Log for #openttd on 20th September 2015:
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00:26:33  <Wolf01> 'night
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06:29:23  <ryouma> i am using openttd on debian jessie.  the fonts are too small for me and are not readable.  i tried changing to large_size = 22 in the config file.  where does one set the font size?
06:29:50  <ryouma> note: if there is a gui config, the font is too small to change size there.  i looked in the man page but there was nothing about commadn line options.
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07:20:36  <andythenorth> o/
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07:39:40  <Alberth> hihi
07:40:09  <andythenorth> moin
07:44:40  <planetmaker> moin moin
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07:48:45  <Pikka> o\
07:48:55  <Taede> ello
07:52:01  <andythenorth> is all here
07:52:27  <Pikka> who's all there?
07:54:08  <andythenorth> octonauts
07:54:22  <Pikka> sounds plausible
07:54:30  <andythenorth> sea dragons episode, again
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08:10:44  <andythenorth> 4-8-2 Mountain
08:10:46  <andythenorth> just what I needed
08:12:03  <Alberth> :)
08:16:30  * andythenorth isn’t to blame for this newgrf
08:16:33  <andythenorth> how relaxing
08:19:30  * andythenorth bbl
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09:03:09  <fonsinchen> andythenorth: The demand calculations are not a feature by themselves but a necessary precondition for Cargodist.
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09:38:33  <Wolf01> moin
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10:03:13  <Alberth> o/
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10:58:45  <Alberth> o/
11:01:05  <frosch123> lo
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12:28:25  <_dp_> Hi! Is there any way to stop new vehicles introduction without newgrfs?
12:28:49  <_dp_> Except for starting in 2050
12:30:10  <_dp_> Any way that doesn't involve patching client is fine with me
12:31:28  <frosch123> you can start in year 1
12:31:36  <frosch123> that gives about 1850 years without new vehicles
12:31:46  <frosch123> other than that, i don't think so :)
12:33:26  <Rubidium> set restart_game_year to starting_year + 1, and starting year to a year where no vehicles are introduced
12:34:44  <_dp_> Rubidium, but that would restart server and reset game every year, right?
12:34:45  <Rubidium> e.g. 1940
12:34:54  <frosch123> Alberth: <- add a script to create/update language deifitions from ottd svn
12:36:06  <Rubidium> _dp_: but that wasn't one of your preconditions
12:37:09  <Alberth> frosch123: line 64 creates a list of list, by the looks of it
12:37:34  <Alberth> oh, no it doesn't, it just makes an additional copy
12:37:59  <frosch123> i am not sure how to force conversion from iterateable to list
12:38:01  <Alberth> either remove the "[" and "]", or the "list("  and ")"
12:38:02  <_dp_> programmers...  xD  anyway, that's not what I want :P
12:38:27  <Alberth> either with [] or with list()
12:38:31  <frosch123> _dp_: pausing the game and never unpausing also works :)
12:38:52  <frosch123> ok, removed the list(), kept the []
12:40:14  <_dp_> frosch123, yeye, also closing openttd and starting some other game ;)
12:40:46  <_dp_> without vehicles...
12:41:12  <Alberth> wondering whether open(... "w")  should not be "wt", but not sure
12:42:00  <Alberth> below line 93, you could add a "assert False # Unknown option encountered"  below the 'if'  to catch weird options
12:42:28  <_dp_> joking aside, if I make patch that allows to control vehicle introduction for each company separately with GS, does it have any chances to be included?)
12:42:32  <Alberth> line 96   "Invalid number of parameters"  ?
12:44:06  <Alberth> line 101 check  if not os.path.isdir" target="_blank">os.path.isdir(inputdir)     if not os.path.isdir" target="_blank">os.path.isdir(outputdir)    ?
12:44:25  <frosch123> _dp_: that sounds very overspecific, so unlikely
12:44:37  <Alberth> 116  drop the [ and ]
12:46:21  <Alberth> inputlangs.keys()   is an iterable,  change to  set(inputlangs.keys())
12:47:38  <_dp_> overspecific? It's obviously not just for solving problem in question, but will also allow to do some interesting game modes
12:48:11  <_dp_> that connect vehicle introduction with some company-specific thing like performance or cv
12:49:40  <Flygon__> I would love to see a GRF range enabling games from staring 1AD
12:49:48  <Flygon__> But
12:49:50  *** Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
12:50:06  <Flygon> That'd also mean a lot of other game mechanics being fiddled with too xP
12:50:09  <Flygon> eg. industries, city growth
12:50:21  <Alberth> cities? what's that?
