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00:13:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C2FF.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39:23 *** Nathan1852_ [~Nathan185@p5DC11EDB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:42:43 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:46:44 *** Nathan1852 [~Nathan185@p5B216DA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:47:55 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 00:59:48 *** Nathan1852_ [~Nathan185@p5DC11EDB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:23:09 *** JezK [~jez@nat-gw1.syd4.anchor.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:08:45 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:26:19 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 04:38:15 *** Pikka [~Octomom@124-170-107-114.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66C54.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:07:52 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 05:07:59 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:11:48 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 05:11:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 05:22:38 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 05:31:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 05:32:22 <andythenorth> o/ 05:32:50 <andythenorth> also bye 05:32:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 05:33:56 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 05:55:31 <Alberth> hi bye too, andy 05:57:36 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 07:00:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:13:41 <Alberth> wb 07:28:57 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-170-143.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 07:42:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:46:27 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:47 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has joined #openttd 07:58:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:26:37 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:39:26 <planetmaker> hi hi 08:39:54 <planetmaker> someone should tell Zuu that DevZone can host git repos just fine ;) 08:41:27 <planetmaker> just that building NewGRF projects from git repos is not supported - but only due to lack of support from the build script which someone[TM] could also fix in the form of providing patches 08:46:05 <Alberth> send a PM ? 08:46:44 <planetmaker> :) or wait till I meet him here 08:46:48 <Alberth> at least he replied to the forum, although I haven't seen him here today 08:47:23 <Alberth> I am sure he'll turn up somewhen :) 08:47:24 <planetmaker> as said in the other channel: I really like the idea of one (or maybe two, one git on hg) repo to build test builds from for us 08:47:45 <planetmaker> and on DevZone it's easy for us to configure it to whatever needs we might have :) 08:47:46 <Alberth> yeah, we don't need it often, but it's nice to have 08:48:11 <Alberth> I should really play a game with his patch 08:48:22 <planetmaker> gs2newgrf talk one, yes? 08:48:37 <planetmaker> it's intriguing me, too :) 08:50:10 <Alberth> hmm, moving both git and hg at the same time is confusing :) 08:50:14 <Alberth> *using 08:50:33 <planetmaker> yes :) 08:50:50 <planetmaker> what's git's equivalent for hg manifest? 08:51:43 <Alberth> oh, nice command :) 08:51:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:52:00 <Alberth> (yeah, I didn't know it :) ) 08:52:07 <planetmaker> seems git ls-files or so 08:52:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:52:38 <blathijs> planetmaker: ls-files lists files in the index / working copy only I think 08:52:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 08:53:15 <planetmaker> blathijs, so I can't specify a revision? That default it only lists working copy is totally fine 08:53:24 <planetmaker> and that's what hg manifest does, too 08:53:37 <Alberth> http://superuser.com/questions/429693/git-list-all-files-currently-under-source-control ls-tree, by the looks of it 08:53:39 <blathijs> planetmaker: Yeah, you can't specify a revision AFAICS 08:53:50 <planetmaker> yup, that's where I found it, Alberth ;) 08:53:58 <planetmaker> http://superuser.com/questions/338700/how-to-list-every-file-for-every-revision-in-git-like-mercurials-hg-manifest 08:54:25 <planetmaker> hm, yours is different :) 08:54:47 <Alberth> many websites have more than one page :p 08:55:07 <planetmaker> :) 08:55:19 <planetmaker> now that you tell me... a whole new world opens :) 08:55:28 <Alberth> yw :) 09:23:31 *** JezK [~jez@nat-gw1.syd4.anchor.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:52 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 09:40:30 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:32 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:54:50 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:00 <argoneus> TRAAAAAAAAINS 10:06:51 <Alberth> it is? 10:15:11 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 10:17:56 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:58 <argoneus> is 15 the hardcoded amount of max companies? 