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00:22:20 <Wolf01> 'night 00:22:26 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:27:21 *** Sziha [~oftc-webi@d154-20-173-240.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 00:28:25 <Sziha> Hello everyone. Quick question, in the screenshot topic, do you think it's ok to put pictures in between the text, or it's better to keep them as attachments (so they don't load when opening the website, but then less people see them^^) 00:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you embed pictures, make sure they are not too big (both resolution and size) 00:33:24 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> also, try to avoid linking to pictures on other servers like image hosters 00:35:05 <Sziha> yeah... that's what i thought ^^ there's no way for the forum to make a thumbnail of the picture i attached to the post? 00:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea, actually 00:36:10 <Sziha> well i couldn't find it so i guess not ^^ :) 00:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> there are forums that make thumbnails, though 00:36:25 <Sziha> well i i'm thinking about tt-forums.net ;) 00:36:37 <Sziha> anyway, thanks for help Eddi! 00:39:23 *** Sziha [~oftc-webi@d154-20-173-240.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:54:54 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-164-110.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:01:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:09:02 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-157-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 01:14:03 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:24:37 *** LadyHawk- [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 01:28:08 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:28:10 *** LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk 01:44:17 <supermop> some australian rock star is in my house 01:44:24 <supermop> have no idea who this guy is 01:52:25 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d8218d7.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 01:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if there only were a machine that could give you background information on people 01:58:00 <supermop> yeah reading his wikipedia page now 01:58:16 <supermop> i have never heard of this guy or any of his music 02:02:56 <supermop> oh well 02:17:50 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:28:56 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:42:29 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d0832ae.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 02:49:27 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d8218d7.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:56:36 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:a018:8149:8078:1de5:3dab] has joined #openttd 03:03:04 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:a018:8149:8078:1de5:3dab] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 03:21:51 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:8025:9c8c:90fa:b19b:ef01] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC678BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD485F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:03:46 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-173-198.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 05:32:01 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p5DCD6D35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:40:04 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p5DCD6D35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:44:32 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 05:51:01 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd 06:30:19 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 06:30:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 06:35:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:35:46 <andythenorth> o/ 06:40:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 06:45:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:46:01 <andythenorth> Pikka bonjour 06:46:05 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:46 <Alberth> bonjour 07:00:55 <andythenorth> hmm 07:01:11 <andythenorth> my previous favourite vehicle set has 15 different box truck models 07:01:40 <andythenorth> and 16 different mail trucks 07:11:09 <andythenorth> hmm 07:11:15 <andythenorth> 1x GUI zoom is bonkers 07:11:18 <andythenorth> hwo did I ever use it? 07:11:30 <andythenorth> otoh, the vehicle sprites look way better in the buy menu at 1x :P 07:19:48 <Alberth> bigger GUI is just waste of screen space imho :) 07:20:27 <andythenorth> my eyes canât see the small things any more :P 07:20:28 <andythenorth> also 07:20:42 <andythenorth> 1990 (with vehicle expiry on) 07:20:43 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7354/roadh_hog_with_expiry.png 07:20:46 <andythenorth> too many vehicles? 07:35:22 <supermop> seems fine 07:39:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:47:28 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 07:47:46 <Alberth> that's why I added 'hide' buttons :) 07:50:12 <andythenorth> 24 trucks 07:50:23 <andythenorth> default temperate climate has 20 at same point in time 07:51:05 * andythenorth not sure what the problem is 07:56:18 *** Sacro_ [~ben@ns220925.ip-188-165-246.eu] has joined #openttd 07:57:19 *** funnel_ [~funnel@81.4.123.134] has joined #openttd 07:58:25 *** Sacro [~ben@000127ee.