Log for #openttd on 25th May 2015:
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00:57:04  <sim-al2> Ok update: I think that the server advertises for a minute then stops. I am using the dedicated mode and a player was able to find the server and join from the list but now the server does not appear.
01:03:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that might mean you have a fishy connection
01:04:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the masterserver uses UDP to test your server. if lots of packages get lost, it might not get a reply
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06:01:25  <Alberth> moin
06:01:34  <andythenorth> o/
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06:33:05  * andythenorth considers a ‘casual’ supplies mechanic
06:33:12  <andythenorth> for the player who can’t really be bothered :)
06:33:16  <andythenorth> Alberth: ^ ? o_O
06:34:11  <Alberth> what does that mean?
06:35:46  <Alberth> and while flattered, tbh I am not sure you should do that, most players play firs for exactly the supplies, as I understand it
06:36:49  <Alberth> so as game mechanic it's a good concept
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06:38:22  <Alberth> obviously, I am aware I am dropping a large part of the game play by not handling supplies :)
06:40:06  <Pokka> how does it work?
06:40:34  <V453000> XD yeah how does it work
06:40:40  <Alberth> oh, I do use cdist for supplies, just drop supplies at a point 'nearby', and let a different train run a circle delivering; cdist does some form of splitting the delivered cargo :)
06:40:40  <V453000> Pikka RVs look awsum
06:40:59  <Alberth> hello Vs and Pokkas
06:41:06  <Pokka> hello
06:41:32  <andythenorth> also
06:42:21  * andythenorth hmms
06:42:26  <andythenorth> how to code “you have made a token effort at delivering supplies, here is a small reward”
06:43:05  <Alberth> is there a point?
06:43:26  <Alberth> with BB, it's fun to deliver 25t coal to the other side of the map
06:43:46  <Alberth> if I have to deliver supplies, I can just as well do it properly
06:44:12  <Alberth> it's basically not much more than buying a longer train to move the stuff
06:47:05  <Alberth> perhaps my main problem with supplies is the precise timing of it
06:47:34  <Alberth> and lots of players seem to have troubles delivering the precise amount too
06:48:29  <Alberth> it's a bit like feeding tropic towns in the desert, they need food+water in the same month
06:48:49  <andythenorth> it’s a very similar mechanic
06:48:49  <Alberth> it's hopeless if you try that with independent supply chains
06:49:42  <Alberth> supplies is better in the sense that you have 1 cargo, and a time window, instead of a calendar month
06:50:14  * andythenorth wonders about quarterly amounts
06:50:35  <Alberth> to me, it's too much detailed messing about
06:50:47  <andythenorth> and more stable production
06:50:49  <Alberth> on the other hand, lots of people really seem to like the idea
06:51:21  <andythenorth> I am +/-0 to the whole concept
06:51:42  <andythenorth> I don’t like the original TTD mechanic for increasing production
06:51:48  <Alberth> timetables, worried about the bearings of russian wagons, all very much detail
06:51:55  <andythenorth> but I don’t think FIRS is categorically better
06:52:24  <Alberth> I don't think you can generalize such notions
06:52:46  <Alberth> the best you can do is decide for yourself
06:53:04  <Alberth> and even then, there is normally not a single winner
06:53:37  <Alberth> I like the increasing production, but it's my sytle of playing
06:55:24  <Alberth> if you make changes, make them additions, and keep the original behavior
06:55:25  <argoneus> good morning train friends
06:55:45  <Alberth> people can try different variations, and decide what they like best
06:58:32  <andythenorth> I am keeping current version
06:58:39  <Alberth> +1
06:58:50  <andythenorth> the question is whether there are 1 or 2 alternatives that would be fun
06:59:03  * andythenorth bbl :)
06:59:23  <Alberth> see you
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08:22:20  <andythenorth> Pikka bob: industry production that increases by year.  You canned all that?
08:24:24  <Alberth> wb
08:24:37  <Alberth> what are you trying to solve?
