Log for #openttd on 29th November 2015:
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00:01:11  <sim-al2> I assume they used tank locomotives because those can run backwards without being turned, but suffer from smaller capacities
00:01:56  <Hiddenfunstuff> Yeah
00:02:15  <Hiddenfunstuff> Shunting with a heavy freight locomotive might be difficult..
00:02:52  <drac_boy> sim-a12 actually it depends...
00:02:58  <sim-al2> It's done around the world now, but a tender steam locomotive usually can not reverse very quickly as the tender derails easily
00:03:05  <drac_boy> some tank locomotives had full-length water tanks (or combining it with saddle tank)
00:03:30  <drac_boy> so they could carry quite a lot of water which only left the coal fuel as the limit factor (unless some of the coal was stored ahead of the cab too)
00:05:25  <drac_boy> this one stops a bit short of where the front boiler assembly is but it gives you an idea tho
00:07:27  <sim-al2> Some tanks had water storage between the frame rails too, I guess that one is extended range :)
00:09:33  <FLHerne> sim-al2: Very few well-tanks in the UK, only the Beattie and Adams ones after the early 20th century?
00:10:31  <sim-al2> I wish I knew, it seems the UK had a love of side-tank designs while other countries seem to have wells or even saddles instead
00:10:38  <FLHerne> Very cute little things :-)
00:11:53  <sim-al2> And then you have the question of whether a Shay type is a tender locomotive:
00:13:20  <FLHerne> The tanks are on the same frame as the boiler, so it isn't :P
00:15:30  <FLHerne> Now, Garratts are less obvious
00:15:34  <drac_boy> sim-a12 I never understood uk's weird thing with 0-4-2 and 2-4-0 using the exact same chassis that could fit a 0-6-0 drive!
00:16:01  <FLHerne> The water tank isn't on the same frame as the boiler, but the boiler doesn't have any of its own wheels
00:16:02  <drac_boy> flherne .. shays as a 2-truck one were indeed a bit like tank locomotives .. not too sure how a 3-truck shay would be called tho
00:17:53  <FLHerne> I'd still say no
00:18:40  <drac_boy> and mallets were often the tank type too ;)
00:18:51  <drac_boy> (well at least outside usa and some heavy lines)
00:19:03  <FLHerne> If anything's supporting the weight of both the boiler and the water tank, I'd still not call it a tender loco
00:20:17  <drac_boy> flherne then why *is* there a tender box?
00:20:36  <drac_boy> heck what about the Erie Triplex which still had powered drivers under the tender chassis itself? :)
00:20:49  <drac_boy> heh
00:20:57  <sim-al2> And the locomotives with booster trucks for starting
00:21:25  <drac_boy> sim-a12 ah well boosters is a different matter from always-in-use fullsize pistons
00:21:27  <FLHerne> tender: "ship that usually provides supplies to other ships [syn: {supply ship}]"
00:21:38  <FLHerne> I'd guess trains stole the terminology from boats as usual
00:22:16  <FLHerne> So "other" is important, I'd say if the tank's resting on the same wheels as the boiler it isn't a separate entity
00:22:53  <drac_boy> flherne .. heh well the box is supplying water/coal to a firebox thats not sitting in the same chassis
00:23:04  <drac_boy> so technically it still does deserve 'tender'
00:23:22  <sim-al2> Some locomotives ( ) have rigid frames but the water tank has its own wheels
00:23:37  <FLHerne> That was about the mallet/shay/garratt thing, not sure about the triplex
00:23:43  <drac_boy> btw if anyone here wanted to know this is a similar copy of the strange Triplex
00:23:58  <drac_boy> they failed mainly due to lack of sufficent steam pressure
00:24:34  <drac_boy> (also I dunno how having two LP pistons feed one HP piston really worked in theory too)
00:25:20  <sim-al2> It think it's HP feeding LP
00:25:31  <FLHerne> Aw, I'd forgotten how cute Adams tanks are
00:25:45  <sim-al2> Like a Mallet, the LP cylinders are larger to compensate for the reduced pressure
00:26:28  <drac_boy> sim-a12 the problem is that its usually a 1:1 ratio .. the triplex messed up that ratio
00:27:23  <drac_boy> either way I almost forgot (since we're onto mallets atm) heres one you don't see often .. thankfully santa fe saw a good boiler they had (even as much as the drives were not) so theirs got rebuilt into more conventional non-mallet locomotives and lasted a long time that way instead
00:27:47  <sim-al2> Ok, so on the Triplex the center cylinders are HP, and the front and rear LP, and the HP cylinders are large enough for each to supply to two LP cylinders