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:59:10 *** funnel [~funnel@0001c7d4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:59:15 *** funnel_ is now known as funnel 08:01:25 <andythenorth> yair, so what stops us doing RoadTypes? 08:08:41 *** Plaete [~moffi@x5d82fc1c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 08:11:01 <Alberth> don't know 08:11:07 <Alberth> is there a newgrf spec? 08:11:08 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:11:23 <Alberth> if yes, is there a c++ patch? 08:11:56 <Alberth> hmm, maybe first, is some dev convinced there is a need? 08:13:40 <andythenorth> I think the last reason 08:13:47 <andythenorth> need / benefit / interesting project 08:13:56 <andythenorth> we have tried to spec it n times 08:14:06 <andythenorth> also 08:15:53 <andythenorth> V453000: will your trucks be RVs, or trains? 08:16:01 <V453000> sup 08:16:02 <V453000> RVs 08:16:12 <andythenorth> thought you hated RVs? 08:16:18 <Alberth> hmm, truck trains :p 08:16:20 <V453000> yeah but wanted to model them 08:16:22 * andythenorth considers doing RH as trains 08:16:43 <andythenorth> making RVs trains might be what players want 08:16:45 <andythenorth> signals 08:16:57 <andythenorth> road(rail)types 08:16:59 <V453000> I remembered what were the features, I basically just wanted parameters for purchase menu lists - you would either have 4 vehicles available (with refit, random colour), or separated by colour so you could buy individual colour, or separated by cargo, or by vehicle generations 08:17:12 <andythenorth> more varety for stations 08:17:16 <andythenorth> variety * 08:17:21 <Alberth> bbl 08:17:23 <andythenorth> diagonal roads 08:17:33 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 08:17:49 <andythenorth> highways 08:18:01 * andythenorth also bbls 08:18:06 <andythenorth> this is probably a good plan though 08:18:18 <andythenorth> Iâll have to change all the offsets though :( 08:18:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:23:13 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:34:12 <Terkhen> hello 08:41:48 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:58:21 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-53-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:58:39 <Wolf01> moin 09:22:44 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-195-143.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 09:25:02 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 09:28:48 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-195-143.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:55:48 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:03 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 09:58:06 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:59:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:18 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:07:56 *** Plaete [~moffi@x5d82fc1c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 10:13:42 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p5DE45641.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:16:52 *** sla_ro|laptop [~sla.ro@89.121.131.100] has joined #openttd 10:17:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:21:44 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p5DE45641.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:22:18 * andythenorth converts all RVs to trains 10:23:04 <andythenorth> how can I teach towns to build a raltype instead of road? 10:23:08 <andythenorth> railtype * 10:23:31 <Alberth> very very tricky, probably 10:23:48 <andythenorth> also newgrf spec needs to change 10:24:06 <andythenorth> there are some tile checks which can check landscape type and get road 10:24:12 <andythenorth> but they need to get the railtype instead 10:26:20 <Alberth> currently you cannot even use any rail tracks than your own 10:26:47 <Alberth> so town built road would be unusable 10:27:22 <andythenorth> merge infrastructure sharing? 10:27:45 <Alberth> something in that direction would be required indeed 10:29:24 <andythenorth> might be worth it 10:29:29 <andythenorth> it does get us roadtypes for free 10:30:01 <Alberth> what is the point exactly about road types? 10:31:06 <Alberth> just more forms of road? 10:32:03 <andythenorth> same as railtypes 10:32:07 <andythenorth> more forms of route 10:32:18 <andythenorth> choosing route type is interesting 10:32:23 <andythenorth> choosing vehicle type is mostly boring 10:32:48 <andythenorth> mostly, the type of route chosen should entail the type of vehicles you get 10:33:18 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd 10:33:39 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has left #openttd [] 10:34:23 <andythenorth> FWIW, I want to add âhaul roadsâ 10:34:31 <andythenorth> which are incompatible with normal roads 10:34:36 <andythenorth> and have to be fitted into the landscape 10:35:37 <Alberth> tbh I don't understand more railtypes either, I'd want less railtypes rather than more :) 10:36:03 <Alberth> canal wouldn't work I guess as it has no 'direction'? 