Log for #openttd on 31st August 2015:
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07:09:05  <planetmaker> moin
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08:37:51  <Wolf01> hi o/
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09:55:59  <Wolf01> o/
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14:57:40  <meslinjf> I'm still having trouble compiling the source from ogfx-rv-0.1.0-source.tar.gz available here: and am receiving messages telling me numerous times: cc.exe: error: cc: No such file or directory even though my MinGW is well installed and that cc.exe is in the bin folder. Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do?
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14:59:21  <planetmaker> meslinjf, that sounds like it is not in the path, though
14:59:41  <meslinjf> I should put the cc.exe directly in the path?
15:00:54  <planetmaker> in your PATH variable
15:01:03  <planetmaker> in your environment settings
15:05:01  <meslinjf> The bin folder where the cc.exe is already in the path variable. The gcc --version command works in my windows cmd.
15:11:29  <meslinjf> I've read that "you need a c compiler to compile OpenGFX+ RV set. There's no C code, but it uses C preprocessor." Is this what makes it impossible for me to compile the source?
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15:38:14  <Alberth> it is in the path last time we discussed this (last Friday?)
15:38:43  <Alberth> but the CC variable constructs an additional "cc"
15:39:26  <planetmaker> meslinjf, you could try to call make by explicitly stating where gcc is found:
15:40:28  <planetmaker> make CC=path/to/gcc
15:41:17  <Alberth>
15:44:53  <meslinjf> I entered F:\openTTD\ogfx-rv>make CC=F:\MinGW\bin and I've received \bin\sh: F:MinGWbin: command not found
15:44:56  <meslinjf> Error 127
15:47:18  <Alberth> try forward slashes, and add the real program:   make CC=F:/MinGW/bin/cc.exe
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15:47:55  <Alberth> (or use double backward slashes, but that's less readable)
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15:49:20  <Alberth> always such fun, new users picking the most complicated platform for compiling :(
15:51:30  <meslinjf> I'm getting better results with the line you gave me.
15:51:46  <Alberth> I'd hoped so :)
15:52:37  <meslinjf> But there seems to be some work needed in the source. there seems to be an error in a .pnml file contained in the source folder.
15:53:33  <Alberth> you are trying to compile unmodified ogfx-rv, or have you made changes already?
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15:53:57  <meslinjf> I've only changed graphic files
15:54:35  <meslinjf> [knmlc ERROR: "src/truck_bulk.pnml", line 124: Unrecognized indentifier 'PROP_ROADVEHS_CARGO_CAPACITY' encountered
15:54:51  <meslinjf> Including from: "<stdin>, line 23
15:54:59  <Alberth> what nml version do you use?
15:55:07  <Alberth> nmlc --version
15:55:32  <meslinjf> 0.4.1
15:56:00  <meslinjf> Compiling gave me a nml file though. So I'm on the right path.
15:56:15  <Alberth> so the cc command worked
15:57:03  <Alberth> hmm, line 124 is empty here
15:58:00  <NGC3982> I want to start hosting ttd servers again
15:58:07  <NGC3982> But nobody's playing.
15:58:20  <NGC3982> Do you guys consider this a single player game, primarly?
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15:58:26  <planetmaker> no
15:59:44  <planetmaker> meslinjf, that does not exist in my source of ogfx-rv
15:59:44  <Alberth> meslinjf:  what version of ogfx-rv do you have?  Mine doesn't even have "CAPAC"
16:00:55  <meslinjf> I'm using the 0.1.0 version since I do not need the additional cargoes and it let's me change graphics more easily.
16:01:15  <planetmaker> meslinjf, that is designed / written for an ancient nml version
16:02:06  <meslinjf> Ah! Then I could get the old version and run it?
16:02:35  <planetmaker> yes, in principle... try the 0.2 branch
16:02:49  <planetmaker> maybe a 0.3.x version will work, too, but I doubt
16:03:19  <planetmaker> meslinjf, on the other hand, the newer versions don't make it more complicated to change graphics...
16:03:58  <planetmaker> just more graphics :)
16:06:45  <meslinjf> Yes, but many of the graphic files are in gimp (which I'm not confortable with) and some do not appear straight away in the latest source. But I'd rather edit a few files and then play! :)
16:07:46  <planetmaker> oh, complicated in that sense. yes, can be. I might be guilty :)
16:12:38  <Alberth> name got removed in r108, 2011-08-19
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16:18:26  <meslinjf> It finally worked! The grf has been created and the new graphics are working properly. Thank you very much guys.