08:24:39  <V453000> that sounds simple nicely, but I think it would be great if the player still gets the higher production only if it is serviced
08:24:53  <Alberth> change the mechanism, or add one as alternative, or improve it?
08:24:56  <V453000> ie, just capping original industries at ~1000 units of cargo per month max would be fine
08:27:48  <Alberth> if you want to reduce the 3-months stress, you could simply store unused supplies rather than consume it without using it
08:28:20  <Alberth> perhaps with a small degradation, not sure you need that
08:29:11  <Alberth> an alternative can be to used delivery-based instead of time-based
08:30:08  <Alberth> if you want a more extreme variant, you could require a minimal amount of deliveries before producing stuff
08:42:13  <andythenorth> “Alberth: what are you trying to solve?” <- I wonder that too
08:42:22  <andythenorth> this is more of the experimental thinking
08:43:55  <Alberth> towards simplifying for casual players, towards more advanced players, something else?
08:44:22  <andythenorth> dunno, towards inventing variety in gameplay I think
08:44:24  <Alberth> making it more complicated or more challenging?
08:44:32  <andythenorth> challenging / different
08:44:38  <andythenorth> PBI does that well
08:44:39  <Alberth> more rewarding
08:44:59  <andythenorth> I can’t play PBI anymore, the stockpiling mechanic bores me horrid now, but it was fun for some time
08:45:32  <Alberth> stockpiling in itself isn't a problem, it's the capping that breaks things, imho
08:45:40  <andythenorth> eh standard game progression for a player is modelled as: (1) learning the game (2) mastering the game (3) boredom
08:45:50  <andythenorth> that’s your basic ludic theory
08:46:03  <andythenorth> people write books that are much longer, but say the same :P
08:46:05  <Alberth> I think that holds universal
08:46:40  <Alberth> I have great respect for people that manage to eg run a shop for a decade
08:47:01  <Alberth> I would be bored beyond belief
08:47:03  <andythenorth> so I am looking for new options for (1) a new mechanic to learn (2) a mechanic that is fun, not tedious
08:47:26  <andythenorth> doesn’t have to be supplies
08:47:39  <andythenorth> problem is, every “interesting” idea I think of, would be better in GS
08:48:38  <Alberth> at local industry level, I think you can only reward steady deliveries as 'new'
08:49:36  <Alberth> perhaps getting more output for the same output, if you keep input at the same level for a longer time?
08:49:54  <Alberth> ie the industry 'optimizes' on the input level
08:50:07  <Alberth> *for the same input
08:50:58  <andythenorth> I think a ‘steady’ or ‘gradual’ mechanic is worth doing, probably along the lines Eddi suggested
08:51:28  <andythenorth> anything else is beyond FIRS
08:51:28  <Alberth> the more optimized, the narrower the band of allowed deviations
08:51:58  <Pikka> canned by year
08:52:07  <andythenorth> because
08:52:14  <andythenorth> or cba?
08:52:24  <Pikka> although something more deterministic and controllable than "random" for sure.
08:52:25  <Alberth> I think it's all experimental anyway, you have to code and try it, to decide if it's useful
08:52:49  <Pikka> by year makes assumptions about increasing carriage capacity over time
08:52:51  <Pikka> too "realistic"
08:52:56  <andythenorth> yair
08:53:05  <Pikka> and also non-interactive
08:53:08  <andythenorth> Pikka: what will your supplies do?
08:53:14  <andythenorth> also how do Yetis work?
08:53:20  <Alberth> maybe have different mechanics for different industry types?
08:53:23  * andythenorth could just steal someone else’s idea
08:53:36  <Alberth> afaik, yetis work very hard :)
08:53:47  <Pikka> my supplies will either temporarily increase production, progress the industry towards an upgrade, or both. haven't really worked out any mechanics yet :)
08:54:02  <andythenorth> ‘level up’
08:54:26  <andythenorth> (1) delivering gives a temp (30 day) boost to next level
08:54:40  <andythenorth> (2) delivering consistently for 12 months makes that level permanent
08:54:50  <andythenorth> this is like old FIRS + new FIRS
08:55:06  <Pikka> something like that
08:55:28  <andythenorth> is there a ‘level down’?
