Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:37:22 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-175-158.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:42:47 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:45:12 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has joined #openttd 00:48:07 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 01:13:57 *** EXetoC [~exe@109-124-185-221.customer.t3.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:18:45 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.97.28] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is considered as an innovative and versatile Irc client. Check by yourself at www.adiirc.com] 02:05:38 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:16:18 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:58 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 03:11:57 *** DDR_ [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 03:11:57 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:17 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:28:43 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:26 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 04:40:10 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:14 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6682D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD58D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:03:10 <supermop> yo 05:53:12 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 06:41:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:41:55 <andythenorth> o/ 06:42:28 <andythenorth> oh cargodist :P 06:42:31 <andythenorth> how you taunt me 06:48:36 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 07:12:22 <andythenorth> hmm 07:12:49 <andythenorth> so cdist and distributing from secondary industries 07:12:56 <andythenorth> seems the best way is to build a station per destination 07:13:05 <andythenorth> and let OpenTTD handle the cargo allocation according to station rating 07:26:14 <peter1138> cdest! 07:28:44 <andythenorth> yacd 07:28:57 <andythenorth> :P 07:31:44 <peter1138> Bah, audio CD with cracks in it, has read errors. NOT at the cracks... 07:34:20 <andythenorth> ha 07:34:53 <andythenorth> âunlike vinyl, CDs are virtually indestructible, and will never skipâ 07:35:18 <peter1138> It plays in a regular player. 07:35:42 <peter1138> But when ripping them I prefer to get them as correct as possible. 07:41:42 <andythenorth> bbl 07:41:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:41:52 *** DDR_ [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:11 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 07:52:15 <supermop> hmm should i build a deltic or 47 for this mail train 07:52:30 <supermop> 1987 so both seem a bit old 07:54:05 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54faa7-102.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 08:17:03 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:42 *** NumberNoid [~NumberNoi@cpc3-sgyl30-2-0-cust193.sgyl.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:32:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:18 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 08:34:12 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:38:23 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:44 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 08:39:54 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41:18 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 08:46:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 08:52:13 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@141.157.199.146.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:26 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@141.157.199.146.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 08:55:22 *** xQR [xor@the.x-base.org] has quit [Quit: www.x-base.org] 08:55:50 *** xQR [xor@the.x-base.org] has joined #openttd 08:56:05 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:56:38 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> weber.oftc.net quits: TinoDidriksen, Vadtec, NGC3982, tycoondemon, Sacro, NumberNoid, KouDy, Sylf, __ln__, funnel 08:59:36 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 08:59:39 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:00:21 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:04:06 *** Pikka [~sammich@124-170-101-81.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:05:37 *** Netsplit over, joins: NumberNoid, TinoDidriksen, tycoondemon, Sacro, KouDy, NGC3982, funnel, Sylf, __ln__, Vadtec 09:22:26 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 09:28:32 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 09:48:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 09:48:32 <andythenorth> has anyone got a working daylength patch? 09:52:59 <peter1138> Days are already longer. Wait til December. 10:04:06 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 10:07:41 <Eddi|zuHause> https://xkcd.com/320/ 10:07:55 <dihedral> oi 10:07:56 <dihedral> o/ 10:08:01 <dihedral> :) 10:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> warning: untested :p 10:09:23 <andythenorth> well played 10:09:57 * andythenorth ponders a 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x intro date multiplier for Iron Horse 10:18:29 *** EXetoC [~exe@109-124-185-221.customer.t3.se] has joined #openttd 10:39:33 *** Pikka [~sammich@124-170-101-81.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:40:55 <Alberth> o/ 10:41:03 <Pikka> moin 10:42:38 <V453000> hy 10:53:33 <andythenorth> lo Pikka bob 10:53:35 *** jottyfan [~Icedove@p54B46D95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:53:44 <andythenorth> what industries do you Australian types need? 10:54:15 <jottyfan> hi again, about subsidy in busybee- game script 10:54:35 <jottyfan> I've a working solution but could not translate all the language files except english and german 10:55:11 <jottyfan> where can I put my git repo with all the content so that the developer of busybee can include it if accepted? 