10:22:02 <planetmaker> yes. But it's a limit in many parts. Thus changing the constant will not do the trick. It needs many deep code changes 10:22:27 <planetmaker> that includes NewGRF specs, command handling etc 10:23:26 <argoneus> I see 10:23:46 <argoneus> um, forgive my ignorance 10:23:59 <argoneus> but what does the number of companies have to do with specs? 10:24:06 <argoneus> is it that the number is a 4 bit number or something? 10:24:13 <Alberth> it is 10:24:31 <Alberth> 0000 to 1111 10:25:23 <Alberth> so some fields are 4 bit for the company number 10:25:49 <Alberth> more companies means you have to move data, or find room elsewhere, which may not always exist 10:27:37 <argoneus> this game really is on a tight budget huh 10:27:43 <argoneus> as in 10:27:57 <argoneus> you don't want to raise many requirements 10:30:14 <Alberth> it's not simple adding stuff 10:30:47 <Alberth> you have to find all occurrences, see how you can handle the additional data 10:31:09 <Alberth> and that increase works through everywhere 10:31:20 <Alberth> maps get bigger save files get bigger 10:32:14 <Alberth> if you add a byte to each tile, at 4k x 4k, that 16MB 10:33:42 <Alberth> we may need a different map layout to fix, but that means you need a new data structure that is still bloody fast to access 10:34:42 <Alberth> it's not that we don't want it, but such undertakings take loads and loads of time 10:35:12 <Alberth> so you need someone dedicated to the problem enough to do it 10:36:13 <Alberth> and you may find there is no good solution 10:37:26 <Alberth> suggesting it takes 5 minutes, implementing something like this is soon a few years, as nobody works full-time on the project 10:38:12 <Alberth> assuming you don't mind having desync and crash issues lying around for a few years 10:39:44 <Alberth> and all that for a handful of MP players 10:41:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:42:30 * andythenorth wonders how to patch build script for git :P 10:42:39 <andythenorth> maybe not right now, but in 2 weeks, after holidays 10:53:48 <Alberth> what's there to patch? 11:05:37 *** Nathan1852_ [~Nathan185@p5DC11BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:22:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host20-73-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:22:35 <Wolf01> hi hi 11:26:55 <Alberth> o/ 11:30:37 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:11 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:49:39 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:49:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:56:24 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:58:06 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:15:58 <planetmaker> Alberth, basically it needs patching (or at least checking) the build scripts by the devzone and the (standard) Makefile for NewGRFs: 12:16:17 <planetmaker> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/misc/files/tip/compiler/jenkins_build.sh 12:16:27 <planetmaker> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/misc/files/tip/compiler/jenkins_postbuild.sh 12:17:09 <planetmaker> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/make-nml/files/tip/Makefile 12:17:18 <planetmaker> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/make-nml/files/tip/Makefile.config 12:17:28 <planetmaker> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/make-nml/files/tip/findversion.sh 12:17:54 <planetmaker> that should be it, I think. Most of the work is actually already done. Mostly it's untested, though 12:20:48 <planetmaker> also @ andythenorth ^ 12:21:49 <planetmaker> I structured it basically in a similar way to openttd's configure script which checks for the VCS and gets the needed information accordingly. But leaves the rest untouched 12:25:06 <Alberth> ah right 12:25:50 <Alberth> a little more generic than I expected :) 12:27:29 <planetmaker> the first two are fairly generic, yes; but it's simple stuff 12:27:46 <planetmaker> and the latter three are taylored towards newgrfs, of course and it's basically the same thing again :) 12:28:04 <argoneus> uh 12:28:15 <argoneus> has anyone here had successful passenger only games? 12:28:38 <planetmaker> does mail count as passenger? :D 12:28:43 <argoneus> I guess 12:28:50 <argoneus> I'm not sure how I want to connect the cities 12:28:57 <argoneus> like if I want one line that goes through all of them in a loop 12:29:03 <argoneus> or just between pairs 12:29:42 <Alberth> try both? :) 12:29:59 <Alberth> with cdist, a big loop is going to be a mess 12:30:10 <argoneus> yeah I use assymetric cdist 12:30:17 <argoneus> I thought like having a train+bus in each city 12:30:21 <argoneus> then a bunch of buses in the cities 12:31:04 <argoneus> thats what im gonna do I guess 12:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> with cdist you want a mesh, not a loop 12:32:05 <argoneus> mesh? 12:32:10 <Alberth> the problem is that pax want to travel to neighbouring towns 12:32:30 <Alberth> to ALL neighbouring towns 12:32:30 <argoneus> ill just do it like real life 12:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: as many direct connections as possible 12:32:37 <argoneus> have a bus network in every city 12:32:43 <argoneus> and pair cities together with trains 12:32:51 <argoneus> that works, right 12:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: straight lines with many cities may help reduce loading/unloading times 12:33:43 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:34:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have A<->B and B<->C, people going A<->C have to unload and load again at B, if instead you have A<->B<->C, they can stay in the train 12:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that is especially helpful with train sets that have long distance trains with low loading speed 12:35:14 <argoneus> hmm, im using NUTS 12:57:26 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:01:19 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:05:18 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 13:21:53 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: but doesn't that mean I have one big loop? 13:22:03 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: no 13:22:06 <argoneus> or by stay in the train you mean stay in the station 13:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: you have a network of straight lines 13:23:08 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: so train from city A goes to city B, unloads passengers and goes back 13:23:18 <argoneus> another train comes from city C to city B to the same station, and loads the people? 13:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: you only combine A<->B and B<->C if there is no shorter direct route A<->C 13:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: this is the ideal network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaunay_triangulation 13:26:01 <argoneus> oh like that 13:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause> (except that the map is not euclidean, so this "ideal" method doesn't quite work) 13:34:33 <argoneus> note to self 13:34:37 <argoneus> don't make PAX in 1930 13:34:41 <argoneus> the cities are too small to make profit 13:36:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that is totally the opposite of my experience... 13:36:51 <SpComb> you gotta build those railway stations and claim your right-of-ways near the center of the towns before they grow too big :) 13:36:56 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> go through the largest cities, find two that are close (there pretty much always are), build a tram in each of them, and connect them by train 13:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to be too close to the town center with cdist 13:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure the tram line between station and town center has excess capacity 13:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> because usage will skyrocket 13:38:40 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 13:41:09 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:08:30 <argoneus> huh 14:08:35 <argoneus> cargodist broke for one of my friends 14:08:50 <argoneus> it says 2200 crates of goods to reykjavik valley 14:09:03 <argoneus> he has a train refitted for goods to load them and unload at reykjavik valley, but it's stuck loading 14:09:13 <argoneus> it doesn't want to load the goods 14:10:52 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1576 14:10:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.94.163.77] has joined #openttd 14:11:02 <Alberth> cdist needs a little time to adapt to new routes 14:12:03 *** supermop [~supermop@cpe-67-244-121-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: try sending the train empty one roundtrip 14:12:24 <argoneus> yup he fixed it 14:12:34 <argoneus> he sent it to depot and back 14:12:37 <argoneus> and now it loads 14:12:37 <argoneus> odd 14:12:47 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:12:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes cdist has weird effects when things take too long 14:14:40 *** Guest1576 [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.94.163.77] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:21 <Terkhen> hello 14:22:14 <Alberth> moin 14:33:42 *** supermop [~supermop@cpe-67-244-121-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:03 *** supermop [~supermop@cpe-67-244-121-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:36:07 <argoneus> hm 14:36:23 <argoneus> is there a proper use for entry/exit signals? I figured that most of my use cases can be replaced by a single path signal 14:36:44 <argoneus> specifically in station design 14:36:50 <argoneus> I know there is but I don't remember 14:39:28 <planetmaker> there mostly is no use for bock signals when you use path signals 14:39:45 <planetmaker> for none of the block signals, including entry-, combo- and exit-signals 14:40:16 <argoneus> so block signals are only good for the tricks like throttling traffic? 