Log for #openttd on 8th April 2015:
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00:09:11  <kamnet> Hoorah. Under a Tornado Warning and severee lightning and flooding
00:09:18  <Sylf> Baldy = broken record?
00:19:26  <kamnet> No, broken records eventually stop repeating the noise.
00:26:36  <soupy> I'm having trouble understanding CargoDist's payments.... I'm getting charged for a lot of the trips I'm making. =/
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00:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause> soupy: check the wiki. it's explained there. short version: cargodist has to "guess" what the final payment will be, to make vehicles that never deliver anything still count as profitable. when this estimate is too high, the difference will be reduced from the vehicle that makes the final delivery
00:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you still earn money for the delivery, just less than expected
00:47:18  <soupy> Ahhh, I think I get it now.
00:48:22  <soupy> Well, I have a train making a long-haul, then busses at the terminal taking to nearby towns.  When they come to the terminal from the towns, everyone is happy.  But if they are taken from the terminal to the towns, they get very unhappy.
00:48:52  <soupy> So for now I've set the busses to not pick up from the station.  Let's see how that works out.
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00:57:59  <soupy> I've read the wiki a few times, I must be missing something
01:01:58  <soupy> Ah, was reading the wrong page.  This one seems to explain it perfectly:
01:02:50  <soupy> Although refusing to finish the customers trip did save me some cash, it felt cheaty considering the mechanic... so now everyone gets to go home happy,
01:09:07  <kamnet> As long as the customers are happy, you'll make some dosh
01:18:01  <supermop> modelling pinot bottles and crates
01:18:29  <supermop> i wonder how balthazar and larger sized bottles are shipped
01:19:14  <supermop> could just have 4' tall wine bottles sitting on platforms but that may look odd...
01:21:11  <supermop> i'll model the punt as well why not
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01:33:15  <kamnet> still enjoying the modeling, huh?
01:44:12  <supermop> something off with the green glass though - its refracting as if the hollow part of the bottle is solid glass and the thickness of the bottle is hollow
01:49:05  <supermop> looks better to make the whole bottle just a solid object
01:49:22  <supermop> then float a cylinder of wine in there if need be
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05:00:44  <chillcore> good morning interwebz o/
05:08:47  <chillcore> <supermop> modelling pinot bottles and crates
05:08:47  <chillcore>  i wonder how balthazar and larger sized bottles are shipped
05:09:45  <chillcore> wine bottle are packed 6 in a box same height and width as the bottles, the bottle sare seperated with cardboard
05:11:11  <chillcore> larger beer bottles come in the same sized crates as their smaller brothers, they just have less in them
05:11:23  <chillcore> ;)
05:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm always amazed how crates of different manufacturers fit on top of each other
05:12:42  <chillcore> standards
05:12:54  <chillcore> like europalettes
05:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> except when they don't :p
05:13:15  <chillcore> then they are not europalletes xD
05:13:19  <chillcore> but yeah
05:13:54  <chillcore> thes 120 by 120 palletes are not recuperated
05:14:06  <chillcore> thye go in the trash
05:14:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the fireplace
05:14:26  <chillcore> nah not even that
05:14:50  <chillcore> some peeps do come get em to do that sure
05:15:19  <chillcore> but you'll not be taking them europalletes ... uhuh
05:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause> those are expensive
05:15:54  <chillcore> yeah
05:16:33  <chillcore> that is why truck are 140 wide on the inside too
05:17:03  <chillcore> 240*       you can fit two or three alongside
05:17:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not familiar with the measures of europalettes
05:17:41  <chillcore> +s ... thing is broken again :P
05:17:45  <chillcore> 80 by 120
05:18:28  <chillcore> with corners sawn off
05:19:11  <chillcore> makes it easier for reachtruck drivers to guide them in place
05:19:34  <chillcore> all to make you work faster harder better
05:19:37  <chillcore> caching
05:20:23  <chillcore> same with this winter/sumer hour
05:20:32  <chillcore> it is  not to make our lives better
05:20:48  <chillcore> it is so that companies pay less on elec to light up the place
05:22:01  <Eddi|zuHause> so you save more on dimming the light than it costs to educate people to maneuver in the dark?
05:22:22  <chillcore> haha ... ;)
05:22:41  <chillcore> the inside of factories used to be dark places
05:22:54  <chillcore> hence them jagged roofs wit windows in them
05:23:11  <chillcore> catches more light
05:23:24  <chillcore> but in winter that does not help much
05:23:36  <chillcore> see it should be 6.30 now
05:24:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and i should be sleeping
05:24:36  <chillcore> xD
05:25:31  <chillcore> but yeah ... everybody works an hour later then three weeks ago
05:25:50  <chillcore> because there is still light outside
05:25:57  <chillcore> meh
05:26:15  <chillcore> +in the evening*
05:27:54  <chillcore> or rather the reverse of that ... moar coffee
05:29:52  <chillcore> in spain they got it ... try finding someone in the office between 12:00 and 15:00
05:29:55  <chillcore> lol
05:36:11  <kamnet> Morning
05:36:54  <chillcore> evening o/
05:37:25  <kamnet> where is it evening alredy??
05:37:36  <chillcore> not your place?
05:37:42  <chillcore> hmm ...
05:37:58  <chillcore> here it is morning indeed ...
05:38:02  <chillcore> anyhoo
05:40:06  <kamnet> it's 1:39 am edt. well yes middle of the night, but still AM... lol
05:40:39  <chillcore> ah ok ... I got center on the clock for you region
05:40:52  <chillcore> I play too many games with peeps worldwide :P
05:40:58  <kamnet> My cat is a slinky. I t takes up my half of the bed. and if I come within 3 feet while he's asleep, he will actually give me a courtesy meow to warn me not to disrupt him, and then he'll grow even longer to occupy more space so I have no room.
05:41:58  <chillcore> hehe ... growl back
05:42:35  <kamnet> scratches my arms up to hell and back
05:43:00  <chillcore> ye been there too ... :P
05:43:32  <chillcore> such cute animals
05:52:42  <kamnet> indeeed
06:00:17  <Rubidium> chillcore: next time say to Samu that p->x is syntactic sugar for (*p).x ;)
06:02:10  <chillcore> Rubidium:  Thanks for the hint.
06:03:13  <chillcore> I really hate pointers ... and I should take my own advice ... book
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06:43:22  <supermop> reisling bottle is more like 35 cm tall right?
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06:43:47  <supermop> as opposed to the 28-30 of bordeaux and pinot bottles?
06:44:10  <supermop> i recall them being difficult to fit on normal shelves with 12" spacing
06:44:32  <supermop> going to look forempties on alibaba
06:45:14  <supermop> hmm i find 33cm sounds good enough
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08:04:10  <Gderckx> can anyone tell me how to make the RAWR file a static-NEWGRF file?
08:04:45  <Gderckx> I tried to do so in the game documents section but I cannot find a Static-newgrf section
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08:12:59  <planetmaker> game documents section?
08:13:57  <planetmaker> add it as normal newgrf to your game, exit openttd. Then edit your openttd.cfg in a plain text editor: move the line concerning rawr to the [newgrf-static] section. Create the latter, if it doesn't exit
08:14:26  <planetmaker> then restart openttd and start a new game
08:14:45  <planetmaker> well. or continue an old. doesn't matter :)
08:22:38  <V453000>
08:22:44  <V453000> oh he quit
08:22:46  <V453000> meh
08:23:07  <V453000> seriously, people asking question and waiting for just 3 minutes should just go "somewhere"
08:25:44  <planetmaker> oh, he quit even before my answer :P
08:25:56  <planetmaker> impatient kids these days
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08:35:31  <chillcore> yeah terrible attention span and patience
08:35:57  <chillcore> o/ planemaker and V453000
08:36:05  <V453000> heyo
08:36:50  <V453000> fuck humanz
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08:42:37  <chillcore> hmm?
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08:47:52  <planetmaker> o/
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14:34:52  <andythenorth> o/
14:35:13  <planetmaker> \o
14:35:27  <planetmaker> new fish, eh? :)
14:37:03  <andythenorth> si
14:37:14  <andythenorth> we’re cleaning FIRS branches?
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14:38:37  <Samu> hi
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14:49:02  <planetmaker> oh, I said I would, did I?
14:49:35  <andythenorth> we just close them?
14:49:43  <planetmaker> actually I did. And forgot to push :P
14:49:45  <planetmaker> Just pushed
14:49:50  <andythenorth> ok
14:49:53  <andythenorth> ta
14:50:14  <planetmaker> 5 changesets, -4 heads :)
14:50:44  <alluke> what are rcyc composed of?
14:50:54  <planetmaker> r, c, y and c
14:51:02  <alluke> ha ha
14:51:32  <andythenorth> it’s a non-specific term
14:51:46  <alluke> recycled paper at least
14:52:09  <alluke> for mnsp
14:52:40  <alluke> arent they cardboard boxes and similar stuff
14:53:29  <andythenorth>
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14:57:58  <alluke> i know but what are the fmsp, bdmt and chemicals made of exactly?
