Log for #openttd on 10th April 2015:
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00:18:18  <soupy> I've become embroiled in seeing how much I can do with only the passenger business.  With horses in 1860.
00:22:15  <kamnet> Supermop: Nah, no reason to code it for restrictions like that. It would dicourage others from making new aircraft sets
00:24:06  <Supercheese> err do you mean me...?
00:25:57  <kamnet> Er, yeah
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00:26:05  <kamnet> to many super grf makers here LULZ
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00:36:53  <Supercheese> heh, well I agree
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01:18:20  <soupy> So, this is just a crazy idea, but would there be any way of modding OTTD to show how much cost, income, and profit is coming from a certain group in the vehicle listing?
01:19:36  <Pikka> yes, there would
01:19:54  <Pikka> I imagine :)
01:21:27  * soupy mumbles something about there being a lot of modders in here that would love a case of beer.
01:21:56  <Supercheese> There may already be a patch
01:22:09  <Supercheese> In fact:
01:22:54  <soupy> And now I'm drooling.
01:24:26  <soupy> I want to know if it would be more cost effective to replace my 18 busses (horses) with a short-haul train... that mod would be awesome.
01:26:49  <soupy> It would sure be a lot easier on my CPU'
01:27:10  <soupy> (As far as large scale operations goes.
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01:29:58  <soupy> I have to say, I'm absolutely loving Cargodist now I've found the map graph thingy.
01:43:53  <Supercheese> What on earth, I save my game, load my save, and the game forgets I had accepted the 1 year preview of a new vehicle...
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02:24:12  <soupy> Gah, that's what bugs me about this game.  2 hours to set up 2 star networks and a train between the hubs for 200k / quarter, or 5 minutes to set up 10 boats to and from fishing grounds for 300k / quarter.
02:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause> or 200 hours for a real train network...
02:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> or 2000 hours to fill a 4048^2 map
02:28:46  <soupy> Whenever I start to really branch out with my rail network, I always get tired of designing intersections with the lowest chance of delays (junctions with speed-up lanes etc.), then I get tired of doing that and don't build anymore.  Even though if I did it with the simplest T junction, it would only have a 1% effect on efficiency.
02:31:12  <Eddi|zuHause> you're probably overthinking it
02:33:13  <soupy> Exactly.  I was pondering that earlier.  I should probably just bang out my lines for startup and then start correcting them as I see major problems, which will be way further down the line for 95% of my long-hauls.
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02:36:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, sometimes you need to have a "good enough" attitude to get anything done at all
02:59:59  <Pikka> fun times
03:01:13  <supermop> nice
03:04:13  <Pikka> the hats could do with some more detail, rather than just being disks. :)
03:04:53  <supermop> will hats have corks on them?
03:05:01  <Pikka> yes
03:05:03  <Pikka> animated corks
03:05:16  <supermop> nothing less will do
03:05:37  <supermop> do people drive utes up there?
03:05:45  <supermop> ittle house should have a ute
03:06:16  <Pikka> definitely utes
03:07:12  <kamnet> utes with hats?
03:09:58  <Pikka>
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03:12:45  <soupy> Man I wish Yeti hadn't given me an <invalid cargo> error yesterday.  Would have liked to have tried it properly but got paranoid that it would screw me over later with some other error.
03:12:54  <TartarusMkII> Hi guys, I've got a question- I notice that in the default version of OpenTTD, some industries are difference sizes, like a coal mine may be larger, or a power plant may have more cooling towers. Is this aesthetic, or does this do something for its growth potential?
03:13:11  <Pikka> purely aesthetic, TartarusMkII
03:13:56  <TartarusMkII> Thankyou Pikka
03:14:09  <TartarusMkII> Is there anything to keep in mind when choosing an industry to work with in the beggining other than distance?
03:15:35  <Pikka> with the default industries? nope.
03:15:50  <TartarusMkII> Okay thanks =D
03:16:53  <soupy> Other than their current production, of course.  Either way, it's pure luck, but if you get decent production increase with a 120 ton coal mine, it's of course going to be better than an 80 ton coal mine.
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03:53:47  <TartarusMkII> I had an accident and now ruined trains are on my tracks- how do I get rid of them?
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03:55:24  <Supercheese> they will disappear on their own shortly
03:55:31  <Supercheese> you must live with them until they do
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04:06:53  <TartarusMkII> damn okay, thanks.
04:15:51  <kamnet> I'm going ekranoplan crazy tonight.
04:16:40  <supermop> haha seems like it
04:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm going crazy at youtube tonight
04:24:23  <Eddi|zuHause> it suddenly decided that the big player mode should have the same size as the small player mode
04:24:51  <kamnet> Most of the ones I'm finding are basically light passenger and cargo transport, but I've found some real interesting ones too
04:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> unless i switch my browser to fullscreen (F11), which only marginally increases the size of the browser
04:25:20  <kamnet> A pair of luxury "superyacht" ekranoplans coming in at a few million dollars each.
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04:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't understand the conditions on which it decides this size
04:25:46  <kamnet> Weird, Eddi
04:29:53  <TartarusMkII> When is a good time to start tackling the loan debt?
04:33:09  <kamnet> I tend to do it when I've got a stable amount of income and I'm not building anything else.
04:34:10  <TartarusMkII> Alrighty.
04:34:36  <TartarusMkII> Right now I have a very strong set up for moving coal to a power plant, but I don't want to invest in the shitty starting train, so I only bought a few, but reserved space to expand the railway.
04:35:04  <TartarusMkII> Then I gave a city nearby a little train system to ferry passengers to a dock, then I made something similar along the coast but with busses, and I have one ferry moving people back and forth
04:35:15  <TartarusMkII> right now I am experimenting with the idea of making things like the ferry wait for a full load
04:35:22  <kamnet> Yeah, if you're still building and have thin profit margins, keep borrowing.
04:36:14  <TartarusMkII> I would prefer to choose something far away ,but if I wanted to make steel for the sake of a factory, and an ore mine is nearby, is trucks just cheaper for carting stuff a short range? Or is rail still.. better(?)
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04:55:00  <TartarusMkII> =o!
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04:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause> TartarusMkII: for short hauls i often use the cargo trams from HEQS
04:58:07  <Eddi|zuHause> TartarusMkII: it might not be the most profitable way, but it is certainly more space efficient
04:59:55  <TartarusMkII> Okay, thanks. Vanilla doesn't have trams, right? So like, vanilla then? X3
05:00:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played vanilla in like 10 years :p
05:00:35  <TartarusMkII> haha I'm just starting out XD
05:00:48  <TartarusMkII> I got trains truckies boaties and planes
05:05:42  <Eddi|zuHause> road vehicles mostly shine in tight spaces like cities, it has less to do with distances
05:09:23  <TartarusMkII> Okay cool
05:18:58  <Eddi|zuHause> although the generally lower speed somewhat has a higher impact on longer distances. and the amortization of rail wagons has a higher impact on higher production levels
05:19:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you only pay maintenance for the train engine, no matter how many wagons it has, while you pay maintenance for each truck
05:24:31  <TartarusMkII> Ah very true
05:32:09  <TartarusMkII> Ah, I'm having quite a problem. I am sending Iron Ore to a station as a transfer, but the Smeltery that is within range of the station is not picking up the iron for itself. should I make it not a transfer, and just drop it for the smeltery to make steel?