12:50:25  <Rubidium> game scripts are started quite late, well after the first determination of which vehicles to have at the begin of the game. Likewise, there is no guaranteed callback that "acknowledges" that the vehicle may be introduced
12:50:33  <frosch123> _dp_: yes, but you can only reduce the intro date further compared to what the grf offers, and you cannot detect what availabilty-dependencies there are in the grf
12:50:55  <frosch123> _dp_: there are other ideas about gs-controlled technology level
12:51:32  <Rubidium> when a company is started, the available vehicles are determined at client side, so you don't have control over it from a GS
12:52:14  <Rubidium> which means you need to make quite some architectural changes before it's viable
12:52:15  <peter1138> Start in 4000BC, like in Civilization.
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12:53:36  <Alberth> frosch123:   "t" mode is default, so that's fine
12:54:04  <Alberth> otherwise looking fine
12:55:37  <frosch123> _dp_: "overspecific" as in "likely only works with default vehicle"
12:57:45  <_dp_> Well, I kinda know that it's not a very easy path to do, and client-side dates will have to be reworked for sure, but that's fine as long as it is doable.
12:57:55  <_dp_> But interoperability with newgrfs is a good point
13:00:27  <Alberth> it's often a breaking point for many innovations
13:01:00  <Pikka> hmm
13:01:01  <Alberth> or at least, it makes adding innovations a lot more complicated
13:01:15  <Pikka> train fever really is a masterclass in how not to do things
13:01:53  <Alberth> on the other hand, newgrfs do keep the game alive for a large part
13:02:03  <_dp_> Though it depends on GS implementation whether it will work with specific grf set or not, and it's more like a general GS flaw
13:02:11  <Alberth> Pikka: so I am not missing much by not playing it? :)
13:02:22  <_dp_> like there is no citybuilder GS that makes sense with any industry set possible
13:02:23  <Pikka> you're definitely missing something :)
13:03:50  <Alberth> hmm, all the valuable lessons how not to do things, eh?
13:04:01  <Pikka> yes
13:04:23  <Eddi|zuHause> for everything that TF does well, it does something else either terribly or annoying...
13:04:40  <Pikka> I'm still looking for the things it does well
13:04:46  <_dp_> Problem with newgrfs is than like half of players don't know how to get use them)
13:04:49  <Alberth> Pikka: pictures!
13:04:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it looks pretty ;=)
13:05:21  <_dp_> server with grfs is bound to have much less players that one without no matter how stupid game mode latter will run
13:05:51  <Alberth> different audience
13:06:43  <Alberth> sort of casual openttd gamers, if you can even speak of such
13:06:44  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe joining a server with newgrfs shouldn't take more clicks than joining a server without newgrfs
13:07:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (provided the newgrfs are on bananas)
13:07:20  <_dp_> in that sense would be nice if newgrfs were downloaded automatically when you join servers, but I guess that's not possible for other reasons :(
13:07:44  <Pikka> they are/can be, but I think you still need an extra click in there
13:08:05  <Pikka> otherwise the complaints... "why do I have to download 200mb every time I want to join a random server???"
13:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's even 2 or 3 clicks
13:08:49  <_dp_> yeah, and not quite obvious where to click and why
13:09:12  <_dp_> it feels like many people don't even understand that yellow bulb near server means they CAN join it
13:09:42  <Alberth> mostly to get explicit permission for downloading
13:11:26  <frosch123> isn't the problem rather that servers can barely provide information to the server list, except their name?
13:11:40  <frosch123> how do people choose a server anyway?
13:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause> aren't even the yellow servers sorted below the green servers?
13:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> 80% of the players play on 20% of the servers anyway
13:16:51  <_dp_> some people prefer servers that already have some players on it, that's for sure
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13:36:46  <_dp_> frosch123, you mentioned other ideas about gs-controlled technology level, what are they?
13:37:04  <frosch123> do you know zuu's experimental branch?
13:37:15  <_dp_> no
13:37:39  <frosch123> zuu made some experimental branch for direct communication between newgrf industries and gs
13:38:22  <frosch123> <- this is a list of ideas how to extend based on zuu's stuff
13:39:01  <_dp_> but that still require newgrf to do anything?
