Log for #openttd on 16th April 2015:
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03:12:29  <kamnet> I am dead. I am dead. I am Dead. I have returned to the land of the living. I am a zombie. I am a zombie. I am a zombie.
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06:10:14  <andythenorth> o/
06:17:11  <kamnet> \o
06:22:11  <kamnet> I wish I could understand the lyrics here:
06:23:57  <andythenorth> kamnet: does the WIRE grf add anything to gameplay?
06:24:04  <andythenorth> I have been considering something similar
06:27:06  <kamnet> No I don't think it really does. Its just something else to transport.
06:27:29  <andythenorth> power plant -> power -> town
06:27:31  <andythenorth> was my thought
06:27:37  <kamnet> In WIRES the power plants accept coal, but AFAICT doesn't require them in order to generate electriccity.
06:27:42  <andythenorth> but I wouldn’t want to tie it to electricity
06:27:55  <andythenorth> gas is also valid
06:27:58  * andythenorth dunno
06:28:06  <kamnet> steam generated from the recycling centers
06:28:47  <andythenorth> maybe
06:28:50  <andythenorth> they have a chimney
06:29:00  <andythenorth> original FIRS design had an incinerator for waste
06:29:29  <andythenorth> ‘power’ would need a whole new transport type, hacked on trains
06:29:34  <andythenorth> so it’s a lot of work for minimal result
06:29:36  <kamnet> I always thought the recycling center also looked like a waste incerator too
06:30:01  <kamnet> Yeah, especially if some AI is just going to try to transport it all using lorries.
06:30:23  <andythenorth> based on this
06:30:27  <andythenorth> for no particular reason
06:30:39  <kamnet> Nice looking plant
06:33:06  <supermop> i wouldn't bother with power until there is a non-railtype means of transporting it
06:33:10  <kamnet> I grew up not far from this one:
06:33:37  <supermop> or until there is a way for power to be meaningful without being transported
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06:35:29  <kamnet> City Growth gamescripts could require it, just like food and water.
06:36:08  <supermop> currently they only work by recording what is delivered
06:36:41  <supermop> so either all coal delivered to town counts regardless of where, or you'd need to 'deliver' power
06:36:42  <andythenorth> there is a town control newgrf spec
06:36:52  <andythenorth> which afaik nobody is using meaningfully
06:37:14  <supermop> would be better for town to just check if nearby powerplant is being supplied
06:37:42  <supermop> do not even need to verify how well it is being supplied
06:38:18  <supermop> really a well supplied steel mill should grow town too though - more jobs, needs more workers
06:38:24  <supermop> idk
06:39:01  <supermop> if some industries could have a flag for if they are 'active' or not, and some of them then pass that on to nearby towns
06:39:11  <kamnet> I think a bigger game-change improvement for OpenTTD would be more industries that requires passengers to operate.
06:40:00  <supermop> well you could probably build a steel mill today that only requires a coouple gys o run, rather than thousands
06:40:28  <kamnet> Perhaps that would be even better than farm/industry supplies.
06:40:46  <supermop> in many areas, if there is no transit to the industry, workers will just drive
06:41:03  <supermop> and in the 19th C the workers just lived next to the factory and walked
06:42:11  <supermop> sure you could say that better transit to the industry is a perk, which allows the industry to attract workers at a lower wage, which leaves more money for operating the industry
06:42:23  <supermop> but then you are down the rabbit hole
06:43:07  <andythenorth> I thought YETI had workers covered?
06:43:11  <supermop> and are confronted with arguements of, how can this steel mill afford to keep buying 10,000 tons of ore every month
06:43:16  <supermop> as does manpower
06:43:21  <kamnet> I'm just thinking about how many players complain that moving cargo is less interesting than moving passengers.
06:43:55  <andythenorth> do they? o_O
06:44:14  <kamnet> Plenty enough that completely ignore cargo.
