Log for #openttd on 8th September 2015:
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00:04:38  <Inhumanity> thanks
00:06:04  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, if we wanted to add it now, we have to drop the original graphics
00:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause> as we cannot make changes to those, which are needed for having the rotations
00:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause> also, lots of existing house and industry NewGRFs would get invalidated
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01:36:55  <Flygon> Ehh, could always do the 98SE solution
01:37:08  <Flygon> Allow Hibernation ONLY if you have all the right drivers
01:37:15  <Flygon> Do the same with rotations
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03:47:53  <Supercheese> Eeeeh... camera rotation is rather TMWFTLB
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11:23:37  <andythenorth> is cat?
11:24:33  <V453000> is
11:24:41  <andythenorth> acers
11:27:09  <V453000> how is your pit?
11:28:06  <andythenorth> awesomes
11:28:18  <andythenorth> I completely deleted all the things that some players would like about it
11:29:13  <andythenorth> e.g. it no longer looks like you can load vehicles at one specific building
11:29:22  <V453000> XD
11:29:35  <V453000> but what will The Community say about that?
11:29:55  <andythenorth> maybe they’ll whine about that and overlook the other changes
11:29:57  <andythenorth> honey pot
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11:31:22  <V453000> :D
11:31:34  <V453000> what are the other changes?
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11:33:47  <andythenorth>
11:34:02  <andythenorth> removed the funky TTD-style fence in favour of base set fence
11:34:07  <andythenorth> removed the pit entrance
11:34:14  <andythenorth> removed the front loader
11:34:23  <andythenorth> removed the loading chutes from the big silo
11:34:48  <V453000> doesnt look like farm yet
11:34:50  <V453000> -> works
11:35:14  <andythenorth> this is one of the early industries I drew and it was trying to be too realistic
11:35:16  <andythenorth> like a scale model
11:35:24  <andythenorth> not worky
11:46:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd still like it more if there was no gap, and the buildings just alongside one edge of the industry
11:46:50  <andythenorth> yeah you wouldn’t :)
11:46:58  <andythenorth> there’s a horrible graphical glitch then
11:47:20  <andythenorth> the ground tiles for the buildings make a hard edge against the grass tiles
11:47:22  <andythenorth> looks weird
11:47:38  * andythenorth tried it, because convincing argument was made
11:47:58  <Eddi|zuHause> how is that different from now?
11:48:03  <andythenorth>
11:48:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you should make the clay go up to the buildings
11:48:58  <V453000> DRAW stuff to connect it ? XD
11:49:00  <V453000> ye
11:49:38  <andythenorth> for three different layouts
11:49:51  <andythenorth> for two different industries that use same sprites, recoloured manually
11:51:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and ideally the crane would be on the same side as the buildings
11:51:29  <andythenorth> I’ll consider it for v3
11:52:34  <Eddi|zuHause> also, the buildings should only stick out 1 row out of the pit
11:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly overlapping the two areas
11:59:03  <andythenorth> ha ha
11:59:12  <andythenorth> basically, to make these sprites good
11:59:28  <andythenorth> it would be best to start with a blank spritesheet :)
12:01:24  <V453000> I think if you ponder less and do more, it will get better results immediately :P
12:04:36  <andythenorth> thing is
12:04:53  <andythenorth> quarries are stupid to feature in TTD scale
12:04:58  <andythenorth> there’s no way it’s ever going to work
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12:30:25  <peter1138> what is TTD scale?
12:36:33  <andythenorth> ‘variable’
12:36:50  <andythenorth> which idiot started talking about scale?
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13:01:03  <Supercheese> Why does it have fences around the entire perimeter? Where are the workers/vehicles supposed to go in/out?
13:01:36  <Supercheese> Well, in the _10 version, that is
13:04:24  <andythenorth> you don’t need to worry about that
13:04:35  <andythenorth> it’s not important :)
13:04:47  <V453000> IS
13:04:56  <V453000> CHANGE IMMUDETELY
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13:05:54  <andythenorth> first must change OpenTTD
13:06:00  <andythenorth> vehicles now enter industries
13:06:29  <andythenorth> Supercheese: the fence actually contains multiple gates
13:06:40  <andythenorth> but I’ve drawn them small, you can only see them on retina screens
13:06:55  <andythenorth> or in your imagination :P
13:06:56  <V453000> xd
13:06:56  <Supercheese> Haha
13:07:57  <andythenorth> shall I add a small truck?
