Log for #openttd on 26th September 2015:
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00:08:26  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:36:55  <Sylf> Thanks, frosch, for the info, in case you read the log :)
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05:47:59  <andythenorth> o/
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05:50:18  <Alberth> moin
05:57:37  <andythenorth> hi
06:03:48  <Zyme> I downloaded this client and I want to run a private server with that exact pack/version  on Linux. any pointers?
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06:10:47  <andythenorth> “Likelihood of selecting town cargos as a goal” <- does that also make it more likely that industries producing town cargos are chosen as destination?
06:11:06  * andythenorth wondering why BB keeps choosing the same textile mill and sugar refinery and grain mill over and again
06:17:21  <andythenorth> probably just random
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06:21:42  <Alberth> random within limits
06:22:37  <Alberth> Zyme: nothing on our wiki?  Don't know how reddit thing is different, perhaps they hacked the server?
06:23:20  * andythenorth looks for his BB repo
06:23:26  <Alberth> andy, there is an upper and lower limit on distance, bigger or smaller distances get a smaller chance to be picked.
06:24:22  <andythenorth> the repeating goals are starting to annoy me enough that I might _actually_ try and fix it :P
06:24:35  <Alberth> ok :)
06:26:43  <andythenorth> can GS be swapped on a running game?
06:28:54  <Zyme> Alberth: there is patches and stuff
06:30:06  <Alberth> I have no doubt about that
06:30:49  <Alberth> andy, for simple code changes it's usually ok. Don't modify strings (only add new ones at the bottom iirc)
06:30:52  <andythenorth> ah ok, so FindChallenge() is where the distance scrore is calculated
06:31:29  <andythenorth> so if the map has limited cargo sources close to secondaries, goals will be repeated easily
06:31:34  <Alberth> sounds like a good area :)
06:32:21  <Alberth> close is realtive, iirc it's between 50 and 200 or so
06:32:29  <andythenorth> it’s rand(200) + 50
06:32:47  <andythenorth> I have had a couple of goals that are maybe 180 tiles distance
06:32:47  <Alberth> ah, pretty close :)
06:33:18  <Alberth> 200 should probably be scaled to mapsize
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06:37:43  <andythenorth> maybe :)
06:40:41  <andythenorth> ah there is some ‘distance * 2’ in here
06:40:44  * andythenorth digging
06:41:04  <andythenorth> dunno if the repeating goals are just a side effect of distance check and can be tuned out
06:41:18  <andythenorth> or if they need an actual guard to prevent repeat (which could have side effects)
06:41:40  <andythenorth> ah
06:42:24  <andythenorth> once the cargo is selected, the distance checks will always use the same destination, unless the map has changed?
06:42:38  <andythenorth> because produce-accept pair will produce same result?
06:44:31  <Flygon> Every time I see the screenshot threads, I wanna screenshot my own games. But I'm afraid that my setups would be too 'primative' for TTDers to like
06:46:41  <andythenorth> what’s the worst that could happen?
06:46:48  <andythenorth> some people on the internets are mean to you?
06:48:09  <Flygon> I don't want to subject them to poor maps
06:50:03  <Alberth> you care too much about random Internet users
06:50:35  <Alberth> like "I won't write here, maybe my English is too bad"
06:51:16  <Supercheese> just do what I do, and don't start your own thread, but post in Random shots or other threads (e.g. Complex junctions)
06:51:33  <Alberth> Complex junctions is easy to improve :p
06:51:45  <Supercheese> all my junctions are complete organig spaghetti
06:51:47  <Flygon> Mate, this's the closest I come to complex, and it isn't even very good xP
06:51:47  <Alberth> especially a few of the first posts :)
06:51:48  <Supercheese> organic*
06:52:12  <Supercheese> they're not high-throughput, they're not well-designed, but they're complex all right
06:52:30  <Supercheese> also, why post a junction with no trains on it?