06:44:24  <supermop> i prefer to focus on passengers, but i have never heard anyone else say that
06:44:27  <kamnet> Maybe it's jsut redditors. :D
06:45:46  <kamnet> But I"m thinking, hey, cargodist wants you to take passengers from city to nearby industry. Now that you spent all that money building a rail/bus stop to get them there and back, double-up on your utilization and start moving the output from the industry back.
06:46:27  <andythenorth> my workers walk
06:46:43  <andythenorth> and consider themselves grateful
06:47:04  <supermop> i mean i can see it more as a disincentive to steelmills out in the middle of nowhere
06:47:29  <supermop> but a passenger train to a remote factory makes even less sense
06:47:43  <V453000> asdf
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06:48:08  <supermop> we have awoken the beast
06:48:45  <kamnet> Still, other than just being neat eyecandy and something else to shift around, I don't see power being something particularly useful to OpenTTD in its current state.
06:49:36  <kamnet> Although it would be neat if Supercheese just fixed the issue with electricity being shipped by non-WIRES vehicles.
06:50:40  <Supercheese> I think I posted the sources
06:50:42  * Supercheese checks
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06:51:15  <supermop> electricity, gas, water should just move on its own via unseen infrastructure
06:51:31  <supermop> until such time as we can have conveyors, pipes, etc
06:51:40  <Supercheese> agh didn't post 'em
06:52:05  <supermop> best use for electricity is to allow aluminum plant to work
06:53:47  <kamnet> Yep, that wouldd be a good use
06:53:59  <Supercheese> you can already use the PIPE grf for water eh
06:59:24  <kamnet> Water. oil... beer...
07:07:26  <supermop> ugh
07:07:29  <supermop> out of beer
07:20:13  <andythenorth> milk
07:20:18  * andythenorth has milk pipelines in current game
07:20:28  <supermop> i should model some van molyvan buildings
07:21:00  <supermop> could fit into a brutalist/tropic modern/metabolist/ or SEA set
07:22:16  <supermop>
07:26:25  <andythenorth> you should model a range of ships and output them to 8bpp
07:26:46  <V453000> nice mess
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07:29:15  <supermop> its a cool building, both the original and the current ad hoc state
07:29:27  <supermop> isn't pikka doing ships?
07:29:43  <supermop> didn't you also do ships? do we need more ships?
07:29:50  <V453000> shits are uselez
07:29:59  <V453000> I will do a couple of shits once I need them for rawr
07:31:33  <andythenorth> the ships we have are lame
07:31:39  <andythenorth> we are binning Squid
07:31:41  <andythenorth> and starting again
07:31:46  <V453000> XD
07:31:48  <V453000> great
07:31:59  <V453000> the 4 rawr ships will have no competition
07:32:01  <V453000> GG
07:32:22  <supermop> why not do what pikkas doing, just a small medium and large ship
07:32:29  <andythenorth>
07:32:35  <andythenorth> pikka will get bored of that and add more :)
07:33:04  <andythenorth> really stripped down rosters are not, in fact, fun
07:33:17  <supermop> wont boat hulls in 8bpp just look the same as ships
07:33:45  <V453000> 32bpp for eternity!
07:33:55  <supermop> *as squid
07:34:13  <andythenorth> supermop these ones will go to 11
07:34:21  <supermop> 32bpp needs to much rust and shit all over the boat
07:34:24  <supermop> 11bpp?
07:35:07  <V453000> rust is easy to make and adds a TON of beauty quickly
07:37:35  <supermop> i don't really know much about boats
07:37:45  <supermop> or give a shit
07:37:51  <supermop> i have a boater hat
07:38:11  <supermop> boat neck jumper with navy stripes
07:38:35  <supermop> rowboats maybe
07:39:09  <supermop> also don't give a shit about steam....
