Log for #openttd on 9th September 2015:
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08:31:27  <andythenorth> o/
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11:20:40  <Wolf01> hi o/
11:21:31  <dlhero> hi
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11:25:34  <andythenorth> o/
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11:48:14  * andythenorth hates coding industry animation
11:50:23  * Wolf01 hates steam skins
11:51:51  <planetmaker> \o
11:54:18  <Wolf01> oh, finally a scrollbar i can use with my fingers on steam
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12:18:44  <dlhero> is there a better way to differentiate btw then entry signal and the one way pbs?
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12:27:32  <andythenorth> dunno what your browser will do this but eh
12:27:36  <andythenorth> 9MB sorry
12:28:36  <dlhero> nice :)
12:31:34  <dlhero> oxi
12:38:50  <Snail> nicely done
12:38:56  <Snail> how about some crane animation? :p
12:43:02  <andythenorth> considered it
12:43:19  <andythenorth> can’t think how to do it without having to animate turning the crane
12:43:22  <andythenorth> not doing that
12:47:51  <planetmaker> nice, andythenorth
12:51:23  * andythenorth fails to make random start/stop on the animation :P
12:51:25  <andythenorth> never works
12:51:31  <andythenorth> doing something wrong :P
12:54:11  <Snail> I think MB can do it

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13:03:57  <andythenorth> I do something wrong with handling triggers
13:04:02  <andythenorth> it’s quite baffling tbh :)
13:06:36  <andythenorth> this bulldozer glitches sometimes, because I have a switch jumping to frame 0 to restart the animation
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14:59:47  <andythenorth> eh this animation is a bit sketchy, but I did the crane :)
14:59:48  <andythenorth>
15:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> it’s quite baffling tbh :) <-- it can stay baffling, or you can investigate what's actually going on.
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15:08:03  <andythenorth> it would require understanding
15:08:07  <andythenorth> I don’t have understanding
15:08:31  <andythenorth> I see no way to randomly start or stop an animation though
15:09:03  <andythenorth> in fact, it’s probably undesirable anyway
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15:13:42  <Alberth> oh, looks nice :)
15:14:05  <planetmaker> sweet, andythenorth :)
15:17:15  <andythenorth> it’s a bit of a party trick
15:18:29  <Alberth> parties are good
15:18:46  <andythenorth> the 5 year old has just reviewed my work
15:18:53  <andythenorth> he says there should be no gap :(
15:18:59  <andythenorth> or a pipe joining the two parts :P
15:19:47  <Eddi|zuHause> 5 year olds are always right
15:19:57  <planetmaker> are both industry parts one industry?
15:20:25  <andythenorth> yes
15:20:47  <planetmaker> oh... what do the many buildings add to the pit? :O
15:21:09  <Alberth> administration and planning :)
15:21:18  <planetmaker> I would have thought it's a separate cement industry taking sand, making building supplies
15:22:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the buildings used to be on the SW edge of the pit
15:22:36  <Eddi|zuHause> $someone thought that removing them there and putting them elsewhere made the industry easier to place
15:24:36  <andythenorth> it is
15:24:54  <andythenorth> factually
15:25:12  <andythenorth> as best as I can test for a small sample set
15:26:12  <andythenorth> if $someone could suggest a solution to the graphical problems, then I would remove the gap
15:27:32  <planetmaker> remove the buildings altogether. That part is not needed
15:27:41  <planetmaker> and placement is easier again
15:27:49  <andythenorth> that is an interesting suggestion
15:28:00  <Alberth> add building next to it with foundation and no ground?
15:28:16  <planetmaker> to me it really looked like a separate industry which accepts sand. I was not joking :)
15:28:37  <andythenorth> agreed
15:28:37  <Alberth> but FIRS has lots of industries that have 2 parts
15:28:47  <andythenorth> usually they are not so weird
15:28:57  <andythenorth> I’ve spent about 2 days redrawing the buildings
15:29:02  <andythenorth> but I’m tempted to just delete them
15:29:32  <Alberth> add one in the water :p
15:29:36  <planetmaker> they look nice, yes... but for a sand pit it looks like too many buildings to me
15:29:50  <planetmaker> a sandpit needs sand and a small operator / billing hut. that's it :D
15:42:13  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i imagine the buildings have sorting machines in them to separate smaller and larger pebbles
15:43:04  <andythenorth> they’re relatively bigger because the pit is now relatively smaller
15:44:43  <andythenorth> these two industries are ridiculously TMWFTLB now :)
15:44:45  <andythenorth> but eh
15:46:09  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ??
