Log for #openttd on 13th September 2015:
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00:02:35  *** supermop [] has joined #openttd
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00:23:19  <Wolf01> mmh night time
00:23:28  <Wolf01> 'night all
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06:27:18  <andythenorth> o/
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06:28:30  <andythenorth> ha ha bitcoin currency
06:32:18  <Alberth> moin
06:37:23  <Supercheese> if you have 8 bitcoins, do you have a bytecoin?
06:46:58  <Alberth> sounds likely :)
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07:48:33  <andythenorth> such Bee
07:48:36  <andythenorth> so Busy
07:49:00  <Alberth> :)
07:49:06  <Supercheese> very Goal
07:50:47  <andythenorth> eh
07:50:57  <andythenorth> cdist should be renamed Cargo Flow
07:51:02  <andythenorth> it’s more accurate
07:51:44  <andythenorth> and (maybe this exists), I want an option to set demand ratio to 1/(number destination nodes)
07:52:04  <andythenorth> :P
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07:52:50  <andythenorth> I don’t know whether that would work well for routing at intermediate nodes
07:53:09  <andythenorth> but for source nodes, for freight cargos at least, it would make the most sense to me
07:56:37  <andythenorth> gah
07:56:38  <Alberth> disable distance influence?
07:56:47  <andythenorth> already done
07:56:57  <andythenorth> if I was a better programmer I would be able to solve this for myself
07:57:17  <andythenorth> but I have been programming for 32 of 37 years, and I only got marginally better in that time :P
07:58:04  <Alberth> too busy doing other things as well :)
07:58:29  <andythenorth> nah, I just miss some essential part of my brain that makes the difference between ‘good’ and ‘passable'
07:59:23  <Alberth> the latter only exists for me due to time constraints
07:59:40  <Alberth> or other bigger fish that needs to be fried first
08:01:05  <Supercheese> ugh I hate people who post mods that look cool based on the sreenshots but don't have a damn readme.txt to explain exactly what the mod does
08:01:40  <Supercheese> seriously, take the time to explain what the devil you've done, users like that
08:01:54  <andythenorth> ?
08:01:57  <Supercheese> Factorio
08:02:07  <Supercheese> but also applies to other games
08:02:28  <andythenorth> rename this channel
08:02:34  <Supercheese> they've banned mods without licenses, but they should also ban mods without readmes
08:02:40  <andythenorth> #formerlyOpenTTDnowFactorio
08:03:24  <Alberth> no "hate" button?
08:03:55  <Supercheese>  "description": "Various Things, related to Energy, Transformations"
08:04:04  <Supercheese> worst description ever
08:04:13  <andythenorth> hmm
08:04:19  <Alberth> nah, I can invent worse ones :p
08:04:41  <Supercheese> the graphics are gorgeous though, it's sad
08:04:54  <andythenorth> the goal I have in mind is entailed by “if I went to the planned view on a station, all destinations have same amount planned”
08:05:25  <Alberth> really?  even if your lines are unbalanced wrt capacity?
08:05:49  <andythenorth> yes
08:05:51  <andythenorth> absolutely
08:06:19  <andythenorth> not for pax
08:06:24  <andythenorth> nor mail
08:06:27  <andythenorth> but for freight
08:07:48  <Supercheese> Ho, FIRS 2 has shown up in the screenshots forum already
08:07:58  <Supercheese> people are quick to update it seems
08:08:37  <andythenorth> if I can find the right place in the lingraph or station_cmd.cpp I can patch this
08:08:44  <andythenorth> but there are so many places capacity is considered
08:15:29  <andythenorth> eh
08:15:40  <andythenorth> where’s the guard in cdist against positive feedback loop?