05:35:01  <TartarusMkII> Yes, that's it, oka.
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05:45:00  <TartarusMkII> What happens if I tell a train with 4 pieces to dock at a 1 slot (2 piece) station?
05:45:04  <TartarusMkII> to unload?
05:51:18  <kamnet> There are no trams in vanilla OpenTTD. yes you should unload (not transfer) for the local industry to pick up. And what will happen is that your train will unload slower and take a penalty.
05:52:50  <TartarusMkII> Okay thanks!
05:53:26  <TartarusMkII> I got lots of goods from this factory, but I don't know how to best send it to this town I've got my trains in because I could only fit one platform stations there, and don't want a whole new group of engines on that small track just to distribute goods =v
06:05:08  <TartarusMkII> Now the station that delivers to the factory won't acquire the goods from the factory to put on the train sitting there waiting for them =v
06:07:31  <TartarusMkII> oh nvm now it is.. hm.
06:24:38  <Supercheese> stations do not begin receiving cargo until a train that wants it arrives at the station
06:24:48  <Supercheese> by default at least, there is a setting that controls that
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06:35:39  <supermop> tensile roofs are really not great at holding my interest
06:36:01  <supermop> i guess there's a reason I've never cared about these things in real life
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06:41:24  <TartarusMkII> Is there a menu function like the replace menu in vanilla that allows me to replace old vehicles? I don't mean automatically, but I wonder how I am supposed to do this other than ordering ones by hand to go to the depot to do it manually
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06:53:57  <andythenorth> we’re being overwhelmed by falsehood
06:54:13  <TartarusMkII> ?
06:54:26  <Supercheese> TartarusMkII: Yes, there is that option under "Manage Vehicles" the dropdown at the bottom of your vehicle listing
06:54:59  <TartarusMkII> I see, undr manage list, replace, send to depot, and send for maintenance
06:55:01  <Supercheese>
06:55:09  <Supercheese> Replace is what you want eh?
06:55:22  <Supercheese> ooooh no wait
06:55:25  <Supercheese> you wanted renew
06:55:28  <TartarusMkII> Yes but that's automatic, I want to know if there is a menu option to manually replace that is one step further than ordering each truck to go to a depot
06:55:32  <TartarusMkII> yes, renew.
06:55:44  <Supercheese> that is under the Settings menu
06:55:46  <Supercheese>
06:56:17  <Supercheese> open the big settings tree and search for "renew"
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06:57:46  <TartarusMkII> thankyou again
06:58:16  <Supercheese> most welcome :)
07:02:40  <andythenorth> 8 / 66 FIRS industries converted :P
07:02:46  <andythenorth> only 58 to go
07:24:46  <kamnet> overwhelmed by falsehoods, andy?
07:27:17  <andythenorth> truth and veritas both left
07:27:22  <andythenorth> one after the other
07:27:44  <kamnet> I thought it was right?
07:28:16  <kamnet> I've got stats on 32 ekranoplans. Somebody now needs to fix OpenTTD so we can properly use them. :-)
07:30:23  <Supercheese> Veritas fugit?
07:30:37  <Eddi|zuHause> veritas fuck it?
07:30:40  <Supercheese> Ha
07:30:59  <kamnet> That way somebody can spend  million on a 500 km/h Bentley Ares SuperYacht to take 500 of their closest friends to drive 20 tons worth of SUV on exclusive desert islands. :D
07:36:10  <Supercheese> I wonder what sort of license is required to pilot an ekranoplan...
07:36:30  <Supercheese> does the FAA regulate it? They aren't technically aircraft...
07:37:10  <supermop> if its out on open ocean it doesnt need to be regulated?
07:38:07  <Supercheese> well one must dock somewhere...
07:38:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose as long as they don't reach a certain height, they'll be classified as ships?
07:38:26  <andythenorth> probably same as hovercraft
07:38:27  <Supercheese>
07:38:32  <supermop> using paypal to send money to my fiance seems incredibly odd
07:38:35  <Supercheese> they do seem to fall under maritime regulations
07:38:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there are rules for seaplanes that can be applied
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07:39:42  <supermop> should i skip these suspended roof stations? i just cant imagine them turning out interesting enough
07:40:00  <andythenorth> yes
07:40:04  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: we really can't tell you what to do.
07:40:08  <andythenorth> I can
07:40:20  <supermop> precious few real tensile roof structures look anything but forgettably boring
07:40:21  <andythenorth> what else are we hanging out here for?
07:40:51  <supermop> i mean i only come on irc to receive my instructions from andy
07:41:00  <andythenorth> or someone else
07:41:10  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: escaping the sad reality of our so-called "real" life
07:41:24  <supermop> since he refuses to operate a newgrf themed numbers staton
07:41:25  <andythenorth> this is the best escape we can find? o_O
07:42:02  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that the main classification of any hobby?
07:42:45  <supermop> i think i'll shelve them
07:43:02  <supermop> maybe do something with spaceframes instead
07:43:10  <supermop> then maybe some sheds
07:43:56  <Eddi|zuHause> hobby == the life you would lead if you didn't have to rely on a job to get food/shelter
07:45:38  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a reason why the french word "travail" originated in a word meaning "torture" and the german word "Arbeit" originated in a word meaning "slavery"
07:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause> the russian word "robota" has the same origin
07:46:29  <Supercheese> same for Latin "Laboro" and "Labor"
07:46:50  <Supercheese> which even has preserved its dual meaning into English cognates
07:46:53  <supermop> funny that japanese took arbeit to become arubeito which is only a part time, generally menial job
07:47:35  <V453000> why did I read mental job
07:48:20  <andythenorth> what’s the German word for ‘vocation'?
07:48:29  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: maybe they saw that the germans work so much less than everybody else :)
07:48:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what does that mean?
07:49:03  <andythenorth>
07:49:05  <Supercheese> Hmm, whoops, I seem to have triple posted in the OGFX+ airports thread
07:49:35  <andythenorth> hmm
07:49:40  <andythenorth> new word to andythenorth
07:49:45  <andythenorth> oops bad paste
07:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, there's a link on the left that leads you to the german word
07:50:34  <andythenorth> does it mean the same thing in German, or is it strictly the religious sense?
07:50:49  <supermop> i always assumed that trabajo came from traho
07:50:56  <andythenorth> in en-gb, vocation is now the common term for an enjoyable, rewarding profession or craft
07:50:58  <andythenorth> usually
07:51:22  <supermop> so that spanish people assume a job involves dragging something around?