10:56:23 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:04 <Pikka> hello 11:00:27 <Pikka> Australians need... um... 11:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to translate to every language known to man... 11:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i assume there's a devzone entry for busy bee, where you can open a ticket 11:01:56 <jottyfan> got that page 11:01:58 <jottyfan> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/busy-bee-gs 11:02:43 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 11:02:44 <jottyfan> do you think I can just clone this repo, make a branch, add my changes and push it? 11:02:56 <jottyfan> or is this too rude? 11:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you won't be able to push 11:05:36 <jottyfan> am I not? ouch... 11:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> make a patch, and attach it to a ticket 11:05:55 <planetmaker> jottyfan, you need to apply for a project and give us your public key. 11:06:14 <planetmaker> I'm pretty sure also that busy bee repo is a mercurial one 11:06:25 <planetmaker> as translation services work exclusively with mercurial 11:07:03 <jottyfan> this turns out to become complex 11:07:13 <planetmaker> if you want to branch / fork: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/issues/new?tracker_id=6&issue[subject]=Applying%20for%20project:%20%3Cname%20here%3E&issue[priority_id]=7&issue[watcher_user_ids][]=4&issue[watcher_user_ids][]=3&issue[watcher_user_ids][]=115&issue[watcher_user_ids][]=254&issue[description]=Hello,%20I%20would%20like%20to%20request%20a%20project%20on%20your%20DevZone,%20my%20work%20is%20or%20will%20be%20GPL%20and% 11:07:13 <planetmaker> 20therefore%20legitimate%20to%20be%20hosted%20from%20you.%20More%20infos%20follows: 11:07:15 <planetmaker> hm... 11:07:34 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home <-- link is there :D 11:07:43 <Eddi|zuHause> could use an url shortener :p 11:07:47 <planetmaker> yeah :P 11:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc there were shortened urls for some of these things 11:08:21 <planetmaker> yes 11:08:25 <Flygon> Pikka: Wool 11:08:26 <Flygon> Grain 11:08:33 <Flygon> Wheat, in particular 11:08:35 <planetmaker> I created them somewhen... and forgot :D 11:08:35 <Flygon> Fish 11:08:42 <Flygon> Cattle 11:08:46 <jottyfan> ok, I'll have a look, thanks 11:08:47 <Flygon> Uuuh... 11:08:51 <Flygon> Kangaroo? 11:09:13 <planetmaker> it's only a rewrite rule, thus using the browser to c&p didn't work. But here's the short one: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/ask_new_project 11:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: none of these are industries 11:10:44 <Flygon> True. They're Cargo 11:10:46 <jottyfan> so I have to register before I throw out a new branch? 11:10:50 <Flygon> Industries... 11:10:51 <Flygon> iunno 11:11:00 <Alberth> jottyfan: do you have a patch? 11:11:18 <Flygon> Are we allowed to designate Collingwood's Apartment Towers as an Industry that generates Bogans, Refugees, and Asians? 11:11:24 <planetmaker> jottyfan, a page which allows pushing anything without registration probably still needs invention. Or is a malware site 11:11:27 * Flygon runs away. VERY quickly. 11:11:37 <planetmaker> or a paste service 11:12:26 <peter1138> You might get a maintainer to pull from you without registration 11:14:27 <planetmaker> peter1138, though that would be probably similar hassle as walk him through registration and providing a key to push himself :) 11:14:35 <jottyfan> so if I put the tar with the new version to my homepage, planetmaker, you could load it, check it and make it available to the community? 11:15:12 <planetmaker> I'm site admin at devzone, but not one of the busy-bee maintainers 11:15:14 <Alberth> planetmaker: push? 11:15:36 <planetmaker> Alberth, to his own repo. Not yours :) 11:15:54 <planetmaker> I would not dare allow that w/o your permission 11:16:40 <Alberth> I am confused how that helps tbh 11:17:23 <Alberth> apparently there is a git repo already 11:17:29 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:17:33 <planetmaker> jottyfan, in order to understand what you provide: is it a change to busybee which you want to see implemented there? Is it your own version of busy bee which you want to give to players? Start a fork of busy bee to continue development? 11:17:40 <jottyfan> @Alberth: I've extended the busy bee game script to recieve rewards after delivering cargo to come closer to subsidies 11:17:52 <Alberth> k 11:18:26 <jottyfan> I wonder if it should be a fork or extend busy bee - let the decision up to the developers 11:18:32 <jottyfan> it's just a very small extension 11:18:44 <Alberth> k 11:18:51 <Alberth> do you have a patch? 11:19:04 <jottyfan> I don't want anything for it, just publish it so that others may use it too 11:19:09 <jottyfan> I could make a patch 11:19:19 <jottyfan> of all the files I changed 11:19:22 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:19:23 <planetmaker> I can give you a repo at the DevZone, no problem. Maintaining that repo... not something I fancy (i.e. won't happen). Publishing to players: best do yourself via bananas 11:20:10 <planetmaker> DevZone can provide git repos, but they're not supported in any manner for translations or bundling 11:20:21 <planetmaker> nor build services 11:20:25 <jottyfan> and if I just put it to my homepage, give you the link and you can do whatever you want with it? 11:22:05 <Alberth> if you publish anything, please give it a different name first 11:22:25 <andythenorth> jottyfan: fork 11:22:39 <andythenorth> Busy Bee is explicitly no reward ;) 11:22:39 <peter1138> Spoon. 11:22:40 <planetmaker> if you ask me: well, sure, you can do that. I then recommend to share that link in the appropriate forum thread. And be so kind towards the original maintainer of busy-bee (aka Alberth) to rename it thus :) ) 11:22:42 <andythenorth> forks are invited 11:22:49 <andythenorth> also spoons 11:23:36 <andythenorth> reward-bee :P 11:23:45 <andythenorth> cash-rewards :P 11:23:52 <Alberth> jottyfan: if you want BB-devs (me & andy) to have a look, please provide a patch. Otherwise, you can fork, and publish yourself 11:24:19 <jottyfan> ok, so I create a patch of all the files I changed and publish it to my homepage? 