06:52:33  <Supercheese> just looks... empty
06:52:48  <Alberth> ha :)
06:52:50  <Flygon> This wasn't for posting, it was more seeing if I could make it
06:52:59  <Flygon> I just know now that I can build such a thing in future for future games
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06:53:18  <Alberth> nah, don't learn to standardize your junctions
06:53:30  <Alberth> it makes the game so boring, I think
06:53:35  <Supercheese> planning ahead? Bah. humbug
06:53:41  <Supercheese> Just Do It™
06:53:41  <Flygon> Just that a lot of my OTTD games can look pretty bleh
06:53:47  <Flygon> (Also I really fucked this rail network up)
06:54:00  <Supercheese> that's a nice shot
06:54:04  <Supercheese> I like the single-platrofms
06:54:07  <Supercheese> platforms*
06:54:31  <Flygon> Yeah, but the fact that it's all designed as a non-terminus, and one track pair per line
06:54:35  <Flygon> Makes it inherently boring
06:54:47  <Alberth> it's a playing style
06:55:34  <Alberth> screenshot forum is dominated by people making nice small villages with small stations
06:55:45  <Alberth> adding some more variety wouldn't hurt, imho
06:55:51  <Flygon> Hmm...
06:55:57  <Flygon> I'll need to do a new Europe game then
06:57:22  <andythenorth> sall map
06:57:25  <andythenorth> small *
06:58:51  <Flygon> Oh man, I forgot I did this game
06:59:10  <Flygon> I regret 'cheating' my way to Akranes
06:59:27  <Flygon> Going bridgeless would've looked so cool
07:02:40  <andythenorth> :o
07:02:46  <andythenorth> people actually play OpenTTD?
07:03:05  <Flygon> Meaning?
07:04:41  <Alberth> exactly that
07:04:52  <Alberth> most people here just talk about openttd :)
07:05:06  <Flygon> Oh O_o
07:05:21  <Supercheese> Yeah I'm actually playing War Thunder right now, not OTTD
07:05:23  <Supercheese> for shame
07:05:45  <Alberth> (that is, if we're on-topic)
07:06:06  <Supercheese> off-topic is the new on-topic
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07:08:10  <andythenorth> hmm
07:08:23  <andythenorth> what is the acceptable cutoff for repeating a goal
07:08:29  <andythenorth> 15 years?  30 years?  never?
07:09:36  <Supercheese> 50 years would surely be enough, perhaps less
07:09:55  <Supercheese> 25 or so, even
07:12:28  <andythenorth> the thing about repeated goals, is they are not really a goal
07:12:34  <andythenorth> because you automatically win it
07:12:51  <andythenorth> so the route building on my map is now stalled :)
07:13:50  <andythenorth> I’ve stopped building, and now I’m just micro-managing vehicle upgrades, because NARS 2 has a daft number of new engines
07:14:33  <andythenorth> but OpenTTD is a route building game, not a train-upgrading game (that is how we end up ‘needing’ daylength) :P
07:19:33  <Flygon> Oh cool
07:19:49  <Flygon> Dutch Road Furnature now supports North American Roads...
07:19:56  <Flygon> Awesometacular
07:26:21  <andythenorth> try Road Hog in your game
07:26:25  <andythenorth> it needs a test
07:27:03  <andythenorth> not the bananas version, that’s waaaaay old
07:27:14  <andythenorth>
07:30:24  <andythenorth> Alberth: seems the thing to do would be wrap a condition around line 180 in FindDestinations()
07:30:57  <andythenorth> and maintain (elsewhere) a list of cargo-industry pairs where a goal has been won
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07:40:57  <Alberth> 180 only does industry targets
07:41:08  <Alberth> around line 250, the pairs are created
07:41:27  <Alberth> if you want to filter on paris of (source, target)
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07:41:39  <Alberth> pairs in paris, apparently
07:44:41  <andythenorth> I think it’s best to filter on paris
07:45:39  <andythenorth> another option would be to extend what HasGoal() checks
07:46:35  <Alberth> that test prevents you get 3 goals for bringing oil to the same refinery
07:46:44  <andythenorth> yes
07:46:59  <andythenorth> if it also could check for historical winning of the goal, that would be a clean solution
07:47:02  <andythenorth> maybe :P
07:47:45  <Alberth> pairs come into play at line 249, as you loop over producers within the acceptors loop
07:47:46  <andythenorth> I see ’already won’ as a subset of duplicate
07:48:51  <Alberth> so never have another oil to the refinery if you already had one?