16:19:13  <Alberth> if you change the grf, please also change the grf id
16:19:19  <Alberth> to avoid confusion
16:21:04  <Alberth> and preferably also the other names, etc
16:21:39  <Alberth> it's such a mess if someone reports a bug against the wrong newgrf
16:22:53  <meslinjf> Will do. It's for my own use since I'm using original graphics, but it's best to do it anyway.
16:23:10  <Alberth> ok, thank you
16:30:12  <frosch123> hola di hoi
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16:39:43  <planetmaker> hola
16:39:48  <peter1138> aloh
16:39:50  <Wolf01> o/
16:40:21  <Wolf01> i'm exhausted...
16:41:19  <peter1138> stop holding your arm in the air then
16:42:04  <Wolf01> 2 days of playing with lego technic vehicles at the model exposition, after 3 hours is not fun anymore, it is hard work
16:42:41  <Wolf01> we moved around a table about 9kg of candies for the children
16:49:50  <planetmaker> first world problems ;)
16:56:27  <Alberth> let the children eat the table first :)
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16:57:34  <TELK> Hi, does anyone know why updating at BaNaNaS does not work?
16:59:28  <Alberth> most likely because you are doing something wrong
16:59:40  <Alberth> but the web interface is terrible at reporting errors
17:00:05  <Alberth> did you try using musa? It is said to be better at indicating errors
17:04:19  <TELK> I don't think "Unhandled Exception" at Manage menu is not my fault.
17:04:56  <TELK> it seems that somethings are wrong in bananas' server
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17:18:16  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, Rubidium ? ^
17:18:43  <planetmaker> TELK, where exactly does it occur? when?
17:18:54  <TELK> Now,
17:19:05  <TELK> on Manage menu at bananas
17:19:14  <TELK> impossible to update/edit/upload
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17:20:31  <planetmaker> I get that only for 'upload new'. Which is bad enough
17:21:01  <planetmaker> and on 'update' and 'edit' for some entries it seems. But definitely not all which I have access to
17:22:38  <TELK> Do you think it will be fixed in half hour? or I'll go to sleep.
17:23:02  <frosch123> better go to sleep for sur e:)
17:24:42  <TELK> ok, I will come back to tell if it will not be also fixed tomorrow :)
17:24:49  <TELK> See ya
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17:45:19  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27391 trunk/src/lang/english_US.txt (2015-08-31 19:45:13 +0200 )
17:45:20  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:21  <DorpsGek> english_US - 2 changes by Supercheese
17:55:25  <NGC3982> I notice that there is some kind of checksummy thing before the NewGRF's in the latest Windows release.
17:55:43  <NGC3982> Should i keep it when copying to a linux config?
17:56:38  <planetmaker> yes
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17:59:27  <frosch123> NGC3982: the checksum takes priority over the paths, so if you have them, you actually do not need to adjust the paths
17:59:44  <NGC3982> Oh!
17:59:46  <NGC3982> That's nice.
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18:30:19  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: mostly those issues are resolved by using musa
18:34:57  <Alberth> my suggestion to use that, got dismissed very quickly :)
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18:45:29  <Alberth> o/
18:49:22  <TrueBrain> Alberth: his base assumption that it would mean it is not his fault, is the fault, I am afraid :(
18:49:33  <TrueBrain> only his fault is unhandled, that is our fault :D
18:50:16  <Alberth> yeah, better error reporting would be nice though, "unhandled exception" is a little ambiguous :p
18:51:41  <frosch123> can you replace it with "please use musa"? :p
18:52:30  <TrueBrain> hehe
19:03:16  <peter1138> ah itchy foot
19:05:03  <andythenorth> itchy cat
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19:08:34  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the suggestion cannot be to not use the website. That error occurs not during upload but just when clicking the button(s)
19:09:17  <planetmaker> it's not a size issue
19:11:17  * andythenorth refrains from childish comments
19:11:45  <planetmaker> :)
19:12:30  <planetmaker> can musa modify description and availability of already uploaded content? If so, it may be the answer, otherwise it's a real usability issue ;)
19:16:02  <TrueBrain> musa should be able to replace BaNaNaS management completely
19:16:07  <TrueBrain> should would could
19:16:09  <TrueBrain> basically
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19:19:21  <andythenorth> debate over cargo colour, finally solved :P
19:19:29  <andythenorth> iron ore is the colour of TTD copper :P
19:20:49  <glx> always rusty ?