07:52:06  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, german "Berufung" [i'd translate it as "calling"] is mostly used in the religious sense, but can be used outside as well
07:52:34  <Supercheese> Yes, "Vocatio" is Latin for "calling"
07:52:46  <andythenorth> vocation is more usually solely positive in the UK now
07:52:55  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's closely related to german "Beruf", which is generally the job that you learned
07:53:01  <andythenorth> whereas ‘calling’ can be something which isn’t rewarding, but to which duty and capability call you
07:53:16  <andythenorth> vocation would be seen as more rewarding generally
07:53:36  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: i didn't know that i just equated beruf with job and arbeit with work
07:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the version i heard that "travail" [or "trabajo", which is really the same] came from something called "tripole", which is a torture instrument
07:55:18  <andythenorth> cheery
07:55:34  <andythenorth> 9 / 66 done :P
07:55:38  * andythenorth kicking goals here
07:56:04  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: well, "Beruf" means the thing you learned, and "Arbeit" the thing you do. they are usually related, but not necessarily
07:56:33  <supermop> also i obviously never got that far in my german learning despite spending so long at it
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07:59:38  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there are probably always subtle differences in the meaning/context of words that cannot be appropriately translated
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08:04:07  <andythenorth> +1
08:09:39  <supermop> eddi i'd say 'certainly' not probably
08:09:57  <supermop> and differences even from one region to the next
08:11:02  <Supercheese> It may also be nice to add this patch to OGFX+ Airports:
08:11:17  <Supercheese> most of the time the fences clip with the long airship sprites
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08:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause> clipping usually means wrong bounding boxes
08:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> either the bounding boxes are too small, or they overlap, so the game has no chance to determine correctly what should be in front of what
08:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause> the way the game treats conflicting bounding boxes might not be optimal
08:23:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but usually fixes in that area tend to make things worse in other places
08:26:22  <Supercheese> the airships are decidedly too big for their bounding box britches
08:26:45  <Supercheese> there's naught to be done about it really, they must be extra large to look good
08:27:10  <Supercheese> but that patch is desirable for other reasons anyway, like integrating airports in with newobjects
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08:27:38  <Supercheese> the motivation that patch author had was, "I often extend my airports with object tiles, as do many other people, but it looks funny with the fences in in between the "real" airport and the "fake" parts"
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08:27:49  <Supercheese> which is a fair point
08:29:16  <planetmaker> Supercheese, yes. But can you make it a NewGRF parameter to switch it off?
08:29:30  <Supercheese> sure, that was the first edition of the patch
08:29:47  <Supercheese> guess combine both the autofences and the parameter to enable/disable autofencing
08:30:23  <planetmaker> good idea. Autofence, autofence except when station/object adjacent, always fence, no fences. Dunno. something like that
08:30:42  <planetmaker> though I think, that autofencing could get more intelligent with objects. There are many objects where fences still make sense
08:30:50  <planetmaker> but that might be a 2nd step :)
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08:30:54  <andythenorth> autofence is neat
08:31:01  <andythenorth> small things
08:31:20  <andythenorth> btw, if we could autofence industry tiles, FIRS would lose quite a lot of nml code :P
08:31:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: well, "nothing to be done" isn't entirely true. the game could be changed to allow increasing the size of the bounding box
08:31:33  <andythenorth> might even stop hitting the register limits :P
08:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: although bigger bounding box makes it more likely to fall into the second case of problems
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08:33:01  <planetmaker> Supercheese, that the patch went without much comment from me just shows that it needs people like you who contribute / take over :) I'm quite happy about that, seeing there's still lots of potential
08:34:30  <planetmaker> for you to think about, if you want: one can also query the grfid which provides an object tile. As such fencing could be more selective as to which grf provides the objects
08:34:59  <Supercheese> well, there are quite a lot of object grfs...
08:35:08  <planetmaker> but as said: that's definitely not for the first version of it. But... yeah, nice detail (which never will work correctly in all cases :P)
08:35:30  <planetmaker> Supercheese, yeah. But maybe only for airport objects (those which explicitly are?)
08:35:53  <planetmaker> or not for those which explicitly aren't?
08:36:11  <planetmaker> of course one cannot cater for all newgrfs :)
08:37:10  <planetmaker> anyway. This thinking should not stop this patch imho. It's only 2nd step, not 1st :)
08:37:50  <Supercheese> I'll implement the autofencing later, now I need to commit the separating of the new airports out into their own entries
08:39:32  <planetmaker> :)
08:40:13  <Supercheese> they have their own set of introduction/withdrawal dates too, I tried to match withdrawal of the vintage ports to introduction of their modern replacements
08:41:52  <planetmaker> ok. There certainly could be some overlap
08:42:06  <planetmaker> but that's cosmetics and personal preference :)
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08:42:34  <Supercheese> yeah, I always tend to disable as many restrictions as possible in my games for maximum sandbox
08:44:03  <andythenorth> hmm
08:44:13  <andythenorth> some of these industry conversions are ridiculously easy
08:44:23  <Supercheese> and others are exactly the opposite?
08:44:34  <andythenorth> clearly the hard cases are hiding somewhere
08:44:55  <andythenorth> probably end up removing around 10k lines of code
08:45:01  <andythenorth> hopefully
08:47:27  * andythenorth wonders if there’s any harm in always setting INDTILE_FLAG_RANDOM_ANIMATION
08:47:35  <andythenorth> even if random bits aren’t used
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08:51:41  <planetmaker> Supercheese, you build your NewGRFs on windows?
08:51:56  <planetmaker> how do you compile them?
08:55:09  <wtfbonjour_> Hello
09:01:49  <planetmaker> hi
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09:54:32  <kamnet> OK I think I'm done with ekranoplans. 42 of them in various states of stats.
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11:29:00  <planetmaker> hm, that sounds nearly wrong... 40 seconds to build complete OpenGFX
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14:29:38  * andythenorth is puzzled
14:29:52  <andythenorth> if the anim_control cb is not handled, what use are the animation triggers?
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14:30:14  <andythenorth> found a bunch of FIRS industries with animation_triggers set
14:30:20  <andythenorth> but no anim_control handler
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14:32:48  <andythenorth> o/
14:32:54  <Alberth> moin
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14:39:21  * andythenorth deletes things to see what happens
14:40:34  <Alberth> it makes space at the hard disk :p
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14:43:39  <andythenorth> it does
14:43:43  <andythenorth> 86 bytes of space
14:43:45  <andythenorth> great
14:44:10  <Alberth> probably you got an entire disk block even
14:44:28  <andythenorth> I’ll do it some more
14:58:55  * andythenorth wonders if there’s some spriteset magic
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14:59:24  <andythenorth> the FIRS spritesets and spritelayouts are quite terrifying in scope
15:05:49  <andythenorth> ha ha
15:05:55  <andythenorth> more FIRS lies about secondary production :D
15:06:36  <andythenorth> I might connect the production amounts up to the industry window text :P
15:06:39  <andythenorth> then the lies would be found
15:14:25  <Alberth> sounds useful :)
15:23:57  <Terkhen> hello
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15:28:28  <argoneus> a lot of devs seem to be around
15:28:30  <argoneus> I have a question
15:28:39  <argoneus> how do you guys hot reload scripts, newgrfs etc without restarting the game?