11:24:48 <jottyfan> doing this under linux by patch file.original file.changed or differently? 11:24:48 <Alberth> use https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ ? 11:24:49 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:11 <jottyfan> for the patches? I could... 11:25:19 <planetmaker> jottyfan, didn't you use git for your development? then use its diff command 11:25:33 <jottyfan> git diff? I can do also 11:25:52 <Alberth> that's why you want to have a VCS :) 11:25:57 <planetmaker> ^ 11:27:04 <Alberth> but otherwise, you need an original and a change directory with everything in it (and nothing else), and run a diff -u --recursive orig_dir new_dir 11:27:17 <Alberth> git diff is an order of magnitude simpler though 11:28:45 <jottyfan> yes 11:28:51 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 11:28:52 <jottyfan> git diff original-repo-ID 11:29:02 <jottyfan> but I've found the original first... :-D 11:29:11 <Alberth> hopefully you tagged the branch :) 11:29:29 <jottyfan> no 11:29:37 <jottyfan> git log shows the changes 11:29:50 <jottyfan> but what's the first git id before I did any change 11:29:53 <jottyfan> ? 11:29:53 <Alberth> yeah, but you have to search manually :) 11:30:12 <Alberth> the one at the bottom of git log :p 11:30:32 <jottyfan> no, seems not to be the right one 11:30:34 <Alberth> git hashes are just random, no pattern in them 11:30:40 <jottyfan> I must have made some mistakes using git 11:31:07 <planetmaker> well, or you didn't start with an unmodified version :) 11:31:19 <jottyfan> so again: get the original sources, copy my changes into them and commit and make git diff afterwards? 11:31:21 <planetmaker> after all, the original cannot have been git 11:31:47 <planetmaker> simply get a checkout of the original source and then use the command alberth gave to compare the two dirs 11:32:12 <Alberth> use an export or archive thingie to prevent .git stuff 11:32:38 <Alberth> unless you want a patch with all the .git files :p 11:32:52 <jottyfan> I used the busy bee tar file inside .openttd 11:32:59 <jottyfan> the original one 11:33:09 <jottyfan> then made a git repo out of it 11:33:12 <jottyfan> changed the files 11:33:17 <jottyfan> and committed 11:33:20 <Alberth> that's not entirely source, but fair enough 11:33:24 <jottyfan> this diff is the right one? 11:34:59 <planetmaker> you can better judge that: is it the entirety of thins you changed? 11:35:02 <jottyfan> or better wget http://hg.openttdcoop.org/busy-bee-gs as source? 11:35:05 <planetmaker> *things 11:35:18 <jottyfan> and then make it git repo 11:35:22 <jottyfan> add my changes and commit 11:35:25 <jottyfan> and then git diff? 11:35:34 <Alberth> if you started with the tar, do that again 11:36:01 <jottyfan> ok 11:36:44 <Alberth> unpack the tar, and export your copy to a new directory to get rid of the .git files etc 11:37:12 <Alberth> then you can run a diff between both directories 11:38:05 <Alberth> diff --recursive --brief unpacked_dir git_copy gives a list of changed files, so you can see whether the expected files are there 11:39:00 <Alberth> that diff output should only contain files that you want in the patch 11:39:37 <Alberth> the patch itself is created with diff -u --recursive unpacked_dir git_copy > mypatchfile.patch 11:40:22 <Alberth> and you can open that mypatchfile.patch to see if it is what you expect 11:40:30 <jottyfan> ok, it'll take a bit of time 11:40:45 <Alberth> when happy, post that patch at a paste service 11:41:10 <Alberth> yeah, a git branch tag is really useful :) 11:41:38 <Alberth> something for the next time :) 11:45:45 <jottyfan> argh 11:45:55 <jottyfan> the diff is in german - is this a problem for you? 11:47:19 <Alberth> eventually, yes, project should have a single language, imho 11:47:26 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:47:36 <Alberth> but code should work, shouldn't it? 11:48:01 <jottyfan> yes 11:48:11 <jottyfan> diff -u --recursive unpacked_dir git_copy > mypatchfile.patch 11:48:22 <jottyfan> gives only the name of files that changed, not the changes itself 11:48:49 <Alberth> nice :p 11:48:50 <jottyfan> maybe I'd better go the git way? 11:48:55 <Alberth> which diff ? 11:49:08 <Alberth> perhaps you have an alias with --brief in it? 11:49:52 <jottyfan> that's the folders: BusyBee-RC2M (the original one) and BusyBeeSubsidy (the changed one) 11:50:01 <Alberth> you can try using the executable directly 11:50:03 <jottyfan> this is the command: diff -u --recursive BusyBee-RC2M BusyBeeSubsidy > BusyBeeSubsidy.patch 11:50:20 <jottyfan> the result is just the files that changed, not the content of the files 11:51:05 <peter1138> git diff <branch> 11:51:31 <Alberth> you only get changes like https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plu1nyid8?/plu1nyid8 11:51:42 <Alberth> peter1138: he doesn't have an original branch tag 11:51:52 <peter1138> git diff master 11:52:00 <peter1138> If you were working in master... shame on you. 11:52:15 <jottyfan> no, I did a branch but merged back to master... 11:52:34 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 11:53:33 <andythenorth> eh? 11:53:42 <andythenorth> if you have the changes, and you have Busy Bee, this is trivial no? 11:53:54 * andythenorth is missing something 11:54:17 <Alberth> you can try /usr/bin/diff instead of just 'diff', ie the absolute path to the 'diff' program 11:54:35 <jottyfan> I do it the git way 11:55:23 <Alberth> andythenorth: you're missing 'experience' :p 11:55:32 <jottyfan> this is much better 11:55:57 <jottyfan> ok, so I put the diff (thats 7688 bytes long) to? 11:56:22 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ is fine 11:56:38 <Alberth> or some other paste service 11:57:35 <jottyfan> ok, here's the link (available for 30 minutes): https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pncanzecb 11:58:45 <jottyfan> hope that's good enough for you to have a look at it... 11:59:43 <Alberth> only one problem, you're not preserving old news if rewards are disabled 12:00:08 <Alberth> oh, you can't even disable it 12:00:55 <jottyfan> I didn't check every option 12:00:57 <jottyfan> my fault 12:01:05 <Alberth> I would recommend you add value 0 as well, and in that case revert to original behavior and news 12:01:09 <Alberth> and messages 12:01:09 <jottyfan> just tried it and it worked 12:01:27 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-142-168.