08:55:29  <andythenorth>  :P
08:55:59  <Pikka> nope, I've got some idea about industries going bust though. if you level them up you have to maintain high service or they'll close down on you, or something.
08:56:31  * andythenorth ponders designing for small maps
08:56:38  <andythenorth> more micro-management
08:57:05  <Pikka> test everything on 256*512 imo :P
08:57:17  <Pikka> bigger maps are fundementally silly.
08:58:22  <Alberth> ECS closes down on you, Pikka
08:58:51  <andythenorth> bigger maps introduce all kinds of problems
08:59:11  <Alberth> couldn't you just 'punish' by lowering production for some time?
08:59:18  <andythenorth> eh, also micro-management is too easily dismissed as ‘micro-management is bad, mkay'
08:59:46  <andythenorth> more micro-management imo, mediated by GS
09:00:08  <Pikka> I think most of the specific mechanics will be switchonoffable
09:00:16  <andythenorth> controversial
09:00:19  <Pikka> since no-one can agree on what makes a good industry grf :P
09:00:35  <andythenorth> I thought it was understood that ECS has nailed it?
09:00:45  <andythenorth> dunno
09:00:54  <Pikka> in general, I quite like the idea of industries closing and opening during gameplay, both primary and secondary.
09:00:54  <Alberth> by definition, people are never happy with what you give them
09:01:07  <andythenorth> eh
09:01:09  <Pikka> makes the game world more alive, makes network building less fire-and-forget
09:01:16  <Pikka> more micromanagement ;)
09:01:21  <Pikka> or middle-management, perhaps
09:01:28  <andythenorth> let’s extend NoGo so it can handle the industry monthly and random cbs
09:01:35  <andythenorth> then we get production level and closure
09:01:40  <Pikka> it needs to happen in an explicable and predictable way though
09:02:05  <andythenorth>
09:03:05  * Pikka never played ECS... at least not for many years.
09:03:09  <Alberth> I would prefer a saner interface than n*2 times
09:03:52  <andythenorth> 0D and 0E
09:03:58  <andythenorth> that’s how ‘old’ FIRS did it
09:04:11  <Alberth> ah, nice
09:04:20  <andythenorth> that cb is feature-complete imo
09:04:27  <andythenorth> it does everything a GS would need
09:04:45  <andythenorth> and it’s only called monthly per industry, so not CPU intensive
09:05:06  <andythenorth> or there’s a random equivalent, which varies by smooth / non-smooth economy iirc
09:05:49  <andythenorth> “locusts eat your grain, your grain network is in chaos"
09:06:05  <Pikka> nom nom nom
09:06:11  <andythenorth> “3 years of good weather means bumper harvest"
09:06:29  <Alberth> cb can be used once / month only?
09:06:34  <andythenorth> yes
09:06:48  * Pikka sometimes wishes for a global random seed accessable to newgrf
09:06:57  <andythenorth> I thought there was one?
09:06:57  <Pikka> so we could have a bumper harvest, across all farms.
09:07:09  <Pikka> I don't think so? I've been asking for one for a while...
09:07:14  <andythenorth> I worked out a hack once by counting towns
09:07:16  <andythenorth> or some such
09:07:26  <Pikka> hmm
09:07:31  <andythenorth> oh you can read town registers
09:07:38  <andythenorth> strictly they could be used for message passing
09:07:43  <andythenorth> never tried it
09:07:49  <andythenorth> was advised it was a Bad Idea
09:07:56  <Pikka> it sounds it :)
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09:39:58  * andythenorth hi hoes
09:40:00  <andythenorth> bbl
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10:18:20  <supermop> yo
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10:20:20  <supermop> is it wrong to use this huge 'centennial' diesel to pull passenggers?