10:39:10 <Alberth> but yeah, I can see having different forms of road could be nice to have 10:40:05 <Alberth> just copy railtypes over to road? 10:45:02 <andythenorth> there is some spec problem 10:45:09 <andythenorth> oh yeah, railtypes arenât combinable 10:45:15 <andythenorth> but apparently roadtypes have to be 10:46:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00b276.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 10:47:09 <Alberth> if you want common infra structure, as eg built by towns, that would be quite useful 10:47:11 <Alberth> hoi 10:47:34 <andythenorth> quak quak 10:49:41 <frosch123> moin 10:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the proposed spec ideas had the notion that each tile has one "road-like" [e.g. cobblestone, asphalt] and one "tram-like" [e.g. trolleybus] roadtype on each tile 10:50:46 <frosch123> damn, why did i join? :p 10:50:47 <Alberth> why do road types need to be combinable, you'd just list the types with each vehicle? 10:50:48 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00b276.dyn.telefonica.de] has left #openttd [] 10:50:49 * andythenorth wonders if âtram-likeâ is why this got stuck 10:50:55 <Pikka> and what a terribly overcomplicated proposal that was, Eddi 10:51:02 <andythenorth> we broke frosch :( 10:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause> where the "tram-like" type can define whether it can be combined with a road [tram], must be combined with a road [trolleybus] or can't be combined with a road [metro] 10:51:34 <andythenorth> seems even more complicated than railtypes 10:51:44 <andythenorth> tbh, as a newgrf author I donât understand railtypes 10:51:53 <andythenorth> somebody else (foobar) set it up for me 10:52:02 <andythenorth> it seems to need reading pages of spec and discussion 10:52:16 <andythenorth> compatibility and such 10:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i rather think it doesn't go far enough 10:52:31 <andythenorth> speed limits, axle loadings, powered, unpowered 10:52:33 <Alberth> of course, lots of bike shedding to do here andy 10:52:50 * andythenorth would just have one roadtype per tile 10:52:51 <andythenorth> end of 10:52:55 <Pikka> doesn't it Eddi? what else do you think it needs? 10:53:27 <Alberth> number of sharp objects at this part, chance of puncture 10:53:33 * andythenorth wants âif you want to use these vehicles youâre going to have find space on your map for a new route" 10:53:54 <andythenorth> skid risk, chance of flying stones, maximum axle weight 10:54:00 <andythenorth> number of squirrels per tile 10:54:09 <andythenorth> chance of hitting a deer or a roo 10:54:12 <Pikka> single-layer roadtype. build over others roads iff all vehicles on that road can run on this road, cache the roadtype of the surrounding 4 tiles to do grf-magic for different roadtype intersections. 10:54:22 <andythenorth> âthis truck has an axle loading of 22t, and roo barsâ 10:54:23 <Pikka> that's the only sensible way to make it work imo 10:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you can't cross a trolleybus route with a tram route with this spec 10:54:39 <andythenorth> so don't 10:54:41 <andythenorth> :P 10:54:59 <Pikka> you can with mine :) 10:55:07 <andythenorth> you canât build a ng track piece on the same tile as a standard gauge piece 10:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you run out of roadtypes with your spec :p 10:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: michi_cc had a patch for that 10:55:54 <andythenorth> meh, I donât think itâs needed 10:56:15 <andythenorth> same as diagonal bridges and tunnels, overkill 10:56:20 <Pikka> road... hell, 8 flavours of road. tram with road, tram without road, trolleybus... I'm struggling to run out of roadtypes. :) 10:56:41 <andythenorth> road, haul road, tramway, electic tramway 10:57:01 <Alberth> high way 10:57:07 <andythenorth> over-rated 10:57:18 <andythenorth> speed limits on the route is a dumb idea 10:57:31 <Alberth> yeah, sure, just look at the screenshot forum :) 10:57:32 <andythenorth> itâs why all the railtype grfs seem so stupid 10:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i think highway or avenues have a place in this game, but they should be independent from roadtypes. they behave more like objects (with a state machine) 10:57:49 <andythenorth> +1 10:57:52 <Pikka> speed limits by different road surfaces if you must... still doesn't run out of roadtypes any time soon, if you have 16. 10:57:52 <andythenorth> the problem is overtaking 10:57:58 <andythenorth> nothing to do with roadtype 10:58:10 <andythenorth> (for highways) 10:58:12 <Pikka> better overtaking behaviour on one-way roads, perhaps? 10:58:19 <andythenorth> new state machine 10:58:29 <andythenorth> orthogonal to roadtypes 10:59:06 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: road decorations by foobar for example? would be nice if you can really drive of them 10:59:14 <Alberth> *over 10:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, something like that 10:59:29 <andythenorth> remove trams 10:59:33 <andythenorth> then itâs easier 10:59:37 <Pikka> trams are the problem, for sure 10:59:43 <andythenorth> trams are a problem 10:59:49 <Pikka> get rid of them, or rather reinstate them with the new roadtype spec 10:59:52 <Eddi|zuHause> trams are great 11:00:05 <Pikka> trams are great but the current implentation is terrible 11:00:26 <andythenorth> railtypes donât have the tram problem 11:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> how would a different implementation not be terrible? 