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 12:01:35 <Alberth> it can't work, you changed the messages 12:02:07 <Alberth> the " and earned {STRING}{CURRENCY_LONG}" part should be fully optional 12:02:14 <jottyfan> but I could offer if reward > 0 GSText(label1) else GSText(label2) 12:02:28 <Alberth> yep, would be fine 12:02:33 <jottyfan> ok, I can do 12:02:49 <Alberth> also for the goals of course 12:02:51 <jottyfan> but I can just provide the german and english version 12:04:23 <Alberth> oh, that's fine 12:04:50 <Alberth> I only provide the english version normally, the other languages are handled by translators 12:05:24 <jottyfan> but what happens if I add a new language key that doesn't exist in others translations? 12:05:34 <jottyfan> shouldn't the game script crash? 12:05:54 <Alberth> it reverts to the base language, ie english 12:06:02 <jottyfan> ok 12:06:15 <Alberth> and the translator is notified of missing translations 12:06:29 <jottyfan> so english is must have, all other languages are nice to have? 12:06:43 <Alberth> yep 12:06:46 <jottyfan> great 12:07:00 <jottyfan> when I'm ready, I'll come back to irc and tell about 12:07:09 <Alberth> {GOLD} in STR_COMPANY_GOAL looks wrong 12:07:11 <jottyfan> it'll take a while 12:07:19 <jottyfan> what's wrong about that? 12:07:37 <Alberth> the 'for' tex colour should be the same as the leading text 12:07:45 <Alberth> *text 12:08:23 <jottyfan> default is ORANGE? 12:08:31 <Alberth> {GOLD}{CARGO_LONG} <-- that changes the colour of the cargo amount, relative to the leading text 12:08:56 <Alberth> don't know exactly, source should tell that, and otherwise, just try :) 12:09:40 <jottyfan> seems to be orange 12:09:46 <Alberth> ok :) 12:09:55 <jottyfan> it's not in the english.txt 12:10:00 <jottyfan> what's default color 12:10:43 <jottyfan> so how to name the new language keys? 12:10:51 <Alberth> it's not in the .nut file? 12:10:56 <jottyfan> is it betetr to include the keys in others or clone the keys? 12:11:18 <Alberth> andythenorth: do you have any problem with adding optional reward money to BB ? 12:12:02 <Alberth> probably better make a new string, so translators have freedom to re-arrange wording 12:12:28 <jottyfan> so STR_COMPANY_GOAL cloned to STR_COMPANY_GOAL_SUBSIDY ? 12:12:44 <Alberth> sure 12:12:48 <jottyfan> STR_SUBSIDY_REWARD to be included in STR_COMPANY_GOAL 12:12:49 <Alberth> or _REWARD 12:13:20 <jottyfan> it's 3 language keys I changed, so I do 3 clones 12:13:21 <Alberth> now you lost me 12:13:39 <jottyfan> I could also do what cargo_long does 12:14:28 <Alberth> no idea what you mean, just add 3 new strings 12:14:36 <jottyfan> create STR_GOAL_REWARD as for {WHITE}{STRING}{CURRENCY_LONG} and include that in STR_COMPANY as {STRING} 12:14:59 <Alberth> not good 12:15:12 <jottyfan> but it's done that way several times 12:15:24 <Alberth> translators want to move stuff around in the sentence to fit their language 12:15:41 <Alberth> and by making sub-strings, you make that very difficult 12:15:42 <jottyfan> ok, so better real clones 12:15:57 <jottyfan> and have some duplicates in translation 12:16:20 <Alberth> well, they get 'related strings', it's copy/paste from the web page, mostly :) 12:16:31 <jottyfan> ok 12:16:36 <jottyfan> so just to be sure: 12:16:51 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:17:01 <jottyfan> STR_COMPANY_GOAL_REWARD :Deliver {GOLD}{CARGO_LONG} {ORANGE}to {STRING}{ORANGE} for {WHITE}{STRING}{CURRENCY_LONG} 12:17:01 <jottyfan> STR_COMPANY_GOAL :Deliver {GOLD}{CARGO_LONG} {ORANGE}to {STRING}{ORANGE} 12:17:04 <jottyfan> that way? 12:17:28 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:17:33 <Alberth> yes, but drop "GOAL_ in the first one? 12:17:47 <Alberth> you want to align all : 12:18:19 <jottyfan> it still fits 12:18:29 <jottyfan> even with STR_COMPANY_GOAL_REWARD_NEWS 12:18:33 <Alberth> ok, no problem then 12:18:39 <jottyfan> need no spaces before : 12:18:40 <jottyfan> ? 12:18:50 <Alberth> no, afaik 12:19:19 <jottyfan> doesn't work for STR_COMPANY_GOAL_WON_NEWS 12:19:25 <jottyfan> so either I add more spaces to all lines 12:19:38 <jottyfan> or (better?) I shorten REWARD by R? 12:19:45 <jottyfan> STR_COMPANY_GOAL_R_WON_NEWS 12:20:01 <Alberth> better, add REWARD, and I'll fix the alignment 12:20:23 <jottyfan> I can do also 12:20:32 <jottyfan> it's just spaces, isn't it? 12:20:44 <Alberth> alignment fixes make a long patch 12:20:57 <Alberth> it's harder to see what has changed 12:21:01 <jottyfan> I know 12:21:13 <Alberth> so it 's easier to make a 2nd commit with only whitespace fixes 12:21:18 <jottyfan> ok 12:21:30 <jottyfan> so I just break the length on that one line 12:21:39 <Alberth> k 12:23:45 <andythenorth> Alberth: I am not big on rewards, but if you want to 12:23:52 <andythenorth> I like the idea of no reward 12:24:24 <jottyfan> I like rewards because of the subsidy problem for the cargodist goods 12:24:31 <Alberth> I want to preserve not having a reward 12:24:43 <jottyfan> so I can have a kind of subsidy for cargodist goods too 12:24:58 <jottyfan> default be no subsidy factor? 12:25:09 <Alberth> so only extending 12:25:14 <Alberth> jottyfan: yes please 12:25:18 <jottyfan> ok 12:26:01 <Alberth> jottyfan: BB is not fixing that problem, it's just ignoring it 12:26:10 <jottyfan> yes 12:26:17 <Alberth> a better solution may be to disable cdist for such cargoes 12:26:18 <jottyfan> but It feels like fidex 12:26:33 <jottyfan> no, i like cargodist very much 12:26:40 <jottyfan> but I also like subsidies 12:27:49 <jottyfan> can I use c code in nut files? 12:27:51 <jottyfan> such as 12:28:08 <jottyfan> x < 0 ? do sth. : do sth. different? 12:28:26 <Alberth> the language is 'squirrel', version 2, to be precise 12:28:28 <jottyfan> instead of: if (x < 0) { do sth. } else { do sth.} 12:29:00 <Alberth> http://squirrel-lang.org/doc/squirrel2.html not highly readable I am afraid 12:29:04 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.97.28] has joined #openttd 12:29:10 <V453000> nutnut 12:29:50 <Alberth> http://squirrel-lang.org/doc/squirrel2.html#d0e942 it does seem to have ?: 12:30:21 <jottyfan> ok 12:31:17 <jottyfan> so for "local goal_text = ..." I need to replace it by if (...) { local goal_text = ... } else { local goal_text = ... }"? 