Log for #openttd on 27th June 2015:
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01:40:58  <supermop_> get to have a slightly less frustrating week than normal
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04:25:23  <labrown> So, OpenTTD 1.5.1 with YETI is pretty cool, but what train and/or road vehicle set to do I need to transport the dreaded uranium?
04:27:14  *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
04:27:30  <Flygon> Whatever South Australia uses xP
04:27:35  <Flygon> srsly tho good question
04:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause> labrown: which ones have you tried?
04:28:35  <labrown> South Australia?
04:29:05  <labrown> Was playing with the OpenGRFX+ train and road set, but couldn't find anything to haul Uranium.  haven't tried any others yet.
04:29:43  <Eddi|zuHause> labrown: you should try a few, and file a bug report on each one that doesn't transport it
04:29:55  <labrown> Eddi|zuHause: oh joy!!!!!
04:29:58  <labrown> *grin*
04:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause> well, no bug report means nobody will fix it
04:30:36  <labrown> Eddi|zuHause: I get it, totally.  sysadmin/devops kinda guy... I know ALL about bug reports. :-)
04:31:07  <Eddi|zuHause> labrown: it should also not be hard to just make your own GRF which provides a uranium wagon
04:31:19  <labrown> *nod*
04:32:05  <labrown> Just downloaded and loaded a sav file from the forums for a large YETI map...  Hopefully I can see what they are using.
04:32:15  <Eddi|zuHause> as to the original question, it's probably safe to assume that NUTS is designed to work with YETI
04:34:06  <labrown> oh my good lord....  WTF is that!  (game just loaded with NUTS in it.....
04:35:06  <labrown> Caterpillers?
04:42:10  <labrown> OK.  North America Railway Set handles all YETI cargo types.
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05:36:40  <Pikka> ole!
05:48:14  <andythenorth> aye
05:48:51  <andythenorth> what was the thinking behind super-tiny newgrfs pikka bob?
05:48:59  <andythenorth> I know it seemed like a good idea at the time...
05:49:02  <Pikka> super-tiny newgrfs?
05:49:42  <Pikka> with fewer vehicles, you mean?
05:51:33  <andythenorth> I mean only 10 pixels high
05:51:41  <andythenorth> no, I mean fewer vehicles :D
05:52:03  <Pikka> less to draw, more attention paid to making each vehicle "interesting".
05:52:06  <andythenorth> although
05:52:14  <andythenorth> oh yeah
05:52:16  <andythenorth> less to draw
05:52:20  <andythenorth> that is a good reason
05:52:25  <Pikka> easier for players to choose between vehicles, less "I need daylength because I don't have time to use all the vehicles".
05:53:24  <Pikka> also my first av10 aircraft is 15mb for one aircraft, so I don't really want to put too many in there ;)
05:54:00  * andythenorth has been adding vehicles to Hog
05:54:02  <andythenorth> and has more to add
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05:54:42  <Rubidium> moin
05:55:12  <Rubidium> andythenorth: what is typical Brittish weather? Because it doesn't include rain...
05:56:01  <Rubidium> in any case, Bristol was nice
05:56:06  <andythenorth> :)
05:56:13  <andythenorth> what did you see?
05:58:30  <Rubidium> walked from the Temple Meads stations along the harbour to the Clifton suspension bridge, then back to city centre to visit the M-shed (they had steam engines, but around 08:00 they weren't fully operational so I passed them the first time to come back)
05:59:28  <Rubidium> also been to Cabot tower, walked a bit around the university, cathedral, city centre (up to Cabot circus)
05:59:53  <Rubidium> and then around 21:00 I buggered off again towards sleeping accomodations
06:00:45  <Rubidium> when I arrived it actually became evident why hostels were so full and expensive that weekend: lots of high schoolers visiting the university's open day
06:01:19  <Pikka> M Shed sounds like fun
06:02:00  <Pikka> UU37, anyone? :)
06:03:00  <andythenorth> that mine
06:03:07  <andythenorth> is quite special
06:03:47  <Pikka> such zbase
06:03:50  <andythenorth> Rubidium: sounds like you saw all the standard stuff ;)
06:04:00  <andythenorth> did you see the big boat?
06:04:17  <Rubidium> I did see it from afar, and from afar it was really crowded
06:04:34  <Rubidium> and about the mine... do I see some M.C. Escher in there?
06:04:56  <andythenorth> Pikka: those air horns are out of gauge clearly
06:05:01  <andythenorth> and the wrong number of rivets
06:05:50  <Pikka> animated rivets, too
06:07:41  <andythenorth> Rubidium: eat anything nice? o_O
06:10:14  <Rubidium> during the days I've been to the UK definitely; parts of the English breakfast, Shephards pie, stew, Fish'n'chips, steak and ale pie, oh... and on Sunday obviously a Sunday roast
06:10:46  <andythenorth> pretty classic
06:12:31  <Rubidium> yeah, I tried to eat as much "classic" English foods during my stay
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06:19:39  <supermop> very oz looking uu 37 Pikka
06:19:42  <supermop> i like it
06:19:59  <Pikka> :)
06:20:13  <supermop> i like the idea of themed base sets
06:20:31  <supermop> rather than just replicate the same with different drawing styles
06:20:33  <supermop> but
06:20:47  <supermop> if i was using pineapple base and pineapple trains
06:21:10  <supermop> id want to keep the aus style default vehicles!
