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00:57:50 *** Pereba [~UserNick@189.115.203.123] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC -> http://www.adiirc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 01:03:00 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:08:12 *** Pulec [~pulec@2a01:4f8:110:1463:127::2] has joined #openttd 01:11:08 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 02:32:02 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d08eb53.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 02:39:02 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d025a2e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:56:52 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:49:40 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 04:53:23 *** ade [~ade@112.115.199.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD49CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67F25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:17:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:17:49 <andythenorth> o/ 07:19:45 <planetmaker> \o 07:22:43 <planetmaker> andythenorth, are you going to reply to every suggestion that it's pointless and no work done anyway? I do think that it's neither helpful nor exactly true but subject to observation bias 07:23:16 <andythenorth> I did wonder if we should ask for the suggestions forum to be locked 07:23:26 <andythenorth> but then theyâd just show up in general OpenTTD forum 07:23:48 <andythenorth> suggestions are inevitable 07:23:59 <planetmaker> yes. And they're good to have 07:24:09 <planetmaker> It's good if there are many more than possible to implement 07:25:09 <andythenorth> I dunno, something feels disingenuous to me about it 07:25:15 <andythenorth> maybe thatâs irrational 07:25:41 <planetmaker> yes, maybe. But don't de-value the contributions. Especially in the suggestions forum it's ok to get creative 07:25:41 <andythenorth> encouraging suggestions that will never be acted upon seems a bit morally dubious 07:25:58 <planetmaker> Answers in the order of 'stop suggestions' are not helpful there 07:25:58 <andythenorth> I wondered about pinning a topic 07:26:19 <andythenorth> explain maybe that suggestions are welcome, but that OpenTTD feature development is mostly ceased 07:26:28 <planetmaker> that's neither true 07:27:07 <planetmaker> why do you put an effort in actively killing the project? 07:27:25 <andythenorth> nah itâs already dead :) 07:27:30 <andythenorth> but thatâs fine 07:27:33 <andythenorth> itâs done, it works 07:27:45 <andythenorth> most developers left because the work is done 07:27:48 <planetmaker> if it dies due to dwindling contributions... ok. But telling people "no, we won't do anything", that's stupid 07:28:25 <andythenorth> I am not strongly disagreeing, but I donât see what we lose by that? 07:28:53 <planetmaker> we loose any hope. And any future which we might have for the project when we bury it before it's dead 07:29:13 <planetmaker> so please, bury your openttd future. But let others keep it alive if they wish 07:29:32 <planetmaker> don't bury it for others, too 07:31:28 <planetmaker> I really don't see a point in starting a vicious cycle 07:31:43 <planetmaker> or spinning it more than it does. whatever 07:33:48 <andythenorth> hmm 07:33:52 <andythenorth> I see it differently :) 07:34:37 <andythenorth> I think OpenTTD has won 07:34:46 <andythenorth> I donât see any loss of hope :) 07:34:54 <planetmaker> well, what's the benefit of calling it done and telling everyone "no point in contributing"? 07:35:02 <planetmaker> It cannot have any positive influence, can it? 07:35:51 <planetmaker> maybe I just don't get it. But please tell me what you want to achieve by that 07:35:55 <andythenorth> moves the burden of responsibility 07:36:15 <planetmaker> No-one has a responsibility. We all do stuff voluntarily 07:36:22 <andythenorth> Iâve seen other projects do this, where most of the core contributors had left 07:36:35 <andythenorth> I donât know whether it succeeded though 07:36:48 <planetmaker> can you point me to some? 07:36:51 <andythenorth> this = be upfront that there is no more active development 07:39:13 <andythenorth> best example is a now 3 or 4 year debate about future of Plone, hereâs an example post http://willrantforbeer.com/post/31216922874/the-second-decade 07:39:42 <andythenorth> Plone, similarly to OpenTTD was one of the best open source projects in its area of application 07:40:17 <andythenorth> although tbh, unlike OpenTTD, itâs turned out to be mostly just wrong 07:40:41 <andythenorth> and unlike OpenTTD, itâs bleeding developers to much better projects 07:41:33 <andythenorth> interestingly, a project also largely driven by northern europeans, especially Germans and Dutch and so on, similar to OpenTTD 07:42:48 <planetmaker> to me (4) doesn't read at all like that attitude 07:42:53 <planetmaker> on the contrary 07:43:16 <planetmaker> he just says "we're moving along but with different people" 07:43:36 <andythenorth> yeah, thereâs a lot more involved 07:43:54 <andythenorth> couple of people who work with me were involved in the Plone Foundation that looks after the project 07:44:03 <andythenorth> lots of politics for a long time 07:45:28 <andythenorth> ugh, so many Plone articles on google, canât find what Iâm looking for :P 07:46:32 <andythenorth> I dunno, itâs probably a bad example 07:46:39 <andythenorth> Plone mostly sucks, OpenTTD doesn't 07:47:48 <andythenorth> Iâve played it intensively recently 07:47:53 <andythenorth> itâs very good 07:49:20 <JezK> plone? 07:49:26 <JezK> the CMS? 07:49:26 <planetmaker> :) 07:49:32 <JezK> or is there another plone? 07:49:39 <planetmaker> the cms, yes 07:50:04 <JezK> ahh, i was thinking you were talking about another openttd style game called plone =p 07:50:09 <andythenorth> the CMS 07:50:32 <andythenorth> not the ambient music producer on Warp records, for which Plone is named 07:51:00 <JezK> aha 07:51:18 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHl6MusFLs 07:51:53 * andythenorth wonders if there are other OpenTTDs :P 07:54:38 <andythenorth> eh, I really donât think the current state of trunk dev is a problem 07:54:48 <andythenorth> there are nearly 70 fixes committed since start of 2015 07:54:53 <andythenorth> mostly by frosch 07:54:57 <andythenorth> thatâs a lot of fixes 07:55:27 <andythenorth> most of the rest of the commits are translator 07:56:06 <andythenorth> couple of features, both small but important 07:58:19 <planetmaker> yes, frosch is the true workhorse nowadays 07:58:30 <andythenorth> maybe it just needs articulating more positively 07:58:34 <planetmaker> we should recruit afd88 ;) 07:58:42 <andythenorth> I stand by the factual truth of what I saud 07:58:43 <andythenorth> said * 07:59:12 <planetmaker> what factual truth? That we only fix and add translations? That's not a truth, I think 07:59:20 <planetmaker> that we got less and less commits? sure 07:59:29 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 07:59:36 <andythenorth> timeframe probably matters 07:59:37 <planetmaker> but imho you mostly stated an attitude. And I'm not sure many share that 07:59:43 <andythenorth> MHL and cdist are big changes 07:59:58 <andythenorth> whether theyâre successful is another matter 08:14:56 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 08:19:08 <andythenorth> eh planetmaker thanks, youâve caused me to work out what is actually bothering me 08:30:21 <planetmaker> :) 08:30:28 <planetmaker> so, what is it actually, andythenorth ? 