10:28:18  <Flygon> No
10:28:30  <Flygon> Heavy Harry was designed for pax, afterall
10:28:45  <Flygon> And it was Australia's singular most powerful locomotive from the 1930s through to 1995
10:39:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't really have a lot of choice anyway
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10:45:14  <Alberth> hola
10:46:48  <frosch123> hoi
10:53:56  <supermop> the fp40 or whatever looks boring doubleheaded
10:54:32  <Alberth> ugh, palette of newgrfs is not saved  :(
10:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but where would you save it?
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11:01:49  <Alberth> in openttd.cfg probably
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11:06:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose nobody bothered to implement it
11:06:28  <Eddi|zuHause> it's only needed if your ancient grfs have mixed palettes
11:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause> if all have the same palette, just use the default switch
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11:40:35  <andythenorth> Pikka: wanna make an industry set together? o_O
11:40:52  <Pikka> sure. when do you want to start? :D
11:41:02  <andythenorth> about 4 years ago
11:41:10  <Pikka> sounds about right
11:41:16  <andythenorth> TAIFIRS
11:41:38  <Pikka> I'll write some pineappleindustry documentation some time soon
11:41:42  <Pikka> maybe after the kickstarter
11:41:59  <Pikka> definitely after tonight, I have about another thousand words to write in the next 2 hours. :)
11:42:05  <andythenorth> I like GarryG, he has sent me some PMs
11:42:08  <andythenorth> nice bloke
11:42:18  <andythenorth> someone should kick Pikka
11:42:21  <andythenorth> so he wordses
11:42:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm having a hard time distinguishing which of these lines are ironic :p
11:42:39  <Eddi|zuHause> (if in doubt: all of them.)
11:42:43  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sometimes even English people struggle with that
11:42:51  <andythenorth> sometimes even the speaker [writer]
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11:54:26  * andythenorth wonders what this ‘div’ and ‘multi’ do in FIRS clustering, and what they should be set to
11:56:05  <andythenorth> I want slightly more clusters than I’m getting
11:57:03  <andythenorth>
11:57:51  <Alberth> it's a work around for the obsessiveness of newgrf for integer numbers :)
11:58:07  <Alberth> ie you cannot multiply with 0.6
11:58:26  <andythenorth> as far as I can see, if mult is 1, and div is 2
11:58:27  <Alberth> so you multiply with 3, and then divide by 5
11:58:31  <andythenorth> I should get 2 clusters per map
11:58:37  <andythenorth> on 256x256
11:59:23  <andythenorth> a better algorithm would limit the number of industries per cluster, then go build more :P
11:59:24  <andythenorth> mybe
11:59:40  <Alberth> mult and div just means    ( (real)mult/div )  as multiplication factor
12:00:06  <Alberth> but in the integer domain, so you get an integer number as result
12:01:43  <Alberth> hmm, yeah, T3rkhen looked into that one at some time, but it appeared you cannot express "I want N industries at most" (for N=3)
12:02:23  <andythenorth> hmm
12:02:35  <andythenorth> so if mult = 1 and div = 3
12:02:52  <andythenorth> how many clusters? :P
12:03:07  <andythenorth> infinite?
12:04:01  * andythenorth can’t do maths
12:05:25  <Alberth> Any idea what "industry_clusters" is at line 84?
12:05:49  <andythenorth> map scaling factor
12:05:52  <andythenorth> it’s a parameter
12:06:19  <Alberth> oh, wrong macro problably?
12:07:22  <andythenorth>
12:07:46  <andythenorth> the comment is wrong on L6 I think
12:07:56  <andythenorth> closures / clusters /s
12:08:05  <Alberth> industry_count(related) * mult / div / industry_clusters != 0    <-- this counts the related industries, multiplies it with 1/3 (in your case), and checks it's less than 1
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12:08:39  <Alberth> which of course fails if you have 3 or more industry_count(related)
12:08:54  <Alberth> (assuming the parameter is 1)
12:10:08  <andythenorth> < 1 evaluates same as !=0 :o
12:10:16  <andythenorth> integer maths, floor?