06:21:59  <supermop> i always wondered why the japan set dudes didn't make a japan base as well
06:22:14  <supermop> seems like almost all of the sprites would already be there
06:22:20  <Pikka> yeah
06:22:29  <andythenorth> base set is vast undertaking :P
06:22:37  <andythenorth> it would take too much time
06:22:45  <andythenorth> compared to drawing Every Train Ever Produced
06:22:48  <supermop> just need to pick some small JR steamer to be a kirby, some JR DME to be a daash etc
06:22:53  <supermop> haha
06:23:05  <Pikka> well they never did road vehicles
06:23:08  <Pikka> or industries...
06:23:14  <andythenorth> nobody never did RVs
06:23:17  <supermop> is that your lineside grass Pikka ?
06:23:18  <andythenorth> except Zeph
06:23:26  <andythenorth> actually there are some other RV sets?
06:23:33  <andythenorth> Hungarian?  German?  Polish?
06:23:46  <Pikka> my grass and tracks, supermop
06:23:59  <supermop> a zeph generic base set would be nice
06:24:07  <supermop> nice grass
06:24:27  <supermop> a little too green for australia though
06:24:33  <supermop> even down here
06:24:56  <Pikka> less green than the other base sets though
06:25:02  <andythenorth> shall I do Australial FIRS?
06:25:06  <supermop> too bad grash cant change color with season
06:25:10  <andythenorth> GarryG would like Australial FIRS
06:25:12  <supermop> andythenorth: yes
06:25:42  <supermop> australia seems to be the closest part of the real world to TTO
06:25:55  <supermop> what with mines and whate not all over
06:26:38  <andythenorth> so what do I need?
06:26:40  <andythenorth> sheep ranch
06:26:46  <andythenorth> Holden factory
06:26:52  <andythenorth> brewery
06:27:21  <andythenorth> and The Mine that Everybody Works at Earning A Hundred and Fifty Grand Driving a Truck
06:27:37  <supermop> metal -> holden utes -> builders yard
06:28:05  <supermop> see if you can make color shift paint on the utes in 8bpp
06:28:33  <supermop> working holiday visa -> fruit plantation
06:28:47  <supermop> ok off to laundromat
06:29:00  <supermop> or 'launderette'
06:29:07  <supermop> later'
06:30:02  <andythenorth> machine shop -> land clearing operation
06:32:37  <andythenorth>
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07:56:29  <Alberth> digging up new machines eh? :)
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08:29:43  <Wolf01> hi hi
08:48:55  <Alberth> moin
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11:40:19  <Alberth> moin
11:40:59  <frosch123> quak
11:46:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27320 trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp (2015-06-27 13:46:41 +0200 )
11:46:46  <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Do not drop order backups when loading a savegame for replaying.
11:47:34  <Alberth> silly edge cases :)
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12:00:56  <frosch123> i thought about adding cookies to eints
12:01:32  <frosch123> so it can hide stuff without permission and store user configurations like related languages
12:01:44  <frosch123> but then we need to copy some cookie policy :p
12:02:02  <frosch123> i also wonder whether storing configurations in cookies is the right thing
12:02:26  <frosch123> or whether we should do the effort and store user settings on the server, so they are the same if the user uses different computers
12:02:40  <frosch123> the string-edit page requires login anyway
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12:07:12  <Alberth> hmm, related languages
12:07:34  <frosch123> 2 out of 4 people said they want to set them themself
12:07:51  <frosch123> since they want to look and languages they know, independent on whether they are similar
12:08:00  <Alberth> yeah, I can see it's a personal-ish thing
12:09:49  <frosch123> well, i think they are different things
12:09:51  <Alberth> server-side would be fancier, but perhaps a lot more complicated?
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12:10:12  <frosch123> it's only more complicated because of policies :p
12:10:38  <frosch123> we need to store some file, with some data struct per user
12:10:42  <frosch123> some json map :p
12:11:21  <Alberth> ah, attach it to eints itself, rather than in the project data base :)
12:11:33  <frosch123> yes, some separate file
12:11:49  <frosch123> not sure which folder to store it in
12:11:54  <frosch123> root_dir does not quite fit :p
12:12:14  <frosch123> maybe root_dir/__config__/users.json
12:12:20  <Alberth> make a new folder 'user_configs'
12:12:45  <frosch123> yeah, independent of the project data dir
12:15:28  <Alberth> I think server-side would be nicest
12:25:27  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: what is the reason that a train slows down at a terminus station over one game day, and then decides reverses a few ticks earlier/later on a client
12:25:48  <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know?