07:39:18  <V453000> I dont know fuck about boats either, but them being friendly with rust means they are easy to model and make nice looking
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08:14:48  <supermop> need to render mlss sheds
08:15:52  <supermop> maybe i'll use revit
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08:21:16  <V453000> just use a normal graphics 3D program :P
08:22:01  <supermop>
08:23:34  <V453000> tldr not enough pictures
08:24:21  <supermop> boats
08:32:53  <supermop> really hope dont have to live in greenpoint when i go back
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08:33:08  <supermop> not commuting is best part of living in nyc
08:33:25  <supermop> hopefully chinatown will still be cheap as it was when i left
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08:42:20  <kamnet> That was a good article, supermop.
08:42:36  <kamnet> Where do you live now
08:42:38  <kamnet> ?
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09:04:49  <Pikka> oh
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09:11:51  <kamnet> oh, Pikka
09:11:53  <kamnet> ?
09:19:39  <kamnet> Hey Pikka, since you're here and I'm thinking about it, where can I find your template for planes?
09:21:20  <Pikka> I have a template for planes?
09:22:56  <kamnet> That's what I read
09:23:07  <Pikka> where?
09:23:31  <kamnet> early pages of WS development
09:23:34  <kamnet> WAS, even
09:24:05  <kamnet> Discussion on why they didn't just roll their work into planeset, or just become AV8+.
09:24:20  <supermop> live in melbourne now
09:25:07  <Pikka> well, I provided the greyscales for the initial aircraft for WAS, perhaps they're referring to those
09:28:25  <supermop> before that was new york, before that st louis, before that columbus
09:29:04  <supermop> i think you'll have to model/render the seaplanes kamnet
09:29:34  <Supercheese> well, is there a general render template?
09:29:48  <Supercheese> i.e. by how many degrees are planes inclined when climbing/landing/etc
09:29:53  <kamnet> They might be.  I might have read it wrong too.
09:32:09  <supermop> could probably make up angles
09:32:11  <Pikka> I could tell you those numbers, certainly
09:32:19  <Pikka> but it's dinner time now, bbs :)
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09:47:49  <kamnet> Here's why I like combing through old topics. You find crazy stuff like this:
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10:02:15  <andythenorth> power power power plants
10:03:13  <supermop> do it
10:03:52  <supermop> but only wind, hydro, and other plants that would be utterly boring to interact with as a player
10:04:14  <supermop> deliver turbine blades to turbine
10:04:21  <supermop> stockpile size = 3
10:04:45  <supermop> stockpile comsumed 1 blade every 15 years
10:05:06  <kamnet> Hydro power plants. I've got NewGRF for that!
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10:05:58  <kamnet> Those graphics are quite horrible, actually.
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10:07:35  <supermop> bootstrap plant by divering heavy equipment, turbines, boilers, generators, reactor vessels
10:07:44  <supermop> then never deliver again
10:07:52  <supermop> or not for 40 years or so
10:08:22  <supermop> off to get dinner myself
10:08:25  <supermop> later
10:08:35  <planetmaker> guten Mampf ;)
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10:19:32  * andythenorth has been considering ‘unlock regions of the map’ GameScripts
10:19:41  <andythenorth> ‘provide power’ could be an unlock
10:19:57  <andythenorth> a GS that founds towns
10:20:00  <andythenorth> you start with one town
10:20:03  <andythenorth> no power, no town
10:20:13  <andythenorth> it would need to make some fragile assumptions about the industry newgrf
10:21:51  <V453000> XD
10:23:02  <Pikka> kaboom
10:23:29  <kamnet> Everybody talking about getting dinner and I've not even had breakfast yet
10:25:02  <Pikka> fwiw aircraft in av8 climb at 20 degrees, Supercheese
10:25:49  <Pikka> and flare at 10
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10:27:59  <Pikka> "Mr Coe said this did not phase the Canberra Liberals."
10:28:05  <Pikka> journalism is officially dead
10:28:57  <andythenorth> bonsoir Pikka
10:29:06  <andythenorth> ah your government and your journalists
10:29:35  <andythenorth> also power plants
10:29:37  <andythenorth> yes / no?
10:30:01  <planetmaker> andythenorth, seems you use strange encodings for at least one file:
10:30:07  <planetmaker> which makes compilation fail
10:30:12  <Pikka> power plants maybe?
