Log for #openttd on 11th December 2015:
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00:09:19  * drac_boy pokes sim-a12 with an imperial measured wrench? ;)
00:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause> how would we know?
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00:30:37  <sim-al2> Ahh. Not imperial units!
00:30:59  <drac_boy> heh I never liked them either :)
00:31:10  <drac_boy> hows you anyhow?
00:31:13  <Mazur> Unless they're french.
00:31:43  <Mazur> Bonaparte styled himself emperor for a while...
00:31:52  <Mazur> :-)
00:32:16  <sim-al2> I'm good. Caculations with the old customary units get interesting... I suspect many people haven't used slug units instead of pounds...
00:33:31  <drac_boy> heh well tbh its a bit strange but some of the times when I ask someone (and this place is nowwhere close to any usa borders btw) about litres to kilometer they give me a blank face like they don't even know what thats supposed to mean
00:34:14  <drac_boy> (and on a funny note.. lower mpg in usa is worser but lower l/100km in canada is better ... talk about going opposited)
00:34:53  <drac_boy> mazur at least you hopefully don't have to deal with services/products that comes in half-n-half
00:35:02  <sim-al2> Yeah, distance vs volume usage :)
00:35:15  <drac_boy> there was at least one ford car (I forgot model) that for example had metric at one end and SAE at other end of the one brake cable :-s
00:36:09  <sim-al2> I think lots of GM products went that way too, with some parts still using imperial unit specs and the rest metric
00:37:12  <sim-al2> In theory the government is actual fully metric too, it's just popular culture that never changed over
00:37:30  <drac_boy> :)
00:37:44  <Mazur> No, we have no remnants of older measurement systems left over here.
00:38:18  <Mazur> Well, our ships still sail in knots, but that only stands to reason.
00:38:32  <drac_boy> sim-a12 at least there are still a small but decent % of cars in canada that only have km/h alone on the speedometer (these came during the Canadian Auto Pact thats now long been axed basically afaik)
00:38:55  <sim-al2> Oh, I suppose lots of US companies starting packing in liters instead of quarts, slightly smaller volume for the same price
00:39:18  <drac_boy> even the subaru legacy had that for a while in first generation .. then when the pact died you could see the usual mph+kph combo speedometers instead
00:39:49  <sim-al2> Aren't most cars up there marked in both? Many US vehicles have dual markings (although some US pickup trucks don't)
00:40:03  <Mazur> You'll get there, eventually, and then you can start landing lading stuff successfully on Mars, even.
00:40:11  <Mazur> ;-P
00:40:17  <drac_boy> well during the pact period (or what I can tell from limit of online photos) you could actually get kph-only
00:41:09  <Mazur> I bet in Texas and Alabama there's not a km/h in sight.
00:41:39  <sim-al2> Texas actually has some signs near the border for the cross-border trucks
00:41:46  <drac_boy> and btw I'm not sure re quarts/litres .. but I think it may partially also be to do with cooking (as I can't recall seeing a book that mentioned "1 1/2 quart of milk" but I'll be happy to stand corrected if necessary tho)
00:42:12  <sim-al2> In Alabama, you are lucky if the road is drivable in the first place...
00:42:38  <drac_boy> alabama? why?
00:42:47  <sim-al2> It's Alabama :)
00:43:52  <sim-al2> (redneck sterotypes galore)
00:44:00  <drac_boy> umm I'm just seeing a lot of normal pavements when I look for alabama online? :P
00:44:03  <Mazur> Last 16th century place left on Earth.
00:44:37  <sim-al2> I don't know about 16th century, but they defintely have problems leaving the 20th
00:46:23  <sim-al2> Alabama has some questionable road maintenance, even the interstates tend to be left with no fixes until they just grind the whole thing down and repave
00:46:40  <sim-al2> Mississippi is worse because they never actual fix the road
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00:47:32  <drac_boy> hmm sounds like a decent place for non-lowered cars :)
00:48:11  <sim-al2> Yeah, as much as I hate the jacked-up trucks it is somewhat functional, especially if you go on country "maintained" roads
00:48:20  <sim-al2> *county
00:48:53  <drac_boy> actually you don't even need it to be jacked up...