00:28:17  <drac_boy> I think the rebuild were (not surprisingly) just 2-10-2's ... will have to find
00:29:56  <drac_boy> btw sorry about having to end a long interesting mix of subjects but I'm going off for a bit now .. maybe talk again about something next time ok? :)
00:30:10  <Hiddenfunstuff> yes
00:30:13  <sim-al2> Ok bye
00:30:16  <drac_boy> bye :)
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00:30:20  <FLHerne> Bye
00:32:14  <sim-al2> Shays are especially interesting because they came in every size:
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00:59:17  <Wolf01> 'night
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08:10:36  <andythenorth> o/
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08:16:56  <andythenorth> hi hi Alberth
08:17:19  <Alberth> moin
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10:28:36  <Wolf01> o/
10:37:31  <Alberth> moin
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11:19:47  <norro> Hey guys! I just discovered autorenew as a feature (currenty at version 1.3.3). however, while it is working great for trains and road vehicles, it seems to fail for ships and planes. no matter how often I send them to maintenance, they keep getting older. any idea?
11:20:08  <Wolf01> upgrade to 1.5.2
11:21:16  <norro> oh. so it's a bug in 1.3.3?
11:21:35  <Wolf01> i don't know, but if it is, this is the only way to get rid of it
11:23:01  <norro> I see. The openttd wiki doesn't say anything about ships and planes, the example is always trains. so I was wondering if this feature is available for ships and planes at all.
11:23:12  <norro> but then I will try upgrading. thx
11:23:24  <Taede> should be equal for all vehicle types afaik
11:29:06  <Terkhen> Good morning
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11:34:10  <norro> good morning
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11:34:32  <norro> Wolf01: that worked, thx! had to do the autorenew config again but now everything is renewing as intended
11:34:47  <norro> (with 1.5.2)
11:36:40  <Wolf01> it's useless to stay with a really old version if it doesn't have a valid reason, new version always have bug fixed, more features, new bugs
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12:24:49  <norro> Wolf01: well, you have a point, but 1.3.3 is the version that is currently shipped with ubuntu LTS (14.04). so unless there is a good reason against it, I like to keep the system defaults to keep it simple
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12:31:38  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no good reason to have ubuntu LTS... and also no good reason for ubuntu LTS to have that version
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13:24:39  <planetmaker> norro, you can simply download openttd, unpack it in a folder in your home dir and play - without any installation. thus you can keep your system at default w/o problem and run openttd in whatever version you want
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14:06:20  <drac_boy> hi
14:11:18  <drac_boy> so anyway about my question yesterday I think I finally found my answer .. it would had been eg called either a 0-6-0ST+T or 0-6-0T+T ...not too unusual classification if not a bit rare to be used
14:31:35  <drac_boy> oh and flherne I'm not sure if its marine in origin or not but I think both 'embark' and 'board' used to start with ships and later was also used for rails too
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14:47:34  * drac_boy hands sim-a12 some kevlar-lined gloves and point you to the chopped wood to toss into that firebox there :P
14:47:39  <drac_boy> hehehe :)
14:47:50  <drac_boy> how're you anyway?
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15:18:39  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: can I complain to you that eints has the same color for links as non-links?
15:18:47  <TrueBrain> there is no visual indication I can click on certain texts :P
15:19:49  <andythenorth> sounds rubbish
15:20:20  <andythenorth> links aren’t blue for you?
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15:21:24  <TrueBrain> if I go to a string
15:21:30  <TrueBrain> the project text is a link
15:21:35  <TrueBrain> the language code is a link (nl_NL)
15:21:40  <TrueBrain> but "Edit String" is not
15:21:49  <TrueBrain> so it took me a while to notice the other two were a link
15:21:57  <TrueBrain> as there is no visual indication they are
15:23:50  <drac_boy> is this website or some local html file?
