Log for #openttd on 7th April 2015:
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00:02:37  <TartarusMkII> Statues?
00:03:33  <Supercheese> Yes, click the town name, Local Authority, build statue
00:03:51  <Supercheese> it will boost your station ratings which boost your %transported which increase the chance the default industries will increase produciton
00:03:59  <Supercheese> but it is rather expensive
00:04:41  <TartarusMkII> I don't see town name- also because it's just one business. Do you mean for towns themselves?
00:04:58  <Supercheese> Here:
00:05:06  <Supercheese> the full rundown on default industries
00:05:37  <Supercheese> Also:
00:06:22  <TartarusMkII> thankyou a ton!
00:06:30  <TartarusMkII> Also, what is the purpose of founding a town? I can't find a wiki page aobut it
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00:09:15  <Supercheese> So you can have another town
00:09:22  <Supercheese> that's really about it; also it is extremely expensive
00:09:31  <supermop> pub stuff! Signage:
00:11:20  <TartarusMkII> ty ty
00:17:46  <Supercheese> Pannier Bitter
00:17:50  <Supercheese> Ha
00:18:11  <Supercheese> It's funnier if you pronounce Bitter like a French word
00:18:32  <supermop> heh
00:19:11  <Supercheese> huh, I had never heard of the Moa before
00:19:23  <Supercheese> now my knowledge of extinct species has increased
00:19:27  <supermop> hah
00:19:37  <supermop> they were pretty pretty big
00:19:45  <Supercheese> no kidding, the skeletons are amazing
00:20:15  <supermop> the stupid pun arose from thinking Moa would be a good name for an EMU set
00:20:43  <supermop> because i never do not think of the bird first when seeing EMU written out
00:21:28  <supermop> but yeah the sign doesnt work if the moa is twice the size of the camel
00:22:22  <supermop> isn't there a dutch DMU called kameel? man this is more of a multiple unit pun that i'd thought
00:22:55  <supermop> emus, dmus, and metro-cammel all in one
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00:24:58  <supermop> I think i'll do a ginzu lager and maybe a 4x stiyle shitty beer called 8P
00:30:24  <Supercheese> You could do a Wills Pils
00:30:35  <Supercheese> the Wills from arctic/tropical
00:32:20  <supermop> i've almost bever played the default vehicles from the other climates
00:32:50  <supermop> i only had tto, not ttd in the 90s so i never spent years with them pre-newgrf
00:33:25  <supermop> i could do more american style beers and ads for those climates
00:34:08  <supermop> australia is weird with generally more american style trains and trucks, but more british style beers
00:34:23  <supermop> building styles vary from region to region
00:34:54  <supermop> but Melbourne best described as a hotter drier englang
00:35:01  <supermop> england
00:35:20  <supermop> with bitter ales as the defacto mass beer
00:35:38  <supermop> the QLD beers are a bit more american/german
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01:35:58  <TartarusMkII> I am wondering if anyone has, on hand, any screen shots of someone's set up in the early game.
01:40:08  <Supercheese> Well, I do but I use dozens of newgrfs
01:40:27  <TartarusMkII> I'm still interested in what yo u choose to do =)
01:40:28  <Supercheese> if you're using default industries and vehicles you may in certain cases want to be doing things differently
01:40:37  <Supercheese> Maybe I should start a screenshot thread
01:41:12  <TartarusMkII> Yea, right now I am just focusing on trains for some reeeeeallllly basic stuff
01:42:13  <Supercheese> well I'll just upload some on third party sites for now
01:43:08  <Supercheese> Interested in trains eh?
01:43:48  <TartarusMkII> I actually wanted to prolong the time I had until I had to upgrade vehicles, so I start the game in 1925 lol
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01:44:05  <TartarusMkII> So I can only use trains to start (and I'm fine with that)
01:44:09  <Supercheese> I'll post some shots from the game I started in 1912
01:44:20  <TartarusMkII> cool thanks
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01:44:53  <TartarusMkII> my trains are starting to lose money rather than make it, not sure what to do aobut it <..>
01:45:16  <TartarusMkII> oh I see, the mine they were getting ore from closed down and I didn't ntoice
01:45:18  <TartarusMkII> why would it do that?
01:46:25  <Supercheese> sometimes the default industries just go kaput
01:46:30  <Supercheese> they are annoying like that
01:46:40  <Supercheese> it's covered on the Game mechanics page I linked earlier
01:46:43  <TartarusMkII> damn. so what do I do with the infrastructure I built for it? >..<
01:46:53  <Supercheese> well.... mostly sell it
01:47:03  <Supercheese> divert the trains elsewhere if it's connected to your network
01:47:08  <Supercheese> if you have a network
01:47:58  <TartarusMkII> *nod nods*
01:47:58  <TartarusMkII> I see.
01:48:09  <Supercheese> Here's the first train route I built:
01:48:23  <Supercheese> To begin the game I started with lots of ships
01:48:30  <Supercheese> since FIRS has fishing grounds
01:48:55  <Supercheese> The foundry at the bottom is fed scrap metal from that line...
01:49:13  <Supercheese> ...and bauxite from this station that is transferred by ships as shown in the first:
01:49:41  <TartarusMkII> I see, interesting
01:50:05  <TartarusMkII> Oh that's a cool structure
01:50:09  <Supercheese> The metal from the foundry, in turn, produces supplies which are fed back to the scrapyard and bauxite mine
01:50:17  <Supercheese> there's also a pumping station at the oil well shown there
01:50:30  <Supercheese> with an oil pipeline running to a refinery offscreen
01:50:36  <TartarusMkII> oh hah, that's really neat.
01:50:52  <TartarusMkII> I like those sets you've added, they fit with the art style that I prefer.
01:51:07  <TartarusMkII> I'd try to download stuff but I'd worry about accidentally getting something that is not compatible or would not fit
01:51:45  <Supercheese> Yeah I have, let's see... I have 72 grfs, not all of which actually do something (some are just dummy grfs)
01:51:48  <TartarusMkII> Very intreresting lay out.
01:51:56  <TartarusMkII> why dummys?
01:52:00  <Supercheese> to organize the list
01:52:13  <TartarusMkII> lol that's interesting
01:52:18  <Supercheese>
01:52:30  <Supercheese> things can get messy so I divide the list up
01:52:36  <Supercheese> helps keep things sane
01:52:54  <Supercheese> that is not the exact list I am using for the game I'm currently on
01:53:04  <TartarusMkII> holy crap haha wow
01:53:09  <Supercheese> but it's a good example of how things can get out of hand
01:53:20  <TartarusMkII> yea, totally
01:56:15  <TartarusMkII> I guess my biggest confusion is how to best use my starting 0k
01:56:48  <Supercheese> Ah, well, I use the money cheat :O
01:57:01  <TartarusMkII> pssh ;p
01:57:03  <TartarusMkII> I like the challenge
01:57:26  <Supercheese> However, a coal-hauling route is often desirable in early years
01:57:31  <Supercheese> with default industries
01:57:43  <Supercheese> aircraft can be insanely profitable but only in later years
01:59:02  <TartarusMkII> I noticed that the coal hauling makes a lot of money, yea
01:59:34  <TartarusMkII> should I find a power plant with a couple coal mines nearby and just go hard, dumping as much of the coal on the power plant as possible to encourage more production from the mines?
02:00:27  <Supercheese> would be a good idea, but don't choose coal mines that are too close
02:00:35  <Supercheese> transporting coal over longer distances is more profitable
02:00:44  <Supercheese> and if you're purely interested in abusing game mechanics for profit...
02:01:10  <TartarusMkII> =o
02:01:17  <Supercheese> then try and build a station piece on the far side of the coal mine, then ctrl+build to join the station you really will use on the closer side
02:01:30  <Supercheese> the distance that counts for profit is from one station sign to the other sign
02:01:49  <Supercheese> so if you "cheat" and make the signs far away while keeping the actual rails much closer, you gain more profit
02:04:26  <Supercheese> For example:
02:04:40  <TartarusMkII> oh I see lol wow
02:04:44  <Supercheese> Note how the actual signs are farther away that the train route
02:04:55  <Supercheese> this can be abused up to the maximum station spread allowed
02:05:14  <TartarusMkII> that's hilarious
02:05:32  <TartarusMkII>
02:05:33  <Supercheese> also: trains running diagonally, like the primary track shown, make more money than horizontally
02:05:35  <TartarusMkII> also here, why do you have so many signals?
02:05:40  <Supercheese> this one I'm not quite as sure why
02:06:13  <Supercheese> Well, I eventually boosted the output of that bauxite mine that I need eleven trains to keep up with the production
02:06:27  <Supercheese> so I needed enough signals so that the eleven trains could keep running
02:06:50  <Supercheese> I planned for this early on so I wouldn't have to change too much to increase capacity
02:06:58  <Supercheese> just clone some more trains
02:08:02  <TartarusMkII> are those rails that narrow down into just one rail line each on the west and east side like, one way or something?
02:08:19  <Supercheese> yes, the red & white bar on the signals means one-way signals
02:08:34  <Supercheese> so the trains loop around as shown, so they do not have to reverse and block the path of other trains
02:08:55  <Supercheese> the concept is known as Roll On, Roll Off, abbreviated as Ro-Ro
02:09:03  <Supercheese>
02:09:26  <Supercheese> the wiki contains a wealth of information; I need to leave, be back in a bit
02:09:56  <TartarusMkII> ty very much mate
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03:15:24  <TartarusMkII> SO I've got a question: I have a bunch of trains serving a train station who's sole resource is coal from a coal mine. The coal mine is making more coal from all the stimulus, butthe station itself is not taking up this coal fast enough. Why is that?
03:17:18  <Supercheese> the station only takes cargo from the mine in relation to its Station Rating
03:17:31  <Supercheese>
03:17:48  <Supercheese> so if Coal is rated 70% at that station, it will take 70% of the coal from the mine
03:18:02  <Supercheese> it is essentially impossible to get a 100% rating
03:18:17  <Supercheese> a perplexing design choice but that's the way it was in TTD
03:18:54  <TartarusMkII> I See, thanks thanks
03:19:28  <TartarusMkII> Sorry to make you post that again, now I understand the connection.
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04:14:59  <Flygon> Supercheese: Well
04:15:05  <Flygon> You CAN get a 100% approval rating
04:15:18  <Supercheese> jumping through hoops within hoops
04:15:24  <Supercheese> it's highly nontrivial
04:15:27  <Flygon> You just need to set up a bot to constantly advertise the hell out of your company atthe nearby city
04:16:00  <Supercheese> "just"
04:16:31  <Flygon> ""just""
04:17:32  <Supercheese> ʇsnÉŸ
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05:35:58  <supermop> pub done
05:36:00  <supermop>
05:36:15  <supermop> remaining pub details will wait until the next pub i do
05:36:39  <Flygon> Oh man
05:36:41  <Flygon> supermop
05:36:44  <Flygon> Looking at that pub
05:36:44  <Flygon> We
05:36:45  <Flygon> Totally
05:36:55  <Flygon> Need a "Mad Max Town and Transport set"
05:37:04  <Supercheese> Lookin niiiiice
05:38:01  <supermop> ha
05:38:34  <supermop> i dont know why the yucca bush in the garden renders for the detail perspective, but not in the dimetric
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05:47:15  <chillcore> good morning interwebz o/
05:49:24  <supermop> yo chill
05:50:22  <chillcore> hello supermop
05:50:52  <chillcore> and how are you this morning?
05:52:20  <supermop> it's a rainy afternoon for me
05:54:14  <chillcore> I hate rain ... and it really is morning 06.53 to be exact
05:54:49  <chillcore> the whole of europe has gone bananas and changed their clocks to a fictive hour ...
05:55:05  <chillcore>
05:55:07  <chillcore> :P
05:55:35  <supermop> we justed changed the other way down here!
05:55:40  <supermop> just
05:56:17  <chillcore> hehe ... I have changed al my auto clocks back to winter time ...
05:56:51  <chillcore> but I am thingking to change it to 7:25 now and using  +-30mins all year round instead
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06:02:00  <chillcore> I should really get cracking on changing MHL to do the right thing ... and not chase people away from wanting to play with moreheghtlevels
06:02:29  <chillcore> just ... finding motivation
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06:12:31  <chillcore> I had a better look at trunk yesterday ... this whole max_height thing is worse then I thought it was
06:13:01  <chillcore> I can rewrite it ... but if I can't even get Devs to commit tgen light ...
06:14:04  <chillcore> as in all of it as is ...