14:58:57  <andythenorth> chemicals are made of chemicals
14:59:04  <andythenorth> farm supplies are whatever farms need
14:59:11  <andythenorth> building materials are for building stuff
14:59:13  <alluke> yes
14:59:48  <alluke> but what of those can you bake from rubbish
15:00:43  <andythenorth> bbl
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15:06:59  <planetmaker> alluke, possibly each of them
15:08:09  <argoneus> le train face
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15:08:24  <argoneus> you guys are C/C++ wizards right
15:08:36  <argoneus> I need some advice
15:08:54  <argoneus> how do you guys load plugins, e.g. newgrfs while the game is running?
15:09:13  <argoneus> I'm trying to write a program with some plugins that are basically scripts
15:09:20  <argoneus> that will be able to reload them without restarting
15:10:42  <planetmaker> the file is simply read anew and its content re-evaluated
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15:11:03  <planetmaker> and that's why doing so in run-time of a game regularily messes with the savegame, rendering them broken beyond repair
15:11:30  <Samu> sorry, my internet today is failin
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15:22:53  <Alberth> moin
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15:25:18  <chillcore> o/
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15:36:01  <kamnet> Good mrning all
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15:36:15  <kamnet> or afternoon to some. maybe evening. heck, hi.
15:36:16  <Alberth> moin
15:36:38  <Alberth> kamnet: use UGT  :)
15:38:22  <kamnet> UGT?
15:39:03  <Alberth> universal greeting time
15:39:11  <Alberth> invented at irc
15:39:26  <Alberth> it's morning when you join, and evening when you leave
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15:40:24  <kamnet> Makes sense!
15:40:54  <Alberth> so, morning (ugt) to you kamnet  :)
15:40:55  <kamnet> Funny thing, been on the Internet since 1994, and by and large IRC culture isn't all that familiar.
15:41:45  <kamnet> I imagine it's like somebody who's been connected for 20 years asking how email is used and what's it good for.
15:41:51  <Alberth> one of the advantages of having a distributed system :)
15:42:42  <kamnet> Then again, I still dabble in the even more obscure these days - BBS. :P
15:44:10  <soupy> So, I have the vacuum maglev NewGRF, and it's causing me troubles even 50 years before it's been invented.  I find myself not wanting to create my continental express line yet because I don't believe there's a way of upgrading from maglev to vacuum maglev.
15:46:34  <Alberth> upgrading is boring, build new lines instead
15:48:44  <soupy> Well, I'm definitely upgrading up to the maglev level (thank you monorail and maglev upgrade NewGRF), then run the vacuum tube around it.
15:48:44  <V453000> PURR probably works between anything, but I am not sure
15:48:47  <V453000> hm maybe not
15:49:14  <V453000> why isnt there CC_EVERYTHING for tracktypes? :P
15:50:02  <Alberth> just use NUTS, and you don't need to upgrade
15:50:19  <soupy> To be honest, even the monorail maglev upgrade thing is a bit OP for me.  Electric trains should not be able to run on monorail track.... but Jesus, if I have to go through and recreate all my trains all over again...
15:51:03  <Samu> when i want to upgrade rail, i send all trains to depots
15:51:08  <soupy> I do like the idea of having a bit of logistics fun in running a concurrent vacuum line though.
15:51:16  <Alberth> soupy: default set forces that upgrade on you, fix it by using a better vehicle newgrf
15:51:23  <Samu> then use a big square box upgrading everything in the map
15:51:35  <Samu> then the boring part, upgrading trains
15:52:09  <Alberth> yeah, don't ever simply upgrade, it's just boring work
15:52:27  <Samu> pick trains one by one, from the list
15:52:39  <Samu> center location, it's on an old depot
15:52:45  <Samu> build new depot near it
15:52:55  <soupy> I'm using NARS and a couple of other sets.
15:53:11  <Samu> copy the orders, build the same wagons, and start it
15:53:18  <V453000> that doesnt quite work if you have hundreds of trains Samu
15:53:19  <Alberth> soupy: too much choice for me :)
15:53:21  <Samu> then do the same for every other
15:53:59  <V453000> still stupid tedious process I can solve by one click with autoreplace
15:54:32  <Alberth> usually you need a different number of trains on the faster tracks
15:54:52  <V453000> not with nuts :)
15:54:57  <soupy> Alberth: Yeah, this is the first time I've played modded OTTD, going with too many sets was a bad idea.  Plus the progression between sets is a little bit off, so there's always one set that blows everything else away.
15:55:37  <V453000> with nuts the faster train classes have lower capacities or some other problem, so the number of trains you actually need stays similar
15:55:39  <V453000> with exceptions of course
15:56:17  <Alberth> yeah
15:56:44  <soupy> Do I want this 200km/h engine for 0,000 a year, or this 150km/h engine for 0,000?
15:57:03  <Alberth> the biggest problem with nuts, but also any other train set, is that I don't have high speed vehicles available at the start :p
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15:57:17  <Alberth> soupy: depends on terrain and amount of TE :)
15:57:30  <Alberth> soupy: but yeah, sets are not tuned against each other
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15:58:17  <soupy> Yeah, I'm trying to pay more attention to numbers other than raw speed on this playthrough.
15:58:32  <V453000> Alberth: start in 2000? :D
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15:58:45  <Alberth> it means imho basically that playing with a more than one vehicle set is useless  if they overlap in time
15:59:00  <Alberth> V453000: that's an idea :)
15:59:14  <Alberth> don't think I ever tried that :)
16:00:20  <V453000> XD
16:00:23  <V453000> 2100 master race :P
16:00:57  <Alberth> hmm, making a newgrf for maglev at 1930 shouldn't be too difficult either :)
16:01:33  <soupy> I started in 1850 on this go-around.  Apparently I forgot to include an early ship NewGRF... made startup a little more difficult.
16:01:46  <Alberth> :)
16:02:04  <kamnet> If you don't ever want to deal with upgrading, just use one rail set and one train set that gives you everything all at once. Then you can focus on pure gameplay of serving industry.
16:02:07  <Alberth> I usually start abort, fix, and start again in such a case
16:02:39  <Alberth> kamnet: aka NUTS :)
16:03:10  <V453000> \o/
16:03:19  <Alberth> I hardly ever play for more than 50 years or so
16:03:28  <V453000> HOW DO YOU GET SLUGS THEN
16:03:31  <V453000> ÂŽ=(
16:04:06  <Alberth> I know, so many undisclosed fancyness :(
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16:05:25  <soupy> I've gone from 1850 to 2000 way too quickly in this playthrough.  I was mostly screwing around with magic I didn't understand (Cargodist), and lacked ships, so a lot of the time I had to let the game just run to make money.
16:06:22  <Alberth> ah, yeah, used NARS for the first time last week or so, takes ages to make any money :p
16:06:26  <soupy> Now I (think I) know how to use Cargodist, I'm tempted to start again and see how quickly I can bang through early-game.
16:06:34  <Alberth> set is very nicely balanced in that respect
16:06:44  <soupy> Definitely, I've enjoyed the challenge.
16:07:07  <V453000> I think it is questionnable if "making barely any money" is a good thing :P
16:07:29  <V453000> just shows who wants to build and who wants to wait :P
16:07:31  <Alberth> yeah, I wasn't enjoying it much, in terms of game play
16:09:54  <Alberth> but just watching trains can be satisfying too at times, especially when you are really too tired to do much building :p
16:10:38  <V453000> well sure :)
16:10:55  <V453000> but if you are bored or tired of building at the start of the game, something is probably wrong
16:11:17  <soupy> Yeah, I don't enjoy building quite as much any more.  I'm more into the logistics of perfecting each route.  The slow progression has given me a lot of time to tweak things.
16:11:42  <Alberth> V453000: the disease is called 'working', there is no easy escape :(
16:11:46  <V453000> XD
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16:14:14  <Alberth> playing with busy-bee that tells you what connections to make it just manageable :)
16:14:25  <Alberth> s/it/is/
16:15:39  <V453000> :)
16:17:24  <soupy> Right now I'm fighting to make my engineering supply chain more effective.  5 bauxite mines being trucked to a close-by aluminum plant, then metal shipped by train to the machine shop.
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16:17:47  <soupy> It's just producing enough engineering supplies to keep 1 mine at double capacity.
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16:20:53  <soupy> I really dislike the role that vehicle speed plays in industry production.  Taking a 17% production hit because you want to play with trucks is BS.
16:21:44  <Samu> nerf trains
16:22:11  <soupy> I don't want to nerf trains, I want trucks to be un-nerfed. :P
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16:24:16  <V453000> you can hack it with FIRS
16:24:23  <V453000> the station rating hax XD
16:25:21  <soupy> Oh?
16:25:50  <soupy> Is that the one where you have a one-tile station with a train in it at all times?
