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00:02:34 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:03:59 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has joined #openttd 00:05:39 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-172.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 00:39:02 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 00:50:33 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 00:50:56 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [] 00:51:15 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 01:17:43 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-172.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:29 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 02:06:47 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-82-143.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:26 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-82-143.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 02:21:39 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:00:07 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 03:00:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 03:06:39 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:13:09 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 03:47:50 *** Unknown [~oftc-webi@CPEbc4dfb49dbf3-CMbc4dfb49dbf0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 03:52:58 *** titilambert [~titilambe@titilambert.org] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 03:55:53 *** Unknown [~oftc-webi@CPEbc4dfb49dbf3-CMbc4dfb49dbf0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:31:24 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA22B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67E79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:03:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:04:35 <andythenorth> lol wut? 06:12:33 <andythenorth> also musa doesnât run under python 3 06:12:47 <andythenorth> but nmlc requires python 3 06:18:39 <V453000> :D 06:25:12 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC67E79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:25:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67E79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:12 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:23 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:30:55 <andythenorth> FIRS had an embarassing bug 06:30:58 <andythenorth> but nobody noticed 06:31:02 <andythenorth> so thatâs ok 06:38:19 * edeca throws more cheese at andythenorth 06:42:55 *** Pikka [~Octomom@c114-77-161-48.fitzg3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:47:09 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:12:31 <andythenorth> what ho Pikka 07:15:56 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:21:19 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d086daf.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 07:21:39 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 07:23:05 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:25:49 <Pikka> bonjour 07:26:21 <Pikka> also, silly interurbans :) 07:37:13 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:13:26 <andythenorth> I replaced it with box cab anyway 08:13:31 <andythenorth> silly interurbans 08:13:34 <andythenorth> should be a tramz 08:16:03 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:22:31 <andythenorth> NARS 2.5.1 is âUltimate NARSâ imo 08:22:46 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:28:57 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 08:34:42 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 08:40:07 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:42:11 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has joined #openttd 08:42:47 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97B8CD4.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:08:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:12:02 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 09:13:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:16:10 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:17:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 09:22:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:16:17 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:23:00 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:26:16 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 10:32:14 <wito> Minimum profit of individual trains: No longer a useful metric in the face bigger maps (transport routes taking over a year) and heavy use of cargo transfers? 10:33:11 <peter1138> nothing forces you to take long routes :p 10:34:38 <V453000> if anything, the game motivates you to have all vehicles turn some profit every year, which means if a vehicle has too long path and cannot do that yearly, it does not show in your score 10:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> wito: have a station halfway through, and use "transfer and load" on it 10:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't help with the return trip, though 10:35:59 <wito> Right. 10:36:32 <wito> Pitch: Profit for vehicles that share orders are averaged out over them. 10:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> every possible solution has also some drawbacks 10:37:20 <wito> So if you have a long transport line with lots of vehicles, that take over a yearyou get scored on the average profit instead of the instance profit. 