15:33:15  <Alberth> not
15:35:07  <planetmaker> argoneus, no. Unless I exactly know what changed in the NewGRF up to the level of the internal IDs and callbacks
15:35:33  <argoneus> wait
15:35:35  <planetmaker> or if I don't care about the savegame (thus for testing)
15:35:39  <argoneus> ah
15:35:47  <argoneus> so all the scripts etc are loaded when a scenario is started
15:35:49  <argoneus> not when the game is started
15:36:03  <argoneus> that makes sense :<
15:36:18  <planetmaker> they're integral part of the map and give the map bits their meaning. Yes. Changing that, ... leads to strange results
15:36:51  <argoneus> wel
15:36:57  <argoneus> back onto my quest how to hot reload things then
15:37:28  <Alberth> you really don't
15:38:13  <Alberth> it's not simply unloadable in general, it becomes fully integrated with everything else, no way to get it out cleanly
15:38:35  <planetmaker> you need to learn about console commands
15:38:45  <planetmaker> and the developer settings, if you want to mess with it
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15:41:29  <argoneus> nono
15:41:32  <argoneus> I mean in general, not in ottd
15:41:36  <argoneus> I just thought you guys did it
15:41:47  <planetmaker> eh?
15:42:45  <argoneus> I'm trying to write a plugin system in C
15:42:55  <argoneus> that lets me (re)load functions without halting the program
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15:47:47  <Alberth> evenink
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15:53:03  <planetmaker> oddink :)
15:53:55  <frosch123> moin
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16:01:36  <frosch123> argoneus: the tricky part is to get rid of all (pointer) references to the old version
16:01:36  <andythenorth> ho
16:01:40  * andythenorth wonders what this does
16:01:41  <andythenorth> #define THIS_STR_EXTRA_TEXT_PARAM0 ((8<<16) | 8)
16:01:51  <argoneus> frosch123: how did you see what I wrote
16:01:53  <argoneus> you weren't even here
16:02:01  <andythenorth> he’s magical
16:02:08  <argoneus> is this being logged
16:02:08  <frosch123> with interpreted stuff it is somwhat easier, than with dynamically loaded libs
16:02:57  <frosch123> yes, this is logged, i thought the topic says so, but apparently there was no space
16:03:32  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04:20  <frosch123> it only says in .dev
16:04:59  <argoneus> hmm
16:05:12  <planetmaker> @logs
16:05:12  <DorpsGek> planetmaker:
16:05:25  <frosch123> @op
16:05:28  *** mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by DorpsGek
16:05:48  *** frosch123 changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.5.0 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | for dev-talk
16:05:55  <frosch123> @deop
16:05:58  *** mode/#openttd [-o frosch123] by DorpsGek
16:06:10  <andythenorth> so the ifdef
16:06:12  <andythenorth> why?
16:06:24  * andythenorth didn’t write this code, and wonders if it’s needed
16:06:44  <andythenorth> only used by 2 industries; one of those is simply cargo-culted, the other I see no reason to do this
16:07:25  <frosch123> do the descriptions contain any dynamic numbers?
16:08:27  <andythenorth> they shouldn’t
16:08:37  <andythenorth> unless in debug mode, which is handled by the switch above
16:08:41  * andythenorth checks lang
16:08:58  <frosch123> well, any defines of THIS_STR_EXTRA_TEXT_PARAM0 should tell you :p
16:09:37  <andythenorth> it’s only defined twice
16:09:42  <andythenorth> I think it’s legacy
16:09:50  <andythenorth> possibly the result of the automated conversion from nfo
16:10:29  * andythenorth is cleaning up a rewrite of rewrite of an automated conversion of a rewrite of a ‘my first CPP’ codebase
16:10:45  <andythenorth> like all the best software
16:12:48  <frosch123> andythenorth: it's used for "To double production deliver {SIGNED_WORD} crates supplies within three months (or {SIGNED_WORD} crates for quadruple production" isn't it?
16:13:17  <andythenorth> nah
16:13:22  <andythenorth> that’s primary industries
16:13:25  <andythenorth> this is secondary
16:13:27  <andythenorth> :)
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16:15:13  * andythenorth deletes it
16:16:14  <Alberth> moar free bytes!
16:20:41  <andythenorth> maybe as many as 64
16:22:23  <andythenorth> so with primed caches, FIRS now compiles in 1m15s or so
16:22:26  <andythenorth> which is impressive
16:22:33  <andythenorth> how can it be faster? o_O
16:27:52  <Alberth> it's a sunny friday
16:29:37  <frosch123> what are you frying?
16:30:25  <kamnet> It could be faster if you just stripped out all the unnecessary industries like farming and engineering supplies. :P
16:31:36  <kamnet> @frosch123 Just down the street from me is a drive-thru restaurant named Fish Frydays.
16:32:57  <planetmaker> andythenorth, opengfx compiles in 40s ;)
16:33:27  <andythenorth> that’s faster than ~hours
16:33:30  <andythenorth> what did you do?
16:33:50  <planetmaker> not sure. Nothing really.
16:34:33  <kamnet> Drats. I was hoping Supercheese had a new version of OpenGFX+ Airports up already
16:34:36  <frosch123> planetmaker: i want to look into the nml packaing/installation tomorrow
16:34:50  <frosch123> anyone else has started something that is not linked in the ticket?
16:35:31  <frosch123> kamnet: <- not new enough?
16:35:50  <frosch123> only 10 hours old
16:37:11  <kamnet> I wasn't aware of push/. It's not linked to from the dev page
16:37:26  <kamnet> just release and nightly
16:37:41  <kamnet> So, for that, sir, I thank you very much! :D
16:38:35  <frosch123> paths generally change faster than you can update documentation
16:38:45  <frosch123> so better skip the documentation in the first place :p
16:39:38  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: [09.04.2015 05:40] <Mr_Bones_>
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16:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: he said after this change, nml built for him
16:41:18  <frosch123> the oberhuemer patch looks more fancy that that
16:41:29  <frosch123> *than
16:42:10  <frosch123> but i see that pm added something today :)
16:43:19  <kamnet> Bummer. I was hoping Seaplane Port was now in. :_(
16:49:10  <planetmaker> frosch123, I committed the patch by oberhumer today. And the versioning might be solved like or similar to how I attached it there
16:50:12  <planetmaker> but I'm not 100% sure that solves everything
16:50:22  <planetmaker> however I could use the NML contained in the source bundle
16:50:35  <frosch123> ok, i will try to install the source bundle on some vm or chroot or so
16:51:01  <planetmaker> didn't do that. But explicitly referenced the nmlc. So yeah, more thorough testing needed
16:51:44  <planetmaker> as to the versioning, it needs some thought. Or more thorough updates after releases and we keep the setting of the next_release_version in
16:52:35  <kamnet> Perhaps a silly question, but how far fetched would it be to develop a ShipType spec? :D
16:52:50  <andythenorth> because...?