16:28:36  <V453000> no, in the grf parameters the grf is able to hack station ratings to be always 100% or much more friendly
16:28:36  <Alberth> you can just change how station rating works in the parameters of FIRS
16:28:57  <V453000> I personally hate the feature because it means you dont have to care if you pickup of ten or not often, which is not motivating bullshit, but k :)
16:30:28  <Alberth> I never use 100%
16:30:49  <Alberth> in fact, I care very little for the amount of cargo
16:31:13  <Alberth> "enough to make a profit" is sufficient :)
16:31:55  <Samu> wasn't there a setting that made industries more volatile?
16:32:08  <planetmaker> o/
16:32:10  <Alberth> FIRS is also boring as production doesn't change much over time
16:32:11  <Samu> they could instantly lose 50% production or so
16:32:26  <Alberth> Samu: the original production setting
16:32:33  <Alberth> hi hi planetmaker
16:32:35  <Samu> ah, :)
16:33:44  <Samu> they could even bankrupt
16:33:45  <Alberth> variations are bigger, but they happen less often, so it may not make much difference
16:34:01  <soupy> If I could set it to just give me the 17% that I'm losing for using trucks back, then I'd be happy.
16:34:17  <kamnet> I guess I should start mocking up a GRFID wiki page.
16:35:04  <Alberth> soupy: add a statue in the town?
16:35:19  <soupy> It's nowhere near a town, unfortunately.
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16:38:33  <Samu> I finally made some progress about prospecting oil rigs while maintaining part of the old behaviour:!794&authkey=!ANXP6eHUDNnQh-M&v=3&ithint=photo%2cpng
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16:39:10  <Samu> the yellow square
16:39:23  <Samu> is the part that does not conform to the original behaviour
16:39:44  <Samu> should fail, but i dunno if that would make sense
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16:44:11  <Samu> what do you think?
16:44:44  <Samu> you prospect an oil rig and it ends on your canal, setting to allow canal on competitor is off, should it pass or fail?
16:45:44  <V453000> give 0 shit
16:45:46  <Alberth> it's a non-issue, canals aren't big enough for oil rigs
16:46:07  <V453000> you can build a fat canal :P
16:46:17  <chillcore> is not wanting an oilrig on my canal a valid answer too?
16:46:54  <V453000> ^
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16:50:10  <Alberth> chillcore: easy, don't build fat canals :p
16:50:34  <chillcore> xD
16:50:44  <planetmaker> I could still build a ship depot there :)
16:51:19  <planetmaker> not sure whether it's actually an issue
16:51:58  <chillcore> usually when I build a canal I have boats coming through too ...
16:52:06  <planetmaker> The question is: if an industry is prospected or even randomly generated: do they build also on player-owned water? If so, then it's a non-issue. If not, then it can be rightfully argued that players shouldn't be allowed either
16:52:08  <chillcore> otherwise it is wasted money ...
16:53:26  <chillcore> planetmaker: for as far as I know prospectined industries do not end up on your terrain?
16:53:44  <chillcore> hmm owner_town ... can they?
16:53:44  <frosch123> correct
16:53:58  <frosch123> industries with random locations do not clear player property
16:54:11  <chillcore> thank you for comfirming frosch
16:54:20  <chillcore> funding is another storie
16:54:23  <frosch123> funded industries where the player picks the location can be placed on the land of the funder
16:54:28  <chillcore> story*
16:54:36  <planetmaker> chillcore, I would suspect, but I'd not bet on it. Water is water and it would be built possibly
16:54:49  <planetmaker> and owned land is different; that definitely is not used
16:54:54  <chillcore> that I have tested yes frosch
16:55:02  <planetmaker> so indeed, maybe canals should be forbidden to be built upon
16:55:10  <planetmaker> by other people than the actual owner
16:55:11  <chillcore> planetmaker canals are lpayer owned untill bankrupty
16:55:24  <chillcore> player*
16:55:26  <planetmaker> yup. like roads
16:55:36  <chillcore> so non issue really
16:55:37  <planetmaker> can I build a road stop on your road?
16:55:47  <chillcore> if I allow you to yes
16:55:57  <chillcore> I have no prob with that
16:56:10  <chillcore> if you try to block me raodvehicles clip
16:56:22  <planetmaker> :)
16:56:27  <chillcore> xD
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16:57:11  <Samu_> bah my internet
16:57:17  <Samu_> i missed the answers
16:57:22  *** Samu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:57:31  <chillcore> hmm ...
16:59:31  <LordAro> @logs
16:59:31  <DorpsGek> LordAro:
16:59:34  <LordAro> Samu_: ^
16:59:49  <Samu_> oh, thanks
17:00:05  <LordAro> (hey all)
17:00:21  <chillcore> o/ LordAro
17:02:24  <Samu_> i changed this part for the prospecting /* Prospected industries not built on water are built as OWNER_TOWN to not e.g. be build on owned land of the founder */
17:02:48  <Samu_> Owner prospector = OWNER_TOWN;
17:02:57  <Samu_> if ((indspec->behaviour & INDUSTRYBEH_BUILT_ONWATER) && _current_company < MAX_COMPANIES) prospector = _current_company;
17:03:07  <Samu_> Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, prospector, FILE_LINE);
17:03:14  <Samu_> should be sufficient I think
17:03:16  <Alberth> Samu_: use a paste bin
17:03:22  <Samu_> ok ok
17:03:42  <chillcore> samu: prospected industries should never end up on anyones owned land/water, not even your own
17:04:08  <chillcore> if you want an industry on your land/water ... fund one
17:04:26  <Samu_>
17:04:53  <Samu_> line 44 to 47 is changed
17:05:12  <Samu_> then at some other part of the code, I make the decisions based on settings and such
17:06:19  <Samu_> let me get the other part
17:07:50  <Samu_>
17:07:56  <Samu_> line 65 to 73
17:09:51  <Samu_> didn't have to change anything in water_cmd.cpp
17:10:02  <Samu_> as I initially thought I had to
17:10:11  <chillcore> samu: p->x is syntactic sugar for (*p).x
17:10:30  <chillcore> someone reading the logs asked me to pass this to you
17:10:42  <chillcore> in regards of that arrow you asked about yesterday
17:10:52  <chillcore> ;)
17:18:23  <kamnet> LOL wondered when you were going to mention that chillcore
17:18:45  <chillcore> when the time was right kamnet ;)
17:19:09  <chillcore> him posting that code reminded me
17:19:21  <chillcore> as it is the same code when he asked about it
17:19:23  <chillcore> xD
17:19:52  <frosch123> sometime p->x can also be p.operator->()->x
17:20:28  <chillcore> *grumble* pointers *grumble*
17:20:53  <frosch123> i am sure there is some compiler out there, which does not detect infinite syntax recursions involving ->
17:21:05  <chillcore> ah ok
17:21:57  <Alberth> chillcore: the secret of pointers is that you have to differentiate between the pointer object itself, and the object pointed to. If you do that, they are quite easy
17:22:17  <frosch123> struct Boo { Boo& operator->() { return *this; } };
17:22:17  <planetmaker> then and only then :)
17:22:35  <planetmaker> boo! ;)
17:22:54  <chillcore> hehe
17:22:58  <Alberth> fair enough  s/If/Iff/  thus  :)
17:23:09  <chillcore> except when ... grrrr
17:23:18  <soupy> You got your foo and bar mixed up there.  Boofar doesn't quite have the same ring.
17:23:40  <chillcore> but yeah Alberth I know they are not that hard ... it is the exceptions I hate about them
17:23:52  <Alberth> exceptions?  which one?
17:24:11  <chillcore> the ones I did glanced over ...
17:24:16  <chillcore> :P
17:24:24  <chillcore> -did
17:24:32  <frosch123> test.cpp:13:5: error: circular pointer delegation detected :)
17:24:42  <Alberth> hah! :)
17:25:00  <chillcore> those and the others
17:25:09  <frosch123> <- someone has msvc?
17:25:46  <Alberth> you can download it, don't you?  not sure it will do any good as .zip file :p
17:28:04  <chillcore> on one of my other HDDs I have mscvc ... not sure if I want to boot it ... needs plugging in and boting other pc too
17:28:28  <chillcore> +o
17:28:33  <frosch123> i could try borland c 5 or so
17:28:49  <chillcore> I can start it up if you need something tested ...
17:29:01  <chillcore> but ...
17:29:21  <chillcore> let's just say ... I don't like using it
17:30:19  <chillcore> as in ... it does too many things for me
17:31:15  <Alberth> chillcore likes being active :)
17:31:29  <chillcore> ye ... that
17:31:51  <chillcore> you don't learn html by using dreamweaver all the time
17:32:09  <frosch123> Fatal BOO.CPP 9: Out of memory
17:32:34  <frosch123> with borland c++ 3.1 (1992)
17:33:38  *** liq3 [] has quit []
17:34:45  <chillcore> eg this ... int* ipa, ipb, ipc;
17:35:06  <chillcore> does not do what you think it does at first glance
17:35:47  <Alberth> yeah, that's why openttd says to typ "int *ipa"
17:36:03  <chillcore> then all three are pointers?
17:36:10  <Alberth> no
17:36:19  <chillcore> ah ok
17:36:30  <Alberth> but it's more clear that only the first is a pointer
17:36:35  <Samu_> omg i can't believe i found a bug to a patch i submitted to flyspray
17:36:41  <Samu_> grrr why do i suck
17:36:52  <Alberth> too eager to submit a patch?
