Log for #openttd on 20th June 2015:
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00:22:20  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:28:25  <Sziha> Hello everyone. Quick question, in the screenshot topic, do you think it's ok to put pictures in between the text, or it's better to keep them as attachments (so they don't load when opening the website, but then less people see them^^)
00:32:35  <Eddi|zuHause> if you embed pictures, make sure they are not too big (both resolution and size)
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00:33:59  <Eddi|zuHause> also, try to avoid linking to pictures on other servers like image hosters
00:35:05  <Sziha> yeah... that's what i thought ^^ there's no way for the forum to make a thumbnail of the picture i attached to the post?
00:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea, actually
00:36:10  <Sziha> well i couldn't find it so i guess not ^^ :)
00:36:10  <Eddi|zuHause> there are forums that make thumbnails, though
00:36:25  <Sziha> well i i'm thinking about ;)
00:36:37  <Sziha> anyway, thanks for help Eddi!
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01:44:17  <supermop> some australian rock star is in my house
01:44:24  <supermop> have no idea who this guy is
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01:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> if there only were a machine that could give you background information on people
01:58:00  <supermop> yeah reading his wikipedia page now
01:58:16  <supermop> i have never heard of this guy or any of his music
02:02:56  <supermop> oh well
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06:35:46  <andythenorth> o/
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06:46:01  <andythenorth> Pikka bonjour
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06:52:46  <Alberth> bonjour
07:00:55  <andythenorth> hmm
07:01:11  <andythenorth> my previous favourite vehicle set has 15 different box truck models
07:01:40  <andythenorth> and 16 different mail trucks
07:11:09  <andythenorth> hmm
07:11:15  <andythenorth> 1x GUI zoom is bonkers
07:11:18  <andythenorth> hwo did I ever use it?
07:11:30  <andythenorth> otoh, the vehicle sprites look way better in the buy menu at 1x :P
07:19:48  <Alberth> bigger GUI is just waste of screen space imho :)
07:20:27  <andythenorth> my eyes can’t see the small things any more :P
07:20:28  <andythenorth> also
07:20:42  <andythenorth> 1990 (with vehicle expiry on)
07:20:43  <andythenorth>
07:20:46  <andythenorth> too many vehicles?
07:35:22  <supermop> seems fine
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07:47:46  <Alberth> that's why I added 'hide' buttons :)
07:50:12  <andythenorth> 24 trucks
07:50:23  <andythenorth> default temperate climate has 20 at same point in time
07:51:05  * andythenorth not sure what the problem is
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08:01:25  <andythenorth> yair, so what stops us doing RoadTypes?
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08:11:01  <Alberth> don't know
08:11:07  <Alberth> is there a newgrf spec?
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08:11:23  <Alberth> if yes, is there a c++ patch?
08:11:56  <Alberth> hmm, maybe first, is some dev convinced there is a need?
08:13:40  <andythenorth> I think the last reason
08:13:47  <andythenorth> need / benefit / interesting project
08:13:56  <andythenorth> we have tried to spec it n times
08:14:06  <andythenorth> also
08:15:53  <andythenorth> V453000: will your trucks be RVs, or trains?
08:16:01  <V453000> sup
08:16:02  <V453000> RVs
08:16:12  <andythenorth> thought you hated RVs?
08:16:18  <Alberth> hmm, truck trains :p
08:16:20  <V453000> yeah but wanted to model them
08:16:22  * andythenorth considers doing RH as trains
08:16:43  <andythenorth> making RVs trains might be what players want
08:16:45  <andythenorth> signals
08:16:57  <andythenorth> road(rail)types
08:16:59  <V453000> I remembered what were the features, I basically just wanted parameters for purchase menu lists - you would either have 4 vehicles available (with refit, random colour), or separated by colour so you could buy individual colour, or separated by cargo, or by vehicle generations
08:17:12  <andythenorth> more varety for stations
08:17:16  <andythenorth> variety *
08:17:21  <Alberth> bbl
08:17:23  <andythenorth> diagonal roads
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08:17:49  <andythenorth> highways
08:18:01  * andythenorth also bbls
08:18:06  <andythenorth> this is probably a good plan though
08:18:18  <andythenorth> I’ll have to change all the offsets though :(
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08:34:12  <Terkhen> hello
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08:58:39  <Wolf01> moin
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10:22:18  * andythenorth converts all RVs to trains
10:23:04  <andythenorth> how can I teach towns to build a raltype instead of road?