10:30:35  <Pikka> they're very traditional, which FIRS for the most part is not
10:31:14  <Pikka> and yes, my journalists who can't spell faze.
10:32:01  <kamnet> perhaps they meant phased, as in transitioning from one state of existence to another?
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10:33:08  <kamnet> if the Canbera Liberals are still here, then indeed they were not phased at all!
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10:38:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: that’s a boo boo
10:40:26  * andythenorth pushes a fix
10:51:20  * andythenorth wonders why it was tripping up, it’s python 3, default encoding is assumed to be utf-8
10:52:21  <planetmaker> I wonder about that, too. But sometimes OSX uses some other fancy encodings unique to OSX
10:53:07  <andythenorth> I had a random unicode char that looked like a mis-type
10:53:24  <andythenorth> å
10:53:39  * andythenorth doesn’t know if that’s utf-8 or not
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11:09:39  <supermop> power unlock sounds good
11:25:24  <Pikka> current state of pineapple industry planning. Too vanilla, or not vanilla enough?
11:28:04  <andythenorth> Pikka: so many arrows :o
11:28:08  <andythenorth> :)
11:28:27  <andythenorth> no pineapple cargo?
11:28:36  <Pikka> fruit plantation? :)
11:29:08  <planetmaker> hm... fruits... depicted as yeti-sized pineapples on flatbed wagons :)
11:29:09  <andythenorth> do economies
11:29:17  <andythenorth> forget climate variations, they’re tedious :P
11:29:27  <Pikka> I have forgotten climate variations
11:29:35  <andythenorth> water?
11:29:40  <Pikka> except water, because of game mechanics
11:29:59  <Pikka> the olde towns-in-desert-won't-grow-without-it
11:30:54  <Pikka> also, forget economies. why draw and code industries you're not going to play with? :)
11:31:09  <andythenorth> I play more than one game of OpenTTD per year :P
11:31:29  <Pikka> but surely one economy is the best? ;)
11:32:07  <Pikka> put the good bits of the others into that, get rid of the bad bits. Now you have the  bestest economy and no need for any others.
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11:32:18  <planetmaker> Pikka, the industry newgrf can define another cargo to fulfil water's purpose
11:32:25  <andythenorth> economies solve ‘trying to make the perfect balance’
11:32:46  <Pikka> I know that planetmaker. But that doesn't solve tropic being different. :)
11:32:54  <Pikka> just adding water is the simplest solution.
11:33:20  <andythenorth> “just add water"
11:33:25  <andythenorth> "for delicious cookies”
11:33:25  <Pikka> exactly
11:33:39  <planetmaker> true :)
11:33:42  <Pikka> hmm
11:33:53  <planetmaker> though I find water a bit strange cargo for a train game
11:34:02  <andythenorth> water train
11:34:15  <Pikka> maybe I'll put water supplies in all climates and make food processing plants accept it. as a homage to N3V. :)
11:34:50  <planetmaker> n3v?
11:35:15  <Pikka> the erstwhile Auran, developers of Trainz
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11:36:12  <andythenorth> Pikka: it looks
all fine
11:36:15  <andythenorth> but not very pikka-ish
11:36:29  <Pikka> the COO originally made his money from a bottled water company called neverfail, which is where the new name comes from.
11:36:41  <Pikka> not very pikkaish? it's mostly TaI :P
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11:41:31  <Pikka> oh, andy, I've also rethought having one truck per generation and just relying on refit... I'm back to seperate box, livestock, flat, hopper and tanker trucks :)
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11:49:31  <supermop> sounds fine
11:49:53  <supermop> trucks are boring so it's a pain to have too many of them
11:50:05  <supermop> but
11:50:10  <supermop> simple is good
11:50:37  <supermop> why do brickworks take gasoline?
11:50:49  <Pikka> to fire the kilns
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11:51:19  <supermop> not coal?
11:51:31  <Pikka> nope. because...