07:49:07  <andythenorth> yes
07:49:12  <Alberth> makes sense, and is even easier than pairs
07:49:21  <andythenorth> there is the annoying case that the map has no goals left
07:49:27  <andythenorth> which is tedious to handle
07:50:17  * andythenorth must to children’s football
07:50:23  <andythenorth> but I want to look at this again later
07:50:24  <Alberth> it tries 20 times or so to find a new pair
07:50:32  <andythenorth> I saw that :)
07:50:42  <andythenorth> does it message anything if it can’t find *any* goals
07:50:43  <Alberth> so on failure, return "failed" to the main loop
07:50:55  <Alberth> and stop trying then
07:51:07  <Alberth> or at least lower the rate
07:51:23  <Alberth> ie no forced update every day or so
07:52:07  <Alberth> new industries will be picked up
07:53:01  <Alberth> probably remove delivered goals when the industry disappears
07:53:16  <andythenorth> oh yes, that’s an extra case to consider :)
07:53:32  <Alberth> it catches the closure event iirc
07:53:33  <andythenorth> so the main loop needs to handle that?
07:53:38  * andythenorth bbl
07:53:42  <Alberth> see you
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08:14:31  <andythenorth_> Is phone
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08:35:58  <Wolf01> moin
08:36:03  <__ln__> hello customer of telecom italia
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08:44:41  <Alberth> moin
08:45:43  <__ln__> hello customer of 2001:981:c6c5
08:46:00  <Alberth> hello user of many _ characters
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09:29:49  <Eddi|zuHause> why do so many ipv6 addresses start with 2001?
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09:36:02  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: ?
09:38:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so they artificially restricted the namespace to starting with 2 (or 3)?
09:38:38  <andythenorth> o/
09:39:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and 2001 basically is for all the early adopters?
09:39:52  <Rubidium> obviously everything starting with 2 is for earth, 3 for mars, ... ;)
09:40:29  <Eddi|zuHause> so a mercury probe would have address starting with 0? what about solar probes?
09:43:09  <peter1138> hmm, my host is masked somehow
09:43:19  <peter1138> but yeah, it starts with a 2
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09:59:43  <andythenorth> Alberth: FinalizeGoal() would seem to be the place to update a persistent list of won goals?
10:00:19  <Alberth> o/
10:01:25  <andythenorth> hmm, active_goals is a list, does that keep growing, but completed goal numbers are set to null?
10:02:19  <Alberth> yep, and monitoring stuff runs through the list throwing out old crap
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10:03:31  <andythenorth> hmm FinalizeGoal() is also called if the industry closes etc
10:03:40  <andythenorth> I should’t use that
10:03:40  <Alberth> I'd say it belongs in CheckAndFinishGoals
10:03:59  <Alberth> FinalizeGoals is about the goal on its own
10:04:11  <Alberth> you want a company method
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10:04:12  <andythenorth> CheckFinished also returns true if timeout < 0?
10:04:19  <Alberth> hoi f
10:04:22  <andythenorth> quak
10:04:35  <frosch123> hola
10:05:05  <Alberth> looks that way
10:05:46  <andythenorth> UpdateDelivered might do it
10:05:58  <andythenorth> that handles the ‘goal won’ news and such
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10:08:40  <Alberth> close enough, I think
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10:20:33  <andythenorth> hmm
10:20:38  <andythenorth> don’t change a GS on a running game
10:20:43  <andythenorth> OpenTTD has frozen
10:22:13  <Alberth> :o
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10:22:27  <andythenorth> won’t generate a crashlog even
10:22:41  <andythenorth> oh here we go
10:22:43  <andythenorth> segfault
10:23:15  <andythenorth> zero info in that crashlog
10:23:20  <andythenorth> think it just says I killed the app
10:24:10  <andythenorth> well, that makes updating a GS harder :)
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10:26:02  <Alberth> hmm, you updated data, which doesn't get initialized?