17:37:48  <chillcore> Alberth: I agree is it mre clear. but that is just the beginning there is more confusing stuffs IIRC
17:37:51  <kamnet> It's only a bug. It's not the end of the world.
17:38:32  <Alberth> chillcore: I never combine pointers and non-pointers, it's too confusing for one line
17:38:34  <Samu_> it throws me an assertion, my own assertion
17:38:46  <Samu_> i am setting canal on river too early :(
17:38:55  <Samu_> easy fix
17:39:14  <chillcore> Alberth: maybe I should copy paste all the pointer bits from the various chapters
17:39:42  <chillcore> does not help the stuff is in four not succesive ones
17:39:51  <chillcore> spelling?
17:40:14  <Alberth> successive   I think
17:40:30  <chillcore> ye I did not look it up ... thank you
17:40:33  <Alberth> take out the in-between chapters :p
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17:42:36  <chillcore> that may be the bast way yes
17:43:17  <kamnet> I seem to remember there was a list of GRFIDs that were reserved by OpenTTD. Anybody remember where this list is at?
17:43:51  <Alberth> newgrf-specs would be my guess
17:44:10  <frosch123> anything starting with FF
17:45:16  <frosch123>
17:46:17  <V453000> lmfao OzTrans reserved 4 ranges XD
17:46:31  <chillcore> lol
17:46:38  <frosch123> i would expect someone else entered them
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17:47:58  <chillcore> V453000: how did he reserve them? first come first serve on bananas
17:48:13  <frosch123> V453000: according to that list andy also has 4 ranges :p
17:48:14  <V453000> well sure, according to that table :P
17:48:23  <frosch123> but i doubt andy would have been as stupid as to enter them
17:48:23  <V453000> k :)
17:48:27  <frosch123> unless for trolling reasons
17:48:37  <chillcore> and if he starts disabling other peeps NewGRF actively peeps will real quick stpo using his
17:49:46  <kamnet> It seems a bit silly, really.
17:51:01  <chillcore> if everyone starts claiming his whole range of initials ... heck he does not even claim that ... he claims CA for cananda
17:51:04  <chillcore> lol
17:51:28  <chillcore> also if we need to go that route ... someone is already using my initials
17:51:49  <V453000> good part is that such people tend to leave the community chillcore  :P
17:52:01  <chillcore> ye thank god
17:52:58  <chillcore> CAxxxxx screw you california?
17:53:03  <chillcore> and others ...
17:53:09  <chillcore> anyhooo
17:53:14  <kamnet> If forever reason something better was to come along, it would be sensible to have a registration system in place where you use a generic GRFID to test your code, but when you're ready to publish you submit your code and are assigned a randomly-generated GRFID that is permanently registered to your project.
17:53:43  <kamnet> *If for whatever reason, even.
17:53:57  <frosch123> yeah, if we grow as fast as ipv4 :)
17:54:12  <chillcore> kamnet you claim four letters
17:54:18  <chillcore> CAOZxxxx
17:54:23  <chillcore> and it ends there
17:54:29  <chillcore> al four count
17:54:41  <chillcore> CAOO is for someone else to claim
17:55:03  <frosch123> i think the world may have a demand of about 5 big newgrf
17:55:11  <chillcore> hehe
17:55:25  <kamnet> Well with OzTrans out of the way I'll make six!
17:55:53  <kamnet> I kid. I honestly care not. If somebody complains about one of my GRFIDs conflicting, I'll just change it.
17:56:04  <frosch123> or in other words: in the beginning of ip adressed, the big companies all had a 1.*.*.* range
17:56:06  <LordAro> what's with "reserving" a whole YYxxxxxx block? they're not likely to make 16777216 grfs...
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17:57:23  <glx> frosch123: and they still have it for most of them
17:57:51  <chillcore> frosch: dynamic NewGRF ids ... sounds cool :P
17:58:06  <kamnet> I'm going to request registering GRFIDs in Egyptian hieroglyphs. :P
17:58:34  <chillcore> or chinese characters
17:58:37  <V453000> XD
17:59:28  <Alberth> just use UUIDs :)
18:01:23  <V453000> I find this hypnotizing
18:02:13  <chillcore> don't even want to spend my time on such stupidity ..; I  tried talking to him ... then there was this test grf ...
18:02:41  <chillcore> still waiting for the results ...
18:02:44  <kamnet> ?
18:02:48  <chillcore> lol I hope he reads this
18:03:09  <chillcore> it is a grf you'll never see kamnet ;)
18:03:16  <chillcore> it did nothing
18:03:21  <chillcore> just testing bananas
18:03:32  <chillcore> and then claiming not knowing how it works
18:03:35  <chillcore> nuff said
18:04:00  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:05:15  *** Samu [] has joined #openttd
18:05:16  <V453000> XD
18:05:37  <chillcore> ^^^
18:05:42  <soupy> So, I have 13 years of web development under my belt, got my teeth into a number of programming languages over time and pick things up quickly.  How difficult really is it to make a NewGRF?
18:05:45  *** Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
18:06:15  <frosch123> soupy:
18:06:17  <Alberth> depends on how difficult you like it :p
18:06:33  <frosch123> soupy: there are plenty of open source newgrfs, so, just look at them
18:06:43  <Alberth> and what you want to achieve too
18:06:48  <kamnet> With NML, for most stuff it's fairly decent.
18:06:50  <frosch123> if you want to do something similar to an existing grf, you may be lucky
18:06:55  <kamnet> With NFO, might be a bit more challenging.
18:07:00  <frosch123> if you want to do something else you may hit a wall :p
18:07:03  <V453000> industry production mechanism is utter bullshit.
18:07:04  <Samu>
18:07:05  <Samu> fixed
18:08:07  <kamnet> My memory sucks. I've learned a lot of NFO just by examining code and then following NewGRF Specs, but one I get busy with work or something else and I'm not actively using it, I forget it all.
18:09:04  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has joined #openttd
18:09:06  <kamnet> Which is why I can turn the town statue into a flag pole, but I can't make a NewGRF that lets users select from a variety of flags, or even generate a flag in 2CC
18:09:10  <Alberth> hi hi Wolf01
18:09:11  <Wolf01> hi hi
18:11:07  <kamnet> Or why I can't manage to figure out how to merge the various Fake Airport releases into one sensible project with everything. :P
18:12:38  *** Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:12:44  <kamnet> Maybe once NML is ready to start creating stations, I'll give it a serious effort
18:13:08  <planetmaker> make a newobject newgrf for the fake airports. easy
18:13:20  <soupy> Oh NFO...  boy that takes me back to the darker days of coding.
18:13:41  <soupy> I'm so thankful for the intelligent ones who have gone before us and created things like NML
18:13:45  <kamnet> Everybody's done beat me to it, planetmaker.
18:13:48  *** chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1002:8400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has quit [Quit: Only mortals are affected by fame and power.]
18:14:04  <kamnet> So I just give them the sprites and tell 'em to have fun!
18:14:23  <planetmaker> err-no-parse. But yeah :P
18:16:02  <kamnet> I think right now the only "must have" project I want to embark on is making a station set that lets you build more convincing fake subways.
18:16:35  *** chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1002:8400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd
18:17:05  <V453000> people just wont give up on the underground idea will they XD
18:17:40  <kamnet> Well that needs to happen, too, but...
18:18:15  <planetmaker> underground is soooo ancient ;)
18:18:26  <LordAro> ^^
18:18:26  <kamnet> Stations with city buildings and parking lots and big stadiums above them.
18:18:40  <V453000> nice! I thought exactly of that screenshot pm XD
18:19:13  <LordAro> haven't seen smatz around in a while
18:19:17  <planetmaker> they're definitely older than the 2008 file date :)
18:19:20  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:19:34  <planetmaker> or maybe not? Dunno
18:19:53  <frosch123> i would guess november 2007
18:20:46  <kamnet> I def have way more ideas than I have time or energy to carry out
18:20:48  <planetmaker> hm, so as ancient as my OpenTTD times :)
18:22:03  <V453000> hmmmmmmmmmmm
18:22:17  <frosch123> [Mi Sep 12 2007] [16:36:30] <SmatZ>        http://.../ttd/tunnel.ogg tunnels :)
18:22:22  <V453000> I just wanted to say something intelligent like "you fucking fossils" and then I realized that I am around since 2009 ._.
18:24:04  <Samu> i'm getting this message when i am editing one of my posts in the forum You can no longer edit or delete that post.
18:24:08  <Samu> why
18:24:41  <LordAro> V453000: 2009 high five
18:24:50  <V453000> =D
18:24:54  <chillcore> you has 7 days to edit except for the first post samu
18:24:54  <LordAro> :D
18:25:17  <Samu> :(
18:25:22  <Samu> ok, new post then
18:25:23  <kamnet> You can thank OzTrans for that, too.
