Log for #openttd on 17th May 2015:
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01:29:16  <supermop> yo
01:29:21  <Pikka> yoyo
02:19:35  <supermop> hows qld pikka
02:19:53  <supermop> had 4 beers from up there last night
02:19:59  <Pikka> lucky you :)
02:20:04  <Pikka> any good?
02:21:44  <supermop> yeah
02:23:34  <supermop> Noisy Minor Red Ale, Newstead Macadamia Amber, Green Beacon Pale, and 4 Hearts Coffee Cream Ale
02:24:07  <supermop> it's good beer week here, and the bar we went to last night was doing all queensland craft breweries
02:24:31  <Pikka> never heard of any of them, they obviously don't sell much locally :)
02:25:00  <supermop> i didnnt see any of them when i was up there either
02:25:31  <supermop> i almost wish they were bottled instead of on tap so i could at least get a look at the labels
02:30:08  <supermop> of f to grab lunch, back later
02:30:48  <Pikka> seeya
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04:20:01  <Pikka> beep beep
04:41:10  <supermop> beep indeed
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05:36:03  <andythenorth> o/
05:36:15  <Pikka> o?
05:50:44  <andythenorth> yes
05:54:59  <Pikka> mmm bus
05:55:07  * Pikka must went
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06:17:39  <andythenorth> moin
06:19:24  <V453000> hyhy
06:19:30  <V453000> 7 growth stages per tree?
06:20:16  <andythenorth> 9
06:21:23  <V453000> wtf
06:21:30  <V453000> cant see the extra 2 ones
06:23:50  <V453000>
06:24:39  <andythenorth> you should do 22
06:24:45  * andythenorth is trolling
06:24:47  <andythenorth> ignore
06:28:40  <supermop> should have model for you today v
06:28:57  <V453000> :)
06:29:15  <V453000> :D andythenorth
06:30:45  <V453000> lol holy fuck it is 500 trees
06:30:50  <V453000> ._.
06:32:03  <V453000> 62 types of them
06:32:22  <V453000> regarding all climatez ofc
06:34:06  <andythenorth> hmm
06:34:26  <andythenorth> nmlc spends a *lot* of time on FIRS spritelayouts
06:34:47  <andythenorth> for a 70s compile, deleting most of the spritelayout conditional stuff removes 30s
06:35:08  <V453000> :D 70s compile? :D
06:35:57  <andythenorth> slow eh?
06:36:04  <andythenorth> should be about 20s
06:36:15  <V453000> .........
06:36:39  <V453000> I would understand you to want a decrease if it took 20 minutes
06:37:13  <andythenorth> any more than about 9s, I have to start watching a YT video
06:37:21  <andythenorth> so that makes coding very slow, because then I’m watching YT
06:38:04  <V453000> LOL
06:38:23  <V453000> draw pixels while waiting :P
06:38:54  <V453000> since my compile takes like 15+ minutes on all bigger projects, I can return to doing models and come back in a while
06:39:01  <V453000> itWorks
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06:48:25  <andythenorth> this single childsprite takes ~3s to render
06:48:30  <andythenorth> there are 4 of these just for ground tiles
06:49:19  <andythenorth> ~65% of the FIRS compile time is in childsprite expressions
06:49:25  <andythenorth> that’s bonkers :O
06:50:49  <V453000> ...
06:51:14  <V453000> do you want to do some little coding for YETI or CATS Adaptive Train Stations?
06:51:23  <V453000> you know, to do something useful? :D :P
06:51:37  <andythenorth> faster is better :P
06:51:42  <andythenorth> think of the time I’ll save
06:51:44  <andythenorth> o_O
06:51:51  <Supercheese> Internet's being dreadfully slow tonight
06:52:26  <V453000> :D
06:52:44  <V453000> I cant think of the time you save since I do not know how long videos on YT you watch );
06:53:27  <andythenorth>             hide_sprite: (climate != CLIMATE_TROPIC) || ((climate == CLIMATE_TROPIC) && (nearby_tile_terrain_type(0, 0) == TILETYPE_DESERT)) || ((climate == CLIMATE_TROPIC) && (nearby_tile_terrain_type(0, 0) == TILETYPE_NORMAL) && ((nearby_tile_terrain_type( 1, 0) != TILETYPE_DESERT) && (nearby_tile_terrain_type(-1, 0) != TILETYPE_DESERT) && (nearby_tile_terrain_type( 0, 1) != TILETYPE_DESERT) && (nearby_tile_terrain_typ
06:53:28  <andythenorth> 0,-1) != TILETYPE_DESERT) ) );
06:53:31  <andythenorth> why?
06:55:38  <andythenorth> just that expression for just one spriteset is 3s
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07:00:25  <Alberth> NML makes a lot of copies of expression trees, for some reason
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07:04:31  <Alberth> it's not entirely optimal    has (climate == CLIMATE_TROPIC)  twice
07:04:45  <Alberth> not sure if that would fix anything tbh
07:16:17  <andythenorth> good spot though
07:19:22  * andythenorth wonders if hide_sprite can use LOAD_TEMP()
07:20:45  <andythenorth> it would be handy if OpenTTD had a convenience method to return the correct ground sprite to newgrf :P
07:21:06  <andythenorth> my guess is that a a good number of newgrfs spend a lot of effort on figuring out ground sprites
07:23:07  <V453000> you mean the shape of the ground sprite?