08:31:04 <andythenorth> three things, only one is important 08:32:01 <andythenorth> frosch can speak for himself, but heâs the main committer this year, and I worry heâll end up rage quitting, or just getting bored 08:32:19 <andythenorth> when youâre the only person really working on a big project, the fun goes 08:32:38 <andythenorth> and when there is a constant stream of demands and requests it is annoying 08:33:09 <planetmaker> agreed 08:33:18 <andythenorth> and when some of the things committed (to get just any new features in) turn out to be failed, or youâre unpicking other peopleâs mistakes 08:33:24 <andythenorth> then that is a recipe for rage quit 08:33:47 <planetmaker> yes, also agreed 08:33:52 <andythenorth> e.g. the stuff to get MHL in 08:34:28 <andythenorth> and http://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=commitdiff;h=80df19434134a46d3a55953d7138df7c32ceeb76 08:35:41 <andythenorth> second thing, although trunk OpenTTD is pretty static, GS, NewGRF, AI and web translations are all active 08:37:23 <planetmaker> ok. How does that bother you, though? 08:37:35 <andythenorth> nah, itâs a good thing actually 08:37:41 <planetmaker> sounds like cause for elation :) ah, ok 08:37:50 <andythenorth> I wonder if it should be emphasised 08:38:51 <andythenorth> third thing is collaboration 08:39:11 <andythenorth> FIRS and OpenGFX both caused a lot of things to advance, because they drew in lots of people 08:39:49 <planetmaker> they did, yes. And tbh, making extensions got a lot easier in the last 5 years or so 08:39:55 <planetmaker> or 6 or 7 08:40:20 <andythenorth> eints was a collaboration 08:40:41 <andythenorth> ah that wasnât the third thing :P 08:40:43 * andythenorth lacks sleep 08:40:47 <andythenorth> third thing was :D 08:41:10 <andythenorth> far as I can tell, Nobody Who Makes the Game Has Played it in Ages 08:41:20 <andythenorth> I mean, itâs funny for a bit, but actually itâs a good game 08:41:24 <planetmaker> frosch plays regularily. Alberth, too 08:41:34 <andythenorth> ok 08:42:17 <andythenorth> sometimes it seems like irc chat is between people playing the game secondhand via forums :P 08:42:49 <andythenorth> Busy Bee was nearly a collaboration :( 08:42:56 <andythenorth> but I couldnât learn Squirrel fast enough 08:46:55 <planetmaker> :) Next one then 08:47:04 <planetmaker> with reversed roles 08:51:13 * andythenorth bbl, work time 08:51:13 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 09:08:42 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:16:07 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:20 *** newbie2 [609588@shell.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:34:00 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:34:23 <newbie2> Hi. I would like to see the local authority rating points. I can see the rating (e.g. 'poor'), but I want to see the rating points (e.g. '-150'). I want to see the points to learn better how it works/changes. Is there a way to see the points? 09:52:44 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 10:06:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 10:12:43 <planetmaker> newbie2, the rating do not have any more detailed interface. However there's a wiki page on those which explain the details 10:13:13 <planetmaker> https://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Local_authority_rating 10:14:26 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 10:21:30 <newbie2> planetmaker: OK, so I don't need to click around more to try to find it. Thanks. 10:22:59 <newbie2> Also for the pointer to the wiki page. 10:26:45 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:35:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:47:09 <__ln__> http://www.arianespace.com/launch-services-soyuz/Soyuz-Users-Manual-March-2012.pdf 11:12:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:28:46 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 11:53:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 12:01:38 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:09:53 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-138-102.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 12:19:49 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:20:48 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 12:20:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 12:27:57 *** newbie2 [609588@shell.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:32:24 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 12:34:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:07:20 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@tinodidriksen.com] has quit [Quit: http://tinodidriksen.com/] 13:20:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 13:25:03 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:33 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@wolf.projectjj.com] has joined #openttd 13:33:41 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:17 *** shirish [~quassel@117.202.207.47] has joined #openttd 13:45:06 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:49:26 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:49:27 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd 13:49:30 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 14:18:20 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:47:22 <Terkhen> hello 14:47:28 <Alberth> o/ 14:48:01 <andythenorth> o/ 14:56:46 *** Pereba [~UserNick@191.32.183.212] has joined #openttd 15:21:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B56B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:27:41 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:16 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:55:36 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:06:48 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 16:25:04 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:29:58 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-218-77.tal.is] has joined #openttd 16:32:51 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:32:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:45:18 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: boom] 16:53:57 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 16:58:17 <peter1138> evening 16:58:28 <andythenorth> lo 16:58:30 <planetmaker> o/ 16:58:35 <Rubidium> isn't it still afternoon in BST? 16:58:49 <andythenorth> on the cusp 16:59:00 <andythenorth> in the street outside my office, many people have started their evening 17:04:03 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:04:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:04:43 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:06:33 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:00 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d08eb53.