08:15:47  * andythenorth knows it must be there, but can’t see it
08:16:34  <andythenorth> add more vehicles -> edge capacity is increased -> flow ratio to that edge increased -> more cargo waiting -> add more vehicles
08:17:06  <andythenorth> ach
08:17:11  * andythenorth must to the park with children
08:17:17  <andythenorth> bbl
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09:13:33  <planetmaker> moin moin
09:14:24  <Alberth> o/
09:14:35  <Alberth> just in time for some coffee
09:19:49  <TrueBrain> right; morning indeed :)
09:19:57  <TrueBrain> and the moving of VMs continue ... *is already tired of it* :P
09:20:19  <Alberth> #do the VM shuffle#
09:20:35  <TrueBrain> 7 done, 12 to go
09:22:52  <Taede> moin
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10:45:08  <frosch123> Alberth: any idea about fs#6370 ?
10:47:02  <Alberth> oh, it's a different window
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10:47:45  <Alberth> so likely, it needs the same kind of changes as the normal in-game toolbar
10:47:54  <frosch123> i am not sure whether fs#6372 is the same, when there is an assertion our tool gives no useful backtrace
10:48:52  <Alberth> does sound likely
10:58:19  <Alberth>
11:10:58  <TrueBrain> Binaries on will be unavailable for ~5 minutes
11:11:03  <__ln__> oh no
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11:13:26  <Wolf01> hi o/
11:15:06  <frosch123> hola hi hoi
11:16:19  <frosch123> i wonder when we finally rename IMGBTN and TEXTBTN to TOGGLExxxBTN
11:16:34  <TrueBrain> I feel a patch coming up? :P
11:18:34  <TrueBrain> ugh, filecheck kicked in .. this will take a bit more time :D
11:23:45  <TrueBrain> okay, alive and kicking again
11:23:46  <TrueBrain> w00p
11:28:52  <TrueBrain> LDAP will be bye-bye for a few; authentication will fail :)
11:29:25  <frosch123> don't lock yourself out :)
11:29:37  <TrueBrain> hehe
11:30:02  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
11:31:07  <TrueBrain> and it is back online :)
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11:44:51  <wito> Good morning, fellers, I'm having an odd problem and was wondering if someone could help me out?
11:45:03  <wito> Is anyone familiar with font settings on Mac OS X?
11:49:39  <wito> I set small_font, and everything is groovy, but I set medium_font, and all the fonts are replaced with some other font, at all sizes.
11:55:15  <TrueBrain> MySQL server will go down for a few minutes; expect issues on all services
12:00:47  <Alberth> you also set fontsize?
12:00:57  <Alberth> no mac here, but iirc that was required too
12:01:22  <wito> Yeah, font-size too
12:02:07  <wito> Getting this: dbg: [freetype] CT-Font for en_US: American Typewriter
12:02:32  <wito> American Typewriter is the wrong font, also, the first font alphabetically, so I assume that's why it's selected.
12:02:50  <Alberth> sounds fair enough
12:03:06  <Alberth> so it may no be able to find your font?
12:03:10  <TrueBrain> MySQL is back up; it will take several minutes before all services notice it is :)
12:03:18  <wito> Finds it fine for small_font
12:03:35  <Alberth> added quotes around the font-name for the spaces?
12:03:48  <wito> No spaces in the font name.
12:03:56  <wito> dbg: [freetype] Requested 'Osaka', using 'Osaka Regular'
12:03:57  <Alberth> small_font is not much used
12:04:24  <Alberth> requested font exists in requested point size?
12:04:29  <wito> Hrm.
12:04:55  <DorpsGek> Commit by alberth :: r27397 trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp (2015-09-13 14:04:47 +0200 )
12:04:56  <DorpsGek> -Fix(r27346)[FS#6370]: Fix object editing crash in scenario editor (based on work by adf88)
12:05:33  <wito> It is 12, so it should, but I can check
12:05:57  <Alberth> try the small font settings?
12:06:05  <Alberth> that should work at least
12:06:31  <Alberth> tbh no idea what's wrong, mostly just tossing ideas
12:06:47  <Alberth> frosch123: close #6372 too?
12:07:55  <frosch123> did the bug trigger that assetions? i did not check
12:08:11  <Alberth> hmm, assertion looks wrong   nwid  != NULL
12:09:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it's the point of an assertion to look wrong?