06:16:17  <supermop> what does the max ht do?
06:17:53  <chillcore> it should limit certain things ...
06:18:00  <chillcore> eg snowline
06:18:17  <chillcore> so NewGRF have something to base themselves on ...
06:18:58  <chillcore> the sad thing is that anything even remotely smelling like maxheight is attached to that same value
06:19:45  <chillcore> eg generating terrain from a a heightmap will set that value
06:20:03  <chillcore> but generating a normal game will set that value too
06:20:15  <chillcore> why is beyond me and completely not needed
06:20:49  <chillcore> also snowline should not use it ... it should be set at game start and use the top tile at that moment to never change ingame
06:21:05  <chillcore> same for tropical ... top tile and never change
06:21:17  <chillcore> and that  is just the start of it
06:22:08  <chillcore> exporting heightmaps ... instead of preserving what the terrain actually is ... lets use that value again and use whatever comes out the other end
06:22:30  <chillcore> so scenario editor can not get the map they used to have
06:23:07  <chillcore> the most obvious thing ... maxheight at 255 and get maps that are nowhere near that
06:23:15  <chillcore> normal mapgen that is
06:23:34  <chillcore> all heightmaps on bananas ar fucked
06:23:40  <chillcore> pardon me my french
06:23:58  <chillcore> I can give you an example if you want
06:24:22  <supermop> cant you just manually set snowline january and july?
06:24:42  <chillcore> newgGRF use a percentage of that value
06:24:46  <chillcore> lol
06:24:53  <supermop> why does snow car what the max is, it should just snow on every tile above set line
06:25:10  <chillcore> exactly
06:26:31  <Supercheese> Hmm, now I want to make Vintage Helidepots and Helistations...
06:26:44  <Supercheese> Airship Stations
06:26:58  <chillcore> sounds cool
06:27:15  <Supercheese> should be able to re-use the tiles like I did for Vintage Commuter
06:28:38  <chillcore> nice ... just make sure you re-use  stuffs you're allowed to re-use
06:29:25  <chillcore> you don't want some takedown notice chasing you
06:30:20  <chillcore> but yeah maxheight ... all of the above is just the start of it
06:30:27  <chillcore> I'll figure it out
06:30:41  <chillcore> I need commit access :P
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06:32:03  <Supercheese> yeah, I have no idea if the MariCo license is compatible with the OGFX+ one, so I probably won't be submitting the seaplane ports
06:32:18  <Supercheese> but the rest only use the existing sprites
06:32:22  <Supercheese> just rearranged
06:34:26  <chillcore> hmm I'm not familiar with the MariCo license
06:34:37  <Supercheese> I linked it along the screens I posted
06:35:05  <Supercheese>
06:35:15  <chillcore> just anything that comes from simuscape you want to steer clear of ... with a wide curve
06:36:36  <Supercheese> yeah
06:36:41  <V453000> MariCo is from mb isnt it?
06:36:57  <V453000> then either custom or no license I would assume :P
06:37:05  <V453000> which is very not ogfx+
06:37:26  <chillcore> ye ... let me check his license ... not all simuscape members are assholes
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06:41:04  <chillcore> waiting for newgrfs to be scanned ... all 3421 of them ...
06:41:15  <chillcore> waiting ...
06:41:18  <chillcore> lol
06:41:29  <chillcore> I need to move this thing ...
06:42:33  <V453000> yeah I already did
06:43:08  <V453000> I dont really use the old versions anymore anyway, and non-bananas stuff is just out of the question for multiplayer or sharing savegame with anybody
06:43:27  <chillcore> it does not show here in the gui ... and these versins do not work so ...
06:43:50  <Supercheese> It was .html alongside the downloaded archive
06:43:55  <Supercheese> so OTTD likely will not read it
06:43:58  <chillcore> ok
06:44:05  <V453000> xd
06:45:00  <V453000> looks borken
06:45:55  <chillcore> I dunno ... no https means "site is not gone" for as far as I am concerned
06:46:02  <chillcore> -not
06:46:31  <V453000> Copyright Notice  MariCo Set - © 2010 - 2014 Michael Blunck - All Rights Reserved.  Permission to use, copy and distribute this software (consisting of the graphics and its implementation code) and its documentation for non-commercial purposes, without fee and without a signed licensing agreement, is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice, this paragraph and the following four paragraphs appear in all copies and distributi
06:46:36  <V453000> asdf
06:46:58  <V453000>
06:47:02  <Supercheese> Suitable ambiguous
06:47:05  <Supercheese> complete with ALLCAPS
06:47:11  <Supercheese> Suitably*
06:47:48  <chillcore> reads simuscape enough to me
06:48:16  <V453000> just a normal non-free license
06:48:22  <V453000> Pikka has a similar one doesnt he
06:48:41  <chillcore> anyhoo modification is not allowed ... smple as that
06:48:50  <Supercheese> Pikka has a minimalist license
06:48:53  <Supercheese> like a single line
06:49:10  <V453000> ok :)
06:49:21  <Supercheese> and it can be read in OTTD
06:49:39  <chillcore> ye me too "GPL v2 NOT later"
06:49:52  <chillcore> v3 is evil shit
06:49:58  <Supercheese> orly
06:50:14  <chillcore> means yo can take my code but you do not have ot give back the source
06:50:28  <V453000> :0
06:50:35  <V453000> I thought that was the whole point of gpl XD
06:50:41  <V453000> but yeah I heard v3 is bs
06:50:44  <chillcore> lobby ... nuff said
06:50:59  <Supercheese> I floundered around a bit and in the end chose a Creative Commons license, since I did not have permission to distribute sources with most of my grfs
06:51:23  <chillcore> most peeps do not read and use v2 or later
06:51:49  <chillcore> then some shit company comes along and sais "what source" I used v3
06:51:51  <chillcore> lol
06:51:55  <V453000> I also use CC BY SA
06:52:29  <Supercheese> Yeah, I saw several of my favorite grfs did, so figured it couldn't be that bad eh
06:52:29  <chillcore> I have a custom license for my minecrafft mod
06:52:43  <chillcore> "don't be an asshole"
06:52:48  <chillcore> :P
06:52:55  <V453000> not just because of permissions but also because I do not wish for some idiot to come and say "give me code immediately" ... which I think is questionnable, but many discussions in this channel felt to me like "we dont know" :D
06:53:02  <V453000> good license
06:53:21  <V453000> hard to define asshole though :P
06:53:43  <chillcore> I explained a little bit
06:54:15  <Supercheese> Noli asinus esse
06:54:35  <chillcore> "please re-use code or learn from it , please do not re-use textures and make your own model, so much more fun"
06:54:53  <chillcore> "you may make a texture ... if good enough I will include it"
06:54:58  <chillcore> something like that
06:55:37  <chillcore> also no commercial use ... so not behind addfly links
06:55:44  <chillcore> or shitty modpack
06:56:04  <chillcore> ^^^ tat has tracking built in
06:56:18  <chillcore> anyhoo
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06:58:40  <chillcore> moar coffee before I plunge myself into this madness again
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07:00:23  <supermop> idk what to license houses...
07:00:49  <supermop> i want to keep a gulf between these stations, and houses
07:01:32  <supermop> i want stations to be possible to go into a future ogfx+
07:02:01  <supermop> houses... i'm not sure what i want to happen there but i want to use as a portfolio piece
07:02:07  <chillcore> it is your sprites ... you can dual license
07:02:39  <supermop> to show architecture firms that i was not totally wasting my time in aus
07:03:04  <supermop> by doing a study of Melbourne vernacular architecture
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07:04:04  <supermop> and using those models or sprites in a procedural house generator or something that explores the variations of building styles here
07:04:16  <supermop> of course gpl should be ok for that
07:04:27  <supermop> but there are a few odd bits
07:04:41  <chillcore> as in?
07:04:51  <supermop> like bracket i designed for pub sign, etched glass over pub door,
07:05:40  <supermop> use amotife that i want to protect as logo or branding for my other design work; the furniture and products i design
07:05:59  <supermop> logo is not trademarked yet as i am still experimenting with it
07:06:21  <chillcore> hmm ok ...
07:06:22  <supermop> but i think if i distribute is freely in there, then i cannot claim ownership of it later?
07:06:33  <chillcore> you retain ownership
07:06:47  <V453000> if you want anything to: 1. go with opengfx or any other GPLv2 thing, or 2. work on something with multiple people, then GPLv2 is probably the way to go
07:06:59  <V453000> assuming you want to share full source
07:07:08  <supermop> like i wanted to put wooden stool out back of pub, that i am sitting on right now
07:07:13  <supermop> my own design and i built it
07:07:33  <chillcore> go with something more closed for now ...
07:07:52  <supermop> but if i have rendering of stool in a free set, can i still protect stool design when it comes to making the stool?
07:08:23  <V453000> what do you mean protect?
07:08:30  <V453000> nobody else can create the same or similar thing?
07:08:50  <chillcore> hmm ...
07:08:50  <V453000> OR re-sharing your source?
07:08:55  <supermop> if i sell it then see same stool on alibaba for sale
07:09:17  <V453000> if people re-share your source, re-use it or anything, they must say you made it, that is the point of the license
07:09:23  <V453000> ha, that I am unsure about
07:09:32  <supermop> actually i think it would be cool to release stool as free furniture (i give you designs for free, you build it yourself) as i designed it to be easy to make with just hand tools
07:09:41  <V453000> but I mean, it would make sense
07:10:20  <V453000> A) you provide it for free with license requirements of GPLv2, B) for people who need to use it in commercial use / not GPLv2, they can buy it with custom license - in that shop
07:10:49  <chillcore> GPL v2 and others do not exlde comercial use
07:10:56  <chillcore> exlude*
07:11:05  <V453000> okay, still
07:11:07  <chillcore> I am allowed to sell openttd
07:11:13  <V453000> really?
07:11:22  <chillcore> or my patchpack for that matter
07:11:23  <chillcore> yes
07:11:23  <V453000> that sounds incorrect
07:11:27  <V453000> but ok :D
07:11:30  <chillcore> nope that is the way it is
07:11:34  <chillcore> however ...
07:11:46  <chillcore> say you buy a copy of me
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07:11:59  <chillcore> I can not stop you from giving it away for free
07:12:00  <V453000> that doesnt make sense to me, if you re-use GPLv2 things, you must use GPLv2 license, no? it is self-reproducive
07:12:05  <supermop> or what if i want to sell furniture models on unreal or other marketplace for people to use in their levels...
07:12:39  <chillcore> it is your work supermop
07:12:40  <V453000> I would say it is still your thing and you are the author supermop so you can do whatever you want with it, under any circumstances
07:12:47  <chillcore> I can sell your chair
07:12:54  <chillcore> but I can not claim it as mine
07:13:00  <supermop> hmm
07:13:11  <chillcore> if I make the legs shorter I must state so
07:13:27  <chillcore> so if it ends up wobbly your rep is not damaged
07:13:48  <supermop> well i think it will be months before houses can ship as set as i have no coder and only one 'finished' model, and 8 black white cottages
07:13:56  <supermop> *blank
07:14:01  <supermop> hmm
07:14:15  <chillcore> yeah don't add a license just yet ;)
07:14:24  <chillcore> no license is no permissions
07:14:27  <chillcore> ;)
07:14:49  <supermop> for both houses and stations i need to convince someone to help code, so i will be influenced by what they want to license as
07:15:01  <chillcore> if here is really stuffs you'd like to protect ... don't add it but replace it with something you do want to share
07:15:02  <supermop> i can remove any sensitive chairs before then
07:15:08  <chillcore> eg. your logo
07:15:19  <chillcore> ye exactly
07:15:27  <supermop> need to make more beer murals
07:15:40  <chillcore> moar beer
07:15:45  <supermop> i wanted kirby bitter to be kirby draught
07:15:59  <supermop> changed at last moment because idk
07:16:11  <supermop> so i think i will do ginzu draft
07:16:28  <supermop> as a pilsner with A4 as mascot
07:17:05  <supermop> and 8P as the shitty queensland beer (in place of 4X)
07:17:18  <supermop> sorry to pikka if he likes 4X
07:17:48  <supermop> but may have Ginzu be a pub instead of a beer
07:18:45  <chillcore> hehe
07:18:57  <chillcore> let there be rythm
07:19:02  <chillcore>
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07:41:06  <Supercheese> Sidetracked again by another feature I want to add... sigh
07:41:27  <chillcore> haha kjoin the club
07:41:46  <V453000> XD
07:41:54  <V453000> good stuff supermop
07:42:11  <Supercheese> "Let's play a game of OTTD! But wait what grfs should I use..." Week later finally sorted what grfs I want, after modifying a couple of them to suit my needs
07:42:16  <chillcore> I was going to look at MHL and that maxh_height all over the code ... wondering where all these settings went that used to be there
07:42:33  <chillcore> now looking at vanilla config file :P
07:42:35  <Supercheese> "Ok, let's actually play this!" Play for few hours, "Hmm, this feature needs to happen. Like, now."