16:53:02  <frosch123> we have liveries
16:53:05  <frosch123> they suck or so :p
16:53:11  <andythenorth> we discussed that once
16:53:19  <kamnet> Oh?
16:53:20  <frosch123> we also have river/sea ships, but the gui sucks
16:53:20  <andythenorth> there was a new spec and such, but it was not solving anything iirc
16:53:43  <andythenorth> river/sea ships sucks anyway
16:54:14  <frosch123> so, yeah, we have some have-baked things. but the gui is so obscure that no player understands is, and newgrf give up using it :p
16:54:42  <andythenorth> I use it for one ship in Squid
16:54:51  <andythenorth> but Dan is drawing an awesome new sprite that will kill that ship
16:55:18  <andythenorth> actually, I do cripple the bigger ships on rivers/canals
16:55:38  <andythenorth> but pure river ships make no sense for gameplay
16:55:48  <kamnet> Why not?
16:55:54  <andythenorth> why would you use them?
16:56:22  <andythenorth> you don’t use ships unless you need to traverse at least some sea
16:56:33  <andythenorth> ‘nobody’ builds pure river routes
16:56:45  <andythenorth> it makes no sense, RVs and trains are always better
16:57:01  <andythenorth> and if the ship is crippled on sea, you won’t choose it
16:57:02  <kamnet> Except if you're playing before 1820.
16:57:06  <andythenorth> edge case
16:57:10  <andythenorth> but yeah
16:57:22  <andythenorth> I don’t support playing before 1860 or so
16:57:28  <andythenorth> it distorts the game in weird directions
16:57:54  <andythenorth> the game is best played for 100 years or so in the 20th century
16:58:12  <andythenorth> Chris Sawyer had it about right, he just picked the wrong start date, so he could include futuristic trains
16:58:24  <kamnet> It's only best because that's what it has been clasically focused on.
16:58:54  <kamnet> And some of us are just weirdos.
16:59:32  <kamnet> New scenario I'm developing is going to be heavy on rivers that provide players with well-connected routes to start.
16:59:58  <kamnet> Probably starting at 1850, thought about dropping back to 1800 as well.
17:01:13  <andythenorth> you’ll pre-place all the industry?
17:01:50  <kamnet> Yep. But just primary industry. If player needs a secondary industry, they have to fund it themselves. They'll have to make some hard choices.
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17:04:20  <kamnet> I'll place plenty of primary industry (probably more than necessary). I may put a very scant few secondary industry in just to make it not crippling to play.
17:04:43  <kamnet> I'll pre-build some really really crappy winding and sometimes not entirely connected roads and extremely low-speed bridges.
17:05:17  <andythenorth> horse grf?
17:05:19  <kamnet> And lots of rivers, from sea level on up, with height level set to 60.
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17:06:08  <kamnet> Yep, eGRVTS for the horses and early trams. If foobar ever gets time to come back and finish it, 2cc Trams as well. Or if Road Hog gets usable before then, I'll chuck that int oo. :D
17:06:36  <andythenorth> Hog has no horses yet
17:06:47  <andythenorth> Dan will twist my arm though :)
17:07:09  <kamnet> No, but I like the trams.
17:07:33  <andythenorth> Hog will be beta ‘soon'
17:07:47  <kamnet> especially the cargo trams. Funny, speaking of twisting arms, that's what I had to do with Voyager One to get cargo trams drawn, and then like a week later you're putting them in Road hog
17:08:16  <andythenorth> cargo trams ftw
17:08:26  <kamnet> I also tried to get earlier horses, but Voyager and Foobar both balked. Oh well.
17:08:37  <andythenorth> I am not a big fan of horses
17:08:49  <andythenorth> but that might be because they were broken in eGRVTs for so long
17:08:59  <kamnet> I can see tht
17:09:02  * andythenorth will give the horses a second chance
17:09:05  <kamnet> and they're messy to draw and lay out
17:09:31  <kamnet> and they can only go so fast. 10-12 mph.
17:09:40  <andythenorth> the speed will have to be cheated
17:09:43  <kamnet> they only get more powerful if you add more horses.
17:09:44  <andythenorth> same as other things
17:09:57  <andythenorth> bulldozers only go 4mph, except in HEQS
17:10:22  <andythenorth> trucks in the UK are 40t gross weight, not 40t cargo - except in Road Hog
17:10:25  <andythenorth> :P
17:10:48  <kamnet> I think 12 mph is plenty fast for horses. They'll be faster than any mechanical engine or even the first electric trams for about 15 years.
17:11:01  <kamnet> And then they'll fall right off the face of the earth. :D
17:13:04  <andythenorth> I say this rarely, but might be valid for a parameter in Road Hog
17:13:19  <andythenorth> specific to ‘slower’ vehicles
17:19:50  <andythenorth> hmm
17:19:52  * andythenorth has ideas
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17:29:30  <andythenorth> cluster processing industries near their primary supply sources
17:29:36  <andythenorth> rather than away from them, as now :P
17:29:42  <andythenorth> probably boring
17:30:24  <Alberth> find two such clusters, and bring cargo back and forth
17:30:46  <andythenorth> even better
17:30:49  <andythenorth> nice hax
17:31:09  <andythenorth> 17 of 66 FIRS industries converted :|
17:31:13  <andythenorth> or \o/
17:31:16  <andythenorth> can’t decide
17:31:22  <Alberth> @calc 17/66
17:31:22  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 0.257575757576
17:31:31  <andythenorth> I was aiming for 25%
17:31:31  <Alberth> oh 1/4 already
17:31:40  <andythenorth> I am deliberately only doing the easy ones
17:31:51  <andythenorth> most fit the standard template well
17:32:03  <Alberth> and delete the remaining ones :)
17:32:03  <andythenorth> but of course, there are one or two that just have ‘something extra'
17:32:04  <andythenorth>  :P
17:32:35  * andythenorth considers hard-coding long strings of nml and dumping it in for the ‘special’ stuff
17:33:13  <andythenorth> <tal:I_am_ashamed_of_all_my_wrongs replace=“industry.get_all_my_wrongs()” />
17:33:43  <andythenorth> a good templating language is a moral template language
17:34:06  <andythenorth> i.e. it allows the author to make their own moral choices
17:34:38  <frosch123> the funny thing about firs having 66 industries is that full firs is no longer full firs :p
17:34:58  <andythenorth> indeed
17:35:02  <andythenorth> and it’s a stupid name anyway
17:35:08  <andythenorth> Full-Fat FIRS
17:35:14  <andythenorth> FIRS 2 can change that name
17:35:27  <andythenorth> FIRS 2 will change a few things
17:42:53  <andythenorth> hmm
17:43:02  <andythenorth> the python templating step is much slower under python 3
17:43:04  <andythenorth> interesting
17:43:49  <andythenorth> not unexpected
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17:54:37  <kamnet> FIRS Complex Industries?