12:09:21  <wito> Okay, so setting the small font works, setting the large works.
12:09:36  <wito> But I set the medium, and everything falls back to American Typewriter.
12:10:23  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: it's wrong in the sense it's not one I expected :p
12:10:30  <Eddi|zuHause> wito: the question was whether it works if you set medium font size to the same as the small font size
12:11:52  <wito> Nope. If I set the medium font size to the same as the small and set the font, it falls back.
12:12:24  <wito> If I don't set the medium font, it uses the default default font.
12:13:26  <Alberth> typo?  try searching for the font, it should hit at both places
12:13:44  <Alberth> case sensitive search :)
12:14:03  <wito> Search what for the font?
12:14:15  <Alberth> search the font name in the file
12:14:27  <Alberth> if you spelled it exactly the same, you get 2 hits
12:14:43  <Alberth> if you typoed, you get less then 2 hits
12:15:00  <andythenorth> eh
12:15:05  * andythenorth ponders a water mill in FIRS
12:15:09  <wito> The font name is spelled correctly.
12:15:23  <Alberth> do you use other fonts, andy?
12:15:24  <wito> It's copy-pasted, so would have to be.
12:15:36  <andythenorth> I only use the original TTD base set
12:15:44  <andythenorth> anything else looks wrong to me
12:15:54  <Alberth> :)
12:16:00  <andythenorth> I didn’t know fonts could be changed :)
12:17:01  <Alberth> well, theoretically, it should be possible. Reality however seems to disagree currently :)
12:18:10  <wito> I'm going to have to dig into the source.
12:18:10  <Alberth> wito: tried setting only the normal font?    maybe it breaks on having several different sizes at the same time
12:18:25  <wito> What's the command for checking out the SVN?
12:18:26  <Alberth> which would be weird too
12:18:33  <andythenorth> wito: use the git checkout
12:18:39  <andythenorth>
12:18:55  <wito> Even better.
12:18:57  <andythenorth> or you can dig through the src tree online
12:19:07  <andythenorth> you want trunk.git usually
12:26:28  <wito> Hrm.
12:27:31  <wito> I think the problem might be in MissingGlyphSearcher::FindMissingGlyphs, but I'm not sure.
12:38:04  <andythenorth> hmm
12:38:17  <andythenorth> hazard of playing OpenTTD: I see things I want to change :|
12:44:55  <TrueBrain> FlySpray (bug-tracker) will be unavailable for a few minutes
12:47:56  <Xaroth|Work> OH NOES
12:47:58  <Xaroth|Work> the server is down!
12:48:10  <TrueBrain> @kick Xaroth|Work sod off
12:48:10  *** Xaroth|Work was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [sod off]
12:48:13  <TrueBrain> :D
12:48:23  *** Xaroth|Work [] has joined #openttd
12:48:27  <TrueBrain> wb!
12:48:28  <Xaroth|Work> how rude
12:48:29  <TrueBrain> where did you go?
12:48:38  <TrueBrain> FlySpray is back on its feet
12:48:51  <wito> Yay!
12:48:55  <wito> I solved it!
12:49:06  <wito> Turns out Osaka actually was missing glyphs.
12:52:47  <andythenorth> :)
12:57:21  <andythenorth> hmm
12:57:51  <wito> Where is the mono font used?
12:57:55  <TrueBrain> and ... the wiki will be out playing for a bit
12:58:04  <Alberth> wito: probably the readme
12:58:11  <Alberth> of newgrfs
12:59:27  <andythenorth> ha ha
12:59:29  <wito> Bingo
12:59:45  <andythenorth> ctrl-drag a train to the groups panel in the train list
12:59:47  <andythenorth> who knew?
12:59:55  <andythenorth> that’s a lot better than the alternative
13:01:47  <TrueBrain> and welcome back wiki
13:02:37  * andythenorth wonders about scaling station rating by era
13:02:52  <andythenorth> to account for slow vehicles
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13:09:42  <supermop> morning
13:10:36  <planetmaker> o/
13:11:01  <TrueBrain> almost done: all VCSes we host will be unreachable for ~5 minutes
13:14:32  <supermop> sounds like real work is going on
13:14:42  <supermop> hi planetmaker
13:19:08  <wito> Out of interest, what happened to random seeds in generating maps for single player?