07:42:41  <Supercheese> Weeks later... here I am
07:42:44  <chillcore> ye same here
07:43:01  <Supercheese> Glad to know I'm not the only one :)
07:43:02  <V453000> I have played 1 single game with YETI so far
07:43:12  <V453000> 0.0.1 was released a year ago
07:43:18  <V453000> ._.
07:43:31  <Supercheese> Yes, it does seem like there's a club I have joined ;)
07:43:32  <chillcore> let's just say I have yet to finish my first game with my own patchpack xD
07:43:56  <Supercheese> ah well, I got my hours upon days upon hours of TTD when I was a lad
07:44:07  <V453000> XD yes
07:44:11  <Supercheese> easily it's my all-time most played game, including OTTD of course
07:44:16  <Flygon> Guys
07:44:17  <Flygon> Guuuys
07:44:19  <chillcore> ye coding playing it is the same fun for me
07:44:25  <Flygon> You're making me want to play that Iceland scenario
07:44:27  <Flygon> Which's annoying
07:44:32  <chillcore> hehe
07:44:34  <Flygon> Because I gotta colourize these animations
07:44:41  <Flygon> Play through MH4U...
07:44:44  <Flygon> Xenoblade 3DS...
07:44:54  <Flygon> Finish Bravely Default...
07:44:58  <Flygon> Gamers Delema.
07:46:33  <Flygon> And yet
07:46:49  <Flygon> I'm also waiting on the next revision of 2CC trainset
07:46:54  <Flygon> <_>
07:46:55  <Supercheese> Jeez yeah so many games in my backlog
07:47:05  <Supercheese> I haven't even unlocked every fighter in Smash Bros. yet
07:47:10  <Supercheese> my younger self would be ashamed of me
07:47:17  <Flygon> Ditto
07:47:21  <Flygon> Fuck, growing old sucks
07:47:24  <Supercheese> -___-
07:47:26  <Flygon> You lose motivation to clock everything
07:47:26  <Flygon> D:
07:48:10  <chillcore> haha
07:48:28  <chillcore> I hope openttd does not get dumbed down like that
07:48:41  <Flygon> Oh god
07:48:45  <Flygon> Every time you open up the game
07:48:58  <Flygon> "Hey buddie! Let's learn how to build a Bus!"
07:49:09  <Flygon> And like
07:49:12  <Supercheese> Achievement Unlocked: First Train Station Built!
07:49:15  <Flygon> It takes 7 hours
07:49:29  <V453000> at the same time, OpenTTD is not very newbie friendly due to 0 tutorial
07:49:43  <Flygon> Supercheese: True achievement is "First train station built larger than 8 International Airports"
07:49:44  <V453000> and youtube tutorial is just too outside imo
07:49:51  <chillcore> "we removed all options cause the dumdums can not handle having options"
07:49:55  <Supercheese> there is that Tut script
07:49:57  <Flygon> B-but
07:49:59  <Supercheese> but it's not at all obvious
07:50:01  <Flygon> I like options
07:50:03  <Flygon> I'm not dumb
07:50:09  <chillcore> dito
07:50:09  <Flygon> My SPECIAL ATTACK is just low
07:50:10  <Flygon> D:
07:50:12  <Supercheese> you have to know what you're looking for to find it
07:50:14  <V453000> how many players will get the idea to get a tut script after installing the game
07:50:18  <Supercheese> which sort of defeats the purpose
07:50:22  <V453000> yes
07:50:27  <Flygon> It's so awesome, so useful
07:50:36  <Flygon> It makes eating Ribs so much easier
07:50:40  <Flygon> ...
07:50:46  <Flygon> I wanna eat Marinated Ribs now.
07:50:47  <Supercheese> NMLLLLLL... parse fasterrrr....
07:51:09  <Flygon> V453000: I didn't
07:51:12  <Flygon> Y'know how I learned?
07:51:14  <Flygon> I versed the AI
07:51:21  <Flygon> And observed what the AI was doing
07:51:26  <Flygon> Then I built upon that
07:51:27  <Flygon> ...
07:51:28  <Flygon> ...
07:51:29  <Supercheese> There we go, Vintage Airship Stations
07:51:34  <V453000> yes, we all didnt because we played TT, TTD and whatnot
07:51:38  <Supercheese> Flygon: LOL
07:51:45  <Flygon> Then came screaming to #openttd "WHY WON'T MY TRAIN WORK?"
07:51:50  <Flygon> Then I get told I'm an idiot
07:51:56  <Flygon> Because I made this REALLY obvious mistake
07:52:01  <Flygon> And I'm ashamed of it
07:52:02  <chillcore> hmm ...
07:52:25  <chillcore> there are no stupid questions ... only idiot answers
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07:52:29  <V453000> I think it would be nice to have -something- as a tutorial
07:52:30  <V453000> for example
07:52:37  <V453000> how many people have any idea how signals work
07:52:44  <V453000> 1way, 2way, block, path, ...
07:52:53  <V453000> most people dont even know which way the signal is looking etc
07:52:57  <chillcore> there is avery nice tutorial savegame for that
07:53:05  <chillcore> a very nice one indeed
07:53:18  <V453000> sure, there is hundreds of nice savegames and videos
07:53:37  <V453000> but if it isnt inside of the game and when you launch the game you dont see a big "TUTORIAL" button, it isnt quite useful
07:53:45  <V453000> imo anyway
07:53:54  <chillcore> true that
07:54:00  <V453000> I just played factorio recently and at least some guide to show you how to do stuff, is helpful.
07:54:14  <V453000> especially since there is a ton of complexity to discover later
07:54:37  <chillcore> not yet played that one
07:54:39  <V453000> I think it is the n1 problem of OpenTTD - starting complexity
07:54:58  <V453000> and unexplained, unintuitive things, which just cause myths among players, etc
07:55:20  <chillcore> ye but that is no reason to simplify it to the point older players have no fun no more
07:55:23  <V453000> there was a lot of similar clutter around openttdcoop ... about more complex things, but still. The solution was to simply write it on the wiki, write it in blogs, and let people know
07:55:35  <V453000> well, the tutorial is not mandatory
07:55:52  <V453000> making a tutorial does not harm old players at all
07:55:54  <supermop> man now i'm thinking to add string of lights going from pub to tree
07:56:08  <chillcore> I like them pro games V453000
07:56:20  <chillcore> the others too but yeah
07:56:33  <Flygon> Did the original game have a tutorial?
07:56:38  <Flygon> TTO and TTD
07:56:57  <chillcore> hmm ... good question
07:57:23  <chillcore> I played TTO on PSX for a few hours
07:57:37  <chillcore> can't remember really
07:57:47  <chillcore> t had a manual
07:57:50  <Flygon> The one with 3D?
07:57:55  <chillcore> ye that one
07:58:08  <Flygon> O_o
07:58:19  <Flygon> ...
07:58:23  <chillcore> but I did not keep it ... stupid me
07:58:33  <Flygon> My origin story for getting into OTTD was really stupid
07:58:39  <Flygon> I met a furry and he referred me to this game
07:58:41  <supermop> tto had one in the demo i think
07:58:44  <Flygon> Because he thougtht I like trains
07:58:44  <chillcore> in those days you could rent games and I was like yeah gonna buy this later
07:58:58  <chillcore> never saw a copy again :/
07:59:08  <supermop> yeah also booklet in the box
07:59:11  <Flygon> Is there rip on Internet?
07:59:14  <Supercheese> TTD definitely had an in-game tutorial
07:59:16  <Supercheese> I remember it well
07:59:30  <Supercheese> it was essentially hard-coded mouse actions IIRC
07:59:31  <chillcore> maybe but that is not the same thing Flygon
07:59:42  <Flygon> Same thing?
07:59:51  <Supercheese> so if something for some reason went wrong in the tut, it would just fail miserably and start spazzing out
07:59:53  <chillcore> still looking for a cdrom version of TTD too
08:00:07  <Supercheese> because the mouse actions would still be executed even when they failed to produce the proper results
08:00:27  <chillcore> Flygon: a digital copy is not something I can hold in my hands or put on my glory shelf
08:00:35  <Flygon> oooh, right, right
08:00:37  <Flygon> Gotcha :3
08:00:40  <chillcore> ;)
08:00:42  <Supercheese> jeez I might have the DOS TTD CD lying around in a box somewhere
08:00:53  <Supercheese> probably deep in storage though
08:00:57  <chillcore> how much do you wan for it?
08:01:03  <chillcore> name it ...
08:01:05  <Supercheese> ha, I'd have to find it first
08:01:09  <chillcore> hehe
08:01:14  <Supercheese> cannot in good faith make any sort of promise
08:01:26  <chillcore> look for it first ;)
08:01:45  <Supercheese> I think I will :)
08:01:53  <chillcore> and send me a PM later ... only if you want to really part from it
08:02:02  <chillcore> don't do things you may regret
08:02:17  <Supercheese> AAaaaagh, I swear that my Firefox is not rendering these colors properly
08:02:17  <chillcore> cause I ain't sending it back :P
08:02:25  <Supercheese> I upload screenshots and they look weeeird
08:02:40  <Supercheese> blues are purple
08:02:47  <chillcore>  palette
08:02:49  <Flygon> How many monitors do you have?
08:02:52  <Supercheese> just 1
08:03:01  <Supercheese> need to try in a different browser
08:03:10  <chillcore> ye maybe that too
08:03:52  <Supercheese> I... don't seem to have any other web browser. Hmm.
08:04:00  <chillcore> what format are you exporting them to?
08:04:04  <Supercheese> .png
08:04:11  <chillcore> hmm
08:04:34  <chillcore> your screenies look fine here though
08:04:42  <Supercheese> probably some funny thing on my local browser
08:04:53  <supermop> my pngs always look different on forum than in game
08:04:56  <Supercheese> maybe one of the dozen addons is screwing with it
08:05:07  <chillcore> that woud not surprise me one bit
08:06:02  <Flygon> (I have 4 different monitors in active use on my work area... each has different colour and brightness)
08:06:12  <chillcore> hehe
08:06:15  <Flygon> (but only one's actually calibrated anyway)
08:06:21  <Flygon> (the 21in CRT that's used as a TV)
08:06:24  <Supercheese> Yep, it's definitely just Firefox
08:06:29  <Flygon> (also, TV stations REALLY suck at colour calibration)
08:06:31  <Supercheese> I wonder why on earth it does that...
08:06:38  <Flygon> (all their whites are YELLOW)
08:06:43  <Flygon> (except for when they ARE white)
08:07:16  <chillcore> disable 1 plugin at a time, or disable all and re-enable one at a time Supercheese
08:08:21  <chillcore> I disabled all plugins except for OpenH246 codec
08:08:27  <chillcore> all the rest is not needed
08:08:41  <chillcore> I have them at ask to activate
08:08:46  <chillcore> they never ask
08:09:03  <Supercheese>
08:09:09  <Supercheese> Ah, it is not just me
08:09:54  <chillcore> yeah it seems like it
08:10:24  <Supercheese> their test images show the exact same blues-shifted-to-purples issue
08:10:28  <chillcore> what version do you have of firefox?
08:10:41  <Supercheese> apparently, not the latest
08:10:59  <Supercheese> time to update it seems
08:11:06  <chillcore> 36.0.1 here and I am good
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08:12:02  <supermop> fighting tempation to model the interior of this put
08:12:04  <supermop> pub
08:12:23  <chillcore> nice
08:12:31  <chillcore> don't fight ...
08:12:36  <Supercheese> bar fight
08:12:41  <chillcore> haha
08:13:38  <Supercheese>
08:13:51  <chillcore> Supercheese: this helps?
08:13:54  <Supercheese> Bring on the Hindenburg
08:13:56  <chillcore>  please try setting gfx.color_management.mode to 1 in about:config.  If you do that, then the PNG and the surrounding HTML/CSS elements should all be getting the same color management treatment.  With the default value, 2, the images get color managed but other elements don't.