10:27:08  <andythenorth> I just added a logging print
10:27:21  <andythenorth> so I could learn how to test a GS
10:28:00  <Alberth> I prepare a savegame with the GS running, and use  ./openttd -g <savegame>
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10:34:17  <andythenorth> hmm
10:34:30  <andythenorth> trunk BusyBee kills my openttd
10:35:09  <frosch123> allergies to bees are widespread in my family
10:36:21  <andythenorth> ho, seems I have to restart OpenTTD, then explicitly select ‘none’ for GS, then select BusyBee again
10:36:25  <andythenorth> then it doesn’t crash :P
10:42:21  <andythenorth> ok, the crashes were because the version of BB I had was ancient :P
10:42:45  <andythenorth> and OpenTTD was persisting the settings I assume, but they are changed in more recent BB
10:47:18  <andythenorth> eh, I’ve added a won_goals data structured :P
10:47:22  <andythenorth> structure *
10:47:28  <andythenorth> dunno if it’s savegame safe, seems to be
10:47:39  * andythenorth must to squirrel docs
10:48:32  <andythenorth> I’ve used a table {}
10:48:45  <andythenorth> seems like a list would be better
10:51:42  <andythenorth> Alberth: if this was python, I’d just move the Goal object from active_goals to won_goals when won
10:51:45  <andythenorth> any reason not to do that?
10:52:20  <andythenorth> probably means we could also list won goals in the story book
10:56:28  <Alberth> there is also monitoring attached
10:56:50  <Alberth> and you're not interested in the goal details, imho
10:57:20  <Alberth> make a new won_goals list in the company?
10:57:55  <andythenorth> got that bit
10:58:18  <andythenorth> I just need to figure out how to store cargo + accept in it
10:58:27  <andythenorth> and if it’s a table or array
10:58:46  <andythenorth> maybe table of tables
10:58:48  * andythenorth tries
10:59:06  <Alberth> table of targets to tables of cargo ?
11:00:34  <andythenorth> {0: {cargo: coal, accept: 0x3sfs213123}} or such
11:00:44  <andythenorth> dunno, squirrel tables I am reading about, they seem mad
11:01:44  <Alberth> {0: {coal: True}}
11:02:00  <andythenorth> :o
11:02:09  <Alberth> inner dict is really a set,
11:02:19  <andythenorth> I had better read about these slots some more, I have not seen anything like them before
11:02:45  <Alberth> there is a difference between making new data, and modifying existing data
11:02:51  <Alberth> new is with <-   iirc
11:04:11  <Alberth> simplest is to make the data at construction
11:07:24  <andythenorth> ok, working on that
11:14:48  <andythenorth> ok, I’ve got a table of arrays :D
11:15:09  <andythenorth> {id: [cargo_num, industry_num], 
11:15:44  <andythenorth> if a player wins hundreds of goals, do I need to be concerned about performance walking that array?
11:15:57  <andythenorth> (when assigning new goals)
11:16:15  <Alberth> what's id ?
11:16:26  <andythenorth> just a number
11:16:33  <andythenorth> starting at 0
11:16:47  <andythenorth> I could just do array of arrays I think
11:16:56  <andythenorth> or I could index by cargo
11:17:03  <Alberth> sounds plausible :)
11:17:13  <andythenorth> faster if indexed on one of the parts of the pair
11:17:34  <Alberth> yeah, that's why I aimed for a table of tables
11:19:05  * andythenorth wonders if squirrel has “if x in [some_array]”
11:19:29  <Alberth> it's not very useful to have that
11:20:26  <andythenorth> oh, does your suggestion imply keeping True and False for every pair? o_O
11:20:29  * andythenorth wonders
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11:31:19  <Alberth> I think you always need a value in the table
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11:31:40  <Alberth> but with a set, you basically don't care, existence of the key is sufficient
11:32:29  <Alberth> so you need some dummy value, typically a boolean, or null, or none, or 0, or 1
11:33:26  <Alberth> given my broad experience in squirrel, it's also very possibly my ideas of tables is plain wrong :p
11:35:45  <andythenorth> they are making my head hurt
11:35:50  <andythenorth> but I will carry on
11:47:54  <Alberth> they are like dicts in python :)
11:55:07  <andythenorth> I can’t find anything like .keys() or .iteritems() or so :)
11:55:15  <andythenorth> maybe everything is done with a loop :P
11:59:26  <Alberth> exp:= keyexp 'in' tableexp
11:59:26  <Alberth>  					Tests the existence of a slot in a table.
