Log for #openttd on 6th November 2015:
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00:03:37  *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
00:03:40  <drac_boy> hi
00:03:49  <Wolf01> \o
00:04:07  <greeter> greetings drac_boy
00:04:42  <drac_boy> so I thought the tram idea seem like a good one for mixed town/country rails then I realized I didn't think of one silly snag...the doors are often only on one side so...oh well scratch that idea :->  (at least I'm still doing a little bit of work at times on my computer grf pixels so ehh)
00:04:48  <drac_boy> hi wolf and greeter, hows you two?
00:05:07  <greeter> i'm doing alright. you?
00:05:18  <Wolf01> tired, right now
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00:07:12  <greeter> that's never fun
00:07:29  * drac_boy throws a pillow at greeter then
00:07:30  <drac_boy> :)
00:07:47  <greeter> hmm? what was that for?
00:10:26  <drac_boy> who said sleeping was boring? but nevermind that anyhow
00:10:34  <drac_boy> what you doing atm yourself greeter?
00:10:50  <greeter> i'm working on a scenario that i hope to publish to the openttd forums at some point
00:16:20  <drac_boy> nice
00:17:16  <greeter> i guess. could have done a better job cropping the height map i used, which itself wasn't all that great to begin with. meh
00:18:38  <drac_boy> mm
00:19:22  <greeter> basically i decided it would be easier if i just made everything flat, and add hills as necessary lol
00:20:22  <drac_boy> :)
00:20:46  <greeter> it's sub arctic so hills are the only ways to get forests. oh well
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00:23:21  <drac_boy> funny re you mentioning arctic...I may have to buy a bit of modeller's snow later :->
00:24:23  <greeter> hmm? what's that?
00:25:21  <drac_boy> eg
00:25:45  <greeter> sweet
00:27:35  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:33:11  <drac_boy> greeter or how about this?
00:33:39  <greeter> that looks very realistic
00:34:53  <greeter> hmm, i just googled a place name i want to add to the scenario, and apparently the postal code there starts with B0T, wonder how many B0Ts will wind up playing the scenario
00:38:27  <drac_boy> heh well its a real model locomotive .. not the often-usual cheap usa plastic ones
00:38:38  <drac_boy> greeter..heh I dunno :)
00:39:42  <greeter> there seemed to be something about it which indicated to me that it was a higher quality than most models. knowing nothing about models or trains though i really couldn't say what tipped me off though
00:42:33  <drac_boy> greeter mm well this is an older (but still very similar today) usa locomotive to give you an idea
00:42:42  <drac_boy> almost no detail and hey wheres the handrails at all
00:43:46  <greeter> even i can tell there's a definite difference
00:44:52  <drac_boy> greeter but of course if you are one of these rivet counters then this is your kind of trains:
00:45:15  <drac_boy> a lot of them come 'factory' but sometimes you can buy ones that are already painted for you too (weathering usually still has to be done by the customers themself tho)
00:45:24  <drac_boy> these brass stuff cost big $ tho
00:46:36  <greeter> i bet. hmm
00:47:24  <FLHerne> You Americans have it much harder with all those fiddly pipes
00:47:41  <FLHerne> British locos tend to have them all hidden away
00:47:57  <greeter> lol i see
00:48:01  <Eddi|zuHause> german locos have all that stuff visible
00:48:06  <greeter> i don't know much about trains like i say. not my stock and trade
00:49:27  <greeter> i might be the guy someday who wires the train for electricity, but that'd be all i'd have to do with it
00:49:53  <drac_boy> flherne..its actually easier on the contrast...
00:50:22  <FLHerne> drac_boy: That brass model looks a *** to paint though
00:50:23  <drac_boy> the 3-cylinder steam that alco built .. some railroads managed to rebuilt them into 2-cylinder outside the depression year due to the frequent mechanical access issues with the center cylinder
00:50:39  <drac_boy> ah..model painting..yeah...I agree with that :-s
00:51:28  <drac_boy> btw a few railroads did try rebuild wreck-damaged locomotives into "british style" but more than often they were scrapped before WWII or got rebuilt with more conventional pumps/etc on the sides
00:51:53  <drac_boy> one of the main problem with the 'british style' was lack of running boards
00:53:22  <drac_boy> eddi I dunno if its just me or not but there was something I still wonder about german steam runby photos they almost always seem to be pouring steam out of the cylinder bottom cocks nonstop
00:53:34  <drac_boy> let me see if I can find one example again now
00:54:25  <greeter> sometimes real places are a lousy basis for a scenario lol
00:54:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not understood any of those words.
