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00:03:12 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-184-37.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:31:20 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.97.28] has quit [Quit: (._. ) ( ._.) ( '-') ('-' ) Are you using AdiIRC? [www.adiirc.com]] 00:31:57 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:52 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:04 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:06:39 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@xd9bf051d.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 02:13:36 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@xd9bf288f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:19:01 <supermop> hello 04:10:40 *** mari_kiri [~mari@198.143.136.161] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4C95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4631.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:09:00 *** JGR_ [~JGR@host86-178-174-182.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 05:11:23 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 05:11:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 05:11:41 *** JGR [~JGR@86.178.172.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:11:41 *** JGR_ is now known as JGR 05:22:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 05:31:22 <Alberth> moin 05:31:27 <andythenorth> o/ 05:36:52 <supermop> hi 05:40:51 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7332/bigger_oil_refinery_1.png 05:40:57 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7333/bigger_oil_refinery_2.png 05:41:12 * andythenorth has been taking advantage of FIRS compiling in 5s ^ 05:41:29 <andythenorth> more layouts for Oil Refinery 05:42:18 <Alberth> keeping tanks together and processing together 05:43:17 <andythenorth> seems to be how itâs done 05:43:17 <Alberth> looks good 05:44:01 <Alberth> it could use a little more variation perhaps, the 'office' sort of disappears with the big buildings 05:44:45 <Alberth> perhaps some open space? 05:47:10 <andythenorth> I wondered about some empty tile 05:47:13 <andythenorth> or pipe tiles 05:47:15 <andythenorth> dunno 05:47:21 <andythenorth> I like the manic intensity 05:47:56 <Alberth> then don't touch it any more :) 05:49:22 <Alberth> you could have pipes at the same level as the top of the tanks, so people can walk under it 05:51:20 * andythenorth will try it in a game or so, then decide 05:51:30 <andythenorth> there are interesting pipe shapes that could be used 05:52:24 <Alberth> it's all a bit vertical to me, something horizontal-ish would break that 05:54:33 <Alberth> ah, original had more open pipes https://wiki.openttd.org/Oil_Refinery 05:56:32 <Alberth> maybe a group of different size tanks? 05:57:45 <Alberth> a 2x2 tiles one :) 06:04:31 <andythenorth> there are probably pieces in DWE station tiles 06:04:41 <andythenorth> or there are some oil station parts in ISR 06:08:44 <Alberth> doing a little shopping :) 06:27:09 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@46.66.171.161.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:28:49 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@46.66.160.42.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #openttd 06:29:27 *** shirish [~quassel@117.215.24.27] has joined #openttd 06:30:47 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.215.24.27] has joined #openttd 06:31:24 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:31 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.215.24.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:43 *** shirish [~quassel@117.215.24.27] has joined #openttd 06:57:00 * andythenorth busy busy 07:00:59 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.120.209] has joined #openttd 07:01:39 <andythenorth> hrm 07:01:44 <andythenorth> Grain Mill 07:01:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A180E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:01:57 <andythenorth> forum suggestion to add silos 07:02:03 <andythenorth> might be nice 07:02:11 <andythenorth> also the windmill version is one tile 07:02:20 <andythenorth> looks stupid 07:02:26 <andythenorth> should I add a granary building? 07:02:27 <andythenorth> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Skirbeck%2C_Boston%2C_Maud_Foster_Mill.jpg 07:02:42 <andythenorth> http://gerald-massey.org.uk/windmills/images/07/Gamnel%20Wharf%20mill%201.jpg 07:03:01 <andythenorth> or even two windmills together? 07:03:24 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#grain_mill 07:04:27 *** shirish__ [~quassel@117.195.124.104] has joined #openttd 07:07:50 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:09:43 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.120.