen at full moon
23:22:16  <Samu> ah, i see
23:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause> the moon was almost full last time i looked
23:23:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and the solar eclipse was 2 weeks ago
23:23:31  <frosch123> full moon was today 14:05
23:23:40  <Eddi|zuHause> ah
23:24:10  <frosch123> anyway, lunar eclipses happen about once a year
23:24:19  <Eddi|zuHause> sure
23:24:25  <frosch123> no relation to solar eclipses
23:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so you see them every 2 years
23:24:39  <Eddi|zuHause> since half of the time, it will be day
23:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> solar eclipses happen about as often
23:25:08  <Eddi|zuHause> just they are only visible from very small areas
23:25:48  <frosch123> are you sure?
23:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:26:00  <frosch123> partial eclipses are visible from a vast area
23:27:23  <frosch123> "Im 21. Jahrhundert finden insgesamt 224 Sonnenfinsternisse statt. Dies sind gegenÌber dem langjÀhrigen Durchschnittswert von 238 Sonnenfinsternissen pro Jahrhundert relativ wenige."
23:27:28  <frosch123> ok :)
23:28:43  <Eddi|zuHause> it's an easy statistical thought experiment that eclipses during full moon and eclipses during new moon happen at about the same chance
23:30:36  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: the "230" figure probably includes partial eclipses where no point on earth can see a full eclipse
23:32:31  <frosch123>
23:32:46  <frosch123> if you add "total" and "ring", you get 140 proper ones
23:35:32  <Samu> do you know of a script that has a OWNER_DEITY prospecting an industry?
23:35:50  <Samu> citybuilder actually funds industries, not prospects them
23:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause> so that basically confirms what i said. slightly more than one per year
23:42:01  <chillcore> chunnels and programmable signals would be nice to have too
23:42:15  <chillcore> and the option to not have trains go for the back of one-way signals
23:42:22  <chillcore> and then some
23:42:51  <Eddi|zuHause> loads of things would be "nice to have"
23:42:56  <frosch123> isn't the latter that weird coop signal setting?
23:43:13  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no, that is twoway_eol
23:43:26  <Eddi|zuHause> or firstred_twoway_eol
23:43:28  <Eddi|zuHause> or something
23:43:35  <chillcore> no it is more like: if this signal is green turn that one on the other side of the map red
23:43:45  <chillcore> without using rails
23:44:23  <chillcore> very basic programming but much neater then the way it is done now
23:44:35  <chillcore> prios and stuffs
23:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: "latter" == "the last one" [vs. "former" == "the first one"]
23:44:58  <chillcore> huhu
23:45:09  <chillcore> I made a booboo?
23:45:42  <Eddi|zuHause> <chillcore> and the option to not have trains go for the back of one-way signals <-- question was about this line
23:45:51  <chillcore> ok ...
23:46:10  <chillcore> I ws not refering to that ... my bad
23:46:22  <chillcore> please continue
23:46:28  <Eddi|zuHause> [at least that was how i read it]
23:46:36  <chillcore> I get it
23:46:49  <chillcore> sorry for not being specific enough
23:47:12  <chillcore> me grabs coffee xD
23:47:43  <chillcore> such a weird dream ...
23:49:56  <chillcore> <Eddi|zuHause> <chillcore> and the option to not have trains go for the back of one-way signals <-- question was about this line
23:51:00  <chillcore> I find that trains considering the back of a one-way pbs signal a safe waiting point breaks my playstyle
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23:51:17  <chillcore> I disable turning around at signals so I get deadlocks
23:51:23  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: only if trains get lost...
23:51:44  <chillcore> also if there is no other route free at that moment
23:52:18  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: please isolate a situation where it happens and post a savegame to flyspray
23:52:51  <chillcore> I may be able to find that FS ticket still
23:52:59  <chillcore> and may create a savegame yes
23:55:32  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: the pathfinder should discard routes that involve a back of a one-way-signal [aka end of line], if there is a valid path.
23:56:27  <chillcore> it may have changed ... I'll have a quick test
23:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: there are some valid situations where back of a one-way-signal should be treated as end of line. i remember discussions about allowing or disallowing this in the past, but i don't remebmer the outcome
23:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> especially there were discrepancy between behaviour of block signals and path signals
23:59:19  <chillcore> I remember the talk ... some of it ... then I added that in my patchpâck and forgot about it
23:59:56  <chillcore> when I load one of my old savegames trains are still waiting to never be allowed to advance because back of one-way

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