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15:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the pit shrinks in every iteration?
15:57:23  <andythenorth> yes
15:57:36  * andythenorth has shrunk it further
15:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make the pit wider, so the "beach" overlaps with the building
15:58:12  <andythenorth>
15:58:25  <andythenorth> even smaller ^
15:58:35  <andythenorth> but when is removing ‘removing too much’?
15:58:48  <andythenorth> this is starting to look like a postage stampe
15:58:53  <andythenorth> stamp *
15:58:54  <planetmaker> I like that size better
15:59:16  <planetmaker> I still think that the grass at the pit borders could receede more in favour of a slightly bigger pit
15:59:20  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in that last picture, the buildings should be rotated 90°
15:59:26  <planetmaker> maybe then the buildings could stand on sand, too
15:59:40  <planetmaker> and the 90° rotation for the buildings makes sense ^
16:00:05  <Eddi|zuHause> and yes, the sand should go all the way to the buildings
16:01:35  <andythenorth> hang on
16:01:39  <andythenorth> I think the problem is the pit
16:01:47  * andythenorth photoshops
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16:08:36  <andythenorth> ?
16:09:09  <planetmaker> :D
16:10:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't look very helpful :p
16:11:20  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like you had a mud flood :p
16:12:14  <andythenorth> 30s
16:13:08  <andythenorth>
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16:15:10  <andythenorth> either the grass has to go
16:15:16  <andythenorth> or the pit can’t be joined to the processor
16:15:26  <andythenorth> can’t have both at once
16:15:58  * andythenorth thinks maybe the grass is daft
16:16:11  <planetmaker> it isn't
16:16:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, planetmaker's idea was to make the pit (i.e. the water section) bigger, at the cost of some grass, and my idea was to convert the grass into sand on the side where the buildings are attached
16:16:55  <planetmaker> I like those both ideas joined. But I guess the issue is that the building is attached at several positions, depending on layout?
16:17:34  <andythenorth> but the buildings attach on multiple sides, yes
16:17:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so just have each side with a grass and a sand version, and use the appropriate one based on layout
16:18:33  <andythenorth> nah
16:18:36  <andythenorth> uncanny valley
16:19:59  <andythenorth> industries don’t change graphics per layout
16:20:07  <andythenorth> except grain mill, which changes utterly
16:20:39  <andythenorth> anyway, I think we’ve just re-learnt the definition of bikeshedding :D
16:20:47  <planetmaker> totally :)
16:21:00  <andythenorth> given that there are multiple industries which have much much bigger problems
16:21:21  <andythenorth> base-set iron ore mine in arctic anyone? o_O
16:21:21  <andythenorth> :P
16:22:30  <planetmaker> :)
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16:29:14  <andythenorth> anyway, I think the next step will be to eliminate the grass :P
16:29:19  <andythenorth> but how to do that, NFI :)
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16:34:29  <andythenorth> eh, just push the pit walls back right to the edge?
16:37:03  <Alberth> easier to move a few pixels :p
16:38:45  * andythenorth does that
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17:07:11  <Alberth> quak
17:07:19  <frosch123> moin
17:10:59  <Rubidium> moi
17:20:40  <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't that basically what we said?
17:22:19  <planetmaker> ho
17:38:24  <andythenorth> bah
17:38:25  <V453000> andythenorth: grass go, connected
17:38:29  <V453000> good stuff
17:38:30  <andythenorth> those industries can wait until v3
17:38:36  * andythenorth is super bored of them
17:38:58  <andythenorth> it makes piss all difference to gameplay, and you don’t even notice the details when building routes
17:39:54  <andythenorth> I have saved a copy of a file with the walls pushed back, but needs ~hours more work
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27395 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2015-09-09 19:45:14 +0200 )
17:45:24  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25  <DorpsGek> frisian - 14 changes by BAJansen
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18:03:55  <andythenorth> ooops
18:03:58  <andythenorth>
18:04:02  <andythenorth> bulldozer mining water
18:06:40  <dlhero> quick question
18:06:49  <dlhero> is there something like a farm runway?
18:07:11  <dlhero> you know just like a small airport but smaller. sth like 2*7 or 2*8
18:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that somewhat looks actually terrible...
18:09:00  <V453000> :))
18:09:41  <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: no, you can only change the looks of an airport, not the size of the runway and the paths the planes are moving
18:10:02  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that’s the requested change no?
18:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: more water, less sand
18:10:56  <dlhero> Eddi|zuHause: read some posts about custom airports and stuff. it must be hard to code airports
18:10:58  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, less repetitive sand and more colours
18:11:32  <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: that entirely depends on what level of "custom" you want
18:11:36  <andythenorth> I am unsure what is gained by more water
18:11:50  <andythenorth> it seems opposed to the goal of ‘less water'
18:12:05  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the repetitive sand pattern makes the area look really ugly
18:12:25  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and who said the goal was "less water"?
18:13:35  <andythenorth>
18:14:07  <andythenorth> also
18:14:24  <andythenorth> I thought the water was generally hated
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18:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't get that impression
18:15:41  <andythenorth> hmm
18:15:48  <andythenorth> coasts repeat, why shouldn’t the quarry repeat?
18:15:50  * andythenorth wonders
18:16:00  <andythenorth> the screenshot happens to prove that :P
18:16:26  * andythenorth is starting to think that it would be less work to do a proper quarry
18:16:46  <andythenorth> also to split the quarry apart
18:16:58  <andythenorth> it’s hard to make it plausibly a source of limestone and such
18:17:01  <andythenorth> and also sand
18:18:12  <dlhero> Eddi|zuHause: an airport with a shed hangar available from the 30's and for ever, with a simple runway
18:18:55  <Wolf01> wow every time i see this picture it gets another piece
18:19:16  <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: well, again, what i said applies. you can change the look of the airport (e.g. take the small or commuter airport as basis), and that is pretty easy actually
18:19:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but you cannot affect the way the planes move, e.g. the number or location of loading bays or the runway lengths
18:23:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: different solutions from different centuries
18:24:22  <dlhero> Eddi|zuHause: it's the size of the airport as a whole. 2x8 or 3x8 is what I'd aim for
18:25:10  <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: you can add fake tiles around it, to change the look, but the planes won't use them
18:26:00  <dlhero> a yeah that can be done
18:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause> dlhero: there is a "fake airport tiles" grf, if you want to take a look
18:26:58  <dlhero> well first I want to take a look on how airplanes work
18:28:08  <dlhero> the ideas was to be able to fit a very nice looking runway between the tiles of a farm
18:28:13  <dlhero> or adjacent to it
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18:40:33  <frosch123> Wolf01: is a canal bridge crossing a river, or a ship lift that unusual?
18:45:32  <Eddi|zuHause> the russians have way weirder ship lifts
18:46:10  <frosch123> i wonder whether the point of the picture is, that a short tunnel may look like a bridge :p
18:50:34  <andythenorth> planetmaker: this reduces the impression of two separate industries?
18:51:43  <planetmaker> I still wonder why there's space between :)
18:51:56  <planetmaker> but yes, it does somehow as the building is not as big as lime kiln or similar
18:52:33  <andythenorth> I have reduced the size of one of the buildings
18:52:37  <planetmaker> but that building looks much better-sized compared to the pit :)
18:52:58  <andythenorth> those buildings were originally drawn a long time ago, when I drew FIRS buildings too big
18:53:07  <Wolf01> can't you just put some eyecandy stuff like mud paths between the two and let those tiles buildable? just to confuse the user a bit more
18:54:23  <planetmaker> Wolf01, unfortunately over-buildable industry tiles are not yet there
18:54:34  <planetmaker> (except farm fields wich cannot be placed manually)
18:56:47  <Wolf01> no, i mean like those overlapping station tiles with the graphic larger than the tile they use, it might glitch out a lot but it could be a nice thing
18:57:18  <andythenorth> stockyard does that
19:05:13  <andythenorth> sensible thing would be a conveyor
19:05:23  <andythenorth> but it would be hard to do it without glitches
19:07:14  <Wolf01> animated suspended buckets
19:08:29  <Wolf01> something like this
19:12:05  <andythenorth> that would be awesome
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19:13:22  <Taede> catapult :p
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19:38:30  <planetmaker> seems people don't understand Haikus or whatever that was which makes our 1.5.2 announcement :)
19:41:21  <frosch123> haha, i like it :p
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19:42:39  <frosch123> the rc1 was definitely completely bug free :)
19:43:24  <Wolf01> just because nobody noticed them ;)
19:52:16  <andythenorth> so I’m shipping more or less this for FIRS v2
19:52:28  <andythenorth> the pipe to the de-watering pump needs a bit of work
19:52:56  <andythenorth> the front two layouts look fine, the green one has problems
19:52:58  <andythenorth> but eh
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23:44:22  <Wolf01> 'night
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