17:54:44  <kamnet> (as opposed to Basic)
17:55:42  <Alberth> s/ex/ete/
17:55:44  <andythenorth> I suggested some names previously
17:55:55  <andythenorth> but not ones that are family friendly
17:56:50  <Alberth> Retemplated industries :p
17:57:11  <kamnet> FIRS: All c*cked up!
17:59:51  <andythenorth> FIRS: now it’s just like YETI
18:00:31  <andythenorth> 18 done
18:00:35  <andythenorth> only 3 simple ones left
18:00:46  <andythenorth> then I have to use thinking
18:00:51  * andythenorth does not have much thinking to spare
18:01:21  <andythenorth> Alberth I used a deque the other day, I feel all grown up :P
18:02:22  <Alberth> :)
18:02:24  *** DanMacK [] has joined #openttd
18:02:29  <DanMacK> Hey hey
18:02:50  <andythenorth> hello DanMacK
18:03:15  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
18:17:20  <kamnet> Hello Dan!
18:22:44  <kamnet> Boy, Quast65 is getting crazy awesome with this airport objects.
18:24:04  <kamnet>
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18:29:32  <Alberth> going a bit overboard :)
18:33:30  <TrueBrain> @seen DanMacK
18:33:30  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 31 minutes and 0 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey hey
18:33:32  <TrueBrain> @seen andthenorth
18:33:32  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: I have not seen andthenorth.
18:33:39  <TrueBrain> @seen andythenorth
18:33:39  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 30 minutes and 48 seconds ago: <andythenorth> hello DanMacK
18:33:41  <TrueBrain> OMG!
18:33:46  <TrueBrain> IT HAS HAPPENED
18:33:51  <TrueBrain> *freeze time*
18:35:02  *** liq3 [] has quit []
18:37:37  <kamnet> Could be a sock puppet, TrueBrain
18:37:56  <andythenorth> andythenorth is not real
18:37:58  <andythenorth> just a bot
18:38:56  * andythenorth ponders
18:39:17  <TrueBrain> that does give you something to ponder about
18:42:34  <andythenorth> oh my god I’m just an automaton!
18:42:45  <andythenorth> probably some kind of biological replicant
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18:50:42  <andythenorth> maybe I could be cloned
18:52:41  <frosch123> andythesouth
18:52:44  <frosch123> andythewest
18:52:46  <frosch123> andytheeast
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18:53:44  <andythenorth> the clones can do the hard work
18:53:48  <andythenorth> andythenorth will take it easy
18:53:52  <andythenorth> frosch456
18:53:56  <andythenorth> frosch789
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18:55:34  <frosch123> ah, i see, you mean increasing to 9 clones, and put the other 6 into 2 groups
18:56:12  <andythenorth> yes
18:57:20  <andythenorth> bah
18:57:22  * andythenorth is stupid
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18:59:38  <andythenorth> at *most* FIRS secondary industries, delivering all of the 2 or 3 required cargos in combination rewards players with increased output
19:00:06  <andythenorth> but for brewery and textile mill, the combinations have to be specific
19:00:06  <kamnet> Do Andydroids dream of electric sheep
19:00:11  <andythenorth> which makes my code ugly
19:00:31  <andythenorth> all / any ^^^
19:01:02  <kamnet> Why do they have to be specific?
19:03:06  <andythenorth> if you deliver MNSP + grain, you get a boost
19:03:13  <andythenorth> if you deliver MNSP + fruit, you get a boost
19:03:19  <andythenorth> if you deliver grain + fruit, no boost
19:03:30  <andythenorth> seemed like a good idea at the time
19:03:33  <andythenorth> now, I’m not so sure :P
19:04:13  <kamnet> Seems a bit odd to me, too
19:04:44  <kamnet> Well, no it doesn't
19:06:06  <kamnet> I don't see where the brewery gets any type of enhanced production by having two types of foods to brew. It just gets more stuff to brew
19:06:12  <andythenorth> it’s wholly logical currently
19:06:17  <andythenorth> but meh
19:06:18  <kamnet> MNSP in theory gives the brewery new ways to do it
19:06:33  <andythenorth> the logic is over-rated
19:06:40  <andythenorth> can’t make steel from iron ore + scrap alone
19:06:49  <andythenorth> still need coal
19:07:18  <andythenorth> but the steel mill still provides a boost for iron ore + scrap
19:07:28  <andythenorth> because otherwise boring
19:07:30  <kamnet> Maybe it shouldn't?
19:07:45  <andythenorth> nah, it’s better to be rewarding
19:08:07  <kamnet> So pick that path andd be consistent. grain+fruit=boost.
19:08:12  <andythenorth> apple brandy
19:08:13  <andythenorth> innit
19:08:30  <andythenorth> oh brandy is wine
19:08:31  <andythenorth> nvm
19:08:34  <kamnet> Then again, I'm a teetotaler.
19:08:37  * andythenorth learns something every day
19:09:08  <andythenorth> I can fix this in code, it will just be ugly code
19:18:43  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
19:19:40  <andythenorth> stuff like this is usually the sign of a bad design
19:25:08  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:52:19  <FedeWolfie> hey guys, need help
19:52:32  <FedeWolfie> I've got an air port
19:52:47  <FedeWolfie> There are two planes in there
19:53:18  <FedeWolfie> The first works well, carried passengers leave the airport and I get paid for the transport
19:54:01  <FedeWolfie> The second one carries both passengers and goods but all of them kind of stay in airport blocked and I won't get paid or anything
19:54:06  <FedeWolfie> Why?
19:54:16  <FedeWolfie> Please help me
19:54:29  <frosch123> what does the statusbar of the aircraft say, if you open its window?
19:54:52  <frosch123> there are no aircraft carrying both passenger and goods btw
19:54:58  <frosch123> only passenger+mail
19:55:09  <FedeWolfie> I mean passenger+ mail
19:55:41  <FedeWolfie> Anyway it normally follows the given path but all of  its content remains in airport
19:56:34  <frosch123> so, does the aircraft not load? or does it not unload?
19:56:58  <frosch123> or does it not leave after finishing loading?
19:57:20  <FedeWolfie> It does unload normally, but all of its content doesn't "leave" the airport
19:57:40  <frosch123> what do its orders say?
19:57:58  <frosch123> did you set "transfer" or something?
19:58:24  <FedeWolfie> >Reach airport 1 and load > reach airport 2 and unload
19:58:53  <frosch123> so you set it specically to "unload" instead of "unload if accepted"?