18:25:23  <V453000> man look at these fossils
18:25:23  <LordAro> chillcore: ah, the oztrans incident
18:25:27  <chillcore> come to think of it ... same dude ... grrr
18:25:28  <chillcore> ye
18:25:32  <V453000> XD
18:25:33  <LordAro> ^^
18:25:33  <V453000> XD
18:25:34  <V453000> XD
18:26:05  <chillcore> anyhoo after 7 days I have little to edit so  ...
18:26:16  <chillcore> would benice however if it was three posts
18:26:38  <LordAro> i believe that's been mentioned before
18:26:49  <LordAro> not sure how flexible phpbb is with such things though
18:26:54  <LordAro> at a guess, i'd say "not very"
18:27:08  <chillcore> ye I mentioned it  ;)
18:27:30  *** roidal [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1]
18:27:46  <chillcore> because  the frist three posts of my patchpack thread are instructions
18:28:02  <planetmaker> put all instructions in one posting. No reason not to :)
18:28:14  <planetmaker> If you need more images, attach them in subsequent ones, but link them in the first
18:28:28  <planetmaker> attach new versions of images in new(er) postings and amend the links accordingly
18:28:34  <planetmaker> No need to edit more than first posting
18:28:44  <chillcore> haha I asked for the first pst to be split in three ... frosch was kind enough to copy paste the first one twice
18:28:47  <planetmaker> My forum signature is attached to my very first posting :)
18:29:02  <chillcore> could ask to undo but it is fine really
18:29:18  <chillcore> any continuation will be a new patchpack and thread so
18:29:26  <frosch123> chillcore: huh?
18:29:46  <chillcore> you forgot ... that is fine
18:30:02  <frosch123> i am no moderator at forums
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18:30:13  <andythenorth> I reserved ranges? :o
18:30:15  <andythenorth> wtf? :P
18:30:27  <V453000> XD
18:30:45  <chillcore> hmm then who did? ... nvm and my apologies frosch
18:30:53  <andythenorth> I can’t even edit the wiki
18:30:57  <andythenorth> to remove that crap
18:31:03  <V453000> =D
18:31:20  <chillcore> frosch: I really thought it was you ... :blush:
18:31:25  <andythenorth> seriously there are not going to be 255 grfids used by FISH
18:31:28  <andythenorth> or CHIPS
18:31:35  <andythenorth> HEQS is dead, so eh
18:31:38  <V453000> frosch is behind everything
18:31:47  <chillcore> xD
18:32:28  <andythenorth> maybe I accidentally ‘reserved’ ranges by changing grfid, back when we used to do that
18:32:52  <andythenorth> can someone bin those from the wiki?
18:32:55  <frosch123> V453000: it's not my fault, if my unicorns chase you in the dark
18:33:00  <chillcore> maybe it was Y*xo ...
18:33:18  <chillcore> I always mix you two up ... don't ask me why
18:33:25  <V453000> XD
18:33:27  <frosch123> we are both tall
18:33:32  <frosch123> i am more fat than yexo
18:33:45  * andythenorth has such different pictures of people
18:33:47  <chillcore> If you  say so ;)
18:34:02  <andythenorth> we are all short in my imagination, except Eddi
18:34:13  <V453000> Eddi is the shortest
18:38:21  <LordAro> when's the r30k party? :p
18:39:28  * andythenorth wonders what this code is actually doing
18:39:32  <frosch123> LordAro: question is rather, will there really be a forum party in utrecht :p
18:39:56  <andythenorth>
18:40:08  <LordAro> frosch123: oh yeah, that was going to be a thing, wasn't it
18:40:23  * andythenorth tries to draw those tile checks on a grid
18:40:29  <andythenorth> they make no sense
18:41:01  <andythenorth> if they were only checked for the N tile they would make sense
18:41:16  <andythenorth> hmm, maybe they are
18:41:31  <planetmaker> question also: when will there be the forum party in utrecht?
18:41:51  <chillcore> party ... yay
18:43:04  * andythenorth thinks that tile check is overkill
18:43:28  <planetmaker> andythenorth, not for a water mill :)
18:45:23  <V453000> lol 20% on each date
18:46:00  <michi_cc> frosch123: JFTR msvc does: "error C2818: application of overloaded 'operator ->' is recursive through type 'Boo'"
18:46:30  <frosch123> :)
18:46:36  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ? o_O
18:46:51  <planetmaker> thinking of a water-powered grain mill :)
18:46:55  <planetmaker> or the gas station
18:47:06  <planetmaker> not sure though. Could all be done in the location check, I guess
18:48:34  <andythenorth> can you read it?
18:48:40  <andythenorth> is it checking specifically the north tile?
18:48:54  <andythenorth> it’s accessing unnamed vars by number that I can’t be bothered to look up :P
18:49:36  <Samu> is this good english? STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL_HELPTEXT           :Allow construction of docks and locks on canals owned by other companies. Also allows water based industries such as Oil Rigs to be funded or prospected on canals owned by other companies.
18:49:45  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
18:49:47  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
18:49:47  <TrueBrain> E_TOO_LONG_DIDNT_READ
18:49:54  <Samu> :(
18:50:50  <Xaroth|Work> is that an alias for E_OUT_OF_FUCKS_TO_GIVE ?
18:51:03  <LordAro> Samu: it's helptext, that's fine
18:51:06  <LordAro> probably
18:51:20  <LordAro> it's perfectly good english though
18:51:31  <Samu> ty
18:51:42  <Samu> allow or allows?
18:52:14  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you mean the layout check for the petrol station?
18:52:15  <LordAro> doesn't really matter, i guess "allows" would be better though
18:52:21  <andythenorth> planetmaker: yup
18:52:27  <V453000> XD
18:52:27  <Samu> ok, fixing
18:52:33  <V453000> I like E_OUT_OF_FUCKS_TO_GIVE :D
18:53:27  <planetmaker> what's difficult about it? It simply checks the presence of a road tile somewhere adjacent to the industry - depending on layout... I'm sure I once knew what tile they referred to exactly :)
18:53:45  <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_BUILD_ON_COMPETITOR_CANAL_HELPTEXT           :Allows construction of docks and locks on canals owned by other companies. Also allows water based industries such as Oil Rigs to be funded or prospected on canals owned by other companies.
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18:54:32  <andythenorth> planetmaker: relative to which tile? (eh don’t bother working it out, I’m fairly certain it’s reading the N tile of industry out of the cb)
18:54:34  <LordAro> V453000: needs more T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM
18:54:40  <Wolf01> pffft I want to play diablo... patching :E
18:54:43  <V453000> what the shit
18:54:55  <LordAro> V453000: php, obvs
18:54:59  <Wolf01> ahaha that PHP weird :: error
18:55:03  <V453000> NOT OBVS
18:56:07  <planetmaker> if not specified, to the Northern most, yes
18:56:11  <planetmaker> of the layout
18:56:27  <planetmaker> that's a good bet with OpenTTD :)
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18:58:11  <Rubidium> planetmaker: "luckily" last weekend dropped two possible dates for me from the possible dates for a meet; now I can only participate on the dates with a 2.
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18:59:58  <soupy> So, can someone explain to me the reason for planes being so slow by default.  "No, OpenTTD, that plane is not flying at 320km/h".
19:00:05  <planetmaker> Rubidium, yes. But I'd have hoped that orudge meanwhile would have set a date. The June and July dates approach really quickly and more and more people will make plans, thus participation will probably get scarcer the longer a date setting is delayed
19:00:14  <LordAro> soupy: planes too OP pls nerf
19:00:23  <LordAro> hence, 1/4 speed
19:00:55  <chillcore> ^^^ settings gui
19:01:11  <soupy> Well, I figured that out, but they are still expensive to buy and run, that should be enough of a gate to using them by itself.
19:01:33  <Alberth> soupy: on large maps (> 256x256) they are too profitable
19:01:57  <Alberth> they were never tuned down to compensate for the larger distances
19:02:12  <Samu> enable breakdowns
19:02:15  <Samu> problem solv
19:02:55  <LordAro> pfft, no one does that
19:03:03  <soupy> I don't like changing gameplay options to make things easier generally... however the AV8 NewGRF recommends turning the speed up, and if they think I should....
19:03:38  <LordAro> soupy: you are free to do whatever you want, of course, but make a plane route from one corner of the map to the other and see what happens..
19:04:36  <Samu> i tried that on a 4096x4096
19:04:42  <Samu> took 3 years
19:05:05  <soupy> Right.  I totally get that... but I would love to be able to drop-ship farming supplies to a few locations with a helicopter, but right now it isn't at all feasible.
19:05:16  <LordAro> Samu: ha
19:05:24  <LordAro> Samu: how much money did you get at the end of it?
19:05:34  <Samu> dont remember, i can try it again
19:05:54  <chillcore> haha I tried that on 32k * 64 ... E_too_long_to_wait
19:06:02  <chillcore> XD
19:06:06  <Samu> what aircraft do you want me to test?
19:06:11  <Samu> breakdowns on, off?
19:06:13  <Samu> speed?
19:06:30  <soupy> I guess I never figured it with the payment bonuses for speed.  I'd be willing to forego payment completely if it meant having usable aircraft.