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:13:58 *** shirish [~quassel@59.94.122.118] has joined #openttd 07:15:32 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:15:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 07:17:48 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:56 <Alberth> second picture is clearly not good for the mill 07:18:22 <Alberth> the building takes away all the wind of the mill 07:18:56 <Alberth> like the idea of the building at a distance 07:19:42 <Alberth> two windmills seems a bit too much to me 07:20:29 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-129-120.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:20:38 *** shirish__ [~quassel@117.195.124.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:52 <andythenorth> I tried it 07:21:54 <andythenorth> might be ok 07:22:44 <Alberth> perhaps it's just me,I am used to windmills as single building in the middle of nowhere 07:22:51 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7334/two_windmills.png 07:22:55 <Alberth> but those are watermills, pumping water 07:24:14 <andythenorth> dutch style :) 07:24:51 <Alberth> :) 07:25:31 <andythenorth> hmm 07:25:33 <Alberth> http://straatkaart.nl/8711HB-Brouwersdijk/media_fotos/molen-ybenas-molen-workum-provincie-friesland-AgB/ 07:25:56 <Alberth> http://www.fryslansite.com/d-base/html/Dokkum_molens.htm 07:25:57 <andythenorth> Iâll draw a granary and then decide how many windmills 07:27:14 <Alberth> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Zwaluw_%28Birdaard%29#/media/File:Burdaard_m%C3%BBne.JPG grain mill 07:27:45 <Alberth> sounds like the right order of deciding to me :) 07:29:14 <Alberth> http://www.dezaanseschans.nl/en/windmills-at-zaanse-schans/ this is the only place where you have many mills together, but it's created this way for tourists (although originally there were a lot of mills there, 600 the text says) 07:29:44 <Alberth> can't imagine how that must have looked 07:30:02 <Alberth> probably like antenna spam :) 07:30:59 <andythenorth> this granary? http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/18/21/182137_a2aa58cd.jpg o_O 07:31:01 <andythenorth> maybe not 07:31:08 <andythenorth> itâs a restaurant near my office ;P 07:36:41 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.103.165] has joined #openttd 07:38:07 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:39:34 <Alberth> :O snowy builders yard, very good looking :) 07:39:59 <Alberth> it looks like a granary alright 07:40:28 <Alberth> perhaps a bit too many decorations :) 07:47:15 *** smurf [~smurf@2001:780:107:0:1278:d2ff:fea3:d4a6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:22 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7335/windmill_granary.png 07:51:40 <andythenorth> too high? 07:54:48 <Alberth> nah 07:55:03 <Alberth> interesting doors at the top floor :) 07:56:58 <andythenorth> yeah 07:57:40 <Alberth> http://www.inarchitecten.nl/project.php?ps=6&pr=917 it needs a hook above it 07:58:14 *** shirish [~quassel@117.214.126.252] has joined #openttd 07:58:51 <andythenorth> yes 08:03:16 <andythenorth> needs a hook thing now https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7336/windmill_granary_2.png 08:04:16 *** shirish__ [~quassel@117.215.25.200] has joined #openttd 08:04:54 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.103.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:05:13 <Alberth> doesn't look like it to me 08:05:19 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 08:05:46 <Alberth> you want a big door if you hoist grain to the second floor 08:07:01 <Alberth> new granary looks pretty, all buildings nicely in the same style 08:07:28 <planetmaker> moin 08:07:39 <Alberth> moin planetmaker 08:07:52 <planetmaker> hm, I see lovely new firs buildings here 08:08:19 <Alberth> all multi-site-ish 08:09:29 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:14:06 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7337/windmill_granary_3.png 08:14:12 <andythenorth> hook thing 08:14:13 <andythenorth> dunno 08:15:48 <V453000> yay 08:16:50 <V453000> I think the holes/door should not be 100% black andy 08:17:13 <planetmaker> :) Not sure the hook needs a whole protruding building part. But looks nice this way, too 08:17:39 <andythenorth> I think it looks weird tbh 08:17:42 <planetmaker> I think hook as in wooden means to fasten a rope to lift stuff to the window is totally sufficient 08:17:52 * andythenorth removes the sticking out part 08:20:43 <planetmaker> http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Frundreise-niedersachsen.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F10%2Fstade.