00:55:13  <drac_boy> greeter heh
00:56:26  <greeter> i have plenty of towns but, as in the place this is based off of, they tend to be highly concentrated in some areas and totally absent from others
01:01:33  <greeter> hmm, and sometimes i'm missing info too. the last population figures i can find from this town come from the 1931 census, sure it'll be fine if the info is only 84 years out of date :-P
01:02:48  <drac_boy> heh
01:03:47  <greeter> with any luck this scenario won't be horribly panned by critics lol
01:05:10  <drac_boy> say greeter I was thinking about the german photos I found then realized I may know something a bit different for you ... you want see a steam locomotive that has smoke coming "from somewhere else other than near the front of boilertop"? :)
01:05:25  <greeter> sure
01:06:20  <drac_boy> here you go greeter
01:07:19  <greeter> hmm, i somehow like the look of that train better
01:07:24  <drac_boy> it was a modest feedwater preheat system (using exhaust's heat) .. worked well on some locomotives and netted no gains on other (such as the britian 9F's that were modified with these)
01:07:42  <drac_boy> thats why the smoke is off the side near cab instead of at front
01:08:37  <drac_boy> and heres the uk version that later were stripped
01:08:37  <greeter> ok
01:08:48  <drac_boy> a bit too much smoke in front of the engineer/driver there tho heheh
01:09:05  <greeter> lol i see
01:09:40  <drac_boy> greeter and if you want it more "chunky" then the italian already has one for you
01:09:49  <drac_boy> looks like a big can slapped onto the side :)
01:09:59  <greeter> hmm
01:10:02  <greeter> it does
01:10:08  <drac_boy> and I guess the piston-to-preheater piping is more visible too
01:11:58  <drac_boy> greeter on yet another topic hows this look to you?
01:12:22  <greeter> looks really old. any chance that was taken in pennsylvania?
01:13:57  <drac_boy> nope .. across usa but mainly around mid-west ... Southern Pacific apparently had issues with long tunnels sitting on grade so since they were oil-fired anyway the solution was to simply turn the locomotive itself around and run it cabforward (hence the official nickname for them being that)
01:14:24  <greeter> ok
01:14:31  <drac_boy> doubleheading still meant the second crew got a lot of carbon into their face .. but ehh I dunno about the truth behind cab conditions tho
01:14:51  <greeter> indeed
01:16:32  <drac_boy> anyhow I'm going for a bit now...have fun with your scenario map allright? :)
01:16:59  <greeter> thanks, will try lol
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01:18:02  <drac_boy> and humm yeah may as well as post this now for others anyway ... seem every time I find a photo of german steam under speed it always seem like the piston cocks are partially open all the times .. oh well one day I'll figure that out!
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01:33:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid i have no clue about that part of steam engine technology
01:34:24  <greeter> hmm well you're a step ahead of me then probably :-P
01:34:37  <greeter> course i'm of the opinion that all trains should be electric :-P
02:22:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you're in luck then, germany has had extensive electric networks for over a century now
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03:47:52  <greeter> wish we could say that here in canada
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04:47:55  <greeter> ok maybe this map is too big. in real life it takes 2 hours to drive between these two cities at 110 kilometers per hour. it took a train at 88 almost 6 months :-S
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05:01:42  <Supercheese> Time... is an illusion. Especially in OTTD
05:02:03  <Supercheese> Does anybody really know what time it is? / Does anybody really care?
05:02:26  <greeter> so true
05:03:10  <greeter> still in real life, i could walk that distance in 18 days just by traveling at 10 kilometers per day, so it's throwing me off for scenario testing :-S
05:04:17  <greeter> maybe my scenario is a bad idea
05:09:34  <Supercheese> your scenario is probably fine; just ignore all timescales and have fun with it
05:11:33  <greeter> hmm, i'm trying to. testing is brutal though. i can't seem to get a start with it at all
05:11:46  <greeter> but maybe it's just me. i'm trying to start with trains but i'm more used to starting with ships
05:14:30  <greeter> only other thing i can think of is that i was too realistic in this. it's one of the poorest parts of canada. maybe the scenario is extra tough because making a living in real life is extra tough :-P
05:45:13  <greeter> finally figured out where to start. hmm, maybe i should post it to the forums now and ask something like "where on earth did i screw up so badly?"