12:13:05  <Alberth> yes, unless they are negative
12:13:47  <Alberth> but that's about how you truncate a floating point number
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12:36:59  <supermop> can i re-order my orders, but in the same order?
12:38:17  <supermop> like right now the order list is "CDAB", can i easily make it "ABCD" without messing up my timetable?
12:39:30  <supermop> apparently yes,
12:39:42  <supermop> for some definitions of 'easily"
12:40:21  <V453000> heyoo you arent asleep yet :) sending email in 1 minute :P
12:40:58  <supermop> coool
12:41:00  <andythenorth> so coal mine has mult = 2 and div = 3
12:41:13  <andythenorth> so 1 cluster per 256*256 of map size
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12:45:44  * andythenorth wonders if fractional amounts are worth bothering with
12:45:51  <andythenorth> and also, FIRS doesn’t work at 256*256
12:45:53  <andythenorth> so eh
12:46:14  <andythenorth> maybe just specify number of clusters
12:47:16  <Alberth> make 'div' 1  :)
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13:08:58  <andythenorth> ha
13:09:03  <andythenorth> that’s plausible hax :P
13:10:40  <andythenorth> I can’t see any code to enforce distance _between_ clusters
13:10:45  <andythenorth> as I read that
13:11:20  <andythenorth> until specified number of clusters, there is no check for distance to related industry
13:12:15  <andythenorth> so clusters might easily co-locate
13:12:21  <andythenorth> and I suspect that actually they do this
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13:31:27  <andythenorth> hmm farms map probability was set insanely high
14:00:10  <andythenorth> 0 && 1 = 0
14:00:10  <andythenorth> ?
14:00:15  <andythenorth> 0 || 1 = 1
14:00:16  <andythenorth> ?
14:01:06  <Alberth> what is the problem?
14:01:38  <Alberth> '&&' means 'and', ie 'both must hold'
14:02:00  <Alberth> '||' means 'or', ie 'at least one must hold'
14:04:13  <andythenorth>
14:04:21  <andythenorth> L84, I need to add another check
14:04:41  <andythenorth> need to check “industry_count(related) * mult / div / industry_clusters == 0"
14:04:57  <andythenorth> and also enforce a min. distance to another industry
14:05:12  <andythenorth> would be easier done by splitting switches tbh, more readable
14:05:21  <andythenorth> also if there were fewer \ chars :P
14:08:33  <andythenorth> hmm
14:09:28  <andythenorth> Alberth: got a game to hand? :P
14:09:31  <andythenorth> nvm if you’re busy
14:10:11  <Alberth> I have 3 conversations going currently :)
14:11:11  <andythenorth> I need a second opinion on last FIRS commit
14:11:13  <andythenorth> not urgent
14:11:36  <andythenorth> basically means running map gen a few times and giving opinion on primary industry distribution
14:11:45  <andythenorth>
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14:26:33  <Alberth> some industries are missing in 1950, that is intended I assume?
14:28:40  <andythenorth> which ones?
14:28:46  <andythenorth> recycling?
14:31:39  <Alberth> think so
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14:32:11  <Alberth>  is more busy than
14:32:15  <andythenorth> you saw the hg branch is ‘snakebite’ btw, not default? o_O
14:32:28  <Alberth> yes, I saw
14:32:40  <Alberth> I assumed that was intended :)
14:32:46  <andythenorth> yes
14:32:57  <andythenorth> ah, the default map is interesting
14:33:06  <andythenorth> FIRS ‘consumes’ quite a lot of industries for towns
14:33:13  <andythenorth> shops and so on
14:33:21  <andythenorth> so relatively fewer primary + secondary
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14:33:47  <andythenorth> we talked once about letting the industry grf specify the number of industries to generate, over-riding TTD
14:34:18  <andythenorth> the map in your screenie loses about 23 industries to towns
14:35:53  * andythenorth never thought about the implications of that
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15:24:25  <Alberth> How can GarryG merge TAI and FIRS? I thought you used all cargoes?