14:41:46 <Alberth> the only time I went back to block signals is when I found that path signals wait for moving trains 14:41:47 <planetmaker> dunno what you mean with 'throtteling traffic'. But yes, you can use them for funky effects like building a calculator with them 14:42:16 <argoneus> Alberth: wait for moving trains? 14:42:25 <Alberth> which at high rates of incoming traffic is quite nasty :p 14:42:56 <Alberth> when a train is leaving, it waits 14:43:07 <Alberth> instead of picking another platform or so 14:43:08 <argoneus> I thought trains reserve a path before they leave 14:43:23 <Alberth> they do 14:43:39 <Alberth> I mean the next train waits for the train already there 14:43:55 <argoneus> doesn't it pick a free platform? 14:44:01 <argoneus> I thought that was the selling point 14:44:07 <Alberth> normally not a problem, except when you really cannot afford to block the entry at all 14:44:26 <Alberth> it does, but after a very short while 14:44:57 <Alberth> like I said, it's only important when you're dealing with very high rates of traffic 14:45:08 <argoneus> so um 14:45:57 <argoneus> is something like this bad? http://puu.sh/jeMIs/21a62a14f2.png 14:45:57 <Alberth> really don't worry about it 14:46:43 <Alberth> should be fine, except I'd remove the block signals directly after the junction 14:47:04 <Alberth> you want sufficient space after the junction for a train to stop 14:47:12 <argoneus> oh right 14:47:15 <argoneus> it could stop at the crossroad 14:47:18 <argoneus> and that's bad 14:47:19 <argoneus> junction* 14:47:41 <Alberth> for performance it doesn't matter, as path signals don't care about multiple trains in the block 14:48:38 <argoneus> but idk 14:48:46 <argoneus> is it bad I'm sad path signals were added? :D 14:48:54 <argoneus> block signals just take so much more thought and they look cool 14:48:55 <Alberth> why? 14:48:55 <argoneus> :( 14:49:02 <argoneus> but they're inferior 14:49:11 <Alberth> nobody forces you to use path signals 14:49:19 <argoneus> well I want to have optimized everything 14:49:42 <Alberth> premature optimization is the root of much evil :p 14:50:09 <Alberth> you're likely to waste loads of time at non-relevant parts 14:50:19 <argoneus> that's the fun part though 14:51:14 <Alberth> hmm, if you make the split after the first path signal longer, you could add a signal just before the junction 14:51:51 <Alberth> and I'd remove the connection between the 2nd and 3rd platform 14:52:21 <Alberth> let me find an example 14:52:21 <argoneus> hmm 14:57:37 <Alberth> https://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/in_out2.png 14:57:54 <Alberth> https://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/in_out.png with less clutter 14:58:33 <Alberth> each platform has a an entry and exit shared with another platform 14:59:40 <argoneus> hmm 14:59:43 <argoneus> that looks cool 15:01:28 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/crosses.png this is a bit closer to what you are doing, a cross before each pair of platforms 15:02:31 <Alberth> obviously, the 2nd train of a pair cannot move while the 1st is moving and vice-versa 15:02:46 <Alberth> if your loading times are long enough, that's not a problem 15:06:02 *** Nathan1852__ [~Nathan185@p5B21679C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:06:09 <argoneus> thanks :3 15:08:10 *** Nathan1852__ [~Nathan185@p5B21679C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:17 *** Nathan1852 [~Nathan185@p5B21679C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:08:19 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/messy_inout.png don't be too sure, it may get messy :p 15:08:50 <Alberth> partly also because of other tracks nearby, and industries and other stations that are in the way :p 15:09:19 <argoneus> ._. 15:09:47 *** Pikka [~Octomom@124-170-107-114.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:15 *** Nathan1852_ [~Nathan185@p5DC11BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:01 *** Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] 15:25:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6DB7B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:26:10 *** Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd 15:34:08 *** supermop [~supermop@cpe-67-244-121-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:50:36 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:52:15 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:58:15 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:48:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d01b017.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:12:48 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B47E4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:17:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:52:13 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 17:52:28 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:55:10 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-83-204.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 17:55:20 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@mue-88-130-83-204.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 17:55:25 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@mue-88-130-83-204.