00:49:09  <drac_boy> its usually just the same actual clearance unless you go with fancy hummer-like axles :)
00:49:35  <drac_boy> (I dunno of anyone else who make geared tire assembly....unimog maybe but not sure)
00:49:40  <sim-al2> Keeps the body off the ground
00:49:49  <drac_boy> wouldn't matter
00:51:19  <sim-al2> Most of these people don't go off-road anyway, or at best drive through the mud until they get stuck
00:53:01  <sim-al2> Besides fancy off-road axles get really expensive when you could use that money to put on a 4ft fake exhaust stack on your V8 gasoline truck
00:54:12  <Eddi|zuHause> my boss drives unimog ralleys
00:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause> they drive to remote places in like poland or romania, and then go 100km off-road
00:55:30  <sim-al2> Unimogs are nearly non-existant here, people either build custom rigs or buy ex-military trucks
00:55:58  <Eddi|zuHause> our military has plenty of unimogs :p
00:55:59  <drac_boy> or just use a decent suv with standard sized tires? (thats what I had anyway..long story with that heh)
00:56:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the unimog my boss uses is ex-military
00:57:07  <sim-al2> Off-road is really a self-reinforcing hobby here, there's not too many places where a truck or SUV with decent ground clearence can't reach
00:58:31  <sim-al2> Even the worse public roads are at least driveable, with exceptions of course (certain mountain roads, national parks, and all bets are off with the little private access tracks)
01:02:05  <drac_boy> just as long as you don't drive like ace ventura :)
01:03:27  <Mazur> But he parks right in the spot, and without a scratch on his car.
01:03:36  <Mazur> :-|
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01:04:38  <drac_boy> mazur least *it* was a small suv built out of real steel (even as its small engine power could make it a little slow at times) ....
01:05:02  <drac_boy> if he had tried the same thing with anything else built in the 90's or later .. it might had completely blow apart early on
01:05:06  <drac_boy> :)
01:05:46  <drac_boy> and sim-a12 if you're wondering this is the scene in question .. and yep poor little animal really afraid of ace's recklessness!
01:08:41  <sim-al2> Ah, the old school Land Rover, a vehicle know for its speed and power... 0.o
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01:10:52  <drac_boy> well at least the last generation of the old 'series' had an engine option for close to 100hp but ehh yeah :)
01:11:10  <sim-al2> The real question is why they have the monkey with them... I know this is a 90's film but that doesn't really make any sense
01:11:25  <drac_boy> sim-a12 its probably due to ace ventura tbh :)
01:11:54  <drac_boy> he had this purple(ish or was it some strange blue offtone?) muscle car that had a silly little poodle for a ride in many scenes
01:13:49  <drac_boy> either way I'll let you two have some fun.. I'm going off for a bit re some night papers :-s
01:14:01  <sim-al2> night
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15:26:38  <Wolf01> random argument of the day?
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15:28:33  <Wolf01> or just a how difficult could be adding an "autoreplace anything which enters this depot to a new consist, automatically purchasing and selling the rolling stock"?
15:28:35  <Wolf01> o/
15:28:52  <Alberth> o/
15:29:15  <Alberth> given newgrf capabilities, non-trivial at least
15:34:54  <Wolf01> i'm trying to figure out how to simulate shunting (i don't really need it to be visible) so you can just configure the orders and send trains to a depot which rebuilds the entire train as autoreplace/autorenew does, and keeping the orders
15:35:59  <Wolf01> the main problem is that if you do it every time you'll waste big money, but with a sort of "cache" of the rolling stock inside the depot it might be cool
15:39:30  <Alberth> but if you rebuild from consist A to B every time in the same depot, wouldn't it stack a lot of "old" A wagons that are never used again?
15:39:44  <Alberth> (and you build B -> A at another depot
15:39:47  <Alberth> )
15:40:05  <Wolf01> eh that is the problem
15:40:55  <Wolf01> you might need to run a consist just to move the rolling stock from one depot to the other one every now and then
15:45:25  <Wolf01> but this sounds too much "R", so let the game stay as it is and we are all happy
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15:55:08  <Alberth> something refit wagons seems like a nicer solution, perhaps
15:56:18  <Wolf01> but the refit doesn't change the wagon, you might need an universal cargo wagon or just refit to the compatible ones, as it works on stations now
15:56:49  <Wolf01> i want to change from hopper to flatbed for example, and the number of wagons too
15:57:14  <Wolf01> maybe even the engine
15:57:43  <Alberth> ah, refit limitations :(
15:58:09  <Alberth> ha "engine"  :)
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15:58:53  <Wolf01> also the autoreplace is global, refit at stations is done on stations (so no consist change, just the paper attached to the wagon)
15:59:26  <Alberth> I don't think RL would consider engines to be rolling stock that you have to move, do they? :)
16:00:08  <Alberth> afaik you can also do refit in depot?