11:51:35  <supermop> our family's brickyard used wood then coal
11:51:46  <Pikka> well, they can run on fuel oil. or gas.
11:52:01  <Pikka> and there's already two destinations for coal, and only a dump for fuel oil. :)
11:52:06  <supermop> hmm
11:52:10  <supermop> tar for roads?
11:52:24  <andythenorth> Pikka: I am +1 to your truck choices
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11:52:31  <supermop> refineries should make more than two products, but i guess that's not feasible
11:52:37  <andythenorth> ‘one truck and refit’ is so
.logical :(
11:52:42  <andythenorth> logical does not fun make
11:52:56  <supermop> petrol could be tar or asphalt or whatever
11:52:58  <Pikka> also doesn't make for as many pretty variations :)
11:53:02  <andythenorth> also
11:53:04  <andythenorth> and also
11:53:09  <Pikka> but where does it go, supermop?
11:53:16  <supermop> tar?
11:53:18  <andythenorth> for economies without batshit number of cargos
11:53:19  <Pikka> yes
11:53:26  <andythenorth> lots of trucks are one-click-build, no refit
11:53:42  <Pikka> oh whoops
11:53:52  <Pikka> I've got the oil refinery producing 3 cargos, good point ;)
11:54:01  <andythenorth> patch openttd
11:54:05  <andythenorth> use random cargos cb?
11:54:05  <supermop> i don't know i guess it'd be bdmt in firs
11:54:12  * andythenorth just removed random cargos in FIRS
11:54:21  <supermop> so just goods in this, which is pointles...?
11:54:27  <andythenorth> add a port
11:54:28  <andythenorth> ports are fun
11:54:42  <Pikka> I could just combine plastic and rfpr, which is the 3rd cargo I just added. :)
11:54:46  <andythenorth> ports make it easy to fix gameplay imbalance
11:54:49  <supermop> fine chemicals refinery separate
11:54:49  <andythenorth> plastic is daft
11:55:00  <Pikka> I'll just call it all rfpr then, to both factories :)
11:55:02  <andythenorth> plastic is rfpr, or mnsp
11:55:14  <supermop> one makes heavy oil shit and gasoline, other makes chemicals and... other chemicals?
11:55:31  <supermop> idk
11:55:47  <Pikka> nope, one refinery, makes fuel and refined
11:56:01  <Pikka> two factories, one makes goods and one makes fm/en supplies :)
11:56:04  <supermop> andythenorth should add pubs to firs that produce empties
11:56:12  <andythenorth> FUEL is a missing cargo
11:56:16  <andythenorth> could be abused for much things
11:56:18  <Pikka> petr
11:56:20  <Pikka> is fuel
11:56:20  <andythenorth> FIRS should have FUEL
11:56:27  <andythenorth> I know, petrol :(
11:56:33  <Pikka> I call it fuel oil
11:56:39  <andythenorth> I tried that
11:56:45  <andythenorth> but it got changed :P
11:56:52  <andythenorth> Pikka: also huzzah, ships!
11:57:01  <andythenorth> me and Dan have decided Squid is Shit
11:57:01  <Pikka> that's what you get for open-sourcing your translations :)
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11:57:10  <andythenorth> new Squid!
11:57:11  <andythenorth> better
11:57:15  <andythenorth> Octopus
11:57:30  <Pikka> Calamari Jane
11:57:39  <andythenorth> moar ships
11:57:41  <andythenorth> or different
11:58:49  <Pikka> the real question is
11:59:00  <Pikka> am I allowed to call "refined products" "chemicals"?
11:59:04  <andythenorth> I do
11:59:08  <Pikka> good
11:59:09  <Pikka> then I shall
11:59:13  <andythenorth> I would
11:59:15  <andythenorth> I do in fact
11:59:17  <andythenorth> frequently
11:59:36  <Pikka> factory accepts chemicals, steel and lumber
11:59:43  <Pikka> supply factory accepts chemicals, steel and goods
11:59:58  <Pikka> that's going to trip people up when they try and deliver lumber to the supply factory :D
12:00:02  <andythenorth> I went rogue in tropic
12:00:06  <andythenorth> no refiney, this instead
12:00:17  <andythenorth> "refiney”
12:00:21  <Pikka> si
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12:01:13  <Pikka> I reeeeeeeeeeally want to use JAVA but it doesn't really fit. I'll just have to do a coffee variation on the fruit plantation.