10:38:43 <wito> The drawback in this case being? 10:38:59 <wito> I'm not saying there aren't any, I just can't see any on the spot. 10:40:24 <Eddi|zuHause> for example, a train may always be following another train, so the first train gets all the cargo, and the second train nothing, then you won't get a warning that the second train never makes any money 10:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> like, when you didn't put "full load" or something 10:41:26 <wito> Hmm. 10:41:30 <wito> Good point. 10:42:13 <wito> Although the current warning could be split into two: One for the whole group operating at a loss, and one for huge discrepancies between trains. 10:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, any metric you could come up with has a set of problems it won't be able to detect 10:42:33 <wito> Like: "Train 1 has less than 10 % of the income of Train 2" 10:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> like, pay programmers by how many lines of code they produce 10:43:08 <wito> But yeah, that<s true. 10:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> can't detect that people are just checking in garbage code, instead of figuring out the best way to do things 10:46:19 <wito> There's always the possibility of having it as an option, tho' 10:46:33 <wito> Give people enough rope to hang themselves with and all that. \;) 10:46:55 <wito> Feel confident that you can remember Wait until Full? Turn on averaging for better scoring. 10:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the best suggestion i heard about the issue was that you can set up for each vehicle that you want to get profit warning over a 1/2/4 year period 10:54:19 <wito> Well, that doesn't really help, tho'. 10:54:39 <wito> Unless the detailed scoring can also be set up for 1/2/4 year periods in terms of profit. 10:54:48 <wito> Detailed Performance Rating* 10:56:42 *** Pulec [~pulec@2a01:4f8:110:1463:127::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:58:02 *** Pulec [~pulec@78.46.49.59] has joined #openttd 11:16:24 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:17:40 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:23:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:24:34 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:13:02 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:14:03 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:20:10 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:46 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:23:07 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:33:21 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> potential addiction warning: http://david-peter.de/cube-composer/ 12:41:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:42:04 <V453000> 0_0 12:42:35 <andythenorth> o_O 12:42:36 <andythenorth> ? 12:42:48 <V453000> I have been captured by cubez 12:43:11 <andythenorth> the game? 12:43:18 <V453000> yes 12:43:42 <andythenorth> hmm 12:43:47 * andythenorth needs a new game... 12:43:49 <andythenorth> but ugh, steam 12:44:25 <V453000> factorio on steam soon :P 12:46:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i posted one 5 seconds before you joined 12:47:12 <V453000> o 12:47:15 <V453000> http://david-peter.de/cube-composer/ 12:54:57 <andythenorth> thatâs a different cubez :P 12:55:01 <andythenorth> not the zombie game 12:58:05 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 12:58:59 <andythenorth> hmm 12:59:04 <andythenorth> that will be my afternoon then 13:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> took me about half an hour through 13:04:36 <andythenorth> I am level 2.2 13:04:47 <andythenorth> Iâll finish it later :P 13:04:51 * andythenorth must to work 13:04:57 <andythenorth> these tickets donât invalidate themselves 13:05:46 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 13:11:35 <V453000> 3.x is just WTF 13:11:42 <V453000> I understand the +-1 13:11:44 <V453000> but the rest... 13:11:50 <V453000> binary shit :D 13:13:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just the numbers 0 to 7, how hard can it be? 13:15:04 <V453000> I dont see that in it 13:16:39 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:18:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host15-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 13:20:31 <Wolf01> op/ 13:20:38 <Wolf01> mmm 13:20:49 <Wolf01> what's that thing on 13:21:10 <Wolf01> the side of my head 13:21:24 <Wolf01> (could not decide if left or right :P) 13:23:32 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:26:27 <Wolf01> mmh train fever update 13:30:13 <andythenorth> itâs fun that the some of the transforms are order-independent 13:30:20 * andythenorth is stuck at 2.3 13:30:23 <andythenorth> and cba 13:30:58 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 13:32:23 <andythenorth> hmm won by accident 13:32:25 <andythenorth> that is bad 13:32:32 <andythenorth> no skills :P 13:36:55 <Pikka> oops 13:36:58 *** Pikka [~Octomom@c114-77-161-48.fitzg3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:28 <andythenorth> go to bed pikka's 13:39:21 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:49:54 <andythenorth> eh, are farms supposed to be prospected for (if prospecting is enabled)? 13:51:09 <planetmaker> sure 13:51:20 <planetmaker> you want to build them on fertile soil 13:51:30 <planetmaker> (besides they're primary industries) 13:51:36 <andythenorth> I should fix FIRS then :P 13:52:45 * andythenorth fixed 14:03:59 <dlhero> well it kinda happens right now as they seem to appear clustered 14:05:34 <andythenorth> ? 