Log for #openttd on 18th May 2015:
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06:20:02  <andythenorth> huzzah
06:20:06  <andythenorth> I very broke FIRS
06:26:27  <Supercheese> just break it more until it's fixed
06:37:01  <andythenorth> yeah
06:38:11  <andythenorth> I have unbroken most of it
06:38:25  <andythenorth> but not default vehicles :(
06:38:41  <Supercheese> No One™ uses default vehicles
06:39:37  <andythenorth> lies
06:40:06  <andythenorth> also, endless bug reports would happen
06:40:15  <andythenorth> of “FIRS is broken”
06:40:42  <V453000> xd
06:42:17  * andythenorth grumpy
06:43:16  <supermop> use beer
06:45:34  <andythenorth> “BEER"
06:45:37  <andythenorth> BEER doesn’t work
06:45:41  <andythenorth> that was one of my bugs
06:45:55  <andythenorth> string literal needs enclosed in quotes
07:04:12  <andythenorth> eh
07:04:25  <andythenorth> FIRS 1.4.4 breaks default vehicles too
07:04:30  <andythenorth> just less completely
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07:20:21  <andythenorth> bbl
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12:46:38  <V453000> :D how do I cd to a different disk in windows command line?
12:46:54  <supermop> uhh
12:47:00  <supermop> like in dos?
12:47:04  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: "D:"
12:47:05  <V453000> which is? :D
12:47:17  <V453000> oh, so reverse all smileys? :P
12:47:20  <V453000> thanks Eddi|zuHause
12:47:50  <V453000> aint working :d
12:48:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you did it wrong
12:49:02  <V453000> cd E:\folder\
12:49:05  <V453000> that I di
12:49:05  <V453000> d
12:49:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
12:49:12  <V453000> both with "" and without
12:49:22  <__ln__> that also works, but it doesn't do what you expect
12:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but you need to write "E:" without cd, and without anything else
12:49:50  <V453000> that throws an error :d
12:50:01  <V453000> oh
12:50:02  <V453000> got it
12:50:04  <V453000> xd
12:50:07  <V453000> thanks :D
12:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: each drive has its own working directory, so you can change the working directory without being on the drive, but you need to switch to the drive to make that working directory your current working directory
12:53:25  <V453000> yeah, I noticed that once I switched to that drive, I was immediately in the folder I tried to cd all the time
12:54:57  <supermop> off to seinfeld and bed
12:54:59  <supermop> later all
12:55:04  <V453000> cya
13:13:06  <Eddi|zuHause> either the emojic 8 ball is broken, or i just have no proper font installed
13:18:27  <V453000> and I just managed to load all grass slopes as 100% alpha and wondered why it shitborked the game
13:18:32  <V453000> great stuff
13:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds fun
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13:38:37  <V453000> hm, brick size 20cm out of 1000cm tile is way too small
13:38:39  <V453000> need bigger
13:40:48  <peter1138> Drive letters, silly Windows.
13:40:54  <peter1138> They're not even drives, they're partitions :S
13:41:09  <V453000> me haz 1 partition per disk atm :P
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15:21:03  <Alberth> moin
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15:25:32  <argoneus> guys
15:25:32  <argoneus> guys
15:25:42  <argoneus> do you know what the highest mountain on earth was before they discovered mount everest
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15:26:35  <Eddi|zuHause> mount everest isn't the highest mountain on earth
15:26:57  <Eddi|zuHause> (from base to top)
15:27:09  <krinn> what is earth?
15:27:14  <argoneus> jesus christ
15:27:16  <argoneus> go back to your trains guys
15:27:16  <argoneus> :(
15:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> sorry to spoil your trick question :p
15:28:14  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: you are a party pooper!
15:28:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
15:28:27  <argoneus> I'll build railroads over your roads
15:28:30  <argoneus> just for that
15:28:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a road crossing patch. just for that
15:29:00  <argoneus> you are a fucking party pooper
15:29:02  <argoneus> you know that
15:29:13  <Eddi|zuHause> you are going in circles.
15:29:14  <argoneus> I can't even take petty revenge
15:29:20  <argoneus> no
15:29:25  <argoneus> I just tried to approach it from another angle
15:29:28  <argoneus> but that's blocked off too
15:31:09  * krinn checking if he has join #triviaandanger
15:31:29  <Alberth> #openttd carries many names :p
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15:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> the channel of many names
15:32:05  <Eddi|zuHause> (i may have watched too much game of thrones)
15:32:20  <Eddi|zuHause> (i do not recognize that there is a thing as "too much game of thrones")
15:34:07  <krinn> if you start calling anyone bugging you lanister...