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Frundreise-niedersachsen.com%2Fpage%2F2%2F&h=507&w=760&tbnid=-dm82S4BQLIqsM%3A&zoom=1&docid=jE3zwYFAtZlKVM&ei=r_5zVei_OcvSUevMgIAM&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=350&page=2&start=46&ndsp=52&ved=0COYBEK0DMEA <-- like those things found on the buildings there 08:21:02 <planetmaker> just a small stick 08:22:00 <V453000> I like sticking out part a lot 08:22:02 <V453000> a nice detail 08:35:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:01 <Wolf01> hi hi 08:36:35 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.123.221] has joined #openttd 08:36:36 <Alberth> moin 08:40:41 <V453000> hyhy 08:42:38 *** shirish__ [~quassel@117.215.25.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:43:12 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:31 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7338/windmill_granary_4.png 08:44:13 <planetmaker> oh, that looks very nice indeed 08:44:47 <andythenorth> better than a single tile windmill 08:44:52 <andythenorth> I might add some other tile as well 08:45:08 <andythenorth> it bothers me when the vehicle stations are many more tiles than the industry 08:47:17 <Alberth> nice change, makes it a whole new building 08:47:32 <V453000> why does EVERYTHING in blender have to be so stupidly complicated 08:47:38 <V453000> making a camera is rocket science 08:47:45 <andythenorth> rocket science is not very hard 08:47:57 <andythenorth> get a tube, fill with explodey stuff, light one end 08:47:59 <andythenorth> stand back 08:48:11 <andythenorth> jet engine science, thatâs complicated 08:48:33 <V453000> k :D 08:48:43 <Alberth> rofl! 08:50:11 <andythenorth> V453000: still better than pixels, no? 08:50:50 <V453000> well better 08:51:08 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f745881.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 08:51:10 <V453000> it always has the 3D usefulness but mfhsdfuo 08:52:54 <frosch123> hola 08:52:59 <V453000> hi 09:02:46 <Alberth> hoi 09:03:14 <Wolf01> o/ 09:11:01 <planetmaker> \o 09:25:56 <andythenorth> water wheel variant of windmill? o_O 09:29:22 <argoneus> /o\ 09:32:14 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:38:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: make a steampunk version of firs, and make windmills and watermills the default after 2050 09:39:28 <frosch123> you never see industries only available in early years, better make them available again in the future :) 09:41:01 <Alberth> can't you just repeat history, say every 500 years? :) 09:46:24 <andythenorth> civilisation cycle 09:46:38 <andythenorth> who plays 500 years? :P 09:47:25 <Alberth> everybody that plays for a year with a single game? :) 09:47:27 <Alberth> bbl 09:47:31 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 09:48:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: it also solves the daylength problem :p 09:48:34 <frosch123> you have 500 years time to build your network, before running 1st gen steam engines on them :p 09:48:39 <andythenorth> ha 09:48:43 <andythenorth> just reset the date 09:48:48 <andythenorth> every 200 years 09:49:00 <andythenorth> or run the clock backwards 09:49:12 <andythenorth> ânew engine available: slower and weaker than the current one" 09:59:00 <andythenorth> hmm 09:59:00 <andythenorth> industry fields via new objects? o_O 11:06:13 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 11:45:08 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 11:45:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 11:49:38 <andythenorth> o/ 11:53:17 <Alberth> hi hi, made more nice buildings? 11:55:28 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 12:00:03 <frosch123> is there some kind of pretty-printer for json? 12:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i would be really surprised if there wasn't 12:01:08 <Alberth> json.dump has an indent option or so 12:02:18 <frosch123> i was hoping for some console tool :p 12:03:15 <frosch123> json_pp 12:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you should probably have specified the context, otherwise everybody is just replying for their favourite scripting language 12:06:25 <frosch123> well, fuck dynamically typed languages 12:06:29 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phpsmwed5 12:06:49 <frosch123> json_pp --json_opt=pretty < la_VA.json | less <- way shorter 12:07:01 <Alberth> :) 12:07:38 <Alberth> rewrite eints in java? :) 12:10:24 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pusuynbkl <- that's what i have so far 12:10:48 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwvmv5se7 <- but that is really not helpful 12:12:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it says you're missing the acc(usative) case. what's confusing about that? 12:12:46 <Alberth> it's not supposed to be missing :p 12:12:57 <frosch123> @kick Eddi|zuHause enjoy the sun :) 12:12:57 *** Eddi|zuHause was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [enjoy the sun :)] 12:13:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4631.