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Yo.] 17:17:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:33:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:49 <Wolf01> o/ 17:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause> after the noon is before the noon 17:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (vaguely based on a famous german football phrase) 17:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27336 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2015-07-17 19:45:14 +0200 ) 17:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:25 <DorpsGek> greek - 36 changes by Jubilee 17:45:44 <Eddi|zuHause> do english speakers ever use the phrase "beforenoon"? 17:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there exists the equivalent german phrase 17:47:05 <peter1138> no, that's just morning 17:47:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d00834a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:47:58 * peter1138 cracks out the cider 17:49:29 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 17:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well, "beforenoon" would be the phase after you've properly woken up, and are capable of getting actual work done, and before the lunch break 17:54:21 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 17:58:36 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has joined #openttd 18:03:01 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B47BC2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:13:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18808.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:19:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:19 <andythenorth> also 18:20:58 <andythenorth> peter1138: is it proper cider? 18:23:30 <andythenorth> https://www.eebria.com/media/products/177/20141023182012121/450x450.jpg 18:23:57 <peter1138> it's... store bought 18:25:05 <peter1138> http://img.tesco.com/Groceries/pi/173/5014201800173/IDShot_540x540.jpg 18:25:40 <andythenorth> not scrump :) 18:25:47 * andythenorth buys westons in pubs 18:25:57 <andythenorth> but itâs a bitâŠclean 18:26:02 <andythenorth> and doesnât glow in the dark 18:26:29 <peter1138> an essential attribute 18:31:24 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@191.32.183.212] has joined #openttd 18:37:43 *** Pereba [~UserNick@191.32.183.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:44 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 18:38:58 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:32 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd 18:52:05 <andythenorth> eh indulge me 18:52:29 <andythenorth> _if_ there was a v2, and _if_ a v2 is a chance to break backwards compatibility 18:52:34 <andythenorth> what to delete? 18:54:35 <planetmaker> base set backward compatibility 18:55:17 <planetmaker> removing newgrf ability to modify the base vehicles. Thus allow base sets to do what they want 18:55:23 <andythenorth> o_O 18:55:38 <planetmaker> --> better out-of-box experience 18:56:23 <planetmaker> we would need to recruit andythenorth, Pokka and V to make us a new, nice one, though 18:56:35 <planetmaker> but I'm sure they'll manage 18:57:00 <frosch123> he, that's about the most sane suggestion for v2 i have read :) 18:57:44 <frosch123> v1 was to not depend on original baseset 18:57:49 <frosch123> v2 is to not depend on any baseset :p 18:58:12 <andythenorth> :) 18:58:15 <Rubidium> graphics: replace with something better, i.e. no NewGRF but something more sane (remove many inconsistencies), forced rotation of graphics (and thus map rotation), ... 18:58:25 * andythenorth would get rid of drive-in roadstops :P 18:58:36 <andythenorth> small thing, but theyâre really crufty 19:00:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: which bits of newgrf spec would go in the bin? o_O 19:00:16 <planetmaker> v6 and earlier 19:00:21 <planetmaker> at least 19:00:26 <andythenorth> if Rubidiumâs suggestion was enacted, all of newgrf :P 19:00:35 <planetmaker> vehicles not 19:00:42 <peter1138> multicore rewrite ;) 19:00:47 <andythenorth> if there was rotation, FIRS buildings would all become square, and symmetrical in both axes :P 19:01:04 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:01:09 <peter1138> cubicals 19:01:24 <andythenorth> thatâs new stuff :) 19:01:27 <andythenorth> not deleting :) 19:01:29 <frosch123> well, certainly decoupling of graphics from game logic 19:01:46 <frosch123> no animation state in map array and such 19:02:15 <frosch123> no tileloop and such 19:02:42 <andythenorth> drop the crazy cargo refitting decision tree :P 19:02:43 <planetmaker> that then would allow a true client-server structure 19:03:52 <andythenorth> delete outsized maps :) 19:04:12 <frosch123> make it like factorio 19:04:23 <frosch123> make the map expand when you explore/build things 19:04:28 <andythenorth> do I have to install factorio? :P 19:04:36 <andythenorth> it seems to have fans here :) 19:04:39 <frosch123> then we could play multiplayer 19:04:54 <frosch123> i haven't played factorio in multiplayer 19:05:10 <frosch123> but i think it needs to played at #ccop scale 19:05:12 * andythenorth needs time off work 19:05:23 <andythenorth> but if I take time off work, Iâll spend it with my kids 19:05:26 <andythenorth> this is how it goes :P 19:05:40 *** snorre_ [~snorre@89.9.171.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:05:40 * andythenorth isnât complaining, itâs fun 19:05:53 <frosch123> make the children do the work instead 19:06:17 <andythenorth> ha 19:06:22 <andythenorth> nah theyâll be big enough soon 19:06:32 <andythenorth> already 5 years gone by 19:09:27 *** snorre [~snorre@89.9.175.125] has joined #openttd 19:10:08 <andythenorth> not many deletion suggestions eh? :) 19:10:40 <Rubidium> okay, you're asking for it... Windows and OSX support 19:10:58 <andythenorth> plausible 19:12:18 <frosch123> airports :) 19:12:26 <andythenorth> ho 19:12:32 <andythenorth> total removal? o_O 19:13:05 <frosch123> similar to drive-in roadstops 19:13:28 <andythenorth> no planes? o_O 19:13:44 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/tba6907.png <- build aircraft infrastructure like road stops 19:14:05 <andythenorth> hmm 19:14:07 <andythenorth> feature 19:14:07 <frosch123> remove the statemachine stuff 19:14:12 <frosch123> statemachines are boring 19:14:13 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:14:28 <andythenorth> docks? 