Log for #openttd on 5th December 2015:
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01:33:57  <drac_boy> hi
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08:03:58  <V453000> mornynk
08:04:04  <V453000> how many such steps are in a tile? motion_counter 	0 ... 15
08:04:12  <V453000> or, how does this translate to ingame tiles?
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08:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: 16 steps in a (straight) tile, 8 in a diagonal tile (i believe). however, the internal counter goes higher than 15, this is an arbitrary nml limitation
08:20:12  <V453000> okay :) thanks
08:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause> it might also be 12 on a diagonal
08:20:53  <V453000> xd
08:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> diagonals are weird
08:21:12  <V453000> ye
08:21:14  <V453000> 1.4 shit\
08:21:46  <V453000> I am definitely making 2 models, one for straight and one for diagonal
08:21:52  <V453000> no more stretching etc
08:25:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you can access the full range of the motion counter with the var[] notation, which is advisable if you have like a 3-frame animation, so it doesn't jump so much
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08:42:28  <V453000> does it mean I have more motion frames within a tile or that it can transition over multiple tiles?
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08:48:55  <V453000> hm, can only be done for first vehicle in consist?
08:49:08  <V453000> does dual headed train apply for tlat?
08:49:11  <V453000> that*
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10:12:38  <Wolf01> hi hi
10:13:23  <Alberth> moin
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10:27:37  <andythenorth> o/
10:27:47  <Alberth> moin
10:30:05  <Wolf01> o/
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10:39:02  * andythenorth needs to try new Busy Bee
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10:46:21  * andythenorth wants a fjord generator :P
10:48:35  <peter1138> make one
10:50:28  <Alberth> find a norway heightmap :p
10:51:08  <andythenorth> apparently
10:51:54  <andythenorth>
10:52:03  <andythenorth> won’t work for my 256x512 map
10:52:12  * andythenorth will stop complaining now
10:52:28  <Alberth> cut it in 2 parts?
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10:53:12  <Alberth> 1/2 that map is sufficient :)
11:07:35  <Alberth> the script prints the number of routes that it finds, it would be interesting how many that are, it's was less than 10 here, which is surprisingly low
11:14:27  <andythenorth> on my first 10 goals
11:14:49  <andythenorth> there are 4 goals with 32 routes
11:15:03  <andythenorth> and 6 goals with 1-6 routes
11:15:20  <andythenorth> so they’re bunched at either end of the scale
11:15:21  <Alberth> ah, 32 is the max it stores
11:15:38  <andythenorth> figures
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12:42:04  <Flygon> Damn
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12:42:19  <Flygon> DERMs on the 2CC set tracker have a lower speed limit than they regulary ran
12:42:27  <Flygon> Is it worth trying to appeal that decision?
12:48:35  <Alberth> you should try to play with a realistic modeling set :p
12:48:39  <Alberth> +not
12:49:48  <Alberth> real-life modeling and playability don't go together
12:58:47  <Flygon> Hrmm =/
12:58:55  <Flygon> Alright. But it bugs me to a significant margin
12:59:14  <Flygon> Half the reason the DERMs lasted from the 1920s to 1990s is because of how flexible they were
12:59:23  <Flygon> 80-100km/h is long lasting
12:59:28  <Flygon> 60km/h is the scrap heap x.x
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13:06:22  <Alberth> o/
13:06:34  <frosch123> hoi
13:06:59  <Wolf01> o/
13:07:00  <frosch123> should i downgrade to wheezy?
13:07:12  <frosch123> somehow i only found new bugs in jessie, but no new features :p
13:07:25  <frosch123> hmm, though booting is faster
13:08:31  <Alberth> just never turn off the machine :p
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13:17:18  <frosch123> true, that would solve some of the issues :p
13:17:41  <frosch123> i always have to start evolution twice, because it fails on the first time when the gnome keyring is still locked
13:17:57  <frosch123> if i would never exit it, i would not have to start it every day :p
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14:03:53  * andythenorth neglects ottd :o
14:03:54  <andythenorth>
14:03:56  <andythenorth> shocking
14:04:40  <Wolf01> are you trying to simulate the arocs suspension system?