10:23:08  <andythenorth> railtype *
10:23:31  <Alberth> very very tricky, probably
10:23:48  <andythenorth> also newgrf spec needs to change
10:24:06  <andythenorth> there are some tile checks which can check landscape type and get road
10:24:12  <andythenorth> but they need to get the railtype instead
10:26:20  <Alberth> currently you cannot even use any rail tracks than your own
10:26:47  <Alberth> so town built road would be unusable
10:27:22  <andythenorth> merge infrastructure sharing?
10:27:45  <Alberth> something in that direction would be required indeed
10:29:24  <andythenorth> might be worth it
10:29:29  <andythenorth> it does get us roadtypes for free
10:30:01  <Alberth> what is the point exactly about road types?
10:31:06  <Alberth> just more forms of road?
10:32:03  <andythenorth> same as railtypes
10:32:07  <andythenorth> more forms of route
10:32:18  <andythenorth> choosing route type is interesting
10:32:23  <andythenorth> choosing vehicle type is mostly boring
10:32:48  <andythenorth> mostly, the type of route chosen should entail the type of vehicles you get
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10:34:23  <andythenorth> FWIW, I want to add ‘haul roads’
10:34:31  <andythenorth> which are incompatible with normal roads
10:34:36  <andythenorth> and have to be fitted into the landscape
10:35:37  <Alberth> tbh I don't understand more railtypes either, I'd want less railtypes rather than more :)
10:36:03  <Alberth> canal wouldn't work I guess as it has no 'direction'?
10:39:10  <Alberth> but yeah, I can see having different forms of road could be nice to have
10:40:05  <Alberth> just copy railtypes over to road?
10:45:02  <andythenorth> there is some spec problem
10:45:09  <andythenorth> oh yeah, railtypes aren’t combinable
10:45:15  <andythenorth> but apparently roadtypes have to be
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10:47:09  <Alberth> if you want common infra structure, as eg built by towns, that would be quite useful
10:47:11  <Alberth> hoi
10:47:34  <andythenorth> quak quak
10:49:41  <frosch123> moin
10:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the proposed spec ideas had the notion that each tile has one "road-like" [e.g. cobblestone, asphalt] and one "tram-like" [e.g. trolleybus] roadtype on each tile
10:50:46  <frosch123> damn, why did i join? :p
10:50:47  <Alberth> why do road types need to be combinable, you'd just list the types with each vehicle?
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10:50:49  * andythenorth wonders if “tram-like” is why this got stuck
10:50:55  <Pikka> and what a terribly overcomplicated proposal that was, Eddi
10:51:02  <andythenorth> we broke frosch :(
10:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> where the "tram-like" type can define whether it can be combined with a road [tram], must be combined with a road [trolleybus] or can't be combined with a road [metro]
10:51:34  <andythenorth> seems even more complicated than railtypes
10:51:44  <andythenorth> tbh, as a newgrf author I don’t understand railtypes
10:51:53  <andythenorth> somebody else (foobar) set it up for me
10:52:02  <andythenorth> it seems to need reading pages of spec and discussion
10:52:16  <andythenorth> compatibility and such
10:52:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i rather think it doesn't go far enough
10:52:31  <andythenorth> speed limits, axle loadings, powered, unpowered
10:52:33  <Alberth> of course, lots of bike shedding to do here andy
10:52:50  * andythenorth would just have one roadtype per tile
10:52:51  <andythenorth> end of
10:52:55  <Pikka> doesn't it Eddi? what else do you think it needs?
10:53:27  <Alberth> number of sharp objects at this part, chance of puncture
10:53:33  * andythenorth wants “if you want to use these vehicles you’re going to have find space on your map for a new route"
10:53:54  <andythenorth> skid risk, chance of flying stones, maximum axle weight
10:54:00  <andythenorth> number of squirrels per tile
10:54:09  <andythenorth> chance of hitting a deer or a roo
10:54:12  <Pikka> single-layer roadtype. build over others roads iff all vehicles on that road can run on this road, cache the roadtype of the surrounding 4 tiles to do grf-magic for different roadtype intersections.
