Log for #openttd on 30th July 2015:
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06:39:02  <Wolf01> hi hi
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10:06:11  <Ellon> hi°
10:06:37  <Ellon> Im trying to start arctic map in game but it shows me error that it couldnt generate woods
10:08:24  <Wolf01> too low, you might need more higher mountains, arctic woods need to be placed above the snow line
10:09:38  <Ellon> Are you planning to make 3d openttd?
10:10:22  <Wolf01> I really doubt that
10:11:12  <Ellon> Is it because it takes a lot of time to make 3rd graphics?
10:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but the whole internal structure must be changed
10:11:59  <Ellon> ah ok
10:12:32  <Wolf01> most of the newgrf graphics come from 3D models, so I think the graphics are the last of the problem :P
10:13:13  <Ellon> What's the problem?
10:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the first problem is you need to ditch all the community effort [NewGRFs] of the last ~10 years
10:17:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and once you do that, there are a whole lot of limitations now gone that held back certain developments, which you should adress at this very moment, or they'll creep back in
10:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and then a year has passed, without a possibility to release an updated version in the old style, but also without any development of a 3D world
10:20:49  <Eddi|zuHause> meaning that step was probably the death of this project
10:26:16  <Wolf01> but at least we could consider the map rotation (90° steps) :P
10:27:58  <Wolf01> and sprites aren't a problem, in gnomoria they do everything with 1 sprite
10:30:53  <planetmaker> Wolf01, I doubt that most graphics come from a 3D model.
10:31:07  <planetmaker> at least not yet
10:31:38  <planetmaker> and the big problem with rotations is that you need it for all houses and industries (airports exist already, sort of for OpenGFX)
10:32:02  <planetmaker> and I'm not aware of 3D models for those except some as found in zbase.
10:32:30  <Wolf01> you can mirror the graphics
10:32:58  <Wolf01> ok, for airports you need to rotate the state machine
10:33:09  <planetmaker> Wolf01, no, you cannot mirror the graphics
10:33:28  <planetmaker> try that with an irregular one like the refiney or the coal mine
10:33:36  <planetmaker> *rectangular
10:33:49  <planetmaker> the sprites will not fit a 90° rotation
10:34:03  <planetmaker> I thought so, too once. But actually look at them and try :)
10:34:09  <planetmaker> it's a (common?) fallacy
10:34:26  <Wolf01> uhm, yes, didn't thought about those
10:37:06  <Ellon> ok
10:37:48  <Ellon> hae you thought about adding more stuff to game?
10:38:11  <planetmaker> we always do. And do just that. There's a plethora of newGRF, game scripts and AI
10:40:32  <planetmaker> Wolf01, what it needs for 3D rotation is really 3 new sprites for each house and industry sprite. That actually is not that much as it sounds, but still more than just a few dozen :)
10:41:05  <planetmaker> all other game content hardly needs new sprites for rotation: neither road nor track nor terrain nor trees nor vehicles - they all have that already
10:41:31  <planetmaker> and for airports we do have that with OpenGFX+Airports as some nice people actually drew those sprites already
10:41:53  <planetmaker> (and making that NewGRF basically taught me just that: it's not as simple as mirroring. Sadly)
10:42:18  <Wolf01> the problem is that you must drop the support for the original base sets, or disable the rotation if one uses only original base sets without a proper addition
10:42:37  <Wolf01> and that proper addition couldn't be made because copyright and stuff
10:42:38  <planetmaker> one could skip all 1x1 houses, but it looks nicer with new sprites, too
10:42:59  <planetmaker> yes... so let's hope for pikka's new one :)
10:44:01  <Wolf01> yeah
10:44:28  <planetmaker> however an if-clause which queries the base set capabilities would be thinkable, too. Wouldn't be too bad, I think
10:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a terrible idea
10:45:37  <Eddi|zuHause> also, NewGRFs would block this rotation again
10:47:52  <planetmaker> Wolf01, actually come think of it, it would be possible as it doesn't add new content / game concept
10:48:19  <planetmaker> And NewGRFs which provide houses, objects or industries would need a flag indicating their support for rotations
10:48:26  <planetmaker> which would disable rotation if not set
10:48:33  <planetmaker> yes. Not a bad idea at all, actually
10:49:03  <planetmaker> or airports would block it, too. And maybe actionA, simple sprite replacement. Not sure
10:50:01  <planetmaker> as such, I think this actually *is* a viable path which can be gone. And it's nicely backward compatible
10:50:19  <Eddi|zuHause> for certain definitions of "nicely"
10:53:52  <Ellon> does openttd use new sprites?