14:05:14  <andythenorth> nah
14:05:38  <andythenorth> I am building a crane, it won’t feature springs
14:05:54  <andythenorth> just want equalising suspension (walking beam)
14:06:42  <andythenorth> hmm
14:06:51  <andythenorth> is it wasteful to use a motor to power just the fake engine :P
14:07:01  <andythenorth> no transmission on this truck, but it has fake engine

14:07:23  <Wolf01> bind it to another function
14:07:39  <andythenorth> rotating beacon lights? :P
14:08:20  <argoneus> hey frosch123 friend
14:08:26  <argoneus> is there a way to deconstruct inserters and stuff?
14:08:30  <argoneus> to get resources back
14:09:26  <Wolf01> no
14:09:39  <Wolf01> just explore more map and find new resources
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14:17:10  <argoneus> Wolf01: and is there a way to switch which side of a conveyor the thing is on?
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14:17:39  <Wolf01> yes
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14:18:19  <Wolf01>
14:19:43  <argoneus> o
14:19:44  <argoneus> thanks
14:20:46  <Wolf01> the only thing i really hate is the splitter design because it is too big and inverts the items, but with vanilla it is the only way to do that
14:21:11  <argoneus> Wolf01: if you destroy a nest
14:21:14  <argoneus> does another spawn somewhere else?
14:21:16  <argoneus> or is it safe
14:22:18  <Wolf01> i don't know, i think nests spawn continuously, creeps usually migrate to the nearest nest if you manage to destroy the nest without killing all of them
14:22:29  <argoneus> oh
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14:22:34  <argoneus> and do the creeps upgrade themselves?
14:22:40  <argoneus> right now its some easy rats
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14:27:24  <Wolf01> you will see, the smallest nest i have around my factory is 5 or 6 "buildings" with about a hundred of creeps of any kind around it
14:27:31  <argoneus> hm
14:28:25  <Wolf01> also, V453000, we need repair pods for vehicles, i'm tired of repairing the tank every time :P
14:28:41  <V453000> personal roboport?
14:28:52  <argoneus> wait
14:28:54  <argoneus> is V453000 making that game
14:28:55  <argoneus> or what
14:28:57  <V453000> even normal roboports should fix it in the thing
14:29:22  <V453000> just graphics argoneus :)
14:29:25  <argoneus> oh
14:29:25  <argoneus> nice
14:29:37  <argoneus> ill probably buy this game when i get the  money
14:29:57  <V453000> :)
14:29:58  <Wolf01> mmmh, roboports only fill my inventory with repair kits and fuel
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14:30:40  <Wolf01> maybe it's because i didn't learn how to use them :P
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14:31:01  <drac_boy> hi
14:31:05  <Wolf01> o/
14:31:13  <drac_boy> hows mr.sleepy? ;)
14:31:18  <drac_boy> heh
14:31:24  <Wolf01> not sleepy now
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14:31:33  <Wolf01> only at morning and late night
14:31:57  * drac_boy throws a pillow at you anyway
14:32:07  <drac_boy> so what're you doing atm?
14:32:25  <Wolf01> playing with the wii u
14:33:38  <drac_boy> heh ok
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14:36:31  <drac_boy> bit quiet morning for me..still sorting out a bit of real estate, some computer issues, and otherwise older emails
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14:39:10  <drac_boy> still pondering about trying open a new business in a nice retail space location but heh we'll just see later this month :->
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14:50:24  * drac_boy does still wish there were some nicer choices of small-sized motherboards but meh me isn't going complain for now re sticking to pcengine's
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15:06:41  * drac_boy also maybe need to look at train fever too :->
15:06:50  <Wolf01> don't
15:07:36  <drac_boy> hm?
15:08:04  <Wolf01> it's a nice game with nasty bad features
15:09:08  <Wolf01> such hurr-durr-no-road-under-bridge or you-can-not-build-a-double-track-tunnel-here-because-i-decided-so
15:15:42  <krizzbatchfile> Can you help contribute to code or with bugfixes?
15:16:13  <drac_boy> wolf01 well tbh I wouldn't care for either
15:16:53  <Wolf01> also it lacks a track planning tool, tracks are really expensive at the beginning, they mess up the terrain a lot
15:17:35  <Wolf01> krizzbatchfile, no, it's closed source, i could report bugs, but they are already well known
15:18:17  <krizzbatchfile> Terribly sorry, just logged in. Are you talking about openttd or something else?