19:59:08  <frosch123> does the airport window say it accepts the cargo?
19:59:35  <FedeWolfie> Yeah it does, in fact it accepts the passengers from the first plane
20:00:01  <FedeWolfie> no didnt set specifically
20:01:58  <frosch123> no idea then
20:02:37  <Marty> are you using normal openttd or any newgrfs?
20:03:03  <FedeWolfie> stable 1.5.0, multiplayer
20:03:15  <FedeWolfie> NewGRF
20:04:24  <Marty> are the planes identical or have you refiited one of them?
20:04:58  <frosch123> is cargodist enabled?
20:05:11  <FedeWolfie> The planes are different
20:05:20  * andythenorth adds jank for this bad design choice
20:05:22  <FedeWolfie> No cargodist
20:05:30  <andythenorth> the irony is that the current code actually has bugs in it anyway
20:05:35  <andythenorth> the boost amounts are wrong :P
20:05:37  <Supercheese> planetmaker: Delayed overnight response, but yes I build my grfs on windows using gcc from MinGW and the win32 compiled nmlc.exe
20:05:44  <Alberth> aircraft window shows it has pax loaded?
20:05:55  <FedeWolfie> pax?
20:06:05  <Alberth> passengers (and mail)
20:06:10  <FedeWolfie> yeah sure
20:06:29  <Alberth> picture of savegame would be useful, I think
20:06:42  <frosch123> how do you actually know that they stay on the airport?
20:06:50  <frosch123> does the airport not supply pax on its own?
20:06:50  <Marty> hmm maybe check if airport accepts passengers again
20:07:25  <FedeWolfie> If I click on the airport the storage tells me that there are 1700 passengers and 1600 mails
20:07:36  <FedeWolfie> Gonna upload a snap soon
20:08:23  <Marty> after snap, try save game, close ttd and reload game
20:08:39  <Alberth> ...
20:08:55  <frosch123> Marty: this is not windows :p
20:09:11  <frosch123> esp. not in multiplayer
20:09:14  <Marty> I know.... but I never seen that bug
20:09:48  <Alberth> it's most likely not a bug
20:09:57  <Marty> And want to know if it persistent in case of some corruption
20:10:23  <frosch123> Marty: he would have gotten kicked from the game due to desync for long
20:11:00  <Marty> likely yes, I remember having a similar bug but that was almost 10 years ago
20:11:06  <Marty> never seen it since
20:11:31  <FedeWolfie>
20:11:36  <Alberth> hmm, did openttd exist then?
20:12:03  <FedeWolfie> Yeah, it was made in 2004
20:12:06  <Marty> ofc, openttd is quite old actually
20:12:13  <frosch123> Alberth: we head 10th birthday last year :p
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20:12:39  <FedeWolfie> I uploaded, let me know
20:12:54  <frosch123> Alberth: we are past the tipping point
20:12:58  <Alberth> hmm, good point :p
20:13:03  <frosch123> ottd is older than ttd was when ottd started
20:14:27  <Alberth> both seem to be flying (or were flying)?
20:14:35  <Marty> The save game works fine at my pc
20:15:16  <Alberth> that airport is empty
20:15:19  <Marty> doh wrong plane
20:15:35  <FedeWolfie> Does the second plane get money with unload?
20:15:49  <Marty> The orders of aircraft2 is go to tarham woods
20:15:58  <Marty> It does not accept people
20:16:51  <FedeWolfie> In tartham woods it should load mails and passengers and then it should unload in kinfingley
20:17:12  <FedeWolfie> As I've seen it does unload but no money
20:17:35  <Alberth> tarhan has no pax
20:17:42  <Marty> if there are no people supplied to the airport then no money
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20:17:52  <Alberth> it's out of reach for pax to go to the airport
20:18:00  <Marty> yeah, but he left Alberth
20:18:08  <Marty> so was just a rookie mistake
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20:18:20  <Alberth> usually the case
20:18:28  <FedeWolfie> Oh it disconnected sorry
20:18:28  <Alberth> (22:17:52) Alberth: it's out of reach for pax to go to the airport
20:19:02  <FedeWolfie> so? what should I do?
20:19:16  <Marty> sell plane or fly else where
20:19:18  <Alberth> build it closer to the town, until the airport build window says "accepts passenghers (and mail)
20:19:42  <Alberth> ^ tarham that is
20:20:05  <FedeWolfie> It does yet
20:20:14  <FedeWolfie> The first plane still works
20:20:25  <Marty> first plane does not fly to tarham
20:22:32  <FedeWolfie> the first flies to another place
20:22:42  <Marty> exactly
20:22:57  <Alberth> click the airport, then then the little aircraft near the bottom of the window
20:23:03  <FedeWolfie> but it carries passengers and unloads them successfully
20:23:22  <Alberth> yes, its destination is close enough to houses
20:23:31  <Marty> Tarham airport does not accept pax, so no one want to go there
20:23:45  <Alberth> tarham accepts pax from the aircraft, but not the other way around
20:24:22  <Alberth> both areas are different
20:25:07  <FedeWolfie> aww finally, thanks :D
20:26:45  <Alberth>
20:27:05  <Alberth> notice how the build window says "passengers" with supplies, but not accepts
20:27:52  <FedeWolfie> I read accepts, I'm an idiot :v
20:28:03  <FedeWolfie> Thank you for your time C:
20:28:12  <Alberth> it's quite ambiguous :)
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20:30:54  <Alberth> gn
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20:33:07  <Samu> hi
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20:40:25  <andythenorth> making sugarcane / sugar beet climate-dependent was such a dumb move :)
20:40:33  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:40:41  <andythenorth> FIRS code has to jump hoops for this one small thing
20:43:26  *** Marty [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:44:59  <Supercheese> Feel free to consolidate them
20:45:09  <Supercheese> I highly doubt anyone would complain
20:48:43  <andythenorth> maybe in V2 :P
20:48:47  <andythenorth> it was all my fault anyway
20:49:20  <andythenorth> sugarcane and sugar beet are quite different cargos
20:52:55  * andythenorth will fix that in V2
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21:00:58  <V453000> FIRS dying to version 2? :D awesome
21:04:47  <andythenorth> V453000: going to kill some stuff :P
21:05:13  <andythenorth> also bloody farms will get, at least changed, if not fixed
21:05:38  <andythenorth> also V453000 how about rendering some *realistic* ships that look good at 1x zoom? o_O
21:05:43  <frosch123> did Supercheese send you his savegame?