13:19:10  <TrueBrain> and all VCSes are back on their feet too
13:19:19  <TrueBrain> the auto-boot didnt work on that machine, interesting ..
13:22:00  <frosch123> wito: it was made console-only
13:22:31  <wito> Well, I was more thinking 'why?'
13:23:23  <frosch123> because noone knows a valid usecase
13:24:20  <wito> I see.
13:26:05  <TrueBrain> all HTTP connections will be aborted and HTTP will be unavailable for ~10 minutes to (for all services)
13:26:38  <andythenorth> hmm
13:28:20  <andythenorth> how can I make the station building UI panel always open on left of screen, not center?
13:29:26  <andythenorth> because it fills the screen centered, it always obscures the map area where I’m trying to build
13:29:50  <TrueBrain> turn your screen 90 degrees; it will drop down to the left of your screen that way :D
13:30:26  * andythenorth tried it
13:30:28  <andythenorth> didn’t work :(
13:30:32  <TrueBrain> awh :(
13:30:51  <andythenorth> all that happened is everything went weird and hard to read
13:30:54  <andythenorth> is that a bug?
13:31:07  <andythenorth> like, the writing went vertically
13:31:11  <andythenorth> is that expected?
13:31:14  <TrueBrain> wuth?! Omg :(
13:31:17  <TrueBrain> your screen is broken!
13:31:33  <wito> You could try setting the rotation settings as well.
13:31:38  <wito> Set the screen to vertical.
13:32:02  <wito> I don't know how well OpenTTD would actually work at 1080x1920, but it's worth a shot.
13:32:06  <andythenorth> ha
13:32:12  <andythenorth> I don’t have that setting :P
13:32:14  <TrueBrain> as well as it works at 1920x1080 :)
13:32:59  <andythenorth> hmm, where are vehicle physics, or what should I search for?
13:33:08  * andythenorth thinks RVs have broken physics somehow
13:33:48  <TrueBrain> all HTTP should be restored now
13:33:53  <TrueBrain> only 7 minutes, dammit
13:33:56  <TrueBrain> I had 3 more minutes
13:34:33  <TrueBrain> I will have to do the same for all TCP/IP connections later today, but lets first take a break :)
13:34:45  <andythenorth> @seen Terkhen
13:34:45  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Terkhen was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 57 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Terkhen> hello
13:34:50  <TrueBrain> its funny, all information is now received by MachA, forwarded to MachB to be processed, and then returned to MachA :D
13:34:52  <andythenorth> oh he’s in the channel :)
13:34:53  <TrueBrain> I love networking :)
13:35:03  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: what could go wrong? o_O
13:35:04  <andythenorth> nothing
13:35:32  <TrueBrain> I don't expect any issues with that move
13:35:45  <TrueBrain> but first I am going to give it some time to make sure nothing is broken as it is now :)
14:06:05  <andythenorth> does double-click on title bar do anything?
14:06:11  *** gelignite [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:06:11  <andythenorth> and could it windowshade? o_O
14:08:03  <frosch123> scrollwheel does shade iirc
14:09:01  <andythenorth> so it does :)
14:09:02  <andythenorth> thanks
14:09:08  <andythenorth> "free features”
14:09:33  <andythenorth> hmm, could station building UI have shade?
14:10:04  <frosch123> it's a picker window, so i guess no
14:11:33  <andythenorth> nvm :P
14:11:40  * andythenorth will keep dragging that window around
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14:56:11  <planetmaker> building FIRS tags seems to work again
14:57:10  <andythenorth> yay
14:57:41  <andythenorth> hmm
14:58:52  <andythenorth> so what is the correct method to get cdist to assign more cargo to a destination?