11:00:37 <Pikka> they should be like railtypes 11:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> how so? 11:01:02 <Pikka> all roadtypes created equal, not a half-baked special case for tramlines 11:01:25 <andythenorth> ânarrow gauge with maglev' 11:01:34 <andythenorth> would have worked excellently :P 11:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i'm not getting your point 11:02:07 <andythenorth> all the types have to be combinable with trams 11:02:12 <andythenorth> which makes it insane 11:02:38 <Pikka> and then people are (quite reasonably) going to want different kinds of tram lines too 11:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily make a flag "can't be combined with tram" 11:03:06 <Pikka> but tram shouldn't be a special case 11:03:12 <andythenorth> no 11:03:15 <Pikka> it should just become another roadtype 11:03:18 <andythenorth> itâs dumb 11:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: that makes it terrible and cumbersome to add tram to existing road 11:03:48 <Pikka> about as difficult as electrifying a railway line 11:03:52 <andythenorth> well 11:03:53 <Pikka> convert tool, drag 11:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> run tram over competitors road? never. 11:04:06 <andythenorth> perhaps electrifying should be done separate to railtype? 11:04:08 <Pikka> "build over others roads iff all vehicles on that road can run on this road" 11:04:09 <andythenorth> maybe railtypes is wrong? 11:04:46 <andythenorth> ho 11:04:50 <andythenorth> split the build tools? 11:04:56 <andythenorth> âbuild road' 11:04:58 <Pikka> if we hadn't had fudgey trams we could have had roadtypes not long after railtypes, I reckon 11:04:59 <andythenorth> âbuild tramway' 11:05:09 <andythenorth> âtramway cannot be built here' 11:05:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27300 trunk/src/group_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 13:05:11 +0200 ) 11:05:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6306]: Silence GCC warning (Cif) 11:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i think the existance of trams easily trumps the benefits of roadtypes 11:06:27 * andythenorth thinks they should have been split 11:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll trade the current system of road+tram over a hacked "road with embedded tram" implemented as roadtype 11:06:39 <andythenorth> theyâre different transport types that behave differently 11:06:48 <andythenorth> roadtypes, tramtypes 11:07:29 <andythenorth> one roadtype per tile, which may or may not be over-built with tramtype 11:07:55 <andythenorth> itâs weird, but all the other ways are insane 11:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that is exactly the proposal i'm talking about. 11:08:32 <andythenorth> trams are fundamentally different: they move differently, and they require a closed loop system 11:09:18 <andythenorth> that closed loop system could incidentally be used for pipelines as hax 11:09:26 <andythenorth> but thatâs not relevant :P 11:10:14 <Pikka> alright 11:10:19 <andythenorth> to me the missing part in past discussion is the idea of splitting the build tool 11:10:39 <Pikka> let's do it then :D 11:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, get frosch to do it :p 11:11:06 <andythenorth> is spec? o_O 11:12:24 <Pikka> very 11:12:36 <Pikka> someone should write one 11:13:23 <andythenorth> I donât understand all the compatibility crap 11:13:47 <andythenorth> also my spec would rule out axle weight limits, co-efficient of friction on road surface, 11:13:48 <andythenorth> etc 11:14:00 <andythenorth> might keep ânumber of roos per tileâ though 11:14:10 <Pikka> friction might be nice 11:14:15 <Pikka> exle weight limits is dumb 11:14:31 <Pikka> actually friction might be boring 11:14:40 <andythenorth> speed limits? 11:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> axle weight can be implicit info like with railtypes 11:14:43 <andythenorth> speed limits are stupid 11:14:54 <Pikka> yes 11:15:06 <Eddi|zuHause> speed limits, and a flag that town can't grow along highspeed roads 11:15:12 <andythenorth> or haul roads :P 11:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand your haul roads 11:16:12 <Pikka> flag for towns will grow, flag for towns will build 11:16:32 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK_11AT4m2M 11:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i mean, i don't understand the gameplay value 11:17:20 <andythenorth> high capacity trucks 11:17:25 <andythenorth> but slower 11:17:31 <andythenorth> itâs niche, like narrow gauge trains 11:17:35 <andythenorth> or metro 11:17:55 <andythenorth> incompatible with other roadtypes, so you have to fit it into the landscape 11:28:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27301 trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 13:28:25 +0200 ) 11:28:29 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6313] (r26550): Modifying timetable times or speeds always confirmed all pre-estimated values. 11:30:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6CAC4.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:32:27 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:02 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:42:02 <andythenorth> Pikka: so one roadtype and one tramtype per tile, and if the graphics for that look awful, thatâs just tough? 