07:24:04  <andythenorth> and the correct tile to use
07:24:25  <andythenorth> hey, nml docs even has an example for LOAD_TEMP
07:24:26  <andythenorth>
07:24:54  <andythenorth> I would be surprised if that was slower than FIRS approach :)
07:31:27  <andythenorth> if that works it will save 10s I reckon
07:31:45  <andythenorth> and it drops 4 childsprites, so smaller output
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07:38:42  <andythenorth> hey, maybe a FIRS compile will be < 1 min if this works :)
07:38:59  * andythenorth tested it with hax
07:42:01  <Alberth> is || left -> right ?
07:42:40  <Alberth> if it preserves order, the (climate == CLIMATE_TROPIC) is completely useless, as it is implied by failing (climate != CLIMATE_TROPIC)
07:44:24  <Alberth> hmm, and you don't even need order preservation for that
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07:44:44  * andythenorth is no good at boolean maths :)
07:45:22  <andythenorth> the check should be done once in a switch, with STORE_TEMP on the result
07:45:27  <andythenorth> the example in the nml docs is quite nice
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07:46:17  <andythenorth> hey, this problem is Eddi|zuHause-shaped :)
07:47:03  <Alberth> nml isn't very well designed in its syntax
07:48:03  <andythenorth>
07:48:36  <andythenorth> ^ the offending template :)
07:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> not in the morning.
08:08:12  <Alberth> we'll wait 2 hours :p
08:08:53  * andythenorth has childrens’ parties to go to, so will wait some hours more
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08:22:27  <Alberth> andythenorth: for your template, the "climate == CLIMATE_ARCTIC" is redundant at lines 41, 48, 55
08:22:57  <Alberth> line 20 has the same structure, except the climate literal is different
08:24:07  <Alberth> line 27 can be simplified in the same way, if you add parentheses around the latter 2 alternatives of the ||
08:25:43  <Alberth> the idea is as follows:   you have   (A || ( ( not A) && B) )
08:26:16  <Alberth> euhm  ( (not A) || ( A && B ) )  is perhaps easier
08:26:36  <Alberth> which is the same as ( ( not A) || B )
08:27:31  <andythenorth> ta
08:27:40  <andythenorth> this can be applied when I move the checks to a switch
08:27:52  <Alberth> in A && B,    if B is true, but A  is not,  A && B will fail.  but your || alternative is (not A), which is true, no matter what B is
08:28:05  <andythenorth> the same logic is needed, but should be expanded once, in a switch, not repetitively in hide_sprite
08:29:15  <Alberth> so the change is that the case A=false and B=true  can be derived as 'true' in 1 way in your expression, and in 2 ways in the shorter expression
08:30:40  <andythenorth> fun with boolean
08:31:07  <Alberth> booleans are surprisingly complicated :)
08:34:08  * andythenorth will try the switch conversion later
08:34:11  <andythenorth> bbl
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09:37:39  <TrueBrain> always fun to open up your public_html folder, and find all these fun little patches :D
09:37:54  <TrueBrain> WT3 live patch .. where you receive translations live from WT3, instead of from your local folder :P
09:38:21  <TrueBrain> GS addition to ask all players questions and gather their answers ..
09:41:25  <Xaroth|Work> heh
09:41:27  <Xaroth|Work> poll: is TrueBrain crazy
09:41:33  <Xaroth|Work> results: 101%: yes, 0% no
09:41:56  <TrueBrain> :(
09:41:57  <TrueBrain> so much hate!
09:42:08  <Xaroth|Work> hate?
09:42:09  <Xaroth|Work> truth! :P
09:42:53  <TrueBrain> but truth hurts
09:43:01  <Xaroth|Work> so does a train
09:43:23  <TrueBrain> a train hurts you when you get in?
09:43:24  <TrueBrain> sounds horrible
09:43:35  <Xaroth|Work> depends on your method of entry
09:43:39  <Xaroth|Work> full frontal.. quite much so
09:44:16  <TrueBrain> that is not entry
09:44:20  <TrueBrain> well, it mgiht, if the windshield bursts
09:44:22  <TrueBrain> but no
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10:08:20  <andythenorth_> Phone irc
10:08:24  <andythenorth_> How rare
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10:21:05  <Wolf01> hi hi
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12:54:33  <andythenorth> ho
12:54:48  <andythenorth> so I *do* need to take care about the slots used for PAX and Mail :D
12:55:39  <andythenorth> also food in tropic and arctic
12:57:19  <andythenorth> the specs for nfo and nml somewhat imply that without stating it explicitly
13:13:10  <Alberth> naughty specs :p
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13:27:50  <andythenorth> default houses accepting cargos by fixed slot is expected yes?
13:46:01  <Alberth> apparently, but not nice, imho
13:47:07  <Alberth> it defeats the idea of cargo labels somewhat, imho
13:50:29  <andythenorth> maybe we fix it for 2.0? o_O
13:50:32  <andythenorth> 2.0 all the things
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15:03:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the least thing it needs to be fixed is a sensible definition of what cargo will be accepted if GOOD/FOOD/... is not available. nothing? a random other cargo with the right town effect?