14:06:02 <andythenorth> they are broken in the current release and canât be prospected for 14:06:31 <dlhero> I've never used that tbh. 14:08:00 <dlhero> I just made the comment, that in my current maps farms appear to be clustered together 14:08:26 <dlhero> so it kind of makes sense since they need fertile soil :P 14:10:54 <andythenorth> they do cluster ;) 14:13:56 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 14:16:45 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:18:47 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 14:23:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:45:42 *** alluke [~3e4eedab@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:47:43 *** oskari892 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 14:47:58 <alluke> those egrvts trailers distract me so much 14:48:08 <andythenorth> ? 14:48:16 <alluke> the axles are in the rear end 14:48:23 <alluke> meaning huge load on the tow hitch 14:48:36 <alluke> what was zephyris thinking 14:50:10 <andythenorth> heâs not a truck nerd 14:50:29 <alluke> i can see that 14:53:50 <alluke> plus the trailers wont be able to get over any obstacles 14:53:57 <alluke> they run out of ground clearance 15:01:17 <peter1138> are they that badly out of place|? 15:01:31 <peter1138> didn't look to bad to me, for a tiny image 15:01:34 <peter1138> +o 15:11:42 <andythenorth> all of my trucks launch themselves in the air 15:11:45 <andythenorth> when going down slopes 15:11:48 <andythenorth> shocking behaviour 15:12:11 <alluke> ottds fault :P 15:12:58 <peter1138> bad offsets 15:13:47 <andythenorth> BAD FEATURE 15:34:53 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 15:38:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19EE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:42:23 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 15:42:55 <alluke> gotta love the map generator https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1004368/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva%202015-09-15%20kohteessa%2018.38.58.png 15:49:06 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:49:09 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:03:06 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 16:10:07 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:28 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:20:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BEEE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:23:19 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 16:25:56 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 16:33:22 <alluke> tÀnÀÀn tulee taas hottikset 16:33:26 <peter1138> i prefer to hate it 16:33:56 <andythenorth> Iâm with him 16:34:07 <alluke> doh wrong chat 16:36:11 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 16:40:03 <wito> Did the squirrel map generator ever get implemented? 16:42:21 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 16:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i know of 16:44:23 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 16:48:12 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 16:51:03 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@46-239-220-130.tal.is] has joined #openttd 16:51:04 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-220-130.tal.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:38 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 16:54:24 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:57:04 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 17:01:23 *** alluke [~3e4eedab@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:04:23 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 17:10:31 <wito> Well, the squirrel map generator harness, I mean. 17:10:51 <wito> But yeah, probably not. 17:13:18 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x5d8207fa.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:15:50 * andythenorth has given up grumbling about map generator 17:16:06 <andythenorth> all Iâm saying is, peter1138 had a way to make better heightmaps :P 17:17:50 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@46-239-220-130.tal.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:17 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d086daf.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:25:35 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-220-130.tal.is] has joined #openttd 17:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> wito: if you want to tackle it, i'm sure it's not actually a hard problem, just an elaborate one. way back the map generation GUI was prepared to have more generators, that "just" needs hooking into the squirrel interface, and then some stuff to handle registering squirrel map generators, that can probably be adapted from scripts/AIs, and a bananas extension. 