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> not a lot of sun right now 12:13:56 <frosch123> that's only because i shut the blinds 12:24:27 <frosch123> ah, "case"->"cases" 12:27:43 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plu1nyid8 12:27:45 <frosch123> boom, oom, something is broken :p 12:29:10 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxg0yksi3 <- i made it more similar to the xml loader 12:29:15 <frosch123> btw. why are they so different? 12:29:34 <frosch123> i hoped for some base class, only replacing a few methods for xml/json 12:29:53 <frosch123> but it looks like there is a _json function for every xml function, which is 50% the same 12:30:10 <Alberth> yep 12:30:28 <Alberth> and json{Saver,Loader} doesn't do shit 12:30:44 <Alberth> and Xml{Saver,Loader} isn't much about xml at all 12:31:44 <frosch123> well, for now, this doesn't work 12:31:55 <frosch123> i revert back to xml, so i can test my actual changes 12:36:36 <Alberth> you loaded all openttd languages? 12:36:52 <frosch123> yes, i uploaded all, exit eints, and tried to restart 12:40:06 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@xd9bf051d.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Yo, bro.] 12:55:51 <andythenorth> with the huts? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7339/windmill_granary_5.png 12:56:00 <andythenorth> or without? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7338/windmill_granary_4.png 12:56:10 <andythenorth> I donât like small industry layouts 12:57:09 <supermop> ugh i just lost hours to this reddit server game 12:57:31 <Alberth> huts don't really fit the other buildings 12:57:46 <Alberth> supermop: good, openttd is working :) 12:58:24 <andythenorth> I can change the hut style 12:58:26 <supermop> how about you take over my company Alberth so i can make a late dinner? 12:58:51 <Alberth> sorry, I have other games to play 13:00:07 <supermop> anyone else? 13:11:01 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/eints/ <- enable lang_sync to process unstable languages 13:11:15 <frosch123> remove the language table from lang_sync and get it from eints 13:11:31 <frosch123> and make lang_sync use the isocode as key for languages, instead of the grflangid 13:13:41 <frosch123> oi, the example is wrong :p 13:15:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6AC58.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:19:02 <frosch123> updated 60 13:21:39 <Alberth> unstable addition needs manual update 13:22:32 <frosch123> you mean the language definition? 13:23:01 <Alberth> oh, it has. nvm 13:23:10 <Alberth> ok, patch queue seems fine 13:23:58 <frosch123> oh, you meant "the manual" :o 13:24:50 <Alberth> yes :) 13:25:29 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7340/windmill_granary_6.png 13:25:30 <andythenorth> ? 13:25:38 <andythenorth> looks like a monastery? o_O 13:25:51 * andythenorth wonders about just one tile of huts 13:26:58 <frosch123> remove the southern house and make it just a dirt tile? 13:27:23 <frosch123> or possibly the western tile 13:27:48 <andythenorth> yeah 13:28:03 <frosch123> well, you cannot put a heqs vehicle there :p 13:28:07 * andythenorth wonders about 2x2 with a tile missing 13:28:12 <andythenorth> weird though 13:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can just make a fenced grass tile. 13:30:24 <Alberth> move the small houses one tile to NW ? 13:30:24 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7341/windmill_granary_7.png 13:30:31 <andythenorth> maybe some baseset trees? o_O 13:31:02 <andythenorth> something company colour? 13:31:02 <frosch123> no, trees are weird 13:31:19 <frosch123> esp. if the normal trees are invisible 13:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause> you really don't want trees near a windmill... they have a tendency to block the wind. 13:31:39 <frosch123> some vehicles would be nice, but an empty tile also works, but maybe try it on the west side instead of south 13:31:59 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/graphics/industries/arable_farm_1.png 13:32:01 <Alberth> a dirt path on it? 13:32:08 <andythenorth> cart, steam tractor with trailer 13:32:11 <andythenorth> existing arable farm 13:32:22 <andythenorth> ? 13:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> full sentence? 