08:14:09  <chillcore> got that from the link you posted earlier ...
08:14:21  <Supercheese> Aah nice
08:14:23  <Supercheese> let me try
08:14:36  <chillcore> it helped that other dude ...
08:14:45  <chillcore> comment 32
08:15:34  <chillcore> hmm pngs were still screwed ... reading on
08:16:07  <Supercheese> yeah no immediate improvement
08:16:58  <supermop> doing rendering from camera looking out window onto beer garden
08:17:07  <chillcore> seting it to  0? that shoudl be no colour correction
08:17:24  <supermop> those tables need some pitchers of beer on them
08:17:35  <supermop> maybe some fries
08:17:46  <chillcore> and dry sausages
08:17:49  <Supercheese> coasters
08:18:20  <supermop> house set morphs into elaborate VR pub simulation
08:19:51  <chillcore> \o/ OpenTTD
08:20:53  <Supercheese> so weird, the .gif is fine but the .pngs are bollocks in Firefox
08:21:12  <supermop> yeah
08:22:27  <supermop> chilly
08:22:36  <supermop> should model a pho shop
08:22:54  <supermop> a set of VN sets would be great
08:24:10  <Flygon> supermop: iirc, VR actually did run pubs
08:24:18  <Flygon> Not 100% sure on that tho
08:24:25  <Flygon> They definitely had a childcare division tho
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08:28:09  <supermop> going to melt my gpu with these beer glasses
08:28:24  <supermop> no yellow cylinders for me
08:28:53  <V453000> gg
08:28:58  <chillcore> hmm ... too much polygons?
08:29:06  <V453000> refraction with caustics :P
08:29:10  <V453000> enough to melt shit
08:29:26  <chillcore> a pub with no beer ... yay
08:29:51  <chillcore> put kegs on the tables :P
08:30:07  <V453000> idk if rhino has SSS?
08:30:15  <V453000> sub-surface scattering
08:32:44  <chillcore> hmm my settings in my patchpack seem not to stick no more ...
08:32:53  <chillcore> what is this voodoo ...
08:35:11  <Supercheese> .cfg issue? I sometimes open multiple instances of OTTD and then they change the .cfg on exit
08:35:19  <Supercheese> so whichever I close last saves the changes
08:35:53  <chillcore> maybe that is what happened yes, while testing and comparing yesterday
08:35:59  <supermop> hmm not sure if flamingo does but it can do some pretty intense optics
08:36:21  <supermop> like you could model a telescope and render a view looking through it
08:36:56  <supermop> one of the tutorials goes into 'index of refraction of single malt whiskey'
08:37:31  <V453000> I think about every 3D thing has IOR
08:37:40  <Supercheese> Damn, I wish I was on that research project
08:37:50  <V453000> cool idea about trying it with a telescope though
08:38:04  <Supercheese> "Well, we got the optical index, now we just have to drink this or it'll go to waste"
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08:39:55  <supermop> my beer looks like pee
08:40:11  <V453000> add serioze foam
08:42:44  * chillcore does MHL fixing on top of tgen light patch
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08:43:08  <chillcore> this terrain pokes my eyes too much
08:43:28  <supermop> gah why did i put the beer on a slatted table with a polished aluminum base with light mottled by tree leaves
08:43:38  <supermop> computer going to melt
08:43:38  <chillcore> hehe
08:44:07  <chillcore> ara you leaving a one unit gap between surfaces?
08:44:13  <chillcore> are*
08:44:40  <chillcore> if the beer touches the table the table top gets fragmented
08:45:03  <chillcore> giving you way more polygons than needed
08:45:16  <chillcore> same for all the other surfaces
08:45:25  <chillcore> just saying
08:46:28  <chillcore> noone is going to look there for a tiny gapsie
08:47:02  <supermop> rhino doesnt use polygons
08:47:19  <chillcore> o ... k
08:47:49  <supermop> hmm i think im supposed to give the surface that is the boundry between beer and glass an ior thats halfway between the two
08:48:04  <supermop> tutorial did not tell be ior of beer though!
08:48:14  <V453000> rhino is all nurbs-ish?
08:51:02  <supermop> yeah
08:51:10  <V453000> hm.
08:51:12  <supermop> you can creat polygon meshes though
08:51:17  <V453000> right
08:51:23  <supermop> for exporting of stereo lithography
08:51:25  <V453000> how does that work?
08:51:29  <supermop> *or
08:51:49  <supermop> the mesh is a separate object from the surface or polysurface
08:54:15  <supermop> man there is really no reason to have rendered a close-up shot of beer glasses with a whole pub in scene out of frame...
08:55:24  <V453000> fun is allowed? :P
08:55:46  <V453000> I also rendered closeups and perspective-enabled shots when I was making yeti
08:56:10  <supermop> next stop in destroying my computer: create a logo for kirby paul draught and etch it onto the glasses with a bump map
09:02:41  <Supercheese> Here lies: Desktop ID#489461 20XX-2015. It Rendered unto Caesar what was Caesar's, and now it is Rendering unto God what is God's. R.I.P.
09:03:01  <Supercheese> that is probably only funny to me because it is 2 AM
09:03:21  <Supercheese> render puns... yeah not so much
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09:04:35  <andythenorth> o/
09:04:41  <Supercheese> Salve amice
09:05:02  <chillcore> Supercheese: reminds me of that p4 while compiling and debugging too many versions at once ... RIP
09:05:11  <chillcore> o/ andy
09:08:12  <supermop> where 20xx = 2010
09:08:25  <supermop> and desktop= 13" laptop
09:08:45  <supermop> im surprised this guy hasn't burst into flames already
09:09:10  <Supercheese> Render inferno
09:09:16  <chillcore> they used to build things sturdy ... used
09:10:11  <supermop> hmm i reused the same wood bumpmap for the teak table as i did for the railroad ties - looks a little grainy up close
09:10:24  <chillcore> games used to be quite bugfree too on release ... now they have "coming soon" allover
09:10:39  <supermop> added more foam, still looks like pee
09:10:49  <chillcore> yay pee-nuts
09:10:56  <chillcore> gotta have those too
09:11:01  <chillcore> :P
09:11:22  <supermop> cancel the render! have to model bowl of individual nuts!
09:11:33  <chillcore> hihi
09:12:00  <supermop> noting simple like peanuts though - shelled walnuts
09:12:08  <supermop> pecans
09:12:35  <Supercheese> Oh hmm OGFX+ does climate-dependent previews
09:12:43  <Supercheese> guess I'll have to do those too
09:12:54  <Supercheese> a job for tomorrow; good night all
09:13:08  <chillcore> good night
09:13:11  <supermop> night
09:13:16  <supermop> good work Supercheese
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09:14:01  <andythenorth> @seen danmack
09:14:01  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 18 hours, 39 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
09:15:46  <supermop> haha i was wondering on the first pass why the chunky glass on the bottom looked grainy - turns out its refracting the bumpy bricks behind it
09:16:21  <supermop> these are really the wrong shape glass for this beer though
09:16:30  <chillcore> yeah that will kill your pc for sure
09:17:24  <chillcore> how many times is light reflected?
09:17:34  <chillcore> that is a killer too
09:17:39  <supermop> well tulip glasses for ale will melt it faster
09:17:41  <supermop> hmm
09:17:43  <supermop> lots?
09:17:51  <chillcore> too lots?
09:17:54  <chillcore> try 4
09:18:01  <andythenorth> if andythenorth was rendereing
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09:18:12  <supermop> he would render beer glasses?
09:18:18  <chillcore> :P
09:18:21  * andythenorth would turn off transparency, refraction, radiosity etc
09:18:22  <supermop> i have no idea why i am even doing these
09:18:25  <chillcore> o/ Kamnet
09:18:42  <kamnet> Morning
09:18:54  <supermop> they are certainly not going into game sprites
09:18:57  <chillcore> supermop: because you can ... the only valid reason
09:19:18  <kamnet> You're doing it because you're avoiding further work on MLSS :P
09:19:24  <chillcore> haha
09:19:35  <supermop> 5th anniversary in a couple months
09:19:51  <supermop> should really fix the problems in it before then
09:19:51  <kamnet> You should get that whipped into shape, then!
09:20:14  <kamnet> And then get it on nanna market
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09:21:08  <supermop> i may actually do plain yellow cylinders on tables for game sprites
09:21:13  <kamnet> Here's what I wasted all day working on:
09:21:34  <supermop> or beer bottles that are neither hollow nor contain beer
09:22:20  <supermop> just a brown cylinder with cone on top
09:22:58  <andythenorth> Japan lacks an industry set
09:23:07  <kamnet> MLSS 32bpp sprites? :D
09:23:25  <supermop> firs japan?
09:23:29  <kamnet> There was some discussion of oen years ago Andy
09:23:44  <supermop> what would be japan specific and also fun to play?
09:23:50  <supermop> i cant think of much
09:23:58  <supermop> not enough raw materials
09:24:22  <andythenorth> rice
09:24:23  <kamnet>
09:24:23  <supermop> fishing grounds and fish market
09:24:38  * andythenorth trades in stereotypes apparently
09:24:42  <supermop> tsukiji is closing soon....
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09:25:31  <supermop> would rice differ from grain gameplay wise?
09:25:59  <kamnet> soybean
09:26:14  <supermop> export kikkoman shoyu
09:26:40  <supermop> i mean there are still a lot of cars and industrial robots built there
09:26:47  <supermop> some heavy shipbuilding
09:27:00  <supermop> semiconductor fab
09:27:24  <supermop> trains built for export
09:28:05  <supermop> gah hurry up i want to see my beer foam already
09:28:14  <kamnet> Agriculture: rice, soybean, root vegetables, livestock, forestry.
09:28:25  <kamnet> and fishery
09:28:55  <andythenorth> with FIRS economies, it doesn’t matter so much if rice is different from grain
09:28:57  <supermop> i feel like slightly different sprites and firs has it covered
09:29:07  <andythenorth> localisation with no gameplay effect is valid for economies
09:29:34  <supermop> japan could use a non foamer train set
09:29:43  <supermop> i like the jr set a lot
09:29:44  <kamnet> There's some slight coal and iron mining operations, and soe offshore oil and natural gas rigs.
09:29:49  <supermop> but its a bit academic
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09:30:11  <supermop> IH: chrysanthemum roster would be nice
09:31:11  <supermop> vietnam better for industry set
09:33:08  <kamnet> You could adapt Port and Bulk Terminal to provide much of what Japan needs for imports. Food, energy, raw materials. Chief exports are cars, electronics, and most of the economy is centered around finance.
09:35:39  <supermop> yeah finance less fun
09:36:09  <supermop> but jr set is so passenger focused, as is the jr network, i don't mind
09:36:56  <supermop> i honestly enjoy spening a whole game timetabling EMUs to cram into a station seamlessly
09:37:49  <supermop> rendering complete!
09:37:54  <supermop> needs more bubbles
09:39:45  <supermop>
09:40:13  <kamnet> Now I'm thirsty
09:40:32  <andythenorth> China Sea economy set
09:40:38  <andythenorth> “For all the tea in China"
09:40:43  <andythenorth> “Fragrant Harbour"
09:40:58  * andythenorth worries about straying into accidentally controversial terms
09:41:08  <andythenorth> “Sea of Poppies” :P
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09:44:18  <supermop> well yeah
09:45:42  <chillcore> Mary Poppies? :P
09:46:04  <chillcore> ^^^ just making connections with yesterday ... nvm
09:46:11  <kamnet> "Milk of the Poppies".  Hey. Game of Thrones economy. :D
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09:48:00  <chillcore> hmm two of them ... must be the beer XD
09:48:02  * andythenorth ponders an economy where Great Britain ships opium from Indian to Hong Kong
09:48:07  <andythenorth> backed by gunboats
09:50:06  <supermop_> a lot of melbourne terraced cottages are similar tectonically to chinese and vietnamese 18th and 19th century shophouses
09:50:48  <supermop_> wondered about trying to crank out an indochina town set eventually
09:51:47  <supermop_> could do some of it by just reconstituting parts
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09:53:27  <supermop_> phnom penh and saigon buildings are a whole different animal
09:54:18  <andythenorth> 5 year old is asking for twisty bridges and twisty tunnels
09:56:04  <supermop_> sounds like the right idea
09:56:36  <kamnet> Wozers, 5 years old already? It really has been awhile since I've been here on a regular basis.
09:56:57  <kamnet> My oldest just turned 18.