15:29:53  <andythenorth> he’s either getting lucky with overlapping cargos
15:30:04  <andythenorth> or it’s broken and he hasn’t found that yet (he’s still testing)
15:30:32  <andythenorth> TAI is mostly default cargos
15:30:43  <andythenorth> and Full FIRS provides most of those
15:32:10  <Alberth> :)
15:35:50  <V453000> yapf.rail_doubleslip_penalty = 100 what is this?
15:37:21  <Alberth>  ///< penalty for passing a double slip switch     <-- thats the comment
15:37:40  <V453000> slip switch eh? :D
15:37:45  * andythenorth busy bee
15:38:02  <andythenorth> it really bothers about double slips?
15:38:16  <V453000> and yapf.rail_pbs_cross_penalty = 300 ?
15:38:47  <Alberth>    it actually exists :)
15:38:53  <andythenorth> yes :)
15:39:16  <andythenorth> on 2-rail DC electric trains, wiring one is a bit fiddly
15:39:29  <andythenorth> but that’s my long-ago past :P
15:39:31  <V453000> hm
15:39:33  * andythenorth is not train kid anymore
15:39:40  <andythenorth> now I wire up pythons :P
15:39:48  <V453000> so the pahtfinder knows if my tracks are like |X| ?
15:39:56  <V453000> like the typical X at the front of terminus?
15:39:58  <andythenorth> yes
15:40:01  <andythenorth> seems to
15:40:13  <V453000> and the PBS cross is then what? :D same with PBS?
15:40:46  <Alberth>
15:42:18  <Alberth> hmm, that's npf
15:42:23  * andythenorth hmms
15:42:30  <andythenorth> eh, I’ll let you finish train things :P
15:43:00  <Alberth>
15:43:43  <Alberth> I have no clue about train things, compared to most other people here :)
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15:44:06  * andythenorth does
15:44:10  <andythenorth> but keeps it quiet :P
15:44:24  * andythenorth probably is most-train-thing of anyone here :P
15:44:29  <andythenorth> train-off?
15:44:37  <Alberth> train-ee  :)
15:45:23  <Alberth> well, you do find very nice train and industry pictures, I very much enjoy those
15:46:31  <andythenorth> so, eh, should farms cluster at all?
15:47:20  <Alberth> it makes them different from other industries, which I think is good
15:47:58  <Alberth> truck or tram feeders are nicely feasible with them
15:48:24  <andythenorth> it leaves them unevenly distributed across the map
15:48:39  <andythenorth> maybe I just need to figure out how to get more clusters
15:49:09  <Alberth> reduce  mult/div factor?
15:49:45  <Alberth> then it takes longer until you reach 1
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15:50:14  <Alberth> ie add something to 'div'
15:50:44  <Alberth> make it a big number as a test :)
15:51:22  * andythenorth tests
15:52:06  <andythenorth> faster FIRS compiles => more FIRS development
16:03:51  <andythenorth> ok so 1/4 works better
16:03:55  <andythenorth> on a 512x512 map
16:04:00  <andythenorth> for limited number of tests :P
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16:36:31  <__ln__>
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16:43:42  <andythenorth> ha ha
16:43:45  <andythenorth> 2048x2048 maps
16:43:50  * andythenorth will ignore those
16:48:56  <peter1138> 4096x lol
16:50:36  <andythenorth> why would I even care where industries get built on a 2048x2048 map?
16:50:50  <andythenorth> I should stick em all within 128 tiles of the NE map edge :P
16:50:52  <andythenorth> for laughs
16:51:21  <V453000> XD
16:51:31  <V453000> good feature, I like it
16:51:59  <andythenorth> maybe that’s the best placement rule for _all_ map sizes?