19:06:31  <LordAro> try default settings
19:06:59  <soupy> I'll probably change the settings anyway.
19:07:10  <Samu> default settings has inflation
19:07:51  <chillcore> soupy: in the end it is your game, but you'll be drowning in money very fast
19:08:30  <chillcore> just have fun is all that matters
19:08:33  <soupy> Ugh.  Life is HARD.
19:09:07  <Samu> reduced breakdowns for default settings hmm
19:12:37  <chillcore> not good?
19:12:49  <Samu> generating world zzzz
19:13:01  <Alberth> use a less large world
19:13:13  <Alberth> you're not going to fill it anyway
19:13:19  <Samu> ok, generating 20480 industries
19:13:26  <chillcore> download more RAM :P
19:13:35  <Alberth> 3D print it :p
19:13:41  <chillcore> or less industreis
19:13:48  <chillcore> that would be cool Alberth
19:13:57  <chillcore> reminds me of this ...
19:14:03  <chillcore> 1 sec
19:14:16  <Alberth> yeah, puttng the chip manufacturers out of business :p
19:14:17  <andythenorth> given that LSF_ONLY_ON_FLAT_LAND is set, what’s wrong with this picture? o_O
19:14:53  <chillcore> Alberth:
19:15:23  <Samu> i bet default settings use 1 industry per town thing... it's slowing down
19:15:31  <chillcore> but the end is really interesting ... plans for working phone o_O
19:16:11  <Samu> map ready
19:16:50  <andythenorth> hmm
19:16:57  <andythenorth> land_shape_flags failing is a regression
19:17:05  <andythenorth> is it FIRS, nml, or OpenTTD?
19:17:07  <andythenorth> :|
19:18:26  <Samu> coordinates: 49 x 4009 x 2
19:18:36  <planetmaker> andythenorth, are foundations allowed?
19:18:42  <planetmaker> by the industry
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19:19:00  <Samu> coordinates 2: 4034 x 43 x 3
19:19:11  <Samu> aircraft is a Coleman Count
19:19:36  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
19:19:40  * andythenorth looks
19:20:41  <Samu> lol, so slow even with fast forward
19:20:41  <andythenorth> I thought land_shape_flags handled that? o_O
19:21:14  <LordAro> Samu: you didn't cheat yourself money or change the year?
19:21:21  <Samu> nop
19:21:28  <LordAro> :<
19:21:54  <planetmaker> hm... yeah... no clue currently
19:22:17  <andythenorth> I read this as ‘cannot build on slopes’
19:22:43  <andythenorth> my nml has ‘land_shape_flags: bitmask(LSF_ONLY_ON_FLAT_LAND);'
19:23:23  <planetmaker> yes, I see that in the code. Can you try to set also additionally the other LSF_CANNOT_LOWER_XXX ?
19:23:48  <planetmaker> and I recall some industry (tile?) flag to allow foundations or not. But I don't find it
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19:25:09  <andythenorth> there is one to draw foundations or not
19:25:13  <andythenorth> different case
19:25:27  <planetmaker> ah, there is a callback to (dis)allow foundations. Generally disallow them for them then
19:25:36  <planetmaker> for the tiles
19:25:51  <planetmaker> and /or disallow autoslope
19:25:55  <planetmaker> especially the latter
19:26:12  * andythenorth wonders if this is a new or old bug in FIRS
19:26:30  <Alberth> new
19:26:38  <Alberth> you didn't discover it earlier
19:26:49  <andythenorth> bah :)
19:26:53  <TrueBrain> :D:D
19:26:56  <TrueBrain> *epic win*
19:27:10  <chillcore> also ... is the terrain flat enough for it to be able to terraform the surrounding tiles?
19:27:17  <chillcore> not sure if it is related ...
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19:27:45  <chillcore> Alberth: nice one
19:30:48  <Samu> aircraft is 3 years old atm, still didn't complete its journey
19:31:33  * andythenorth wonders if the location checks over-ride land_shape_flags
19:31:39  <soupy> Samu, what's the cargo?
19:31:43  <Samu> 65/8
19:32:26  <Samu> breakdown since nearly the beginning
19:32:37  <Samu> poor aircraft
19:34:28  <chillcore> andythenorth: what location specific stuffs have you set? what industire? have ou tried building it manually on a flat peice of land?
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19:34:38  <chillcore> spelling*
19:34:58  <chillcore> also MHL does some checking yes
19:35:08  <andythenorth> it’s a new regression in FIRS
19:35:14  <soupy>
19:35:15  <chillcore> ok
19:35:16  <andythenorth> I’ve compared it to the last tag
19:35:22  <soupy> The curve-to-linear graph is pretty cool.
19:35:35  <Samu> that patch with lifetime profit, when will it be in the real game? that's so handy now
19:35:37  <soupy> Second from the bottom
19:35:48  <andythenorth> balls, now I have to build full FIRS to see what the code looks like in the tag
19:35:49  <andythenorth> I hate this
19:35:55  <andythenorth> takes bloody ages
19:39:27  <andythenorth> hmm
19:39:29  <chillcore> soupy: yes ... after a certain distance value stops dropping
19:39:32  <andythenorth> industry tile action 0
19:39:43  <chillcore> money printers ...
19:40:04  <chillcore> aircraft are too easy because of that
19:40:19  <chillcore> not just that but yeah
19:40:19  * andythenorth has a default property block for the industry tile, and ‘if’ blocks declaring parameter-specific properties
19:40:29  <Samu> 4 years old, zzz i dont recall taking this much time
19:40:39  * andythenorth wonders whether the ‘if’ blocks overwrite the default block for tiles
19:40:44  <andythenorth> doesn’t happen for industries
19:42:41  <Samu> aha, i see it on the minimap
19:42:45  <Samu> it's approaching airport
19:43:34  <andythenorth> ho new code is missing a slope check
19:43:39  <andythenorth> so land_shape_flags are nonsense
19:43:50  <andythenorth> zero effect
19:45:14  <andythenorth> if the cb is running
19:45:16  <Samu> Income: £30,095
19:45:38  <Samu> timetable says it travelled for 23 days, I don't trust that
19:45:52  <Samu> aircraft is 5 years old
19:46:12  <soupy> wat
19:46:39  <planetmaker> andythenorth, I think the location checks do override landshape flags
19:46:43  <andythenorth> yup
19:46:44  <andythenorth>
19:46:54  <andythenorth> nml docs don’t mention it afaict
19:47:00  <andythenorth> I can’t edit them though
19:47:24  <andythenorth> hmm, maybe I should register andythenorth2 on the wiki
19:47:28  <andythenorth> “I can’t edit” is lame
19:47:50  <Samu> took 5 years to get £30,095, in my opinion it's not worth it
19:47:56  <planetmaker> why can't you edit it?
19:48:17  <andythenorth> can’t log in
19:48:26  <andythenorth> my account is unified with forums, I used to be able to get in
19:48:27  <planetmaker> eh? same as newgrf wiki?
19:48:29  <andythenorth> then one day I couldn't
19:48:43  <planetmaker> strange
19:48:51  <andythenorth> it’s newgrf wiki I can’t get into
19:49:09  <andythenorth> ottd wiki I am in
19:49:36  <andythenorth> I changed my forums pwd some time ago
19:49:39  <andythenorth> more secure :P
19:49:44  <andythenorth> I think it relates to that
19:49:56  <andythenorth> probably it’s rare that any of us rotate pwds
19:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> rotating passwords is a terrible idea, anyway
19:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> with most people, it means that the passwords get simpler, and thus less secure against brute force attacks
19:51:32  <planetmaker> " The land/water check is disabled for this tile so it can be built on water. If you need more control over this use callback 0x2F. " from industry's location check. But yes, that's not clear enough
19:52:44  <andythenorth> ha, my previous auth creds were pretty likely compromised by at least one of the major services that have been compromised :)
19:52:55  <andythenorth> I had years of same id/pwd combo
19:53:10  <andythenorth> until that was fixed :P
19:53:14  <Eddi|zuHause> well, sure. you need to have a (even slightly) different password for each website
19:53:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and probably a password manager
19:53:51  <andythenorth> all of that :)
19:54:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and make sure that nobody gets physical access to your computer
19:54:33  <chillcore> passsword manager ... sounds secure ... only one passwordto crack
19:54:39  <chillcore> anyhoo
19:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: sure, but one that is less commonly accessed than some random corporation's storage
19:55:26  <chillcore> true true
19:55:38  <planetmaker> chillcore, yes, one. But that one then can be pretty good one :)
19:55:52  <chillcore> indeed
19:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: also, a password on a sticky note is more secure than people think
19:56:30  <chillcore> I have different ones even for my HDDs ...and indeed I have a piece of paper just in case
19:56:33  * planetmaker uses a password DB, too
19:56:37  <chillcore> nowhere near my pc though
19:56:45  <Eddi|zuHause> because people that want your password don't overlap with the people that break into your house/office that much
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19:56:57  <chillcore> huhu
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19:57:39  <chillcore> I saw PCs with passwrds stickied to them ... in plain view for all to see
19:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that is, unless you need the password to hide things from your wife/kids/boss/...