16:00:31  <Alberth> never tried it though
16:00:33  <Wolf01> i don't know, never tried
16:01:18  <Wolf01> iirc, some times i've seen unpowered engines attached to another consist just to be moved to a different station
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17:21:04  <V453000> hi humanz, what do I need to install to compile newGRFs for openttd?
17:21:22  <V453000> last time we seemed to have concluded that I dont need vc redistributable
17:21:24  <V453000> but what then :D
17:23:19  <V453000> I read NML needs python 3.5.1, I installed that
17:23:32  <V453000> I forgot how to install NML though
17:25:48  <Alberth> you said yesterday  PLY and Pillow, which sounds about right
17:26:38  <V453000> yes but then somebody said I dont need that :d
17:26:54  <V453000> I tried installing pillow but it didnt find python
17:26:55  <V453000> or something
17:27:54  <V453000> Windows users can install the windows binary which contains a binary which bundles (most) required libraries.
17:27:56  <V453000> but what binary
17:28:04  <V453000> ?
17:28:24  <V453000> is the zip considered a binary? it only has nmlc in it
17:28:36  <V453000> is that it?
17:30:34  <Alberth> windows binary is an exe file, normally
17:30:42  <V453000> well yeah
17:30:53  <V453000> only exe is nml
17:30:59  <V453000> readme says run which I cant see
17:33:04  <V453000> *only exe is nmlc
17:34:01  <Alberth>    nightly doesn't seem to have a readme
17:34:16  <Alberth> it's probably safe to ignore the readme
17:34:34  <Alberth> the python.dll is used
17:34:47  <V453000> o
17:34:55  <V453000> python33.dll?
17:35:17  <Alberth> that's the one :)
17:35:19  <V453000> how do I ... "use" it?
17:35:31  <V453000> clicking stuff aint helping, windoze user is lost
17:35:44  <Alberth> in a shell    type  "nmlc -h"
17:37:45  <V453000> just anywhere?
17:37:51  <V453000> or do I go to the NML folder?
17:37:54  <Alberth> just like all previous versions of nml
17:38:06  <Alberth> in the nml folder would be a good idea
17:38:07  <V453000> I haz no version of nml here and dont remember how old one did it :P
17:38:09  <V453000> right
17:38:34  <V453000> should this NML folder I unpacked the zip to, be the same folder as where NML will be in the end?
17:38:43  <V453000> aka atm it is in C:\NML
17:38:44  <Alberth> although you can probably type "path\to\the\nmlc.exe"  -h
17:39:06  <V453000> should it be C:\NML-install and then put the product into C:\NML?
17:39:12  <Alberth> c:\nml\nmlc -h    would work probably
17:39:45  <Alberth> I don't think the exe is an install, it's the final product already
17:40:02  <V453000> right that is what I thought
17:40:18  <Alberth> but you can rename the directory to be on the safe side
17:40:41  <V453000> ah -h is help :D
17:40:44  <V453000> ok that worked
17:40:54  <Alberth> I have no idea what's packed into the windows distribution :)
17:40:58  <Alberth> great
17:41:19  <V453000> I guess I need to somehow teach python the nmlc command or something?
17:41:22  <Alberth> nmlc  --grf=blah.grf  blah.nml
17:41:28  <V453000> or windows cmd to be taught the command?
17:41:37  <V453000> hm
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17:41:52  <V453000> that means the grf needs to be in the same folder as NML, right?
17:42:07  <V453000> cause I am pretty sure that is how my .bat compile things look
17:42:25  <Alberth> you can probably specify a path to nmlc
17:42:38  <Alberth> ie  d:    cd d:\some\where
17:42:55  <Alberth> c:\nml\nmlc -h      should work then
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17:43:18  <V453000> ooo
17:43:35  <V453000> I might be doing that already
17:43:49  <V453000> am not :_
17:43:50  <V453000> :)
17:44:21  <Alberth> if that works, you can stick the command in a .bat file
17:44:38  <V453000> looks like it works
17:44:51  <V453000> spriteset parameter error, so it is compiling, my code just has shit in it
17:44:57  <V453000> thanks :D I cant believe it was this simple
17:45:30  <Alberth> computers are simple-minded creatures, the only problem is knowing how to handle them :p
17:45:39  <Alberth> but yw :)
17:46:05  <Alberth> and great that my 20+years old windows knowledge still works :p
17:47:50  <V453000> XD
17:48:04  <V453000> well I did remember that I did set it up somehow super simply at work, but all the wiki and readme confused me to hell
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17:52:24  <frosch123> V453000: <- some people do it like that
17:53:02  <V453000> frosch yes that is actually where I copied it from :P I just added the path C:\..