15:34:50  <Alberth> inevitably, there will be too much game of thrones, although it may be a while before that happens
15:45:56  <Eddi|zuHause> before i close my eyes at night i list the names of all people that wronged me.
15:46:04  <argoneus> do you listen to isis music to
15:46:05  <argoneus> o
15:47:32  <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
15:47:32  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 32 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 28 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
15:47:35  <Sacro> :(
15:48:36  <argoneus> at least he left with a smile on his face
15:54:04  <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i'm no more doing that, and my insomnia has stopped
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16:07:07  <Flygon> @seen drac_boy
16:07:07  <DorpsGek> Flygon: drac_boy was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 26 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <drac_boy> any of you know what they call these smaller steam locomotive that had vertical boilers instead? the name seem to not come to me :-s
16:07:20  <Flygon> Grasshopper?...
16:18:21  <Eddi|zuHause> so you're answering questions from 2 weeks ago, to people who are not here, now?
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16:25:10  <Sacro> @seen dragonhorseboy
16:25:10  <DorpsGek> Sacro: dragonhorseboy was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 11 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 19 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <dragonhorseboy> going for now..have fun :p
16:25:36  <Sacro> le sigh, those where the days
16:25:40  <Sacro> @seen Eddi|zuHause2
16:25:40  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Eddi|zuHause2 was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 53 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause2> did you mean "two months"? :p
16:25:47  <Sacro> He's been gone ages too
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17:51:33  <Terkhen> hello
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17:55:05  <Wolf01> o/
17:58:18  <Alberth> moin
18:04:43  <argoneus> moan
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18:33:07  <V453000> how does the tree animation cycle work?
18:33:22  <V453000> is the amount of ticks between stages somewhat consistent?
18:33:36  <V453000> is stage 4 there for longest? (The main mature tree)
18:34:22  <V453000> it looks that way.
18:39:38  <frosch123> it wouldn't be ttd if the intervals wouldn't have random length
18:40:16  <V453000> XD ok
18:40:53  <V453000> so answer is: quit being an idiot, make 3 growing stages, one grown stage, and 3 dying stages, just like the original, no fancy shi
18:40:54  <V453000> t
18:42:01  <frosch123> generally it has to decide between A) grow a new tree on the tile, B) grow a new tree on a neighbour tile, or C) kill a tree on the current tile
18:42:06  <frosch123> each with chance 1/3
18:43:03  <frosch123> if a tree grows or dies on a tile that takes 3 cycles
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18:43:09  <frosch123> then it restarts the decision
18:44:27  <frosch123> V453000: are you aware that each tile has multiple trees? the growing/dieing cycle only applies to one of them
18:44:33  <frosch123> the rest of them stays constant
18:44:38  <V453000> yez
18:45:04  <V453000> I am just wondering about the tree sprites :P
18:45:24  <V453000> ie, whether it is okay to only define 2 growing, 1 adult, 4 dying stages for example
18:45:28  <V453000> instead of 3-1-1
18:45:30  <V453000> 3-1-3 :)
18:45:52  <andythenorth> lo
18:45:58  <andythenorth> default vehicles?
18:46:07  <frosch123> the amount of growth stages is fixed
18:46:13  <frosch123> you can only make stages look the same
18:46:17  <frosch123> but you cannot add stages
18:46:34  <V453000> ye
18:46:44  <V453000> also, I made a major graphical revelation today:
18:47:05  <V453000> when I do WTF models, OpenTTD scale does not seem weird (example, slugs)
18:47:16  <V453000> when I do realistic vehicles, the scale always looks bad
18:47:27  <V453000> suggested solution-> do WTF
18:48:39  <andythenorth> it took you this long to figure that out? :o
18:48:53  <andythenorth> my only WTF is why you didn’t do WTF earlier
18:49:03  <V453000> GOOD
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19:06:08  * andythenorth thinks NUTS should all look like Zool
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19:10:51  <Alberth> doesn't it?  It has lots of bright happy colours already
19:12:43  <V453000> wtf is that even
19:12:49  <V453000> I hate how it looks btw
19:13:32  <Alberth> the curse of progress in artistic abilities :)
19:13:49  <Alberth> but wtf, time for nuts2
19:13:56  <Alberth> :)
19:14:40  <V453000> nah I can still continue NUTS1 :P
19:14:53  <V453000> it is WTF compatible
19:15:05  <V453000> brix for now though :)
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19:38:45  <andythenorth> so eh
19:38:52  <andythenorth> what next? o_O
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20:10:44  <andythenorth> V453000: does YETI break default vehicles?