10:54:22  <andythenorth> “this truck has an axle loading of 22t, and roo bars”
10:54:23  <Pikka> that's the only sensible way to make it work imo
10:54:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you can't cross a trolleybus route with a tram route with this spec
10:54:39  <andythenorth> so don't
10:54:41  <andythenorth> :P
10:54:59  <Pikka> you can with mine :)
10:55:07  <andythenorth> you can’t build a ng track piece on the same tile as a standard gauge piece
10:55:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you run out of roadtypes with your spec :p
10:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: michi_cc had a patch for that
10:55:54  <andythenorth> meh, I don’t think it’s needed
10:56:15  <andythenorth> same as diagonal bridges and tunnels, overkill
10:56:20  <Pikka> road... hell, 8 flavours of road. tram with road, tram without road, trolleybus... I'm struggling to run out of roadtypes. :)
10:56:41  <andythenorth> road, haul road, tramway, electic tramway
10:57:01  <Alberth> high way
10:57:07  <andythenorth> over-rated
10:57:18  <andythenorth> speed limits on the route is a dumb idea
10:57:31  <Alberth> yeah, sure, just look at the screenshot forum :)
10:57:32  <andythenorth> it’s why all the railtype grfs seem so stupid
10:57:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i think highway or avenues have a place in this game, but they should be independent from roadtypes. they behave more like objects (with a state machine)
10:57:49  <andythenorth> +1
10:57:52  <Pikka> speed limits by different road surfaces if you must... still doesn't run out of roadtypes any time soon, if you have 16.
10:57:52  <andythenorth> the problem is overtaking
10:57:58  <andythenorth> nothing to do with roadtype
10:58:10  <andythenorth> (for highways)
10:58:12  <Pikka> better overtaking behaviour on one-way roads, perhaps?
10:58:19  <andythenorth> new state machine
10:58:29  <andythenorth> orthogonal to roadtypes
10:59:06  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: road decorations by foobar for example? would be nice if you can really drive of them
10:59:14  <Alberth> *over
10:59:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, something like that
10:59:29  <andythenorth> remove trams
10:59:33  <andythenorth> then it’s easier
10:59:37  <Pikka> trams are the problem, for sure
10:59:43  <andythenorth> trams are a problem
10:59:49  <Pikka> get rid of them, or rather reinstate them with the new roadtype spec
10:59:52  <Eddi|zuHause> trams are great
11:00:05  <Pikka> trams are great but the current implentation is terrible
11:00:26  <andythenorth> railtypes don’t have the tram problem
11:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> how would a different implementation not be terrible?
11:00:37  <Pikka> they should be like railtypes
11:00:50  <Eddi|zuHause> how so?
11:01:02  <Pikka> all roadtypes created equal, not a half-baked special case for tramlines
11:01:25  <andythenorth> ‘narrow gauge with maglev'
11:01:34  <andythenorth> would have worked excellently :P
11:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i'm not getting your point
11:02:07  <andythenorth> all the types have to be combinable with trams
11:02:12  <andythenorth> which makes it insane
11:02:38  <Pikka> and then people are (quite reasonably) going to want different kinds of tram lines too
11:02:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily make a flag "can't be combined with tram"
11:03:06  <Pikka> but tram shouldn't be a special case
11:03:12  <andythenorth> no
11:03:15  <Pikka> it should just become another roadtype
11:03:18  <andythenorth> it’s dumb
11:03:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: that makes it terrible and cumbersome to add tram to existing road
11:03:48  <Pikka> about as difficult as electrifying a railway line
11:03:52  <andythenorth> well
11:03:53  <Pikka> convert tool, drag
11:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> run tram over competitors road? never.
11:04:06  <andythenorth> perhaps electrifying should be done separate to railtype?
11:04:08  <Pikka> "build over others roads iff all vehicles on that road can run on this road"
11:04:09  <andythenorth> maybe railtypes is wrong?
11:04:46  <andythenorth> ho
11:04:50  <andythenorth> split the build tools?