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:58 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-170-143.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 18:26:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:47 *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:37:03 <DanMacK> Hey all 18:37:09 <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth 18:37:09 <DorpsGek> DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 54 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <andythenorth> maybe not right now, but in 2 weeks, after holidays 18:39:27 *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 18:39:39 <argoneus> is there a quick way to show current amount of players on a website? 18:39:48 <argoneus> without implementing the whole admin port thing 18:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone find it amazing that dan comes here, does his usual thing, and gets the reply "i'm back in 2 weeks"? :p 18:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: sure, just use the interface the game uses to get server info 18:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> which is one single UDP package 18:44:58 <argoneus> oki, thanks 18:45:09 <argoneus> one more thing 18:45:25 <argoneus> do you think it's a bad idea to poll for this every time someone loads the website? like maybe have it on a cron and store it in redis or whatver? 18:45:35 <argoneus> I'm not an experienced webdev (._.) 18:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> UDP packages are very lightweight 18:46:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the game sends hundreds of them out every time you open the server page 18:46:30 <argoneus> yeah but if I put it on a website 18:46:38 <argoneus> then people could use that to ddos the server kinda 18:46:39 <argoneus> no? 18:46:54 <argoneus> then again 18:47:00 <argoneus> they might as well start the game, find it in the server list and ddos that 18:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you'll have quite a hard time DDOS-ing anything through UDP 18:47:58 <argoneus> you can still flood the line 18:48:07 <argoneus> and make requests take longer 18:48:12 <argoneus> or throw them away 18:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> UDP packages are thrown away all the time 18:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why the game sends out like 3 equvalent ones in the hope at least one gets through 18:49:24 <argoneus> hmm 18:49:33 <argoneus> is there any doc for this basic server info pack(et|age?) 18:49:40 <argoneus> or do I need to dig in source 18:49:58 <argoneus> I can't seem to find it on the wiki 18:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure there is an explanation for this somewhere 18:50:37 <argoneus> on wiki or in doxygen? 18:50:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd try doxygen 18:52:25 <Alberth> sure that'd be more efficient than just doing the admin port thingie? 18:53:21 <argoneus> Alberth: isn't it a bad idea to query the admin port every time someone loads the website? 18:53:58 <argoneus> then again I always worry about how to make things properly and in the end I don't even have a working prototype because I get bored 18:54:02 <argoneus> argh 18:57:14 <frosch123> argoneus: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttdlib <- i think you are looking for that 19:02:44 <Alberth> argoneus: I am just very amazed about "admin port is too much work, let's do custom source code checking and hacking to get an inferior partial solution instead" 19:03:24 <argoneus> well, but 19:03:27 <argoneus> well, you're right 19:03:27 <argoneus> ._. 19:03:36 <Alberth> argoneus: given that there exist servers today that use the admin port, I'd say it can't be that bad :) 19:03:45 <argoneus> but do I want to cache the information 19:03:50 <argoneus> or query for it evertime someone loads the website 19:03:54 <argoneus> I'm not sure how heavy it is 19:04:12 <argoneus> it won't matter in my case but exercise is exercise 19:04:21 <Alberth> I said something about premature optimization already didn't I? :) 19:04:32 <argoneus> yeah but 19:04:48 <Alberth> no way to know in advance, just try it, and optimize when needed 19:04:54 <Alberth> imho 19:05:08 *** shadowalker [~dark@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::102:d001] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 19:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> how many million views per minute do you think your website gets? 19:06:06 <Rubidium> O(nano)? 