17:36:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d01098a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:45:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27398 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2015-09-15 19:45:08 +0200 ) 17:45:18 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:19 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 1 changes by xiangyigao 17:49:14 <andythenorth> hmm 17:49:18 <andythenorth> canât finish the final cube 17:49:21 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 17:49:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:50:09 <andythenorth> done it :P 17:50:54 * andythenorth should update the cdist wiki page 17:51:08 <andythenorth> now that the important work of finishing cubes is done 17:53:48 <Alberth> rubics cube, or another one? 17:54:16 <andythenorth> cube game Eddi found 17:54:29 <andythenorth> http://david-peter.de/cube-composer/ 17:55:04 <Alberth> ah, voxely thingies 17:55:07 <andythenorth> fonsinchen: I have a single instance of what I think is a minor cdist bug, in 2 savegames (before, after) 17:55:23 <andythenorth> I have only seen it once, I could run the game longer to see if I find it again 17:55:54 <andythenorth> train at a station on a new route, the linkgraph shows an established route, but no cargo is assigned (using station âplannedâ view to check) 17:56:09 <andythenorth> running the train through the full order list caused cargo to be assigned 17:57:00 <andythenorth> it was the 3rd route added to the station, which fits to the pattern of behaviour I *think* Iâve seen for picking up freight cargos with full load orders 17:57:04 <andythenorth> but eh, might be imagined 17:58:38 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7471/cdist-oddity-2.zip 18:04:26 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1814 18:04:27 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 18:11:07 *** Guest1814 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:17 <andythenorth> hmm 18:15:24 <andythenorth> thought I had a consistent repro on that 18:16:05 <andythenorth> replicated at another station, but ran the game three months and cargo was assigned 18:18:06 <andythenorth> ach itâs just latency 18:18:49 <Alberth> usually it is, in my experience 18:20:47 * andythenorth needs to see if running the route really solves the issue 18:20:58 <andythenorth> or if that happened to co-incide with latency catching up 18:28:04 <andythenorth> hmm, looks like it was conincidence 18:28:18 <andythenorth> it seems take ~3 months in my game to update the cargo routing 18:28:25 <andythenorth> the train took about that long to run the route :P 18:28:57 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 18:29:15 <Alberth> I never check such things, I wouldn't know if that is long :) 18:29:54 <frosch123> damn, in this kind of puzzles the difficulties are always reversed 18:30:04 <frosch123> the "hard" ones are easy, and i fail with the "easy" ones :) 18:30:31 <Alberth> I failed to understand the first one even :) 18:30:51 <Alberth> I solved it by one click, but no idea what I did :p 18:31:11 <frosch123> well, you have to try the functions first, before advancing :) 18:33:53 <Alberth> that's what I was doing, but I missed that you have to read the whole text to understand :) 18:34:03 <andythenorth> I got them by dragging random combinations 18:34:14 <andythenorth> which given the number of possible options, should not have worked 18:34:16 <frosch123> done 18:34:21 <frosch123> 30 minutes, is that ok? 18:34:46 <andythenorth> same as Eddi 18:34:55 <andythenorth> took me about the same, guessing 18:35:02 <frosch123> aw, the only comparison that mattered :/ 18:35:27 <andythenorth> itâs the benchmark 18:35:31 <andythenorth> Eddi is the baseline 18:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't sit there with a stopwatch... 18:35:48 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:55 <frosch123> well, i do not quite know what squaring does to binary numbers 18:36:08 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i did 18:36:12 <frosch123> n't either 18:36:32 * andythenorth will now spend the evening testing cdist :( 18:36:47 <andythenorth> wondering if the latency is due to number of stations, or number of routes from a station, or such 18:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there is a linkgraph update interval 18:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> 30 minutes was the time between the link being posted somewhere else, and me saying i was finished. i don't know how long the link stood there before i noticed it 18:41:32 <Alberth> just conclude it works? :) 18:41:39 <Alberth> andy ^ 18:44:27 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:28 <andythenorth> my guess is that the linkgraph update interval is only for the display 18:45:32 <andythenorth> not for cargo routing 18:45:36 <andythenorth> as best as I can understand 18:48:45 <andythenorth> hmm 18:48:54 * andythenorth looks in src/linkgraph again 18:49:57 <frosch123> no, it's the computation 18:50:44 <frosch123> it makes no sense to set the visualisation to faster/slowere compared to the computation 18:51:09 <andythenorth> but the visualisation is faster compared to the computation... 18:51:45 <andythenorth> the link is established immediately in the visualisation, but unused 18:52:08 <andythenorth> whereas cargo isnât assigned for [undetermined period] 18:54:19 <frosch123> the description for "Take xxx days for recalculation of distribution graph" is quite clear to me 18:54:49 <andythenorth> agreed 18:55:03 <andythenorth> but the value of the setting is hard to relate to the behaviour in game 18:55:04 <frosch123> ah, there is another one about update of distribution graph 18:55:15 <andythenorth> there are 2 settings 18:55:45 <andythenorth> I have recalculation at â1 day' 18:55:58 <andythenorth> but it actually takes 3-4 months in game before cargo is assigned to routes 18:56:03 <andythenorth> *at certain stations* 18:56:32 <frosch123> well, you should make the value higher, not lower :) 18:57:04 <frosch123> set "days for recalculation of distribution graph" to twice the roundabout-time of your longest timetable, and everything should be fine 18:57:57 <frosch123> hmm, otoh, not sure it works like that 18:58:05 <frosch123> i miss another setting 18:58:24 <andythenorth> âThe longer you set it, the longer it takes for the distribution to be updated when routes change" 18:58:29 <andythenorth> is why I set it to lowest possible value 19:01:47 * andythenorth investigates 19:01:52 <wito> andythenorth: I'm not sure that's useful. 