Log for #openttd on 23rd October 2015:
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03:08:22  <greeter> greetings all
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04:01:04  <tipsyTentacle> Quick question: how does OpenTTD multiplayer work? I heard there were rules to prevent griefing and things?
04:04:41  <greeter> hmm, that is a good question
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04:13:47  <tipsyTentacle> I joined Reddit Server One. It seems like every company has their own little niche?
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04:14:56  <greeter> hmm, i have very little experience with multiplayer unfortunately. i'm not really sure what would be proper etiquette, except for maybe some of the most obvious rules
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04:41:04  <greeter> hmm
04:54:46  <tipsyTentacle> hmm
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04:57:30  <greeter> seems we're both working things out for ourselves tonight lol
04:58:26  <tipsyTentacle> ?
04:59:04  <greeter> you're working on learning about multiplayer rules, i'm working on creating a scenario
04:59:38  <tipsyTentacle> ohh interesting :O
05:00:04  <greeter> yes. i was browsing the openttd forums and i saw something about creating custom height maps based on real world locations. starting to wish i hadn't read that though lol
05:18:37  <tipsyTentacle> hehe
05:18:57  <tipsyTentacle> I know that want though; i do enjoy making maps based on RL places i've been
05:19:02  <tipsyTentacle> for other games
05:20:59  <greeter> well, i either can't find good software for what i need to do or using it well is beyond me at this point (likely the latter lol) but i got something rudimentary imported to the game at least
05:27:38  <greeter> rofl, well one file i just tried was rather, interesting. it interpreted the ocean as the highest part of the map, at least in the sub arctic climate that means it is water, even if not liquid
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07:25:39  <Guest5766> tipsyTentacle: you cannot remove tiles owned by other companies in MP
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07:26:00  <Wolf01> hi o/
07:26:33  <Xaroth> so while griefing is somewhat doable, once a track is set there's not that much that can be done
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07:51:32  <planetmaker> tipsyTentacle, 'rules to prevent griefing' are those which are enforced by the server moderators
07:52:06  <planetmaker> whatever technical set one creates - technical rules can always be circumvented. Especially in such an open construction game like openttd
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08:10:24  <Xaroth|Work> o/ planetmaker
08:11:25  <Wolf01> planetmaker, just put other players in spectator mode :D
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08:32:12  <planetmaker> Wolf01, that's what we automatically do, if a playername wasn't chosen ;) Then the player gets immediately moved to spectator :P
08:32:27  <planetmaker> Thus no player with name Player* can play :)
08:34:19  <Wolf01> but it's a Player* problem which can be fixed by himself, if i want "planetmaker" to be a spectator how could do it?
08:35:02  <peter1138> Many multiplayer servers have rules which prohibit direct competition, as they assume "ownership" of towns or industries. Sad.
08:38:49  <planetmaker> Wolf01, !rcon players; !rcon move playerID 255
08:39:18  <planetmaker> so yes, just like you advised :)
08:43:03  <Wolf01> good
09:13:11  <tipsyTentacle> So, I am not sure if I am making mainlines very well
09:13:26  <tipsyTentacle> but I guess I am not playing connecting the dots anymore? :D
09:14:11  <tipsyTentacle> Although I think connect the dots might work for PAX? Not sure.
09:28:35  <V453000> aware of :P
09:29:38  <tipsyTentacle> Yes. Reading about techniques is one thing. Applyinng it to this mountainous terrain is another <_<;
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09:35:05  <V453000> openttdcoop mainly has servers where you can find people to learn from and build with ;) reading is indeed just one thing
09:35:59  <tipsyTentacle> Ohhhhhh. I've been hestiant to join a server since I feel very inexperienced. Like, I'll be a burden rather than an asset.
09:36:24  <tipsyTentacle> But I guess everyone is just there to have fun and help each other soooo....
09:37:15  <planetmaker> quite right.
09:37:39  <planetmaker> as long as you play by the server rules, every skill level is welcome
09:38:01  <V453000> playing and communicating with people is the best and fastest way to learn, too ;)
09:42:13  <tipsyTentacle> Well, I'll def have to try it when i get home from work.