19:14:38 <andythenorth> canals :P 19:14:57 <frosch123> boring as timetables, cdist, pbs, pathfinders, ... all the things that decide things for the player 19:15:18 <frosch123> though i guess pathfinders needs to stay an option :p 19:15:26 <andythenorth> timetables are boring 19:15:39 <andythenorth> cdist isâŠtechnically impressive, but only really works for pax :P 19:15:46 <andythenorth> pbs I would really miss :( 19:15:59 <andythenorth> PBS probably the single most transforming feature Iâve seen ship :P 19:16:11 <andythenorth> hmm 19:16:13 <andythenorth> actually 19:16:20 <frosch123> we need a different type of pbs :p 19:16:36 <frosch123> it should not be one that routes vehicles automatically 19:16:55 <andythenorth> by making trains pretty easy to route on complex networks, PBS disadvantages the other transport types even more 19:17:00 <frosch123> but one that allows players to (optionally) micromanage which routes may enter the signal block in parallel 19:17:29 <andythenorth> also PBS introduction was when I turned breakdowns off 19:17:47 <frosch123> nah, breakdowns will stay, else it's no "ttd" :p 19:17:51 <andythenorth> probably coincidence, but trains seemed to not find depots reliably without explicit orders 19:18:00 <andythenorth> after PBS 19:18:11 <frosch123> no coincidence 19:18:13 <planetmaker> lol frosch123 :) 19:18:30 <frosch123> a train follows a reserved path 19:18:36 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:48 <frosch123> so, a train needs to make the decision to go to a depot at the signal instead of at the junction 19:18:53 <frosch123> so, path to depots is longer 19:19:03 <frosch123> also, path penalties are different with pbs signals 19:19:51 <frosch123> so, i am not surprised that pbs breaks some depot track layouts 19:19:56 <frosch123> though none which i use :p 19:21:08 <andythenorth> :o 19:21:12 * andythenorth is shocked 19:21:17 <andythenorth> nobody mentioned high score table :) 19:21:42 <frosch123> aren't they already removed? :p 19:22:05 <frosch123> funnily noone complained about that :p 19:23:04 <planetmaker> no-one used it anyway ;) 19:23:40 <andythenorth> still here for me :P 19:24:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: there were once 4 highscore tables 19:24:06 <frosch123> now there is 1 19:24:33 * andythenorth has to test this 19:24:34 <andythenorth> :P 19:25:28 * andythenorth finds 19:25:36 <andythenorth> - high score table in start game screen 19:25:40 <andythenorth> - high score table in game 19:25:50 <andythenorth> - detailed performance rating 19:25:54 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B47BC2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:26:00 <andythenorth> - company league table 19:26:20 <frosch123> there are 5 highscore tables 19:26:46 <andythenorth> balls, I missed some :( 19:26:50 <frosch123> 3 for difficulty levels (removed), 1 for custom difficulty (still exists), 1 for multiplayer (only within a single game, not stored on disk) 19:27:21 <andythenorth> well 19:27:27 <andythenorth> in the start game screen 19:27:41 <andythenorth> get rid of âgame optionsâ and âhigh score tableâ and the layout balances :) 19:29:09 <planetmaker> and add 'wiki' and 'favourite server' buttons instead 19:32:16 <andythenorth> ha 19:32:44 <andythenorth> in this mind game, you canât make feature suggestions, no matter how good :) 19:33:02 <andythenorth> remove maglev :P 19:33:07 <andythenorth> mostly because itâs ugly 19:33:57 <frosch123> well, i guess remove the stuff which noone care about, like stocks :p 19:34:30 <andythenorth> they are so lame 19:34:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18808.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:42 <andythenorth> railroad tycoon 3 had an awesome stock market 19:34:47 *** Pereba [~UserNick@191.32.183.212] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 19:34:49 <andythenorth> some scenarios were pure stock trading 19:35:29 <andythenorth> did infrastructure costs actually achieve the aim of rebalancing the game? 19:35:38 <andythenorth> or is it just something that we forget to turn off in multiplayer? 19:35:39 <andythenorth> :P 19:36:04 <frosch123> it removed airports from the game or so :p 19:36:20 *** Pereba [~UserNick@191.32.183.212] has joined #openttd 19:36:39 <andythenorth> hmmâŠinflation...? 19:37:24 <frosch123> anyway, yes, none of the air features like noise limit, distance limit, infra cost seem to have received any big scale approval 19:37:36 <planetmaker> inflation... should go 19:37:50 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 19:37:56 <planetmaker> but doesn't really matter 19:37:56 <frosch123> realism should go :) 19:38:01 <andythenorth> +lots 19:38:22 <andythenorth> noise limit is just a thing I have to use OpenGFX+ Airports to circumvent 19:38:37 <andythenorth> one reason we donât play those fun MP games very often 19:38:47 <andythenorth> is that it takes so fricking long to configure a game âcorrectly' 19:39:13 <frosch123> that's only because my settings are always messed up due to debugging 19:40:01 <andythenorth> and so are mineâŠand planetmakerâsâŠand alberthâs :P 19:40:07 <frosch123> we need settings profiles :) 19:40:57 <frosch123> maybe load the previous game, change the seed and use "restart" to get new map with same settings 19:41:31 <andythenorth> intriguing idea 19:41:34 *** Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [SeaMonkey 2.33.1/20150410200411]] 19:41:39 <andythenorth> what else confuses people to no benefit? 19:41:50 * andythenorth is looking in the game 19:41:57 <andythenorth> so many *good* features got added 19:42:11 <andythenorth> the game is radically better than 0.4 or whatever I started playing 19:42:21 <frosch123> the best features were always the interface features :) 19:42:53 <frosch123> and removing building restrictions 19:42:55 <andythenorth> yes 19:43:00 <andythenorth> roadstops on steep slopes 19:43:04 <andythenorth> alphabetised lists 19:43:08 <andythenorth> map colour 19:43:16 <andythenorth> and so on 19:43:38 <andythenorth> most of the attempts to âfix game balanceâ or âadd realismâ are FAIL 19:44:19 <planetmaker> they're fail because of backward compatibility 19:44:51 <frosch123> really? why? 19:45:16 <frosch123> game balance is not fixable, because "money" is the only thing in ottd, and money is gained exponentially in every game i have ever seen 19:45:22 <frosch123> thus most games have something other than money 19:45:50 <andythenorth> the casual games (dragon farming, angry birds etc) my kids play 19:46:05 <planetmaker> maybe not because of that. But makes it definitely harder :) 19:46:11 <frosch123> "realism" is has ruined quite some features which should have been interesting, but i do not see where compatibility goes into that 19:46:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: is âsmooth economyâ actually better? 19:46:53 <andythenorth> I never tested FIRS without it 19:46:55 <frosch123> no 19:47:01 * andythenorth wondered 19:47:12 <frosch123> when i was a noob to ottd i thought smooth economy was awesome 19:47:13 <andythenorth> and saw the comment added 19:47:18 <andythenorth> +1 19:47:33 <frosch123> but it's a stochastical fallacy 19:47:36 <frosch123> like your 3 doors thingie 19:47:44 <andythenorth> what was the intent of it? 19:47:54 <frosch123> smooth economy actually removes randomness, by adding so many small random changes, that they all average out 19:48:06 <frosch123> andythenorth: likely "realism" :p 19:48:06 <andythenorth> needs black swan events :P 19:48:32 <andythenorth> âmultiple industries per townâ still a setting, really? 