11:59:26  <Alberth>  					Returns a value different than null if keyexp is a valid key in tableexp
12:01:11  <andythenorth> are we on Squirrel. 2 or 3?
12:01:23  <Alberth> 2
12:01:28  <Alberth> bbl
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12:01:47  * andythenorth has found the correct section in docs
12:01:49  <andythenorth> that helps
12:04:58  <Eddi|zuHause> just keep in mind that "in" is actually an expensive operation
12:08:59  <andythenorth> compared to looking up by key, and seeing if null is returned?
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12:25:50  <supermop> hello
12:26:13  <supermop> andythenorth: is busy bee?
12:26:33  <andythenorth> is cat
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13:19:43  <andythenorth> ffs
13:20:53  <andythenorth> this always returns false
13:22:09  <andythenorth> I hate learning new languages :|
13:28:16  <andythenorth> this just crashes
13:28:32  <andythenorth> missing index when I try to read the value I’ve just set (line 6)
13:35:53  <andythenorth> ha
13:36:16  <andythenorth> the hash (object reference) of the table changes every time I read the object
13:36:19  <andythenorth> that can’t be good?
13:39:36  <andythenorth> squirrel is weird
13:39:50  <andythenorth> can’t write “CompanyData(comp_id).won_goals”
13:39:59  <andythenorth> have to do “cdata = CompanyData(comp_id)”
13:40:05  <andythenorth> then “cdata.won_goals"
13:47:57  <andythenorth> meh
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14:12:01  * andythenorth wonders how to loop over table keys
14:12:09  <andythenorth> foreach gets the table values
14:18:11  <andythenorth> oh ffs, I didn’t consider just unpacking
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14:45:02  <Wolf01> mmmh, it's only me who gets the units wrong?
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14:59:21  <Alberth> it's not Terra Byte?
14:59:35  <Alberth> *Tera
15:02:49  <Wolf01> it could be TrueBrain of cocoa too :P
15:14:47  <andythenorth> Alberth:
15:15:02  <andythenorth> I had some “andythenorth doesn’t understand Squirrel” issues :P
15:15:40  <andythenorth> it appears to store won goals correctly, it doesn’t attempt to make use of them yet though :)
15:19:52  <Flygon> Meanwhile a surprising amount of RO servers still use .txt databases
15:20:26  <Alberth> reading text files is pretty fast
15:20:33  <Alberth> and reliable
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15:23:10  <Flygon> Alberth: The passwords are stored in plaintext
15:23:16  <Flygon> Instead of being encrypted when using SQL
15:23:25  <Alberth> andythenorth:  looks ok to me, basically
15:24:02  <andythenorth> tables seem to need a lot of declarative lines
15:24:24  <andythenorth> my_table = { foo={} } seems to sulk
15:25:10  <Alberth> Flygon: at least they are honest, instead of thinking they are safe, but not
15:25:53  <Flygon> Hmm...
15:26:13  <Alberth> andythenorth: you can fold a loop around it, but not worth the trouble
15:26:54  <andythenorth> now I just need to check won_goals in FindChallenge
15:27:40  <Alberth> you can reduce the if (foo in ...) branch by adding inverting the check  !(foo in ....)
15:28:21  <Alberth> you can also introduce a local variable for the common part, to make it less massive
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15:32:02  <andythenorth> ach, I spent a while looking for a negator on that ‘in’ check :P
15:32:17  <andythenorth> I tried (! and == false and == null :P
15:33:07  <andythenorth> thanks :)
15:34:10  <andythenorth> hmm !( doesn’t work
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15:44:28  <Alberth> it would be  if (!(foo in ...))
15:44:47  <Alberth> which does look like crap, I agree :)
15:47:48  <andythenorth> it’s a funny little language
15:56:23  <Alberth> yes, quite balanced in that respect
16:08:35  <andythenorth> hrm
16:08:42  <andythenorth> I need to distinguish town or industry
16:09:01  <andythenorth> in the return values from FindDestinations()
16:09:12  <andythenorth> I am impaired by the crying child on my left arm, somewhat
16:11:59  * andythenorth figures it out
16:24:06  <dlhero> hey hi
16:24:13  <dlhero> tryin to clone nuts but I can't
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16:24:19  <dlhero> anything wrong with hg on server ?