17:53:07  <V453000> works now :)
17:53:55  <V453000> also it is cute how it reveals that I compiled it at work because that was my windows username there XD at home I only have the first name
17:54:17  <Alberth> quak
17:54:29  <frosch123> hoin
17:54:35  <Wolf01> k
17:55:18  <frosch123> V453000: what? your username is not V ?
17:55:27  <V453000> :)
17:55:33  <V453000> not at work
17:56:02  <frosch123> i thought you were some fancy startup company, no old establishment :p
17:57:08  <V453000> 300 humans company with proper IT stuff
17:57:31  <frosch123> i meant your new company
17:57:33  <Wolf01> the team photo says 10
17:57:43  <frosch123> and btw. there is no such thing as "proper IT stuff"
17:57:57  <V453000> new company is 10 humans yes :)
17:58:10  <V453000> I am not compiling openttd shit at factorio office though ;)
17:58:15  <V453000> yeah
17:58:18  <V453000> because fuck IT :>
17:58:20  <V453000> shots fired
17:58:33  <frosch123> you should write a FFF and only talk about ottd :p
17:58:39  <V453000> also why does this tell me Spriteset parameter 1 'name' should be an identifier?
17:59:06  <frosch123> no "-" allowed
17:59:12  <V453000> oh shitballs
17:59:14  <frosch123> "-" is minus
17:59:15  <V453000> :D
17:59:17  <V453000> XD
17:59:30  <V453000> yeah I learned to use - in files lately
17:59:43  <V453000> fucking christ need to rename the files then
17:59:54  <Wolf01> uhm, now i'm bored, i just coded the entire xml level loading
17:59:59  <frosch123> the files? why?
18:00:01  <V453000> no I just need to change the identifier
18:00:04  <V453000> my brain is offline
18:00:05  <frosch123> the stuff between " is fine
18:00:32  <frosch123> nml just doesn't know how to subtrract rail1_overlays from GEAR :)
18:00:58  <Wolf01> also shit happens, i hit the credit card limit this month
18:01:20  <Wolf01> so no "new fun stuff"
18:01:42  <V453000> unexpected token ; .............. ;_;
18:02:33  <Wolf01> then don't put ; at end of the lines
18:02:49  <V453000> yeah :)
18:02:53  <V453000> it just usually is ; missing
18:02:59  <V453000> oh fuck me right up
18:03:15  <V453000> seriously this can only happen to me
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18:04:12  <V453000>
18:04:25  <V453000> victory
18:04:43  <V453000> wat do? XD report?
18:06:38  <frosch123> what does your usage of "sort" look like?
18:06:38  <V453000> the newgrf doesnt even really have anything in it XD
18:06:43  <V453000> ah
18:06:45  <V453000> nothing atm
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18:07:02  <frosch123> you mean you left [] empty?
18:07:05  <V453000> yeah
18:07:11  <V453000> works now with it commented out
18:07:11  <frosch123> ok, that's it then :)
18:09:01  <frosch123> Alberth: making no-white-space-changes diffs for python code kind of fails :p
18:09:16  <Alberth> :D
18:09:48  <frosch123> <- so, well
18:09:49  <V453000> yay compiled for the first time
18:09:51  <V453000> blow the champagne
18:09:59  <V453000> that sounds very nsfw
18:09:59  <frosch123> i guess making it a NOP is fine, no error
18:10:16  <V453000>
18:10:17  <V453000> :>
18:11:02  <frosch123> looks like an ios game
18:11:06  <Wolf01> eheh
18:11:17  <frosch123> (without the automate)
18:12:16  <frosch123> "Makefile.config:10: *** Too many open files.  Stop." <- trying to compile nuts :p
18:13:59  <V453000> it is a joke we have with Albert at the office; we enjoy the relation between factorio spirit and us automating anything we can at work
18:14:04  <Alberth> interesting to make   last = vehid_list[0]     :)
18:14:21  <Alberth> but if an empty list is a proper result, looks ok to me
18:14:49  <frosch123> well, i could change it to len > 1 actually
18:14:52  <frosch123> sorting one vehicle :p
18:15:36  <Alberth> is always trivially correct :)
18:17:17  <frosch123> why are makefiles from coop always completely broken?