19:02:11 <wito> I keep it at default, and I've never experienced it as laggy. 19:02:36 <Wolf01> how can i build a highway under a train bridge in this weird game? (tf) 19:02:57 <wito> tf? 19:03:04 <Wolf01> train fever 19:03:48 *** DDR [~David@S0106001f16aa47bc.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 19:04:31 <wito> Ah. Not familiar. 19:05:30 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:06:22 <wito> Looks pretty sweet. Is it good? 19:06:33 <andythenorth> ok so it takes about 3-4 months before the planned view shows any cargo assigned, in the current game 19:06:38 * andythenorth tries in an empty map 19:14:11 <wito> andythenorth: Also, read the documentation for the settings. 19:14:25 <andythenorth> ? 19:15:06 <wito> What are your settings for the cdist? 19:15:19 <wito> Time taken, days between calculations, accuracy? 19:15:45 <andythenorth> 1, 2, 64 19:16:27 <wito> Oy. 19:16:35 <wito> Okay, I don't think the first one is helping you. 19:16:45 <wito> Try increasing it to the default (16) and see if that helps. 19:17:25 <andythenorth> that is opposed to the documentation 19:17:32 <andythenorth> itâs the documentation Iâm trying to fix btw 19:17:49 <andythenorth> there are two issues, âwhat is cdist supposed to do?â and âimprove the docs, because thereâs FUD around itâ 19:18:09 <wito> The documentation (in-game) seems pretty clear to me. 19:18:25 <andythenorth> âcdist assigns cargo based on capacityâ is achieving the same FUD status as âtowns grow if goods are supplied" 19:19:28 <andythenorth> if itâs clear, why are you recommending I ignore the recommendation for recalculation time? o_O :) 19:19:35 <andythenorth> canât be that clear? o_O 19:21:26 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: The time it takes for the flows to be assigned depends on the number of link graph components in the map and the recalculation interval. 19:21:47 <fonsinchen> If you have tons of point-to-point links it takes longer than if you have a single large network. 19:22:29 <andythenorth> makes sense 19:24:22 <andythenorth> once I have my head clear on it, Iâll update the wiki to remove misconceptions and warn about âgotchasâ 19:24:30 <andythenorth> remove / prevent /s 19:30:15 <andythenorth> ok Iâve narrowed down part of what I thought was buggy 19:31:47 <andythenorth> (testing with 4 stations and 3 trains on an otherwise empty map, to reduce concerns about performance on crowded maps) 19:34:20 <andythenorth> - station planned view updates quickly, as expected, and trains added to an existing station are assigned cargo, as expected 19:34:27 <andythenorth> (testing with a busier map) 19:35:11 <andythenorth> - station planned view updates after ~3 months, and trains added to an existing station (new route) are assigned cargo when that happens 19:35:51 <andythenorth> - but trains added to new (otherwise unserved) stations are assigned cargo immediately, even though none is planned 19:36:06 <andythenorth> which is all probably as expected, but sticks out as inconsistent behaviour 19:36:20 * andythenorth has turned into one of those people with an obsession :( 19:36:36 <andythenorth> next Iâll be saying the scale isnât accurate 19:52:03 <andythenorth> hmm 19:52:32 <andythenorth> that latency probably grows geometrically as routes are built 19:53:37 <andythenorth> that _might_ be the reason why I saw cargo never being assigned to new routes, late in a long game on a well-developed map 19:53:57 <andythenorth> and why building a totally new pickup station would mitigate the behavious 19:54:08 <andythenorth> behaviour * 19:55:50 <edeca> Bah, are there known problems with gasoline stations from ECS? I can't build a road stop that will accept gasoline next to a petrol station. A 1x1 rail station doesn't work either. Larger rail stations work fine. Confused :| 19:56:37 <Taede> does the larger station cover more than one gasoline station perhaps? 19:57:18 <andythenorth> get the question mark icon 19:57:25 <Taede> i'd guess a single petrol station does not accept a full 8/8 gasoline, but instead only 4/8 19:57:26 <andythenorth> and check the tile acceptance on the industry 19:57:36 <Taede> yeah, query tool 19:59:01 <edeca> Will check, thanks :) 19:59:29 <edeca> Nope, square shows 6/8 gasoline acceptance 20:01:17 <andythenorth> how many tiles in the industry? 20:01:28 <V453000> 666 20:02:06 <andythenorth> wot larks 20:08:37 <edeca> andythenorth: The industry is 1x1 petrol station, is that what you mean? 20:08:57 <andythenorth> yup 20:09:13 <andythenorth> tile acceptance is summed for station 20:09:26 <andythenorth> you need at least 8/8 or so 20:09:32 <andythenorth> otherwise no acceptance 20:09:38 <andythenorth> iirc 20:10:10 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: Cargodist likes it if you connect all zour stations for each cargo. 