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10:54:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what is a "new sprite" for you?
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10:57:43  <planetmaker> OpenTTD uses sprites and doesn't care about their age ;)
10:58:00  <planetmaker> as long as they're in the proper format
10:58:59  <Ellon> How about putting this game on steam?
10:59:25  <Wolf01> copyright and stuff
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11:04:15  <Ellon> ok
11:04:57  <Wolf01> I want this, maybe just a bit more reactive
11:07:24  <Wolf01> I think I'll restart my work about the new more usable fantastic scenario editor tools
11:07:33  <Eddi|zuHause> back in my days we called that sand pit :p
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11:52:57  <dihedral> oi
11:53:38  <Taede> ello
11:54:04  <Wolf01> o/
11:55:03  <dihedral> Wolf01: multi-touch for the map editor and building tools? :-P
11:55:40  <Wolf01> multi-touch would be cool too, as I play on my laptop
11:57:02  <dihedral> and support for touch intensity :-P
11:57:18  <dihedral> so that the beautiful graphite schreens from wacom also are supported
11:58:27  <Wolf01> we need first a touch support, the game is playable but has a lot of features which work with CTRL
11:58:56  <dihedral> [ ] <- touch to activate ctrl
11:59:04  <dihedral> touch to activate shift -> [ ]
11:59:15  <dihedral> [ ] <- touch to f... off
11:59:25  <dihedral> touch to report a bug -> [ ]
11:59:46  <dihedral> touch peter1138
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12:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> never run a touching system
12:55:08  <planetmaker> nor a touchy system
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13:34:46  <peter1138> Yeah, touch would be nice.
13:34:51  <peter1138> No idea how to implement it though.
13:35:01  <peter1138> I'm guessing SDL is a no-no.
13:35:14  <planetmaker> SDL2 maybe? No clue about that, though
13:39:09  <peter1138> Mind you my tablet is Windows so I'd have to delve into that.
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14:52:05  <dihedral> yay, peter1138 volunteered :-P
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15:18:15  <argoneus> the tile indexing in this game
15:19:16  <argoneus> (x,y), x is going towards top right?
15:19:31  <argoneus> and y towards bottom right
15:22:17  <argoneus> also, is there a reason squirrel is used and not lua?
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15:26:57  <planetmaker> no
15:27:16  <planetmaker> and yes and yes
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15:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> x goes to the bottom left
15:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> y goes to the bottom right
15:50:30  <Eddi|zuHause> (0,0) is the topmost tile (usually invisible)
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16:18:31  <Terkhen> hello
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16:59:07  <Taede> @seen frosch123
16:59:07  <DorpsGek> Taede: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 1 minute, and 32 seconds ago: <frosch123> it has locked 30fps, so why not?
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17:45:19  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27347 trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt (2015-07-30 19:45:14 +0200 )
17:45:20  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> slovenian - 15 changes by matej1245
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18:45:36  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27348 /branches/1.5 (6 files in 3 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:45:29 +0200 )
18:45:37  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
18:45:38  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Password window layout with GUI zoom [FS#6321] (r27304, r27303)
18:45:39  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Speed-only timetables got assigned times in stations [FS#6313] (r27302, r27301)
18:45:40  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Enforce the company's default service intervals when purchasing another company [FS#6254] (r27282, r27281)
18:45:41  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
18:48:31  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27349 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:48:25 +0200 )
18:48:32  <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
18:48:33  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Prevent breaking of tram-reversal points by adding more road pieces [FS#6283] (r27308)
18:48:34  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Error message window with manager face failed with GUI zoom [FS#6259] (r27307)
18:48:35  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Account for road-bridges and drive-through-stops in CanFollowRoad [FS#6320] (r27306, r27305)
18:50:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27350 /branches/1.5 (5 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:50:39 +0200 )
18:50:46  <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
18:50:47  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Incorrect owner assignment when adding/removing road/tram to/from bridges [FS#6317] (r27313, r27312)
18:50:48  <DorpsGek> - Fix: Mark infrastructure window dirty in more cases (r27311)
18:50:49  <DorpsGek> - Change: Auto-complete partial roads when building level-crossings [FS#6283] (r27309)
18:53:38  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27351 /branches/1.5 (4 files in 2 dirs) (2015-07-30 20:53:31 +0200 )
18:53:39  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: [1.5] -Backport from trunk:
18:53:40  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Do not rerandomise the town name when only cost-estimating the founding [FS#6332] (r27341)
18:53:41  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Make variety distribution not assume that sea level is at height 0.2 / 3 * TGPGetMaxHeight() [FS#6335] (r27331, r27330, r27329, r27328)
18:53:42  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: - Fix: Remove corner-case optimisation for line drawing, which failed for dashed lines  (r27324)
18:53:43  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...)