11:04:56  <andythenorth> ‘build road'
11:04:58  <Pikka> if we hadn't had fudgey trams we could have had roadtypes not long after railtypes, I reckon
11:04:59  <andythenorth> ‘build tramway'
11:05:09  <andythenorth> ‘tramway cannot be built here'
11:05:16  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27300 trunk/src/group_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 13:05:11 +0200 )
11:05:17  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6306]: Silence GCC warning (Cif)
11:05:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i think the existance of trams easily trumps the benefits of roadtypes
11:06:27  * andythenorth thinks they should have been split
11:06:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll trade the current system of road+tram over a hacked "road with embedded tram" implemented as roadtype
11:06:39  <andythenorth> they’re different transport types that behave differently
11:06:48  <andythenorth> roadtypes, tramtypes
11:07:29  <andythenorth> one roadtype per tile, which may or may not be over-built with tramtype
11:07:55  <andythenorth> it’s weird, but all the other ways are insane
11:08:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that is exactly the proposal i'm talking about.
11:08:32  <andythenorth> trams are fundamentally different: they move differently, and they require a closed loop system
11:09:18  <andythenorth> that closed loop system could incidentally be used for pipelines as hax
11:09:26  <andythenorth> but that’s not relevant :P
11:10:14  <Pikka> alright
11:10:19  <andythenorth> to me the missing part in past discussion is the idea of splitting the build tool
11:10:39  <Pikka> let's do it then :D
11:10:58  <Eddi|zuHause> sure, get frosch to do it :p
11:11:06  <andythenorth> is spec? o_O
11:12:24  <Pikka> very
11:12:36  <Pikka> someone should write one
11:13:23  <andythenorth> I don’t understand all the compatibility crap
11:13:47  <andythenorth> also my spec would rule out axle weight limits, co-efficient of friction on road surface,
11:13:48  <andythenorth> etc
11:14:00  <andythenorth> might keep “number of roos per tile” though
11:14:10  <Pikka> friction might be nice
11:14:15  <Pikka> exle weight limits is dumb
11:14:31  <Pikka> actually friction might be boring
11:14:40  <andythenorth> speed limits?
11:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause> axle weight can be implicit info like with railtypes
11:14:43  <andythenorth> speed limits are stupid
11:14:54  <Pikka> yes
11:15:06  <Eddi|zuHause> speed limits, and a flag that town can't grow along highspeed roads
11:15:12  <andythenorth> or haul roads :P
11:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand your haul roads
11:16:12  <Pikka> flag for towns will grow, flag for towns will build
11:16:32  <andythenorth>
11:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i mean, i don't understand the gameplay value
11:17:20  <andythenorth> high capacity trucks
11:17:25  <andythenorth> but slower
11:17:31  <andythenorth> it’s niche, like narrow gauge trains
11:17:35  <andythenorth> or metro
11:17:55  <andythenorth> incompatible with other roadtypes, so you have to fit it into the landscape
11:28:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27301 trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 13:28:25 +0200 )
11:28:29  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6313] (r26550): Modifying timetable times or speeds always confirmed all pre-estimated values.
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11:42:02  <andythenorth> Pikka: so one roadtype and one tramtype per tile, and if the graphics for that look awful, that’s just tough?
11:42:59  <Pikka> well, having unified roadtypes might reduce the awfulness... but I guess so.
11:43:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the next problem was finding enough bits on rail crossings to store all that
11:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> that is an implementation problem, but the spec might need to consider that
11:47:18  <andythenorth> I am +1 to separate tramtype because cleaning up mis-built junctions would be horrible if tram was unified with road when building
11:52:12  <andythenorth> how is tram<->road compatibility determined?
11:52:21  <andythenorth> compatible AND compatible?
11:52:31  <andythenorth> both types must agree?
11:53:48  <Pikka> I am +1 to separate tramtype because cleaning up mis-built junctions would be horrible if tram was unified with road when building <- there's only one roadtype per tile, making junctions look nice would be up to the newgrf. but if we're seperating them it's moot
11:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: making junctions look nice with combined types would be horrible. imagine cobblestone, asphalt, cobblestone+tram, asphalt+tram. you have already too many combinations to check whether you should draw tram rail on each leg of the junction
11:55:57  <andythenorth> maybe I miss something :)
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11:56:16  * andythenorth must to looking after children
11:56:22  <andythenorth> bbl
11:56:38  <andythenorth> roadtypes or die
11:56:40  <Pikka> eddi: having a combined-tram-and-every-roadsurface roadtype is a sensible idea?
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11:57:22  <Pikka> and no, you don't "already too many combinations to check whether you should draw tram rail on each leg of the junction". These wouldn't be difficult tests at all.
11:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: the tram is an overlay (like it is now) and the transparency takes care of the road surfaces
11:57:34  <Pikka> yes
11:57:46  <Pikka> if we're going with the seperate layers idea, which apparently we are :)
11:57:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you have to keep in mind that you can't assume you know all roadtypes currently active. they might come from a different grf
11:58:17  <Pikka> no, but if there's one roadtype per tile you know all the roadtypes on this tile
11:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe we're talking about completely different things :p
11:58:57  <Pikka> possibly
11:59:06  <Pikka> anyway, a new spec with seperate tramlines
11:59:09  <Pikka> sounds easy enough
12:00:37  <Eddi|zuHause> specs always sound easy, until you get to all the corner cases :p
12:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause> like the current trams lack an underlay for rail crossings without road
12:04:33  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27302 trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:04:30 +0200 )
12:04:34  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6313] (r26550): Updating timetables need to check the timetable flags from the real order instead of from a copy. (marcole)
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12:23:06  <Pikka> that's why you keep it simple, Eddi
12:23:16  <Pikka> and treat "realism" as a dirty word :)
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12:29:39  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27303 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2015-06-20 14:29:36 +0200 )
12:29:40  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6321]: SetMinimalSize was ignored for WWT_EDITBOX.
12:30:13  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27304 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 14:30:10 +0200 )
12:30:14  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6321-ish]: Improve password window layout for big font sizes.
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12:40:07  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27305 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:40:04 +0200 )
12:40:08  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6320]: Account for road-bridges and drive-through-stops in CanFollowRoad.
12:55:20  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27306 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:55:17 +0200 )
12:55:21  <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27305): Confused tiles.
12:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i try to avoid the word "realism", because using it triggers all sorts of unwanted reactions
12:57:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27307 trunk/src/error_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 14:57:34 +0200 )
12:57:38  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6259]: Error message window with manager face failed with GUI zoom. (Johnnei)
13:11:12  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27308 /trunk/src (road_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2015-06-20 15:11:09 +0200 )
13:11:13  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6283]: Prevent breaking of tram-reversal points by adding more road pieces. (adf88)
13:15:37  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27309 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 15:15:35 +0200 )
13:15:38  <DorpsGek> -Change [FS#6283]: Auto-complete partial roads when building level-crossings. (adf88)
13:23:20  <peter1138> Spam ;(
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13:42:38  <planetmaker> ah, there the spammer quaks^Wcomes :)
13:43:32  <frosch123> is it safe again? :)
13:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> only if you start implementing the results of our discussion :p
13:44:35  <frosch123> can i kick you for every line i write?
13:44:51  <Eddi|zuHause> if that helps you... :p
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14:45:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: this is not a safe space
14:45:51  <andythenorth> you may find triggers here
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15:09:12  <andythenorth> hmm
15:09:16  <andythenorth> trams ignore one way
15:09:26  <andythenorth> probably correct
15:09:56  <Alberth> only when they enter from the wrong side :p
15:10:12  <Hiddenfunstuff> umm how the tram tracks would work as one way way
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15:21:40  <andythenorth>
15:21:55  <andythenorth> my typos are appalling :P
15:22:00  <andythenorth> I swear they get worse
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15:45:29  <Alberth> how is the UI relevant?
15:52:35  <andythenorth> it’s how my brain works
15:52:40  <andythenorth> it’s a distraction though
15:53:07  <andythenorth> I design specs by “what does the user click on”
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15:55:03  <andythenorth> there’s hardly any spec here yet
15:57:43  <andythenorth> previous attempt at roadtypes (2012)
15:58:33  <andythenorth> level crossings might be a problem
16:00:08  <andythenorth> only 8 bits free
16:00:39  <andythenorth> 13 needed
16:01:42  <Alberth> that sounds like a problem :p
16:01:52  <andythenorth> are tramways shared currently?
16:02:00  <andythenorth> I can’t figure out how to get 2 companies in my game for testing :P
16:02:17  <Alberth> cheat to another company?
16:02:29  <Alberth> maybe you need to add a competitor?