12:01:34  <Pikka> JAVA would be good for toyland though, mugs on a flatbed.
12:01:46  <andythenorth> coffee is fun
12:01:57  <andythenorth> apparently the second most valuable commidity in the developing world
12:01:59  <andythenorth> after oil
12:02:05  <andythenorth> whatever that means
12:02:15  <Pikka> it's particularly fun since its accepting industry returns farm supplies :)
12:02:44  <supermop> the problem with ports, is that the max out too easily
12:03:02  <andythenorth> in FIRS?
12:03:22  <supermop> if i have a cluster of coffee plantations, just one of them will quickly push the trading post to gung ho
12:03:44  <supermop> then, i can supply the rest with supplies too but whats the point
12:04:02  <Pikka> to make more coffee
12:04:19  <Pikka> getting the trading post gung ho is not the point, exporting maximum coffee is!
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12:04:57  <supermop> i am incentivized to build a bunch of trading posts near each other
12:05:18  <Pikka> sounds "realistic" to me
12:05:46  <supermop> and then what the hell do i do with so many supplies?
12:05:57  <andythenorth> profit!
12:05:58  <andythenorth> dunno
12:06:06  <andythenorth> watch them annoyingly build up at stations
12:06:11  <supermop> i guess its fine
12:06:25  <andythenorth> mostly wonder why cdist assigns 5,000 crates to one of the 9 routes you have at a port?
12:06:31  <andythenorth> whilst starving the other routes?
12:06:48  <supermop> i usually can get around that with timetabing
12:06:56  <Pikka> there, ctrl-f5
12:07:01  <andythenorth> you can’t even collect the 5,000 crates because there is a line of trucks waiting for the other routes to be allocated one crate per month
12:07:04  <Pikka> Rfpr all the way
12:07:12  <andythenorth> I would
12:07:13  <andythenorth> nice pink
12:07:18  <supermop> easiest to have each farm take a truck every 10 days or so, then they all get an ok amount
12:07:35  <supermop> but extra crates do tend to lump towards the first connected farm
12:07:38  <andythenorth> only if if cdist assigns it
12:07:51  <andythenorth> Pikka: slag is interesting
12:07:54  <andythenorth> been wondering about that
12:08:05  <supermop> well if no trucks are full load, all of them are stay 10 then leave its ok
12:08:17  <andythenorth> powder ash and kiln cement
12:08:19  <supermop> just dont connect one farm then wait years to do the next
12:08:25  <andythenorth> eh, that is my error
12:08:28  <andythenorth> hmm
12:08:33  <andythenorth> too late now :P
12:08:56  <supermop> it's very deterministic
12:08:58  <Pikka> I went with slag for both because gameplay > realism ;)
12:09:10  <supermop> which is nice in some ways
12:09:17  * andythenorth considers it
12:09:24  <andythenorth> probably will at some point
12:09:36  <andythenorth> 22 industries in TaI?
12:09:47  <supermop> because you can hit the ceiling in a few years or less and then do not need to rework your timetabled network in unpredictable ways later
12:09:56  <Pikka> 21
12:10:04  <Pikka> one of those squares is "town"
12:10:12  <andythenorth> add a few more :)
12:10:13  <supermop> pikka grassland replaces temperate?
12:10:24  <andythenorth> coffee coffee coffee
12:10:34  <andythenorth> brewery?
12:10:41  <Pikka> location info for tropic, supermop
12:10:44  <andythenorth> anything at sea?
12:10:53  <supermop> yeah where's the beer
12:10:58  <Pikka> nothing but oilrigs. and even oilrigs are annoying.