20:10:32 <fonsinchen> Somewhat naturally, I'd say. 20:10:34 <andythenorth> yeah, Iâm wondering if point-point for freight just breaks cdist in a long game 20:10:55 <fonsinchen> It will take longer for new components to get cargo assigned 20:11:06 <andythenorth> in which case âmanualâ would be wiser for freight 20:11:08 <andythenorth> but thatâs a shame 20:11:10 <andythenorth> I like cdist 20:11:10 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:11:42 <fonsinchen> A simple optimization would be to calculate multiple small components in a single job. But I don't have time to implement that right now. 20:11:44 <andythenorth> with distance effect 0%, the only remaining problem for freight transport is this latency 20:11:59 <andythenorth> eh np, thanks for answering at all :) 20:12:49 <fonsinchen> Or schedule multiple small jobs in the same thread or whatever. 20:13:20 <fonsinchen> The point-to-point jobs are quick to calculate so itÀs wasteful to create a new thread for each anyway. 20:13:52 <andythenorth> out of interest, how is the first route from a station assigned? 20:14:27 <andythenorth> because the latency doesnât apply there, cargo is loaded straight away 20:14:36 <fonsinchen> What is a "first route"? Cargodist sees connected components, that is all stations reachable from some station and the links between them. 20:14:58 <andythenorth> case where I build a station, and send the first vehicle to it 20:15:09 <fonsinchen> The components are scheduled for demand and flow calculation one by one 20:15:10 <andythenorth> it always loads ~instantly 20:15:27 <fonsinchen> So if you have only one component it's almost instant 20:15:46 <fonsinchen> if you have 1000 components it takes forever for a change in one to take effect on the link graph 20:16:05 <fonsinchen> (unless you're lucky and it's scheduled next already) 20:16:08 <edeca> andythenorth: Thanks, I think I vaguely understand 20:16:50 <fonsinchen> andythenorth: If you build only point-to-point links each pair of stations with a train between them is a new component. 20:17:10 <edeca> andythenorth: I actually see a second petrol station with 4/8 acceptance in the same town that I missed. I assume they are being summed :) 20:17:13 <fonsinchen> because no other stations are reachable from either. 20:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> edeca: they have to be in the catchment radius of the station 20:18:29 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Yes that makes sense now. Just bizarre as I can't easily deliver gasoline using trucks, but no problems! 20:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> man, this cat suspiciously ogles my Hackepeterbrötchen 20:18:35 <fonsinchen> "one by one" is not entirely correct because you can give it some parallelism by setting the calculation time higher than the interval. 20:19:30 <andythenorth> when the station is previously unserved, what causes the first vehicle to be loaded before the component is updated? 20:19:42 * andythenorth wonders if itâs special case, or side-effect of something else 20:19:50 <fonsinchen> If no plan is available any vehicle will load any cargo 20:20:07 <andythenorth> yeah that explains it completely 20:20:18 <fonsinchen> You can see that in the "waiting" view, it's the "to any station" cargo. 20:20:46 <andythenorth> yup 20:21:09 <andythenorth> thanks 20:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like a mode where it never generates "to any station" cargo... it somewhat poisons initial transfer routes 20:22:01 <andythenorth> Iâd like a mode where it always generates âto any stationâ cargo :) 20:22:11 <andythenorth> 1/(number destinations + 1) 20:22:21 <andythenorth> and a pony 20:22:25 <Eddi|zuHause> we do have that, it's called "manual" :p 20:22:33 <andythenorth> manual is lame 20:23:13 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 20:23:25 <andythenorth> at 0% distance, cdist has some neat side effects for freight 20:23:29 <fonsinchen> Would both be easy to do. Just hook into the function where cargo is delivered to the station and change the next hop selection. 20:23:44 <andythenorth> e.g. side-effects like automatically splitting supplies evenly over the number of destinations 20:23:49 <andythenorth> and so on 20:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: am i understanding you correctly that having lots of small connected components makes the update very slow to react, as opposed to one large connected component (with roughly the same number of stations/connections) 20:24:16 <fonsinchen> Yes 20:25:17 <fonsinchen> Ah, not so easy to do. You'd have to carry a flag in the cargo packets "Drop this if no route available at any station" or "Never assign a next hop anywhere" as the next hop selection is repeated at each station. 20:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the dropping only needs a global flag 20:26:18 <fonsinchen> true 20:27:52 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@a392.ip16.netikka.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 20:28:17 * andythenorth wonders about patching distance effect to apply to some cargos only 20:28:37 *** Flippy [flippy@2a02:25b0:aaaa:5da:349:b7b6:5703:edf0] has quit [Quit: Å el hudrovat o dům dál] 20:28:59 <fonsinchen> it's mostly a UI problem. Where do you put all those settings? 