09:57:35  * andythenorth leaves him alone with bridge_map.cpp
09:57:36  <andythenorth> 34yr6rri fxdsani\n; 7kfkzxcdksmssi3nu3213467o[]ujbggjk,,......qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
09:57:39  <andythenorth> probably won’t work
09:58:55  <andythenorth> he really wants diagonal :P
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09:59:53  <kamnet> Set him to work on drawing sprites!
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10:00:55  <chillcore> <andythenorth> 34yr6rri fxdsani\n; 7kfkzxcdksmssi3nu3213467o[]ujbggjk,,......qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq     <- so cute
10:01:37  <chillcore>    \o/
10:02:14  <andythenorth> doesn’t compile
10:02:23  * andythenorth doesn’t know much C++, but I think it’s wrong
10:02:28  <chillcore> hehe
10:07:58  <chillcore> yay phone ... I'll have a lot less free time available soon-ish, I hope
10:08:54  <kamnet> date?
10:09:10  <chillcore> I've got an appointment the 6th of may
10:09:33  <kamnet> appendectomy?
10:10:06  <chillcore> it is a new project they may start because I asked via via ... oxfam
10:10:33  <chillcore> ther will be some other peeps too ... for yet another project
10:10:38  <chillcore> yay
10:10:41  <chillcore> two jobs
10:11:01  <chillcore> and then I am looking for a third
10:11:03  <kamnet> cool
10:11:10  <kamnet> I need another job too
10:11:12  <chillcore> all PC related
10:11:31  <chillcore> and not to help the rich get richer ... In yer face bozos
10:11:33  <chillcore> :P
10:11:56  <chillcore> not that I have something against rich peeps
10:12:24  <chillcore> as long as they did not become it at the expense of ... I'm cool
10:12:35  <chillcore> anyhoo we'll see
10:12:44  <chillcore> at least I got peeps listening
10:13:20  <kamnet> good deal
10:13:32  <chillcore> indeed
10:14:47  <chillcore> now I just need a hobby that will make me rich :P
10:15:13  * andythenorth gets rich on newgrfs
10:15:29  <chillcore> that is a nice kind of rich
10:15:34  <chillcore> :bow:
10:15:35  <andythenorth> €1 per download
10:15:46  <andythenorth> I have €1.7m
10:15:59  <andythenorth> but rubidi*m charges a high fee for the store
10:16:04  <andythenorth> so I am still penniless
10:16:08  <chillcore> haha
10:16:28  <chillcore> I was thinking about donating some of my broadbband but the amount of it ...
10:16:31  <planetmaker> it's all operation costs ;)
10:16:49  <chillcore> I can spare 100GB a month at 6 up
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10:17:02  <chillcore> but at 500GB my speed goes down so ...
10:17:16  <planetmaker> our mirrors have a monthy rate around 2TB
10:17:26  <planetmaker> iirc. Not sure really
10:17:28  <chillcore> ye I saw that
10:18:02  <chillcore> any idea to what belgium amounts?
10:18:08  <planetmaker> well, the coop server could take some as well. But it's too near the existing mirrors :)
10:18:35  <planetmaker> <-- I only have that kind of stats, chillcore
10:18:52  <planetmaker> thus Belgium is 0.5% of our traffic ;)
10:19:01  <planetmaker> (plus those with .com from belgium)
10:19:05  <planetmaker> and .net .org etc
10:19:29  <chillcore> thanks for the link planetmaker
10:21:03  <planetmaker> but those stats don't include our online content traffic afaik
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10:22:05  <planetmaker> it's just web traffic of our main server
10:22:34  <chillcore> hmm ok because I was just trying to figure out how much 19994607 KB is actually
10:22:53  <chillcore> 1994607*
10:23:22  <chillcore> brain on the fritz :P
10:23:33  <chillcore> with that phonecall ...
10:24:27  <planetmaker> 20GB
10:24:44  <chillcore> that I can do no prob
10:25:05  <planetmaker> but we use no mirrors for our web traffic :) Only bananas is mirrored
10:25:09  <chillcore> I could set up my homeserver so it does not tax my pc
10:25:17  <chillcore> ah ok
10:25:43  <planetmaker> or basically all downloads. As our openttd binaries etc are also mirrored
10:25:56  <planetmaker> binaries are large compared to a bit of website traffic :)
10:25:59  <chillcore> someone suggested seeding them
10:26:10  <chillcore> which seems like a good-ish idea
10:26:28  <chillcore> even if just the stables
10:26:30  <planetmaker> maybe. Personally I've no clue how complex that is to arrange
10:26:44  <chillcore> seeding is easy
10:27:07  <chillcore> I start, you pull, we seed, they pull, we all seed
10:27:15  <chillcore> it grows exponentially
10:27:36  <chillcore> but for nightlies ... hmm
10:27:46  <chillcore> could work
10:28:28  <chillcore> just thinking out loud ...
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10:28:58  <chillcore> the thing is it has a bad ring to it
10:29:15  <chillcore> most peeps think it is exlusively for pirates
10:29:21  <chillcore> which is not the case at all
10:29:33  <chillcore> justthat there are pirates too
10:29:40  <chillcore> think megaupload
10:30:05  <chillcore> not all on there was pirated stuffs
10:30:14  <chillcore> but yeah ...
10:30:39  <chillcore> same as with youtube ... they should take it dwn ... all of it :P
10:30:49  <chillcore> someone posted a movie
10:30:51  <chillcore> sigh
10:31:05  <chillcore> anyhoo
10:31:46  * andythenorth wonders if the world is better or worse without YouTube
10:32:17  <chillcore> I like the tubes ...
10:32:28  <chillcore> beats TV by miles
10:32:48  <chillcore> you get to choose what nonsense you watch xD
10:34:43  <chillcore> I like this dude ... he makes sense
10:34:55  <chillcore>
10:37:08  <chillcore> other vids are available :P
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12:31:11  <supermop> yo
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12:59:51  <kamnet> Windows 10 will be distributed and updated via torrents. Many open source projects (off the top of my head, LibreOffice) also distribute via torrent.
13:04:15  *** Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:05:27  <peter1138> Is it a spambot?
13:05:45  <V453000> probably
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13:16:10  *** Samu [] has joined #openttd
13:16:12  <Samu> hi
13:18:54  <Samu> when creating a patch and selecting files, the .vcxproj files are always in the way. Is is possible to automatically exclude them from being added to the patch everytime I am to create one?
13:22:29  <planetmaker> yes
13:22:48  <planetmaker> however you should not need to change those
13:25:02  <planetmaker> (and a meaningful answer to your question depends on the VCS and tools you use - check their respective help)
13:26:54  <Samu> tortoise svn
13:27:52  <Samu> i use visual studio express 2013 for windows desktop
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13:37:43  <Gderckx> Hi Anyone, can you tell me how I can get 32Bpp graphics in open TTD V1.4.4, I tried the tutorials via Youtube but the http://jupix.... link is not working.
13:38:06  <V453000> download zbase or some other 32bpp newgrfs
13:38:49  <V453000> list here
13:39:19  <Gderckx> Thanks for the fast reply, I can see some 32Bpp sets in thge newgrf settings but cannot find the Zbase one
13:39:59  <V453000> zbase is not a newgrf, it is a base set
13:40:06  <V453000> you need to activate it through the Game Options
13:40:09  <V453000> or something like that
13:40:43  <Gderckx> OK, and where can I get the base set as the only base set available in the game options is OPENGFX
13:41:03  <V453000> from the download content
13:41:25  <V453000> put zbase in the filter there or search for category base set
13:41:37  <V453000> then you just download it and then you can choose it as a base set
13:43:03  <Gderckx> OK, perfect now donwloading!
13:43:43  <V453000> I would also suggest to download RAWR and place it as a static newGRF to improve zbase, but that is up to you :)
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13:43:52  <V453000>
13:44:29  <V453000> for vehicles, pineapple trains are great
13:44:31  <V453000> for industries, YETI
13:48:19  <Gderckx> Perfect, Zbase now working and loolking great, I will indeed also add RAWR
13:49:07  <chillcore> man these NewGRF names are killing me XD
13:49:20  <chillcore> RAWR NUTS
13:49:25  <chillcore> :P
13:49:35  <Gderckx> Are the tall skyscrapers also included in RAWR?
13:54:52  <V453000> no :)
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13:55:31  <V453000> chillcore: NUTS PURR CATS YETI RAWR DOOM :P
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13:56:14  <Gderckx> :D
13:58:32  <chillcore> Nuts yeti doom-cats purr. Rawr
13:58:34  <chillcore> indeed
14:00:03  <chillcore> crazy peeps ... must be train fanatics for sure ... what else?
14:00:04  <Gderckx> Cannot find DOOM and CATS but got the rest now
14:01:54  <Gderckx> Awesome!
14:05:06  <chillcore> this base is going to take me weeks to complete just the exterior
14:05:32  *** kamnet_ [] has joined #openttd
14:08:47  <kamnet_> Lo, my god even struck me from the chat room for even acknowledging their presence!
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14:10:16  <kamnet> nick kamnet
14:10:31  <chillcore> ah that is how you do it ...
14:10:35  <chillcore> o/
14:10:51  <kamnet> *grumble* Pickey keyboard
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14:11:25  <chillcore> hehe ye I have a sensitive mouse like that
14:11:38  <chillcore> always double clicking when it should not
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14:23:33  <chillcore> hmm  why does steam keep asking... ofcourse I am born in 1901 XD
14:25:20  <planetmaker> :D
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14:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe choose 1902 and they stop?
14:28:16  <chillcore> haha, they just ask before viewing inaproprate content ... as do many other places
14:28:40  <chillcore> maybe I should not clear caches all the time ...
14:28:44  <chillcore> haha
14:29:34  <chillcore> it is silly really ... what kid fills in his real date of birth ... it is the first thing they learn
14:30:33  <chillcore> but sometimes you get to see these really funny posts
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14:31:00  <chillcore> adults that missclick and now can no access some games no more
14:31:39  <chillcore> hmm come to think of it they just need to log in and out to fix it so cache has little to do with it
14:37:58  <chillcore> Note: The Steam Subscriber Agreement has been updated since you last accepted it. To view the previous version of the Steam Subscriber Agreement, click here.
14:38:13  <chillcore> lol and then make me accept it or lock my acount
14:38:29  <chillcore> no way I am clicking
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14:44:19  <kamnet> Just imagine how popular openttd would be if we had such subscriber agreements
14:49:07  <peter1138> Steam sucks but it does make it easy buy games...
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14:56:02  <soupy> So, is there a way to ignore alerts from certain vehicles?  "Dammit, I know the feeders aren't making any money!"
14:57:10  <chillcore> true peter ... they have made some changes in regards of european law already but it does not go far enough (yet) for me to restart buying games
14:57:38  <soupy> Also, two boats keep saying they are lost, even though they aren't.  I suspect it takes them just a second too long to find their destinations.
14:57:58  <chillcore> soupy: there is a range of options to supress messages in the setting gui
14:58:07  <soupy> I don't want to fully disable the notifications though.
14:58:30  <chillcore> you have options, just have a looksie ;)
14:58:37  <soupy> I like to know when vehicles are lost or not making profit so I can fix my inevitable bad track design.
14:58:48  <soupy> Hrmmm.....kk
15:00:38  <soupy> The only options I'm familiar with for this are the options to increase feeder profit allotment, disable no-profit notifications, and disable lost notifications.
15:03:15  <Samu> i feel my patch is ready
15:03:19  <Samu>
15:03:23  <Samu> submitted it there
15:03:32  <chillcore> just click one on the text and see below for an explanation ;)
15:03:57  <chillcore> if it is still not clear then maybe that string text needs improving?
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15:04:10  <chillcore> feel free to ask a bout a specific setting
15:04:36  <Alberth> any magic settings?
15:04:51  <Alberth> hi hi btw
15:05:02  <chillcore> notifications and the meaning of their string in the settings gui
15:05:10  <chillcore> hello Alberth o/
15:05:43  <Samu> hi
15:08:44  <Samu> ship is lost because the pathfinder doesn't know they can make 180º turns when going against wall
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15:15:02  <deep42thought> Hi, I can't login to the bug tracker, but the wiki and work fine (with the same name & password). Do you have any idea what I might be doing wrong?
15:15:08  <Alberth> what makes you think a ship can do that?
15:16:45  <Alberth> deep42thought: no idea, but maybe TrueBrain Rubidium or planetmaker knows?