15:04:40  <Eddi|zuHause> or just listen on town effect and ignore cargo label? so houses that now accept food accept any TE_FOOD cargo?
15:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that may change a lot of current behaviour (e.g. tourists)
15:12:55  <andythenorth> is that desirable?
15:12:58  <andythenorth> or should I just fix FIRS?
15:13:16  <andythenorth> is FIRS non-compliant with spec w.r.t cargo slots?
15:25:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
15:32:57  <TrueBrain> owh, the joys of MSVC ... memmove already defined in LIBCMTD.lib
15:33:01  <TrueBrain> right ...
15:33:39  * andythenorth will just fix FIRS
15:34:25  <andythenorth> so pax must be 0, mail must be 2
15:34:40  <andythenorth> food must be 11
15:35:27  <andythenorth> custom list-splice :P
15:36:41  <TrueBrain> and now I have unresolved external symbols .. grr
15:37:08  <TrueBrain> who decided to make this so complicated :(
15:40:57  <TrueBrain> ah, it helps if both projects are Debug, not a mix of Debug/Release :D
15:41:01  <TrueBrain> *whistles slowly*
15:42:00  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think goods was special as well
15:42:38  <andythenorth> plausible
15:42:50  * andythenorth distracted by Fractional-Reserve Banking
15:42:53  <andythenorth> which is very interestin
15:42:57  <andythenorth> interesting *
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15:45:08  <andythenorth> money does not work like I was taught it does
15:46:01  <TrueBrain> grr, debug/debug doesnt work either; how hard is it to add library to OpenTTD :(
15:47:47  <TrueBrain> with randomly disabling stuff it works, but still my library functions arent found
15:47:49  <TrueBrain> grrrr
15:50:35  <andythenorth> hmm
15:54:06  <andythenorth> enforce required cargo order manually in each of these lists?
15:54:24  <andythenorth> or write some horrible magic to detect certain cargos and magically rewrite the list, with magic
15:54:28  <andythenorth> ?
15:55:21  <TrueBrain> omg ... cdecl vs fastdecl ..
15:55:24  <TrueBrain> :(
15:55:32  <TrueBrain> andy: "horrible" .. stopped reading after that :P
15:58:06  <TrueBrain> wow ... OpenTTD (in debug mode) is really unresponsive when you click content :P
15:59:26  <andythenorth> content?
15:59:32  <TrueBrain> online content bla thingy
15:59:38  <TrueBrain> the list is too long or something
16:00:34  <TrueBrain> I remember the time the list was nice and small :P
16:00:42  <michi_cc> TrueBrain: It resorts the content list constantly or something like at and for some reason the sort is very slow in Debug mode. Could never be bothered to find out just why exactly the slowness occurs (I mean, it's totally fine in Release, so...).
16:01:17  <TrueBrain> hehe; fair enough :)
16:02:04  <TrueBrain> I now just have to add a filter quickly
16:02:35  <TrueBrain> awh, my TLS handshake fails :(
16:03:28  <michi_cc> First guess would be to some algorithmic interaction when the list is already perfectly sorted for which Release has some shortcut or so. OTTD could probably cut down on the sorting as well.
16:03:51  <TrueBrain> even with filter it is really really slow :P
16:04:02  <TrueBrain> but once downloaded, it is fast enough
16:04:06  <TrueBrain> meh
16:04:07  <TrueBrain> what-ever :)
16:05:52  <TrueBrain> owh, lolz ... handshake over port 80
16:05:54  <TrueBrain> hahahaha
16:05:58  <TrueBrain> *failwhale*
16:28:38  <TrueBrain> major version mismatch :(
16:28:41  <TrueBrain> TLS doesnt love me :(
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16:38:41  <TrueBrain> lolz; this TLS library doesnt check if the received msgtype of the handshake is what he expected
16:38:44  <TrueBrain> he just blindly assumes it is :P
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17:05:15  <TrueBrain> yippie, https connection with the openttd client \o/
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17:17:08  <Eddi|zuHause> gesundheit.
17:24:28  <TrueBrain> you are weird!
17:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you like me.
17:25:06  <TrueBrain> yup
17:27:02  <andythenorth> anybody spot the my mistake here?
17:27:04  <andythenorth> mandatory_numeric_ids = {'PASS': 0, 'MAIL': 2, 'GOODS': 5, 'FOOD': 11}
17:27:40  <TrueBrain> everything is 4 letters, except GOODS? *guessing randomly* :P
17:27:53  <andythenorth> you score 1 point
17:27:59  <TrueBrain> \o/
17:28:02  <andythenorth> any others?
17:28:43  <TrueBrain> the ids are not numeric :P
17:28:45  <andythenorth> otherwise TrueBrain is winner
17:30:56  * andythenorth announces: Truebrain is winner
17:31:00  <TrueBrain> \o/
17:31:03  <TrueBrain> WHAT DID I WIN?!?!
17:31:48  <michi_cc> Zwei SchlÀge weniger.
17:31:55  <andythenorth> exactly
17:37:04  <TrueBrain> lolz, connecter is a valid english word?
17:37:07  <TrueBrain> always thought it was a typo
17:38:15  <Eddi|zuHause> english is weird sometimes. most of the times.