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20:14:57  <frosch123> you mean beyond default vehicles not having vehicles for new cargos?
20:15:27  <andythenorth> FIRS does worst than that
20:16:19  <andythenorth> coal in copper ore car
20:16:23  <andythenorth> engineering supplies in water car
20:16:36  <andythenorth> clay in wood truck
20:16:39  <andythenorth> etc
20:16:42  <andythenorth> actually broken
20:17:45  <frosch123> hmm, why was the cargo limit considered a hard limit again?
20:17:53  <andythenorth> reasons
20:21:22  * andythenorth could have FIRS disable default vehicles
20:21:24  <andythenorth> or fix them
20:21:30  <andythenorth> or refuse to load
20:21:48  <frosch123> you cannot fix them without making them available
20:22:09  <frosch123> we already have a warning if there are no vehicles transporting cargo X
20:22:23  <frosch123> but ofc you could disable default vehicles to press the issue :p
20:22:36  <andythenorth> the thinking is
20:22:50  <andythenorth> for example, I didn’t use newgrf for first ~2 years of playing openttd
20:22:57  <andythenorth> because I thought they were dangerous hacks
20:23:14  <andythenorth> to an inexperienced player, FIRS looks like a broken hack
20:24:12  <frosch123> well, we need newgrf presets on bananas :)
20:24:27  <frosch123> then only allow advanced users to add individual grfs
20:24:38  <andythenorth> :P
20:24:47  <andythenorth> advanced_user=1
20:26:54  <frosch123> hmm, i don't remember the reasoing for the cargo limit
20:27:01  <frosch123> increase it to 250 total, 128 per grf? :p
20:27:15  <frosch123> then we can reinvent regearing, because you do not have to reserve slots :p
20:27:37  <andythenorth> all kinds of evil hacks
20:27:41  <andythenorth> electricity
20:27:42  <andythenorth> gas
20:27:43  <andythenorth> :P
20:28:14  <frosch123> one cargo per industry should be fine, right? :p
20:28:24  <andythenorth> perfect :P
20:28:31  <andythenorth> nobody could abuse this
20:28:41  * andythenorth assumed there was some hard limit on this
20:29:17  <frosch123> the hard limits are newgrf variables, map array and command parameters
20:29:31  <frosch123> newgrf all use translated bits, which are already in 8bit range
20:29:38  <frosch123> map array does not store cargos
20:29:53  <frosch123> and command parameters with cargoid are rare, and likely have enough free bits
20:30:22  <frosch123> basically only bit stuffing implies limits
20:32:24  <andythenorth> hmm
20:32:47  <andythenorth> 128 per grf? o_O
20:33:09  <andythenorth> I seriously think that without the 32 cargo limit, FIRS would have become an unworkable monster
20:33:13  <andythenorth> instead of a monster on a leash
20:33:21  <frosch123> well, ideally you would get rid of the global reservation
20:33:31  <frosch123> so you do not conflict with passenger, mail and regearing slots
20:35:10  <andythenorth> yes
20:35:31  <andythenorth> alternatively, is it feasible to have default vehicles use cargo labels?
20:36:07  <frosch123> they already kind of do
20:36:39  <frosch123> but only the refittable ones
20:36:47  <frosch123> i.e. engines, ships and aircraftr
20:36:58  <frosch123> for rv and train wagons cargo labels and classes make no sense
20:37:13  <frosch123> because you have individual wagons for cargos
20:37:26  <frosch123> and there is no obvious way how to assign new cargos to old wagons
20:37:31  <andythenorth> labels would decouple them from cargo slots though
20:37:36  <andythenorth> so not broken
20:37:37  <frosch123> unless we add some weird cargo property :p
20:38:03  * andythenorth considered some mapping that is set by the newgrf cargos
20:38:06  <andythenorth> but eh, ugh
20:38:26  <andythenorth> isn’t there some legacy property that kind of does that?