19:57:44  <chillcore> multiple of them
19:57:51  <chillcore> hehe
19:59:02  <Eddi|zuHause> there are also systems where you can have two passwords, one to access the data, and one to access a fake set of data
19:59:38  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
20:00:06  <planetmaker> that's what truecrypt could do
20:00:48  <planetmaker> point is, you need to regularily refresh the fake data, too. Or you cannot credibly argue that they're real data when the last timestamp is months old and you use your machine daily
20:01:18  <chillcore> I've heard of setups that erase the disk upon entering the wrong password
20:01:30  <chillcore> does not help against those that know whatto do but yeah
20:01:41  <chillcore> 'those' are few
20:02:15  <planetmaker> it's an excellent DOS attack, though :)
20:02:32  <chillcore> hehe
20:03:09  <chillcore> only peeps that have real things to hide do that ... I know of nobody IRL
20:03:38  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
20:03:47  <planetmaker> which is a difference to you know nobody who does ;)
20:04:03  <chillcore> hehe ye
20:04:47  <chillcore> I saw an interview with someone who had that ... that is not IRL is it?
20:05:04  <chillcore> this channel confuse me so often :P
20:05:07  <Samu_> hey, i have a suggestion
20:05:19  <Samu_> when max station spread is a low value
20:05:27  <Samu_> disable airports
20:05:31  <Samu_> those which can't be placed
20:05:44  <chillcore> makes me think real hard and me likes
20:07:27  <chillcore> samu: ye people are jumping up and down for frustrating mechanics all the time ... good idea
20:10:38  <Eddi|zuHause> if they had something to hide, they'd have done a terrible job of it if you knew about it.
20:10:59  <chillcore> also true
20:11:00  <frosch123> noone knows about the unicorns in my garage
20:11:15  <frosch123> at least noone believes me :p
20:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a good defense tactic
20:11:35  <planetmaker> frosch123, except the animal rights union or so. Await the protesters for not treating them for how they're supposed to be treated ;)
20:11:36  <frosch123> though, V maybe
20:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> make your secret open, but so obscure, that nobody thinks it's true
20:12:01  <chillcore> ^^^
20:12:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why NSA and Co. regularly put people into "conspiracy" groups, to distract from their actual wrongdoings
20:13:25  <Eddi|zuHause> as long as the world things, conspiracy theorists are total nutjobs, it doesn't matter how close they actually are to the truth
20:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause> *thinks
20:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> must be my saxon heritage :p
20:14:24  <frosch123> how do you mean? they are definitely nutjobs
20:14:33  <frosch123> even if they are right
20:14:46  * andythenorth thinks bedtime
20:14:59  <andythenorth> but yeah
20:15:07  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it doesn't matter either way
20:15:23  <andythenorth> the conspiracy is there, it’s just not the one the conspiracy people think it is
20:15:31  <andythenorth> bye
20:15:32  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
20:16:26  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- about conspiracy theories, that eventually turned about to be true [german]
20:18:06  <planetmaker> alternativlos... one of the worst words of the decade
20:18:52  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's called irony :)
20:21:08  <chillcore> there are more then a few case yeah where things turned out to be true
20:21:27  <chillcore> sometimes worse then the theory itself
20:23:19  * chillcore foods
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20:27:47  <Elukka> hey
20:28:53  <planetmaker> Rubidium, frosch123 TrueBrain any chance to update the download link for OpenGFX to OpenGFX 0.5.1-RC1?
20:29:15  <planetmaker> or teach me how to do that myself :)
20:29:40  <chillcore> and include tgen light please so peeps can have playable maps?
20:29:43  <frosch123> i have no idea, but we also need anew release :)
20:30:04  <TrueBrain> finger decides what is on the frontpage as download link
20:30:12  <TrueBrain> but we normalyl dont put RCs there for these packages
20:30:17  <TrueBrain> can I suggest first making it non-RC?
20:32:14  <planetmaker> frosch123, agreed
20:32:27  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, it's the only current release and every 1.5.0 user will need it
20:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but the point of an RC is to let it settle a bit before distributing it to everybody?
20:34:54  <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to skip that and distribute it anyway, just call it not-RC in the first place?
20:34:58  <planetmaker> it settled for two 6 weeks
20:36:36  <Eddi|zuHause> so what prevents it from being called not-RC then?
20:36:49  <planetmaker> broken packaging
20:37:00  <planetmaker> mostly of NML
20:37:26  <frosch123> well, there are equally many questions about zbase :p
20:37:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand
20:37:59  <planetmaker> indeed. But zBase is not the default people get via installer. Thus OpenGFX is worse
20:39:31  *** zeknurn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:39:36  <Elukka> i got the ottd itch again and i'm updating my grfs
20:39:46  <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly changed in the packaging process that prevents the exact same thing that became RC1 to become not-RC, with just the name changed
20:40:27  <Elukka> i'm still using long vehicles... which is a fine set, but i'm wondering if there are newer sets that have similarly higher capacities than default to give road vehicles more of a niche?
20:40:30  <planetmaker> RC1 failed packaging, too, Eddi|zuHause :)
20:40:31  <Elukka> plus maybe trams
20:40:50  <planetmaker> it only builds from the repos. Not from source tar balls
20:41:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so then i still don't understand... why insist on distributing it before changing the name?
20:45:40  *** heffer [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:47:30  <chillcore> )mpÃ
20:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> gesundheit.
20:47:56  <chillcore> hmm woopise ... was cleaning grease of keys :P
20:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause> unplug it first :p
20:48:27  <chillcore> sensitive keyboard
20:48:40  <chillcore> good idea that
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20:59:07  <DanMacK> Let me guess... 5 minutes?
20:59:19  <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
20:59:19  <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 43 minutes and 48 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bye
20:59:38  *** DanMacK [] has quit []
21:01:00  <frosch123> rage quit :p
21:01:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i find this truly amazing :p
21:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause> it's been going on like this for years now :p
21:02:52  <TrueBrain> and when they finally are online at the same time
21:02:54  <TrueBrain> he says: hi
21:02:55  <TrueBrain> and runs
21:03:38  <chillcore> sometimes it feels like they are Jeckle and Hyde xD
21:04:17  <chillcore> Jekyll*
21:04:56  <Eddi|zuHause> why is there no Jekyll Park in london?
21:05:09  <Supercheese> well, their collaborative grfs are amazing, so they are evidently doing something right
21:05:58  *** Klanticus [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but maybe they should switch to email or forum-pm :p
21:06:35  <Eddi|zuHause> or actually PLAN meatings ahead of time :p
21:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> [Donnerstag, 23. Dezember 2010] [21:46:16] <andythenorth>       @seen Danmack <-- that seems to be the beginning of the drama
21:11:08  <TrueBrain> I know a solution for it, if you like?
21:11:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think what _I_ like matters at all here :p
21:11:43  <TrueBrain> I disagree
21:11:48  <TrueBrain> but that might be what _I_ think :D
21:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause> do you think what i'm thinking? :p
21:15:11  <TrueBrain> depends ... do you think about fluffy unicorns?
21:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause> are you confusing me with someone else? :p
21:18:15  *** kopoba [] has joined #openttd
21:18:22  <TrueBrain> cats? :D
21:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that is way more likely :p
21:19:03  <kopoba> is this right place?
21:19:42  <TrueBrain> *makes a fire*
21:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> kopoba: you can make a clickable link with "irc://..."?
21:19:48  <TrueBrain> *starts to sing Kumbaya*
21:20:11  <kopoba> Eddi|zuHause it leads here but i was thinking there is russian channel
21:20:47  <Eddi|zuHause> well, this is the international channel. i don't know if there is a russian channel
21:20:59  <kopoba> i see >English only
21:21:03  <kopoba> in topic
21:21:10  <TrueBrain> English is such a better language *Trolls*
21:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but almost nobody here is english :p
21:21:42  <glx> the wiki should precise the language
21:21:48  <TrueBrain> nobody cares about the english people :D
21:22:09  <kopoba> ok is there any way to upgrade all infrastructere from rails to monorails. I can replace all rails but stuck with replacing trains =(
21:22:43  <Eddi|zuHause> kopoba: there is a "universal railtype" GRF that helps with replacing the trains
21:23:37  <kopoba> Eddi|zuHause no way to do that without that grf?
21:23:49  <Supercheese> sadly not
21:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause> no, without that, you're bound to manual replacement
21:24:30  <kopoba> then i dont understand why there is replacing tool
21:24:36  <kopoba> for rails
21:25:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the replacement tool for rails was introduced with elrails
21:25:27  <chillcore> for trains of a different type you need a diiferent depot
21:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> so the primary task was electrifying rail
21:25:39  <chillcore> you can buy new there and copy orders
21:26:48  <kopoba> chillcore its pain when you have 100+ different trains and they have different orders
21:26:57  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, in most cases when you upgrade from rail to monorail, you probably do not need a 1:1 replacement of trains. since they are larger and faster, you need fewer of them
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21:27:07  <chillcore> huhu that is why I always have groups too ;)
21:27:22  <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: you can easily have 100 groups :p
21:27:47  <chillcore> Eddi|zuHause: indeed
21:29:44  <kopoba> chillcore you make groupe for each pair of station?