15:01:47  <andythenorth> maybe I have to spam another train at the route
15:03:49  <andythenorth> hmm no, the new train just sits waiting
15:04:55  <andythenorth> maybe if I force it to run the route?
15:09:29  <andythenorth> nah
15:10:04  <andythenorth> maybe I don’t use full load?
15:12:02  <andythenorth> nah
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15:18:04  <andythenorth> hmm
15:18:07  <andythenorth> well
15:18:12  <andythenorth> I am out of ideas :P
15:21:01  <andythenorth> what am I doing wrong?
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15:26:45  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: The demand is calculated independently of capacity. That's the whole point of it.
15:27:03  <andythenorth> yay fonsinchen :)
15:27:08  <andythenorth> hi
15:27:12  <fonsinchen> If you disable influence of distance zou should get roughly equal demand for each destination
15:27:20  <fonsinchen> Not for each intermediate hop, though.
15:27:39  <fonsinchen> roughly means subject to accuracy
15:27:51  <fonsinchen> hi
15:28:05  <andythenorth> I have accuracy at 64, is that relatively high or low?
15:28:24  <andythenorth> also I have 1 day for recalculation, recalculating every 2 days, with distance at 0%
15:28:57  <fonsinchen> It will try to slice every supply into 64 chunks and distribute each of them independently (I think)
15:29:37  <fonsinchen> So if you have a supply of 64k it can be 1k off for some destination.
15:29:43  <andythenorth> hmm
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15:30:24  <andythenorth> maybe that’s a clue
15:30:45  <fonsinchen> but you better check demands.cpp and mcf.cpp for the details
15:31:05  <fonsinchen> I think I'm using the accuracy in multiple places and that may not be the whole story
15:31:30  <fonsinchen> also there is of course a minimum amount of 1 for each chunk.
15:31:48  <fonsinchen> Which in fact introduces more inaccuracy for small supplies.
15:32:50  <andythenorth> so the problem I have: secondary industry with station A, and two identical trains, one running A-B, the other running A-C, both with full-load orders.  Distances A-B and A-C are near enough equal.  Route A-C simply gets no cargo assigned at all, the planned view shows none is ever planned.  But the link graph shows a link set up, unused.
15:33:04  <andythenorth> I have seen this numerous times now in games
15:33:13  <andythenorth> but *only* at secondary industries, not at primary
15:33:25  <fonsinchen> Show me a savegame and I can probably tell you the reason.
15:33:34  <andythenorth> yeah, my savegame has unreleased grfs :(
15:33:39  <andythenorth> but I could zip them happily?
15:33:45  <fonsinchen> fine with me
15:34:28  <andythenorth> wondering if this is somehow due to the way secondary industries move cargo to the station
15:34:36  * andythenorth zips the save anyway
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15:41:39  <andythenorth> fonsinchen:
15:41:52  <andythenorth> there are two unreleased grfs in there, everything else is on bananas
15:42:00  * andythenorth hopes he got the right versions :P
15:44:26  <andythenorth> the station that is puzzling me is Sillyweed Valley, it won’t plan any cargo for Riddleweed
15:45:00  <andythenorth> I added a train, ran both the trains the length of the route, removed full load orders, ran the trains again, put the full load orders back
15:45:02  <fonsinchen> It should find grfs if I put them in .openttd/newgrf, right? ...
15:45:06  <andythenorth> should work
15:45:14  <andythenorth> I also waited plenty of time for the linkgraph to update
15:45:48  <andythenorth> there was some cargo routed in 1904 or so on that route, because the train had profit and the link graph showed green for ’saturated’
15:47:14  <andythenorth> umm
15:47:22  <andythenorth> EKeyboardAndChair?