15:18:33  <Wolf01> train fever
15:18:43  <krizzbatchfile> My bad, continue on.
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15:35:02  <argoneus> damn
15:35:04  <argoneus> factorio is really fun
15:36:56  <argoneus> good job V453000
15:37:05  <argoneus> are you the sole artist?
15:41:45  <V453000> NO, I just joined them rather recently :) we are 2
15:41:58  <drac_boy> :p
15:48:16  <Mazur> You can tell, standards have really dropped, since.
15:48:23  <Mazur> ;-P
15:50:33  <Wolf01> mmmh, i think i'll stick a small electric pole to my back and run around like a trolleybus... the personal roboport is sucking all the fusion reactor power
15:53:31  <drac_boy> hehe?
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15:56:09  <Wolf01> V453000, thank you, the construction robots work as intended :)
15:56:29  <Wolf01> also, another large nest cleared
16:14:57  <drac_boy> anyway going for now mr.sleepy ;) heh
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16:56:26  <andythenorth> he’s missed
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17:16:32  <Wolf01> "i'll never build up a massive railway system in factorio" (me)... now it is starting to look like one of my ottd games
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17:25:27  <argoneus> what's the point of railways anyway
17:25:35  <argoneus> arent mass conveyors enough?
17:25:59  <Wolf01> moving goods in large quantity and great distance
17:26:18  <frosch123> it depends on the map
17:26:39  <argoneus> what kind of goods do you move
17:26:42  <argoneus> in large quantity and huge distance
17:26:50  <frosch123> the last games i specifically made the maps, so railways are useful
17:27:07  <argoneus> the maps aren't procedurally generated?
17:27:08  <frosch123> meaning small mining areas, far apart
17:27:31  <frosch123> but many minerals per tile, so they do not deplete that fast
17:28:46  <Wolf01> i use trains when the belt is longer than 200 tiles
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17:29:13  <frosch123> also barreling up oil into trains is nice :)
17:29:21  <Wolf01> yeah, that too
17:29:37  <frosch123> i hope there willl never be a tank wagon :)
17:29:50  <V453000> there is such a mod
17:30:00  <V453000> but I personally prefer to use barrels
17:30:01  <V453000> is fun
17:30:28  <argoneus> do you guys have any special production facilities by the way?
17:30:41  <argoneus> I just have a straight line of parallel lines which each have 1 commodity on the belt
17:30:53  <argoneus> and I fork them to assemblies and then join them back with new stuff
17:30:59  <argoneus> so I have like 8 lines with various early-midgame stuff
17:31:11  <argoneus> is that any future proof?
17:32:27  <frosch123> in later stages you need so much primary cargos, that you need multiple belts to transport them from the train station
17:32:39  <frosch123> so, mixing only makes sense near the production
17:32:46  <frosch123> or for rare cargos, like modules
17:32:49  <argoneus> nono i dont mix them
17:33:07  <frosch123> anyway, there is always the escape to use a faster belt
17:33:15  <argoneus> ill take a pic
17:33:18  <frosch123> but personally i think you made something wrong if you need fast belts
17:34:16  <argoneus>
17:34:35  <argoneus> basically I get all sorts of cargo going towards the left, and I can split them off anywhere I want
17:34:43  <argoneus> will this hold up?
17:35:03  <frosch123> you only use one side of the belt
17:35:08  <frosch123> add a splitter and merge them back
17:35:13  <Wolf01> you could mix green circuits with cogs as many products need that combination
17:35:34  <argoneus> well I only use one side
17:35:45  <argoneus> so I can easily mix them with others
17:35:56  <argoneus> like in the bottom left corner you can see I merge cables with iron plates
17:36:01  <argoneus> it's super easy with this setup imho
17:36:12  <frosch123> argoneus: anyway, you have no space to add more iron smelters
17:36:22  <frosch123> 5 wont last long
17:36:36  <argoneus> yeah I messed up in the beginning
17:36:42  <argoneus> but if I built them vertically
17:36:44  <argoneus> I could have infinite
17:36:45  <Wolf01> i have 16 electric smelters on the main production area :P
17:36:52  <argoneus> I just have the main line of various cargo
17:36:56  <argoneus> and above/under the line factories
17:37:05  <argoneus> I can't think of any negatives
17:37:09  <argoneus> I mean, I guess it takes up space
17:37:40  <argoneus> also, is there an easy way to make a dual-line into a single-line?