13:08:11  <andythenorth> I feel that pikka’s small generic truck sprite is not used enough :P
13:08:17  <andythenorth> like the crawler cranes also :P
13:10:13  <andythenorth> actually the truck is hardly used at all in FIRS :)
13:10:17  * andythenorth mis-remembered
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13:40:11  <andythenorth> eh
13:40:17  <andythenorth> V453000: the pit looks bare
13:40:28  <andythenorth> shall I delete 1 row of tiles so it’s 4x4?
13:40:31  <andythenorth> or add a slug?
13:40:33  <andythenorth> or what?
13:40:51  <andythenorth> giant yellow duck?
13:48:49  <planetmaker> a truck to haul it away
13:49:13  <andythenorth> there was some reason I deleted the dump trucks
13:49:16  <andythenorth> I forget why
13:49:33  <planetmaker> 4x4 would suffice for size. Or 3x5
13:50:49  <planetmaker> it would be nice to have a version for sloped terrain where the sand is taken from the slope. But placement... so pro'ly not worth the effort
13:51:45  <andythenorth> one day I might tackle it
13:51:50  <andythenorth> the water thing annoys me
13:51:57  <andythenorth> but it’s a lot of work to make good
13:57:14  <planetmaker> yes...
13:57:29  <planetmaker> open pit mines are big hassle to get right and interesting
13:57:34  <andythenorth> I might do it just for bloody-mindedness
13:57:45  <andythenorth> but not while I have such little time for newgrfs :P
13:59:42  <andythenorth> planetmaker: 3x5? o_O
13:59:49  <andythenorth> obviously needs tweaks
14:01:17  <andythenorth> will also improve placement opportunities further
14:02:10  <planetmaker> with a bit less green border: sure, why not? :)
14:02:27  * andythenorth thinks it’s better with less water
14:02:46  <planetmaker> looks quite good, I think. it doesn't miss anything compared to the 4x5 version
14:14:54  <andythenorth> eh, not bad
14:14:58  * andythenorth fixed the edges
14:15:07  * andythenorth is happier with this overall
14:15:36  <andythenorth> I should have left an arbitrary island in the water, with seagulls circling :P
14:16:56  <planetmaker> yup :D
14:17:05  <planetmaker> or just a quacking duck ;)
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14:32:17  <peter1138> what is it, a water mine?
14:32:52  <andythenorth> yes but no but
14:33:06  <planetmaker> it explodes upon contact with the crane
14:35:20  <peter1138> water's probably a bit too blue for a clay pit
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14:37:33  <peter1138> also there's loads of it
14:39:29  <andythenorth> if someone would patch “newgrf can specify terrain shape” I would bin the water
14:39:33  <andythenorth> and draw a quarry shape
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14:41:19  <andythenorth> hmm
14:41:31  <andythenorth> I could make the small hut a pump
14:41:41  <andythenorth> and it could have animated ‘breakdown'
14:41:42  <andythenorth> smoke
14:41:47  <andythenorth> then the pit fills up with water :P
14:41:49  <andythenorth> then drains again
14:42:13  <peter1138> not clean water though
14:42:16  <andythenorth>
14:42:17  <andythenorth> ?
14:43:11  <andythenorth> also, water cycle?
14:43:12  <andythenorth> :P
14:43:22  <andythenorth> water cycle is broken for me anyway, maybe I should ignore it
14:44:15  <peter1138> palette animation
14:44:21  <peter1138> no reason for that to not work
14:45:11  <andythenorth> because Apple
14:45:19  <andythenorth> kills performance horribly
14:45:31  <andythenorth> although “because Apple” is all you needed :P
14:47:36  <peter1138> what?