20:29:21 <andythenorth> agreed 20:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause> also, how do you group the cargos? by town effect? by cargo class? by new NewGRF flag? 20:30:15 <andythenorth> I wanted to hard-code the cargos in a local patch to test the effect 20:30:29 * andythenorth reading demands.cpp 20:30:33 * fonsinchen faintly remembers going nuts about that before 20:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been plenty of discussions about that, i'm sure 20:30:59 <andythenorth> overkill 20:31:38 <andythenorth> for what I want, 0% gives nice flat demand for freight 20:31:48 <andythenorth> I just wonder if it makes pax weird 20:33:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you just get even more totally overloaded with passengers 20:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> as they travel larger distances 20:33:40 <fonsinchen> The distance effect is in fact a good thing for most passenger networks. 20:34:01 <andythenorth> eh, the pax overload is because the number delivered per vehicle trip is so much lower compared to default TTD? 20:34:16 <andythenorth> especially because nobody bothers transferring pax, because pax transfers are dumb in default game? 20:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: each hop that one passenger travels, original TTD would have a new passenger for 20:34:36 <fonsinchen> Were the default TTD vehicles larger than the OpenTTD ones? 20:34:45 <andythenorth> nah 20:34:57 <andythenorth> not iirc 20:34:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also, in original you could ignore excess passengers 20:35:01 <andythenorth> yeah 20:35:31 <andythenorth> if I cared enough, I could probably make a house set that dumped pax production right down? 20:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> effectively, if a passenger travels on average 4 hops, you need 4 times the capacity 20:35:46 <fonsinchen> The real point is that the passengers usually transfer more often if they travel larger distnaces 20:36:13 <fonsinchen> (except if you have a rather weird network) 20:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you don't have the capacity and it travels only 3 hops, you don't get paid 20:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but it still blocked 3/4 of your capacity 20:37:13 <Eddi|zuHause> where originally would have paid you for each leg individually 20:37:15 <andythenorth> âprefer local trips' 20:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that is exactly what the distance setting does 20:37:34 <andythenorth> I know :) 20:37:39 * andythenorth just wonders how many players really would need to set the distance effect for non-pax cargo 20:37:46 <andythenorth> really? 20:37:49 <andythenorth> really really? 20:38:23 <andythenorth> flat demand for all cargos except pax, and rename the setting slightly? 20:38:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you could try that 20:39:06 <andythenorth> âbut players will complainâ :) 20:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> add a setting: "distance only affects passengers" 20:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (include tourists, etc) 20:39:43 <andythenorth> yeah it has to be by class I think 20:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> would make a possibly interesting case for mail distribution, as it will go much further than the passengers 20:41:15 <andythenorth> there should be a special profile for mail 20:41:35 <andythenorth> modelling junk mail :P 20:41:50 <andythenorth> most houses receive *far* more mail than they send :P 20:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i talked about this before, there should be an incentive for actually distributing mail, goods, food among the city, instead of just dropping it somewhere 20:42:08 <andythenorth> hmm 20:42:13 <andythenorth> even Busy Bee doesnât do that 20:42:30 <andythenorth> it provides mail goals, but to the city, not within the city 20:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> currently, that hurts your profits rather than improve things 20:42:43 <andythenorth> although I donât know how CargoMonitor works, maybe it counts within the city 20:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not 20:44:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: whatâs the upside to distributing within the city? Why better gameplay? 20:44:53 <wito> It gives trucks more purpose? 20:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there currently isn't one, that's the point. 20:45:58 *** Pulec [~pulec@78.46.49.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:46:13 <andythenorth> other than a town growth goal, what would force it? 20:46:27 <andythenorth> cdist already does it with distance, if enabled 20:47:55 <fonsinchen> good night 20:49:22 <andythenorth> bye fonsinchen :) 20:51:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d01098a.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:52:39 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:54:00 <andythenorth> hmm 20:54:12 <andythenorth> what if pax generation was conditional? 20:54:30 <andythenorth> and gave pax pre-computed destinations 20:54:47 <andythenorth> they are only *moved to station* if the destination is in the linkgraph 20:55:34 <andythenorth> after that itâs all just cdist flow-managed, the âdestinationâ is seen as statistical and ignored 20:56:02 <andythenorth> then 50% or so of pax could favour same town, or even quadrants of the town 20:56:02 *** Pulec [~pulec@78.46.49.59] has joined #openttd 20:56:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: dunno, trying to think how to achieve your goal ^ 20:56:38 <andythenorth> if you donât serve the map zone, you donât get passengers generated 20:57:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: YACD did that 20:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it dropped cargo if the destination wasn't reachable 20:57:18 <andythenorth> yeah, but YACD had performance problems with routing... 