12:11:12  <Pikka> the beer is food from the food processing plant :P
12:11:32  <supermop> anything in rainforest then?
12:11:49  <Pikka> I don't think I differentiate
12:11:58  <Pikka> between grass and rainforest
12:12:44  <andythenorth> space launch platform?
12:12:47  <andythenorth> Kerbal OpenTTD?
12:12:56  <supermop> metabolist floating megacities?
12:13:07  * andythenorth considers a space economy
12:13:16  <andythenorth> Dan and I have been having
.ideas :P
12:13:32  <andythenorth> why have a balanced model of the macro-economy?
12:13:42  <andythenorth> when you could go deep on some specific thing
12:13:50  <andythenorth> maximum nerd
12:14:01  <supermop> balance is no fun
12:14:28  <supermop> speculative home construction based economy
12:15:36  <andythenorth> vegas economy
12:15:46  <andythenorth> accepts: people
12:16:00  <andythenorth> produces: hungover people with no money
12:16:05  <andythenorth> BrisVegas :P
12:16:06  <supermop> citadis c2 just drove over beer can stuck in tracks outside
12:16:15  <supermop> interesting sound
12:18:07  <supermop> mczapkie posts basically what i just said about power plants...
12:18:22  <kamnet> stealing all your good ideas
12:18:45  <kamnet> Andythenorth, what all have you eliminated from FIRS since you started?
12:19:02  <supermop> trash
12:19:22  <supermop> m going to watch some seinfeld
12:19:57  <andythenorth> kamnet: most of it
12:20:05  <andythenorth> boatloads of it
12:20:25  <kamnet> Seinfeld? Man, how quaint.
12:20:35  <kamnet> Anybody seen the new Daredevil series?
12:21:09  <kamnet> What if the next FIRS was all the stuff you threw away from the last FIRS?
12:21:21  <andythenorth> yes that would suck
12:21:33  <supermop> what if seinfeld were modern?
12:22:50  <V453000> XD
12:23:59  <kamnet> Then J Peterman would be dead now
12:24:44  <supermop> laine get ipad
12:26:28  <supermop> old timey brick sheds: slate shingle roof?
12:26:32  <supermop> metal roof?
12:26:39  <kamnet> shingle
12:26:46  <supermop> i just just grey noise in 8b
12:26:52  <supermop> just used
12:27:37  <supermop> what about the terracotta block and concrete? i used the same texture in 8bpp but maybe corrugated makes more sense?
12:28:08  <supermop> could be dark dingy grey corrugated instead of galvanized
12:29:37  <supermop> hard to find textures of these dudes:
12:29:39  <kamnet> sure
12:29:39  <supermop>
12:29:47  <supermop> let alone free tiling ones
12:31:12  <supermop> some brick or tile should pass for it at scale
12:31:46  <supermop> want a free version of this:
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12:35:31  <supermop> oooh i just found 8bpp railtype sprites i made years ago
12:36:25  <supermop> in 2x and 4x zoom
12:36:46  <supermop> now i remember why i decided to nver again do pixel art
12:37:53  <V453000> XD
12:38:26  <supermop> i never even got to the monorail
12:38:47  <supermop> the idea was a full tile of ballast to make yards look less weird
12:39:01  <supermop> i guess these could be used as is
12:39:33  <V453000> show us ! :D
12:39:37  <supermop> they are more dingy that rendered shit though
12:40:27  <supermop> which of my opened ended fruitless topics should i go off topic in by posting these
12:43:54  <planetmaker> I can only offer you those worn bricks, supermop :
12:45:13  <supermop>
12:46:36  <supermop> ok i only need to model and render 56 'buildings' by june to make a 32bpp version in under 5 years
12:47:24  <supermop> that and get help fixing whatever is wrong with the code, and adding code for fences
12:47:40  <supermop> and replace red pavement on brick sheds with grey
12:49:43  <supermop> ..i actually did draw 8bpp monorails too, and foundations...