13:39:11  <frosch123> independent of that, there is an idea of a "technology level" to replace the current "date"
13:39:30  <frosch123> which somewhat also tries to solve the reasoning of the "daylength" patches
13:40:01  <frosch123> _dp_: for the current cases, yes
13:40:38  <frosch123> but i don't think there is any in-depth concept about the technology level
13:40:55  <frosch123> it's just pops up every 3 months in irc
13:41:19  <frosch123> basically everytime someone on the forums wants daylength :p
13:46:32  <_dp_> What I'm trying to do is to setup some game mode that allows fair scoring
13:47:12  <_dp_> I see two ways of doing that. 1) all players start simultaneously 2) game experience doesn't depend on starting date
13:47:53  <_dp_> 1 currently doesn't seem viable except for special event
13:48:06  <_dp_> *events
13:48:33  <_dp_> and 2 usually means starting in 2050
13:48:55  <_dp_> without grfs at least
13:50:55  <_dp_> zuu's branch doesn't seem to bring anything in that regard too as not only in requires newgrf but focuses on grf-gs communication, not extending of possibilities
13:51:31  <frosch123> isn't 2 solved by just giving people a bigger loan at start?
13:52:01  <Alberth> starting in 2050 is a change in game experience in itself
13:52:53  <_dp_> no, even if you give enormous loan that won't balance the vehicle improvement
13:53:10  <_dp_> also with funding enabled there is no such thing as "too big" loan))
13:54:19  <frosch123> well, i think i do not understand what you mean with "fair scoring" then
13:54:54  <_dp_> mb game experience is not a good word to call it, but basically what I mean that people starting later don't receive any advantages
13:55:07  <_dp_> coz if they do it becomes "wait as long as possible then start"
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13:56:49  <frosch123> interesting, i assumed people starting later were at an disadvantage :p
13:57:11  <_dp_> I mean any scoring, or highscores or whateven for goal servers. Like who is fastest to reach 10M CV and so on
13:58:43  <_dp_> they mb be at disadvantage in particular game but for any cross-game score it is an advantage if they manage to finish
13:59:14  <frosch123> aren't all the good routes takes when people join late?
13:59:33  <frosch123> vehicles are more expensive and so on
14:00:41  <_dp_> inflation can be disabled
14:02:19  <_dp_> and good routes.. it depends on settings, it may be that there is no place for two superb player on a map, but for average players can be enough
14:04:41  <_dp_> at least vehicles introduction is the only noticable obstacle for that right now
14:12:27  <_dp_> And there are a lots of ways to improve situation. Easies way is configurable end year instead of fixed 2050 (especially if it won't show stupid perf score table). It even seems to be there at some point but was removed :(
14:13:31  <_dp_> And mysterious "technology level" idk how can that help except for freezing it
14:14:10  <_dp_> Unless it is different for every company which basically breaks down to same per-company vehicle introduction
14:15:22  <_dp_> *breaks up ... too many ttd configuring xD
14:16:59  <Alberth> end year can be easily done with a GS
14:19:57  <_dp_> rly, is there just a end game setting or you mean resetting date manually each year?
14:24:02  <_dp_> Not know much about GS honestly, but I look in commands.cpp and settings*.ini and there doesn't seem to be either command or setting for that :(
14:25:39  <Alberth> it can pause the game
14:26:07  <Alberth>   is what you should read
14:27:21  <_dp_> it's not pause I'm looking for but forever-2050 behaviour
14:28:54  <_dp_> and afaik there is no way for GS to influence clients without either commands or game settings so if smth is not there it is not possible
14:36:23  <Alberth> what's the point? if you play after the last vehicle, and have "vehicles never expire" turned on, all years are the same
14:37:55  <_dp_> last vehicle is lev4 which is the only 2050-or-so-start option I'm talking about
14:38:06  <_dp_> It's playable but I'd like to see more options
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14:41:23  <_dp_> hm, actually, instead of end year, would be better to have option that just completely disables new vehicle introduction
14:41:43  <_dp_> It can be in form "no vehicles after certain year"
14:42:44  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: you can start in 2050 with "vehicles never expire", then you have all vehicles available, not just the last one
14:43:57  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: for anything more specific, you really should use a NewGRF
14:45:11  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, As I said having all vehicles is fine but I'd like to see more options
14:45:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and i said, for more options, there are NewGRFs
14:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and "I want to do what NewGRFs do, just without NewGRFs" is never going to happen
14:50:02  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, and so there are 3 choices "no cross-game scoring", "almost no players on servers", "2050 maglev".