15:24:49  * andythenorth checking, but ‘access denied’ :P
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15:28:05  <andythenorth> oh yeah, bootstrap over-rides link colours in h1, probably
15:28:07  <andythenorth> unless I did that :P
15:28:15  <sim-al2> drac: I'm slightly prefering oil-firing now
15:28:27  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: ghehe :D
15:28:53  <andythenorth> ‘headings that are also links’ bug me in all the apps I build
15:28:57  <andythenorth> never found a good solution
15:30:03  <TrueBrain> 2 solutions: 1) dont do it (ghehehe)
15:30:14  <TrueBrain> 2) make a nice icon
15:30:21  <TrueBrain> I found both work equally well
15:30:44  <TrueBrain> I guess my main issue with eints and links in headers is, that it is not consistent
15:30:52  <TrueBrain> if I go to a project, the header is not a link
15:31:03  <TrueBrain> if I go to a language, the same header, looking EXACTLY the same, is a link
15:31:07  <TrueBrain> I have no visual feedback that happened
15:31:25  <andythenorth> I am thinking header is not a link
15:31:28  <TrueBrain> (not trying to be rude; really loving eints :D Just this stood out to me ;))
15:31:31  <andythenorth> and make an explicit text link
15:31:36  <andythenorth> yeah it bothered me for a long time
15:31:59  <TrueBrain> the other one that stands out to me, that the order is: unknown, correct, outdated, invalid, missing
15:32:06  <TrueBrain> I would do: unknown, outdated, invalid, missing, correct
15:32:11  <TrueBrain> as the correct are the least important ;)
15:32:25  <TrueBrain> even: unknown, invalid, outdated, missing, correct
15:32:32  <TrueBrain> as invalid is worse than outdated :D
15:35:00  <drac_boy> sim-a12 heh ok, always prefer coal (or sometimes wood on smaller things) myself but to our own
15:37:38  <drac_boy> sim-a12 oil sometimes makes me think of these ;)
15:39:02  <sim-al2> Close, some of the gas turbines burned the same heavy oil that the steamers did, but that fuel became more expensive when the plastics industry became big in the 1960's
15:59:33  <drac_boy> sim-a12 heh well it still shows the truth behind the unofficial saying "alcos that thinks they're steam locomotives" :)
15:59:48  <drac_boy> worser tho of course is the lack-of-maintenance alco units in india/etc .. these REALLY smoke badly
16:01:06  <drac_boy> this isn't full throttle yet but it does show you what I mean about maintenance tho
16:04:59  <drac_boy> btw about gas turbine .. that was one of the few primary reasons for the up turbine .. at the time the refineries had little idea what to do with "bunker c" (as it was called) oil ... so up got this fuel for very cheap
16:06:10  <drac_boy> but of course later the diesel hp got better (probably partially thanks to SP's stubborn play on buying the german units to prove it) on top of bunker c being found use for causing price to go up .. that kinda impacted the up turbine's value
16:11:57  <sim-al2> I've seen some suggestions that Russian diesel refining is not as pure as western standards, and that is supposedly why Russian locomotives are particularly strong smokers
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16:14:18  <drac_boy> sim-a12 heh well...a lot of the earlier multi-unit diesels had 2-stroke as well
16:14:32  <drac_boy> that partially explains some of the heavy russia smokes :)
16:15:07  <sim-al2> Fairbanks-Morse opposed piston two-stroke engines no less (not licensed of course)
16:16:23  <drac_boy> heh tbh FM locomotives were interesting (and some with their own unique features) that its kinda too bad not a lot of them survived :-s ... even canada did have some of the carbody opposited-piston's too
16:18:48  <drac_boy> (also worth mentioning that the FM TrainMaster was 2400hp which was quite ahead of anyone else, but orders were somewhat limited .. funny enough SP apparently had to buy some of them too)
16:18:57  <sim-al2> Although the Kolomna works has developed their own engines now, the 2-stroke 14D40 of the 60's (notorious for its smoke, and oil and fuel consumption), and the more modern engines used in the "Ludmilla" locomotives for East Germany and the TE70 freight locomotives that power many Russian/CIS trains
16:19:13  <drac_boy> as I recall it was "heavier train at faster speed" slogan which was a big thing back then
16:20:05  <sim-al2> The real interesting part is that the engine design was not that different from their submarine engines