13:33:00 <frosch123> the cart could work 13:33:18 <frosch123> but likely not centered on the tile :p 13:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> https://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2015/06/06/why-agile-and-especially-scrum-are-terrible/ 13:33:47 <Alberth> I agree, cart looks better than tractor 13:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how a windmill has need for a tractor 13:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe a small truck in later years 13:37:39 * andythenorth wonders what version of scrum that guy was doing 13:38:10 <nikow> e/win 16 13:38:12 <nikow> sorry 13:39:52 <supermop> goodnight all 13:40:00 <Hiddenfunstuff> day nobody 13:40:24 <supermop> if anyone wants to mess around with my company on reddit firs server have at it 13:40:38 <supermop> small network of timetabled trains 13:40:51 <supermop> password is 'mop' 13:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody here plays the game. 13:41:10 <supermop> damn it 13:42:33 <andythenorth> nobody does scrum either 13:42:41 <andythenorth> everybody does âscrumbutâ 13:45:23 <frosch123> i was once on a 3-people team, and we were asked to try this "scrum" thing 13:45:33 <frosch123> then one of the 3 was assigned to some other project 13:45:42 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7342/windmill_granary_8.png 13:45:52 <frosch123> we did not continue to try it with 2 people :p 13:46:45 <frosch123> i would still put the vehicle on the west or east tile :p 13:46:56 <frosch123> but looks good otherwise 13:47:09 <frosch123> on the south tile it is too much exposed, which makes it look empty 13:47:26 <andythenorth> there are limited options for combining windmill + other buildings 13:47:45 <andythenorth> if the blades overlap roof areas of the other buildings, theyâre hard to see 13:48:47 <andythenorth> vehicle needs something drawn under it 13:50:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if the empty tile is always at the south, it looks not like a variation of the layout at all. 13:50:33 <andythenorth> hmm, letâs try east 13:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> at least for me, the empty tile trumps every permutation of the other three buildings 13:51:12 <andythenorth> these fast compiles are good eh? o_O 13:51:52 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7343/windmill_granary_9.png 13:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that is much better 13:52:31 <andythenorth> agreed 13:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and now randomize the direction of the windmill based on local wind patterns :p 13:53:44 * andythenorth needs a pleasing windmill sound effect :P 13:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> soomething wood-y? 13:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> modern wind power plants make a "fwoop" sound whenever a blade passes the pillar 13:55:34 <Alberth> woosh 13:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> dear cat. as adorable as you look sleeping with your feet up, i need this chair for sitting on, and you need to go away now. 13:58:28 <andythenorth> get two chairs 13:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd have two cats blocking both chairs then. 13:59:19 <andythenorth> silos at the grain mill? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1149800#p1149800 14:01:57 * andythenorth thinks yes http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Boston_Thompson's_Flour_Mill.jpg 14:03:36 <frosch123> those silos look a lot more modern than the house 14:03:41 <frosch123> so, no :p 14:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the grain silos i know are nowhere near a mill... 14:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> silos work well as a station building, though. 14:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i'm also against this change. 14:06:16 <frosch123> flour is also stored in silos 14:06:32 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: have a flour silo explosion disaster ;) 14:12:49 * andythenorth leaves silos out for now 14:13:59 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: compared to fluor? 14:14:25 <frosch123> i would prefer a flour silo over a fluor silo 14:14:38 <andythenorth> is fluor a cargo? :P 14:14:47 * andythenorth doesnât have enough cargo slots for it 14:15:26 <andythenorth> we should raise the limit to 127 14:15:33 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-184-37.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C27C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:40:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6AC58.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: quite probably :p 15:12:03 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no, i meant grain dust explosions... 15:12:56 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-97-133.