17:38:56  <andythenorth> I’d have had connector
17:38:58  <andythenorth> but eh
17:39:10  <andythenorth> the language is somewhat bendy
17:40:21  <Rubidium> why?
17:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause> "Paul Dennis, who stood for the Trade Union and Socialist Coalition in Rainham North, Kent, insisted the result [0 votes for him] was wrong because he had “definitely” voted for himself."
17:40:36  <Rubidium> isn't connecter someone that connects, live a employer is someone that employs
17:41:06  <Rubidium> likewise I'd reckon connectee would be valid as well, as the party that is connected to
17:41:27  <Rubidium> like an employee is someone that's employed
17:41:31  <TrueBrain> connecter and connector are both valid, meaning the same thing ;)
17:41:44  <TrueBrain> connecter gives 170M hits on google, connector 180M
17:41:49  <TrueBrain> seems the world is divided :P
17:42:02  <TrueBrain> connecter is more often refered to from french thou
17:42:23  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes the world divides along weird lines
17:43:15  <Rubidium> I'd not use google to say anything about how common some word is in a particular language
17:46:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen people use google in that way. i don't think it's a particularly strong argument
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17:49:08  <andythenorth> quak
17:49:22  <TrueBrain> joyful, our generate script fails if you have a space in your directory path under windows :D
17:49:25  <Rubidium> in any case, trunk has 120 connecters (grep -Ri connecter) and 0 connectors
17:49:28  <frosch123> hoi
17:49:28  <TrueBrain> *adds a few "*
17:50:05  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: doesnt make it a valid english word ;) But I am surprised it really is .. it sounds wrong/weird
17:50:09  <TrueBrain> connecter .. I would always write connector
17:50:16  <TrueBrain> I am happy they are identical :D
17:50:36  <andythenorth> frosch123: it has been a busy day.  TrueBrain is shaking hands with everyone, and I broke towns.
17:53:17  <frosch123> so truebrain has a flu now, and i should avoid him?
17:53:27  <TrueBrain> shouldnt you always?
17:53:47  <andythenorth> can anyone edit the newgrf wiki?
17:54:01  * andythenorth wonders about updating the stuff on cargo IDs, but is banned from wiki
17:54:08  <TrueBrain> what did you do?
17:54:12  <andythenorth> dunno
17:54:20  <frosch123> he used a password with spaces or something
17:54:22  <andythenorth> changed my forum password, seems the most likely cause
17:54:53  <andythenorth> does wiki keep the hash locally, or is it oauth or such?
17:55:00  <TrueBrain> which wiki?
17:55:08  <andythenorth>
17:59:15  <TrueBrain> no clue how that one works :(
17:59:50  <andythenorth> nvm :)
18:00:09  <andythenorth> I was considering a note that PASS, MAIL, GOOD, FOOD need specific cargo slots
18:00:12  <andythenorth> but eh :)
18:01:24  <TrueBrain> ffs, this generate script is annoying me :P
18:01:47  <andythenorth> I learnt a new acronym this week
18:01:48  <andythenorth> FTFF
18:01:55  <TrueBrain> fuck the fucking fuck?
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18:02:06  <andythenorth> fucking thing’s fucking fucked
18:02:10  <andythenorth> but yours will do
18:02:20  <TrueBrain> IFS='
18:02:21  <TrueBrain> '
18:02:23  <TrueBrain> saves the day ...
18:04:01  <V453000> ofak
18:04:08  <TrueBrain> no: owh, fuck
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18:19:20  <andythenorth> so why is this checking neighbouring tiles? :o
18:19:21  <andythenorth>             hide_sprite: (climate != CLIMATE_TROPIC) || ((climate == CLIMATE_TROPIC) && (nearby_tile_terrain_type(0, 0) == TILETYPE_DESERT)) || ((climate == CLIMATE_TROPIC) && (nearby_tile_terrain_type(0, 0) == TILETYPE_NORMAL) && ((nearby_tile_terrain_type( 1, 0) != TILETYPE_DESERT) && (nearby_tile_terrain_type(-1, 0) != TILETYPE_DESERT) && (nearby_tile_terrain_type( 0, 1) != TILETYPE_DESERT) && (nearby_tile_terrain_typ
18:19:22  <andythenorth> 0,-1) != TILETYPE_DESERT) ) );
18:19:26  <frosch123> michi_cc: TrueBrain: the slowness in the content gui in debug mode is caused by the md5sum computation of the scenarios/savegames
18:19:32  <andythenorth> sprite is GROUNDSPRITE_DESERT_1_2
18:19:52  <frosch123> that's why it hangs after the basesets, but only when opening content gui for the first time
18:21:42  <frosch123> andythenorth: half desert
18:22:06  * andythenorth wonders how much it matters that FIRS does these terrain checks
18:22:25  <frosch123> we have no built-in methods for useful stuff :p
18:22:36  <TrueBrain> frosch123: it only does that in debug mode, or?
18:22:44  <andythenorth> they’re incredibly slow to expand
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18:23:18  <frosch123> TrueBrain: no, but apparently md5sum computation benefits a lot from -O2
18:23:21  <michi_cc> frosch123: That might be something else. It's definitely slow until all results have been received, and not just the first time. Randomly inspected call stacks almost always end somewhere below the list sort for me.