17:37:43  <argoneus> on the belt
17:37:52  <argoneus> i couldnt figure out a way
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17:38:03  <frosch123> yes, there is
17:38:08  <argoneus> I only thought of using fast inserters
17:38:11  <argoneus> but that's weird
17:38:26  <frosch123> just add an orthongal line
17:38:38  <argoneus> oh like that
17:38:41  <argoneus> yeah...
17:38:41  <frosch123> see your ironore coal belt on the right
17:38:51  <Wolf01> mmmh, i really need to double some piece of rail
17:39:09  <argoneus> but seriously
17:39:12  <argoneus> this game really is art
17:39:16  <argoneus> like when I look at a screenshot
17:39:20  <argoneus> it looks dogshit, sorry V453000 it does
17:39:27  <argoneus> but when all the little cogs are moving and steaming it's beautiful
17:41:04  <argoneus> do you guys have any screenshots of neat production / power setups? for inspiration
17:46:41  <Alberth> google factorio screenshot :p
17:47:22  <frosch123> <- that's the main dropoff in my no-solarpower, minimum pipeline, maximum train game
17:47:52  <frosch123> the two coal line heading north go to the steam engine array, which you can see on the smallmap at the top
17:48:51  <V453000> omg frosch123 get a new version :P
17:49:03  <frosch123> no
17:49:08  <frosch123> that's from 0.12.4 or so
17:49:15  <V453000>
17:49:19  <frosch123> but now that there is a pwoerswitch i can try again
17:49:20  <V453000> :P
17:49:32  <V453000> regarding power, I had this
17:49:44  <frosch123> also on that screenshot is that stupid capcitor array
17:49:57  <frosch123> which you needed to separate electric networks before there was a power switch
17:50:17  <V453000> meh
17:51:21  <frosch123> V453000: is the smallmap better meanwhile ? :p
17:51:23  <V453000> all power questions are solved by more power :P
17:51:27  <frosch123> i tried to play with more ores
17:51:38  <V453000> smallmap?
17:51:49  <frosch123> but with no legend on the minimal it is too much searching for where a specific mineral is
17:52:00  <V453000> xd
17:52:18  <V453000> recognizing 4 colours doesnt sound too hard to me :P
17:52:24  <frosch123> like "i need tin", there are twenty different coloured areas on the smallmap
17:52:29  <frosch123> no ideas which is the right one :p
17:52:36  <V453000> ah fucking mods :)
17:52:41  <V453000> yearh there it is a problem
17:52:53  <frosch123> yes, for default it is not as important
17:52:59  <frosch123> you learn that in some hours :p
17:53:30  <frosch123> but since i don't like the micromanagement of fighting biters, the default economy is very limited wrt. what to do
17:55:17  <frosch123> argoneus: anyway, take a look at the splitters in V's or my screenshots
17:55:27  <frosch123> they balance the cargo accross multiple belts
17:55:40  <frosch123> for maximum throughput, without using the "cheat" of faster belts :p
17:57:47  <frosch123> [18:48] <V453000> omg frosch123 get a new version :P <- it's the smelters, isn't it?
17:57:56  <Wolf01> you don't need to fight biters, just run over them with a tank
17:58:14  <frosch123> is that new?
17:58:17  <Wolf01> at least in peaceful they don't fight back
17:58:33  <Wolf01> you have to fire at them to get them angry
18:00:21  <frosch123> anyway, the most weird thing about playing without biters is that you need stone only for smelters and railway
18:01:08  <Wolf01> i don't build walls with biters enabled
18:04:49  <argoneus> thats a lot of copper...
18:05:07  <argoneus> jesus christ V453000 you never disappoint
18:05:11  <frosch123> the goal were modules :p
18:05:12  <argoneus> "oh look it's an empty tile"
18:05:16  <argoneus> "it would be a shame if something happened to it"
18:05:19  <frosch123> you need about 400 copper for one module or so
18:05:28  <frosch123> (i made the computation but forgot the result)
18:06:08  <argoneus> you guys sure like to fill both the lanes
18:06:24  <argoneus> i guess ill be crying when I get to lategame
18:06:56  <frosch123> yes :p
18:07:11  <frosch123> you can see at the railstation that the cargo is not waiting
18:07:19  <frosch123> it's processed at that rate
18:07:53  <argoneus> when do I get electric furnaces?