18:55:35  <Taede> frosch123, infinite loop fs updated with 'bt full' and also a way to reproduce (seems to work on ps at least)
18:55:51  <frosch123> saw it :)
18:56:16  <Taede> :)
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19:37:31  <Terkhen> good night
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19:39:51  <Wolf01> yay updated to windows 10!.... no.. just regular updates :|
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20:41:39  <Matthias_> hi there
20:42:09  <a_sad_dude> hi )
20:42:25  <Matthias_> Im also known as Audiopulse or Mace :)
20:43:08  <a_sad_dude> i'm sometimes Virtulis
20:43:25  <a_sad_dude> so, shall we discuss what we wanted in private or in public?
20:43:50  <Matthias_> its your project, so id leave it to you :)
20:45:51  <Matthias_> It doesnt really look like were disturbing anyone here, so Id be fine with just staying here
20:46:10  <a_sad_dude> you wanted me to add Industrial Stations Renewal, was there anything else?
20:46:32  <Matthias_> Theres a GRF called something like bridge-renewal...
20:46:43  <Matthias_> Let me look its exact name up
20:48:05  <a_sad_dude> Total Bridge Renewal Set?
20:48:16  <Matthias_>
20:48:22  <Matthias_> hah, yes, youre right :)
20:49:37  <a_sad_dude> we also need a different trainset I think but one that works with ECS
20:49:44  <Matthias_> Whatever the game - I like mods, but I also like playing in Multiplayer ... so I often go for fewer mod(packs) with the biggest effect... :)
20:49:57  <Matthias_> What is the one called youre using now?
20:50:03  <a_sad_dude> 2cc
20:50:27  <Matthias_> Hmm. Thats the one Ive been using in the past...
20:50:51  <Matthias_> I might have to double-check - but so far ive only seen that swiss train being out of balance
20:51:03  <Matthias_> everything else seems fine, train-wise
20:51:42  <a_sad_dude> well it's on default settings and i'm not sure it even has any
20:52:12  <a_sad_dude> ah, it's "2cc in NML". maybe i should have used the default one
20:52:28  <Matthias_> Okay? whats the difference?
20:53:29  <a_sad_dude> no idea, this one is newer, so probably has more bugs
20:53:43  <Matthias_> hehe, that could be :)
20:54:01  <Matthias_> Is it possible to disable single trains in 2cc?
20:56:37  <a_sad_dude> i don't think it is
20:56:46  <Matthias_> If so, then that might be all it takes as I saw some people "abusing" said swiss train...
20:57:26  <Matthias_> Another solution might be switching to a smaller train-pack, as the gameplay with your mod is rather RV-dependant anyways
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20:57:48  <Matthias_> So you probably dont need that many different trains anyways.
20:58:00  <a_sad_dude> currently trying to choose one from here
20:58:37  <a_sad_dude> also needs to be in BaNaNaS
20:59:49  <Matthias_> hmm...
21:01:22  <Matthias_> I had an eye on the UK-renewal-set
21:01:38  <Matthias_> it looked nice ... i dont know any of these sets closer
21:02:18  <Matthias_> Thing is, I know I would miss the wagons from the 2cc-set
21:02:46  <Matthias_> They work well as it gives you an option to choose older, cheaper variants.
21:02:57  <Matthias_> as far as i am aware, no other set does this.
21:03:01  <Matthias_> yet
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21:06:22  <a_sad_dude> well i'm currently checking out NARS and it seems to have different wagons too
21:07:38  <a_sad_dude> I think I'll go with that for the next game and see how it works out
21:09:22  <Matthias_> I was going to suggest that. It sure gives a wide choice of Railvehicles to choose from
21:09:34  <Matthias_> and the look well drawn :)
21:10:50  <Matthias_> hehe
21:10:59  <Matthias_> Me and my Sis were on it
21:11:25  <Matthias_> -> SisBro ;)
21:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone seen my mouse?
21:11:48  <a_sad_dude> Eddi|zuHause, how did it look?