14:51:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't understand the problem you're having...
14:51:58  <_dp_> did you ever play goal servers?
14:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
14:55:39  <_dp_> then it's kinda understandable why you don't :P
14:56:16  <_dp_> basically there is only good way to compare your performance with others - overall highscores on the community website
14:56:37  <_dp_> and it's quite hard to ensure that those scores make any sense
14:57:37  <_dp_> like for at least half of btpro servers they don't xD
15:03:35  <Alberth> numbers have to make sense?   :o
15:03:58  <Alberth> in my experience people believe any number
15:04:31  <Flygon> OpenTTD is barely a scoring game anymore
15:04:48  <Flygon> By this point, it's an open world sandpit where people throw hammers at it until it makes something pretty
15:05:00  <Flygon> Every user in this channel is a Hammer Bro brah
15:05:12  <Flygon> EXCEPT Born_Acorn
15:05:15  <Flygon> He's an Acorn
15:05:17  <Flygon> Born and Bred
15:05:43  <Flygon> And LadyHawk is either definitely a Hawk or inspired by a movie that I've been meaning to see
15:06:16  <Alberth> I wrote BB, a GS that suggests small random transport goals. It tracks progress, and when done, suggests a new goal. People all by themselves believe they should do all goals, even if they don't get a reward or a punishment
15:06:27  <Alberth> or it's a real Lady :p
15:07:07  <Flygon> iunno
15:07:10  <Flygon> Ever seen a LadyHawk?
15:07:22  <Flygon> They're pretty
15:07:22  <Flygon> But
15:07:28  <Flygon> They'll tear your throat out
15:07:36  <Flygon> Because shit, she's a Hawk, not a human
15:08:21  <Alberth> I try not to get that close to hawks, not matter its gender :)
15:08:44  <Flygon> BUT
15:08:49  <Flygon> Would you get close to an Emu?
15:10:39  <_dp_> As if it ever was a scoring game)
15:11:56  <_dp_> But it's the only way of playing ottd I like. I don't play in singleplayer and multiplayer is just as boring imo without any scoring that allows you to compare your performance to others and track you progress
15:12:21  <Flygon> For me...
15:12:29  <Flygon> And this's half the reason I tend to do real world scenarios
15:12:43  <Flygon> It's because I like to see what a fantasy version of a real network'd be
15:12:57  <Flygon> Half the reason I'd love infrastructure sharing... to make MP of this sorta thing practical
15:13:05  <Flygon> Unfortunately, the other problems occour...
15:13:31  <Flygon> Such as needing a daylength patch to prevent managing giant networks from being a problem...
15:13:32  <Flygon> That, and
15:13:51  <Flygon> My friends and I would need Fibre or good HFC lines to ensure non-desyncing on 2048*2048 gaes
15:14:26  <Flygon> Bloody Cookie notifications :D
15:14:39  <Flygon> Why can't they just detect that I'm Aussie and don't give a crap :D
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15:26:36  <_dp_> Didn't try to play openttd for sake of building network for a long time...
15:27:03  <_dp_> For me it's more like a did-it-once-lost-interest-after type of thing, better suited for singleplayer
15:27:22  <_dp_> same goes for minecraft or factorio imo
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15:30:35  <andythenorth> @seen danmack
15:30:35  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 38 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: * DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large fishbot
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15:46:04  <_dp_> Still... goal servers are huge part of openttd MP, it's sad that openttd itself is still so poorly suited for that :(
15:46:35  <andythenorth> eh, this is all wrong
15:46:55  * andythenorth has work that is never done
15:47:02  <andythenorth> _dp_ poorly suited? o_O
15:48:13  <_dp_> andythenorth, I guess you missed cross-game scores discussion before
15:48:34  <_dp_> and there are lots of other things...