16:02:37  <andythenorth> yes
16:02:59  <Alberth> start_ai  :)
16:03:48  <andythenorth> yeah, tramways are shared
16:05:20  <Alberth> makes sense
16:06:03  <andythenorth> presumably a crossing needs fewer bits for road pieces
16:06:22  <andythenorth> as there must always be 2, orthogonal to the rail track
16:07:06  <andythenorth> so the presence of a railtype on the tile means that the road piece bits aren’t needed at all
16:07:20  <andythenorth> unless the RV pathfinder relies on reading them
16:07:25  <andythenorth> so much andythenorth doesn’t understand :P
16:08:01  <Alberth> if so, RV pathfinder is fixable, I'd say
16:08:25  <andythenorth> crossings are a mess anyway :P
16:08:28  <andythenorth> I tried fixing them once
16:08:55  <andythenorth> they draw road pieces under trams, and iirc they have some dubious behaviour with/without railtypes
16:09:14  <andythenorth> can tramways cross rail anyway?
16:09:34  <Alberth> don't know
16:11:10  <andythenorth>
16:11:13  <andythenorth> the foamers do :)
16:14:16  <Alberth> of course, they just copy reality :)
16:16:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sure, tram crossing rail is done all the time
16:16:45  <andythenorth> not sure how many bits we need, but one solution would be to disallow traim-rail crossings
16:16:46  <Eddi|zuHause> tram crossing electric rail is a bit more complicated, but it's done also occasionally
16:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is a horrible gameplay restriction
16:17:23  <andythenorth> there’s probably a better way
16:17:44  <andythenorth> but crossings are blearch
16:17:58  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: did that paste consider the new map structure since heightlevels? it may have few more bits
16:18:03  <andythenorth> no
16:18:10  <andythenorth> I am just reading some old one I have
16:19:17  <andythenorth> we didn’t think crossings would be a problem in 2012
16:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm quite certain "we" did :p
16:19:47  <andythenorth> when the proposed spec was two types per tile, and each type provided an (optional) composite of road, rail, catenary
16:22:09  <andythenorth> to put it another way, nothing was written down about it :P
16:32:20  <andythenorth> looks like owner is already handled on level crossings for roadtype 0 and 1
16:33:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but a) there is no way currently to have tram without road, and b) the roadtype must be stored additionally
16:34:00  <andythenorth> according to this old spec I am looking at, there are 5 bits free
16:34:12  <andythenorth> where do I find the up-do-date version?
16:34:17  <andythenorth> must be in svn somewhere
16:34:19  * andythenorth looks
16:34:44  <andythenorth> got it
16:34:54  <andythenorth>;a=blob_plain;f=docs/landscape_grid.html;hb=HEAD
16:37:34  <andythenorth> roadtype needs 4 bytes?
16:39:59  <andythenorth> 4 bits :P
16:40:04  * andythenorth is an idiot
16:56:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you need 4 bit for the roadtype and 4 bit for the tramtype
16:57:39  <Eddi|zuHause> m4 seems to be available? it says "inherit", but the one above is all free
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17:09:03  <andythenorth> think m4 is used for landscape
17:09:14  <andythenorth> inherits from the rail bits for m4?
17:09:42  <andythenorth>;a=blob_plain;f=docs/landscape.html;hb=HEAD
17:35:26  <andythenorth> m7 7 and 6 would become available?
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17:36:03  <andythenorth> (present road types)
17:37:28  <andythenorth> there are 8 bits free at crossings anyway
17:37:41  <andythenorth> should be enough
17:39:37  <andythenorth> owner seems to be already known everywhere
17:40:13  <andythenorth> and there’s a cunning hack on roadtype 1 (tram) - towns don’t build trams, so OWNER_NONE is stored as OWNER_TOWN :P
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27310 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2015-06-20 19:45:17 +0200 )
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 79 changes by eirik174
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17:50:14  <andythenorth> just 8 roadtypes and 8 tramtypes? o_O
17:50:24  <andythenorth> only 3 bits each, leaves some free for unknown future
17:56:25  <peter1138> Who cares? Nobody is going to code it.
17:57:28  <andythenorth> that’s what they said about...
17:57:32  * andythenorth thinks of something
17:57:37  <andythenorth> dunno
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18:07:13  <andythenorth> eh, how hard can it be?
18:07:15  * andythenorth wonders
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18:55:18  <frosch123> pff, how do you search for / with vi? :p
18:55:44  <Alberth>  /\/
18:56:07  <Alberth> ie escape the character :)
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19:01:31  <frosch123> does it mean anything if firefox show stuff in red in the source view?