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:15:11 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: as for fluor, maybe try one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckSoDW2-wrc ;) 15:16:29 <frosch123> well, make sure the silo is either full, or very empty 15:18:14 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:49 * andythenorth considers playing a game 15:31:56 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:31 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd 16:00:29 * andythenorth plays the game 16:02:15 <Alberth> :) 16:03:01 <andythenorth> Busy Bee no less 16:03:28 <Alberth> makes sense 16:20:07 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:39:28 *** shirish [~quassel@117.222.0.72] has joined #openttd 16:45:45 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [SeaMonkey 2.33.1/20150410200411]] 16:49:44 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.118.121] has joined #openttd 16:56:41 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:27 <andythenorth> eh 17:05:40 <andythenorth> FIRS secondary processing 17:05:44 <andythenorth> delivery window 17:05:54 <andythenorth> 30 days | 90 days | 365 days 17:05:56 <andythenorth> parameter? 17:06:19 <Alberth> 365 is a bit long? 17:07:12 <andythenorth> 180? 17:07:31 <Alberth> looks ok-ish to me :) 17:09:21 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.118.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:48:31 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:03:52 <andythenorth> hmm 18:04:11 <andythenorth> think itâs harder to change than I hoped 18:04:12 <andythenorth> eh nvm 18:07:52 <planetmaker> andythenorth, I pondered about that for FIRS long ago. I didn't find an appropriate solution beyond 1 month. Sadly, I have to say 18:08:07 <andythenorth> the production code switches would need duplicated 18:08:15 <andythenorth> and then switched depending on parameter 18:08:25 <andythenorth> itâs a bit ugly 18:08:35 <planetmaker> yes... but a floating average is very difficult. You quickly run out of storage 18:09:33 <andythenorth> maybe I just make the production window 60 days as a compromise 18:09:43 <andythenorth> I want to relax the 30 day limit a little 18:09:54 <andythenorth> eh, no, that still means changing all the switch code :P 18:09:55 <andythenorth> nvm 18:26:44 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-175-198.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 18:43:42 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@46.66.160.42.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:52:22 <Alberth> why period based? 18:52:46 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@77.16.23.108.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #openttd 18:53:13 <Alberth> ie stored provided supplies up to some max, and slowly eat it 18:53:26 <Alberth> if 0, go back to original production 19:01:52 <V453000> yay blender rendering set up :D 19:01:58 <V453000> only took 120379 hours 19:02:15 <Alberth> @calc 120379 / 24 / 365 19:02:15 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 13.7418949772 19:02:21 <Alberth> ok :) 19:02:36 <V453000> :) 19:05:05 <Alberth> but all blenders are go! great :) 19:07:52 *** newbie [kvirc@42.243.123.89] has joined #openttd 19:09:32 <andythenorth> Alberth: secondary industry not primary ;) 19:10:10 <Alberth> hmm, what is the problem? 19:10:43 *** openbu [~oftc-webi@42.243.123.89] has joined #openttd 19:10:47 <andythenorth> production is combinatorial for most secondary industry 19:10:58 <andythenorth> the âwindowâ is 30 days for delivering multiple cargos 19:11:11 <andythenorth> or so 19:11:22 <Alberth> ok 19:12:15 <Alberth> so what happens if I deliver cargo A 5tonnes, and 10 days later cargo B 8 tonnes? 19:12:45 <andythenorth> you get relatively more production from cargo B compared to the case where cargo A hadnât been delivered 19:13:02 <Alberth> makes sense 19:15:18 <Alberth> so the problem is that window? 19:17:42 <andythenorth> yup 19:18:37 <andythenorth> actually I might have found it 19:18:38 <andythenorth> PRODUCTION_SPAN 19:19:35 <andythenorth> just replace that with a parameter, done 19:20:26 <Alberth> another problem solved :) 19:20:41 *** jottyfan [~Icedove@p54B462D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:23:42 <andythenorth> there will be more ;) 19:24:07 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:29 <jottyfan> would like to understand the source code part of subsidies rejecting cargodist controlled cargo types, but cannot find that in wiki doc - and sources seem to be not that well documented... can anyone give me a little introduction please? 19:25:42 *** Rejf [rejf@nintendos.pl] has joined #openttd 19:27:04 <frosch123> it's in economy.cpp 19:27:24 <frosch123> and they are disabled because cdist might not route the cargo the way the subsidy requires it to go 19:28:10 *** openbu [~oftc-webi@42.243.123.