19:21:38  * NGC3982 wants to see how many AI's he can cram into a public server.
19:21:57  <TrueBrain> 42
19:22:05  <glx> 15
19:22:58  <planetmaker> :)
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19:39:48  <NGC3982> Uhm
19:40:10  <NGC3982> Simply pasting the windows files for AIAI from windows to the linux box was not that simple.
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19:58:23  <TartarusMkII> Oh wow, this is #OpenTTD?
19:59:13  <peter1138> possibly
19:59:37  <TartarusMkII> I was here asking for lots of advice and stuff in the spring, and wow I am so happy to see so many people here!
19:59:50  <TartarusMkII> How is everyone, how is the game? Thanks to anyone involved for the work being done!
20:00:58  <Supercheese> Game is still fun, last I checked
20:01:21  <Supercheese> I wast- err, fruitfully spent many hours playing it this week
20:04:41  <TartarusMkII> Yea, I popped into ask some very stupid questions
20:04:53  <frosch123> there were no less people in spring
20:05:08  <frosch123> we have 100 idlers for years
20:05:11  <TartarusMkII> I don't remember nearly as many people, but I'd say growth is a good thing
20:05:12  <TartarusMkII> really? huh
20:05:53  <TartarusMkII> I went on a vacation and took an up to date but vanilla OpenTTD with me, and I finally learned how to play the game fluently in the early years, and I am glad. But I wanna talk to you guys about managing mods. Now that I am home, my main OpenTTD is up to date, but I have lots of mods that either never worked, or I do not know if they are up to date anymoe.
20:06:25  <TartarusMkII> Is there a way to tell in-game if a mod is up to date? And is it a pain to find the files themselves to manually remove mods that don't work? (I have some old crappy city name packs that just don't work)
20:06:42  <frosch123> well, go to content download, click select upgrades and download :p
20:07:14  <frosch123> about townnames: you probably don't know how to activate them :p
20:07:26  <frosch123> they do work, but it may not be as straight forward :p
20:07:43  <frosch123> you first add them in newgrf settings, and then go to game otions and select them from the town names list
20:07:46  <frosch123> then you generate a map
20:08:19  <TartarusMkII> oh no, some of them worked, but some didn't. I am not knocking them, but I mean that I want to clean out the long list of mods that I don't want to use anymore, like if I found a better mod for the same purpose, etc
20:10:56  <TartarusMkII> also I know I have some mods that had to be installed outside of the game, like, that were too complex for the ingame browser or just wasn't offered.
20:11:06  <TartarusMkII> So now I am just sort of confused, unable to remember what in my list works and what doesn't.
20:11:21  <TartarusMkII> I mean, I remember FIRS is a beautiful thing , but... what else.. you know?
20:11:30  <frosch123> start slow :p don't activate more than 5
20:11:57  <frosch123> if you don't know what something is, and it has no description, don't use it
20:12:07  <frosch123> also, don't use things which have the same name
20:12:08  <TartarusMkII> If I may offer a newer player's perspective, my only criticism of the very awesome ingame browser, is that it's difficult for me to tell what a mod IS. What it is classified as. For example, I know there is a difference between terrain graphics and vehicle graphics, but
20:12:29  <TartarusMkII> I feel almost like if I didn't know exactly, its hard to tell that this is a pack of vehicles vs a pack of graphics
20:12:49  <TartarusMkII> Like, it could be explained slightly better in the descriptions, dialogues, etc
20:13:07  <frosch123> well, people have no pr department
20:13:15  <frosch123> they explain it to what they think is their audience
20:13:30  <TartarusMkII> oh of course, I don't really mean the offers themselves
20:13:35  <TartarusMkII> offers? authors*
20:14:40  <TartarusMkII> But nevermind no biggy haha
20:15:24  <TartarusMkII> I do have one legitimate request/suggestion for an actual practical feature. May I put it out in here for criticism before I bother making a proper suggestion?