16:20:55  <drac_boy> sim-a12 I believe even the Deltic was borrowing a marine design as to find further purposes for the engine license :)
16:21:51  <sim-al2> The Deltic engine was used in a small number of fast patrol craft for many years
16:22:52  <drac_boy> its still sometimes hard to think that they got 3000hp out of a locomotive (the Deltic itself) thats much lighter than a "conventional" 2000hp one
16:23:07  <drac_boy> but hey it worked well for them for some time :)
16:24:41  <sim-al2> Two high speed engines vs a large medium speed of lowish output (the Class 40 engine was rated at 2000hp, but the very similar engine in the Class 50 put out 2700hp)
16:26:02  <drac_boy> ah about russia that reminds me sim-a12 I don't know if you knew of it yet but what do you think of the GT-1 in russia? I mean I still am curious what kind of exhaust muffling system they use (given the very high temperatures) as I don't think its a straight pipe for health reasons
16:26:36  <sim-al2> The DF200 is an interesting engine: 3400/3600 hp diesel that weighes 96t ( )
16:28:06  <sim-al2> the GT-1 is pretty cool, but I don't see it becoming a dominant type because it doesn't seem to have the technology to overcome the efficiency problems
16:28:47  <drac_boy> sim-a12 well the efficiency isn't as that bad in russia as it could had been elsewhere.. russia really has a lot of nonstop-for-a-long-time freight train so the turbine is a bit easier to fit in
16:29:26  <drac_boy> but hmm yeah I still wonder why there doesn't seem to be a visible small non-traction genset engine for if it had to stop for a long time somewhere (or I'm just looking at pre-productions photos)
16:29:59  <sim-al2> It should be great for heavy freight, if kept well loaded it should be very efficient, but not all freight can be run that way
16:30:34  <sim-al2> Apparently Russia has a history of gas-turbine types too:
16:30:52  <sim-al2> (damn IRC client, I hope that comes out right)
16:31:56  <sim-al2> What's rather interesting is that one section of the locomotive is essentianlly a large gas cylinder
16:31:59  <Rubidium> why wouldn't it?
16:32:13  <drac_boy> sim-a12 its not irc .. the wiki links can be odd when using non-english characters
16:32:15  <drac_boy> I'm looking atm tho
16:32:34  <sim-al2> My IRC client bungles non-Latin characters quite badly
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16:33:05  <drac_boy> btw sim-a12 I believe the big tank is due to needing to operate over long distance without requiring a very long chassis (as one would need for under-chassis slung fuel tank)
16:33:20  <Rubidium> also, it has nothing to do with wiki but rather with most browsers going with escape codes for non-ASCII stuff to prevent issues with different code pages and the likes
16:33:21  <drac_boy> I think its partially due to the higher fuel useage of the turbine units
16:33:55  <sim-al2> That's the reason, I think it's to allow a stronger construction for the tank while still having a place for more traction motors and a cab
16:33:58  <drac_boy> oh and btw sim-a12 its nothing to do with rails (but I came across it a few days ago) ... I don't know much of the story but can I show you an interesting usa truck? :)
16:34:09  <sim-al2> sure
16:34:15  <sim-al2>
16:34:34  <sim-al2> The pre-production model didn't have the pretty carbody over the fuel tank
16:34:43  <drac_boy> does anything look strange to you sim-a12 :p
16:35:38  <drac_boy> sim-a12 if you not sure I can show you a better photo that tells more of the story
16:35:41  <sim-al2> Well not having an engine hood (or a visible engine block except for that that circular thing) seems a little... off... ;)
16:36:14  <drac_boy> sim-a12 heh you got it right .. it was an unusual test with kenworth+boeing re a turbine powered truck .. this shows how TINY the turbine was compared to a standard piston engine
16:36:36  <drac_boy> almost could not even need any hood .. except for the few firewall-mounted accessories
16:36:43  <sim-al2> Damn should have seen that exhaust pipe, I expected a flat engine or a electric motor
16:37:01  <drac_boy> ah yep... hot turbine gas :)
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16:37:09  <drac_boy> thats why they always had big exhaust anyhow :)
16:37:34  <sim-al2> You know that saying, "What's old is new again"?