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:46 <frosch123> nvm. it's actually in subsidy.cpp: SubsidyMonthlyLoop() 19:30:38 <jottyfan> ok, I have a look... 19:33:02 <jottyfan> found that function, but cannot find the check itself that disables the subsidy 19:33:24 <Alberth> find the commit, and look what changed? 19:33:48 <jottyfan> but I don't know when the change happened 19:33:51 <frosch123> jottyfan: settings_game.linkgraph.distribution* 19:33:53 <jottyfan> seems to be years old 19:34:06 *** newbie [kvirc@42.243.123.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:29 <frosch123> _settings_game.linkgraph.GetDistributionType 19:34:32 <andythenorth> hmm this game is fun 19:34:56 <Alberth> @commit 25882 19:34:58 <DorpsGek> Alberth: Commit by fonsinchen :: r25882 trunk/src/subsidy.cpp (2013-10-19 13:17:29 +0200 ) 19:34:59 <DorpsGek> Alberth: -Change [FS#5766]: Don't offer subsidies for auto-distributed cargo. 19:35:20 <Alberth> you can search commit log messages too :) 19:35:44 <jottyfan> ah 19:35:51 <jottyfan> r25882 19:35:59 <Alberth> or look at the commits that tocued the subsidy file 19:36:56 <jottyfan> I was looking at the history of subsidy.cpp, but I just have missed that one... 19:37:40 <jottyfan> so back to the question: the check to quit the subsidy is _settings_game.linkgraph.distribution_pax != DT_MANUAL 19:37:52 <Alberth> sounds right 19:37:53 <jottyfan> plus other checks != DT_MANUAL? 19:38:14 <frosch123> well, and GetDistributionType 19:38:31 <frosch123> the other ones are only pre-tests whether there is *any* cargo which is not distributed 19:41:18 <Alberth> what are you aiming to do? 19:41:23 <jottyfan> ok, thanks, that helped me a lot 19:41:39 <jottyfan> I just like to remove these checks locally and find out what happens 19:41:58 <frosch123> you should read fs#5766 about that :) 19:41:58 <jottyfan> I wonder why cargo dist should not accept subsidies 19:41:59 <Alberth> FS#5766 happens :) 19:42:25 <Alberth> in short, cdist has no clue about subsidies 19:42:27 <jottyfan> what is fs#5766? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=71214 19:42:38 <frosch123> @bugs 5766 19:42:38 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Temporary Offline 19:42:43 <frosch123> he 19:42:49 <frosch123> @flyspray 5766 19:42:51 <Alberth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5766 19:43:32 <frosch123> it's @fs :/ 19:43:46 <jottyfan> yes, I've read this article also 19:44:05 <jottyfan> but I wonder why a subsidy should not only work on direct routes 19:44:26 <jottyfan> if it doesn't work on routes from a to c over b, I'd accept that 19:45:17 <Alberth> it's more that a subsidy from a to c doesn't work for a - c - b passengers 19:45:48 <jottyfan> so if passengers from a to c get a subsidy, but passengers from a to b not, who cares? 19:46:37 <frosch123> different people, different opinions :) 19:46:45 <Alberth> what about z - a - c - b from z to c ? 19:46:47 <jottyfan> therefore, I can build my own trunc 19:47:08 <jottyfan> ok, let's assume I have a cargodist good passengers 19:47:17 <jottyfan> and have a network a - b - c - d 19:47:24 <jottyfan> and get a subsidy from a to c 19:47:50 <jottyfan> then, only passengers entering on a and quitting on c should get a bonus 19:48:10 <jottyfan> passengers from b to c not, and passengers from a to d also not 19:49:00 <Alberth> well the reporter of FS#5766 had a different meaning 19:49:38 <jottyfan> but at all, I'd also accept if that route would not work for that subsidy and only accept a train from a to c 19:49:46 <Alberth> both can be correct 19:50:35 <jottyfan> yes 19:50:45 <jottyfan> maybe, we've got two kinds of subsidies 19:51:07 <Alberth> who says there are only 2 solutions? 19:51:23 <jottyfan> yes... who says... 19:51:33 <jottyfan> but at least we have two 19:51:36 <Alberth> it needs a general solution that makes sense for everybody 19:51:54 <Alberth> we couldn't find one, and disabled subsidies 19:52:33 <jottyfan> but - I really like cargodist, I think this is one of the best improvements compared to ttdx, but missing subsidies is a big step backwards 19:52:49 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-81-131.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 19:53:03 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:53:12 <jottyfan> why not let the player choose if he wants subsidies on cargodist enabled? 19:53:37 <Alberth> why do you want subsidies? 