14:48:27  <andythenorth> if I enable ‘full animation’ OpenTTD chugs horribly
14:48:36  <andythenorth> previous advice was to buy a new computer
14:48:40  <peter1138> it slows down fast forward a bit
14:48:46  <peter1138> but otherwise should be fine
14:48:56  <peter1138> alright, a lot
14:50:13  <andythenorth> and black squares all over the screen
14:50:24  <peter1138> no that's not a feature of palette animation
14:50:31  <andythenorth> unrelated
14:50:42  <andythenorth> caused by toggling it on
14:50:49  <andythenorth> but not off
14:51:53  <andythenorth> anyway I can’t buy a new computer, so I turned off full animation :P
14:55:53  <andythenorth> 512x512 map, 1 train, the animation of track building cost (moving upwards, classic 80s style) takes about 4s with full animation off
14:55:58  <andythenorth> and about 6s with full animation on
14:56:08  <andythenorth> even allowing that my counting is crap
14:58:45  * andythenorth back to muddy waters
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15:45:07  <andythenorth> green clay pit water? o_O
15:46:00  <V453000> ponder less :)
15:46:59  <Sylf> that might look too weird in 8bit graphics
15:47:35  <andythenorth> V453000: I’m done pitting tbh
15:47:42  <andythenorth> is finisheds
15:47:51  <andythenorth> new things to do
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16:00:53  <andythenorth> mines mines mines
16:00:58  <andythenorth> are a pain the arse
16:03:14  <Alberth> there is grass underneath the clay :p
16:04:31  <andythenorth> I need to replace base set sprites at multiple other mines
16:04:43  <andythenorth> Gold Mine, Iron Ore Mine, Copper Mine, Bauxite Mine
16:04:57  <andythenorth> open pit mines really don’t work well in OpenTTD
16:05:05  <andythenorth> and deep mines will all look the same :P
16:07:25  <andythenorth> maybe I just need some colour schemes
16:07:47  <Alberth> wouldn't an open mine have big heaps of top soil?
16:07:58  <Alberth> or at least one or two of them?
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16:08:10  <Wolf01> o/
16:08:11  <Alberth> hihi W
16:08:34  <andythenorth> open mines have big spoil heaps
16:08:37  <andythenorth> and a massive pit :P
16:08:52  <Alberth> open gold mine is probably very big due to low concentration of the good stuff(tm)
16:09:01  <andythenorth> just make it a gold pan on a river :P
16:09:04  <andythenorth> 1 tile
16:09:35  <Alberth> but you need a washing installation, a small lake for the water, and bulldozers
16:09:44  <andythenorth> hmm
16:09:46  <andythenorth> Gold Rush
16:09:59  <andythenorth>
16:10:09  <andythenorth> this is certainly not going to fit :P
16:12:32  <Alberth> looks like ECS sand pit :)
16:13:11  * andythenorth wonders
16:13:18  <andythenorth> we have those rock tiles on base terrain
16:13:26  <andythenorth> repaint those to have no gaps
16:13:31  <andythenorth> let the mine just follow the terrain
16:13:35  <andythenorth> ??
16:13:43  <andythenorth> won’t have nice shaped edges and such mind
16:19:35  <Alberth> could be confusing if some have no rocks, and I want to put a track or depot there?
16:20:03  <Alberth> ie it's nice if it's clear where the industry starts and ends
16:21:05  <Alberth> there are a number of industries that are literally invisible in transparent mode, which is highly annoying if you're planning a track through them
16:24:27  <andythenorth> +1
16:24:36  <andythenorth> if you notice that in FIRS, let me know
16:24:42  <andythenorth> I can draw ground tiles
16:27:01  <Sylf> i need fix that in YETI too
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16:59:41  <andythenorth>
16:59:42  <andythenorth> ha
16:59:48  <andythenorth> too much bulldozer? o_O
17:02:32  <Rubidium> rather weird scale for the yellow one
17:02:49  <andythenorth> “is a big one"
17:02:50  <andythenorth> :P
17:03:04  * andythenorth changes it
17:07:22  <andythenorth> hmm there’s an even bigger one in HEQS
17:22:00  <Supercheese> are all these newly redesigned industries going to be fenced in all-round?