15:59:37  <andythenorth> scenarios with baked-in settings + online high score system
16:00:06  <andythenorth> generate a checksum or something on the settings to reduce the number of people who can trivially screw with the scores
16:00:13  <andythenorth> oh you want to do it with servers
16:00:14  <andythenorth> nvm
16:04:17  <_dp_> yeah, I'm trying to configure server, I don't mind doing GS or patching server but I want it to be compatible with vanila clients and not use newgrfs
16:05:17  <_dp_> I'm even willing to do whatever patch to openttd itself that would allow me to do what I want, be it end year, or vehicle introduction disabling (personally I think both are needed)
16:06:16  <_dp_> Or per-company introduction dates which will also allow to do new interesting game modes, not possible now even with newgrfs
16:06:49  <_dp_> As long as it has chances to be included in the game
16:07:34  <andythenorth> you won’t get vehicle modification without newgrfs
16:07:44  <andythenorth> in the official build
16:09:34  <_dp_> none of those are vehicle modification technically
16:10:56  <andythenorth> afaik, GS can’t modify vehicles currently
16:11:04  <andythenorth> although maybe it should be able to
16:11:45  <andythenorth> ottd modifies intro date via randomisation factor, so might be a case for GS to be able to modify it
16:11:54  <andythenorth> maybe
16:12:39  <_dp_> I'd be happy if it could
16:14:40  <_dp_> ttd server itself is heavily restricted in what it can do and so is GS
16:25:40  <andythenorth> why is newgrf problematic?
16:27:03  <_dp_> new people are unlikely to join server with newgrfs
16:27:38  <_dp_> also have enough grfs servers for pro-players already, want something different
16:51:19  <_dp_> Now that I'm thinking of it, it may be better to just ask players to download patched client instead of newgrfs
16:51:48  <_dp_> Doesn't make much difference whether they need to download one weird thing or other xD
16:52:18  <_dp_> Also it feels like most of players on our grf servers use patched client already xD
16:53:46  <sim-al2> If the newGRFS are on BaNanas, it's way easier to download those than try to find a patched clients on a website
16:54:43  <Sylf> patched clients are fine for frequent visitor to a particular server, not so nice to beginners if that's your focus
16:54:50  <_dp_> Yeah, it's a bit of a joke, but still, point is that players that don't know what they need those grfs for are unlikely to download them
16:55:19  <_dp_> And those who know what they need it for can download client as well
16:56:34  <_dp_> Sylf, ofc is not good for beginners, but it's almost as bad for beginners as newgrfs themselves, that's what I'm trying to say
16:57:15  <sim-al2> True, our vanilla server gets more traffic than the newGRF server, but we often have players playing on both
17:08:23  <andythenorth> Alberth, planetmaker how much instructions do I _need_ to put here?
17:08:35  <andythenorth> just a link, or some more about “translations are included in the next release”
17:08:36  <andythenorth> ?
17:08:47  * andythenorth re-writing to feature eints
17:09:29  <Alberth> :o  quite old :p
17:09:37  <andythenorth> yeah, I am embarassed :P
17:11:35  <Alberth> I would expect a description somewhere  only has a link to apply
17:12:06  <andythenorth> yeah
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17:12:28  <andythenorth> hmm if I deeplink this, there’s no indication of how to become a translator
17:13:15  <Alberth>   apparently
17:14:24  * andythenorth wonders if eints needs a refresh
17:14:31  <andythenorth> eh, enough projects already :P
17:17:08  <Alberth>   also exists, you may want to point to the language explanation, and the interface manual
17:20:22  <frosch123> <- just copy the two paragraphs on becoming a translator from there?
17:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf happened to sourceforge? it looks like a phishing website now...
17:20:59  <Rubidium> it is, isn't it?
17:21:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it refuses to do anything before i "accept" their cookie terms, and that takes like 5 minutes?
17:22:42  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is it doing in that time?
17:23:17  <andythenorth> waiting for you to move to github
17:23:42  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: constructing the installer with "applications" especially tailored for you
17:24:19  <andythenorth> "fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git"
17:24:23  *** Supercheese [] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
17:24:23  * andythenorth will never learn
17:24:36  <Eddi|zuHause> alias git hg
17:24:56  <andythenorth> then my git is broken :P
17:25:07  <andythenorth> I’d have to alias only in some subpaths or something
17:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause> make a script that detects what repo you are in
17:25:26  <andythenorth> maybe I should use a hg GUI client
17:25:40  * andythenorth waits for bundles server
17:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but i didn't even get to download a file
17:28:11  <Rubidium> no, for that you first have to guess which of the download buttons is the right one
17:28:34  <andythenorth> ‘click here to install viruses'
17:34:50  <andythenorth> ??
17:34:52  <andythenorth> better ?
17:42:30  <Alberth> bit busy, just a minute
17:44:09  * peter1138 attempts to get macbook going
17:44:39  <Alberth> andythenorth:  with "1" I'd mention the text of the link as well, people tend to overlook it,otherwise fine to me
17:45:16  <andythenorth> peter1138: I thought the charger died or something?