18:23:23  <andythenorth> 65% of FIRS compile time is spent on spritelayout expansion
18:24:07  <andythenorth> some of which is redundant
18:24:21  <andythenorth> showing correct terrain at most industries is useless, because they provide a ground tile
18:24:29  <michi_cc> frosch123: More specifically, in the sorting function, which does two GetString()'s, which use a std::stack for argument expansion. And STL classes/iterators have a lot of extra debug stuff in MSVC Debug mode than is skiped in Release.
18:25:45  <andythenorth> even where terrain is shown, the results are dubious
18:25:50  <andythenorth> animals grazing on desert
18:26:47  <frosch123> ok, so there are multiple things that make it slow :)
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18:29:49  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> so why is this checking neighbouring tiles? :o <- desert/grass transition tiles?
18:30:00  <andythenorth> seems to be
18:31:01  <andythenorth> wondering if there’s a better solution by design
18:32:01  <andythenorth> i.e. don’t show terrain at industries
18:32:14  <andythenorth> thereby eliminating the issue
18:33:23  <Eddi|zuHause> it can probably be simplified by clever ue of don't-cares
18:33:43  <andythenorth> suggest some?
18:33:47  <andythenorth> my options currently are:
18:34:23  <andythenorth> 1. rewrite to switches and temp registers, not spritelayout expressions (provably faster in tests so far), keeping all the current fine-grained checks
18:34:29  <andythenorth> 2. as 1, but drop some checks
18:34:37  <andythenorth> 3. don’t show terrain at any industry
18:34:51  <andythenorth> 4. show terrain at some industries, special-cased using 1 or 2
18:35:02  <andythenorth> 4 would be the fastest compile, but also most complicated
18:35:21  <andythenorth> actually 3 would be fastest, but eh, loss of features
18:35:56  <Johnnei> about compile times, ever tried compiling firefox? xD
18:36:46  <Johnnei> Was quite suprised how quickly openttd compiled after having compiled firefox for the first time
18:37:44  <andythenorth> @calc 6 * 65
18:37:44  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 390
18:38:04  <andythenorth> @calc 6 * 56
18:38:04  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 336
18:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine firefox has an order of magnitude more code than openttd
18:38:17  <andythenorth> currently FIRS has to expand 390 expressions for terrain sprite
18:38:24  <andythenorth> of those 336 are pointless
18:38:42  <andythenorth> and the remainder are ‘needed’, but the results look bad in snow or desert
18:38:57  <andythenorth> this isn’t meaningless optimisation either, it’s 10s or 15s of a compile
18:39:05  <andythenorth> on a 70-80s compile
18:39:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Johnnei: but for andytheimpatient, anything that is not instant is too long.
18:39:23  <andythenorth> agreed
18:39:31  <Johnnei> true dat xD
18:39:37  <andythenorth> OpenTTD compiles faster than FIRS :P
18:39:43  <Johnnei> I actually considered stopping the build after it was churning away for an hour e.e
18:40:12  <andythenorth> try updating your ports tree, or even just building GCC from scratch :P
18:40:19  <andythenorth> both slooooooow
18:40:21  <Johnnei> Got to love incremental builds, would be straight up pain to compile for nearly 2 hours for every little damn change
18:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> wine bisecting was annoying enough
18:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause> in the initial big steps of a bisection, there are too many changes to do things "incrementally"
18:42:06  <Johnnei> hehe, I let visual studio take care of figurig out how to make it incremental :p
18:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Johnnei: it does that the same way any other system does it: "has this file been changed since the last compile?"
18:43:32  <Johnnei> with the added restriction: ow we can multithread it anymore
18:43:43  <andythenorth> can the FIRS farms just use a tile from the default farm fields?
18:43:44  <Johnnei> can't*
18:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Johnnei: but if you jump between releases, practically every file changed anyway
18:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you mean for the industry or for the random fields?
18:44:48  <Johnnei> Or atleast the files which take the longest to compile :p
18:45:13  <andythenorth> for the fields where the animals are
18:45:16  * andythenorth finds screenshots
18:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause> the what?
18:46:04  <andythenorth>
18:46:08  <andythenorth> and such
18:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause> weren't you just working on getting rid of default base set tiles before?
18:50:19  <andythenorth> well
18:50:25  <TrueBrain> cannot convert parameter 1 from 'ssl_context *' to 'ssl_context *'
18:50:27  <TrueBrain> go figure
18:50:36  <andythenorth> default base set tiles are fine if constant in all terrain
18:50:51  <andythenorth> it’s terrain-specific base set tiles that are tedious
18:51:22  <michi_cc> Bah, now you made me actually look ar it :p
18:52:12  <michi_cc> frosch123, TrueBrain:
18:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and how is a farm not terrain specific?
18:52:45  <TrueBrain> that resolves the issue of being slow?
18:53:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: dunno, can cows eat snow? Do sheep eat sand? :)
18:53:56  <michi_cc> Mostly, yes. There might still be the MD5 stuff frosch mentioned, but the window now feels almost like in Release.
