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Log for #openttd on 8th June 2015:
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06:36:49  <supermop> whoa i 'won' this game that i started last night
06:39:33  <Supercheese> but... the only winning move is not to play! ;)
06:49:17  <supermop> thats how i won!
06:49:32  <supermop> i came back from hours of being away
06:49:56  <supermop> and the newspaper thing was up with me as the top of the table in 2050
06:53:05  <Supercheese> a winner is you
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07:18:17  <supermop> now people are chatting about how jfk was a nazi so i think ill go ahead and leave the game
07:34:49  <V453000> playing on dumb servers is not the best idea :P
07:37:09  <Supercheese> the server isn't dumb, but rather the clientele
07:37:23  <Supercheese> errr, present company excepted
07:41:21  <V453000> the clientele is what make the server :)
07:53:27  <supermop> anyway
07:58:58  <supermop> hows it going?
08:04:57  <V453000> yeah
08:04:58  <V453000> busy weekend
08:05:03  <V453000> but good
08:09:15  <supermop> coo;
08:12:57  <V453000> I added more wood types and got some errors in the renders, but that should be easy to solve; I should have time for it tomorrow
08:22:19  <supermop> cool
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11:18:50  <argoneus> good morning train amigos
11:21:39  <V453000> wtf trainz
11:21:40  <V453000> noep
11:27:19  <supermop_> ?
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12:10:56  <Flygon> <Flygon> I still find it incredible that VR's D-class locos (the 1902 ones) were able to hit 120km/h...
12:10:56  <Flygon> <Flygon> They go faster than N-classes are suppose to today @_@
12:11:05  <Flygon> This book is amazing
12:16:42  <Hiddenfunstuff> what book ar you reading?
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12:20:16  <Flygon> Locomotives of Australia
12:20:22  <Flygon> Sooo many photos that're impossible to find online
12:20:31  <Flygon> And so much information that's impossible to find online
12:20:48  <Flygon> If anyone's doing an Australian loco and can't find info, I'm happy to help
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14:35:26  <Alberth> moin
14:43:57  <planetmaker> o/
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14:47:48  <Taede> ello
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14:57:09  <planetmaker> \o
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15:42:30  <Elec_A> Hello, I have a question. Why openttd graphics do not improve ?
15:42:52  <Hiddenfunstuff> there is no need for it?
15:43:21  <Hiddenfunstuff> and the graphics would become a issue in longer games with couple thousand trains..
15:43:31  <planetmaker> Hello, I have an answer: they're good or no-one made them such that you consider them better as before. Maybe you give it a shot yourself? It's all open source and free and tools available, too
15:43:34  <Hiddenfunstuff> *cough* co-op games *cough*
15:43:57  <planetmaker> Hiddenfunstuff, the graphics would not become an issue really... a bit more memory, but that works fine
15:44:30  <planetmaker> Elec_A, also it makes me wonder: which graphics *do* you use? There's 3 base sets and zillions of NewGRFs. So maybe you just do not use those which suit you better
15:45:06  <Hiddenfunstuff> the very default graphics, are bad tbh
15:45:07  <Elec_A> planetmaker: yes , you are right. as i know it is not possible to use as many as you want from NewGRFs graphics.
15:45:18  <Hiddenfunstuff> but the OpenGFX or whatever it is called.. is good
15:45:33  <planetmaker> Hiddenfunstuff, but graphics are no problem for coop games. The crucial point for those large games is the game logic which scales badly , not graphics
15:45:51  <Elec_A> it seems several newgrf conflict with each other.
15:46:09  <planetmaker> Elec_A, *that* was not what I was asking. And more NewGRFs don't give you better graphics, just more concurrent graphics styles, thus overall worse look
15:46:23  <planetmaker> and of course, NewGRFs do conflict. But that's not an issue either
15:47:26  <Hiddenfunstuff> Well i happened to pop in one coop game and boy it killed my machine if you werent all the way zoomed in
15:47:48  <planetmaker> Hiddenfunstuff, yes, but that's not a graphics issue but a CPU issue. Thus game logic
15:48:00  <Elec_A> planetmaker: I say if openttd graphics were like simcity4 (buildings , cars, roads , trees , ...). there won't be any other game that can compete Openttd .
15:48:06  <Hiddenfunstuff> yeah
15:48:52  <Elec_A> It would be the best game ever developed.
15:49:14  <planetmaker> Elec_A, so what's your point? What base set do you play with? Which NewGRF? Did you try zBase as base set? Did you ever use Pota-Ghat, Pineapple trains, rawr, egrvts2 as NewGRFs?
15:49:15  <Elec_A> However, Openttd is not just a game :)
15:49:32  <Elec_A> planetmaker: no , i have not tried them
15:49:34  <planetmaker> are you aware of the different styles of graphics available?