16:37:58  <drac_boy> I imagine this kind of truck was best with a warehouse-to-warehouse non-city direct route (you know, needing very little stopping at all)
16:38:08  <sim-al2> I see that Walmart is designing hybrid turbine-electric trucks for their warehouse runs
16:38:35  <drac_boy> but I imagine it was more of a test than an actual road idea because I can't see how such anti-city operation could easily be done
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16:38:56  <drac_boy> heck even some of the big warehouses are located right inside urban areas so a lot of stop and go is still required
16:39:03  <sim-al2> I imagine in the 1950's it would be easier with emptier roads
16:39:43  <sim-al2> Assuming they don't have to go off the highways, because then it would have been much worse
16:39:48  <drac_boy> that perhaps is true yeah .. even then chicago still had a lot of stuff inside urban areas (would you believe that 6-floor skytowers could be only a few hundred meters away from cattle holding pens?
16:40:22  <sim-al2> Yeah, Chicago is rather odd in terms of land-use
16:40:58  <sim-al2> Not too many places have suburban grid-patterns with an airport in the middle of that grud
16:41:03  <sim-al2> *grid
16:41:35  <drac_boy> oh and about 1950's ... would you believe the pain some truck drivers have with trying to stuff a 50ft trailer into a very old brick loading bay (sitting sideway to the street) that was originally only designed for single-axle 20ft trailers from a LONG time ago?
16:41:51  <drac_boy> their number may be small but they still exist in pretty much any urban areas
16:41:58  <sim-al2> I suppose it's basically required for a hybrid prototype, but the Hybrid turbine trucks has some interesting styling:
16:42:59  <sim-al2> Oh I imagine, backing a trailer into an alley barely wider than the trailer and then turning it into a loading bay... I don't know that I could do that (without hitting things)
16:44:41  <drac_boy> sim-a12 not sure why photo is rotated but this gives you an idea and its only a small tractor instead!
16:46:47  <drac_boy> actually I know one exact spot in ottawa-hull that I always see various 3-axle straight body trucks using once some days .. its a pain re having to hump the front-right tire over north sidewalk then hope traffic uses some common sense and come to a stop while the poor truck backs down (street is 3 lanes wide) into a narrow but deep alley
16:49:17  <drac_boy> anyway sim-a12 I'll let you have fun with whatever else you were doing allright? I'm going off for a bit now especially re to eat
16:49:24  <drac_boy> :)
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18:06:07  <andythenorth> FIRS stockyard
18:06:07  <andythenorth>
18:06:13  <andythenorth> only one layout, quite boring
18:06:25  <andythenorth> should I split it into more, smaller buildings
18:06:26  <andythenorth> ?
18:08:49  <frosch123> not enough blood
18:10:16  <Wolf01> ^
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18:25:39  <andythenorth> more gore?
18:31:00  <Wolf01> and zombies, people like zombies
18:33:02  <andythenorth> anyone playing the rainfall rivers patch?
18:33:14  <andythenorth> it looks awesome, but I haven’t tried it
18:33:31  <Wolf01> i wanted to try it
18:33:53  <Wolf01> but i'm a bit lazy this times
18:36:09  * andythenorth should compile it
18:43:59  <andythenorth> this I like
18:46:38  <frosch123> all screenshot i saw so far were like: ship-only.diff
18:47:11  <frosch123> the slopes are too long/steep
18:48:01  <frosch123> the map only consists of water tiles and slope tiles
18:48:21  <frosch123> there is almost no non-water tile which is no slope or even steep slope
18:49:50  <andythenorth> ah, does it flood most flat land?
18:49:57  <andythenorth> be interesting to try that with industry placement
18:50:01  <frosch123> no idea
18:50:07  * andythenorth should compile it
18:50:13  <frosch123> maybe it is only how people pick their screenshots :p
18:50:29  <frosch123> but to me it looked like the rainfall converts all land into slopes
18:51:44  <andythenorth> gah, it’s some patch queue thing
18:52:30  <andythenorth> no idea how to apply that, not applying 76 patches by hand
18:53:01  <andythenorth> either put it in a public repo, or provide a single-file patch :P
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19:23:59  * [Franklin] reaches the apex of transportation technology
19:24:18  <[Franklin]> no more maglevs, no more aircraft :(
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19:49:41  <andythenorth> silly car factories
19:49:49  <andythenorth> they’re just one huge building
19:49:58  <andythenorth> _that_ won’t look good in ottd
19:50:40  <Wolf01> make multiple huge buildings with laaaarge parking lots
19:51:01  <V453000> andythenorth: make them one big belt with robots around it? :P
19:51:15  <Wolf01> isn't that factorio?