19:48:35 <andythenorth> how boring 19:49:16 <frosch123> yeah, that's a weird setting :p 19:49:32 <planetmaker> that's indeed weired 19:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: FIRS overrides smooth economy with the production callback 19:49:42 <andythenorth> I know 19:49:42 <planetmaker> is it still real? 19:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so the setting has no effect 19:50:01 <andythenorth> yes, the help text also explains the same 19:50:50 <andythenorth> towns canât prevent newgrf building multiple industries per town? 19:50:52 * andythenorth tests 19:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the last time i played without an industry set (and thus with smooth economy) was before industry sets were supported 19:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically, the first industry set i played was alpine, which probably leaves smooth economy untouched 19:51:40 <andythenorth> ho, no the multiple industry setting does apply to newgrf 19:52:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, why wouldn't it? 19:53:11 <andythenorth> because the location cbs are used? 19:53:29 <andythenorth> why wouldnât the smooth economy apply to industries using production cb? 19:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> because there can only ever be one way to set the production level 20:00:04 <andythenorth> dunno, seems to be unclear about proper domain 20:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and nobody made the production callback compatible with non-power-of-two increments 20:00:43 <andythenorth> remove canals? 20:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 20:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> make them cheaper to build, but more expensive to maintain 20:01:15 <andythenorth> thatâs just newgrf 20:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ignore newgrfs 20:01:39 <andythenorth> fair comment 20:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> 99% of all people will never use newgrfs 20:01:49 <planetmaker> I don't think so 20:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause> 99% of all people will never change the default settings 20:02:08 <andythenorth> remove rivers? 20:02:29 <frosch123> remove flooding sea? 20:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (this applies to almost all programs ever made) 20:02:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that sounds fine 20:03:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: interesting 20:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: offer flat shore sprites 20:03:43 <andythenorth> ha 20:03:47 <andythenorth> âDisable electric railsâ 20:03:54 <andythenorth> is that just a setting in case you have a stuck train? 20:04:01 <andythenorth> does it also make all railtypes powered? 20:04:12 <frosch123> it's from the time when catenary was horribly misaligned 20:04:16 <frosch123> and people wanted to play without elrails 20:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> or remove the current way of providing sea shores, and provide them more like river shores (but a sandy-er version) 20:04:31 <frosch123> then it was properly aligned, and then came transpacency settings 20:04:40 <planetmaker> :) 20:04:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: you missed eddi's hind 20:04:45 <frosch123> *hint 20:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is a setting for TTD-purists that basically has no point in being there anymore 20:04:50 <frosch123> flat shores mean flat docks :p 20:05:01 <andythenorth> thatâs a feature :) 20:05:02 <planetmaker> :) 20:05:04 <andythenorth> not a deletion 20:05:17 <andythenorth> you have to phrase it as âdelete docks that need slopes' 20:05:18 <planetmaker> probably would make sense. And flat bridges= :P 20:05:43 <andythenorth> deleting a lot of things would transform the game to a v2, and clear away a lot of crap 20:05:49 <andythenorth> and is achieveable :P 20:06:00 <andythenorth> adding features needs design, spec, blah blah blah 20:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the "remove electric rail" settings make all electric trains also powered on non-electric rail 20:06:36 <andythenorth> it looked like a thing for unsticking stuck trains :P 20:06:41 <andythenorth> seems daft 20:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and then converts all ELRL to RAIL 20:07:14 <andythenorth> remove river rapids? 20:07:20 <andythenorth> dunno, rivers are tedious 20:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, but make it more obvious that ships cannot traverse them, and make locks easier to place along such a rapid 20:07:44 <peter1138> oh yeah, i was doing something with docks wasn't i? 20:07:59 <andythenorth> probably :) 20:08:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: shorter locks? 20:08:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no reason why locks are as huge as they are, other than the ships are also huge 20:09:17 <planetmaker> locks should just be normal station tiles which can be placed on water or shore tiles 20:09:18 <andythenorth> remove the bit of cb15E that makes it trivial to break orders silently :) 20:09:28 <andythenorth> planetmaker: locks / docks /s 20:09:28 <andythenorth> ? 20:09:30 <planetmaker> freely buildable like track-less rail station tiles 20:09:38 <planetmaker> yes, dock tiles. sorry 20:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i called these things "traffic objects" 20:09:56 <andythenorth> ha, remove cargo subtypesâŠ? o_O 20:10:02 <andythenorth> theyâre dozy 20:10:04 <planetmaker> yes, probably 20:10:13 <andythenorth> even though I use subtypes in a few places still :P 20:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> look at how subtypes are abused currently, and provide new methods reproducing those features without abusing anything 20:11:29 <Eddi|zuHause> like "vehicle views" that are set in purchase menu, and then cannot be changed anymore afterwards 20:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause> other than selling the vehicle and buying a new one 20:14:06 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:14:07 <andythenorth> remove the cbs that arenât cb 36, but duplicate it 20:14:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: we were already at remove newgrf 20:14:58 <frosch123> why do you talk calbacks? 20:14:59 <andythenorth> oh yeah 20:15:08 * andythenorth apologises profusely 20:15:56 <andythenorth> somehow Iâd like to remove finances window, but that makes no sense 20:16:05 * andythenorth finds the finances window really non-useful 20:17:39 <peter1138> remove openttd 20:18:00 <andythenorth> :( 20:18:10 <andythenorth> this is not a game of mornington crescent 20:18:17 <andythenorth> and you do not pass go and collect £200 20:19:21 <andythenorth> ho, remove trams...? 20:19:24 <andythenorth> theyâre a bit silly 20:19:45 <frosch123> maybe remove vehicle income 20:20:09 <andythenorth> that is actually interesting 20:20:17 <andythenorth> would totally change the game 20:20:31 <andythenorth> itâs crap as an economic sim 20:20:46 <andythenorth> the economics were clearly a total âcanât really be arsedâ for Chris Sawyer 20:20:54 <frosch123> you get money for building tracks and providing a transport capacity 20:21:06 <andythenorth> you have a total cost, and a total revenue 20:21:12 <frosch123> you lose money if you fail to provide the capacity 20:21:17 <andythenorth> no more leg profit calculation crap 20:21:26 <andythenorth> no more âthis vehicle is losing money' 20:21:38 <andythenorth> no more feature requests for full vehicle economic history 20:21:41 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 20:21:52 <andythenorth> no need for red / green symbols in the vehicle list 20:22:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: experimental branch? o_O 20:23:26 <frosch123> not for me :p 20:23:38 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:23:39 <frosch123> money is after all still not interesting :p 20:23:50 * andythenorth wonders if itâs a good idea, or just sounds like a good idea 20:23:56 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust13.