11:42:59 <Pikka> well, having unified roadtypes might reduce the awfulness... but I guess so. 11:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the next problem was finding enough bits on rail crossings to store all that 11:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that is an implementation problem, but the spec might need to consider that 11:47:18 <andythenorth> I am +1 to separate tramtype because cleaning up mis-built junctions would be horrible if tram was unified with road when building 11:52:12 <andythenorth> how is tram<->road compatibility determined? 11:52:21 <andythenorth> compatible AND compatible? 11:52:31 <andythenorth> both types must agree? 11:53:48 <Pikka> I am +1 to separate tramtype because cleaning up mis-built junctions would be horrible if tram was unified with road when building <- there's only one roadtype per tile, making junctions look nice would be up to the newgrf. but if we're seperating them it's moot 11:55:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: making junctions look nice with combined types would be horrible. imagine cobblestone, asphalt, cobblestone+tram, asphalt+tram. you have already too many combinations to check whether you should draw tram rail on each leg of the junction 11:55:57 <andythenorth> maybe I miss something :) 11:56:02 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B4749B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:56:16 * andythenorth must to looking after children 11:56:22 <andythenorth> bbl 11:56:38 <andythenorth> roadtypes or die 11:56:40 <Pikka> eddi: having a combined-tram-and-every-roadsurface roadtype is a sensible idea? 11:56:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:57:22 <Pikka> and no, you don't "already too many combinations to check whether you should draw tram rail on each leg of the junction". These wouldn't be difficult tests at all. 11:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: the tram is an overlay (like it is now) and the transparency takes care of the road surfaces 11:57:34 <Pikka> yes 11:57:46 <Pikka> if we're going with the seperate layers idea, which apparently we are :) 11:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you have to keep in mind that you can't assume you know all roadtypes currently active. they might come from a different grf 11:58:17 <Pikka> no, but if there's one roadtype per tile you know all the roadtypes on this tile 11:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe we're talking about completely different things :p 11:58:57 <Pikka> possibly 11:59:06 <Pikka> anyway, a new spec with seperate tramlines 11:59:09 <Pikka> sounds easy enough 12:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> specs always sound easy, until you get to all the corner cases :p 12:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> like the current trams lack an underlay for rail crossings without road 12:04:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27302 trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:04:30 +0200 ) 12:04:34 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6313] (r26550): Updating timetables need to check the timetable flags from the real order instead of from a copy. (marcole) 12:07:32 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 12:23:06 <Pikka> that's why you keep it simple, Eddi 12:23:16 <Pikka> and treat "realism" as a dirty word :) 12:25:06 *** Pokka [~Octomom@124-170-101-81.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:29:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27303 trunk/src/widget.cpp (2015-06-20 14:29:36 +0200 ) 12:29:40 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6321]: SetMinimalSize was ignored for WWT_EDITBOX. 12:30:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27304 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 14:30:10 +0200 ) 12:30:14 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6321-ish]: Improve password window layout for big font sizes. 12:31:21 *** Pikka [~Octomom@124-170-101-81.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:26 *** Pokka is now known as Pikka 12:40:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27305 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:40:04 +0200 ) 12:40:08 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6320]: Account for road-bridges and drive-through-stops in CanFollowRoad. 12:55:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27306 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 14:55:17 +0200 ) 12:55:21 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27305): Confused tiles. 12:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i try to avoid the word "realism", because using it triggers all sorts of unwanted reactions 12:57:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27307 trunk/src/error_gui.cpp (2015-06-20 14:57:34 +0200 ) 12:57:38 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6259]: Error message window with manager face failed with GUI zoom. (Johnnei) 13:11:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27308 /trunk/src (road_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2015-06-20 15:11:09 +0200 ) 13:11:13 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6283]: Prevent breaking of tram-reversal points by adding more road pieces. (adf88) 13:15:37 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27309 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2015-06-20 15:15:35 +0200 ) 13:15:38 <DorpsGek> -Change [FS#6283]: Auto-complete partial roads when building level-crossings. (adf88) 13:23:20 <peter1138> Spam ;( 13:37:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00b276.