20:38:54  <frosch123> possibly property 08, but it is not used like that
20:39:08  <frosch123> and the graphics would fail in any case
20:39:26  <frosch123> alternatively we could make the box van carry everything :)
20:39:36  <frosch123> box and tanker
20:39:45  <frosch123> i.e. the closed ones :p
20:40:01  <andythenorth> could work
20:40:24  <andythenorth> 128 cargos would open up some possibilities, but I’m not sure I like them :)
20:40:45  <frosch123> well, my goal would be to have more cargos in total than per grf
20:40:52  <andythenorth> that would make sense
20:40:53  <frosch123> so we can get rid of the conflicts maybe
20:42:05  <andythenorth> 32 per grf?
20:42:14  <andythenorth> hmm
20:42:17  <andythenorth> it’s a can of worms
20:42:34  <krinn> night guys
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20:42:45  <frosch123> 32 per grf, with the ability to not require a slot for mail/pax in every grf
20:43:18  <andythenorth> and labels as the common link?
20:43:22  <andythenorth> never slots?
20:43:27  * andythenorth assumes
20:43:27  <frosch123> kind of
20:43:44  <andythenorth> so if two grfs define COAL, are they treated as same cargo?
20:43:49  <andythenorth> or just interchangeable?
20:43:58  <frosch123> second COAL overwrites first COAL
20:44:30  <andythenorth> so the label is unique across all active grfs?
20:44:59  <frosch123> but SCRP and SCMT would be separate :p
20:45:07  <andythenorth> ha ha
20:45:07  <frosch123> andythenorth: basically like railtypes
20:45:27  <frosch123> you request a slot for a label, and you get one
20:45:43  <frosch123> within the grf you use local slots, which do not matter for anything
20:45:52  <andythenorth> and you may ask for up to 32 slots
20:45:55  <andythenorth> but not more
20:46:16  <frosch123> yes, or whatever number
20:46:38  <andythenorth> it will end up at 128
20:46:40  <andythenorth> or 64 :P
20:46:53  <andythenorth> we’ll just have to learn not to eat all the pies
20:47:08  <Terkhen> good night
20:47:58  <andythenorth> bye Terkhen
20:48:19  <frosch123> maybe it would be a grfv9 thing though
20:48:36  <andythenorth> maybe new FIRS is a grfv9 thing :)
20:48:48  <andythenorth> when is grfv9? o_O
20:49:03  <frosch123> we need some method to replace original cargos or something
20:49:11  <frosch123> like a "substitute" property
20:49:29  <frosch123> unless we want to do the same magic as with vehicles
20:49:46  <frosch123> cargo slots 0-31 replace original ones, 32-63 are new ones :p
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20:50:27  <frosch123> andythenorth: what do you expect follows grfv8?
20:50:42  <andythenorth> grfvX of course
20:50:54  <frosch123> i mean, i see some questions about what would follow grfv9 :p
20:52:39  <andythenorth> “There is currently no text in this page” :P
20:52:41  <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, don't worry. the current grfv9 list is just a list of random grumbling :)
20:52:56  <frosch123> andythenorth: no uppercase "V"
20:53:30  <andythenorth> ho ho
20:53:31  <frosch123> did you guess the link or something silly?
20:54:06  <andythenorth> yes :)
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20:54:19  <andythenorth> hmm, you had an industry window text proposal somewhere?
20:54:31  <frosch123> likely on the "new callback results" page
20:54:49  <frosch123> i think there are some intersections between those two pages
20:55:09  <frosch123>
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20:55:48  <andythenorth> industry special effects still lives as a dream :D
20:56:21  <frosch123> actually, "it can't be that hard" :p
20:56:33  <andythenorth> not even sure it adds much :)
20:56:48  <andythenorth> might make interesting forests
20:57:01  <frosch123> manually placing objects is boring
20:57:11  <frosch123> so, i hope industries would build them for me :p
20:58:15  <andythenorth> reasonable hope
21:00:17  * andythenorth hopes for ponies
21:02:04  <andythenorth> isolated cargos, industry window text
21:03:58  <frosch123> night
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21:04:22  <andythenorth> also
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21:20:20  <Fahrradkette> hi guys. I just installed openttd on debian 8 (jessie) using the packet manager. All seems to run fine except for the audio part, I often hear distorting can I tell openttd which audio interface to use?
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21:32:58  <Fahrradkette> correction: the sounds do play without distortion but not the music
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21:54:48  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:17:00  <Fahrradkette> n8
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