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 20:24:18 <frosch123> it's certainly an idea which noone will understand :p 20:24:35 <andythenorth> well, I understood it :( 20:25:09 <andythenorth> in the dragon farming casual game, individual dragon profitability is not tracked :P 20:25:21 <andythenorth> they just farm wood and fish, and you get a score :P 20:25:33 <andythenorth> you pick the ones that look cool and have good stats 20:27:45 <andythenorth> frosch123: eh, money is not interesting, or money should be removed from the game totally? 20:29:47 <frosch123> you need something to pace the game 20:30:00 <andythenorth> could be other ways 20:30:03 <andythenorth> tech levels and such 20:30:12 <andythenorth> âlevel upâ is a very silly mechanic 20:30:18 <andythenorth> except it works, annoyingly well :( 20:30:21 <frosch123> you should be able to do what is necessary, but not more 20:30:55 <andythenorth> âstate-owned transportation tycoon' 20:30:57 <andythenorth> :P 20:30:58 <frosch123> hmm, remove landscaping? :p 20:31:02 <andythenorth> ha 20:31:10 <andythenorth> that would hurt my game style :) 20:31:16 <planetmaker> well, one kinda can do that already. To some degree 20:31:30 <frosch123> i think most modern games do not support landscaping 20:31:35 <frosch123> but only tunneling and foundations 20:31:39 <frosch123> to some limited amount 20:31:48 <andythenorth> minecraft? o_O 20:31:55 * andythenorth doesnât play many games tbh 20:32:26 <frosch123> i don't think "landscaping" fits into the minecraft category 20:33:01 * andythenorth considers trying a game with self-imposed no landscaping rule 20:33:02 <frosch123> can you landscape in todays' simcity? or train fever? 20:33:05 <andythenorth> dunno 20:33:11 <andythenorth> not in Railroad Tycoon 20:33:15 <frosch123> i only saw bridges, tunnels and foundations 20:33:20 <frosch123> but no manual hills 20:34:03 <frosch123> and certainly no hill flattening or sea flooding 20:34:32 <frosch123> i.e. the landscape is static except for where tracks are 20:35:32 <andythenorth> interesting 20:35:50 <andythenorth> how about landscaping, but only 1 level above or below original grade? 20:38:49 <planetmaker> yes... would increase the challange in some places 20:41:46 * andythenorth has run out of removal ideas 20:41:52 <andythenorth> did I mention trams? 20:43:02 <peter1138> that would ruin copy & paste 20:43:06 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08eb53.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 20:46:07 <andythenorth> just remove that :) 20:46:11 <andythenorth> perhaps not :P 20:49:52 <andythenorth> frosch123: remove station walking? o_O 20:51:01 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:51:52 <frosch123> one could reduce the incoming for the distance from train wagon to industry 20:52:01 <frosch123> but we already removed vehicle income 20:52:03 <frosch123> so, crap :p 20:52:54 <frosch123> i.e. a feeder truck from industry to station platform should be cheaper than using the station spread for transport 20:53:13 <frosch123> possibly needs trucks on stations 20:53:24 <andythenorth> ? 20:53:46 <frosch123> cargo is not stored in the station sign, but on single platforms or even tiles 20:53:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18808.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:53:54 <frosch123> you can use trucks to move cargo to platforms 20:54:08 <frosch123> or pay for expensive automatic transport within station spread 20:54:32 <andythenorth> interesting 20:54:51 <frosch123> whenever the game does something automatically for you 20:55:01 <andythenorth> would also unintentionally improve the display of cargo at stations (except weâre deleting newgrf) :) 20:55:01 <frosch123> there should be the option to do it better with micro management 20:55:19 <frosch123> i think that holds for everything in the game: signalling, routing, cargo distribuition 20:56:00 <frosch123> automatic is easy mode, manual adjustments are advanced mode 20:56:13 <andythenorth> like a camera :P 20:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> you lose money if you fail to provide the capacity <-- that is how i think subsidies should work 20:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you get 60 months exclusive rights, if you transport <X> during that time, you get paid, otherwise you lose money 20:57:20 <frosch123> whenever there was something that could not be controlled correctly in ottd, someone added some automatic to solve it 20:57:40 <andythenorth> except 20:57:46 <andythenorth> thatâs hard to do well :P 20:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i always wanted to micromanage approach loops on airports 20:57:56 <andythenorth> but it avoids user interface design 20:58:10 <frosch123> like pbs to replace detailed signalling/routing, cdist to replace fractional transfer orders 20:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but the timetabling was not fine enough 20:58:22 <andythenorth> also the trend to larger maps tends towards automation 20:58:29 <planetmaker> then we need to allow afd88 the polyline track tool. And the other one with multi-tracks, too ;) 20:58:35 <andythenorth> because I have 10,000 trains :( 20:58:36 <frosch123> timetabling to replace programmable orders 20:58:45 <planetmaker> and actually... they make sense 20:59:03 <frosch123> polyline is nice, yes 20:59:07 * andythenorth would sooner have a 100 year game on a 256x256 map :P 20:59:17 <planetmaker> we should probably tell him... 20:59:32 <frosch123> multitrack is not quite for me 20:59:48 <frosch123> it's along the copy&paste stuff, it has no purpose on interesting maps 21:00:03 <andythenorth> I just spent 75 years making one spine route work on this map :P 21:00:03 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7369/Wafflebury%20Transport,%2007-02-2050%20export.png 21:00:13 <andythenorth> maybe Iâm just bad at train networks, dunno 21:00:22 <andythenorth> but Busy Bee kept wanting stuff added :P 21:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause> multitrack tool will only mean that i always pick the wrong track tile to extend 21:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so the other track is on the wrong side 21:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why does this screenshot look so distorted? 