12:31:35 <jottyfan> or do I have do declare goal_text in front of the if clause? 12:32:13 <jottyfan> seems that way... 12:32:43 <Alberth> you don't know ?: ?? 12:32:56 <jottyfan> I wonder 12:33:41 <Alberth> me too, you ask about ?:, then conclude it has to be replaced by an if statement :) 12:34:15 <jottyfan> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgvjppgxw 12:34:17 <jottyfan> that way? 12:34:54 <jottyfan> If I'd do it in java, I'd prefer local goal_text = reward > 0 ? GSText... : GSText... 12:34:57 <jottyfan> ist much smaller 12:35:37 <Alberth> I prefer the snippet, except for the string name that should be changed 12:36:05 <jottyfan> what string name? 12:36:09 <Alberth> and I'd write the call at one line :) 12:36:31 <Alberth> you use GSText.STR_COMPANY_GOAL twice, with a different number of parameters 12:36:42 <jottyfan> you're right 12:36:46 <jottyfan> I'll fix that 12:37:52 <jottyfan> what do you mean with "I'd write the call at one line" 12:37:58 <jottyfan> ? 12:38:13 <Alberth> merge lines 3 & 4, and 6 & 7 12:39:13 <jottyfan> how about that? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ps0kf68ix 12:40:15 <Alberth> lines 3 and 5 are supposed to start there? 12:40:15 <jottyfan> the line breaks come from original sources 12:40:37 <jottyfan> I corrected the spaces 12:41:00 <Alberth> original sources have very little meaning, imho 12:41:03 <jottyfan> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p5ye06shs 12:41:07 <jottyfan> that way? 12:42:10 <jottyfan> or better that way: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfscq5ay8 12:42:32 <Alberth> I'd add an empty line between the assignments, or put each call at one line vertically aligning the arguments 12:42:57 <Alberth> the primary point is readabilty 12:43:09 <Alberth> you want to see how things change in one look 12:43:26 <Alberth> now it's one big blob of text 12:43:36 <jottyfan> yes 12:43:44 <jottyfan> so what shoud I do exactly? 12:44:03 <Alberth> make it as good as possible 12:44:53 <jottyfan> :-) 12:45:06 <jottyfan> that's why I ask here in irc so much 12:45:16 <jottyfan> like a stupid script kiddie 12:46:43 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pupmly3he some options 12:47:26 <jottyfan> ok 12:47:42 <Alberth> play with alignment, try a few alternatives, until you find one that looks ok 12:48:23 <Alberth> the trick is not to read, just glance at it, and check whether it shows changes visually 12:48:50 <jottyfan> but this makes the diff more complex 12:49:20 <Alberth> yes, that's another trade-off :) 12:49:25 <jottyfan> :-D 12:49:38 <Alberth> but eventually, code layout quality wins 12:49:42 <jottyfan> ok, I'd give you what I have until now because of an upcoming meeting 12:49:43 <Alberth> as that stays 12:50:00 <jottyfan> just a minute, after that, I'm busy 12:50:01 <Alberth> k, bye :) 12:50:26 <Alberth> ha, one more minute BB coding :p 12:51:02 <jottyfan> :-) 12:51:12 <Alberth> jottyfan: no need to give partial stuff, I'll wait 12:51:19 <jottyfan> yes 12:51:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has left #openttd [] 12:52:36 <jottyfan> here it is 12:52:38 <jottyfan> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p4t1f1xq3 12:52:49 <jottyfan> hope this can make it to busybee 12:53:04 <jottyfan> cu 12:53:09 *** jottyfan [~Icedove@p54B46D95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 13:02:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03:20 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:55:48 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 14:39:24 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:44:11 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-175-158.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:47:56 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:10:08 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:25:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B080.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:32:48 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:27 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:45:33 <Terkhen> hello 15:51:15 <Alberth> o/ 16:39:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:50:32 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:55:42 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:55:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:59:13 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 17:07:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:17 <andythenorth> o/ 17:14:06 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:15:46 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has joined #openttd 17:20:51 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@187.59.97.28] has joined #openttd 17:27:16 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.97.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:27:22 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 17:32:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:19 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:47:15 *** CompuDesktop [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:8025:c802:5472:9987:1844] has joined #openttd 17:51:38 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:8025:c802:5472:9987:1844] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:58:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f741d89.