Log for #openttd on 22nd October 2015:
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06:48:02  <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause, __ln__: Simplified and Traditional Chinese are the same language, spoken
06:48:09  <Flygon> In fact
06:48:25  <Flygon> The American and British English comparison is incredibly on-the-point
06:48:41  <__ln__> but what aboot cantonese and mandarin?
06:48:53  <Flygon> Simplified Chinese was introduced to make the language easier to read. This means that a lot of characters were 'simplified' compared to the Traditional character
06:48:59  <Flygon> As a basic rule
06:49:17  <Flygon> All Chinese use Simplified Chinese except for the Hong Kongers, which use Traditional
06:49:18  <tipsyTentacle> Cantonese and Mandarin are two different languages
06:49:30  <tipsyTentacle> Cantonese is "written in Mandarin" though
06:49:36  <Flygon> They're generally compatible, but some characters might be confusing to read for someone unfamiliar with the other language
06:49:44  <Flygon> Yeah, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken as seperate languages
06:49:55  <Flygon> Written Chinese is... 'special'
06:50:23  <Flygon> In that, pre-Gana/Kana and pre-Hangul Japan and Korea had pretty much identically written written language to Chinese
06:50:44  <Flygon> Hence why Korea and Japan have had hereditary Hanja/Kanji (tho, they're being gradually phased out)
06:50:49  <tipsyTentacle> Same with Vietnam pre-colonial era
06:51:09  <Flygon> This meant that even if the people from the three countries couldn't SPEAK to eachother, they were mutually intelligible written
06:51:24  <Flygon> Note: I'm not a linguistics expert
06:51:34  <Flygon> I just pick these things up due to curiousity
06:52:03  <Flygon> And take my advice with salt. Plenty of it.
06:52:12  <Flygon> tipsyTentacle: I don't know too much about Vietnam, myself
06:52:15  <Flygon> Nor the language
06:52:23  <tipsyTentacle> As someone from the region, I think what you said is correct.
06:52:29  <Flygon> I understand it's related closely to Chinese region languages tho
06:52:32  <Flygon> Gotcha
06:53:02  <Flygon> Either way, I'm Australian
06:53:30  <tipsyTentacle> Vietnamese is a weird one. It deviates from Klmer, I believe, but there are lots of Chinese loan words and prior to French colonialism, was written with Han/Chinese characters.
06:53:33  <Flygon> My real extent of my language knowledge is having a vague telling of it someone is speaking either Korean or Mandarin on the Train :B
06:53:45  <Flygon> Klmer?
06:54:10  <tipsyTentacle> Khmer*
06:55:21  <Flygon> Hmm
06:55:24  * Flygon looks these up
06:55:26  <tipsyTentacle> Um, a language primarily in Southeast Asia. I don't know much about it. It might be extinct?
06:55:36  <Flygon> Yeah, might explain why I've never heard of it xP
06:55:48  <Flygon> Most of my interaction with people in the region tends to be Pinoys and Malaysians
06:56:09  <Flygon> It's kind of maddening playing the MMOs with them, because...
06:56:13  <Flygon> Most have incredibly good English
06:56:31  <Flygon> But will tip back to Tagalog the slightest leeway they get. Which leaves me out in the cold. :B
06:56:35  <Flygon> #australiantimezoneproblems
06:56:52  <tipsyTentacle> Hehe that's actually fairly amusing
06:57:09  <tipsyTentacle> I remember my friend was in a WoW guild that had a lot of German players and chat was divided between German and Englishh
06:57:24  <Flygon> And with the art side of things... it's incredibly frustrating trying to work with Japanese speakers
06:57:27  <Flygon> Because the problem is...
06:57:35  <Flygon> We really REALLY want to work with eachother, and to talk
06:57:47  <Flygon> But getting good translations happening is nigh impossible :D
06:58:04  <Flygon> Particulary frustrating when we want to exchange art advice @_@
06:58:21  <Flygon> Heheh...
06:58:32  <Flygon> When Gravity tried to extend Ragnarok Online to Europe initially
06:58:39  <tipsyTentacle> Yeah, translation software usually don't do English-Japanese well. The languages are... fairly different, to say the least.