05:49:30  <Supercheese> go for it
05:49:49  <greeter> really? hmm, maybe so
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08:27:01  <MeSaber> good morning openttd nerds =)
08:27:25  <greeter> greetings
08:27:29  <ST2> hey nerd ;)
08:27:35  <MeSaber> lulz hi master nerd st2 :D
08:27:43  <ST2> :P
08:27:45  <MeSaber> ^^
08:28:07  <MeSaber> waking up and doing the standard openttd routine
08:28:16  <MeSaber> build a train, crash it, go back to sleep :D
08:28:45  <ST2> that's a way of starting a day ^^
08:29:39  <MeSaber> it gets you going knowing ure still alive though pepz died on that train and you didnt :D
08:29:49  <MeSaber> making you feel special
08:29:57  <greeter> hmm
08:30:51  <ST2> dnt mind, MeSaber tests some stuff in ttd to see if will work on rl :P
08:31:18  <MeSaber> in real life i dont sit in trains
08:31:30  <MeSaber> knowing how badly someone could pilot em from my url experience :D
08:32:03  <ST2> can be a "MeSaber"'s driving it
08:32:09  <ST2> I understand you :P
08:32:32  <MeSaber> ive thought of being a loco driver but i would just play openttd meanwhile driving and that would result in troubles i guess
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08:49:46  <Wolf01> moin
08:53:03  <Wolf01> i can't understand why "simple x tutorial"s don't take in account you know little to nothing about "x"
08:56:10  <MeSaber> what tutorial would that be wolf01
09:01:00  <Alberth> simple rocket-to-the-moon tutorial
09:01:48  <Alberth> but, quite likely, the tutorial wouldn't be simple anymore if they would explain all about x?
09:03:24  <Alberth> ie they aim for a quick and simple "it works" rather than actually understanding what you're doing :)
09:05:00  <Wolf01> if the tutorial starts with "download cs-sdl and add the following namespaces on the top of your code" without telling you you need to copy the dlls to your working folder (as you won't find anything in the references)
09:11:13  <Alberth> that would be in a simple how-to-add-to-my-compiler tutorial?
09:11:19  <Alberth> +dlls
09:12:16  <Wolf01> since everything i used since now must be added in a different way, i expect they to say how to add their stuff to your project
09:13:01  <Alberth> make a patch?
09:13:45  <Wolf01> if they don't want to provide the headers or the dllimports, at least leave a link to documentation
09:14:14  <Wolf01> how can i know the method names and their parameters?
09:16:13  <Alberth> seems quite tricky indeed
09:17:05  <V453000> morning humanz
09:17:08  <Wolf01> i can't even install the sdl2 from the packet manager, i'm using a too recent version of .net framework -.-
09:17:30  <Wolf01> i should migrate to unity right now
09:19:32  <Wolf01> bah, the one who could help me with unity doesn't come until evening, and this evening i'm busy
09:20:05  <Alberth> moin V
09:20:15  <Wolf01> oh, o/ V
09:57:04  <V453000> wat new
10:01:14  <Wolf01> finding a tutorial for sdl for .net 4.5
10:01:40  <V453000> understood 4 words
10:02:05  <Wolf01> the first 4?
10:05:28  <V453000> \o/
10:36:55  <fjb> Moin
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12:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i totally hate tutorials that leave out essential steps like that
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12:57:01  <ychaouche> Hello #openttd
12:57:26  <ychaouche> Can't find gameplay PDF (or user manual). Any hints ?
12:57:45  <Wolf01> tt-forums
12:58:12  <Wolf01> or the wiki
12:59:18  <Alberth> or both
12:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause> or there's a tutorial in downloadable content
13:00:46  <Wolf01> ok, right now i have 10 dumb AI tanks roaming in the map, collisions work almost as expected, FPS seem stable, memory is stable... time to switch to a better graphics system, maybe DX11 as i can't find decent SDL tutorials
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13:03:26  <ychaouche> Eddi|zuHause: I am reading the tutorial, had no luck finding how do I mass clone whole group ?
13:03:34  <ychaouche> then get rid of old group
13:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what you mean
13:03:57  <ychaouche> what I'm doing now is sending all vehicles to depot, then clone one by one then sell old vehicles
13:04:30  <ychaouche> when vehicles get old, I want to mass replace them.
13:05:06  <ychaouche> I also want new vehicles to have exactly the same instructions as the ones they're replacing.