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 13:38:29 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-164-110.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:39:05 *** sla_ro|laptop [~sla.ro@89.121.131.100] has quit [] 13:42:38 <planetmaker> ah, there the spammer quaks^Wcomes :) 13:43:32 <frosch123> is it safe again? :) 13:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you start implementing the results of our discussion :p 13:44:35 <frosch123> can i kick you for every line i write? 13:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> if that helps you... :p 13:49:15 *** Pikka [~Octomom@124-170-101-81.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:00 *** Kurt [~oftc-webi@180.159.144.3] has joined #openttd 13:50:23 *** Kurt [~oftc-webi@180.159.144.3] has quit [] 14:02:26 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-195-143.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 14:09:25 *** Flygon__ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-195-143.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:35:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6A1A9.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:36:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6CAC4.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:41 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p5DE45641.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:40:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:43:35 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-124-112.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 14:45:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: this is not a safe space 14:45:51 <andythenorth> you may find triggers here 14:56:44 *** Celestar [~Celestar@p5DE45641.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:56:49 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B4749B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:07:20 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd 15:09:12 <andythenorth> hmm 15:09:16 <andythenorth> trams ignore one way 15:09:26 <andythenorth> probably correct 15:09:56 <Alberth> only when they enter from the wrong side :p 15:10:12 <Hiddenfunstuff> umm how the tram tracks would work as one way way 15:17:19 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 15:21:40 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p8bihm3u0/utk84y/raw 15:21:55 <andythenorth> my typos are appalling :P 15:22:00 <andythenorth> I swear they get worse 15:37:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:37:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 15:41:55 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:45:29 <Alberth> how is the UI relevant? 15:52:35 <andythenorth> itâs how my brain works 15:52:40 <andythenorth> itâs a distraction though 15:53:07 <andythenorth> I design specs by âwhat does the user click onâ 15:54:17 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B7E7A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:55:03 <andythenorth> thereâs hardly any spec here yet 15:57:43 <andythenorth> previous attempt at roadtypes (2012) https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pyhavke97 15:58:33 <andythenorth> level crossings might be a problem 16:00:08 <andythenorth> only 8 bits free 16:00:39 <andythenorth> 13 needed 16:01:42 <Alberth> that sounds like a problem :p 16:01:52 <andythenorth> are tramways shared currently? 16:02:00 <andythenorth> I canât figure out how to get 2 companies in my game for testing :P 16:02:17 <Alberth> cheat to another company? 16:02:29 <Alberth> maybe you need to add a competitor? 16:02:37 <andythenorth> yes 16:02:59 <Alberth> start_ai :) 16:03:48 <andythenorth> yeah, tramways are shared 16:05:20 <Alberth> makes sense 16:06:03 <andythenorth> presumably a crossing needs fewer bits for road pieces 16:06:22 <andythenorth> as there must always be 2, orthogonal to the rail track 16:07:06 <andythenorth> so the presence of a railtype on the tile means that the road piece bits arenât needed at all 16:07:20 <andythenorth> unless the RV pathfinder relies on reading them 16:07:25 <andythenorth> so much andythenorth doesnât understand :P 16:08:01 <Alberth> if so, RV pathfinder is fixable, I'd say 16:08:25 <andythenorth> crossings are a mess anyway :P 16:08:28 <andythenorth> I tried fixing them once 16:08:55 <andythenorth> they draw road pieces under trams, and iirc they have some dubious behaviour with/without railtypes 16:09:14 <andythenorth> can tramways cross rail anyway? 