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16:37:10  <Alberth> no idea, channel to talk to is #openttdcoop.devzone in general
16:37:21  <andythenorth> might be too big
16:37:23  <Alberth> nuts is probably a bit very big
16:37:40  <Alberth> what does hg say?
16:46:40  <dlhero>
16:47:48  <andythenorth> eh, the industries seem to be logging the id correctly
16:47:54  <andythenorth> but towns seem to be storing 0 always
16:48:33  <andythenorth> also I really don’t understand scopes in squirrel
16:49:09  <andythenorth> I create an object in the company, but I seem to be able to read arbitrary, non-useful versions of it if I get the scope wrong
16:49:35  <frosch123> dlhero: the webserver at coop terminates connections after 1 minute or so
16:49:46  <frosch123> so no pull or clone can take longer
16:49:58  <frosch123> you can work around that by not pulling everything at once
16:50:12  <frosch123> like hg clone -r10 ... and then hg pull -r20 and so on
16:52:39  <dlhero>  :/
16:52:41  <TrueBrain> right; time to finish this dreadful migration of services ... will try to minimize the outage :)
16:52:56  <Alberth> don't remember what towns do exactly, although I remember being able to print the town name from it
16:52:58  <dlhero> would appreciate an http link to tip :)
16:53:00  <Alberth> hi TrueBrain
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16:53:28  <frosch123> dlhero: there are snapshots on bundles
16:53:39  <frosch123> but you can likely also just download the binary then
16:53:47  <frosch123> no idea what you try to do :)
16:54:38  <dlhero> frosch123: need a tar.gz of the repo
16:57:32  <Alberth> no nuts @ bundles
16:59:05  <frosch123> there are no archives with the complete repos
16:59:09  <frosch123> only single revisions
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17:02:29  <andythenorth> bloody :
17:02:33  <andythenorth> or ; even
17:09:07  <andythenorth> Alberth:
17:09:12  <andythenorth> hard to test if that is working :)
17:09:28  <andythenorth> the towns stuff I’ve left out for now
17:09:35  <andythenorth> hard to prove a negative :P
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17:15:02  <Alberth> You can't just access by key?
17:15:14  <andythenorth> I tried that but got an index error
17:15:45  <Alberth> you can't just test whether the key exists, and if it does retrieve it and do the next test?
17:16:19  <andythenorth> erh, yes, that would be much more sensible :P
17:16:21  <andythenorth> oops
17:16:53  <TrueBrain> website will be down for a few, while I sync data from one machine to the other and reconfigure the network .. joyful :)
17:18:32  <andythenorth> Alberth: less stupid? o_O
17:19:49  <Alberth> you can "return cargo_id in this.won_goals["industries"][accept["ind"]];"  but yeah
17:20:44  <andythenorth> even better :)
17:21:15  * andythenorth afk for a bit
17:22:57  <TrueBrain> okay, website should be back alive and kicking :)
17:24:01  <Alberth> /me stays away from it for a while
17:25:08  <Alberth> front page works
17:25:43  <TrueBrain> does it work for IPv6 too?
17:26:01  <Alberth> yep
17:26:04  <TrueBrain> cool
17:26:10  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
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17:45:27  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27404 trunk/src/lang/arabic_egypt.txt (2015-09-26 19:45:17 +0200 )
17:45:28  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:29  <DorpsGek> arabic_egypt - 64 changes by abdumzn
18:05:52  *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest3049
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18:16:00  * andythenorth ponders
18:16:07  <andythenorth> how to test non-repeating goals :P
18:16:20  <TrueBrain> once :)
18:16:21  <andythenorth> I had a lovely game running, but it was ancient BB
18:16:26  <andythenorth> so eh
18:16:32  <andythenorth> segfaulty :P
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18:16:39  <frosch123> add a sign cheat to complete goals :)
18:19:30  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
18:20:22  <andythenorth> that is a wise suggestion
18:20:36  <andythenorth> or a sign cheat to trigger the goal generation :P
18:20:42  <andythenorth> with parameters :P
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18:43:04  <jackyf> good evening, my openttd (1.5.2) seems having a problem connecting to a content server (, "connection refused"); I wonder if it's a problem with my connection or a server-side issue
18:45:48  <TrueBrain> jackyf: try now
18:46:52  <jackyf> TrueBrain: works now, thanks!