20:57:31 <andythenorth> allegedly 20:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you can simulate something by maintaining a figure about how much of the world you connected with your network 20:58:04 <andythenorth> all I knew was that YACD was a lot of fun, and I needed to keep my laptop plugged in :P 20:58:08 <andythenorth> but that is a digression 20:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but determining that value is a bit tricky 20:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> if you set that figure as station rating, it would automatically drop a part of the cargo 20:59:23 <andythenorth> I am short of other ideas to incentivise intra-town distribution 20:59:27 <andythenorth> money is boring 20:59:32 <andythenorth> town growth is boring 20:59:53 <andythenorth> two cargo types? âCommutersâ, âTouristsâ? :P 21:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> messing with station rating has problems with other cargos though, as it influences industry closure and stuff 21:01:30 * andythenorth must to bed 21:01:31 <andythenorth> bye 21:01:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:20:02 <edeca> LOL, the opengfx petrol statoin looks like a giant cola can 21:23:43 <Sylf> eh? not the fizzy drink factory in toyland? 21:26:21 <edeca> http://i.imgur.com/HprFqxW.png 21:27:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it probably a use of a wrong baseset sprite 21:28:00 <edeca> Oops! 21:28:05 <Sylf> yeah, that's the graphic for fizzy drink factory. you've been adding and removing industry grf in the game? 21:28:16 <edeca> Sylf: No, nothing has been added or removed after I started the game 21:29:12 <edeca> http://i.imgur.com/9rou1gx.png <- NewGRF list 21:29:32 <edeca> UK Town Set may have broken it perhaps? 21:30:28 <Sylf> what is ECS Industries Addon? 21:30:35 <Sylf> the last item 21:31:18 <edeca> Hm, no idea, I just added everything in my list that was ECS. 21:32:17 <Sylf> it is not a part of George's ECS that I know of 21:32:34 <edeca> No, you are right. I just selected everything in bananas. Thanks for spotting it, will start a new game :) 21:32:52 <Sylf> you have ecs houses, UK houses, TaI houses and TTRS loaded too 21:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ECS houses is redundant if you have TTRS 21:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it just adds the TTRS buildings that are required for the cargo chains 21:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> like the fuel station 21:33:49 <edeca> So leave TTRS and ditch the rest? 21:34:29 <Sylf> you can keep ttrs, uk and tai houses on if you want 21:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the main feature of TaI houses is limited town growth, which doesn't work if you mix it with other house sets 21:34:54 <Sylf> yeah. tai houses is special 21:35:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and UK houses and TaI houses probably contain the same stuff 21:36:01 <edeca> Thanks both :) 21:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i don't think BROS contains anything useful :p 21:37:44 <edeca> I was playing with a bunch last night to find a selection of nice stations 21:39:04 <Sylf> BROS has 3-4 passenger trains that may or may not work 21:39:31 <edeca> Sylf: Do you have a preferred list of grfs? 21:39:31 <Sylf> it's not a station set 21:39:36 <Sylf> no 21:40:16 <Sylf> the useful list changes all the time 21:40:24 <edeca> Interesting, removing those grfs I can't fund a petrol station now, but they still appear in the game so that's fine 21:41:24 <edeca> Yes, the ability to fund a petrol station comes from that weird unofficial ECS grf you noticed. Thanks Sylf 21:43:22 * edeca goes for sleep 21:43:37 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19EE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:18 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:07:57 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6BEEE.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:43 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:10 *** urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Boom!] 22:23:37 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x5d8207fa.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:25:39 *** urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:40:04 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:01:28 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@72.1.195.4] has joined #openttd 23:09:44 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:06 *** Pikka [~Octomom@c114-77-161-48.fitzg3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:23:40 <drac_boy> hi pikka? :) 23:23:57 <Pikka> possibly? 23:24:16 <drac_boy> heh..hows the artist anyway? :) 23:25:19 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:25:32 <Pikka> fine, I suppose. 23:26:53 <drac_boy> seem like you been busy with a lot of graphics these months no? 23:27:52 <Pikka> now and then. and busy with other things too. 23:36:33 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 23:38:56 <drac_boy> heh ok 23:48:16 <Wolf01> 'night 23:48:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]