15:47:43  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: ^ stupid user
15:48:33  * fonsinchen got it loaded now
15:48:46  <andythenorth> it’s goods
15:48:50  <andythenorth> and the town stopped accepting
15:49:04  <andythenorth> and I didn’t check that because the issue looked like one I swear I’ve seen before
15:49:29  <andythenorth> “is it plugged in?” :(
15:49:36  <fonsinchen> Yes, riddleweed doesn't accept goods
15:50:06  <andythenorth> ok I built a hardware store, it should accept now
15:50:45  * andythenorth slightly ashamed :|
15:51:25  <fonsinchen> well, that was easy
15:51:30  <andythenorth> sorry :P
15:56:33  <andythenorth> fonsinchen: perhaps you could unconfuse me though: the calculations for vehicle capacity (e.g. in LinkRefresher() etc), are they used to assign cargo, or just to show the edge saturation in the linkgraph?
15:57:25  <andythenorth> I would like to be able to update the wiki page, because it seems that there is confusion about whether cdist actually assigns cargo in proportion to capacity, or not
16:08:29  <andythenorth> AIUI, if distance effect is 0%, for asymmetric distributiion, the cargo will be routed in the ratio 1/number-of-destinations, with a bit of noise and inaccuracy
16:08:41  <andythenorth> but I don’t know if that is correct
16:53:06  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: Cargodist should not take capacity into account when calculating the demands. That's where it determines how much cargo should go to which destination
16:54:11  <fonsinchen> When it calculates the flows it tries to satisfy all the demands equally well. That is a second source of inaccuracy, so you might not get a perfect 1/n or even a fixed error of at most accuracy
16:54:38  <fonsinchen> Errors can happen when calculating the demands and when assigning the flows, but the capacity should not play a systematic role there.
16:55:26  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: The link refresher IIRC is for determining the capacity in the first place
16:58:20  <fonsinchen> Yes, given a vehicle consist with an order list and a current position the LinkRefresher will figure out which links the consist is going to visit in the future and set the capacities on those links to something greater than 0
16:58:39  <fonsinchen> So that if it is waiting for full load it doesn't wait forever.
17:01:37  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: That is link capacity, not vehicle capacity.
17:03:10  <fonsinchen> And when it assigns the flows, it will of course try to route the predetermined demand across links with enough capacity. So it does take capacity into account there, but it won't change the demand when doing so. It will rather overload the links.
17:04:04  <fonsinchen> That's what I meant when I said "Not for each intermediate hop" above.
17:32:02  <andythenorth> thanks :)
17:32:18  <andythenorth> and if distance effect is 0%, does anything else affect demand for asymmetric routing?
17:32:22  <andythenorth> or is it all flat?
17:33:36  <fonsinchen> It should be flat, except for inaccuracy.
17:34:00  <andythenorth> I will try and update the wiki page to explain this :)
17:34:19  <fonsinchen> I removed that effect where it counted the acceptance number, by popular demand...
17:34:22  <andythenorth> there is small repetitive FUD that link capacity somehow influences demand and routing
17:34:36  <andythenorth> maybe for historical reasons, or misunderstanding
17:35:03  <fonsinchen> I've always made very clear that this is not what I want to happen
17:35:15  <fonsinchen> Well, routing of course
17:35:18  <fonsinchen> but not demand
17:36:06  <fonsinchen> And there may be a bug somewhere, but in order to figure that out I need a savegame showing the behavior
17:36:18  <andythenorth> ok, so yes, my savegame earlier was useless :)
17:36:46  <andythenorth> I will try and reproduce the issue in this game
17:36:58  <andythenorth> or it’s a non-issue
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18:18:30  * andythenorth thinking how to update
18:21:11  <andythenorth> so given routes A-B-C and A-D-C, link capacity would influence the ratio that cargo is routed via B or D.  But the capacity on those links would not in any way affect how much cargo is routed A-E.  The only factor on proportion of cargo with final destination as C and E is demand (currently modulated only by distance).  Is this accurate, if I write a better version of it in the wiki?
18:25:09  <peter1138> ospf or bgp
18:29:11  <andythenorth> “count-to-infinity problem” :P
18:29:25  * andythenorth just learnt more about networking routing than he needed
18:29:48  <frosch123> [20:29] <andythenorth> “count-to-infinity problem” :P <- you are lucky if it is countable? :p
18:29:54  <andythenorth> oh no
18:30:02  <andythenorth> there is an equivalent of Godwin’s law in our office
18:30:20  <andythenorth> which states that if any developers start discussing countable and uncountable infinitity
18:30:25  <andythenorth> everyone else can go home
18:36:31  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: Pretty much correct if you're talking about asymmetric.