18:46:59  <TrueBrain> and tnx for reporting :)
18:48:21  <andythenorth> Alberth: is it plausible that the towns are selected in linear order, ascending from ID 0?
18:48:26  <andythenorth> when assigning town goals
18:48:52  <Alberth> sounds quite plausible to me
18:49:42  <andythenorth> the first one is always reporting 0 :P
18:49:44  <andythenorth> and the second 1
18:49:45  <andythenorth> etc :P
18:49:53  <andythenorth> hopefully not my bug :)
18:50:10  <jackyf> TrueBrain: you are welcome, nice to see a fast fix :)
18:50:12  <jackyf> bye!
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18:53:29  <andythenorth> that might explain why I haven’t noticed town goals repeating
18:53:42  <andythenorth> _maybe_
18:54:24  <andythenorth> Alberth: I think I’m done, needs playtested, commit in a branch?  Or to default and revert if bad?
18:56:23  <Alberth> feel free to keep it for a while, else please make bookmark
18:57:16  * andythenorth learns about bookmarks
18:57:19  <andythenorth> every day a schoold day
19:13:11  <andythenorth> eh we had a convenient issue already :)
19:21:31  *** Sirenia [~sirenia@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:24:01  * andythenorth must to a game
19:28:04  <Alberth> :)
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19:43:45  <Demosthenex> so after the game downloads opengrf, it still says things are missingon the main screen. what else should i get?
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19:50:02  <andythenorth> does it say what is missing?
19:56:34  <Demosthenex> just a red window says that some graphics are missing from base
19:56:39  <Demosthenex> yet i let it autodownload opengrf
19:57:18  <Demosthenex> wild, when i did a download separeately it resolve dit
19:57:19  * andythenorth has no suggestions sorry :(
19:57:27  * andythenorth uses the original graphics
19:58:23  <Demosthenex> yeah, i prefer them over the 32bpp stuff, i can't tell when something breaks down in that one
19:58:30  <Demosthenex> no smoke, or not visible enough
19:58:41  <Demosthenex> so i hear FIRS really changes up the industries?
19:59:50  <Demosthenex> but it's not in the listof online content
20:00:37  <andythenorth> don’t ask :(
20:00:46  <andythenorth> there was a mistake
20:00:54  <andythenorth> and now it’s no longer available
20:01:29  <andythenorth> manually downloadable here
20:01:38  *** Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
20:01:46  <andythenorth> actually this one
20:01:49  <Demosthenex>
20:01:52  <Demosthenex> i was just reading that
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20:04:15  <Alberth> opengrf?
20:05:58  <Alberth> if you have a savegame requiring that firs, you can get it by content download for the savegame
20:06:23  <Demosthenex> openttd a fatal newgrf error occurred sprite 9679?
20:06:27  <Demosthenex> after adding firs
20:06:44  <Alberth> which firs?
20:06:51  <Alberth> the new one, I am guessing
20:07:06  <Alberth> which won't run, as you need a trunk openttd for it
20:07:11  <Alberth> or a nightly
20:07:38  <Demosthenex> so i should use 5571 then
20:07:51  <Alberth> or use a newer openttd :)
20:08:28  <Demosthenex> i'm on 1.5.2
20:10:39  <andythenorth> yeah, use 1.4.4 ;)
20:10:43  <andythenorth> (5571)
20:11:24  <andythenorth> eh
20:11:40  <andythenorth> why can’t I give a train ID 20 (dec)
20:11:41  <andythenorth> ?
20:11:44  <andythenorth> in a newgrf
20:11:55  <andythenorth> it is built as a double-headed engine, no matter what I do
20:15:12  <Demosthenex> wait, which firs for 1.5.2 then?