17:22:57  <Supercheese> or perhaps the images at the docs are not indicative of that
17:23:40  <andythenorth> mostly they’re fenced in
17:23:45  <andythenorth> mostly they’ve been fenced in for a while
17:23:51  <Alberth> they're trying to keep all the bad transport companies out :)
17:24:04  <Supercheese> yeah nevermind the docs are seemingly not accurate
17:24:19  * Supercheese hasn't actually tried the newest versions of FIRS
17:24:47  <andythenorth> v2 docs here
17:24:51  <andythenorth> mostly up to date, ish
17:24:59  <andythenorth> making docs images is tedious, so they’re not 100% accurate
17:25:58  <Supercheese> yeah, I was misinterpreting them
17:25:59  <andythenorth> boring smaller dozer :P
17:26:08  <andythenorth> eh, at least I can animate it :)
17:26:10  <andythenorth> back and forth
17:26:12  <andythenorth> forth and back
17:26:26  <Supercheese> spin around
17:26:29  <Supercheese> do a dance
17:26:39  <Alberth> up side down
17:31:52  <andythenorth> should I just release v2?
17:32:06  <andythenorth> beta?
17:32:08  <Alberth> any reason not to?
17:32:33  <andythenorth> isn’t done :D
17:32:46  <Alberth> ha :)
17:32:53  <andythenorth> I dunno, there’s always v3
17:33:23  <Alberth> yep, lots of unused numbers available until infinity
17:34:10  <andythenorth> 368 commits since 1.4.4
17:34:16  <andythenorth> commits != features but eh
17:34:18  <andythenorth> it’s a few
17:34:51  <Alberth> refactoring improvements is also worthwhile
17:36:11  <planetmaker> hi hi
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17:44:54  <andythenorth> also for v2 I wanted an alternative supplies mechanic
17:45:05  <andythenorth> but eh, too much right now
17:45:43  <andythenorth> btw Supercheese, the fences auto-magically disappear when you build station adjacent ;)
17:46:02  <Supercheese> excellent
17:48:54  <andythenorth> bye
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22:13:10  <dlhero> any advice on how to improve this ?
22:13:11  <dlhero> :d
22:13:25  <dlhero> <--- really really bad at hubs
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22:14:10  <Sylf> are they all path signals?
22:14:38  <dlhero> yeah
22:14:49  <dlhero> haven't figure out how to use entry/exit to provide prio
22:15:19  <Sylf> also, what's wrong with it?
22:15:30  <Sylf> what needs to be improved?
22:16:27  <dlhero> can't figure out how to do non-blocking in/out from terminus station on the "main-line"
22:17:41  <Sylf> the screen shot alone doesnt tell much
22:18:28  <Sylf> one thing is, with path signals, you do NOT want signals after splits
22:19:25  <dlhero> i think i figured out when on the "entry bridges" of a station
22:19:40  <dlhero> path signals before/after the bridge, broke load balancing
22:20:09  <dlhero> so 1 path signal before the split, one after each entry bridge
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22:23:48  <Wolf01> <Sylf> one thing is, you do NOT want signals after splits <- fixed
22:24:54  <dlhero>
22:24:59  <Sylf> but you do want signals aftet splits if you use block signals
22:26:01  <Sylf> so, dont confuse those two types of signals
22:27:09  <dlhero> no I just use path signals, with rare exceptions
22:27:09  <Sylf> all of coop's articles assume you have good understandings of path signals, and block (pre-)signals
22:27:34  <dlhero> I understand PBS but the rest not that much
22:27:47  <Sylf> so if you only use path signals, dont copy stuff from coop sites
22:28:59  <dlhero> well I tried to understand the SLH example where one line is prioritized but I don't get how it works
22:34:03  <dlhero> for example, I do understand this particular case:
22:34:45  <dlhero> however I cannot understand why block signals are used after the exit signals
22:35:30  <Sylf> the outer 2 lines are given priority over inner lines in that image
22:36:28  <Sylf> also, that structure is built specifically for trains that are 3 tiles long
22:36:44  <dlhero> yeah, I deduced that.
22:37:01  <dlhero> you need longer diagonal lines for longer lines
22:37:03  <dlhero> (I think)
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22:55:24  <supermop> hello
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23:22:01  <Wolf01> 'night
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