18:54:19  <michi_cc> Just try it? ;)
18:54:36  <__ln__>
18:54:41  <TrueBrain> I am neck-deep in TLS stuff :P WIll try it when it compiles :D
18:57:30  <andythenorth>
18:57:35  <andythenorth> daft eh?
18:58:22  <andythenorth> the only industry that currently validly has terrain-specific ground tile is the forest
18:58:31  <andythenorth> and that uses a different template, for legacy migration reasons :P
18:58:35  <TrueBrain> bah; it is hard to get all the callbacks etc right and clean ..
18:58:49  <TrueBrain> every time I think I have something decent ... I found a big gaping hole in the idea :P
18:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: one would imagine the sheep are inside during the winter...
18:59:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: (and the barn door closed)
19:00:13  <andythenorth> so I could make use of the existing snow / not snow split to handle that
19:00:35  <andythenorth> just delete the sheep from the snow sprite...
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19:01:35  <frosch123> just make the sheep snow coloured
19:02:58  <andythenorth> this is true
19:03:13  <andythenorth>
19:03:18  <frosch123> michi_cc: s/if/of/, but nice otherwise :)
19:03:43  <andythenorth> hmm
19:03:46  <Alberth> perhaps add a check for minimal ottd version, andy?
19:04:02  <michi_cc> Noted.
19:04:08  <V453000> LOL snow camo for sheep
19:04:10  <V453000> hi dudes btw
19:04:19  <Alberth> hi V
19:04:35  <andythenorth>
19:04:41  <andythenorth> could just update that?
19:05:23  <Alberth> looks like it
19:05:27  <andythenorth> it’s funny being the guardian of a codebase I didn’t write
19:05:31  <andythenorth> I guess that’s common enough
19:05:41  <andythenorth> I have no idea about a lot of FIRS
19:06:15  <V453000> XD
19:06:16  <Alberth> you didn't encounter everything while changing templates?
19:06:46  <andythenorth> I don’t read most of it
19:06:51  <andythenorth> change, run make
19:06:55  <andythenorth> if it doesn’t break, commit
19:07:23  <Alberth> :)
19:07:32  <andythenorth> regression tests would be a luxury :P
19:09:38  <andythenorth> so I could *immediately* speed up FIRS by only checking terrain at the 9 industries that need to
19:09:45  <andythenorth> and not the 56 that don’t :P
19:10:01  * andythenorth does that
19:10:27  <andythenorth> rewriting the expressions to use temp registers would be useful
19:10:34  <andythenorth> but I am not good enough at boolean logic
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19:15:12  <andythenorth> is there a reason (other than just work) that we newgrf can’t delegate the ground tile choice to OpenTTD?
19:15:18  <andythenorth> -we
19:16:52  <TrueBrain> in their sourcecode it reads: typedef struct { .. } bla;
19:17:01  <frosch123> not really, for water tiles we even do it
19:17:06  <TrueBrain> now I want to forward declare bla, as I am only going to use it as a pointer, and dont want to include the header all the time
19:17:09  <frosch123> main problem are slopes/foundations
19:17:09  <TrueBrain> struct bla; fails
19:17:17  <TrueBrain> what should it be? :D
19:17:27  <andythenorth> slopes / foundations are also a problem in FIRS spritelayouts afaict :P
19:17:34  <andythenorth> seem to be special cased
19:17:56  <Johnnei> conclusion: remove slopes/foundations
19:18:08  <frosch123> TrueBrain: struct bla; typedef struct bla;
19:18:17  <Alberth> TrueBrain: it's an anonymous struct, with a var named 'bla'
19:18:29  <andythenorth> could we add ground tile delegation?
19:18:45  <TrueBrain> Alberth: I know, that is my issue :P
19:18:46  * andythenorth wouldn’t ask, except FIRS already is pinned to nightly OpenTTD
19:18:49  <TrueBrain> frosch123: doesnt work :(
19:18:53  <andythenorth> due to industry count increase
19:19:00  <andythenorth> so now would be a good time
19:19:01  <frosch123> hmm, maybe, struct bla; typedef struct bla bla;
19:19:15  <Alberth> in c++ ?? :)
19:19:18  <frosch123> anyway, c has separate name spaces for "structs" and "typedefs"
19:19:24  <TrueBrain> frosch123: redefinition issues :(
19:19:36  <TrueBrain> strongly considering just casting it to void* :P
19:19:50  <Alberth> afaik you cannot refer to anonymous structs, as... they are anonymous
19:21:29  <Johnnei> Surely the NSA can ;)
19:21:40  <TrueBrain> random noise is random
19:22:55  <andythenorth> hmm
19:23:31  <andythenorth> newgrf would declare a special sprite number to get correct climate-dependent ground tile?
19:23:40  <andythenorth> or ottd would just always draw the terrain?
19:24:19  <TrueBrain> hiding globals in classes like a bozzz
19:24:35  <Alberth> TrueBrain: I wonder if you can make another anonymous struct with the same content and use that as type
19:24:37  <frosch123> andythenorth: when a newgrf draws a plain water ground tile, ottd sometimes adds canal/river dikes
19:24:50  <TrueBrain> Alberth: possibly; but in there are other anonymous structs ....