20:16:13  <frosch123> you can, but don't be disappointed if noone cares
20:16:44  <TartarusMkII> You shine so brightly, Frosch
20:16:53  <frosch123> openttd is very sandboxy, everyone plays it different
20:17:08  <TartarusMkII> Tell me, if no one here cares about the development of an open source game, why exactly are we all idling here? What goes on?
20:18:26  <frosch123> don't worry, it's just that people are often eager to tell how they think ottd is played, but then noone else does like them
20:18:47  <frosch123> about the the people here, i do not know half of them and i am almost constantly here
20:19:05  <frosch123> they are a mystery to me as well :)
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20:19:32  <TartarusMkII> Yea, I figure no one plays it the same- which is a good thing
20:19:47  <TartarusMkII> anyhow, you know how you can make new sub-categories in the transportation windows?
20:19:52  <frosch123> some other 1/6 or so are people i knew in the past, but who left long ago, but never quit their bouncer
20:20:09  <frosch123> you mean the group gui?
20:20:33  <TartarusMkII> like what I usually do is in the beginning, I make a group called industry, then a sub group in that group for like woods->mill by town name, etc
20:20:42  <TartarusMkII> I think so yea, I forget what the windows call themselves
20:22:43  <TartarusMkII> anyhow, what I end up doing (the way I play), is that I make a network of transportation between a few closeby cities with one as the terminus where most stuff meets, or comes in and out of the bundle
20:23:03  <TartarusMkII> so that group will be the terminus, with each thing like mail to each individual cities, busses, goods, etc, will each be their own sub group under it
20:23:35  <TartarusMkII> but once I make another terminus to make long range passenger and mail trade, I have so many groups to scroll through
20:24:02  <TartarusMkII> so my thought is that if these categories could collapse and expand, it would make managing the window a lot easier
20:24:20  <TartarusMkII> but I feel like that is a common 'issue' to run into, so perhaps is there a REASON we don't already have it?
20:24:35  <frosch123> no, just noone did it :)
20:25:11  <TartarusMkII> What do you think, would it be something useful?>
20:25:45  <frosch123> i used groups years ago out of a habbit, then stopped and wondered why i use groups. the only reason i found was autoreplace. so i stopped creating groups, and only created add-hoc groups when i wanted to replace a subset of vehicles
20:26:16  <TartarusMkII> interesting
20:26:20  <TartarusMkII> so like, what do you do instead?
20:26:29  <frosch123> with some vehicle sets i also grouped them into "heavy load", ... "fast" etc to replace the engines with certain types later on
20:26:46  <frosch123> but since NUTS that has also been superfluous, since there are engines of each class at the beginning
20:27:00  <frosch123> so, when using NUTS i see no point in groups at all :p
20:27:12  <TartarusMkII> not to say groups are essential to my play style, but if there is ever an issue, maybe a train crash or something stupid, maybe a certain group of vehicles are losing money, it helps me to know which group they are in to see what I tasked them with to tell me what the issue is
20:27:18  <TartarusMkII> NUTS?
20:27:39  <frosch123> it's a train set, which focussed on gameplay rather than some realworld scenario
20:28:16  <frosch123> TartarusMkII: that's what shared orders are for
20:28:29  <TartarusMkII> yea luckily I learned to use those XD
20:28:32  <frosch123> there are also implicit vehicle lists at stations
20:28:42  <TartarusMkII> how so? can you tell me about that?
20:28:55  <frosch123> as said, i used to use groups, but then wondered why i did, and did not find a good reason :p
20:29:02  <TartarusMkII> I like hearing about other people's playstyles simply because it makes me aware of stuff or techniques I had no idea about before XD
20:29:23  <frosch123> in the station window there are small vehicle buttons in the bottom right
20:29:32  <frosch123> which displays all vehicles with that station/depot in their order
20:30:04  <TartarusMkII> oh huh thats interesting
20:30:08  <frosch123> you cannot use that list for autoreplace, but you can use it to send some vehicles to depot to remove them, or clone them to add more
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20:34:20  <TartarusMkII> do you recall someone's set of mods that interact with FIRS that you have to get from their site and not in-game?