15:19:03  <Samu> because they do
15:19:53  <Samu> when the ship find a wall, the only thing it can do is turn around
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15:20:34  <Samu> 180 degrees
15:22:03  <chillcore> and where does the lost come in?
15:22:44  <Samu> when it goes against the wall, it's lost, happens quite often during departing
15:22:47  <Alberth> pathfinder failure to find a solution
15:23:26  <Samu> if you have a dock at the end of a tight canal line
15:23:44  <Samu> the only way to depart is doing the 180 turn
15:24:28  <Alberth> seems sensible to get lost in such a case
15:25:32  <deep42thought> it *might* be, that I created a new account instead of merging my old one(s) into a new one
15:25:43  <deep42thought> is there a way to recover that?
15:27:04  <Alberth> no doubt there is, but you need someone that knows that part
15:27:04  <soupy> Sami:  That one ship is the only one that has the problem though.  The rest have almost identical orders, some of them going to fisheries close to it's destination.
15:27:25  <Alberth> deep42thought: you can wait here, or send an email to info@o.o
15:27:39  <Samu> there are some other cases where it says it's lost
15:27:54  <deep42thought> alberth: thanks, I'll try the mail-option :-)
15:27:58  <Samu> it does against a wall, but not head on
15:28:02  <soupy> chillcore: Still can't find it, buddy.  Other than disabling the notification completely, or upping the feeder allotment of profits (which it's already at 95%), I can't seem to find any other options.
15:29:16  <Samu> it's more like a "make a 45º degree turn, then go against the wall to make the 180º degree", when it's turns around, it's on track again
15:29:37  <Samu> don't know if i explained clear
15:30:18  <Samu> it's not a perpendicular head-on
15:34:36  <Samu> sometimes i get the idea that ships walk on invisible rails
15:34:53  <Alberth> they do
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15:36:15  <chillcore> samu: I just tried and the ship did not get lost ... mabe check your orders
15:36:42  <Samu> which one you tried?
15:36:56  <chillcore> maybe my canal is not long enough
15:37:13  <chillcore> just a dock at the end of a canal
15:37:15  <Samu> ah
15:37:20  <Samu> let me try myself
15:38:07  <chillcore> soupy: let me open the setting gui over here so we are talking abou the same thing ;)
15:38:27  <Samu> oh, sorry
15:38:45  <Samu> didn't happen head on
15:40:01  <chillcore> soupy: yeah in regards of negative profits it is on or off for all vehicles
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15:40:15  <Samu> let me find out the different ways it can happen, brb
15:40:16  <chillcore> as is for the other notifications
15:40:45  <chillcore> hmm but yeah feeders ...
15:41:20  <Samu> aha, I got a ship is lost, brb print screen
15:42:20  <chillcore> you'll have to indeed fiddle a bit with that setting t oget rid of (most) the notifications
15:42:36  <Samu>
15:42:48  <chillcore> in the end it does not make a difference to your income
15:43:23  <chillcore> just that the last vehicle will be making less or run at a loss
15:43:28  <Samu> makes a 45 turn, to go against wall, to make 180 degrees, to get back on track
15:44:13  <soupy> chillcore: Yeah, they do a wonderful job.  Got quite a burgeoning booze industry thanks to these 40 feeders picking up fruit.  Unfortuantely they don't know their worth.  :P
15:44:33  <chillcore> so called loss ... because the previous vehicles received more of the share
15:44:41  <Samu> CRAP, it made two 45 turns
15:44:56  <chillcore> yes they do ... it is just that the final payment is calculated over the whole rout
15:45:00  <chillcore> +e
15:45:15  <Samu> seems easy to trigger, but hard to describe
15:45:24  <chillcore> damn I looked in a light ... I'll not respond for a bit
15:45:50  <chillcore> moving spots everywhere moehahahaha
15:46:03  <chillcore> I do it each time silly me
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15:46:40  <Terkhen> hello
15:48:12  <Samu>
15:48:24  <Samu> ship is lost again
15:48:39  <Samu> another configuration
15:50:08  <Alberth> ships need room to move/rotate
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15:50:49  <Samu> it's not really lost though
15:50:57  <Samu> the popup is annoying
15:51:08  <chillcore> o/ Terkhen
15:51:23  <Alberth> it is lost, but finds its way again at a later time
15:51:36  <Samu> 1 second later
15:51:37  <Samu> :(
15:51:48  <Alberth> give it more room, and the popup will not pop up
15:52:09  <Samu> it also happens when it needs to service
15:52:40  <chillcore> Alberth: that or disabling the lost warning :P
15:54:32  <Alberth> I prefer fixing the situation :)
15:54:35  <Samu> when the ship has a sudden urge to go to depot because of service interval and is on a straight line canal, it makes a 45 turn against the wall again, to make a 180 degree
15:54:56  <chillcore> ye me too ... that is about the only notification I leave on
15:55:07  <chillcore> unless I want to play with subsidies
15:55:07  <Samu> let me show you
15:55:19  <Alberth> no need, I believe you
15:55:32  <Alberth> if you don't give space to the ship to turn, it behaves weird
15:55:37  <Alberth> Duh
15:55:59  <Samu> canals are expensive :(
15:56:09  <Alberth> chillcore: use busy bee :p
15:56:52  <deep42thought> Samu: why don't you place a buoy beside your shipyard and make explicit "service when needed"-orders after a "goto-buoy"-order?
15:57:08  <Samu> with 90 degrees turned off, that would mean I'd need a 3-tile wide canal to prevent the popup
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15:57:17  <Samu> with 90 degrees on, i need 2-tile wide canal
15:57:30  <Samu> or yah, that other suggestion
15:57:37  <Samu> service in the orders
15:57:53  <chillcore> I should play another decent game one of these days Alberth ...
15:58:36  <chillcore> so much has changed ...
15:58:50  <Alberth> indecent game can be fun too :p
15:58:50  <chillcore> and yet so little hehe ...
15:59:15  <chillcore> indecent? I like the sound of that XD
16:00:25  <Alberth> :)
16:01:26  <chillcore> samu: now you are talking crap again ... I ALWAYS play with 90 degree turns off
16:01:41  <chillcore> always ... and I never have probs
16:01:45  <chillcore> ships just turn
16:02:02  <Alberth> busy bee gives you connections to make, no need to think at all, just make tracks/roads/docks
16:02:07  <Samu> but if you want to prevent that popup
16:02:09  <chillcore> AIs sometimes can not handle it
16:03:31  <Alberth> it's surprisingly fun to play without having to think :)
16:03:39  <chillcore> Alberth is there a time limit to complet goals in busy bee?
16:03:52  <Alberth> yes, infinite
16:04:08  <Alberth> you can ignore goals, and you get a new one
16:04:16  <chillcore> perfect ... my kind of time limit
16:04:25  <chillcore> I start in 2050 too
16:04:40  <Alberth> if you do regular deliveries (once every x years) you can take as long as you like
16:04:53  <chillcore> because when I start in 1950 all my vehicles are gone in no time
16:04:56  <chillcore> nice
16:05:08  <Alberth> bb doesn't care about years, industries, vehicles
16:05:17  <chillcore> cool
16:06:05  <Alberth> what vehicle set do you use?
16:06:14  <chillcore> still the spots ... the flash like LSD ... yay
16:06:21  <chillcore> they*
16:06:38  <chillcore> old age I guess
16:08:13  <chillcore> then again ... what am I complaining about ... some peeps see nada. ;)
16:08:27  <Samu> interesting
16:08:35  <Alberth> yeah, must be severely bummer
16:08:46  * chillcore whistles and avoids age topic
16:08:48  <Samu> each canal has 6 invisible "rail" tracks
16:09:16  <Alberth> perhaps avoid the lights instead :)
16:09:45  <chillcore> good idea that
16:10:04  <chillcore> I have this shade but need to put it on still
16:10:18  <chillcore> it has been collecting dust for quite while now :P
16:10:31  <Alberth> maybe tonight is the night? :)
16:10:47  <chillcore> yeah no maybe
16:10:51  <chillcore> it should be yes
16:10:55  <Alberth> :D
16:11:32  <chillcore> but yeah going practically blind ... sux bigtime
16:13:18  <chillcore> especially if you know you will since you're a kid still and see it happening to your grandma, then your father, recognize things in your kids behaviour ...
16:13:44  <Alberth> :(
16:13:49  <chillcore> oh well not there yet and life goes on ;)
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16:14:09  <chillcore> that is the only way to deal with it
16:14:19  <Alberth> pretty much yeah
16:14:39  <chillcore> things have improved thouh over the years ...
16:14:52  <chillcore> they put new lenses in and stuffs
16:15:05  <chillcore> reading aids ... bigger screens etc
16:15:15  <chillcore> also aid at home and such
16:15:23  <chillcore> ont that I need any of that yet
16:15:26  <chillcore> not*
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16:15:42  <Alberth> pity, a 4x2m tv wouldn't be bad :)
16:15:57  <chillcore> anyhoo ... everybody's got something
16:16:12  <chillcore> ye that 84 inch tablet microsoft has for sale now
16:16:32  <chillcore> eh touscreen I mean
16:16:34  <Alberth> ieks big thing :)
16:16:44  <chillcore> ye
16:17:02  <chillcore> could be used as a tablet ...
16:17:04  <chillcore> lol
16:17:31  <chillcore> Imagine taking that thing on a train or bus
16:17:35  <Alberth> more like a table :)
16:17:50  <chillcore> HALLO?
16:17:57  <chillcore> big phone
16:18:03  <Alberth> :D
16:18:23  <Samu> i have an idea
16:18:33  <Alberth> make room for ships?
16:18:42  <Samu> allow ship reversing at docks?
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16:19:09  <Samu> there's train reversing at stations
16:19:52  <Alberth> yeah, 3 tile wide platform tracks sort of fail
16:19:56  <Samu> but this won't fix the sudden urge to service intervals :(
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16:24:49  <Samu> hmm, there might be a way, but it may require track manipulation
16:25:24  <Samu> the idea is avoid dead end tracks
16:25:50  <Samu> it is adjusted based on the surroundings
16:26:44  <Samu> let me try draw this
16:31:49  <chillcore> yay ... i just built the most complex canal station of all times and at both ends the ship bumps into the dock or wall ... no lost vehicle messages with or without 90 degree turns
16:32:01  <chillcore> woohoo
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16:36:50  <Samu>
16:36:55  <Samu> not sure how feasible this is
16:37:25  <Samu> the track layout builds itself based on the surroundings
16:37:33  <Samu> auto-adapts
16:40:53  <Alberth> much like the path finder ignores some parts of the layout
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16:44:18  <Samu> oh, my bottom part of the track isn't 100% correct, but you get the idea
16:47:29  <Alberth> won't solve your lost messages, I think
16:47:29  <Alberth> ships still cannot reverse
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16:49:24  * chillcore must resist that button :P
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16:51:24  <planetmaker> hehe, chillcore ;)
16:52:01  <chillcore> the minimise button is hidden on my top monitor now ... should help some
16:52:52  <chillcore> I heard you hit some magic button combination often too planetmaker xD
16:54:52  <Samu> i'm trying something
16:55:00  <Samu> making a line of ship depots
16:55:29  <Samu> the ship cannot make 45 degree turns in there
16:55:42  <Samu> it's a straight line
16:56:33  <Samu> when i tell it to go to the other dock, it just follows the line and only reverts at the end of line, no ship is lost pops up
16:57:05  <chillcore> samu: do you ever like ... just play?
16:58:12  <chillcore> but yeah that is what I see here too the ship reverses and no lost warning ...
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17:06:08  <Samu>!796&authkey=!ANpSFLOkRvrdXvk&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
17:06:16  <Samu> better mirroring
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17:49:17  <Samu> aha, ignore-on-commit
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17:52:44  <Alberth> o/
17:53:41  <andythenorth> o/
17:59:44  <andythenorth> more sea industries eh?
18:00:50  <Alberth> firs has plenty, doesn't it ?
18:05:57  * andythenorth considers looking up Iron Sands
18:06:01  <andythenorth> dunno what they are
18:06:06  <andythenorth> sea-dredged ore I guess
18:06:09  <andythenorth> sea coal I know about
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18:06:49  <chillcore> iron sands? sound like something you find in australia
18:06:54  <chillcore> just guessing though
18:07:02  <chillcore> also o/
18:07:19  <Alberth> can't you get diamonds or so from the ocean floor?