21:05:47  <V453000> yeah
21:05:48  <V453000> nope
21:05:52  <andythenorth> challenge yourself with actual pixel style realism :P
21:05:59  <frosch123> with all industries on map getting supplies
21:06:01  * andythenorth hates drawing ships
21:06:01  <V453000> maybe eventually when I get to ships in RAWR
21:06:06  <V453000> which isnt anytime soon :P
21:06:16  <andythenorth> nobody managed to supply all FIRS industries ever
21:06:22  <andythenorth> :P
21:06:26  * andythenorth disbelieves it
21:06:40  <frosch123> i somehow doubt V would draw ships
21:06:43  <frosch123> rather ducks
21:06:48  <frosch123> or godzillas
21:07:00  <frosch123> whales
21:07:48  <V453000> it will happen :)
21:07:51  <V453000> sooner or later
21:09:53  * andythenorth pins his hopes on pikka
21:10:00  <andythenorth> otherwise me and Dan will actually have to draw them
21:10:04  <andythenorth> with pixels
21:10:05  <andythenorth> by hand
21:10:08  <andythenorth> obscene
21:11:09  <andythenorth> also bed time
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21:11:13  *** Klanticus [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:13:15  <Supercheese> oh blast
21:13:38  <Supercheese> I was too late
21:14:30  <kamnet> DOH
21:17:16  <kamnet> [17:11]	<--|	andythenorth has left #openttd
21:17:18  <kamnet> [17:11]	|<--	DanMacK has left (Quit: Page closed)
21:17:39  <kamnet> I'm certain they're one in the same now.
21:18:23  <frosch123> no, dates sometimes leave together
21:19:08  <kamnet> There you go.
21:19:31  <kamnet> Y'know, just when I say I'm done researching ground effect vehicles, I keep finding something else to add.
21:25:34  <Supercheese> well, you're stuck until the ship movement handler is updated
21:25:41  <Supercheese> no ship can exceed ~79 mph
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21:39:45  <Supercheese> Ha, the German for hovercraft is amazing
21:39:47  <Supercheese> Luftkissenboot
21:39:54  <Supercheese> I love German
21:40:36  <Supercheese> aircushionboat
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22:07:34  <frosch123> Supercheese: i like "perpendicular" as english word, though it is kind of latin
22:07:59  <Supercheese> perpendicular is a perfectly "normal" word ;)
22:08:09  <Supercheese> Math pun ho
22:08:17  <frosch123> :p
22:09:52  <V453000> xd
22:16:28  <kamnet> Supercheese: Even if it doesn't get done, they'll still be fun to have.
22:18:06  <kamnet> *ponders* Should I go ahead and start throwing in costs on these
22:36:34  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
22:36:42  <supermop> hello
22:38:30  <planetmaker> frosch123, did packaging work for NML for you?
22:38:52  <frosch123> didn't try yet :)
22:39:00  <kamnet> Good evening, supermop
22:39:06  <frosch123> today is starcraft evening :)
22:41:37  <planetmaker> ho :)
22:51:20  <supermop> i cant figure out how best to represent a certain type of stonework because i nver learned what it is called
22:52:00  <supermop> where the stones have a rough split face in the center, but then a very fine clean chiseled edge where the fit together
22:53:19  <planetmaker> mason :)
22:56:17  <supermop> hmm we use masonary to refer any type of stacked block construction fancy or otherwise
22:56:32  <supermop> bricks and concrete included
22:56:39  <supermop> even haybales!
22:58:10  <frosch123> <- something like that?
22:58:11  <supermop> the type im thinking of is similar to ashlar but fancier
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23:00:36  <frosch123> supermop: the german term is "Bossenstein"
23:00:42  <frosch123> but wiki has no link to an english page
23:00:57  <frosch123>
23:02:18  <supermop> hmm not quite, similar but with a 50mm or so smooth border around the edge of the stone
23:02:30  <supermop> very 1830s-1870s french in style i think
23:02:44  <frosch123> yes, i know what you mean
23:03:27  <planetmaker> he... I didn't know that word, even in German, frosch123 :)
23:03:41  <planetmaker> and why is there another nick coming first in completion with fr...
23:03:53  <frosch123>
23:04:35  <frosch123> supermop: still the same name
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23:05:21  <Samu> i just had an idea that could help nerf aircraft high income
23:05:49  <Samu> reduced acceleration
23:05:53  <Samu> while aging
23:06:05  <supermop> hmm
23:06:05  <Samu> the older it gets, the slower it accelerates
23:06:51  <supermop> i never learned whatever the english term would be, but based on the era in which the style was used in the anglosphere i bet it would be the french term
23:07:52  <supermop> hmm or 'bossage'
23:08:08  <frosch123> <- many pictures
23:08:19  <frosch123> there are bossage and rustication
23:08:26  <planetmaker> Samu, and how do you justify that?
23:08:50  <planetmaker> also, just make that as NewGRF. Thus: can already be done
23:09:41  <Samu> i was looking at each design and their lifetime
23:10:41  <supermop> can't find any bump maps under german or english term though
23:10:53  <supermop> so may need to make my own
23:10:55  <Samu> am also doing some kind of reseach on them
23:12:29  <Samu> using a lifetime income patch that was posted on the forum, it's interesting to see that a minor difference in reliability has a great impact on it
23:12:57  <planetmaker> anyway... I don't see any chance for such kind of patch
23:12:59  <Samu> maybe a mix of reduced acceleration based on age and reliability
23:14:49  <Samu> still have to finish this research, but it's interesting to see breakdowns doing major lifetime income so far
23:14:55  <supermop> i think i will try to find good split stone bump map, create a 3d surface from that, then trim the 3d surface with clean edge surfaces, array into to brick pattern, render hear on, and export zbuffer from rendering to create new bumpmap
23:15:08  <Samu> can sometimes be a difference of £1.000.000
23:15:19  <Samu> for the same model
23:17:57  <Samu> there was an interesting result, let me find it
23:20:02  <Samu> Darwin 500 vs Guru Galaxy, they have nearly the same capacity
23:20:41  <Samu> 78% reliability vs 76% reliability
23:20:53  <Samu> 25 years old vs 20 years old
23:21:46  <Samu> £2,209,398 vs £1,568,114
23:22:36  <frosch123> night
23:22:38  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
23:23:01  <Samu> damn, i'm confusing myself
23:23:20  <Samu> i remember they had the same age, almost the same capacity but very different reliablity
23:27:20  <Samu> why the hell didn't i take note of my results :(
23:30:27  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
23:32:27  <Samu> found one interesting comparison
23:33:03  <Samu> FFP Dart vs Bakewell Luckett LB-9
23:33:42  <Samu> 90pass/10mail vs 100pass/15mail
23:33:54  <Samu> very different duration on both
23:34:04  <Samu> 18 years vs 26 years
23:34:32  <Samu> now before telling their reliablity, here's their lifetime profit:
23:35:19  <Samu> £1.020.153 vs £1.083,969
23:35:24  *** Defaultti [] has quit [Quit: Quitting.]
23:35:44  <Samu> 95% vs 80%
23:35:58  <Samu> breakdowns as normal
23:37:35  *** Defaultti [] has joined #openttd
23:38:08  <Samu> nearly the same lifetime profit, but that 18 years vs 26 years, it's interesting to see how much 15% max reliablity difference can make
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