19:02:04  <andythenorth> in html?
19:02:08  <frosch123> yes
19:02:55  <frosch123> and how the hell does class="clearfix" work?
19:03:04  <andythenorth> bootstrap magic
19:03:38  <andythenorth> red is a syntax error
19:03:43  <andythenorth> is it on the doctype?
19:03:59  <frosch123> no it is on various closing tags
19:04:13  <andythenorth> can I see this page somehow?
19:04:13  <frosch123> and also on some singular tags like <p />
19:04:26  <frosch123> eints string edit page
19:04:32  <andythenorth> <p /> is nonsense :)
19:04:48  <frosch123> it created some vertical space
19:05:05  <frosch123> <div class="clearfix" /> <- the "/" is also red there
19:05:18  <frosch123> and sometimes the clearfix works, and sometimes it does not
19:05:25  <andythenorth> depends on preceeding content
19:05:34  <andythenorth> if there’s no float, then clearfix won’t do much
19:05:54  <andythenorth> dunno why firefox doesn’t like self-closed divs
19:05:57  * andythenorth checks spec
19:07:11  <Sylf> div is a container
19:07:17  <frosch123> <- the string edit page *sometimes* has issues if the control-label is too long
19:07:23  <Sylf> so it should have some kind of content
19:07:30  <andythenorth> yeah invalid if self-closed
19:07:31  <Sylf> s*
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19:08:37  <andythenorth> I could fix eints :P
19:08:42  <andythenorth> I probably didn’t validate it
19:10:48  <andythenorth> frosch123: file a ticket if you want :)
19:10:53  <andythenorth> then remind me ;)
19:22:50  <frosch123> got rid of the red by trial and error
19:23:12  <frosch123> <input class="btn btn-primary pull-right" type="submit" value="Save Changes &amp; Get Next String"/> <- well except there
19:23:16  <frosch123> the &amp; is red
19:23:42  <frosch123> hmm, actually it's a different shade of red
19:23:48  <frosch123> so, i guess that is for escapes :)
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19:40:21  <andythenorth> it probably hates the escape in the value
19:40:23  <andythenorth> it shouldn’t
19:40:37  <andythenorth> yeah actually probably just a different escape
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20:04:46  <andythenorth> we’re using eints to translate trunk too? o_O
20:05:00  * andythenorth should improve the skin
20:19:28  <frosch123> not yet, but soon
20:30:26  <andythenorth> hmm
20:30:31  <andythenorth> this game is getting boring now
20:30:38  <andythenorth> not enough different types of transport
20:32:46  <frosch123> want to add bucket brigades?
20:33:48  <andythenorth> conveyors? o_O
20:34:00  <frosch123> play factorio then
20:34:07  <andythenorth> also I’m accidentally playing ‘daylength'
20:34:19  <andythenorth> because Iron Horse and Road Hog have nothing new after 2000 or so
20:34:22  <andythenorth> and it’s 2020
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22:21:48  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:11:03  <Gantradies> test
23:11:38  <Gantradies> hey, i need some server admin techsupport
23:11:49  <Gantradies> haveing port/ gateway adress issues
23:12:48  <Gantradies> to quote my syadmin:
23:12:50  <Gantradies>  have a range of IP Addresses for the servers to sit on.  the problem is the main gateway address for them to LOOK to see if they are connected to the internet is on    the problem is if your server side software doesn't support redirecting that Gateway look at address then its not going to work and the master servers are always going to think its trying to connect to it on the .5    instead of the .7  were the ports are forwarded.\ <13
23:13:10  <Gantradies>  have a range of IP Addresses for the servers to sit on.  the problem is the main gateway address for them to LOOK to see if they are connected to the internet is on    the problem is if your server side software doesn't support redirecting that Gateway look at address then its not going to work and the master servers are always going to think its trying to connect to it on the .5    instead of the .7  were the ports are forwarded.\ <13
23:13:16  <Gantradies> ok, what? one sec
23:13:22  <Gantradies> heres the other part I don't have any firewall rules setup on the main Gateway address becuase its bad practice.  so in short i'm not but in the mean time look up how to change the (my server is really at this address)  setting
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23:25:30  <Gantradies> anyone here?
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23:44:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Gantradies: you can bind to a specific IP in the .cfg or from the command line
23:46:10  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that applies to your problem, though
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