12:26:32  <frosch123> i am just giving you a reason to say later that you knew it :p
12:26:39  <Eddi|zuHause> the current implementation of stop at start/middle/end of station is not based on my code :p
12:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> but that would be the first place i would look. does the game try to stop at the same place
12:29:14  <Eddi|zuHause> if the train is the length of the station, it might still stop at slightly different positions
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12:30:21  <Eddi|zuHause> another issue might be that the "progress" counter is not set/reset correctly
12:30:23  <frosch123> i am still bisecting savegames :p now at a granualrity of 1 tick
12:30:55  <frosch123> no, progress it the same for about a game day between join and desync
12:31:13  <frosch123> all the savegame data stays the same for 1 day
12:31:48  <frosch123> maybe the vehicle changed length, but we print big errors abuot that
12:31:53  <frosch123> unless the errors are broken :p
12:31:54  <Eddi|zuHause> then i'm out of obvious things ;)
12:32:21  <frosch123> it's an iron horse, i thought you knew andy :p
12:32:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand andy most of the time :p
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12:37:47  <andythenorth> frosch123: you want me to write a cookie policy for eints?
12:38:09  <Alberth> all cookies are mine :p
12:38:15  <frosch123> i thought about copying the one from openttd
12:38:22  <frosch123> it's nice and generic and says nothing
12:38:32  <frosch123>
12:38:54  <andythenorth> it’s approximately the same wording as what I would have done
12:39:01  <andythenorth> due to everybody using the same template
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12:41:38  <olligobber> blathijs, o/
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12:46:21  <blathijs> olligobber: hey :-)
12:46:50  <olligobber> blathijs, it seems the timidity issue is affected by pulse
12:47:05  <olligobber> blathijs, I'm narrowing down stuff now
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12:47:25  <blathijs> olligobber: Yeah, given that bypassing pulse seems to "fix" the issue suggests that
12:48:17  <olligobber> blathijs, you been doing your own testing?
12:48:34  <blathijs> olligobber: I tried the pasuspender thing yesterday. NOthing since then, though.
12:49:06  <olligobber> blathijs, the issue also effects audacity
12:50:13  <blathijs> olligobber: What sound card do you have? I'm using a USB audio device here, perhaps that's related?
12:50:48  <olligobber> blathijs, I was also using a USB headset, I'm trying to test a 3.5 connection
12:52:39  <olligobber> blathijs, could you possibly test if using a different audio device helps? I'm having trouble
12:52:46  <blathijs> Yeah, hold on
12:56:30  <blathijs> olligobber: Seems that works. Switching to internal (intel_hda) makes the midi work, switching back to USB and it stays working
12:57:00  <blathijs> It's tricky to switch, though, since the audio stream runs so briefly it doesn't always evne show up in pavucontrol
12:57:58  <blathijs> Actually, now it's garbling for a 5 seconds or so and still not showing up
12:58:18  <olligobber> I had intermittent garbling
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13:02:58  <blathijs> Can't really use pacmd to move timidity to my internal sound card, since I can't predict the sink-input index that will be used (and using a name would have been too luxuruous)
13:04:23  <olligobber> ok, I finally got my front port to work (it was muted in alsamixer)
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13:04:28  <olligobber> and no issue
13:04:34  <olligobber> normal playback
13:07:55  <blathijs> olligobber: So it seems an interaction between timidity, pulseaudio and the USB audio driver...
13:08:19  <olligobber> blathijs, also, audacity, pulseaudio and the usb audio driver
13:09:15  <olligobber> blathijs, and Ubuntu 15.04 (14.10 didn't have this issue)
13:09:54  <blathijs> I'd guess this is a bug in the USB driver, exposed by pulse and certain streams.
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13:11:59  <olligobber> blathijs, what usb device are you using?
13:13:14  <blathijs> olligobber: Terratec Aureon 5.1 USB MKII
13:13:42  <olligobber> blathijs, so it is not device specific (logitech usb headset)
13:14:06  <blathijs> Nope. And the USB driver is known to be a bit buggy at times, I believe
13:14:28  <olligobber> I like this headset :(
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13:21:58  <blathijs> olligobber: If you're willing to dive down the rabbit hole, you could try writing to the pulseaudio maillinglist, or list for Linux' usb audio to see if they have any ideas on the problem. Be sure to ask for debugging suggestions, asking for other people to fix this isn't going to workl
13:22:56  <blathijs> Also, I don't think that the launchpad bug as-is is going to end up with the right people
13:23:01  <olligobber> blathijs, I was chatting to someone in #alsa (freenode) and they helped debug a lot, and recommended #pulseaudio (freenode)
13:23:21  <blathijs> Yeah, that would also be useful
13:23:45  <blathijs> (rather, I don't think that a launchpad bug is the right channel to reach the right people anymore)
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17:45:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27321 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2015-06-27 19:45:18 +0200 )
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> korean - 2 changes by telk5093
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18:02:12  <Alberth> o/
18:06:00  <andythenorth> o/
18:06:04  <andythenorth> @seen danmack
18:06:04  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours, 35 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
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18:11:23  <Alberth> always a happy fellow :)
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19:01:34  <Alberth> gn
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22:59:17  <Wolf01> 'night
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