16:09:34 <Alberth> don't know 16:11:10 <andythenorth> http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/22699-level-crossing-of-tram-railway/page-2 16:11:13 <andythenorth> the foamers do :) 16:14:16 <Alberth> of course, they just copy reality :) 16:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sure, tram crossing rail is done all the time 16:16:45 <andythenorth> not sure how many bits we need, but one solution would be to disallow traim-rail crossings 16:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause> tram crossing electric rail is a bit more complicated, but it's done also occasionally 16:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is a horrible gameplay restriction 16:17:23 <andythenorth> thereâs probably a better way 16:17:44 <andythenorth> but crossings are blearch 16:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: did that paste consider the new map structure since heightlevels? it may have few more bits 16:18:03 <andythenorth> no 16:18:10 <andythenorth> I am just reading some old one I have 16:19:17 <andythenorth> we didnât think crossings would be a problem in 2012 16:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm quite certain "we" did :p 16:19:47 <andythenorth> when the proposed spec was two types per tile, and each type provided an (optional) composite of road, rail, catenary 16:22:09 <andythenorth> to put it another way, nothing was written down about it :P 16:32:20 <andythenorth> looks like owner is already handled on level crossings for roadtype 0 and 1 16:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but a) there is no way currently to have tram without road, and b) the roadtype must be stored additionally 16:34:00 <andythenorth> according to this old spec I am looking at, there are 5 bits free 16:34:12 <andythenorth> where do I find the up-do-date version? 16:34:17 <andythenorth> must be in svn somewhere 16:34:19 * andythenorth looks 16:34:44 <andythenorth> got it 16:34:54 <andythenorth> http://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob_plain;f=docs/landscape_grid.html;hb=HEAD 16:37:34 <andythenorth> roadtype needs 4 bytes? 16:39:59 <andythenorth> 4 bits :P 16:40:04 * andythenorth is an idiot 16:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you need 4 bit for the roadtype and 4 bit for the tramtype 16:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> m4 seems to be available? it says "inherit", but the one above is all free 17:06:04 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:09:03 <andythenorth> think m4 is used for landscape 17:09:14 <andythenorth> inherits from the rail bits for m4? 17:09:42 <andythenorth> http://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob_plain;f=docs/landscape.html;hb=HEAD 17:35:26 <andythenorth> m7 7 and 6 would become available? 17:35:31 *** Marty [~Marty@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 17:36:03 <andythenorth> (present road types) 17:37:28 <andythenorth> there are 8 bits free at crossings anyway 17:37:41 <andythenorth> should be enough 17:39:37 <andythenorth> owner seems to be already known everywhere 17:40:13 <andythenorth> and thereâs a cunning hack on roadtype 1 (tram) - towns donât build trams, so OWNER_NONE is stored as OWNER_TOWN :P 17:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27310 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2015-06-20 19:45:17 +0200 ) 17:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:25 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 79 changes by eirik174 17:48:54 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:24 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-124-112.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:14 <andythenorth> just 8 roadtypes and 8 tramtypes? o_O 17:50:24 <andythenorth> only 3 bits each, leaves some free for unknown future 17:56:25 <peter1138> Who cares? Nobody is going to code it. 17:57:28 <andythenorth> thatâs what they said about... 17:57:32 * andythenorth thinks of something 17:57:37 <andythenorth> dunno 18:02:42 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:13 <andythenorth> eh, how hard can it be? 18:07:15 * andythenorth wonders 18:11:16 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:25:25 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest2290 18:25:25 *** Guest2290 [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:30:00 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution] 18:55:18 <frosch123> pff, how do you search for / with vi? :p 18:55:44 <Alberth> /\/ 18:56:07 <Alberth> ie escape the character :) 18:57:22 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 19:01:31 <frosch123> does it mean anything if firefox show stuff in red in the source view? 19:02:04 <andythenorth> in html? 19:02:08 <frosch123> yes 19:02:55 <frosch123> and how the hell does class="clearfix" work? 19:03:04 <andythenorth> bootstrap magic 19:03:38 <andythenorth> red is a syntax error 19:03:43 <andythenorth> is it on the doctype? 19:03:59 <frosch123> no it is on various closing tags 19:04:13 <andythenorth> can I see this page somehow? 19:04:13 <frosch123> and also on some singular tags like <p /> 19:04:26 <frosch123> eints string edit page 19:04:32 <andythenorth> <p /> is nonsense :) 19:04:48 <frosch123> it created some vertical space 19:05:05 <frosch123> <div class="clearfix" /> <- the "/" is also red there 19:05:18 <frosch123> and sometimes the clearfix works, and sometimes it does not 19:05:25 <andythenorth> depends on preceeding content 19:05:34 <andythenorth> if thereâs no float, then clearfix wonât do much 19:05:54 <andythenorth> dunno why firefox doesnât like self-closed divs 19:05:57 * andythenorth checks spec 19:07:11 <Sylf> div is a container 19:07:17 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/eints_clearfix.png <- the string edit page *sometimes* has issues if the control-label is too long 19:07:23 <Sylf> so it