18:08:10  <andythenorth> New Zealand
18:08:28  <andythenorth> the problem with sea-based industries is that they often enforce transfers
18:08:33  <andythenorth> or mass-terraforming
18:08:37  <andythenorth> tedious
18:09:25  <Alberth> interesting stuff
18:09:39  <chillcore> ye
18:10:12  <chillcore> I was right about the continent though ... what do I win?
18:10:16  <chillcore> xD
18:10:59  <andythenorth> the right to be smug
18:11:06  <chillcore> TBH I was thinking abot red sand
18:11:39  * chillcore smugs and taps self on shoulder
18:12:14  * andythenorth considers whether sea industries are stupid
18:12:20  <andythenorth> it’s annoying having to transfer
18:12:20  <Alberth> It'd be good to keep the sea somewhat empty, imho
18:12:31  * chillcore slaps self with wet fish
18:12:36  <andythenorth> rivers are useless for shipping
18:12:38  <chillcore> ^^^ you done now?
18:12:46  <chillcore> not you andy ;)
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18:13:27  <Alberth> smugness reshaping?
18:13:39  <chillcore> hehe
18:16:28  <chillcore> how come rivers are useless andy?
18:16:43  <andythenorth> can’t build docks on them
18:16:49  <andythenorth> hard to go up slopes
18:16:54  <andythenorth> locks take too much space
18:17:14  <andythenorth> although I think I fixed the lost ships issue
18:17:21  <andythenorth> which is 1 out of 3 problems solved
18:17:35  <Samu> i was toying with the idea of auto-placing canals under docks if none exists yet
18:17:50  <chillcore> eh?
18:17:58  <Samu> same for ship depots
18:18:00  <andythenorth> (turning off 90º turns causes ships to get lost on river systems, for the record)
18:18:02  <Samu> to make it easier
18:18:11  <chillcore> me tests ...
18:19:09  <Samu> canals should be much cheaper to build :(
18:19:18  <andythenorth> they are with Squid Ate FISH in your game
18:19:23  <andythenorth> locks would be ‘solved’ by making them 2 tiles not 3
18:19:30  <andythenorth> still hard to place, but not stupid hard
18:19:50  <andythenorth> docks would be ‘solved’ by implementing the flat docks part of newgrf spec which is already defined
18:20:55  <chillcore> docks I can build
18:21:00  <chillcore> depots I can build
18:21:10  <chillcore> what else was there
18:21:14  <Samu> you need water
18:21:20  <chillcore> duh
18:21:35  <Samu> well, yeah.. duh, but you don't need water for lock
18:21:43  <chillcore> seriously samu?
18:21:50  <chillcore> rivers without water ...
18:21:53  <Samu> seriosuly
18:22:06  <Samu> it builds water for you
18:22:07  <chillcore> ok
18:22:09  <Samu> if there's none
18:22:23  <chillcore> we are talking rivers?
18:22:36  <chillcore> just to make sure
18:22:49  <andythenorth> yeah
18:22:54  <chillcore> ok
18:23:00  <andythenorth> docks are buildable, with some amount of terraforming
18:23:05  <andythenorth> and building canal tiles
18:23:06  <Samu> nevermind, i'm on a different thing
18:23:22  <chillcore> you need a flat slope yes
18:23:31  <chillcore> no autoslope
18:23:40  <chillcore> same for canals
18:23:47  <chillcore> maybe that should be changed?
18:23:50  <chillcore> andy?
18:24:19  <andythenorth> maybe
18:24:30  <Samu> i was also toying with the idea of auto-terraforming a missing corner or two for placing locks, but i fail at understanding this part of the code
18:24:35  <andythenorth> dock placement could be much less irritating imho
18:24:43  <chillcore> huhu
18:25:05  <andythenorth> I would prefer building on corner slopes
18:25:21  <andythenorth> a few years ago, Frosch(?) enabled building on all slopes for roadstops, made it much more fun
18:25:35  <andythenorth> arbitrary building restrictions don’t add anything to gameplay except yak shaving
18:25:42  <chillcore> ye autoslope ... me takes note of that for calan and dock
18:26:01  <chillcore> not that I will be able too but you never know
18:26:21  <chillcore> that roadstop on slopes was a nice patch too
18:26:34  <chillcore> was just missing graphics
18:26:49  <chillcore> ^^^ sloped ones
18:27:37  <chillcore> testing 90 degrees turning on rivers ... it works fine on canals
18:30:56  <andythenorth> ships get lost trivially
18:31:07  <andythenorth> on any complex river system with junctions
18:31:38  <andythenorth> they leave docks in the wrong direction (because no 90º turn) then get too far from the next order destination
18:31:49  <chillcore> hmm ok
18:32:09  <chillcore> it seems fine for the moment but the rivers are not that complex in this game
18:32:48  <andythenorth> it’s hard to trigger delibarately
18:32:53  <andythenorth> deliberately *
18:32:58  <chillcore> but yeah if you forget to ad a lock it turns back all the way to sea before it turns again
18:32:58  <andythenorth> but I’ve seen it multiple times
18:33:02  <chillcore> ok
18:33:17  <andythenorth> and afaict, it’s trivially solved by enabling 90º turns
18:33:24  <andythenorth> banning 90º turns for ships is bollocks anyway
18:33:33  <andythenorth> might as well ban it for RVs too
18:33:39  <andythenorth> :
18:33:40  <andythenorth> :P
18:33:45  <chillcore> I never use 90 degree turns muself
18:33:47  <chillcore> xD
18:34:10  <chillcore> it is silly for trains
18:34:21  <chillcore> maybe we should have it per vehicle group
18:34:32  <andythenorth> I used to ban it in my games for ‘realism'
18:34:35  <chillcore> I heard the devs want moar settings :P
18:34:42  <andythenorth> but eh, it’s totally misguided
18:36:17  <chillcore> it fucks with my mind too much when I see a train do that
18:36:32  <chillcore> about as much as them moving hills in TTD
18:36:39  <chillcore> at least those were funny
18:37:48  <chillcore> we should get those back for tropical
18:37:59  <chillcore> moving sand dunes
18:38:44  <andythenorth> winner
18:38:50  <andythenorth> also eroding coasts
18:39:01  * andythenorth considers making a GS: “Longshore Drift"
18:39:13  <andythenorth> we need more than one GS per game :P
18:39:15  <andythenorth> let them battle
18:39:30  <andythenorth> hmm
18:39:31  <andythenorth> ha
18:39:33  <chillcore> hehe
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18:39:40  * andythenorth ponders a GS wrapper around modules
18:39:55  <andythenorth> and an app for compiling
18:40:05  <andythenorth> maybe a web app :P
18:40:20  <andythenorth> choose modules, choose parameters, download
18:40:22  <soupy> So, if I transfer alcohol to a central station and neglect it, does that throw off the profits for the feeders who helped collect the fruit to make the alcohol?
18:40:36  <soupy> If that makes any sense.
18:41:03  <chillcore> andy that sounds cool-ish
18:41:18  <chillcore> do GSs need compiling?
18:41:24  <andythenorth> not exactly
18:41:31  <chillcore> ah ok
18:41:45  <andythenorth> but some end up with a makefile or such to manage releases
18:41:45  <chillcore> more like AI yes?
18:41:48  <andythenorth> version numbers and crap
18:41:52  <chillcore> ah like that
18:42:13  * andythenorth any rule like ‘one per game’ is circumventable :P
18:42:18  <andythenorth> even though it’s a good rule
18:43:16  <chillcore> soupy: neglected cargo vanishes afer a long period of time but I am not sure if the same holds for cargo in transfer
18:45:14  <chillcore> andy: hmm ... must investigate GS some day
18:46:24  <chillcore> I written my roadbuilder AI in such a way that I can run multiple instances without them fighting to make the same conections
18:46:37  <chillcore> almost totally random
18:47:03  <chillcore> maybe I shouldad some code ... if the one detects the other they stop building and commence a flamewar
18:47:07  <chillcore> :P
18:47:58  <chillcore> with signs else the players see nothing if they do not have the console open
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18:51:40  <Wolf01> hi hi
18:51:58  <chillcore> hello wolf o/
18:53:03  <chillcore> soupy: to answer the rest of your qustion ... the payment is done over the wjhole chain ... so indirectly yes the feeders suffer but it will only be the last vehicle that takes the hit, so to speak
18:53:45  <chillcore> in the end it is all your company that makes a profit or not
18:53:47  <Wolf01> wow, I did some trx training after 15 years away from the gym... it killed me
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19:24:59  <andythenorth> eh so what would you call a tram/truck that hauls scrap metal or recyclables
19:26:27  <andythenorth>
19:26:47  <andythenorth> and/or
19:30:41  <andythenorth> the cargo is the significant fact, not the body shape
19:31:10  <frosch123> trash train :)
19:32:17  <frosch123> or just "tramsh"
19:32:23  <andythenorth> ha
19:32:24  <andythenorth> and in the EN-GB translation?
19:32:25  <andythenorth> :P
19:32:34  <andythenorth> ‘junk truck'
19:32:35  <andythenorth> :P
19:32:55  <andythenorth> FIRS renames ‘junk’ -> ‘scrap’ for EN-GB
19:32:56  <andythenorth> :P
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19:35:01  <frosch123> well, "Wertstoffbahn" if you want a truely german construct
19:36:06  <andythenorth> you can translate it when I add it :D
19:36:48  <frosch123> does en-gb have a word that is as similar to valuables, but means trash?
19:36:51  <andythenorth> Google translate suggests ‘value web’ ha
19:37:13  <andythenorth> en-gb probably has a phrase that is similar
19:37:16  <andythenorth> if I could think of it
19:39:27  <kamnet> what's the wordd?
19:40:16  <Samu> renewables
19:41:55  <frosch123> kamnet: a cargo tram for bulky household waste
19:43:02  <kamnet> Guterbin! :D
19:43:25  <frosch123> what language is that? :p
19:43:36  <Samu>
19:45:58  <kamnet> Austrian. The Guterbim is a famous trash collection tram in Vienna
19:46:01  <Samu> garbage
19:46:07  <Samu> waste
19:46:33  <frosch123> ah
19:46:41  * frosch123 hands kamnet a Ì
19:47:03  <andythenorth> trash truck
19:47:12  <kamnet> Yeah, I'm bad with remembering those :P
19:48:12  <kamnet> Pretty much any municipality that has used them call them "trash tram" or something close to that.
19:48:35  <frosch123> <- no link to any english page :p
19:48:45  <andythenorth> junk truck
19:48:45  <andythenorth> scrap truck
19:48:45  <andythenorth> waste truck
19:48:45  <andythenorth> roll-on, roll-off container hook lift waggon-and-drag truck
19:49:36  <Samu>
19:49:54  <frosch123> hmm, there is an extra-brittish "skip" in my dictionary
19:49:56  <frosch123> skip tram
19:52:07  <andythenorth> skip truck :)
19:52:17  <andythenorth> might not translate easily ;)
19:52:20  <kamnet> Zurich also runs a trash collection tram called Cargotram, not to be confused with the famous VW parts delivery tram in Dresden
19:52:22  <frosch123> why truck? weren't you looking for a tram?
19:52:27  <andythenorth> truck + tram
19:52:32  <andythenorth> or tram + truck
19:52:36  <andythenorth> or tram, truck, tram
19:52:40  <andythenorth> dunno, depends on roster
19:53:27  <frosch123> well, i do not know a word for such vehicle in german, usually you refer to the company/service as "container service"
19:53:30  <frosch123> and their vehicles
19:54:58  <Samu> Freight trams in Vienna
19:55:24  <kamnet> trash-collection tram, then?
19:55:30  <andythenorth> “Unwanted consumer and industrial waste in bales (piece goods or countable bulk) or shredded (uncountable bulk) tram”
19:55:38  <andythenorth> also truck
19:55:53  <Samu> dustbin
19:56:03  <andythenorth> actually “Unwanted” / “Residual value” /s
19:56:28  <Samu> Garbage truck or dustbin lorry refers to a truck specially designed to collect municipal solid waste and haul the collected waste to a solid waste treatment facility such as a landfill. Other common names for this type of truck include trash truck in the United States, and rubbish truck, bin wagon, dustcart, bin lorry or bin van elsewhere. Technical names include waste collection vehicle and refuse collection vehicle. These trucks are a com
19:56:38  <Samu> eas
19:57:23  <frosch123> there was some drama on german forums
19:57:27  <andythenorth> orly?