17:45:35  <peter1138> something died
17:45:40  <andythenorth> Alberth: text of the link?
17:46:00  <Alberth> Apply as translator
17:46:03  <peter1138> managed to get it to turn on with the battery removed
17:46:04  <andythenorth> peter1138: they’re quite take-apart-able those ones
17:46:38  <peter1138> anyway it's got a black screen right now
17:46:51  <peter1138> dunno if it's booting or stuck on an fsck or something
17:47:03  <peter1138> iirc the text console doesn't work until it's started X, heh
17:47:09  <peter1138> (grub was visible)
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17:51:50  <andythenorth> FWIW
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18:47:21  <ryouma> where is the setting for making larger fonts?
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18:48:06  <Alberth>
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18:48:27  <ryouma> Alberth: i tried that, but without specifying the font family.  i will try that.  thanks.
18:49:17  <Alberth> sprite font has only one size
18:57:01  <DanMacK> Hey all
18:57:31  <andythenorth> yair
18:57:32  <andythenorth> DanMacK:
18:57:38  <andythenorth> o/
19:03:02  <ryouma> thanks Alberth.  that works now.  but i wonder if it caused another issue.  i click settings or newgrf and i get a dialog box that will not close.  or is that unrelated?
19:03:42  <ryouma> there is a dialog box that flashes for an instant before the main dialog box comes up.  i don't know what it says because it goes away.
19:03:46  <Alberth> sounds unrelated
19:04:11  <Alberth> hmm, maybe it reports something about your font
19:04:37  <Alberth> it's not hiding under the main dialogue?
19:05:27  <ryouma> i figured out the nonclosable ones.  there is a miniscule x on the upper left.
19:05:48  <ryouma> Alberth: it is hiding under main dialog
19:05:49  <ryouma> there is no x
19:06:16  <Alberth> your screen resolution is too high :)
19:06:40  <Alberth> maybe continue reading the faq?
19:07:46  <ryouma> it is grey.  my monitor is 720 and i am running openttd at 720 and my fonts are like 28.  still reading faq.  maybe i should shut up until i have done so.
19:13:41  <ryouma> part of it is that it assumed nobody would ever use the font sizes that i use.  the evanescent dialog box says "scanning grf".
19:13:42  <Alberth> the next thing is about the gui being too small
19:14:21  <Alberth> ah right, that 's just looking for newgrfs, and disappears when done
19:15:47  <Alberth> depending on how many you have, and how big your disk is, it may need some time
19:16:49  <ryouma> i guess i need to download something to get the bigger resolution.  yeah i couldn't get the grf dialog to show becauset he buttons were off the edge of the screen.
19:16:56  <Alberth> the readme explains how it determines the path to search, you may want to change that by moving your openttd.cfg, or add a new one somewhere
19:18:44  <Alberth> gn
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19:23:43  <peter1138> well it never booted
19:23:44  <peter1138> oh well
19:24:23  <peter1138> doesn't turn on unless i press the power button and cmd and/or fn while attaching the power lead
19:24:26  <peter1138> pom te pom
19:25:22  <andythenorth> shenanigans :P
19:25:26  <andythenorth> sorry
19:25:32  <andythenorth> there was a reason it was £0
19:25:34  <peter1138> haha
19:25:39  <peter1138> it did work :S
19:25:55  <andythenorth> oh the mac surprise boot?
19:25:56  <peter1138> apple probably decided it was too old and remote-killed it
19:26:37  * andythenorth wonders if it’s just dead pram battery
19:26:52  <andythenorth> more likely some logic board problem, power management unit
19:27:01  <andythenorth> nvm
19:28:06  <peter1138> my fallback laptop is a 2002 p4 with 512mb ram :p
19:28:40  <andythenorth> those older macs can be frankensteined if you have a few dead ones around :P
19:28:42  <andythenorth> but you don’t
19:28:55  <andythenorth> people in the office have combined wrecks before to get a working one
19:28:59  <andythenorth> but eh, waste of time
19:31:35  <peter1138> that was the best laptop i've ever had ;P
19:41:26  <ryouma> until i figure out the big resolution thing i will run at openttd -r 640x360
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19:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause> you'll probably get window size problems below 640x480
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19:52:52  <andythenorth> hmm
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19:53:00  <andythenorth> pikka’s AI has built all the roads I need
19:53:01  <andythenorth> how handy
19:53:02  <ryouma> Eddi|zuHause: full screen at that resolution seems to work
19:53:28  <glx> some ingame window won't fit
19:54:24  <ryouma> i guess i should try to figure out how to make the grf stuff make things bigger then
20:00:00  <andythenorth> my grain farm is now totally surrounded by houses :P
20:00:32  <peter1138> aren't there some windows which don't fit even on 640x480?