15:49:46  <planetmaker> so, please do.
15:50:17  <Elec_A> planetmaker: sure, thank you . are there any wikis available online for them ?
15:50:19  <planetmaker> defaults for OpenTTD probably won't change. But there's others, and you just need to pick the ones you like
15:50:43  <planetmaker> they might come with a readme, readable from ingame? And / or link you to their online documentation
15:50:51  <planetmaker> that's what those buttons ingame are for :P
15:51:39  <Elec_A> planetmaker: please suggest some right now. I think i will confuse if I want to try myself.
15:52:41  <planetmaker> https://wiki.openttd.org/Playing_with_32_bpp_graphics maybe
15:52:55  <planetmaker> and those which I listed, I can recommend them all
15:53:04  <planetmaker> they don't conflict and they touch different areas
15:53:36  <Elec_A> planetmaker: thank you ! :)
15:53:48  <planetmaker> welcome
15:56:19  <planetmaker> Elec_A, oh, search for yeti instead of rawr :)
15:56:37  <Elec_A> planetmaker: Ok thanks again :)
15:58:02  <Elec_A> planetmaker: there are two results for yeti , one is about 250 kb , and the other is about 180 Mb , which one is the one you mean ?
16:01:35  <Taede> the 180mb one would be my guesss
16:01:43  <Taede> hi-res gfx tend to take up space
16:02:31  <Elec_A> Taede: Ok, I'll get that
16:03:27  <Alberth> and people wonder why their computer gets so slow :p
16:04:17  <Elec_A> Alberth: what do you mean ?
16:04:44  <Elec_A> I am doing wrong ?
16:05:09  <Alberth> @calc 180000 / 250
16:05:09  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 720
16:05:35  <Alberth> you're using 720 times as much data to display mostly the same information
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16:05:54  <Alberth> so your computer does 720 times as much work
16:06:26  <planetmaker> Elec_A, do not download manually. Use ingame content download
16:06:42  <planetmaker> each of those I listed is conveniently available
16:06:55  <Alberth> since computer speed is finite, you pay for that somewhere else
16:07:17  <Elec_A> Alberth: oh yes, but if that does not cause any problem to game. I prefer to enjoy the game with higher graphics.
16:07:42  <Alberth> k
16:10:27  <Elec_A> Alberth: and I think this is nothing for a core i7 CPU. ;)
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16:11:45  <Alberth> being optimistic is always good
16:12:25  <Elec_A> :)
16:12:30  <Alberth> but it's very possible to hit the CPU limit with OpenTTD, even with original graphics
16:13:26  <Elec_A> really ?! No way ! It seems impossible .
16:13:38  <Elec_A> with 8 bpp graphics
16:13:41  <V453000> :)
16:14:35  <|Terkhen|> hello
16:14:48  <Alberth> Elec_A: graphics do take time, but it also has to compute where to display those graphics :)
16:15:11  <Alberth> hello, absolute terkhen
16:15:37  <|Terkhen|> :P
16:16:08  <|Terkhen|> my holiday absence must have made the bouncer forget about me
16:16:14  <Celestar> you can run into the CPU limit without even with the null renderer :D
16:16:14  <Alberth> :)
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16:18:41  <Alberth> less absolute now :)
16:19:01  <Terkhen> absolutism has never been my thing, yes :P
16:19:11  <Alberth> :D
16:19:25  <Alberth> how are you, busy with RL ?
16:19:51  <Terkhen> yes, doing too many things at once, as usual :)
16:20:07  <Alberth> ah yes, me too :)
16:20:08  <V453000> YO
16:21:00  <Alberth> there is too much fun stuff to look into, in the world
16:21:11  <Terkhen> indeed :)
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16:55:23  <Alberth> quak
16:55:46  <frosch123> hola
16:57:18  <Alberth> FS#6314 counts as NML bug?
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16:57:47  <frosch123> the behaviour? certainly not
16:57:56  <frosch123> about the warnings
16:58:13  <frosch123> /!!Warning (109): Offset 22: Property 27 is previously defined at offset 7. <- likely a bug in the grf source, which nml does not complain about
16:58:31  <frosch123> /!!Warning (113): All random options have the same ID. <- no error at all, but consequence of stupid newgrf specs
16:58:50  <frosch123> /!!Warning (132): Offset 5: Parameter 8D out of valid range for variable 60. <- no error, but unmaintained nforenum
16:59:08  <frosch123> /!!Error (85): This livery override action 3 does not follow a standard action 3. <- no idea, would have to look at the source :p
16:59:30  <frosch123> but all of that is definitely unrelated the the loading issue
16:59:56  <frosch123> possibly the loading_speed is set to zero or something silly :p
17:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause> loading_speed defaults to 0 for new vehicles
17:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you don't set it manually, it won't load anything
17:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the default values might need reviewing at some point
17:08:35  <Alberth> nml shouldn't allow 0, imho
17:09:38  <Alberth> if you override, and return a wrong value, ok. But a literal 0 can't be right ever
17:09:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it shouldn't be NML's job, though. it should be in the GRF-Specs
17:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. it should be openttd's job
17:10:27  <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1628
17:10:39  <Alberth> grf-specs thus :p
17:10:50  <Alberth> as openttd follows grfspecs
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18:38:25  <andythenorth> o/
18:40:10  <Alberth> moin
18:41:24  <andythenorth> licenses
18:41:32  <andythenorth> o what larks
18:41:52  <Alberth> forever a source of fun :p
18:42:16  <Alberth> how is the game?