19:57:44  <frosch123> because someone replaced the translation of "food truck" with "edibles truck"
19:58:37  <andythenorth> edibles is stupid
19:58:42  <andythenorth> I use it in my sets
19:58:44  <andythenorth> but it’s stupid
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20:01:30  <andythenorth> bye
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20:17:39  <kamnet> everybody sleeps
20:18:28  <chillcore> half ...
20:18:31  <chillcore> hehe
20:18:55  <chillcore> stupid change of clocks ...
20:19:14  <chillcore> it is 21:18
20:19:32  <chillcore> for me ... for everone else it is 22:18
20:19:35  <chillcore> :P
20:19:47  <chillcore> not  everyone  ...
20:20:14  <chillcore> but yeah peeps get up an hor earlier so
20:20:23  <chillcore> silly sytem
20:20:56  <chillcore> silly typoing too xD
20:21:27  <kamnet> meh
20:22:15  <frosch123> chillcore: the time is correct if wt3 commits at 19:45 :p
20:22:32  <frosch123> you should adjust your life to proper time references
20:22:35  <frosch123> like ottd commit times
20:22:41  <chillcore> hehe
20:22:53  <chillcore> I don't use clocks ... at all
20:23:03  <chillcore> except for appointments
20:23:25  <chillcore> work kids ... stuff like that
20:23:46  <frosch123> huh? what else would you use a clock for?
20:24:02  <chillcore> otherwise I eat when hungry, sleep when tired, etc
20:24:19  <frosch123> i thought everyone would do that :p
20:24:38  <chillcore> I mean I do not live by a watch
20:24:40  <chillcore> hehe
20:24:52  <frosch123> well, do you know someone who does?
20:25:10  <chillcore> diner is not at 6 ... but when tummy goes grrrrrrr
20:25:15  <chillcore> plenty of peeps do
20:25:47  <chillcore> if food is not on the table at 12.30 sharp they go nuts
20:25:50  <chillcore> xD
20:27:00  <chillcore> thiss one place I used to work for a while ... we had 16 minutes to eat
20:27:05  <chillcore> 16 ...
20:27:07  <chillcore> lol
20:27:24  <chillcore> so I did not bother
20:27:32  <chillcore> takes me 45 at least
20:28:15  <chillcore> not that I eat slow ... but really 16 mins
20:28:54  <chillcore> sometimes I cook at 3 AM
20:28:58  <chillcore> don't care
20:29:17  <frosch123> breakfast or dinner :p
20:29:21  <frosch123> +?
20:29:39  <chillcore> whatever I feel like ye
20:30:05  <frosch123> ok, i never eat at night
20:30:11  <chillcore> if I go to bed now I'll be making cofee at  2AM
20:30:19  <chillcore> haha
20:30:42  <frosch123> my stomach has close from 0:00 to 6:00
20:30:49  <chillcore> ok
20:31:05  <frosch123> i guess it's less flexible than the rest of my body :)
20:32:04  <chillcore> I do not start moving furniture during the night ... lucky neighbours
20:33:04  <chillcore> but yeah my body has no clock
20:33:21  <chillcore> long time ago I used to work 14-16 hours a day
20:33:25  <chillcore> 7/7
20:33:38  <chillcore> sometimes I added 24 to that
20:34:07  <chillcore> then 3 shifts ...
20:34:22  <chillcore> guess it is a leftover from that time
20:34:47  <chillcore> not complaining though
20:35:26  <chillcore> but it is hard for peeps to keep up "whadda ya mean breaksie?"
20:35:38  <chillcore> we just started lol
20:36:13  <chillcore> although with getting older I did cam down a bit
20:36:17  <chillcore> calm*
20:36:25  <chillcore> except for my sleep pattern
20:36:40  <frosch123> my coworker plays poker every night, usually arrives at 10:30 at work and has lunch at 12:00 :p
20:37:20  <chillcore> sux for relation ships sleeping like that ... I just can't stay in bed without being tired
20:37:31  <chillcore> hehe that's a nice rythm
20:38:01  <chillcore> he leaves at 16:00?
20:38:26  <chillcore> or you have gliding hours?
20:38:47  <chillcore> just curious ... nosy me
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20:40:06  <frosch123> you can do your 40 hours/week whenever you like
20:40:15  <frosch123> as long as you are not missing from meetings constantly :p
20:40:30  <chillcore> reminds me of that other place I worked ... we left at 6:00 with the van ... arrived at whatever hour (depending where we were working) and had breakfast for 30 mins before starting
20:40:36  <chillcore> ah that is cool
20:40:37  <frosch123> some people come at 5am, some at 11am
20:40:42  <chillcore> nice
20:40:55  <chillcore> I'd be there for like 2 days ...
20:41:49  <chillcore> I'd love a job like that
20:41:52  <frosch123> yeah, the night watch doesn't ever bother to ask some about their access key
20:41:56  <frosch123> they already know them :p
20:42:06  <chillcore> yeah
20:46:54  <chillcore> but yeah working 12 hours a day does not bother me much ... making plenty of money and no time to spend it ...
20:47:09  <frosch123> [22:40] <chillcore> I'd be there for like 2 days ... <- actually, i think you have to make at least 4 hours on monday to friday every day
20:47:30  <chillcore> ah ok ... makes sense
20:47:39  <frosch123> or you have to specifically ask for for overtime-compensation
20:48:04  <chillcore> hehe peeps are not too happy to pay that most of the times
20:49:16  <chillcore> Volvo was nice for that ... between 22:00 and 06:00 130%, saterdays 150%, and sundays 200%
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20:49:37  <frosch123> well, let's say, it does not help that the former head of worker council was at the legal limit of 400 (?) hours/year overtime
20:49:52  <chillcore> hehe
20:50:48  <chillcore> still not that terribly much ... +-2 a day ...
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20:51:43  <frosch123> well, for the true work-a-holics, you have to start wondering whether they compute the hours correctly
20:52:02  <frosch123> or whether they write down less than they actually do, just to avoid the trouble with the legal limits...
20:52:17  <chillcore> possibly yeah
20:52:25  <chillcore> make that most likely
20:52:31  <frosch123> that's what i mean with: it get's tricky if the working council president is one of them :p
20:53:09  <chillcore> I had this one place that worked with a badge soo that was all payed ... +4 a day
20:53:21  <chillcore> this other place was 4 hours under the table
20:53:27  <chillcore> but yeah
20:54:42  <chillcore> but that happens less and less
20:55:09  <chillcore> these days they hire interims ... easier to let go if things slow down
20:56:19  <chillcore> I know this one place where they still search a programmer ... prefferably little to no industry experience
20:57:05  <chillcore> kinda my profile but I don't like the guy for things he does so ...
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20:59:09  <chillcore> I'll be doing something I like doing soon enough hopefully
20:59:31  <chillcore> ripping old pcs apart and putting them back toghether with a new HDD in it
20:59:41  <chillcore> sell them for 100 euros
20:59:55  <chillcore> for the less fortunate
21:00:19  <chillcore> that and teaching old ladies how to send e-mails :P
21:00:29  <chillcore> or stuffs like that
21:00:59  <chillcore> this other company that I breached their security don't want ot work with outsiders
21:01:05  <chillcore> meh
21:01:34  <chillcore> I'll tell them to hire me so I am no longer :P
21:03:13  <chillcore> They still want to have a talk with me so I'll see
21:03:23  <chillcore> waiting for an apointment for that
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21:04:39  <chillcore> I  am just looking forward again to not having a boss above me
21:05:23  <chillcore> that sux, especially if your direct supervisor has no clue
21:08:16  <chillcore> making some coffee ... anyone want some :P
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21:08:54  <frosch123> finished mine 2 hours ago
21:11:23  <chillcore> making only half a kettle then ;)
21:11:29  <chillcore> fresh in the morning
21:12:26  <frosch123> i only drink coffee in the evening, as weird as it may sound :)
21:13:16  <chillcore> hehe ... I have no probs having some before going to bed
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21:13:26  <chillcore> but I need it in the morning
21:13:44  <chillcore> or rather when waking up
21:14:16  <chillcore> not hat weird tbh
21:15:17  <chillcore> I dont dink softdrinks much ... actually almost never
21:15:30  <chillcore> they make me thirsty
21:16:45  <chillcore> I am halway rewritng MHL ...
21:16:51  <chillcore> in my head
21:16:54  <chillcore> :P
21:17:20  <chillcore> just need some part getting rid of the max_height dependency
21:17:25  <chillcore> not all of them
21:18:11  <chillcore> but the code will tell ... too hard to explain with you confusing me all the time xD
21:19:09  <chillcore> we need it indeed for newgrf stuffs
21:19:17  <chillcore> not for generating maps
21:19:31  <chillcore> nor heightmaps
21:19:40  <chillcore> simply put ...
21:20:08  <chillcore> and indeed maxheight should not change midgame
21:20:25  <chillcore> but level of top tile still can
21:20:30  <chillcore> if done properly
21:21:32  <chillcore> what has happened is that everythingis tied to it and that is wrong
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21:21:54  <Mr_Bones_> anyone with commit privs willing to fix this:
21:21:56  <Mr_Bones_> media/ error: value "game;simulation;transport;tycoon;deluxe;economics;multiplayer;money;train;ship;bus;truck;aircraft;cargo" for locale string list key "Keywords" in group "Desktop Entry" does not have a semicolon (';') as trailing character
21:22:03  <Mr_Bones_> just needs a semicolon at the end of the line
21:23:12  <chillcore> hmm most devs sleep now Mr_Bones
21:23:28  <chillcore> can you submit that to FlySpray please?
21:25:35  <Mr_Bones_> doesn't really seem like a big enough deal for me to create an account for
21:26:01  <chillcore> does it crash the game or just wome warnings during compilation or?
21:26:03  <frosch123> i see nothing in the specification saying it should end with a ;
21:27:55  <frosch123> never mind, found it
21:29:54  <Mr_Bones_> it's best just to trust desktop-file-validate ;-)
21:30:15  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27221 trunk/media/ (2015-04-07 23:30:04 +0200 )
21:30:16  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Multi-value keys in the desktop entry shall end with a trailing separator. (Mr_Bones)
21:30:31  <Mr_Bones_> nah, it's just a warning when creating the package.  on gentoo the desktop files are checked at package creation time and warnings are displayed.
21:30:40  <Mr_Bones_> nice, thanks.
21:30:43  <chillcore> ok
21:30:55  <Mr_Bones_> I can punt the sed patching in the ebuild for the next release.
21:31:42  <chillcore> now I can delete this file too ... ;)
21:33:28  <Mr_Bones_> now the only patch we're carrying is the CFLAGS one.  Any chance y'all would consider just using the existing CFLAGS if they're already set at configure time?
21:34:05  * chillcore should change nick and try that same trick with tgen light patch :P
21:35:08  <frosch123> Mr_Bones_: ./configure --CFLAGS=$CFLAGS ?
21:35:35  <frosch123> anyway, i have no idea about the configure magic
21:35:38  <Mr_Bones_> mmmm, maybe.  let me take a look at the configure script.
21:36:39  <Mr_Bones_> heh.  yeah, configure claims that CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS are influential but that's kind of a lie.
21:40:00  <Mr_Bones_> well, that's ok, it's a small patch and seems like the configure code doesn't change much between releases so it's a light burden.
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21:53:14  <Samu> i got a question, i never used these "->" signals
21:53:16  <Samu> if (indspec->behaviour == INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) prospector = _current_company;
21:53:39  <Samu> is this gonna do what I think it's gonna do?
21:53:43  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:54:23  <Samu> if the industry that is about to be prospected is built on water, then set the prospector to the current company?
21:55:02  <Samu> what does the -> do?
21:55:53  <chillcore> it is an arrow ... it points?
21:58:29  <Samu> points to the behaviour?
21:58:36  <chillcore> huhu
21:59:19  <chillcore> this->behavior
21:59:34  <chillcore> your->behavior
21:59:41  <chillcore> my->behavior
21:59:50  <chillcore> etc.
22:00:18  <chillcore> asuming all of them have behavior to point at
22:01:02  <Samu>  /* Prospected industries that are not built on water are built as OWNER_TOWN to not e.g. be build on owned land of the founder */
22:01:09  <chillcore> book samu ... do yourself a favour
22:01:12  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
22:01:19  <Samu> :( ok ty
22:01:27  <chillcore> hmm ...
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22:29:49  <Samu> if (indspec->behaviour | INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) prospector = _current_company;
22:31:51  <Samu> gah, this looks horribad
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23:15:35  <kamnet> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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23:46:46  <Samu> this is complicated
23:47:01  <Samu> i am passing thru 3 functions
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