19:06:30 <argoneus> like 0.000005 million 19:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that is about the order of magnitude i think that "performance" should even enter the consideration 19:06:49 <argoneus> it's just that 19:06:58 <argoneus> you hear these nightmare stories 19:07:03 <argoneus> how people made some random shit project, and it blew up 19:07:08 <argoneus> and then they couldn't handle the traffic and it fucked up 19:07:34 <argoneus> then again if you get a facebook esque that blows up I assume fixing your infrastructure is the least of your problems with all the money you have 19:07:35 <Rubidium> it's not like the OpenTTD website is optimised, but it survived slashdot fairly easily 19:07:36 <__ln__> http://www.n-tv.de/ticker/Fremdes-U-Boot-vor-der-schwedischen-Kueste-gefunden-article15603086.html 19:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. but for every such project that blew up, a million projects didn't blow up. 19:07:42 <frosch123> just redirect people to pikkas fundraiser, if the load is too big 19:07:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just how it works... 19:07:58 <argoneus> so basically 19:08:03 <argoneus> for random projects, functionality > scalability? 19:08:24 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: didn't we go through this last year already? 19:08:26 <argoneus> I just keep underestimating today's computers 19:09:19 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: there was no physical evidence of a submarine back then; now they've found one. 19:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i'm sure it's totally unrelated 19:10:12 <Rubidium> argoneus: good practice is to write simple to understand code and optimize the hot spots. Arguably you can get more performance gain from tuning the web server / php / python than querying the server 19:10:37 <Rubidium> if you're that concerned about performance for a connecting client, then just generate static HTML every X seconds 19:10:59 <glx> and your wrapper around admin port can do all the necessary caching 19:11:06 <Alberth> argoneus: scalability is a non-issue until you actually have functionality 19:11:59 <glx> (if caching is really needed) 19:12:14 <argoneus> I don't even know how to cache :< 19:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: the point is, you don't have to know. just prepare your code to have a cache added later, when the need arises 19:13:28 <argoneus> yeah I don't even know how to do that, I don't do webdev 19:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: there are definitely standard solutions for caching 19:15:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6DB7B.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:28:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:44:12 <NGC3982> So 19:44:20 <NGC3982> I started this EVE thing 19:44:35 <NGC3982> And i haven't used the rest of the internet for the last year. 19:44:45 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:49:55 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:55 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:57:18 <Supercheese> that is precisely why I checked out EVE and said, "Nope." 19:57:27 <Supercheese> would be far too consuming 20:25:38 *** jottyfan [~jottyfan@p54B47E4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:29:52 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:35:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d01b017.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:36:35 <Terkhen> good night 21:05:00 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:54 *** gelignite [~gelignite@mue-88-130-83-204.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:39:56 <Wolf01> A train cannot turn it's direction on the rail by itself or magic game mechanic. This is different to games like OpenTTD! 21:39:59 <Wolf01> f**k 21:40:01 <Wolf01> :D 21:40:04 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:40:41 <Wolf01> need to build a double headed train 21:49:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19D30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:23 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 22:13:11 <peter1138> what game? 22:16:26 <Wolf01> factorio 22:16:49 <Wolf01> http://www.factorioforums.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vehicle/Train/Reverse_driving 22:20:41 <Wolf01> the manual driving, shunting and rolling stock connection is wonderful *_* 22:21:17 <Wolf01> too bad I have other things to do, like killing those zerg 22:39:58 <Nemoder> the factorio trains are pretty cool except by the time you've built enough stations for them to be useful you already have all the resources you need to finish the game 22:48:23 *** Nathan1852_ [~Nathan185@p5B21679C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:55:25 *** Nathan1852 [~Nathan185@p5B21679C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:56 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08e4ed.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 23:09:59 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@130.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 23:15:49 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@130.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 39.0/20150630154324]] 23:24:14 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 23:24:54 <Wolf01> 'night 23:24:58 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:26:28 *** Nathan1852_ [~Nathan185@p5B21679C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:38 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08e4ed.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]