21:29:59  <chillcore> for each route
21:30:05  <kopoba> ye
21:30:15  <chillcore> my routes almost never have just two stations
21:30:29  <chillcore> but yeah one group per route
21:31:02  <chillcore> then I copy one vehicle's orders and ctrl-clone the others
21:31:22  <kopoba> how ctrl-clone works?
21:31:55  <chillcore> if you hold ctrl you clone the vehicle including the orders
21:32:52  <planetmaker> g'night
21:33:00  <chillcore> good night planetmaker
21:33:42  <kopoba> chillcore can i make clone button hold in ON position while cloning?
21:34:42  <kopoba> its hard and clone buttone clone with orders
21:34:52  <kopoba> why you need to hold ctrl?
21:35:42  <chillcore> for cloning a vehicle ... not the orders
21:35:43  <Supercheese> you don't really need to, it is an option
21:35:56  <chillcore> ^^^
21:36:00  <Supercheese> regular clone still clones the orders
21:36:06  <Supercheese> ctrl just also makes them shared orders
21:37:20  <kopoba> Supercheese first time hear about shared orders
21:37:30  <kopoba> where can i read abot that?
21:37:48  <Supercheese>
21:37:53  <Supercheese> the wiki contains a wealth of information
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21:44:28  <Supercheese> Ugh, want to work on my airports patch but I feel like crap :(
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21:49:00  <kamnet> Suck it up, bucko! Drink your binkbaloba and your red bull and get crackin!
21:49:28  <Supercheese> bleeeh red bull is awful
21:49:42  <Supercheese> 'sides I have enough coffee that caffeine is covered
21:56:02  <kopoba> chillcore on what server you play?
21:57:23  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:58:17  <Samu> I'm getting lost with all these patches
22:02:15  <Samu> when i find a bug in one, i have to go back to the others to fix them, this sucks
22:02:35  <Samu> canal on river forces me to fix 3 other patches or so~
22:02:40  <Samu> annoying
22:03:52  <Samu> honestly, I don't feel like fixing the other patches
22:04:06  <Samu> I'm not focusing on them
22:04:18  <Samu> i build upon them
22:06:15  <Samu> i dont know how to version these things
22:06:35  <Samu> hep
22:07:09  <Samu> any suggestions?
22:07:15  <Samu> I'm getting overwhelmed
22:07:33  <FLHerne> A nice git repo with branches might help, if you don't already have that
22:07:49  <Samu> a gir repo?
22:07:54  <Samu> git
22:07:58  <FLHerne> And have features that don't depend on each other in separate branches
22:08:01  <Supercheese> Oh lord, git/hg is horribly confusing
22:08:14  <Supercheese> I would not recommend it unless you're forced to (e.g. ottdcoop devzone)
22:08:30  <FLHerne> Supercheese: I did think that, but once I realised how git works it's wonderfull and perfect :D
22:08:39  <Supercheese> I still have yet to wrap my brain around it
22:08:57  <Supercheese> svn is the only vcs that makes sense to me
22:09:08  <Samu> svn?
22:09:14  <Supercheese>
22:09:27  <FLHerne> svn is terrible for anything with branches though
22:09:38  <Supercheese> but it's nice and simple
22:09:43  <Supercheese> very entry-level
22:09:46  <FLHerne> And dead-simple branching and merging is incredibly useful
22:10:19  <FLHerne> But simplicity can make things harder to use, if they don't do the right things
22:10:20  <Supercheese> I have to go back and read the manual every time I revisit projects on the devzone
22:10:44  <FLHerne> Supercheese: Try 'git help' ;-)
22:10:51  <Supercheese> Well, devzone uses hg
22:11:09  <FLHerne> 'hg help' then :P
22:12:55  <Supercheese> in any event, I cannot recommend anything but svn for someone who has no familiarity with vcs
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22:13:17  <Supercheese> although that is just me, of course
22:13:28  <FLHerne> But svn doesn't have branching, and hence doesn't really solve Samu's problem
22:14:09  <Supercheese> Hmm, it's a shame that the recommended solutions for solving issues of too much complexity involve adding yet more layers of complexity ...
22:14:14  *** gnu_jj [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:14:18  <Supercheese> but c'est la vie
22:14:22  <FLHerne> The problem with a purely-linear vcs is that it doesn't do anything about managing collections of unrelated changes
22:15:17  <FLHerne> Being able to split changes into separate lines of development is a slightly steeper learning curve, but makes the actual use a lot simpler
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22:17:18  <FLHerne> So you can have a 'stable tweaks' branch, and a 'make everything yellow' branch, and work on both alternately
22:18:02  <Samu> i have to compile subversion
22:18:19  <Samu> screw it
22:18:48  <FLHerne> Samu: svn is really no fun, go with git :P
22:18:50  <Supercheese> Ugh, why does OGFX+ have climate-dependent previews...
22:18:57  <Supercheese> now I have to add them for the new ports
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22:24:38  <Samu> here's my confusion:
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22:30:02  <Samu> i'm focusing on 2 patches only
22:30:13  <Samu> Canal on River and that big named one
22:31:03  <Samu> Game Setting for Oil Rig, With Better Layout, Dock and Lock on Competitor Canal on Permanent Rivers
22:31:45  <Samu> it is built upon the previous one, with a slightly shorter name
22:31:51  <Eddi|zuHause> <kopoba> chillcore can i make clone button hold in ON position while cloning? <-- use the clone button in the train window, not the one in the depot window
22:32:09  <Samu> Game Setting for Dock and Lock on Competitor Canal on Permanent Rivers
22:32:23  <Samu> this one however is for me, pointless to fix
22:32:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (the clone button in the train window is only visible if the train is inside a depot)
22:33:01  <Samu> i fixed for the new one which also includes the oil rig, i feel kind of a moot point to go back and fix something I don't intend to use anymore
22:33:34  <Samu> all previous variants are thus, bugged
22:34:03  <Samu> do I really have to fix them?
22:41:46  <kopoba> Eddi|zuHause dont see it =(
22:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause> kopoba: in the window named "Train 2" there is on the right a button with two train engines
22:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause> below the eye
22:43:11  <Eddi|zuHause> likewise in "Train 1"
22:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause> also, this is not a .png image
22:44:00  <kopoba> wah wah wah
22:44:05  <kopoba> many thanks
22:44:57  <kopoba> yep its jpeg
22:45:07  <kopoba> hosting convertation =\
22:46:51  <Samu> that's the game I'm in lol
22:50:06  <kopoba> :4
22:50:08  <kopoba> :3
22:50:16  <Eddi|zuHause> :2
22:50:18  <kopoba> Pink is goin to win =)
22:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause> :1
22:50:24  <Eddi|zuHause> ;kabooom
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22:51:00  <Mr_Bones_> so... it looks like is missing files needed to build from source.
22:51:05  <Samu> i made aircraft, my number 3 is carrying mail
22:51:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. building nml is broken
22:51:21  <Samu> and gets more than the passengers/mail ones
22:51:25  <Samu> imba
22:51:30  <Eddi|zuHause> must be built from a source checkout
22:52:07  <Mr_Bones_> are there tags or just head?
22:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be a tag
22:52:33  <Supercheese> why the devil are there even toyland climate previews of OGFX+ airports.....
22:52:39  <Supercheese> why would anyone use the set in toyland
22:53:04  <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone use [...] toyland
22:53:33  <Samu> what are your long term goals with toyland?
22:53:45  <Samu> everybody hates it, i guess
22:54:13  <Supercheese> Mars conversion is a common idea
22:54:28  <Supercheese> or lunar, but that may or may not have been an April fool's joke
22:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but why would you need to replace toyland for that?
22:55:24  <Supercheese> Dunno, but there does exist a Toyland to Mars grf
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22:58:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that may be, but there is still no reason why that would be a good idea
22:58:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the orginal mars was more of a sprite replacement for temperate
22:59:37  <Samu> remove toyland from the game?
22:59:53  <Supercheese> Nah, there's probably somebody who likes it; I know I did as a kid
23:00:01  <Supercheese> it's fun to play when you're seven
23:00:27  <Samu> put on its place one of your current NewGRFs i dunno
23:01:02  <Samu> a mix of NewGRF sets as Toyland
23:01:07  <Samu> just an idea
23:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> back as a kid i found mars to be incredibly heavy on the yes. especially the red water
23:01:25  <Samu> but i dunno
23:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause> mars conversion might be suitible as a base set
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23:50:19  <Samu> i'm looking at this static bool CheckShipLeaveDepot(Ship *v)
23:50:40  <Samu> 		/* Both ways blocked */
23:50:59  <Samu> wondering if this could be improved
23:52:10  <Samu> cause you refused to fix
23:53:29  <Samu> if both ways are blocked, it doesn't necessarily mean the ship is stuck, there could be 2 docks in each exits
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