21:02:39 <frosch123> anyway, to finish my point. i don't think automatics make good gameplay 21:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i do 21:02:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: compressed to make it smaller 21:02:54 <frosch123> there should always be a micromanagent option 21:02:55 <andythenorth> it was silly size 21:03:07 <andythenorth> frosch123: +1 21:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but there should always also exist an atomatic option 21:03:24 * andythenorth is now micro-managing cdist :P 21:03:25 <frosch123> same for airports. the newgrf statemachine spec makes an interesting challenge for the newgrf author to design their favorite airport 21:03:38 <planetmaker> :) true. But not for the player 21:03:46 <andythenorth> too many features for authors :P 21:03:50 <andythenorth> except the ones I asked for 21:03:51 <frosch123> but it is as boring to gameplay as placing a fixed 16x16 object that always looks the same 21:03:52 <andythenorth> theyâre great 21:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: include the airport minigame into grfcodec ;) 21:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: or the game, for that matter 21:05:06 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-138-102.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 21:05:13 <andythenorth> frosch123: after my last few games, Iâm convinced the fun is cramming routes into the terrain 21:05:30 <andythenorth> not pissing about making pseudo economic choices about which vehicle to use and such 21:05:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: that has always also been my goal :) 21:06:17 <frosch123> thus mountainious maps, and silicon valley 21:06:52 <andythenorth> yup 21:07:05 <frosch123> the goal of silicon valley is actually how i mostly play 21:07:46 <andythenorth> my last map had only one of each major processing industry 21:07:57 <andythenorth> defacto, similar result :P 21:08:24 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 21:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never used silicon valley 21:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i rarely ever get to play with cargos, as passengers are trumping everything 21:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> passengers are IMBA! 21:09:42 <frosch123> i never liked pax, because they are bidirectional 21:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i always liked pax since i played paxdest 21:10:00 <frosch123> transporting something back after you transported it to some place never made sense to me :p 21:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> before that i found pax incredibly boring and stupid 21:10:41 <frosch123> well, the only interesting thing i see about cdist is that it increases the network load over time, by making cargo stay longer on board 21:10:49 <frosch123> but that likely only works for pax 21:11:37 <frosch123> so, well, yes, cdist for pax :) 21:12:06 <andythenorth> I donât like to criticise cdist :| 21:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, cargodist works best on passengers, and worst on goods/food 21:12:22 <andythenorth> but it has rather a lot of user visible settings, for something that only automates transfers 21:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes other cargos easier to transfer, but may have side effects 21:13:56 <andythenorth> you just have to change route building 21:14:11 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:20 <andythenorth> one pickup station per destination 21:14:34 <Eddi|zuHause> no. one destination per cargo 21:14:36 <andythenorth> then station rating takes care of distribution, and cdist does the transfer 21:14:38 <frosch123> maybe we should rename it 21:14:49 <frosch123> "cargo distribution" -> "cargo-based pathfinder" :p 21:14:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: nah that is totally incompatible with GS like Busy Bee 21:15:01 <andythenorth> my method works 21:15:29 <andythenorth> and it increases the challenge interestingly, because more stations have to be crammed in around an industry 21:15:35 <andythenorth> instead of one mega station, which is trivial 21:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> well, one destination per linkgraph connected component 21:15:44 <andythenorth> exactly 21:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but you run into the problem of only 2 stations getting cargo 21:16:35 <andythenorth> ah 21:16:40 <andythenorth> is that a thing that happens? 21:17:04 <andythenorth> I had unexpected vehicles-waiting when I had 5 or so pickup stations 21:17:07 <andythenorth> all with very high ratings 21:17:15 <andythenorth> and cargo waiting at other stations 21:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, only the 2 stations with highest rating get cargo. so unless the rating drops because of cargo waiting, the other stations never get cargo 21:17:56 <andythenorth> ach 21:18:01 <andythenorth> my new method is totally flawed :( 21:18:07 <andythenorth> I thought Iâd defeated cdist :( 21:18:25 <planetmaker> I think that's a limit which also could go. Or the logic behind distribution onto stations could use a change 21:18:50 <andythenorth> I assumed it was a bug :P 21:19:01 <frosch123> yup, reduce station spread, and add truck transport to single industries :p 21:19:15 <frosch123> the problem does not exist with zero station catchment area :p 21:19:34 <frosch123> give all industries built-in truck stops 21:19:36 <andythenorth> how do the trucks pickup from the industry? o_O 21:19:38 <andythenorth> oh 21:19:39 <andythenorth> that 21:19:47 <andythenorth> we had a hack for that in FIRS :P 21:19:54 <andythenorth> gaps in buildings :P 21:19:58 <andythenorth> failed 21:19:58 <planetmaker> hm, interesting idea, frosch123 21:20:28 <frosch123> but rv capacity actually must be able to serve a single industry's output :p 21:20:42 <andythenorth> that isâŠhmm 21:20:45 <andythenorth> could be done :P 21:20:51 <frosch123> usually that has been a fail part of those "gaps in building" 21:20:58 <frosch123> a signle tile station cannot handle the load 21:21:06 <andythenorth> make RV stations like depots :P 21:21:12 <andythenorth> probably not a direction you like :) 21:21:35 <andythenorth> infinite capacity, constrained throughput rate 21:21:54 <andythenorth> âupgrade this industryâ 21:21:57 <andythenorth> :P 21:22:13 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:22:14 <frosch123> make rv slow, high capacity and expensive 21:22:23 <andythenorth> I believe somebody tried that once 21:22:26 <andythenorth> :P 21:22:28 <frosch123> so they work only as feeder 21:22:43 <andythenorth> add the conveyor / pipe transport type 21:22:48 <andythenorth> but also slow and expensive 21:22:51 <frosch123> the high capacity makes them able to move cargo to station 21:23:07 <frosch123> but the slow speed and high cost makes them unable to turn in a profit 21:23:08 <andythenorth> sounds like a tram :P 21:23:12 <frosch123> which must be done by the fast train 21:23:22 <frosch123> but the fast train is unable to pickup the cargo directly from the industry 21:23:41 <andythenorth> is this how factorio works? 