20:16:51  <Alberth> 5571
20:17:15  <Alberth> 1.4.4 is the firs version, rather than an openttd version :)
20:17:57  <Alberth> noight andy
20:18:01  <Alberth> *night
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20:23:53  <frosch123> andythenorth: using default ids uses default properties
20:24:12  <frosch123> using non-default ids uses no properties
20:25:37  <andythenorth> ha I didn’t encounter that previously, due to accident
20:25:46  <andythenorth> all Iron Horse IDs were 1000+
20:33:19  * andythenorth fixes :)
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21:07:13  <Demosthenex> so on a long route,is there a way to tell a vehicle to retrace it's steps (ie: route in reverse) instead of going th elong way back to the point of origin? manually adding the stations in reverse order warns me nonstop about duplicate orders...
21:11:10  <frosch123> duplicate orders is only if they follow directly after each other
21:11:48  <frosch123> anyway, do you know about orders without "nonstop"
21:11:56  <frosch123> then you only need two orders for start and end
21:12:03  <frosch123> no intermediate orders
21:12:03  <Demosthenex> these are busses, i've seen nonstop on trains
21:12:12  <Demosthenex> just mang a bus loop
21:16:15  <frosch123> the same exists for road vehicles, but you may have to use the oneway-tool to restrict the routes
21:16:29  <frosch123> so, the vehicles actually drive through the intermediate stations
21:17:42  <frosch123> it's easier with trains :)
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21:27:13  <Demosthenex> that was the clue i needed, that a duplicate order is when the last station is repeated. throw in a maintenance at a nearby facility, and done. now i have my loops
21:38:09  <Demosthenex> are there no early game fishing ships?
22:03:44  <Supercheese> you'll want the FISH set for that
22:03:51  <Supercheese> or, well, maybe it's SQUID now
22:04:57  <Supercheese>
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22:23:17  <Demosthenex> hrm, and now i don't see a car for iron ore?
22:24:33  <Supercheese> If you're using FIRS, you will also need to use newgrf vehicle sets
22:24:39  <Supercheese> vanilla vehicles are insufficient
22:25:47  <Demosthenex> hrm. did i miss a page on prerequisites for FIRS?
22:27:04  *** supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 482 seconds]
22:27:41  <Demosthenex> the firs main page just says "vehicle support, download some", not which to get
22:32:39  <Supercheese> There are many to choose from
22:33:01  <Supercheese> You can stick with all-andy grfs though and get FIRS, SQUID/FISH, Road Hog, Iron Horse, and HEQS
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22:34:02  <Supercheese> and Av8 for aircraft, since it is the undisputed best aircraft set
22:35:11  <Supercheese> in road vehicles and trains, though, there are numerous choices
22:37:48  <Demosthenex> i'm just amazed that there was a list of "you need X Y & Z to make FIRS work"
22:37:55  <Demosthenex> not on reddit or any search i can find
22:40:01  <Supercheese> well, it's pretty much just "You need some vehicle set other than the default vehicles", which means for Road Vehicles, Trains, Ships, and Aircraft
22:40:24  <Supercheese> technically you can get by with just one if you use only trains, or you won't need an aircraft set if you stick to just flying passengers around
22:41:06  <Supercheese> However, no explicit dependencies can be set, because there are so many options in those categories
22:41:39  <Supercheese> Reddit Server 2 is a popular MP server that runs FIRS, you can check out their grf list:
22:42:28  <Supercheese> just their recommendation, of course; personally I find they use too many train sets, one would be enough
22:43:59  <Demosthenex> i ran with what you just suggeted, only downside is i have to start a new map
22:44:02  <Demosthenex> that's ok though
22:44:04  <sim-al2> I've thought about getting that changed, we've had the same stuff for a long time now. Good news is that a new client is being made by efess
22:44:42  <Supercheese> oh new client eh? Any new/removed patches?
22:45:15  <sim-al2> So far no, it looks like everything works, but on a far more recent base
22:45:56  <Supercheese> I see, well a rebase would allow use of FIRS 2, if that's the intention
22:46:22  <Supercheese> although there may yet be latent bugs in the most recent FIRS
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23:18:25  <Wolf01> 'night
23:18:29  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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