18:07:54  <argoneus> ;_;
18:08:08  <frosch123> i never do :p
18:08:29  <frosch123> electric furnaces need the same supplies as steel furnaces do
18:08:36  <argoneus> you always need coal?
18:08:40  <argoneus> why cant they just use electriity
18:08:57  <frosch123> unless you use solar power, you need the same amount of coal in the steamengine
18:09:05  <frosch123> as in the steel furncace
18:09:31  <frosch123> electric furnace is slightly faster, but well, just build more in parallel
18:09:45  <frosch123> and distribution the coal along the furncaes is nicer than only putting it into steam engines
18:09:57  <argoneus> i still havent figured out an optimal setup for steam engines kek
18:10:18  <frosch123> my games are all about the fancy network, and some advanced technologies work against that :p
18:10:19  <argoneus> i guess underground pipes are way to go
18:10:34  <argoneus> wait
18:10:38  <argoneus> you can chain steam engines?
18:10:43  <frosch123> lol
18:10:46  <frosch123> yes :p
18:10:47  <Wolf01> :D
18:10:58  <argoneus> hm
18:11:09  <argoneus> wait
18:11:11  <argoneus> so I make water
18:11:13  <argoneus> then a lot of boilers
18:11:16  <argoneus> and then a lot of steam engines?
18:11:21  <argoneus> in a line
18:11:35  <Wolf01> yes, but not many of them or you'll run out of water
18:12:09  <frosch123> argoneus: 1 pump, 14 boilers, a few tanks, 10 steam engines or so
18:12:36  <frosch123> V453000: see, now i updated but cannot open my safe anymore
18:14:16  <V453000> would have to update mods I guess
18:14:22  <Wolf01> mmmh, oil wells ran out of oil, time to fine new ones
18:14:30  <frosch123> yup :p
18:15:53  <V453000> electric furnace is great once you get modules and beacons
18:15:57  <V453000> up to that point steel is just fine
18:16:26  <frosch123> can it use productivity modules?
18:16:36  <V453000> yez
18:16:56  <frosch123> ok, that's a reason then :)
18:17:12  <frosch123> can i feed coal to them anyway though :p
18:17:41  <frosch123> argoneus: <- as you can see, i do not have enough coal
18:19:31  <Wolf01> if you use solar panels you don't need so much coal
18:19:44  <frosch123> i don't use solar panels :p
18:19:50  <Wolf01> also they don't require water
18:19:57  <frosch123> if i do not have enough coal, it means exactly that :p
18:20:03  <Wolf01> but a field of batteries :P
18:20:05  <frosch123> get a new train to new coal field
18:21:41  <Wolf01> i build 2 solar panel arrays (a 5x5 square with the substation in the middle) for every mine, it's enough to power all the drills and the inserters
18:22:04  <Wolf01> and load the batteries really fast
18:22:47  <frosch123> yeah i considered that
18:23:20  <frosch123> maybe with the new railbuiling i will drop building powerlines to mining sites
18:23:28  <frosch123> and supply them decentrally instead
18:23:46  <frosch123> though then i would again have no usecase for the powerswitch :p
18:24:50  <argoneus> oh wow
18:25:34  <Wolf01> mmh, an S-shaped rail would be really cool
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18:39:16  <Wolf01> bah, got killed by train again...
18:39:36  <frosch123> :p
18:40:02  <frosch123> better remember their schedule :)
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19:03:44  <Wolf01> i have a piece of double track which is used by 5 trains
19:03:50  <Wolf01> there's always traffic there :P
19:06:35  <Wolf01> uh, i just noticed the game has a BGM
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22:32:57  <NGC3982> I love Cities Skylines
22:33:04  <NGC3982> I can't stop playing it.
22:33:11  <NGC3982>
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22:44:06  <argoneus> is it me
22:44:10  <argoneus> or does stuff randomly disappear in splitters
22:44:20  <argoneus> im pretty sure im losing things to them
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