18:36:48  <fonsinchen> Otherwise the supply on the other side also influences demand.
18:36:49  <andythenorth> yup I am
18:37:37  * andythenorth wonders if there _should_ be a split on the distance-demand factor, handling pax/mail separately from other cargos
18:38:58  <fonsinchen> Does anyone but andythenorth use cargodist for anything but pax and mail?
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18:39:06  <fonsinchen> ;)
18:41:13  <fonsinchen> If you look at the network servers you'll note that it seems to be pretty popular to use asymmetric for pax and mail. I'm always wondering why.
18:41:54  <andythenorth> misunderstandings?
18:42:23  <andythenorth> not using cdist is silly imo :P
18:42:36  <andythenorth> how can we make it better if we don’t use it?
18:42:41  * andythenorth back in his box
18:42:52  <fonsinchen> Misunderstandings on several servers for months?
18:42:56  <frosch123> imigration is popular right now, so they likely consider asymmetric more realistic :p
18:43:50  <fonsinchen> frosch123 said he R word. Kick him!
18:43:59  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: ^
18:44:03  <fonsinchen> s/he/teh
18:44:19  <frosch123> what? it's too early in the year to use the S word!
18:44:24  <andythenorth> I haven’t tried asymmetric for pax, wouldn’t have considered it
18:44:37  <frosch123> also, it's belugas' job :)
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18:45:41  * andythenorth wonders what difference symmetric pax will make
18:45:49  <andythenorth> small towns might get more incoming cargo than currently
18:46:00  <andythenorth> perhaps stations will block less with pax for large cities
18:47:07  <andythenorth> “but it’s unrealistic” :P
18:48:12  * andythenorth wonders wtf the demand will look like for asymmetric pax in a highly-connected pax network
18:48:21  <fonsinchen> peter1138: The interesting thing about the classical routing algorithms is that they are inherently distributed. They expect each node to have its own CPU and nobody to have global knowledge.
18:48:24  <andythenorth> with distance currently set to 0
18:48:36  <fonsinchen> In openttd we have only one CPU and global knowledge
18:49:31  * andythenorth waits for ‘planned’ to update at some stations in cities
18:49:40  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: All stations get the same amount of pax, no matter if they are in the center of a city or in a small village.
18:50:05  <fonsinchen> Maybe that's the whole point, relaxing the situation of bus stops in city centers.
18:50:20  <andythenorth> so ‘planned’ values should be similar for all destinations with asymmetric + distance 0?
18:50:24  * andythenorth testing
18:50:33  <fonsinchen> yes
18:57:22  <TrueBrain> @kick andythenorth begging for a kick; sure thing :D
18:57:22  *** andythenorth was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [begging for a kick; sure thing :D]
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18:57:41  <andythenorth> such lol
18:57:49  <TrueBrain> or did I misunderstand the conversation? :D :D :P
18:58:01  <TrueBrain> <3 andy
19:00:12  <andythenorth> I see no misunderstanding here
19:00:20  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what did you expect from an admistrator?
19:00:41  <frosch123> (i am bad with english puns, so i made a german)
19:01:11  <frosch123> uhm, i meant to direct that to andy :p
19:01:41  <andythenorth> it’s ok, it’s all net the same
19:01:43  <TrueBrain> I think you failed there :D
19:01:49  <frosch123> yup :)
19:01:50  <andythenorth> I got kicked, you messaged the wrong person
19:01:54  <andythenorth> balances
19:01:58  <andythenorth> ying-yang
19:02:23  <TrueBrain> :D
19:03:01  <frosch123> for some reason i was only kicked once from this channel. and in that case i kicked myself  while trying to outsmart glx' script by attaching NBSP to banned words, and the script being smarter :)
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19:03:18  <glx> hehe
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19:06:07  <TrueBrain> you know that is easily fixed right?