16:52:03  <andythenorth> what could go wrong?
16:52:07  <andythenorth> all processors on NE edge
16:52:12  <andythenorth> all primaries on SW
16:52:12  <Alberth> do it in the top-left 1024, and it works for all maps :p
16:52:54  <Alberth> I do hope I don't have a huge sea at the SW :p
16:52:59  <andythenorth> would be sad
16:55:48  * andythenorth generates more test maps
16:56:14  <andythenorth> so a dairy that is > 128 tiles from a farm producing milk
16:56:25  <andythenorth> what’s the point? o_O
16:56:51  <andythenorth> there are 5 other dairies between this one and the nearest milk farms
16:56:55  <V453000> XD
16:57:03  <andythenorth> this kind of map gen bugs me
16:57:14  <andythenorth> especially when I get GS orders to provide cargo to it :)
16:57:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the problem
17:04:31  <andythenorth> it’s one of the cases where realism is a valid concern
17:04:54  <andythenorth> makes the map gen seem
17:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with "realism" as an argument is that people selectively choose the parts of "realism" that suit them and ignore the other parts
17:08:53  <Eddi|zuHause> which stops it from being "realistic" in the first place
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17:18:58  <andythenorth> fails for me
17:19:09  <andythenorth> why would the game locate an industry you’re never going to serve?
17:21:31  <Alberth> interesting point, but how do you fix that?
17:22:41  <andythenorth> enforce max distance to source industry?
17:23:46  <andythenorth> every source-destination pair would need to do it
17:23:48  <andythenorth> meh
17:24:23  <Alberth> unless max distance is equal to size of the industry, I don't it would work
17:27:37  <Alberth> wouldn't it require a form of analysis to see if there are same industries "on the path" ?
17:28:22  <andythenorth> could be done by FIRS at compile time
17:28:29  <andythenorth> but yeah, unpleasant
17:28:44  <Alberth> hard-code layout :p
17:28:53  <andythenorth> ha
17:29:14  * andythenorth considers it
17:29:36  <Alberth> it fails on the first splash of water at the wrong place :p
17:30:09  <andythenorth> allow industries to raise land :P
17:30:29  <Alberth> neat, islands in the sea :)
17:30:40  <andythenorth> I wanted to do nitrate mine that way
17:30:43  <andythenorth> but can’t raise land :P
17:33:25  * andythenorth invents complicated location rules
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17:37:47  <andythenorth> nah
17:38:10  <andythenorth> those industries bug me htough
17:38:14  <andythenorth> though *
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17:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're overengineering this
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17:54:25  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: whatever placement rule you can come up with, it will fail when the order of industry construction is changed
17:55:03  <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot check for industries that will be constructed later
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18:09:09  <andythenorth> yes
18:09:23  <andythenorth> that’s why I’m not going to fix it
18:09:37  <andythenorth> it’s just going to bug me every time I see it :P
18:10:04  <andythenorth> any code I write will likely have unwanted side effects, at minimum it will increase map gen time
18:10:16  <andythenorth> at worst, pathological case, entire chains might go missing :P
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18:29:30  * andythenorth must to motorways
18:29:31  <andythenorth> bye
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18:50:57  <Eddi|zuHause> do motorways have to bathe now as well?
18:52:08  <Alberth> we might never know
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19:36:39  <Wolf01> o/
19:41:14  <Taede> ello
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21:09:50  <andythenorth> motorways complete
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21:29:01  <Wolf01> 'night all
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22:02:25  <qwebirc73658> hi all, i'm coming back to openttd after years and I was wondering if there was any work going on with cargodest?
22:16:29  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:18:11  <Eddi|zuHause> check the settings that say "cargo distribution"
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22:58:28  <peter1138> gute nacht
23:03:32  <Eddi|zuHause> english only!
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