20:35:35  <frosch123> i don't thnik so
20:35:57  <frosch123> there are only very few people who do not use the in-game thingie, and they usually do not cooperate with anyone
20:36:16  <frosch123> (which is somewhat also the reason why they do not put it into the in-game thingie)
20:36:33  <frosch123> so, it's rather unlikely that they would make something for firs
20:36:43  <TartarusMkII> hm
20:36:56  <TartarusMkII> okie. I'm in a LoL match but then I'll poke and see whatm ods to collect
20:49:08  <Wolf01> embarcadero released delphi 10 skipping the 9... just to copycat microsoft?
20:49:50  <frosch123> should they have called it X instead? :p
20:50:30  <Wolf01> no, XE9 maybe
20:51:15  <frosch123> anyway, i liked delphi 2
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21:16:08  <Eddi|zuHause> today i got a very concerned e-mail from google that i used my account on a windows machine!
21:23:43  <TartarusMkII> I work in sports Television, and this year they are not calling the Superbowl by roman numerals because as it's the 50th super bowl, the number would just be L
21:23:47  <TartarusMkII> so it's Super Bowl 2015
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21:25:11  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't they already have a very loose interpretation of the rules how to arrange roman numerals?
21:25:31  <glx> TartarusMkII: hehe L is not impressive enough :)
21:25:38  <TartarusMkII> da lol
21:25:44  <TartarusMkII> and not sure
21:26:31  <Eddi|zuHause> also, isn't the next superbowl in 2016?
21:28:23  <glx> wiki says XLIX, 50, LI, LII
21:30:49  <TartarusMkII> so other than NUTS and FIRS are there any other singular packs anyone would suggest?
21:31:10  <TartarusMkII> and yes you're right, I just forgot to put it in the next year. What I meant was they changed the format to be of the season instead.
21:31:24  <TartarusMkII> and yea its 50 because its the 50th anivesersary
21:31:35  <planetmaker> if you use FIRS you'll want a road vehicle and ship set, too
21:31:56  <planetmaker> e.g. opengfx+rv or egrvts2 and fish2 / squid
21:32:17  <planetmaker> maybe also heqs
21:35:14  <TartarusMkII> oh right thanks!
21:35:34  <TartarusMkII> anything for aircrat?
21:35:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Av8
21:36:18  <Eddi|zuHause> should give you all aircrud you'll need
21:36:48  <TartarusMkII> thanks so much
21:37:06  <Eddi|zuHause> after all these years, i've still not understood what the target audience of WAS is
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21:38:41  <TartarusMkII> Sorry I  feel really bad, I accidentally closed the chat. May I please ask for the names of those mods again? ugh.
21:38:53  <TartarusMkII> also does anyone know where the mod files are kept? I want to delete the mall to wipe them clean
21:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause> @logs
21:43:34  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause:
21:44:44  <Eddi|zuHause> TartarusMkII: you can clean everything (config, savegames, downloaded content, etc.) by deleting your personal openttd directory
21:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause> (Documents\Openttd on windows)
22:08:27  <TartarusMkII> thanks a ton Eddi
22:08:30  <TartarusMkII> and back, sorry about the delay
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22:12:21  <TartarusMkII> haha really appreciate it.
22:13:01  <TartarusMkII> I know as Frosch said most people have different play styles and goals, but I'd love to hear more about (vanilla-ish) goals that people have
22:13:17  <TartarusMkII> I noticed that it was neat to finally get far enough through the game to get new RVs to upgrade to, but what would come next?
22:13:23  <TartarusMkII> Connect more cities? what else?
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22:19:44  <Wolf01> 'night
22:19:48  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:24:26  <TartarusMkII> any preference on symmetric or asymetric distro?
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22:48:46  <TartarusMkII> sorry for so many questions. YETI extended towns and insustries is really big. is it any good?
22:48:52  <TartarusMkII> I think it is meant to interface with FIRS?
22:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably shouldn't mix YETI with FIRS
22:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> and YETI is monstrous, because it has very detailed animated full zoom graphics
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23:10:11  <TartarusMkII> is YETI's graphics more detailed and not pixely like the original gfx?
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23:12:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure the thread has example pictures
23:19:17  <TartarusMkII> ah right ty
23:21:05  <TartarusMkII> ah yea it's the other type
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