06:58:40  <Flygon> They gave the server operator the AEGIS software
06:59:06  <Flygon> But instead of handing the euRO operators the same AEGIS software iRO used (American English), they gave them jRO (Japan, obviously)'s software in GERMAN
06:59:35  <Flygon> Not only was the entire internal AEGIS software in Japanese, they were given zero provisions for offering the game in other extremely obviously important languages :D
07:00:15  <Flygon> Anyway, the service crashed and burned a few years later, the operator was basically "Blame Gravity, they fucked us over", and the playerbase (prodiminantly German for obvious reasons) felt a bit bitter over the whole thing
07:00:49  <tipsyTentacle> Ouch, sounds harsh.
07:01:17  <Flygon> Anyway, it gets reincernated later, in plain English (sure, non-English speakers play, but it's easier for a Spanish guy to muddle through than German :U), annnd, yeay
07:01:19  <Flygon> yeah*
07:01:34  <Flygon> (plain, as in, using iRO's translation using American English)
07:02:00  <tipsyTentacle> hehe interesting.
07:02:01  <Flygon> But... yeah. One of the stupidest translation trainwreck stories in history
07:02:11  <tipsyTentacle> Gaming* history
07:02:18  <tipsyTentacle> I am sure there have been wars over errors in translations
07:02:19  <tipsyTentacle> :P
07:02:19  <Flygon> True hahaha
07:02:38  <Flygon> Also, regarding the software translation thing for JPN-ENG
07:02:41  <Flygon> The issue wasn't the software
07:02:52  <Flygon> The issue was that the HUMANS we were using didn't do art :D
07:03:13  <tipsyTentacle> Oh! So lots of jargon?
07:03:18  <Flygon> Eeyup :D
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07:03:46  <tipsyTentacle> Ouch. ];
07:03:52  <Flygon> Buuut... yeah
07:04:05  <Flygon> Advised him to talk to a Japanese artist about what I was trying to help him with
07:04:56  * Flygon scratches head
07:04:59  <tipsyTentacle> Also, a random note, but Khmer is also known as Cambodian, as in the Cambodian language.
07:05:04  <Flygon> Oooh
07:05:07  <Flygon> oooooooooh
07:05:09  <Flygon> Ooooh
07:05:13  <Flygon> That's why I've heard of it before
07:05:15  <Flygon> It rang bells
07:05:17  <Flygon> But... derp
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07:42:33  <Wolf01> o/
07:42:40  <tipsyTentacle> Hello.
07:57:59  <Flygon> 'eyy
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09:12:18  <planetmaker> \o
09:13:42  <tipsyTentacle> Oi
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10:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause> <Flygon> Yeah, Cantonese and Mandarin are spoken as seperate languages <-- so they write the same word, but pronounce it completely different?
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10:21:48  <Flygon> iirc
10:21:50  <Flygon> Pretty much, yes.
10:22:12  <Flygon> Each letter from Chinese script basically represents a individual word/concept, no matter how it's spoken
10:22:59  <tipsyTentacle> Pretty much
10:23:12  <Flygon> This is also pretty much why the Chinese Government started introducing a phonetic script around the early 1900s... because it would've been a nuciance to create new words. But I don't know Chinese languages well enough to be certain.
10:23:24  <tipsyTentacle> bopomofo~<3
10:24:03  <tipsyTentacle> Also known as Zhuyin or Zhuyin fuhao
10:24:58  <tipsyTentacle> It was created by the Nationalist government for phonetic notation
10:25:30  <tipsyTentacle> It isn't used outside of children books and dictionaries (in Taiwan, the bastion of the Nationalist government)
10:26:03  <tipsyTentacle> The mainland Communist government uses pinyin as its system for phonetic notation.
10:26:53  * Flygon nod
10:27:11  <Flygon> Again, I'm in no way a linguist, so, don't trust me for the specificis
10:27:15  <Flygon> specifics*
10:28:11  <tipsyTentacle> Again, this is only because I grew up in an East Asian community (while being East Asian myself), so... yeah. I have personal experience with both systems, mew.
10:29:08  <tipsyTentacle> The kid books in the "traditional chinese" section of my local library has bopomofo in it.
10:33:05  <tipsyTentacle> Anyhow, the phonetic script wasn't made to replace the characters, I believe. If I remember right, there were lots of people against using a phonetic script (and a lot of people opposed to simplications of the characters).
10:34:02  <tipsyTentacle> I would guess that it was made to make teaching a standardized version of Mandarin to the entire nation much easier.
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11:49:03  <fjb> Moin
12:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Mahlzeit
12:04:48  <fjb> Gute Idee!
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12:09:56  * fjb should find some time to play OpenTTD again.
12:12:50  * tipsyTentacle approves of that plan.
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13:44:15  <Wolf01> i don't know why suddenly came to my mind this: teacher "you shouldn't ask for 'a glass of water', but 'water in a glass, please'"
13:48:51  <planetmaker> :)
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13:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that. of course, is pure nonsense.
13:56:07  <V453000> I also think that it is shit on a heap
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14:47:57  <Wolf01> i think i'll purchase other 5 emerald express sets, just to make 2 trains with 3 cars each one
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16:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause> in my mind, less than 4 wagons is not a proper train...
16:42:02  <frosch123> so most dmus are no proper trains?
16:44:20  <V453000> slugs are people too
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16:44:42  <frosch123> did you draw slug biters yet?
16:45:22  <frosch123> resp. how often per day to you bring up that topic to convince people?
16:45:48  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes.
16:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and slugs are way scarier than biters :p
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16:56:02  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what when there are many axles?
16:56:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: there's almost a don't-care about number of axles
16:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> also, slugs don't have axles :p
16:58:12  <Rubidium> ;)
16:59:28  <V453000> slug biters are coming for sure, I just didnt start them yet :P
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17:01:05  <frosch123> haha, your graphics skills have definitely a train background :p
17:01:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's pretty much a "no" on the train scale :p
17:02:38  <V453000> yeah probably not :) at least not anytime soon
17:02:51  <V453000> got enough stuff to do for the game already
17:05:08  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause:,4369686 <- that's an even nicer question about... is it a train... or isn't it?
17:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is probably a train.
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17:06:58  <Rubidium> though... it only has four wagons
17:07:05  <Rubidium> the rest can be powered
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18:03:10  <repower15> hi all is trhere a listing where i can see stuck trains
18:03:22  <repower15> i now got 400 running and somtimes they pile up
18:03:39  <repower15> only ones a year i got notice
18:03:59  <repower15> maybe a flag i can indicate  on my own scripting
18:04:04  <Terkhen> hello
18:04:22  <repower15> hi ter
18:05:10  <repower15> its then a miss to clean all up
18:06:18  <repower15> i folow the max load available but thats on high traffic not a good one as water is not a high value or things like that
18:07:06  <FLHerne> repower15: In the map, there's an option that shows the positions of trains
18:07:29  <FLHerne> A big clump of trains that aren't moving is fairly conspicuous
18:07:45  <repower15> i know but on a 12024 map its not that good view
18:08:03  <repower15> 1024 ;-)
18:08:48  <repower15> FLHerne:  you may also know thar rome on canvas is fairly limited
18:08:59  <repower15> that room
18:09:32  <FLHerne> Yeah, it's not ideal
18:09:53  <FLHerne> Sorting by profit in the vehicle list can work, but takes a while
18:10:00  <FLHerne> to be noticeable
18:10:12  <repower15> i will check that
18:10:54  <repower15> if a cross map route piles up then you are in notice float
18:12:26  <repower15> also as in Railroadtycoon a realy good feature is a list of townes thar need things Eqal to Openttd woudt be a list of growing time
18:13:15  <repower15> so you can see this town is in good shape and hase alot of things othere might be delivered more
18:13:52  <repower15> im now playing since 0.5 2games a real humen year
18:15:33  <repower15> is there a mailinglist to get some user reqestet feature for futher vertions
18:16:23  <repower15> or for anouncing better behavier on some build ins
18:17:05  <frosch123> <- that lists everything
18:18:00  <repower15> thanks
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18:18:55  <repower15> most angry is that townes do not take water or food if the auto builder puts some waterwell or food plant near
18:19:10  <repower15> BYE im off for today
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19:35:46  <Terkhen> good night
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22:31:07  <Wolf01> 'night
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