19:51:21  <V453000> random car factory
19:51:39  <V453000> completely random
19:54:34  <__ln__> not very realistic
19:55:11  <V453000> pretty sure that is not the ain either
20:04:25  <TrueBrain> whoho, eints is working for OpenTTD :D Just some very minor stuff to sort out .. finally WT3 can be replaced :D
20:05:09  <TrueBrain> WT3 is now ... 7 years old or so? :P
20:05:42  <TrueBrain> 2009-07 it went live .. so 6 years and a bit :P
20:06:25  <Rubidium> doesn't that imply that the website design is even older?
20:06:30  <TrueBrain> it does
20:06:47  <TrueBrain> but I think it went also live around that time
20:07:22  <TrueBrain> oldest file on disk is 2009-07
20:07:27  <TrueBrain> not saying a lot, but it is a good guestimate
20:07:47  <Rubidium> that's what svn implies as well
20:09:28  <TrueBrain> 2009-07-09, the new website got checked in
20:09:30  <TrueBrain> so yeah
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20:10:38  <TrueBrain> but really happy with eints; very flexible, runs very well, and can take a punch
20:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a directory called "wt 3.1" with date of 3-2012 but the files in there all seem to be from 8-2009
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20:41:40  <TrueBrain> how did you get your hands on the WT3 source?
20:41:44  <TrueBrain> that is something to discuss :D
20:41:52  <TrueBrain> who leaked you that ...
20:42:17  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: 24-06-2009 17:45 UTC seems to be roughly the moment WT3 went live
20:43:01  <TrueBrain> yeah .. and I am also pretty sure the new website was live before it got checked into subversion :P
20:43:10  <TrueBrain> but yeah ... 6+ years old ..
20:43:11  <Rubidium> @17:43:08 a WT2 commit, @17:45:07 a WT3 commit
20:43:22  <TrueBrain> it was a huge improvement over WT2
20:43:30  <TrueBrain> I hope eints is also a good improvement over WT3
20:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i'm fairly sure i got it from you :p
20:55:55  <TrueBrain> dammit; I am the worst :D
20:55:58  <Eddi|zuHause> we might have had a discussion on how to extend it to other games
20:56:57  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
20:57:42  <Eddi|zuHause> the 2012 date may have been when i moved my ~ to another disk
21:02:12  <frosch123> TrueBrain: <- don't you miss it?
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21:02:33  <TrueBrain> hehehehe
21:02:41  <TrueBrain> I am surprised the current site doesn't like 6+ years old
21:08:58  <frosch123> well, the silliest part of the homepage is still "Latest User Screenshot of $(current stable)" :)
21:09:18  <TrueBrain> :D:D:D:D
21:09:24  <TrueBrain> its always true!!
21:09:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it's never true
21:09:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and it shows the thumbnail of one of the oldest screenshots
21:09:57  <TrueBrain> its a static image, yes :)
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21:18:01  <drac_boy> hi
21:18:31  * drac_boy gives sim-a12 ten litres of kerosene :)
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21:37:57  <drac_boy> either way anyone else here a bit interested in some kind of train subject?
21:46:10  <TrueBrain> what a weird place to come to to find peopple who are interested in trains
21:46:24  <Zuu> Talking of screenshot, apparently we didn't upload any 1.5 screenshot yet.
21:46:44  * drac_boy thinks truebrain forgot what channel he was in :)
21:46:55  <TrueBrain> Zuu: so get to work already :D >:D
21:47:41  <Zuu> hehe. IIRC I did 1.3 and 1.4 at the same time. I learn't that it is the last uploaded directory that shows at the top. Not sorted by name, version number or so.
21:48:17  <TrueBrain> indeed :)
21:48:24  <TrueBrain> touch is your friend there :)
21:48:41  <Zuu> :-)
21:48:42  <TrueBrain> I believe 0.6 and 0.7 are always in the wrong order
21:52:44  <Zuu> Screenshots will be another day. Requires figuring out what in 1.5 to highlight and producing the screenshots. Now I'm off to bed.
21:52:52  <drac_boy> bye zuu :)
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