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 18:05:01 <Alberth> o/ 18:06:40 <frosch123> hoi 18:14:43 <andythenorth> quak 18:19:22 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2001:8a0:ed44:5b01:6489:d765:49c6:96e5] has joined #openttd 18:25:06 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:27:33 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 18:27:48 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [] 18:32:59 <andythenorth> eh 18:33:12 <andythenorth> so how about extending newgrf spec with torque curve? o_O 18:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> what does that do? 18:33:50 <andythenorth> massively over-realistic vehicle physics 18:34:04 <andythenorth> primarily it reflects available gear ratios 18:34:11 <andythenorth> and / or engine characteristics 18:34:17 <Rubidium> then lets start with modeling hunting oscillations and wear and tear of tracks 18:34:39 <andythenorth> and the tyre inflation of RVs 18:34:56 <andythenorth> also road surface 18:35:13 <Alberth> bit silly without road types 18:35:57 <andythenorth> silly 18:36:10 * andythenorth was looking at the horsepower of Road Hog 18:36:56 <andythenorth> itâs getting quite divorced from reality :) 18:41:18 <Alberth> nah, reality is buggy :) 18:44:18 *** andythen_ [~andytheno@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:48:14 <andythenorth> who is andythen_ ? 18:49:06 *** andythen_ [~andytheno@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:23 <Alberth> problem solved :) 18:52:24 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:52:53 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 18:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but really, who is andy, then? 18:54:53 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:05 <andythenorth> important question 19:05:59 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 19:08:49 <andythenorth> eh, so multiple stations does work much better with cargodist at secondary industry 19:08:54 <andythenorth> interesting change of strategy :P 19:09:08 <andythenorth> usually the best approach is a single large station for pickup 19:10:40 <Alberth> :O 19:11:12 <Alberth> aren't just 2 or 3 stations getting anything? 19:11:18 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps with cdist not 19:14:06 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host160-198-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:20:26 <Wolf01> o/ 19:20:42 <Alberth> o/ 19:21:51 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:21:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 19:23:51 <andythenorth> with cdist, distributing outbound cargo from a secondary industry is pretty much broken for a single station case 19:24:13 <andythenorth> nearly all cargo is assigned to one route, leaving thousands of tons awaiting pickup, and all other routes waiting for cargo 19:24:25 <andythenorth> which also causes station blocking :P 19:24:51 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-53-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:07 <Alberth> ah, yes, you need waypoints to sort trains 19:27:20 <Alberth> and buffer storage of early trains 19:28:04 <andythenorth> donât think that affects cdist much though :) 19:28:18 <Alberth> so using stations as waypoints basically? 19:28:28 <Alberth> sounds easier :) 19:28:46 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 19:29:38 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:41:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:47:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19C80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:44 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2001:8a0:ed44:5b01:6489:d765:49c6:96e5] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:42 *** NumberNoid_ [~NumberNoi@cpc3-sgyl30-2-0-cust193.sgyl.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:02:02 *** NumberNoid [~NumberNoi@cpc3-sgyl30-2-0-cust193.sgyl.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:07:01 <peter1138> FSX at 4 fps is not fun :( 20:15:48 <_dp_> hi 20:16:22 <_dp_> is there some good way of storing some extra date in ttd savegame that doesn't prevent it from being loaded by unmodified game? 20:16:48 <_dp_> *data 20:17:54 <glx> yes in a new chunk 20:18:10 <glx> but it will be discarded by unmodified game 20:20:05 *** NumberNoid__ [~NumberNoi@cpc3-sgyl30-2-0-cust193.sgyl.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:21:26 <_dp_> hm, to me it looks like any unexpected chunks cause an error 20:21:43 <_dp_> ch = SlFindChunkHandler(id); 20:21:45 <_dp_> if (ch == NULL) SlErrorCorrupt("Unknown chunk type"); 20:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: moar power!! 20:24:34 *** NumberNoid_ [~NumberNoi@cpc3-sgyl30-2-0-cust193.sgyl.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: if you dig in the history, you might find stuff where releases got added data without changing the savegame version. not sure if that helps your cause 20:25:08 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: but that does not work in both ways :) 20:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> probably 20:26:29 <frosch123> _dp_: anyway, i guess the best method is to use gamescript data 20:27:05 <frosch123> you can likely just store whatever there 20:27:35 *** minexew [6def4e93@107.161.19.109] has joined #openttd 20:27:53 <frosch123> esp. in the language files of the gamescript 20:28:10 <frosch123> maybe you can even store a game script translation for a "new" translation 20:28:33 <minexew> hey, how do i bring attention to an issue in the bugtracker? 20:28:38 <minexew> i submitted a patch but nobody seems to have noticed :D 20:28:56 <_dp_> frosch123, hm, interesting idea, I'll try it, thanks 20:29:08 <frosch123> minexew: what makes you think noone noticed? 20:29:23 <_dp_> also was thinking of utilizing persistent storages 20:30:11 <minexew> frosch123: the fact that i got no reply 20:31:04 <minexew> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4449 20:31:07 <frosch123> ah, it's a windows patch 20:31:33 <frosch123> well, yeah, likely noone noticed 20:33:08 <frosch123> i am not sure whether we had an active windows dev this year 20:33:48 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:35:10 *** CompuDesktop is now known as Compu 20:35:14 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:8025:c802:5472:9987:1844] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 20:35:26 <minexew> so there's no point in submitting windows-specific patches? 20:35:29 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:8025:c802:5472:9987:1844] has joined #openttd 20:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> EU IV, which i played a lot recently, allows me to choose between "Fullscreen", "Windowed" and "Windowed Fullscreen", where the latter is basically what is described in that issue. don't know if that is a valid path for this game 20:36:33 <minexew> yeah, i didn't want to mess with the UI, so i made it implicit for the native resolution 20:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that sounds reasonable, but i'm not one that can help you getting this along... 