21:12:05  <a_sad_dude> Matthias_, so why haven't you won yet
21:12:21  <Matthias_> Hehehe
21:12:32  <Matthias_> I tried to give everyone else a chance :D
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21:23:16  <Matthias_> Im actually getting lag on my Laptop
21:23:55  <a_sad_dude> which continent are you on?
21:24:10  <Matthias_> Continent Germany.
21:24:32  <a_sad_dude> that's weird because the server is in France. should be superfast
21:24:35  <Matthias_> Its probably my Laptop.
21:24:59  <a_sad_dude> probably
21:25:22  <Matthias_> I never had that before with OTTD, but then again - so far ive mostly been using trains...
21:25:32  <Matthias_> instead of these heaps of trucks ;)
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21:28:20  <Matthias_> it always breaks my heart a little, when i see your (leaving)message ingame
21:28:27  <Matthias_> :D
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21:33:03  <a_sad_dude> openttd crashed, that's new
21:33:22  <a_sad_dude> or maybe it didn't
21:33:49  <a_sad_dude> i'm not even sure what happened
21:35:35  <a_sad_dude> so, shall we race to 5k?
21:36:03  <Matthias_> lets try :)
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21:52:48  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:01:51  <Matthias_> 666 Crates of Goods... mmh...
22:02:10  <Matthias_> Could be Bibles
22:04:57  <Eddi|zuHause> basically everything known about this section of the bible points to "666" referring "Nero" and the roman empire as the "big evil"
22:06:52  <Matthias_> Whats interesting to note - I think my Furniture-factory actually doesnt load the goods fast enough on the Trucks...
22:06:55  <Eddi|zuHause> (including the "616" that some early bibles contained in this section, which based the number of a different spelling)
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22:07:40  <Matthias_> Even though theres pretty much at any time between 1 to 10 trucks waiting - i have a percentage of 67 of goods transported
22:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that is normal
22:08:14  <Matthias_> thougt so... its a shame, though.
22:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> 67% is "always something loading", to get higher you need further tricks like high vehicle speed, a statue in the town
22:08:33  <Matthias_> it means id have to spread to other furniture-factories to maximise output.
22:08:51  <Matthias_> but i kinda liked sticking to one chain with sad dudes mod.
22:09:08  <Eddi|zuHause> how does multiple factories help you?
22:09:10  <a_sad_dude> Matthias_, maybe it's not on full power yet
22:09:37  <Matthias_> youre right, sad, its at 50% ... i thougt it was on ultimate already :)
22:10:16  <a_sad_dude> which town is it?
22:10:25  <Matthias_> Bufingpool
22:10:48  <a_sad_dude> Eddi|zuHause, we're talking about ECS where industries have limits
22:10:52  <Matthias_> If you want to get this game won by someone, feel free to join our company
22:11:01  <a_sad_dude> haha
22:11:12  <a_sad_dude> let me go bankrupt first
22:11:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also try an advertising campaign, if the station is close to the town center
22:11:29  <Matthias_> I can recommend Hovercrafts for that cause... :D
22:11:50  <a_sad_dude> 1304 tons of food and 5 trucks to carry it before the next season. oops.
22:11:57  <Eddi|zuHause> but you need to repeat that regularly
22:12:22  <Matthias_> I just realised, i need glass to step up production, eddy, but thanks :)
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22:13:02  <Matthias_> Ill send you the Corp-PW ingame, sad... feel free to use it...
22:14:18  <Matthias_> should i buy your old corp?
22:14:26  <a_sad_dude> oh
22:14:28  <a_sad_dude> can you?
22:14:31  <Matthias_> yes
22:14:49  <a_sad_dude> thought i disabled it, apparently not
22:14:58  <a_sad_dude> please do
22:15:07  <Matthias_> Done
22:15:07  <Eddi|zuHause> if a company is about to go bankrupt, the other companies get an offer to buy it even in multiplayer
22:15:24  <Eddi|zuHause> buying out through the stock market is disabled in multiplayer
22:15:26  <Matthias_> you got the PW, dude?
22:16:07  <a_sad_dude> yep
22:16:14  <Matthias_> good good
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22:25:32  <Matthias_> Kai has been on and off all day...
22:25:48  <Matthias_> He mustve sprinkled the map with, like, 6-8 companies :D
22:25:58  <Matthias_> maybe more :D
22:48:23  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:54:39  <a_sad_dude> oh...
22:55:27  <a_sad_dude> not sure what to do. autoclean cleans everything up regardless of how much work you put into it, so i disabled it
22:59:31  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
23:05:18  <Matthias_> its fine. Theres enough space on the map... Night dude! Night everyone.
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