20:01:53  <ryouma> i'm trying to get fonts that are large enough to be useful.  i can do 720, but that makes the icons at the top too small.
20:02:31  <ryouma> can you make them text instead of icons?
20:02:34  <andythenorth> eh just usee 2x gui zoom
20:02:36  <andythenorth> be done with it
20:02:51  <andythenorth> use original baseset, with the proper font, not the crap font
20:03:38  <ryouma> hmm, that's not in the faq.  does that mean setting zoom min to 2?
20:04:45  <NGC3982> I'm trying to run supybot with soap again. The admin port is forwarded, but i still get Connection failed on apconnect
20:04:50  <NGC3982> I can't seem to find any logs
20:04:52  <NGC3982> Suggestions?
20:08:21  <ryouma> andythenorth: i can't find zoom, even though it's probably soiemthing obvious.  it is not in the faq and not in the settings dialog on the resolution where fonts are large enough (although perhaps it is off edge of screen).
20:08:36  <andythenorth> game options -> interface size -> double size
20:08:49  <andythenorth> you’ll also need max zoom in settings to be 2x or 4x
20:09:12  <andythenorth> the double-size UI has _some_ issues, but is substantially better than 1x on modern screens
20:09:13  <andythenorth> imho
20:09:31  <andythenorth> and also you should avoid using any crappy fonts in the game :)
20:10:33  <peter1138> comic sans?
20:11:39  <andythenorth> nah that’s ok
20:11:41  <andythenorth> works well
20:11:44  * NGC3982 gives up for a moment.
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20:16:38  * andythenorth bed
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20:35:30  <_dp_> Hm, just a random thought... Openttd is normally a sandbox-type game but if you set up any specific goal it suddenly becomes a rts %)
20:41:42  <_dp_> or, to be more specific, having a goal with significant time limit makes in rts
20:50:12  *** DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:06:29  <_dp_> Now I wonder, do any of openttd developers actually play it like rts?... ;)
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21:15:18  <peter1138> "Now I wonder, do any of openttd developers actually play it" < fixed that for you
21:17:07  <_dp_> lol
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21:24:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i definitely didn't play a game since i started making a GRF
21:24:51  <mari_kiri> peter1138: Unrelated note, looking at your name, have you played any monkey island games by any chance?
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21:25:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure you find a 1138 in practically everything that George Lucas ever touched
21:25:57  <mari_kiri> Ah, did not know that
21:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause> starting with his first movie, THX 1138
21:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the most famous being "cell block 11 38" in star wars
21:32:00  <__ln__> on some star wars dvd, pressing 1138 in the menu on the remote would start some hidden 5.1 surround test.
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21:32:59  <mari_kiri> Also oh crap I think I missed about 4 ottdcoop games, should get stuff up to date and get back into it sometime
21:33:10  <mari_kiri> But possibly not this week as I have a game to make for mini ludum dare
21:33:23  <mari_kiri> Time flies when you're losing your mind
21:39:36  <peter1138> i must add that george lucas has never touched me
21:43:36  <Wolf01> maybe not physically
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22:11:22  <Demosthenex> so with 1.5.2, what's the best way to keep vehicles separated evenly along a shared route?
22:13:31  *** Wormnest [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:57:42  <Wolf01> 'nighty night
22:57:45  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:12:57  <_dp_> ha, I think I found a way to change vehicle introduction dates)
23:13:23  <_dp_> probably even separately for every company
23:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the game has a bitmask for each vehicle, which company has access to it. the only values used here are: no company, all companies or one single company (preview). but in theory, you can use this to flip each company bit individually, provided that you implement a method to set the bits by GS, and you suppress the builtin vehicle progression
23:44:58  <_dp_> exactly, and (ab)use command for accepting exclusive preview to update clients
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23:56:22  <_dp_> though, does accepting preview cost some extra money?
23:56:40  <Eddi|zuHause> no
23:57:12  <_dp_> perfect xD
23:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause> but it will also probably suppress the message that the engine became available
23:59:44  <_dp_> not a big deal, can probably do one with GS instead

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