19:24:53  <frosch123> the same happens for railtypes
19:24:59  <frosch123> station draws a plain rail ground tile
19:25:05  <andythenorth> my preferred interface would be to declare GROUNDSPRITE_NORMAL
19:25:10  <andythenorth> and get the correct sprite
19:25:13  <andythenorth> but that may have issues
19:25:14  <frosch123> ottd draws plain ground tile + railtype overlay instead
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19:25:36  <frosch123> so, essetially we need a special sprite number for "draw standard ground sprite"
19:25:47  <TrueBrain> oeh, it compiles; lets ship it!
19:25:56  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: what could go wrong?
19:25:58  <frosch123> but we need some slope information, possibly via
19:26:01  * andythenorth never tests commits any more
19:26:03  <andythenorth> :P
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19:26:09  <andythenorth> as the forums have recently shown
19:26:35  <mczapkie> Good Evening
19:26:42  <Alberth> evenink
19:26:49  <TrueBrain> @base 10 16 78
19:26:49  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 4E
19:29:02  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: what strikes me as odd about this article is that they say they factored out 231. which is not prime. and has 3 as prime factor. which would be a trivial check for the original number.
19:31:09  <andythenorth> frosch123: we need slope information because...? o_O
19:31:48  <frosch123> you need at least "orignal slope"/"flat foundation"
19:32:04  <TrueBrain> if (err != ABC && err == DEF)
19:32:11  <TrueBrain> right ... lets stop with the insanity? :D
19:32:21  <andythenorth> hmm
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19:32:28  <andythenorth> yes, that would be convenient
19:32:42  <andythenorth> although industry can sort the foundations out explicitly
19:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: for the off-chance that ABC == DEF?
19:33:19  <TrueBrain> even then ... :P
19:40:32  <TrueBrain> meh; I need to access callback from a child in the initializer of a parent ..
19:40:36  <TrueBrain> that is not going to happen :(
19:42:39  * mczapkie is afk for a while
19:42:50  <TrueBrain> thank you for letting us know
19:42:53  <TrueBrain> I feel much better now :P
19:49:40  <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r27288 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2015-05-17 21:49:35 +0200 )
19:49:41  <DorpsGek> -Fix: Slow network content GUI in MSVC Debug builds due to repeated string resolving.
19:49:49  <TrueBrain> \o/
19:49:59  <andythenorth> hmm
19:50:11  <andythenorth> I’m not sure that any more than GROUNDSPRITE_NORMAL is needed
19:50:53  <andythenorth> not great results in desert though
19:53:09  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: it is still slow, but at least less slow :D
19:56:20  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: i wondered about that too, but perhaps factors in RSA terminology are the products of two primes or something like that. dunno, i don't know how RSA works.
19:57:26  <frosch123> mczapkie: andythenorth: industry ids are always local
19:57:42  <frosch123> there is no need to "reserve" any ids
19:57:46  <andythenorth> figures
19:57:48  <frosch123> that issue only exists for cargo ids
19:57:50  <andythenorth> how handy
19:58:28  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: ideally, RSA keys are made up out of two prime factors, which both are about equally long. so a factor of 3 should never ever happen
20:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: these two prime factors constitute the private key, while the product is part of the public key. the theory is that factorization is too expensive to do, which makes the concept "safe"
20:00:21  <TrueBrain> oh-oh :(
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20:01:48  <frosch123> valgrind! :)
20:02:14  <TrueBrain> I dont really get why tbh .. it happens on error in ctor
20:02:15  <TrueBrain> but .. hmm
20:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: things become unsafe if one of the factors is very small (like 231, when it's supposed to be a 4000 bit number), or when it's not a prime number at all (which makes the prime factors even smaller)
20:02:54  <frosch123> TrueBrain: usually a duplicate free earlier
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20:06:18  <TrueBrain> cant seem to figure out what causes it; owh well, lets first continue on with the happy-flow :)
20:06:50  <frosch123> that's what valgrind is for :p
20:06:56  <TrueBrain> stuck at Windows atm
20:07:12  <frosch123> ok, that sucks :)
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20:08:51  <TrueBrain> ah, w00ps, yes, that will fail horribly ...
20:08:58  <TrueBrain> using an instance member as int :D
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20:12:26  <TrueBrain> and a double free \o/ :D
20:13:13  <TrueBrain> every time I think: well, that should fix it, it still breaks at the same place :P
20:15:06  <andythenorth> FIRS now compiles 10-15s faster, for no loss of features :D
20:15:39  <andythenorth> @calc 56 / 71
20:15:39  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.788732394366
20:15:45  *** tokai|mdlx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:16:35  <andythenorth> is that 22% faster?  I can’t do decrementing % :P
20:16:59  <andythenorth> @calc 15 / 71
20:16:59  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.211267605634
20:17:25  <TrueBrain> recv() says the connection was aborted
20:17:27  <TrueBrain> :(
20:17:48  <TrueBrain> and gz andy :)
20:19:25  <TrueBrain> ah, port 80 .. why 80 .. you should be on 443 :(
20:23:06  <mczapkie> frosch123, thanks for info, I thougt that industry are allocated globally
20:24:19  <mczapkie> BTW, is TOWNGROWTH_FOOD flag possible for only one cargo?