12:50:30  <supermop> ok sein time
12:50:32  <supermop> later
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16:49:55  <luaduck> does having reload_cfg on mean we can't have random seed generation at map reset time?
16:50:04  <luaduck> our seed has been stuck for a week
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16:50:36  <luaduck> or is this going to be some stupid fix like "set generation_seed to 0"
16:54:41  <planetmaker> luaduck, yes, reload_cfg will reload the cfg - including the random seed stored in it
16:55:05  <luaduck> can that be overridden in any way?
16:55:18  <luaduck> or is disabling reload_cfg the only way
16:56:11  <Rubidium> have you tried removing the seed from the config file?
16:56:34  <Rubidium> i.e. remove the whole line with generation_seed
16:56:39  <luaduck> I get the feeling it'll just write that out though
16:56:53  <luaduck> especially if we ever did a config save
16:57:46  <Rubidium> alternatively use 2**32-1 as seed
17:01:44  <luaduck> that sounds more likely to work
17:02:03  <luaduck> I wasn't aware the seed took arythmatic operators though
17:03:04  <planetmaker> it doesn't. It's just more visible to write 2^32-1 or LONG_MAX than ...
17:03:09  <planetmaker> @calc 2**32-1
17:03:09  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 4294967295
17:03:12  <planetmaker> ^
17:04:19  <glx> else it takes 2 I think
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18:07:36  <andythenorth> cat says ‘woof'
18:07:53  <Alberth> oh dear, some bad mixup
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18:14:09  <ub_umstieg> Hi is there a way ti detect a traffic train jam
18:15:17  <Alberth> turn on negative profit warnings is one way
18:15:24  <ub_umstieg> it is displayed at a yearchage but this is a long time
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18:15:51  <ub_umstieg> Alberth:  in the settings
18:15:53  <Alberth> you can also look at the minimap to check whether all trains seem to be moving
18:16:25  <ub_umstieg> minimap at 2048x2048 is not a good look at
18:16:43  <Alberth> yeah, too big
18:17:08  <ub_umstieg> and profit warning im gone check but maybee spams me up to the ears
18:17:29  <Alberth> trains also throw 'no path to destination' warnings after a while
18:17:46  <Alberth> at least they do with me
18:18:02  <Alberth> but I don't know when they do that exactly
18:18:47  <Alberth> the best solution is to make networks that don't jam, of course :p
18:18:49  <ub_umstieg> this woudt be a good feather to give them a time value in settings throw on 10day stuck for example
18:19:15  <Alberth> they do turn around at some point
18:19:23  <Alberth> but some people have disabled that
18:19:26  <ub_umstieg> Alberth:  agree on that but the map generater offen discard this on to low space
18:20:00  <ub_umstieg> turn around with main route full is the reasen for total jam
18:20:34  <ub_umstieg> only train depo is he jam cleaner
18:20:35  <Alberth> always fun to clean up :)
18:21:23  <Alberth> but it seems that you're no having enough space on the main line then
18:21:33  <ub_umstieg> sometimes its a mess on high load industries in  bvig populated areas
18:22:11  <ub_umstieg> ok im fine THANKS to all that are providing s much fun to me
18:22:33  <ub_umstieg> i play only one game per Humen jear
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18:23:10  <Alberth> I never finish a game :)
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18:34:03  <andythenorth> ‘finish’
18:34:05  <andythenorth> is an odd word
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18:41:52  <andythenorth> hmm
18:41:55  <andythenorth> subclassing twice
18:41:58  <andythenorth> _probably_ ok
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18:54:27  <andythenorth> flat docks anyone? o_O
18:54:32  * andythenorth would draw the sprites
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18:58:18  <Wolf01> o/
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19:00:31  <Alberth> hi hi
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20:00:14  <DanMacK> Hey all
20:00:40  <Alberth> hi hi
20:03:58  <andythenorth> @seen danmack
20:03:58  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 3 minutes and 44 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
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21:10:40  <Wolf01> 'night
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