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09:58:21  <V453000> IRC channel is #openttdcoop on this network, in case you wondered :P
09:59:43  <tipsyTentacle> Thanks. I've only been there once before and all i did was idle
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10:07:09  <Alberth> hi hi
10:09:34  <peter1138> hi
10:09:56  <Wolf01> hi hi hi
10:10:32  <V453000> nohi
10:11:56  <tipsyTentacle> bye bye
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10:41:43  <__ln__> @seen Yexo
10:41:43  <DorpsGek> __ln__: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 46 weeks, 4 days, 21 hours, 25 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
10:42:17  <__ln__> leader in idling contest
10:46:54  <Wolf01> wow, that could be a new record
10:47:19  <Alberth> more likely, a bouncer that wasn't pulled down
10:47:47  <Wolf01> it is its ghost :OOO
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12:30:42  <rofl_kills_lol> Hello together
12:31:43  <rofl_kills_lol> I tried to download open TTD but the website is not responding after i clicked on the link to the file
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13:29:59  <planetmaker> and which link did you click?
13:30:31  <planetmaker> ah.. gone.
13:30:48  <__ln__> naturally
13:31:18  <V453000> perfect nickname for a smart person
13:31:44  <planetmaker> yep. A real smarty.
13:31:49  <planetmaker> Sadly not made of chocolate
13:33:36  <planetmaker>
13:33:41  <planetmaker> uhm...
13:33:53  <planetmaker> meant that :D
13:34:46  <Alberth> :)
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14:13:26  <andythenorth> but seriously, who uses the ‘Green’ map colour?
14:13:28  <andythenorth> really?
14:17:09  <Alberth> I did for a long time :)
14:17:57  <Alberth> and tbh I still like it more than the blue/dark purple one I use now
14:22:15  <andythenorth> also hi
14:22:49  <peter1138> Speaking of colours... haha
14:22:50  * planetmaker does
14:22:55  <planetmaker> also hi :)
14:23:17  <peter1138> Nearly 3 years old ;p
14:23:37  <peter1138> Though, old version of it.
14:23:41  <planetmaker> :)
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14:52:02  <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> perfect nickname for a smart person <-- it's not actually true, though. "hehe" kills "lol"
15:22:10  <andythenorth> hmm
15:22:45  <andythenorth> pax cdist
15:22:54  <andythenorth> the winning strategy is point-point networks?
15:23:10  <andythenorth> never connect more than 2 stations in the same linkgraph?
15:24:52  <lastmikoi> sounds unnatural
15:28:28  <Alberth> just ignore number of waiting pax?
15:29:23  <andythenorth> kind of annoys me
15:29:32  <andythenorth> also ‘winning’ in this case also includes ‘getting paid fast’
15:29:40  <andythenorth> I need money to win Silicon Valley ;)
15:30:10  <Alberth> don't full load?
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15:30:31  <andythenorth> I don’t :)
15:31:00  <andythenorth> but passengers going more hops = longer time to get paid
15:31:14  <andythenorth> I guess total money is about the same
15:32:31  <Alberth> tmwftlb :)
15:32:59  <Alberth> btw iron horse trains from 1860 aren't very good for climbing mountains with freight :)
15:33:05  <andythenorth> ha
15:33:12  <andythenorth> what weight multiplier?
15:33:44  <Alberth> 4
15:33:51  <andythenorth> yeah ok
15:34:00  <andythenorth> I stopped using anything but 1 some while ago
15:34:08  <andythenorth> no particular reasons
15:34:13  <andythenorth> good luck :)
15:34:24  <andythenorth> try Tropic climate :P
15:34:28  <andythenorth> there are no mountains in Tropic
15:34:52  <andythenorth> is it known broken, or is ‘ignore player settings for map gen’ by design?
15:35:06  <Alberth> just adding double 0-6-0-ramsbottom  engine to anything going up hill :)
15:35:38  <Alberth> afaik tropic doesn't do hills
15:36:35  <andythenorth> empiricism agrees
15:36:42  <andythenorth> for my limited testing of 30 maps or so
15:37:00  <andythenorth> original map generator does hills in Tropic, it’s just Terragenesis that’s refusing
15:37:48  <andythenorth> maybe I can break that locally
15:37:52  * andythenorth looks in src
15:38:29  <Alberth> I don't remember if there are dedicated settings for tropic with terragenesis
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15:40:11  <andythenorth> looks like there
15:40:14  <andythenorth> are
15:40:40  <Alberth> quak
15:40:54  <andythenorth> hmm
15:41:04  <andythenorth> maybe I can just delete some stuff
15:41:32  <Alberth> make tropic scenario :p
15:41:50  <frosch123> moin
15:42:29  <andythenorth> I could use a heightmap I suppose
15:42:46  <andythenorth> but now I have to know why it’s so weird :P
15:42:50  <Alberth> better option
15:43:11  <andythenorth> GenerateTerrain() does something
15:44:56  <andythenorth> ah
15:45:03  <andythenorth> tgp.cpp is the place I need :)
15:45:16  <andythenorth> * Half of tiles should be at lowest (0..25%) heights */
15:45:22  <andythenorth> no mountains for you then
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15:50:28  <Alberth> that's why I play arctic :p
15:51:55  <Alberth> hmm, 1896, and still no livestock trucks
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16:08:36  <andythenorth> no Iron Horse livestock wagons?  Or RVs?
16:09:32  <Alberth> RV
16:09:56  <Alberth> livestock trams do exist though
16:10:31  <Alberth> but euhm, we can pretty soon invent flight, and no RV yet :p
16:12:41  <Alberth> :o  clay has more sandy colour now, nice
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16:25:17  * andythenorth wonders if the clay change was intended :P
16:25:27  <andythenorth> I do need to add earlier RVs
16:26:19  <andythenorth> oic, no livestock truck until 1941
16:27:02  <andythenorth> Alberth: what year are you in now?
16:30:11  <Alberth> 1898
16:30:59  <Alberth> but livestock travels by luxury tram through the city now :)
16:31:20  <andythenorth> are you using grf from bananas, or manually installed?
16:31:25  * andythenorth is adding a truck
16:31:37  <andythenorth> not until 1911 mind
16:32:03  <Alberth> iirc manually install
16:32:24  <Alberth> roadhog alpha 16
16:32:45  <andythenorth> sounds like banaramas
16:33:02  <andythenorth> anyway, I pushed some changes
16:33:20  <Alberth> could be, I don't track where I downloaded versions from
16:39:46  <Alberth> \o/
16:46:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still waiting for a horse-carriage-only grf that can be freely combined with any other road set
16:47:20  * andythenorth won’t be providing that, sorry :P
16:47:23  <andythenorth> you could do your own
16:47:29  <andythenorth> o_O
16:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i could, but i probably won't.
16:47:44  <andythenorth> this is life
16:48:05  <andythenorth> I could (probably) make Tropic map gen less stupid
16:48:13  <andythenorth> but I probably won't
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16:48:34  <andythenorth> ha ha, if I get enough money, I could terraform the mountains *in* :P
16:48:54  <andythenorth> neat inversion of the boring land-levelling play style :D
16:49:13  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: will it feature unicorn-carriages that go 500 km/h?
16:49:24  <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely.
16:49:32  <frosch123> not buying it then
16:50:02  * andythenorth is considering the sail-bus
16:50:05  <andythenorth> sail-lorries too
16:52:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i might do a duocorn, though :p
16:52:14  <Wolf01> why not also magnus effect ships?
16:55:30  <andythenorth> why not indeed
16:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what that means
16:58:10  <andythenorth> flettner rotor ships
17:00:47  <andythenorth> also what exactly are lines 491-509 _doing_ in tgp.cpp?
17:02:59  <andythenorth>;a=blob;f=src/tgp.cpp;h=436870b4129fdad9d432fdc0832912539ca40c0a;hb=HEAD#l491
17:03:59  <Alberth> my guess is 'magic'
17:05:11  <frosch123> andythenorth: it halfes the altitude of land at low altitude
17:05:19  <frosch123> while preserving mountatins
17:05:47  <frosch123> so, essentially it turns an average hilly landscape into a flat landscape with some steep mountains in it
17:06:26  <andythenorth> if I set max height levels to 255 and set variety distribution to ‘none’ and terrain type to ‘mountainous'
17:06:38  <andythenorth> then I get a couple of height-level 16 mountains on my map
17:06:57  <frosch123> sounds like that
17:07:32  <andythenorth> ho ho
17:07:46  <andythenorth> if I set height level to 16, I get a reasonable looking map
17:07:56  <andythenorth> but at 32, they’re pathologically flat
17:08:03  <andythenorth> I’ve generated lots
17:08:07  <andythenorth> bug in MHL?
17:10:01  <frosch123> it may be because of the maximum slope
17:10:13  <andythenorth> it’s multi-factorial
17:10:28  <andythenorth> variety distribution other than ‘none’ really kills tropic maps to ‘flat'
17:10:29  <frosch123> it tries to make all land flatter, except for mountains which it tries to make steeper and higher
17:10:46  <frosch123> but you can only climb so many height levels on a short distance
17:10:53  <frosch123> so the high mountain fails
17:11:38  <andythenorth> that makes sense
17:11:39  <frosch123> are your mountains limited by the slopes?
17:12:09  <frosch123> i.e. could they be higher with the same base area?
17:13:04  <andythenorth> I think so
17:13:22  <andythenorth> but not if the base area is being flattened :P
17:13:34  <Alberth> I think that's good up to some point, steep hill up isn't nice playing
17:13:44  <andythenorth> so many factors, it’s hard to draw a strict conclusion on this
17:14:45  <frosch123> do you know what gamma correction is in picture processing?
17:15:00  <andythenorth> approximately
17:16:33  <andythenorth> oh, it’s the curves tool in photoshop
17:16:34  <andythenorth> ok
17:17:03  <andythenorth> some input values are clamped up or down
17:17:18  <frosch123> minimum and maximum remain unmodified
17:17:36  <frosch123> but the values in the middle are either shifted up (arctic) or down (tropic)
17:19:24  <andythenorth> this is so we can have flat deserts, in the Tropic case
17:19:26  <andythenorth> ?
17:19:35  <frosch123> resulting in tropic having mostly low land with peaking hills, and arctic having plateau mountains
17:21:17  <frosch123> well, whatever. the answer to all questions is: 1. map generator preview 2. more map generator controls, which remain unlabeled
17:23:28  <andythenorth> I have a preview :P
17:23:35  <andythenorth> I just hit ‘generate’, and then look at the map
17:23:45  <andythenorth> if I don’t like it, I hit ‘newgame’ in console :P
17:23:46  <andythenorth> solved
17:24:44  <frosch123> yeah, but you have a hard time distingushing what is caused by your settings, and what is caused by randomness
17:25:35  <andythenorth> agreed
17:30:16  <andythenorth> hmm, no South American Town Names :P
17:30:45  <andythenorth> ‘latin american’ of course :P
17:30:47  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
17:30:55  <frosch123> brazilian town names?
17:33:36  <andythenorth> close, but no cigar :)
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17:36:13  <frosch123> moin
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18:15:55  <Terkhen> hello
18:16:41  <andythenorth> hi Terkhen :)
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19:28:30  <greeter> well, it took a lot of fiddling, but i finally managed to import canada's atlantic provinces as a height map, sort of lol
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22:26:54  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:13:30  <drac_boy> hi
23:16:45  <greeter> greetings drac_boy
23:17:02  <drac_boy> hows you again greeter? :)
23:17:37  <greeter> i'm doing great. because of a tutorial i found on the forums, i've been able to import the maritime provinces to openttd :-D you?
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23:18:46  <drac_boy> eh..making maps?
23:19:09  <greeter> kind of. it isn't a great job in my opinion, but it's definitely there lol
23:19:50  <greeter> at the rate this is going, i'm wondering if i'm going to learn c++ just to get onto the dev team
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23:20:31  <drac_boy> well..have fun and don't forget to leave some land space in straight line as to let a player be able to build a rail bridge over to pei :)
23:21:06  <greeter> and cape breton :-P though that's nowhere near as tall an order
23:22:13  <drac_boy> cape breton?
23:22:41  <greeter> yes. because of the highlands and the fact that i've put the height map into the sub arctic climate, i've decided to put a forest there
23:23:14  <drac_boy> cape breton isn't an island :)
23:23:25  <greeter> yes it is
23:24:05  <drac_boy> tbh the two very tiny islands by cape breton are probably too small to even actually put an industry building on even less the rail station tiles
23:24:43  <greeter> there's no tiny islands by cape breton in my map (the image i imported everything from didn't have them to begin with)
23:25:01  <greeter> in fact it was a heck of job to edit the image so that it was prince edward island, not the prince edward islands lol
23:25:31  <greeter> oddly enough it does have sable island, which is basically just a sandbar
23:26:47  <drac_boy> actually its a major enough obstacle for any ship routes so :)
23:27:50  <greeter> there is that lol
23:28:43  <greeter> i did put a lighthouse on it. wouldn't be easy to build a rail link to it, nor would there be a point since it's too small for any industries or a town that would be worthwhile
23:29:14  <drac_boy> don't bother..just make sure pei can have at least 1 or better 2 bridge positions that wouldn't require terraform :)
23:30:00  <greeter> yes, i'll have to look into that, especially since i already added two cities, a town, and a coal power plant (closest thing to a wind farm in this game lol)
23:32:15  <drac_boy> greeter well pei was more of a mixed-industry island early on (and most of the trains were for passengers)
23:32:34  <greeter> indeed
23:32:55  <greeter> today, well, i don't know. none of the atlantic provinces are doing great economically, so i've more or less abandoned realism for that reason alone :-P
23:34:04  <drac_boy> greeter well the only reason pei lost rail link was due to mass containerizing .. and re the new heavyduty road bridge link altogether
23:34:11  <greeter> though i'm still putting a paper mill in saint john, since i used to work there lol
23:34:28  <drac_boy> when that happened CN couldn't make its old claim to "serve all of canada" slogan tho :->
23:34:41  <greeter> true
23:34:58  <greeter> for whatever reason though, canada loves making it hard on railroads
23:35:25  <greeter> we used to have one of the best rail systems in the world, second to maybe the united states. imagine how much cheaper goods and shipping would be if that had been kept up?
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23:38:28  <drac_boy> btw greeter .. there are also these, what you think of the locomotive to the left? :)
23:41:47  <drac_boy> just asking after all
23:42:03  <greeter> i like the style of the one on the right better to be honest
23:44:00  <drac_boy> greeter well the left one was built by gm/emd combo division .. its shown in the later-common 4-axle type but a good chunk of the initial order had been for the special 6-axle variations (basically one extra idler axle on each trucks) for the old light rails that was common on grain-serving rails (not much profit to bother upgrading the rail ratings so ehh yeah)
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23:44:42  <drac_boy> just had a single 1200hp engine so no surprise that a low hood was easier and cheaper to fit on (even if that almost makes it look a bit just like the Alco RS)
23:46:01  <greeter> hmm
23:46:05  <drac_boy> nothing like watching one of these original (6-axle type) unit shoving three grain hopper wagons forward at a regulations-restricted 10kph speed for some time over the old farm route till it could reach heavier duty tracks :)
23:47:35  <greeter> lol i bet
23:49:38  <drac_boy> heres one of these mildly-remote old rails to give you an idea
23:50:07  <drac_boy> if you went further you could sometimes wonder if theres even any ties down there because its all hidden out of view by the old growth of weeds+flowers
23:50:30  <drac_boy> so yeah talk about needing a light-axle-load locomotive for these grain traffics while they still existed
23:51:25  <greeter> indeed. i've seen abandoned tracks that were in better shape
23:52:23  <drac_boy> greeter the funny thing is that during the 1960's a lot of the lines around ontario (specifically south close to toronto) had old wooden bridges so neither the emd GP7 or even the alco units could work them which was the only reason very old non-superheated 4-4-0, 2-6-0, etc steam locomotives were still found waddling around somtimes with only the caboose alone sometimes with one or few mixed freight wagons :)
23:52:48  <greeter> hmm
23:52:52  <drac_boy> one sec...
23:53:04  <greeter> ok
23:55:07  <drac_boy> these kind of little light locomotives (hand fired, "johnny bar" throttle, no roller bearings, greasy old fashioned piston valves, and more .. superheater often optional)
23:55:27  <drac_boy> they only last past the 1930's due to these old low-traffic light lines (and even some into the 1960's)
23:55:31  <drac_boy> :)
23:55:57  <drac_boy> and note that very tiny piston size when compared to just about any other steam locomotives post-war heh
23:57:16  <greeter> definitely looks old school

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