20:24:32  <frosch123> no
20:24:42  <frosch123> but iirc the gui only display one
20:25:31  <frosch123> there is some "town effect multiplier" which says how much a cargo counts for some effect
20:25:45  <frosch123> so some cargos can be more foody than others :)
20:26:39  <mczapkie> I dont understand this town effect mutliplier, what if is set to 0? (in opengfx+ industries it is 0 for goods and food)
20:26:57  <frosch123> 0 probably disables it :p
20:27:50  <mczapkie> no, it is working (food is needed in winter)
20:28:07  <frosch123> yes, but does it actually count the food when delivered?
20:28:19  <mczapkie> probably it is triggering possibility of growth, but not count to growth itself
20:28:35  <frosch123> because 0 would mean that x cargo delivered contributes 0*x=0 to the town
20:29:04  <mczapkie> but what about goods - are goods increasing growth of town by default?
20:29:08  <andythenorth> no
20:29:10  <TrueBrain> grr @ MSVC .. didnt ecompile the correct files when I changed an header :(
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20:29:31  <frosch123> by default only food and water have such effects
20:29:36  <frosch123> game scripts are more fancy
20:30:24  <mczapkie> it is strange, why goods are not helping growth, but personally I'm usually using GS's
20:35:25  <mczapkie> does anybody know, how to correctly initialize dev.openddtcoop repo and push without user/pasword and "authorization failed" response?
20:35:52  <frosch123> for a new project?
20:35:56  <mczapkie> yes
20:36:10  <mczapkie> I have .hgrc ile with user = hg
20:36:32  <mczapkie> .hg/hgrc
20:36:34  <frosch123> it creates repository automatically 7 minutes after project setup
20:36:59  <mczapkie> yes, I see the repo (I created project yestarday)
20:37:06  <frosch123> then clone it
20:37:29  <frosch123> or push to it, if you already have local commits
20:37:46  <mczapkie> I see, this way, thanks
20:38:00  <mczapkie> not by hg init
20:40:41  <mczapkie> still asking about user/passwd
20:40:58  <frosch123> use the same .hgrc as for other projects
20:41:04  <frosch123> just replace the projectname in the url
20:41:14  <mczapkie> wait, wrong address, https instead of hg
20:41:26  <frosch123> you need ssh :)
20:41:50  * andythenorth is running out of ‘go faster’ in FIRS :)
20:42:00  <andythenorth> it’s now < 1 min with primed cache
20:43:22  <mczapkie> works no fine, thanks
20:43:27  <mczapkie> no = now
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20:50:21  <TrueBrain> frosch123: 30 minutes later ... it was a used after free :P
20:50:31  <TrueBrain> a higher layer did free of host, and then I used host ..
20:50:35  <TrueBrain> giving me GARBAGE :P
20:51:23  <glx> you look like a beginner :)
20:52:17  <TrueBrain> luckily it is only the looks ;)
20:52:30  <frosch123> glx: it's his first life
20:53:02  <TrueBrain> it works \o/
20:54:16  <andythenorth> hmm, there must be a better way to do date sensitive sprites
20:54:43  <andythenorth> I gain 5-10s by dropping the hide_sprite expressions for just 4 building declarations
20:54:54  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: are you sure?
20:55:59  <TrueBrain> <- w00p! You will need polarssl library (and add them to the linker) if you want to test it, but meh; code is there :D
20:56:15  <TrueBrain> much less code than I expected :)
20:57:10  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: and how trustworthy is polarssl, compared to, say, openssl? :p
20:57:27  <TrueBrain> source code in github
20:57:33  <TrueBrain> so that is already a factor 2 :P
20:57:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not really an answer :p
20:57:50  <TrueBrain> there is no answer
20:58:16  <TrueBrain> but it is used by things like OpenVPN, nginx, powerdns, ..
20:58:20  <TrueBrain> so it is good enough for me :P
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20:58:56  <TrueBrain> and the current patch has certificate validation disabled, so ... what can I say :P
21:00:50  <andythenorth> there must be a more elegant way to do this
21:00:52  <andythenorth> hide_sprite: (construction_state != 3) || (terrain_type != TILETYPE_SNOW) || (current_year + 5 * LOAD_TEMP(0) / 0x10000) < 1920 || (current_year + 5 * LOAD_TEMP(0) / 0x10000) >= 1945;
21:00:56  <frosch123> do you want to ship ottd's certificaste with stable releases? :p
21:01:19  <TrueBrain> <- that is what I currently have in mind
21:01:39  <TrueBrain> if anyone has a better suggestion how to do this, I would love to hear it
21:01:58  <TrueBrain> the main thing I would like to avoid, is that if you start 1.5 in 5 years, it yells the certificate is invalid ;)
21:02:22  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone here noticed that kwin is occasionally slow to react and switch focus to a new window?
21:03:57  <andythenorth> hide_sprite: LOAD_TEMP(n)
21:04:00  <andythenorth> would be better
21:04:06  <andythenorth> just how to structure the switch?
21:04:18  <andythenorth> for STORE_TEMP()
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21:14:29  <TrueBrain> night all
21:16:20  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:17:02  <Speedy> tighty nighty
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21:19:37  * andythenorth -> bed
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21:20:17  <Speedy> one must learn how irc in bed
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22:47:32  <supermop> yo
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