19:06:19  <TrueBrain> or was that an open invite?
19:07:27  <andythenorth> eh, so symmetric pax, the planned amounts have levelled now
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19:07:34  * andythenorth watches the beast to see what it does next
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19:08:33  <cursarion> hmm
19:08:47  <cursarion> does 1.5.2 support a custom number for river generation?
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19:09:10  <cursarion> I sometimes find (in 1.5.0) that the "Few" option produces too many rivers for my taste
19:09:13  <andythenorth> * asymmetric pax
19:09:19  <cursarion> and that's the lowest option above None
19:09:24  <andythenorth> eh, all my pax trams are suddenly making money now
19:09:27  <andythenorth> which makes sense
19:09:40  <Wolf01> cursarion, there are only 2 options: none and insane
19:09:49  <andythenorth> they were routed to outlying stations which only supply 8 pax or so / month
19:09:57  <andythenorth> feeding the central station in the sity
19:09:59  <andythenorth> city *
19:10:12  <andythenorth> symmetric was killing them
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19:12:16  <cursarion> Wolf01: pff
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19:13:55  <frosch123> cursarion: increase roughness
19:16:03  <cursarion> what exactly does it to, besides that?
19:16:26  <frosch123> it should add more slopes and make it harder to spawn rivers
19:16:44  <Wolf01> also it makes harder to build everything
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19:19:50  <andythenorth> cargo flow overlay is neat
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19:23:00  <andythenorth> eh, but where do all these pax go?
19:23:09  <andythenorth> I’m dropping them off, and they just disappear
19:23:18  <andythenorth> 80 arrive, only 2 get back on
19:24:11  <frosch123> they were on a bicycle vacation, and used the train home because it started raining
19:24:23  <andythenorth> good answer
19:24:42  <andythenorth> eh symmetric / asymmetric pax
19:24:47  <andythenorth> it’s tomato / tomato
19:24:51  <andythenorth> or tomato / potato
19:24:53  <andythenorth> :P
19:25:16  <andythenorth> one makes low-population towns harder to serve economically
19:25:27  <andythenorth> the other has a weird disconnect with the R word
19:25:36  <frosch123> we are still waiting for tb to make a "tomato" feature
19:26:13  <frosch123> you can't imagine how hard we tried to find a name for gamescripts, that could be abbreviated to tomato :)
19:26:27  <andythenorth> ha
19:26:47  <Wolf01> try with ketchup
19:27:28  <frosch123> i am not a ketchup fan
19:29:48  <andythenorth> valid reason for a kick
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19:46:06  * andythenorth sets mail to asymmetric
19:46:13  <andythenorth> lots of spam by post :P
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20:30:38  <TrueBrain> lol @ tomato :D
20:30:45  <TrueBrain> (a bit slow, but meh :P)
20:37:34  <peter1138> bah
20:41:19  <andythenorth> yes
20:46:36  <peter1138> now i really don't know what to get
20:49:19  <TrueBrain> Bitcoin as ingame currency ...
20:49:32  <TrueBrain> every day of gametime the exchange rate changes?
20:49:34  <TrueBrain> :D
20:49:47  <TrueBrain> how will you pay up till 20.. 14?
20:49:57  <TrueBrain> (random forum threads)
20:50:45  * andythenorth saw them
20:50:57  <andythenorth> specials
20:51:03  <Xaroth|Work> lol
20:54:28  <peter1138> dare i look
20:56:33  <Xaroth|Work> I'm amazed you don't already have a patch for that, peter1138
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20:58:20  <andythenorth> he lost it
21:02:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, we could introduce fractional exchange rates
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21:02:47  <Eddi|zuHause> since it is only for display purposes, it could even use floats
21:04:24  <Eddi|zuHause> you just need to adapt all the display routines for a decimal value, and devise a system of determining how many digits to display
21:05:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (the latter could also be useful for currently really big numbers, honestly)
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23:34:40  <Wolf01> 'night
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