20:37:23 <frosch123> it's the same on linux :) fullscreen is also just full-desktop without borders 20:37:38 <frosch123> well, at least on my machine 20:38:06 <minexew> even if you use a low-resolution fullscreen mode? 20:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have notable differences in behaviour between "fullscreen" and "windowed fullscreen", especially regarding alt+tab 20:38:23 <Eddi|zuHause> with the same resolution as native 20:38:58 <frosch123> minexew: i don't think switching video modes is allowed for the average application 20:39:28 <minexew> frosch123:who does the scaling then? 20:39:36 <frosch123> so, you may say, there is only borderless maximised, no fullscreen :p 20:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> namely, "fullscreen" will un-fullscreen to a window, and then minimize, upon alt+tab, whereas "windowed fullscreen" will stay fullscreenized in the background (making the switch less interruptive and faster) 20:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> whereas "windowed fullscreen" fails to actually set the fullscreen flag in the window manager, which i have to do manually on each start 20:40:50 <minexew> Eddi|zuHause:that's exactly why this is an issue in the first place :) alt-tab behavior for "fullscreen" is awful 20:42:53 <minexew> i guess i'll just roll my own fork then 20:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause> minexew: sure. but you now need people to test this on all sorts of windows versions out there 20:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and a dev to do a code review 20:43:28 * andythenorth -> bed 20:43:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 20:45:03 <frosch123> minexew: well, at some point the osx port turned so bad, that patches got committed unreviewer, assuming that they couldn't possibly make it worse :) 20:45:16 <frosch123> so, maybe the same will happen to the windows port 20:45:49 <minexew> i have poor experience with the os x port 20:45:59 <minexew> periodic spikes of CPU usage 20:46:09 <minexew> but that's been 1-2 years ago 20:46:32 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:40 <minexew> though i'm surprised there are no active windows devs 20:47:15 <frosch123> windows was always the minority here 20:47:21 *** DDR [~David@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:48:12 <frosch123> currently there are hardly 4 active linux devs 20:48:52 <minexew> using github for collaboration could help ;) 20:50:08 <minexew> the barriers to entry seem needlessly high here 20:50:57 <Rubidium> how are the barriers for github any less, when the main problem is someone doing a proper review? 20:51:30 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-142-168.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 20:52:01 <minexew> well for one, if more people can see your project, more people are likely to step up to do reviews 20:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> how would switching to github expose the project to more people than it already is? 20:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think exposure is the problem at all... 20:53:30 <minexew> github has a lot of social bullshit that helps with this 20:53:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like you going to the greek government and tell them "how about you go on kickstarter?" 20:53:42 <minexew> e.g. if you follow somebody and they star a project, you'll see that 21:03:53 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd 21:05:39 <Rubidium> the main problem with OpenTTD's development is its heritage. We don't really want to break things greatly as doing that means OpenTTD becomes something that is not based on Transport Tycoon. This makes the possible avenues of changes relatively small 21:06:33 <Rubidium> besides that, the issues that crop up aren't really interesting. It's mostly fighting with the subtle differences between different drivers and/or different versions of the same operating system, or just minor niggles 21:08:01 <Rubidium> furthermore OpenTTD has become quite stable, making merging unvetted things something that is rather frowned upon. As such someone with more or less proven knowledge of the affected components should review changes before merging them 21:08:23 *** nanoha-chan [~derp@van-app-svr.ad.v10networks.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:55 <minexew> but with huge maps and massive networks that were not possible in TT, some usability improvements would be surely welcome 21:08:57 <Rubidium> after all, I can easily review complex encryption algorithms that come from the NSA and not spot any problems with it, but that is mostly because I am to unfamiliar with the intricacies of the field and such 21:09:18 <minexew> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=53394 for example 21:09:55 <Terkhen> good night 21:10:25 <minexew> i can't imagine a reason why somebody would object to features 1-3 from that thread 21:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really about objecting to features 21:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it's checking implementations 21:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> is it error-free? is it maintainable by someone other than the author? 21:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause> does it disrupt anything that was there before? 21:13:34 *** nanoha-chan [~derp@van-app-svr.ad.v10networks.ca] has joined #openttd 21:13:50 <Rubidium> the second chunk of the first patch looks iffy 21:14:36 <Rubidium> and it seems to be done, so in the second patch exactly the wrong thing can be done 21:19:43 <minexew> Eddi|zuHause:what would you suggest as a solution to this lack of reviewers? 21:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> there are generally 2 ways to solve lack of staff: reactivate old staff or introduce new staff. the latter is not just done by exposing the project to more people, those new people must be active enough to prove valuable and capable of being introduced to the core staff to make such reviews 21:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause> bringing in too many new unexperienced people may even prove counterproductive, as there are not enough veteran people to weed things out 21:23:34 <minexew> sure 21:24:02 <minexew> but how are those new people supposed to prove themselves? by submitting patches that end up gathering dust? :P 21:25:26 <Rubidium> hint: solving existing bugs in an elegant manner will yield more points and faster "graduation" than cranking out many features but never finishing them. That is the basic functionality is there, but all the corner cases are a gaping hole. For example day length patch(es) 21:28:53 <minexew> from reading the forums i got the impression that nobody will bother reviewing a big patch, such as one needed for a significant change like that 21:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not really it. 21:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> huge patches did get reviewed, but it requires A LOT of patience and dedication on both sides 21:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> in the end, this is still a hobby project, which doesn't fit these two attributes very well 21:32:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and no amount of (throw buzzword in here) will change that 21:33:53 <Rubidium> not to mention the amount of times the answer of the author of the reviewed patch(set) was something amongst the like of: explitive, take it or leave it... you suck all the fun out of this patch 21:35:25 <Rubidium> and patch packs are somewhat detrimental to getting authors working on patches, because as soon as it is in a patch pack they often think they're done 21:36:24 *** nanoha-chan [~derp@van-app-svr.ad.v10networks.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:48 <minexew> well that should be no surprise, as it's much easier to get your patch into a patch pack than into trunk 21:37:04 <minexew> especially if it's of poor quality 21:43:26 <minexew> how difficult would it be to get something like the industry tooltips patch through, if the code was OK? 21:44:04 <Rubidium> and that patch set is quite bad as it requires 40 times more memory for network packages, meaning sending a 10 MiB map in MP requires 400 MiB of memory server side 21:44:23 *** nanoha-chan [~derp@van-app-svr.ad.v10networks.ca] has joined #openttd 21:44:55 <minexew> Rubidium:i get it, i didn't write that code and can't argue for its quality 21:45:10 <Rubidium> oh, it's even a factor 44.887 21:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> baker's 40, because you're such a good customer 21:47:04 <Rubidium> if the code was sane and elegant, then it mostly depends on when a core developer with knowledge of the area has time to review it but that should probably not take a hell of a lot of time 21:47:13 <Rubidium> and the latter is the main problem 21:51:08 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [SeaMonkey 2.33.1/20150410200411]] 21:52:47 <Rubidium> one might say that "everyone" wants to bolt new things onto OpenTTD, but nobody wants to maintain OpenTTD 21:55:27 <Rubidium> anyway... night 21:57:08 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f741d89.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:02:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:20 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:06:48 <_dp_> there is independent implementation of those tooltips in citymania (former novapolis) patchpack, if you like it I can make a separate patch for it 22:07:31 <_dp_> same goes for many other features from this patchpack 22:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: well, you're free to submit thos 22:13:22 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK 22:15:30 <_dp_> And I am submitting them sometimes, but I don't want to waste time on something that will just lay somewhere on flyspray turning to dust 22:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause> they may very well do that for a while, but you'll never know if you don't start 22:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> generally: the smaller and cleaner a patch is, the higher its chances of being reviewed 22:23:11 <minexew> _dp_:please do 22:23:40 <_dp_> it's not always about code, I don't think you need some citybuilder features no matter how good code is 22:24:34 <_dp_> for features that were made by me and whics I consider to have chances of being accepted I usually submit patches 22:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i think in the rarest case, features get rejected for the feature's sake 22:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes because it clashes with another feature (existing or future) 22:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and most of the features that would be rejected for the feature's sake never make it to any stage of implementation for this to take effect 22:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean things along the lines of "make it more violent" or "make it more like sim city" 22:30:31 *** minexew [6def4e93@107.161.19.109] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:31:28 <_dp_> well, mb it's the other way around, they never make it to that stage because they would be rejected anyway ;) 22:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, people have been telling that daylength patches won't be accepted because they're never going to be able to be polished enough to make it, yet people still attempted to make more daylength patches 22:44:27 <glx> and each try is as buggy as others ;) 22:52:30 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 23:11:42 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:22:04 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:16 *** NumberNoid__ [~NumberNoi@cpc3-sgyl30-2-0-cust193.sgyl.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:31:38 *** Pikka [~sammich@124-170-101-81.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:40 <Wolf01> 'night 23:43:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]