21:23:47 * andythenorth googles 21:24:00 <frosch123> factorio has 4 transport methods 21:24:06 <frosch123> belts, which are awesome 21:24:21 <frosch123> pipelines which are boring, essentially like canals :p 21:24:55 <frosch123> trains which i haven't figured out how to use correctly, and i am currently thinking they only work at #coop scale 21:25:37 <frosch123> and flying robots, which are like aircraft. too easy to be fun 21:27:28 <andythenorth> hmm, there is OS X version 21:28:07 <andythenorth> ach /me should go to sleep 21:28:52 <andythenorth> did someone make a copy of the deletion roadmap then? ^^^^^ o_O 21:29:46 <frosch123> just delete everything 21:29:52 <frosch123> then add back what you want to keep 21:30:02 <frosch123> that way you do not miss something to remove 21:31:04 <andythenorth> oh I actually have to run around in factorio? 21:31:24 <frosch123> it is also possibly to play without character 21:31:27 <andythenorth> hmm inventory and stuff 21:31:34 * andythenorth is not very good at this kind of game :P 21:31:43 <frosch123> not sure what method is easier to play 21:31:44 <andythenorth> I have enough trouble remembering my RL phone and keys 21:31:56 <frosch123> with a character you are blocked by inftrastructure 21:32:30 <andythenorth> the alternative is freeplay? 21:32:36 * andythenorth will try more tomorrow 21:32:47 <andythenorth> I tried Kerbal for a bit, but couldnât work it 21:33:04 <andythenorth> Euro Truck Simulator 2 has awful graphics, so that was disappointing 21:33:17 <andythenorth> I had a bridge building game, but couldnât complete level 12 or such 21:33:21 <andythenorth> and 2048 is over :P 21:33:24 * andythenorth needs a new game 21:33:44 <andythenorth> also bed 21:33:45 <andythenorth> bye 21:33:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:35:10 <frosch123> hmm, bridge builder... that was a thing in 2001 :p 21:35:26 <frosch123> hmm, likely even somewhat earlier 21:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i played bridge builder around 2001, but none of the updated/remade versions that came later 21:40:29 <frosch123> i also tried the first 3d version as a demo 21:40:36 <frosch123> but it did not convince me 21:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> what ever happened to Moorhuhn? 21:40:54 <frosch123> it got replaced with candy crush 21:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that was probably the first viral game i came across 21:41:18 <frosch123> after solitaire? 21:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that wasn't exactly viral, in the sense that it was spread by "mouth-to-mouth" 21:42:02 <frosch123> anyway, today people play on their smartphones at work, no longer on the office computers :p 21:42:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it was just there, so everybody played it 21:42:03 <Hiddenfunstuff> how bout that space pinball found from Win XP? 21:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Hiddenfunstuff: same story 21:42:35 <frosch123> i liked the epic pinball from 1993 or so 21:42:46 <frosch123> no other pinball was as interesting after that 21:43:02 <frosch123> "epic megagames pinball" or so 21:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember how the pinball game i played was called 21:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the first game ever that i remember playing was sokoban 21:43:40 <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Pinball 21:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and a version of tetris that went way too fast unless you pressed the turbo button 21:44:16 <frosch123> wow, i guessed the date correctly :o 21:44:18 <frosch123> didn't expect that 21:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no, it was definitely not that 21:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it was probably earlier than that 21:50:14 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 21:51:54 <frosch123> http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/716700-moraff-s-pinball-dos-screenshot-a-game-in-progress-vga-format.png <- there was also that one 21:52:01 <frosch123> cleary written with borland stuff 21:52:05 <frosch123> and seriously buggy 21:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that wasn't it either 21:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i have no clue what to search for 21:53:18 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and i have no floppy disk drive to comb through old disks 21:53:36 <frosch123> well, that one was from 1989 21:53:46 <frosch123> those two are the oldest ones i know 21:54:21 <peter1138> gotta love those borland fonts 21:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it had a guy with a long nose on the title screen 21:55:46 <peter1138> http://www.abandonwaredos.com/abandonware-screenshot.php?gid=MTIwOA==&idi=YWJhbl9pbWdfY292ZXIvbmlnaHRtaXNzaW9ucGluYmFsbC1zcGxhc2guanBn&tit=Night+Mission+Pinball 21:56:19 <peter1138> oh that url :( 21:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe i'm totally mixing up memories there 21:57:39 <frosch123> egavga.bgi is only about 5kb :p 21:58:17 <frosch123> goth.chr is 8.5kb 21:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> first time someone showed me a program displaying gothic font, it blew my mind 21:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it was actually really simple, i think it showed "hello world" in 3 sizes (erasing the previous one before displaying the next) 21:59:55 <frosch123> likely same here, but i mostly remember the laserjet 4 which could print with dom casual 22:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what that is 22:00:21 <frosch123> hmm, laserjet 4 is too new, maybe laserjet 2 22:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> wingdings was fun to play with for about 10 minutes 22:00:27 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: comic sans, but oldschool 22:00:56 <frosch123> those were postscript fonts built into the printer 22:01:02 <frosch123> you could actually not display them on screen 22:01:28 <frosch123> dos word 5 supported them, textmode on screen, fancy bold hand writing when printing 22:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i recently read an article that talked about how comic sans was a perfectly acceptable font, and when it became "the most evil thing ever invented" it was already on decline 22:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well, dos wordperfect had a mode where you could display a graphical version of the page, showing the layout and fonts and stuff 22:02:24 <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_Casual <- well, it's the grand father of comic sans or so 22:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> but you couldn't edit in that mode, that WYSIWYG stuff was a buzzword for windows 22:03:38 <frosch123> i think dos word also had a graphical preview, but it did not know the printer fonts :p 22:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, in wordperfect, you could select a printer driver, and then it would change the selection of fonts available 22:04:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if it knew all the fonts of all the printers ever invented 22:10:57 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:39 <Wolf01> 'night 22:13:47 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:14:33 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> 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