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18:45:44  <andythenorth> eh not bad
18:46:17  <andythenorth> I have a 512x256 map
18:46:34  <andythenorth> FIRS has only built 1 or so of each major processing industry
18:46:42  <andythenorth> and the primaries are nicely distributed
18:47:15  <andythenorth> the whole map will end up inter-connected
18:47:27  <andythenorth> Busy Bee has mostly made good goal choices so far
18:47:41  <andythenorth> although it is low-balling some goals
18:47:51  <andythenorth> 200 tonnes of coal is a single trainload :P
18:48:21  <andythenorth> but 4,500 bags of mail to a tiny town seems excessive
18:48:36  <andythenorth> that’s an English thousands-comma, not a decimal separator :P
18:50:39  <Alberth> hehe :)
18:50:55  <Alberth> it likes loads of mail and pax :p
18:51:21  <Alberth> I have been wondering whether to add a restriction for them
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18:58:11  <andythenorth> are they just easily found?
18:58:14  <andythenorth> compared to industries?
19:04:29  <andythenorth> hmm
19:04:34  <andythenorth> when new road vehicles arrive
19:04:46  <andythenorth> do you just auto-replace all instances of the previous model?
19:06:02  <Alberth> BB first selects cargo randomly, ease of finding has no influence (unless other cargoes fail)
19:06:35  <Alberth> mostly I replace only when needed
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19:07:13  <Alberth> which is either when I need a little more power, or when models become unavailable
19:07:15  <andythenorth> it seems really boring to just upgrade all
19:07:23  <andythenorth> it’s rote
19:07:43  <andythenorth> I don’t upgrade all planes or trains or boats
19:07:43  <Alberth> I can't be bothered to setup groups and routes
19:07:47  <andythenorth> me neither
19:08:00  <andythenorth> it’s one of the things that makes RVs relatively bland I think
19:08:11  <Alberth> I hardly play with RV
19:08:30  <Alberth> only when it's ridiculously near by
19:08:43  <Alberth> or with pax
19:08:50  <Alberth> in a city center
19:09:54  <andythenorth> I am missing HEQS in this game
19:10:04  <andythenorth> trucks are more useful when they are ~100t
19:10:16  <andythenorth> Road Hog has few of those, at least in the Brit roster
19:17:49  <V453000> I like how all of blender controls have to be completely different to any other software I have used :D
19:21:22  <frosch123> what colour do they have?
19:21:42  <V453000> yes
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19:38:02  <Wolf01> hi hi o/
19:38:14  <frosch123> ciao
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19:47:05  <andythenorth> eh
19:47:17  <andythenorth> anyone want to make the FIRS production window a parameter? o_O
19:47:25  * andythenorth is all coded-out on FIRS right now :P
19:47:49  <andythenorth> it’s a bit of action 14, and changing a switch
19:48:04  <andythenorth> and switching strings appropriately in industry window
19:51:05  <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvcvuh3rq <- see, i still have that paste :p
19:52:22  <andythenorth> keep that handy
19:52:29  <andythenorth> this is for secondary production though
19:52:31  <andythenorth> ;)
19:52:37  <andythenorth> I want a 90 day window
19:52:43  <andythenorth> I am hauling about 400 tiles
19:52:57  <andythenorth> this is not Just In Time delivery :P
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20:31:37  <andythenorth> what’s the maximum range for routing trains?
20:33:44  <frosch123> what's a maximum range?
20:33:49  <frosch123> only planes have a maximum range
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20:36:55  <andythenorth> got some trains won’t route to far away stations
20:37:40  <frosch123> wrong railtype?
20:37:42  <andythenorth> they indicate the next destination correctly, but they’re stuck going in and out of depots
20:37:47  <andythenorth> probably signals
20:37:54  <frosch123> do they need to reverse in stations?
20:37:56  <andythenorth> maybe a bad one way somewhere
20:38:00  <andythenorth> no reversing
20:40:09  <Terkhen> good night
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22:37:35  <Wolf01> 'night
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