should have some kind of content 19:07:30 <andythenorth> yeah invalid if self-closed 19:07:31 <Sylf> s* 19:08:26 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:08:37 <andythenorth> I could fix eints :P 19:08:42 <andythenorth> I probably didnât validate it 19:10:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: file a ticket if you want :) 19:10:53 <andythenorth> then remind me ;) 19:22:50 <frosch123> got rid of the red by trial and error 19:23:12 <frosch123> <input class="btn btn-primary pull-right" type="submit" value="Save Changes & Get Next String"/> <- well except there 19:23:16 <frosch123> the & is red 19:23:42 <frosch123> hmm, actually it's a different shade of red 19:23:48 <frosch123> so, i guess that is for escapes :) 19:38:40 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B7E7A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:40:21 <andythenorth> it probably hates the escape in the value 19:40:23 <andythenorth> it shouldnât 19:40:37 <andythenorth> yeah actually probably just a different escape 19:44:47 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:04:46 <andythenorth> weâre using eints to translate trunk too? o_O 20:05:00 * andythenorth should improve the skin 20:19:28 <frosch123> not yet, but soon 20:30:26 <andythenorth> hmm 20:30:31 <andythenorth> this game is getting boring now 20:30:38 <andythenorth> not enough different types of transport 20:32:46 <frosch123> want to add bucket brigades? 20:33:48 <andythenorth> conveyors? o_O 20:34:00 <frosch123> play factorio then 20:34:07 <andythenorth> also Iâm accidentally playing âdaylength' 20:34:19 <andythenorth> because Iron Horse and Road Hog have nothing new after 2000 or so 20:34:22 <andythenorth> and itâs 2020 20:45:03 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:46:19 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-173-198.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 20:56:01 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 21:02:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:07:36 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:53 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:13:12 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 21:34:54 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:51:55 *** Marty [~Marty@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:05 *** snorre_ [~snorre@c62F6BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:51 *** snorre [~snorre@c62F6BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:09:23 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd 22:18:40 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00b276.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:21:48 <Wolf01> 'night 22:21:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:23:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18B4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:05 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:47 *** Gantradies [~oftc-webi@101.191.148.242] has joined #openttd 23:11:03 <Gantradies> test 23:11:38 <Gantradies> hey, i need some server admin techsupport 23:11:49 <Gantradies> haveing port/ gateway adress issues 23:12:48 <Gantradies> to quote my syadmin: 23:12:50 <Gantradies> have a range of IP Addresses for the servers to sit on. the problem is the main gateway address for them to LOOK to see if they are connected to the internet is on 216.229.78.5 the problem is if your server side software doesn't support redirecting that Gateway look at address then its not going to work and the master servers are always going to think its trying to connect to it on the .5 instead of the .7 were the ports are forwarded.\ <13 23:13:10 <Gantradies> have a range of IP Addresses for the servers to sit on. the problem is the main gateway address for them to LOOK to see if they are connected to the internet is on 216.229.78.5 the problem is if your server side software doesn't support redirecting that Gateway look at address then its not going to work and the master servers are always going to think its trying to connect to it on the .5 instead of the .7 were the ports are forwarded.\ <13 23:13:16 <Gantradies> ok, what? one sec 23:13:22 <Gantradies> heres the other part I don't have any firewall rules setup on the main Gateway address becuase its bad practice. so in short i'm not but in the mean time look up how to change the (my server is really at this address) setting 23:13:35 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:13:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 23:18:18 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-157-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:29 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6A1A9.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25:30 <Gantradies> anyone here? 23:34:30 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 23:38:36 *** Ttech [ttech@is.in.the.madhacker.biz] has joined #openttd 23:44:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Gantradies: you can bind to a specific IP in the .cfg or from the command line 23:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that applies to your problem, though 23:47:52 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:51:10 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:57:15 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has joined #openttd