19:53:40 <planetmaker> offering an option which potentially won't work *will* result rightfully in complaints and bug reports 19:53:59 <planetmaker> thus shipping something which is broken by design is not a good solution 19:54:10 <Alberth> if it's only for making the connection, you may want to try busy bee instead 19:54:24 <planetmaker> I would recommend to people like you to use a game script to give you some goals for transport and stuff 19:54:36 <planetmaker> like busy bee :) 19:54:53 <Alberth> or hack a better one :) 19:55:18 <planetmaker> or extent busy bee :) 19:55:35 <Alberth> hmm, not sure how much room there is in BB 19:56:01 <Alberth> maybe it got cornered too much by being non-competitive 19:56:10 <andythenorth> fork it! 19:56:35 <Alberth> BC! (bee competition) 19:56:38 <frosch123> noone forked busybee, despite both authors constantly requesting it :p 19:56:51 <planetmaker> bee -> busy bee -> capitalism bee -> burnout bee :P 19:56:57 <Alberth> bummer, and that after we decided to use eints :( 19:57:39 <frosch123> he, indeed, it took a hell of effort of the eints devs to convince the busybee devs 19:58:17 <planetmaker> :D 19:58:24 <frosch123> jottyfan: sorry about the in-jokes btw :) 19:58:30 <jottyfan> nevermind 19:58:43 <jottyfan> had a phone call and need to understand the chat history 19:58:44 <jottyfan> :-) 19:59:02 <jottyfan> so what's busybee? 19:59:22 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/busy-bee-gs 19:59:32 <Alberth> a script giving you things to do 19:59:53 <jottyfan> that's nice 20:00:02 <jottyfan> this could replace subsidies? 20:00:11 <Alberth> it's also at bananas 20:00:33 <Alberth> well, it depends on how you see subsidies 20:00:44 <frosch123> jottyfan: the hope is in general to move disputed things to scripts/newgrfs, so people can have whatever they want 20:00:45 <Alberth> BB doesn't give anything 20:01:00 <jottyfan> let me call subsidies jobs with a reward 20:01:21 <jottyfan> so if I can have goals without in game subsidies, that would be fine to me 20:01:29 <Alberth> the only reward it gives is a message "you won a goal" 20:01:34 <jottyfan> the reward could be a sum of cash 20:01:43 <Alberth> yeah 20:01:56 <Alberth> so you have this zillion dollar company, and you need more? 20:02:01 <jottyfan> no 20:02:22 <jottyfan> I have a credit and get a reward to get money 20:02:43 <Alberth> k 20:02:55 <Alberth> in that case, BB wont' work 20:03:17 <jottyfan> because of the reward? 20:03:23 <frosch123> but you can also fork BB and add money rewards :) 20:03:23 <Alberth> yep 20:03:43 <jottyfan> sounds nive 20:03:45 <jottyfan> nice 20:03:56 <jottyfan> I'll have a look, thanks for the hint! 20:04:15 <Alberth> yw, and publish it so we can play it too :) 20:18:35 <jottyfan> of course 20:21:13 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:23:34 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:20 <andythenorth> will nmlc actually process #includes? 20:29:30 <andythenorth> it seems to understand them somewhat when reporting errors 20:29:41 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.97.28] has joined #openttd 20:44:09 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-175-198.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 20:46:01 <frosch123> it processes the #line which are output by the preprocessor 20:53:53 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-81-131.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:10:07 *** newbie [kvirc@42.243.123.89] has joined #openttd 21:10:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f745881.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:21:14 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:21:17 *** Geth [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 21:27:17 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:35:55 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 21:36:02 <George> Hi. 21:36:08 <George> According to https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6314 21:36:42 <George> The NFO file was generated automatically from NML file 21:37:24 <George> How to find coresponding line in NML for the NFO warning/error string? 21:39:48 *** kais58 [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:49:10 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [] 21:54:42 *** jottyfan [~Icedove@p54B462D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: jottyfan] 21:59:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C27C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A180E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:46 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 22:29:28 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK 22:29:38 <Wolf01> 'night 22:29:47 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:32:28 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58 22:33:07 *** newbie [kvirc@42.243.123.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:53:31 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-184-37.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd