Log for #openttd on 24th October 2015:
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00:00:36  <drac_boy> greeter just for a quick comparison sake .. the locomotive above would had been around 60,000-70,000 lbs wo/tender while the initial diesel-electric switcher diesel locomotive started at 200,000 lbs
00:01:23  <drac_boy> so you can see why for the very little lines that still had daily freights but not enough reason to spend big $ to upper the bridges+rails were keeping the very old locomotives around for a long time while much newer big mainline steam locomotives were being cut up left and right
00:01:40  <drac_boy> anyway thats all I want to tell you for now :)
00:03:06  <greeter> alrighty then
00:05:33  <drac_boy> greeter btw what you think of this at first look?
00:06:43  <greeter> that looks a lot like a rail car that they have in town as part of the railway museum
00:08:49  <drac_boy> heh well its a general purpose diesel-hydraulic locomotive that were built in a sizeable number .. there were also two slight unusual variations, first one being two "permanently" back to back then the other like in that photo had a small windowed turret on roof to allow rearward visibility especially for backward running for example (say no siding at end of route to run locomotive around train with)
00:09:13  <greeter> hmm i see
00:09:18  <drac_boy> listed as DR V36 .. later DB 236
00:10:08  <drac_boy> btw they may not look like much but they did pretty much haul a lot of passengers in their time :) (at a leisure 50kph)
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00:11:12  <greeter> yes, i bet
00:11:17  <drac_boy> heres an unusually short train being shoved on :p
00:11:59  <greeter> looks like it'd be the vip tour. the train is first introduced and a few people were invited for the maiden voyage
00:12:28  <drac_boy> heh this is no vip .. its just simply a line that has little passengers but still someone found enough to keep a daily schedule rolling with :)
00:12:48  <greeter> ah i see
00:13:25  <drac_boy> its possible to find a few examples of that in north america too
00:13:46  <greeter> indeed. i've heard about it with air travel
00:14:05  <drac_boy> B&O had a bit of an extreme one tho .. running a single Budd RDC unit over a route that was 560 miles long ... somehow they seem to have kept finding enough passengers to keep such a very tiny schedule in their book for years
00:14:27  <drac_boy> I mean could you imagine just one single self-powered coach over a long distance with only a few seats each stop? :)
00:14:29  <greeter> i used to be a tourism professional, i'd keep up to date on bizarre happenings like that. got out of it because the work, pay, and hours are all really lousy
00:14:51  <greeter> that'd be weird to see from start to finish for sure
00:15:14  <drac_boy> oh and sleeper services (before pullman stopped existing naturally) could result in certain super-short trains just for the sake of ticket-keeping...
00:15:38  <greeter> lol i see
00:16:05  <drac_boy> so you have something like one locomotive hauling a sleeper wagon from burlington (vermont) to new york (duh) where the one wagon is then added to the standard schedule to go down to florida
00:16:40  <greeter> lol
00:17:32  <Eddi|zuHause> <drac_boy> greeter btw what you think of this at first look? <-- these were used in some push-pull services without the need to have a steering wagon.
00:17:35  <drac_boy> it did work for some time until rising profits cut into things and such "non-stop sleeping" services finally were discounted .. meaning if you had been in burlington later on you would have to find a normal daylight seat from burlington to new york then wait to board the sleeper train from there
00:18:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that kind of luxourious thing was kinda in short supply in early post-war germany
00:18:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so slapping such a dome on top was a cheaper alternative
00:19:08  <greeter> i see. hmm
00:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the kinds of route they serviced were usually taken over by VT95/VT98, though
00:20:08  <drac_boy> greeter you should see some of the old boomer 1920's timetables for the few major northeast city stations in usa .. you would pull your hair crazy when you saw how many swappings was going around :p (nothing like say one train from north arrive at 2:29am and two sleepers removed from it to the only be shoved onto a different train together with freshly-supplied diner wagon to leave at 2:46am
00:20:38  <greeter> oh yeah, i could believe that lol
00:20:53  <drac_boy> these station shunter locomotives sure earned their keep with a lot of hustling around .. especially sometimes with very short time allocations
00:21:44  <greeter> lol i bet
00:22:13  <greeter> i applied for a job with cn rail earlier this year. glad i didn't get it now lol. course i wouldn't have been doing any of that anyway
00:22:40  <drac_boy> greeter btw these kind of locomotives were the usual type you would find when you visited busy stations during the 1920-1950's period
00:22:59  <drac_boy> small yet nimble (and all engine weight over driver axle .. no dead axles)
00:23:00  <greeter> i do like the looks of those
00:23:17  <drac_boy> greeter btw there is one related funny fact about them...
00:23:45  <Eddi|zuHause> they look weirdly short somewh
00:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> *somehow
00:23:59  <greeter> oh?
00:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> also, why is the tank round?
00:24:54  <greeter> that i don't know
00:25:24  <drac_boy> they could throw wagons around better than any diesel locomotives could if they had to heh .. the real reason tho is that when they're reversing the steam pressure is at normal level but when throttle shuts off to coast over the switch and eventually stop .. the pressure gets high .. then when the switch is reset the silly locomotive could scald forward like a cat's tail stomped by a rocker chair
00:26:12  <greeter> i see
00:26:37  <drac_boy> eddi...round tanks were pretty normal on some railroads due to a few factors including lower cost
00:26:51  <drac_boy> they were called Vanderbilt for one ... not sure if theres more names in other places for them
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00:27:47  <drac_boy> oh well wiki says this: Compared to rectangular tenders, cylindrical Vanderbilt tenders were stronger, lighter, and held more fuel in relation to surface area.
00:28:06  <drac_boy> not surprising seeing that the tank shape often is higher than what many box shapes apparently were
00:28:09  <greeter> i see
00:28:32  <drac_boy> also with boxy tanks you needed lot of braces inside to hold the sides .. the round one had very little
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00:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the main point is that rectangular shapes just hold more, given the same limited loading gauge
00:29:21  <drac_boy> also in that photo of the Southern one .. you can't see any bunker because naturally .. thats an oil-fired locomotive .. so it has two liquids behind it technically speaking :)
00:29:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that thought did go through my head, yes.
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00:30:28  <drac_boy> oil firing was a bit common in the west part of usa .. partially due to lack of coal over the long ardic terrain
00:31:27  <drac_boy> it was a different skill tho..especially to keep the oil a bit warm but not hot (otherwise hot oil doesn't exactly pump really well) .. with coal you could just jab shovel in and throw it into firebox
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00:32:11  <drac_boy> mind you a few locomotives had been converted between either but many of the times the grates and more had to be changed to retain good efficency tho
00:33:18  <drac_boy> greeter about steam pressure and diesel .. would you believe that this was why SP commuter trains in calfornia were still steam hauled for a while longer than most other railroads eh? :)
00:33:40  <drac_boy> they had a lot of steam locomotives knocked off the mainline that they could reuse for almost no cost after all
00:33:56  <greeter> hmm
00:34:49  <drac_boy> even the infamous GS-1 (this ) could be found in commuter services long after diesel stole their usual mainline tasks
00:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> excess pressure sounds like a dangerous move
00:38:48  <drac_boy> eddi well it was a everyday occurance tho
00:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not a contradiction...
00:44:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it's an everyday occurance that people run 20km/h above the speed limit...
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00:50:09  <greeter> hmm sounds like you read the same report i did the other day
01:02:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i probably did not.
01:03:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't recall reading any reports about speed limits in the recent past
01:06:04  <greeter> ah i see
01:12:42  <drac_boy> greeter btw I dunno if we talked about this before but hows this for something that looks like a big body on small legs heh
01:12:57  <drac_boy> its narrow gauge railroad btw
01:13:56  <greeter> don't recall this one
01:15:36  <drac_boy> greeter well that railway was one that had one side of its network almost right where the berlin wall went up .. even with that it still managed to survive obviously (right now its mainly a tourist one last I recall)
01:16:05  <greeter> hmm
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01:19:02  <drac_boy> greeter also if I recall (may be a different railway I'll have to check) one of these locomotive was technically..well how do I put this...on paper it was listed as a rebuild but in reality DRG actually built it almost all brand new
01:19:17  <drac_boy> talk about a "new" steam locomotive in the 1980's heh :)
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01:20:11  <greeter> hmm i see
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01:22:21  <greeter> well, i'm gonna head out for now. take care, see you later
01:22:37  <drac_boy> have fun greeting anyone else outside greeter :P
01:22:40  <drac_boy> heh bye anyway ;)
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01:24:47  <drac_boy> eddi while we're on the subject hows this for a tender?
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06:34:13  <andythenorth> o/
06:34:38  <andythenorth> railtypes
06:36:11  <tipsyTentacle> oi
06:51:27  <peter1138> roadtypes
07:03:56  <andythenorth> mornington crescent
07:04:07  <andythenorth> also how many railtypes is too many?
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07:09:57  <Wolf01> o/
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07:16:20  <andythenorth> hmm
07:16:25  <andythenorth> 7 railtypes seems like a lot
07:16:58  <tipsyTentacle> 2 railtypes is a lot! hehehehehe
07:39:45  <andythenorth> hmm
07:40:52  <tipsyTentacle> :D
07:40:53  <tipsyTentacle>
08:00:09  * andythenorth looks
08:01:33  <andythenorth> ho, what industry grf is that?  PBI?
08:01:37  <andythenorth> sprites are broken :)
08:10:28  <tipsyTentacle> ? They are?
08:11:28  <tipsyTentacle> Town and Industries - Basic Industries is the grf i believe.
08:18:07  <Wolf01> mmmh, i just updated to factorio 0.12, the new changes are nice and most of them were needed (the transport belts work better now), but i can't understand if the red inserter pickup/drop was drastically changed
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11:32:10  <andythenorth> who controls the schema for railtypes?
11:32:13  <andythenorth>
11:32:47  <andythenorth> nvm, found the answer here
11:35:47  <andythenorth> some
11:37:43  <andythenorth> I am working on South American trains for Iron Horse
11:38:28  <andythenorth> there are two gauges: ‘broad’ (mostly Indian 5’6”) and ‘narrow’ (mostly metre / 3’6”)
11:38:46  <andythenorth> the actual numbers don’t matter much, realism is not paramount
11:39:58  <andythenorth> what’s the best way to implement this in the railtypes schema?
11:45:59  <andythenorth> I was going to just ignore ‘broad’ and treat that as default rails
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12:40:36  <frosch123> andythenorth: i think it's all eddi's fault
12:41:44  <andythenorth> all of it?
12:41:46  <andythenorth> seems harsh
12:47:47  <andythenorth> bbl
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12:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ... at least a significant part
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12:51:36  <Eddi|zuHause> how come every time i want to reply to andy, he left like 3 minutes ago?
12:58:08  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: He deliberately says controversial things just before he plans to leave, so he doesn't have to argue about them? :P
12:58:57  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: but the original question was over 1 hour ago. there was plenty of time for me to look in here and answer
12:59:20  <Eddi|zuHause> so, something about andy leaving compels me to look here.
13:01:28  <frosch123> maybe there is only space for one top-spammer at a time
13:08:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i was never top (in number of lines)
13:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> at some point i was top in number of words, but then i kinda fell behind
13:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> generally, my words per line ratio is just too high :p
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14:40:55  <Alberth> moin
14:44:38  <LadyHawk> just picked up and played ottd again... makes me wanna update n see what other goodies been added
14:44:45  <LadyHawk> ;o
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15:05:55  <Alberth> more heights, mostly :)
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15:49:56  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i tried train fever again, but i keep bumping into the annoying bits about track geometry and planning. plus weird economy model side effects
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15:55:12  <Alberth> so back to not playing openttd,  I guess :p
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16:04:34  <Wolf01> it could have been a better game, i hope they don't abandon it and fix at least the double track bridges/tunnels construction
16:04:35  <Eddi|zuHause> also, lack of track planning....
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16:17:35  <LadyHawk> is there anywhere i can find high traffic truck station layouts?
16:18:07  <Wolf01> just put enough parallel roadstops
16:19:22  <LadyHawk> i thought that was the answer but it creates choke points
16:20:53  <LadyHawk> just figured if there's layouts of people that managed to avoid the choke points
16:21:09  <LadyHawk> so i dont have to sit here and tell a vehicle to turn around every once in a while :p
16:23:07  <Eddi|zuHause> so, out of the million possible combinations that you might currently have ended up with, we're supposed to just guess where your problem is?
16:23:57  <LadyHawk> i did not ask for help with a problem... i asked if there's a link or whatever to some road vehicle loading bay layouts so i can get ideas
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16:25:40  <Wolf01> also road vehicles are self-unjamming, if they want to take a road is because that is the best one, if they are "jammed" you are using too many vehicles or too few stations
16:29:05  <Eddi|zuHause> well, part of the problem is that road vehicles are not properly load balancing
16:29:08  <LadyHawk> thanks for confirming that one, i had gotten an impression of them doing something a lil different
16:29:57  <LadyHawk> just high amounts of traffic on a single bit of road doesn't always leave the truck enough time to decide to move to a different bay, or give the truck a bit of road to turn and go elsewhere.. it's the layout i want to perfect along with this behaviour
16:34:05  <LadyHawk> -- example high volume of traffic that would enter a single station at once
16:34:22  <LadyHawk> -- current station layout to accomodate truck behaviour
16:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you would need to extdend the pathfinder to take the current position of road vehicles into account, but that is not really practical
16:35:21  <LadyHawk> yeah, extend pathfinder range causes more harm than good in heavy traffic situations i found
16:35:48  <LadyHawk> you want traffic as blind as possible otherwise they all think the other traffic is poisonous and go haywire
16:35:49  <LadyHawk> lol
16:36:00  <LadyHawk> without breaking the stations anyways
16:36:05  <LadyHawk> delicate balance
16:36:12  <LadyHawk> reason i keep coming back to this game
16:36:40  <Wolf01> that setup is really slow, you should use road stops instead of loading bays
16:36:45  <Wolf01>
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16:41:02  <LadyHawk> i've tried to use those road stops but i couldn't work out how to build it on a large loading and unloading station... if 1 truck loads, 1 whole line of trucks is blocked off and i couldn't work out how to build it in such a way the other trucks avoid and go elsewhere, but kept queueing up.. litterally creating a 1-truck-blocks-a-hundred-trucks situation
16:41:43  <LadyHawk> fatal when the loading truck waits for goods, and effectively blocked off all trucks wishing to unload
16:42:05  <LadyHawk> with loading bays that problem doesn't exist since the truck is 'out of the way'
16:42:36  * LadyHawk digs link some more hoping to find more layout ideas
16:42:45  <LadyHawk> to help me with those stops..
16:43:22  <Wolf01> did you messed up the pathfinding? i have no problems with that kind of layout and trucks automatically chose a new roadstop if the first one is busy
16:44:51  <LadyHawk> i have all loading trucks set to full load before departing, and pathfinding untouched.. the trouble comes in when you cram 100 trucks on a 12 bay station, sooner or later they're going to kinda accumulate in 1 place
16:44:52  <Eddi|zuHause> a) split loading and unloading stations
16:45:06  <LadyHawk> lol
16:45:29  <Eddi|zuHause> b) take the lowest example from the wiki page, but make it more compact, and reverse the directions (middle path goes in, side paths go out)
16:46:18  <LadyHawk> interesting
16:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have the middle path go in, you delay the decision which side to go on as late as possible
16:46:50  <LadyHawk> all go in through middle should let them behave as they would by picking the free stop
16:47:05  <Wolf01> i don't even use the one way roads, the trucks can enter from which side they want so both lanes are usable, also this allow you to cram even more vehicles in the area
16:47:15  <Eddi|zuHause> still, you will have usually two trucks try to head to the same free bay
16:47:23  <LadyHawk> yeah
16:47:46  <LadyHawk> would having 2 stops in sequence help with that at all?
16:47:52  <Wolf01> no
16:48:00  <LadyHawk> with the bottom wiki layout.. reversed
16:48:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: in theory, yes. but that violates the "as late as possible" rule
16:48:08  <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: no.
16:48:21  <LadyHawk> ok
16:49:24  <LadyHawk> as late as possible = best since that avoids queueing at high traffic... early choices leads to trucks not deviding themselves properly
16:49:36  <LadyHawk> creating a block sooner or later
16:49:51  <LadyHawk> i'm going to try that Eddi|zuHause
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16:49:54  <Wolf01> also road stops allow articulated vehicles, which can't even enter the loading bays
16:49:57  <LadyHawk> thank you
16:50:43  <LadyHawk> imma build a custom map, build it all up and see what happens beyond its limits.. just for fun XD
17:02:19  <LadyHawk> already had a map, just built the layout, time to see what happens next
17:02:21  <LadyHawk> =)
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17:16:54  <LadyHawk> this is incredible
17:17:44  <LadyHawk> enough trucks entering that build to take away 1k tonnes of coal in 1 go and they're only using 6-7 stops
17:18:34  <LadyHawk> on occasion i have 3 trucks entering 1 stop so 1 is waiting but not often too
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17:23:52  <LadyHawk> it needs a rebuild with a double road going to/from... it's the road that cant handle the traffic, not the station o_O
17:25:12  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ?
17:25:22  <Eddi|zuHause> that's me.
17:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: one of the two types of rail should be "standard", no matter what gauges you use.
17:27:25  <Eddi|zuHause> for more detailed answer i have not enough information.
17:30:01  <andythenorth> as a basic answer, it’s a good one
17:32:18  <LadyHawk>
17:32:36  <LadyHawk> look at the capacity of that layout.. lmao
17:32:56  <andythenorth> RVs are....special
17:32:58  <LadyHawk> 2 bits of 1 way leading out where all the trucks are coming in
17:33:10  <LadyHawk> the rest completely compact
17:33:24  <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: yes, that's pretty much what i meant.
17:33:55  <LadyHawk> just way too many stops there lol, thanks a ton! :D
17:35:13  <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: if you use ctrl+click to place the stops, you can alternate a stop from the loading and one from the unloading station, to keep the flows separate
17:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause> it may somewhat help with untangling some jams
17:36:27  <LadyHawk> i've been using ctrlclicks in that game to add spread out rail stations to increase reach -- more coal mines
17:36:38  <LadyHawk> hang on
17:37:03  <LadyHawk> hmm... so you can place 2 seperate stations right next to eachother
17:37:13  <LadyHawk> didn't know that bit, thanks lol.. learned 2 things so far
17:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:37:26  <LadyHawk> a way to get around the error message! XD
17:38:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the error message is a bid old-fashoned
17:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it should just pop up the station selection window, as if ctrl was pressed, when it's ambiguous
17:40:18  <LadyHawk> that would be great imo
17:41:29  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what’s the rationale for always including ‘standard’ rail?
17:41:51  <LadyHawk> when the trucks exit this station.. for some reason the ones coming from the left have priority over the ones coming from the right... must figure out why
17:42:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: from the perspective of the track set or from the perspective of the train set?
17:42:22  <andythenorth> train set
17:42:29  <LadyHawk> bottom part of the station ends up blocked up
17:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the basic question here is, what happens when the track set does not provide the desired tracks?
17:43:28  <andythenorth> yeah, that’s what I hoped you’d say
17:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. if the track set only provides standard gauge, do you want both types of trains available, or leave one out, or provide no trains at all?
17:44:09  <andythenorth> I forget, where is the vehicle<->railtype compatibility determined?  Labels are compatible to other labels?
17:44:18  <Eddi|zuHause> if the set provides standard and narrow gauge, or standard and broad gauge, how do you want to map the two types to the provided tracks?
17:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the track set may define compatibility and equivalence between types. the train set can set alternative types, if the desired type is not available
17:45:17  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27411 trunk/src/lang/korean.txt (2015-10-24 19:45:11 +0200 )
17:45:18  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:19  <DorpsGek> korean - 1 changes by telk5093
17:45:58  <andythenorth> ok, there’s nothing to change imo, I leave ‘broad gauge’ as ‘standard’ rails
17:45:59  <Eddi|zuHause> so, your broad gauge train could have (in the railtype translation table): [Bxxx, Sxxx, RAIL]
17:46:39  <Eddi|zuHause> means "use broad gauge if available, use standard gauge as fallback, and RAIL if only default types are available"
17:47:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the narrow gauge could be defined as [Nxxx], which means it's only available if actual narrow gauge is provided, otherwise it's disabled
17:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause> or you could do [Nxxx, RAIL] to have them mixed
17:48:03  <andythenorth> I think I just leave them disabled
17:50:06  * andythenorth wonders how to do electrified narrow gauge
17:50:15  <Eddi|zuHause> NxxE
17:50:38  <Eddi|zuHause> (if my memory serves me right)
17:50:39  <andythenorth> oh I already handled that appparently
17:50:48  <andythenorth> ELNG: [NAAE, NBAN, ENLW, ENHI, ELNG]
17:50:53  <andythenorth> is that a copy-paste from CETS?
17:50:54  <andythenorth> :P
17:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
17:51:36  * andythenorth contemplates rack rail
17:51:45  <Eddi|zuHause> NBAN doesn't really make sense there
17:51:56  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't know what ENLW and ENHI are
17:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause> ELNG is some older version of narrow gauge, which people may or may not use, you should probably keep that in there
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17:58:42  <andythenorth> NBAN does not make sense indeed
17:59:56  <Terkhen> hello
18:01:13  <andythenorth> hola
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18:02:59  <andythenorth> hmm
18:03:21  * andythenorth needs a railtype grf with electrified narrow gauge in it
18:04:44  <Eddi|zuHause> snail had a test grf, i don't know if that contained electrified narrow gauge
18:08:21  <Snail> yes, it does
18:08:29  <Snail> catenary and third rail...
18:14:33  <Snail> the labels I defined are NAAN, NAAE, NAA3, NRAN, NRAE, NBAN
18:14:57  <Snail> normal, catenary, third rail, rackrail, rackrail + catenary, and “high speed"
18:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> NRAN is an interesting construct i haven't really considered. is that documented anywhere?
18:18:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i always assumed rack rail would be encoded in the last letter
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18:24:08  <LadyHawk> oh now it's just pretty to watch... double road to/from.. slightly off entering the station :(
18:25:55  <andythenorth> Snail: so how have you handled rack rail with respect to performance?  o_O
18:28:49  <Snail> Eddi: I used the second letter because it identifies the max speed
18:29:01  <Snail> and rackrail usually has a very low max speed (around 20ish km/h)
18:29:34  <Snail> andy: I boosted the rackrail engines’ TE when driving on rackrail track
18:29:53  <Snail> effectively, this gives them a very slight advantage on uphill tracks
18:30:26  <Snail> but to keep the max speed to a realistic value, it had to be 25 km/h
18:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it's difficult to balance with the limited game physics, i presume
18:30:34  <Snail> Eddi: very true
18:30:38  <andythenorth> does it have gameplay effect? o_O
18:30:46  <Snail> hehe, well a very limited one
18:31:02  <Snail> it’s there for historical correctness and variety
18:31:17  <Snail> but doesn’t really have any tangible gameplay advantage
18:31:53  <Snail> to make rackrails really useful we should have different steep grades in OTTD
18:34:37  <Snail> still, it gives me a valid excuse to code push/pull in very early trains :P
18:35:58  <andythenorth> :)
18:37:02  <Wipe> is there a 'faster' way to refresh screen content, other than MakeWholeScreenDirty() / Window::SetDirty() / etc?
18:39:21  <Wipe> or some example how could i change MainWindow::OnPaint() to make "OpenTTD" text draw smoothier if intro viewport is following a vehicle
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18:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause> make the text a real window?
18:53:49  <andythenorth> Snail: where would I find your test grf? o_O Can’t find it with forum search ;)
18:54:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i have one in my PM inbox, from 3 years ago
18:55:13  <andythenorth> actually so do I :)
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19:45:16  <Snail> andy: I guess it hasn’t changed much since :p
19:45:26  <Snail> I’ve worked on the trains lately, not much on the tracks
19:49:38  <LadyHawk> maybe a very silly question but 'max tractive effort' value on trains... what is this?
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19:55:39  <LadyHawk> nm
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20:13:13  <LadyHawk> if i understand it right it's the slippyness of the train
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20:18:16  <FLHerne> LadyHawk: Pretty much
20:18:51  <FLHerne> On some vehicles the max TE might be below the limit of friction, but in OTTD the distinction doesn't matter
20:19:10  <FLHerne> Basically, acceleration at low speeds and tolerance of hills
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20:54:57  <andythenorth> @seen danmack
20:54:57  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <DanMacK> @seen andythenorth
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20:55:16  <Wolf01> new record?
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21:12:00  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, really the worst part about train fever track building: trying to build bridges over tracks.
21:12:37  <Wolf01> pfff, i had to build a tunnel under a railway bridge to accomodate a highway -.-
21:12:48  <greeter> i find that only hurts if they aren't your tracks
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21:12:56  <greeter> lol
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21:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause> in train fever they can't be not your tracks. it's a single player game.
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21:14:40  <greeter> oh, i didn't know you were talking about a different game
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21:36:48  <greeter> here's a stupid question... how tolerant is openttd of town names that use special characters or accented letters?
21:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> there shouldn't be a lot of problems with that, as long as you do not use the builtin font
21:37:41  <greeter> do not use the builtin font?
21:38:20  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, you can safely use all characters that your language already uses elsewhere
21:38:47  <greeter> ah. well i play in english, but the town name i want to enter is in french
21:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that should work
21:39:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but if you want chinese or arabic town names, you can only reliably expect that to work
21:39:50  <greeter> alrighty then. now to figure out how to type in the characters
21:39:57  <Eddi|zuHause> if you change the font in openttd.cfg
21:40:05  <greeter> ok, well french and english both use the same alphabet, so because of that i'll be safe?
21:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> basically, yes
21:40:37  <__ln__> as do english and polish, but i suspect that's less safe
21:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> did anyone make an emoji town name set yet?
21:41:39  <greeter> ha, that would be entertaining to see
21:42:05  <Eddi|zuHause> might fit in well with toyland :p
21:42:36  <greeter> hmm, there's no simple copy/paste for town names it seems lol
21:44:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the alt+numpad method should work
21:44:32  <Eddi|zuHause> (assuming you are on windows)
21:44:42  <greeter> umm, nope lol. i'll need to find another method
21:45:12  <greeter> there's a program out there somewhere that'll do it
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21:57:28  <tipsyTentacle> I got it to display Chinese i think
21:58:46  <greeter> it worked :-D
21:59:09  <greeter> thank goodness most of the towns on this map have english names lol, that was a curse to input
22:03:53  <greeter> say, do trees also randomly grow on the map if i'm just editing in the scenario builder?
22:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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22:11:44  <greeter> ah, ok. good thing i plan to have lots of trees then lol
22:12:18  <Eddi|zuHause> there's actually two ways a tree can grow. first is, an existing tree may spawn a new tree on the same or an adjacent tile. the second is, regularly there will be a random tree placed on a random place on the map. this latter one you can disable for the scenario editor
22:13:02  <greeter> hmm shouldn't be a big deal. the last thing i'm going to do for this scenario is cover the whole map in trees anyway
22:19:08  <Eddi|zuHause> trees add difficulty to the game, as you can't do a lot of construction before the town utterly hates you...
22:20:44  <greeter> that is true. i think it'll make up for how flat i had to make the map to import it though :-S pretty much took all the detail out of it, save for a few large lakes
22:22:08  <Eddi|zuHause> ... we have so many heightlevels now...
22:22:57  <FLHerne> The problem now is the 45° slopes though
22:23:32  <FLHerne> Anything that actually uses all those heightlevels ends up being slopes and pretty much nothing else
22:24:06  <greeter> that was the issue i had. and when i tried "flattening" the map somewhat, i had a map that was either flat, or water, and a very even mixture of both. two two land tiles touched lol
22:25:23  <greeter> that said i did just finally figure out how the height change tools in the scenario editor work
22:25:30  <FLHerne> On a 512² map, getting to the top heightlevel from sealevel requires a single mountain the width of the map :-/
22:26:44  <greeter> that would be far from ideal :-S
22:27:09  <greeter> thankfully the areas i had a height map of don't have huge variations in elevation. but the change in elevation is extremely requent
22:27:16  <greeter> all elevations were 0 to 800 meters above sea level
22:30:08  <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: yes. cliffs would be nice.
22:30:33  <greeter> cliffs would make for easier tunneling to say the least
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22:41:19  <Terkhen> good night
22:43:51  <greeter> night
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22:46:55  <greeter> well i just asked the scenario editor for a small town and it gave me one with a population of 0 lol
22:50:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that happens when there's no space to construct something, it only makes a church, or it makes a building that is still under construction
22:50:46  <greeter> well 0 was pretty close to what i wanted lol
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23:04:47  <greeter> it'd be quicker if i got a hard copy of the maps i need lol
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23:09:30  <greeter> must admit though, whatever size i click, the scenario builder gets the population right where i want it almost all the time
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23:27:56  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:33:35  <greeter> i hope anyone else who plays this scenario remembers pei being as flat as i do :-S lol
23:35:49  <tipsyTentacle> pei?
23:36:17  <greeter> the area i'm working on in the scenario builder right now, short for prince edward island, canada's smallest province
23:37:55  <tipsyTentacle> hm, i wonder if there is a california map
23:38:24  <greeter> only one way to find out
23:38:49  <greeter> to be honest, i'm not sure there'd be any demand for the map i'm working on, especially since it isn't all that good, but i figure i won't know till i make one and put it on the forums
23:41:57  <tipsyTentacle> Well if you like it, then someone else surely will (:
23:42:03  <tipsyTentacle> plus, it's good practice.
23:42:47  <tipsyTentacle> ... is there a way to make a script that everytime you try to build in the Bay, you get NIMBY people to come out and protest and block your rails? Town authority can never be higher than poor.
23:43:08  <tipsyTentacle> and if you try to build from SF to LA, all of a sudden, all your funding will disappear.
23:43:18  <tipsyTentacle> #california train problems
23:43:52  <greeter> try the atlantic canada scenario i'm working on. it isn't complete unless there's no passenger train service and NIMBY at funding industries :-P
23:44:54  <tipsyTentacle> Perfect.
23:45:06  <tipsyTentacle> Time to destroy all NIMBY towns and replace them with trees
23:45:31  * tipsyTentacle is an evil eminent domain dicator
23:45:34  <greeter> in fact in the largest city here in new brunswick, they recently banned the use of train whistles
23:45:58  <tipsyTentacle> I can kinda understand
23:45:58  <greeter> yes, makes perfect sense, rail usage has tripled in the past five years so let's make it less safe
23:46:23  <tipsyTentacle> they're so loud here. when i moved to my uni, i was what, 2-3 miles away from the tracks?
23:46:28  <tipsyTentacle> I can still hear their whistles :|
23:46:48  <tipsyTentacle> Kept me up at night for a while, but now i don't even notice.
23:47:11  <greeter> i'm 13 kilometers from the tracks and i still hear the whistles here, but that's a consequence of choosing to live close to train tracks
23:47:30  <greeter> i'm thinking it'll only take one rail accident in which someone's car is destroyed or in which people are seriously harmed before they revisit the no whistle policy
23:47:49  <tipsyTentacle> oh, 2-3 miles is roughly ... 6 to 9 km?
23:48:01  <greeter> 3 miles is about 5 kilometers
23:48:04  <tipsyTentacle> oh
23:48:13  <tipsyTentacle> that's so loud oh my gosh
23:48:16  <tipsyTentacle> how do you live
23:48:21  <greeter> 13 kilometers is about 8 miles. i used to live much closer to the tracks, but even at a few hundred meters, i barely noticed the whistles
23:48:27  <tipsyTentacle> ._.
23:48:43  <greeter> i was more likely to notice the movement of the ground as heavy freight went over nearby tracks
23:48:49  <tipsyTentacle> My hometown doesn't have frieght trains going by anymore, so it's allllll quiet.
23:49:15  <tipsyTentacle> but we have that subway /light rail system. Which is thankfully pretty quiet.
23:49:18  <greeter> that's all we have here. it used to be mostly loads of potash, but now more and more oil is being shipped by rail
23:49:31  <greeter> considering the city has the largest oil refinery in the country, that does make quite a bit of sense
23:49:39  <tipsyTentacle> mhm that makes sense
23:49:56  <tipsyTentacle> I dunno what we were shipping, but we were relatively close to one of the west coast's biggest ports
23:49:57  <greeter> but the lac megantic rail disaster was with a train that was ultimately coming this way. i'm surprised even with that in mind, there's so much opposition to pipelines for oil
23:51:22  <greeter> ah yes, that would result in a lot of rail traffic for sure
23:51:22  <tipsyTentacle> they probably don't like a constant stream of explosives
23:51:35  <tipsyTentacle> and would prefer that the explosives stay only for a few minutes each time
23:51:35  <tipsyTentacle> :P
23:51:42  <greeter> lol perhaps
23:52:09  <greeter> the pipeline would be good for people like me. they always need electricians when building those things
23:53:01  <tipsyTentacle> Hehe I am a software engineer. I suppose I could get a job writing software to handle the pipes?
23:53:49  <greeter> perhaps so. they will need people like that on staff too
23:53:58  <greeter> and best of all i can wire up your office :-P
23:57:08  <tipsyTentacle> hehe sounds like a healthy economy is going on down in... Pei, was it?
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23:57:39  <greeter> well i'm in new brunswick, but pei is where i'm working on this map right now. i'm basically doing canada's maritime provinces, with a few additions
23:57:55  <tipsyTentacle> Interesting
23:58:05  <tipsyTentacle> I find maps with seperate islands to be pretty fun
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23:58:54  <greeter> well, this one has pei, the magdalen islands, and newfoundland, which is much larger than those other ones
23:59:13  <tipsyTentacle> :D
23:59:23  <tipsyTentacle> I'll def try out your map when you're done~
23:59:36  <greeter> there is also cape breton island, but you could throw a rock to it from the mainland

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