13:05:24  <Eddi|zuHause> you might want
13:05:51  <ychaouche> Eddi|zuHause: that's when a new bus type arrives
13:05:58  <ychaouche> but suppose I want same buses.
13:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause>
13:07:04  * ychaouche checks what version of openttd he has
13:07:21  <ychaouche> 1.1.0
13:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that is really really ancient
13:07:45  <ychaouche> :D
13:08:10  <ychaouche> so this kind of setting is to be done in a configuration file ?
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13:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be in the "advanced" settings
13:09:47  <Alberth> but not in basic category(?)
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13:13:34  <ychaouche> Found the autorenew feature in the advanced menu in the startup screen
13:13:37  <ychaouche> thanks Eddi|zuHause
13:13:47  <ychaouche> I'll try to build the latest version of openttd
13:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> note that changing it in the startup screen will not affect your savegame, you have to change it after loading the savegame as well (in the wrench menu)
13:15:37  <ychaouche> ah thanks for the heads up
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14:27:35  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, Alberth, just as a little example: what the heck is "Device"? It doesn't happen to be in the Microsoft.DirectX namespace, there are various references to "get something from the Device" or "change the Device xyz", but not the Device
14:29:20  <Wolf01> tutorials like this are shit, as you can't even start
14:29:26  <Alberth> looks like the gui
14:29:38  <Alberth> ie the canvas you draw on
14:29:57  <Wolf01> yes it is, until now i used the form
14:30:18  <Wolf01> but Device... eh
14:30:28  <Alberth> you can vote on helpfulness :p
14:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: if "Device" is a data type, there's bound to be documentation about it
14:32:27  <Wolf01> there's a link somewhere below to
14:32:34  <Wolf01> but it's not so helpful
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14:34:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that is the constructor, not the data type
14:34:50  <Eddi|zuHause>
14:35:03  <Wolf01> maybe i'm not using the right project type, so why not tell me which one to use? if not MFC maybe it could be MPF
14:38:27  <Wolf01> there isn't that class on my referenced assembly, they were just "pick one of the versions" (i chose the last one), now i added everything i found from the first one and "oh, there is it" so it's version specific
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14:40:03  <Wolf01> now i added direct3d, directsound, directdraw, directinput all by hand, because "just add the single directx.dll" doesn't seem to work
14:40:42  <Wolf01> and every folder has different dlls inside
14:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you didn't install the directx SDK properly?
14:41:21  <Wolf01> so it's a game of "get your version straight"
14:42:01  <Wolf01> yes i did, but with 12 directx folders with just different build number, which is the right one?
14:42:29  <Wolf01> it's not the last, so it must be the first
14:43:18  <Wolf01> tutorials that thinks you start to develop with a fresh and clean pc, so only their thing is installed
14:43:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't make any sense
14:48:52  <Wolf01> this is the only folder which contains these dlls, all the other ones just the Microsoft.DirectX.Direct3DX
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15:05:56  <frosch123> hola hi hoi
15:06:33  <Alberth> hoi
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15:09:57  <Wolf01> quak
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15:29:48  <Wolf01> nice, as soon as i import the directx namespace, my application stops working
15:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> have you considered starting from a clean slate (like a vm), and follow the tutorial by the letter?
15:31:03  <Wolf01> yes, i did
15:31:17  <Wolf01> the tutorial starts but shows nothing
15:31:58  <Wolf01> in my application i imported the namespaces and put just the Device device = null; in the global variables and stops working
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15:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> then you possibly shadowed another "device" variable, that was necessary
15:35:25  <Wolf01> it should tell me, as it always does when it happens
15:39:00  <Wolf01> also removing the variable and the namespaces doesn't work, the application is broken... luckily i have a backup of the sources
15:40:28  <Alberth> hg revert
15:41:36  <Wolf01> as i'm just experimenting, a .zip backup is enough, when i'll start to get more serious i'll restart from scratch with version control too
15:47:23  <Wolf01> the tutorial from the SDK crashes directly
15:47:26  <Wolf01> nice
15:50:53  <Alberth> it's called directx for a reason :p
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17:45:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27437 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2015-11-06 18:45:09 +0100 )
17:45:22  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23  <DorpsGek> spanish - 3 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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18:10:02  <planetmaker> o/
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18:45:58  <andythenorth> o/
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20:15:46  <drac_boy> hi
20:16:05  * drac_boy gives greeter more pixelated groundtiles to play with? :)
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