18:17:26  <frosch123> Makefile.config including Makefile.config?
18:18:04  <glx> usually copy paste and people not knowing what they are doing ;)
18:20:33  <Alberth> overly generic makefile setups :)
18:21:27  <V453000> oh yeah I need to define at least 1 vehicle to see the track set XD
18:21:28  <V453000> fak
18:45:14  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27470 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2015-12-11 19:45:09 +0100 )
18:45:15  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:16  <DorpsGek> turkish - 69 changes by wakeup
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19:36:03  <andythenorth> o/
19:37:12  <Alberth> o/
19:38:37  <andythenorth> is cats
19:38:44  <andythenorth> also hogs
19:39:08  <Wolf01> o/
19:49:10  <V453000> ARE YOU CATS_
19:49:11  <V453000> ?
19:50:22  <andythenorth> maybe
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19:53:14  <drac_boy> hi
19:53:36  <andythenorth> more Hog
19:53:49  <drac_boy> OINK? :P
19:53:52  <drac_boy> heh
19:55:55  <drac_boy> so..working on firs as usual I assume?
19:56:17  * andythenorth needs more goals
19:56:35  * andythenorth patches BB
19:57:28  <drac_boy> heh ok
19:57:43  <andythenorth> let’s try 20 goals
19:58:02  <andythenorth> will it work with my savegame? :P
19:58:19  <andythenorth> no
19:58:23  <andythenorth> the setting is baked in
19:58:24  <V453000> will it blend
19:58:35  <andythenorth> bah
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20:07:44  <frosch123> juicy cat - real filtered cat juice
20:12:56  <drac_boy> either way just curious about anyone else in here re if it was rather more specific to ussr or did any other countries have steam locomotives with full-wrap handrails as a provision to slippery weathers?
20:13:07  <V453000> trying to avoid brain farts: original sprite template was x 128 y 128 sprite size ... I only change sprite size to 256*320, putting -128 to X offsets and -192 to each Y offset should keep the sprite look the same, right?
20:13:17  <V453000> vehicles were centered at the center of the sprite in both cases
20:13:36  <drac_boy> (then again it almost seem the same styling you'll find on emd gp7 etca when it comes to much later diesels tho)
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20:22:04  <drac_boy> hi sim-a12 :)
20:22:23  <drac_boy> <is just trying to sort out a bit of steam locomotives atm
20:24:55  <V453000> too real
20:25:50  <Mazur> Are you pulling my plonker?
20:28:23  * drac_boy gives mazur some unplonker?
20:30:02  <Mazur> No?  Who's pulling my plonker, then?
20:30:53  <drac_boy> no idea, but not me for sure :)
20:34:57  <Alberth> andythenorth:   {BLACK}Processes pyrite ore into metal and chemicals.{}{}Cargo production:{}  4t + 4,000l per 8t delivered     this looks somewhat wrong compared to the other strings?
20:35:19  <andythenorth> it does doesn’t it
20:35:24  <andythenorth> I can’t think how to do it better
20:36:07  <Alberth> Cargo production:{}  8 crates per 8,000l petrol delivered{}  8 crates per 8t metal delivered            a bit more wordy, like  <---
20:36:43  <Alberth> oh, it's the other way around, sorry
20:37:47  <Alberth> still,    4t metal and 4,000l chemicals per 8t pyrite delivered
20:40:03  <andythenorth> ok
20:40:04  <andythenorth> will change
20:40:13  <andythenorth> working on that industry anyway, by coincidence
20:40:58  <Alberth> what's a  supply yard?
20:41:29  <Alberth> ah, delving fools gold :p
20:44:43  <andythenorth> supply yard is just a place to arbitrarily make engineering supplies and so :D
20:46:06  * andythenorth pushes changes
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20:51:49  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> looks like an ios game <-- then "automate" would be "spend 2$ to make this action instant."
20:59:49  <V453000> guys does my stuff make sense pls_
20:59:50  <V453000> ?
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21:00:01  <V453000> trying to avoid brain farts: original sprite template was x 128 y 128 sprite size ... I only change sprite size to 256*320, putting -128 to X offsets and -192 to each Y offset should keep the sprite look the same, right? [21:13] <V453000> vehicles were centered at the center of the sprite in both cases
21:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, if you add transparent stuff at the bottom and right of the sprite, the anchor shouldn't need changing
21:05:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (but i haven't touched a sprite in years)
21:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause> if you add transparent stuff at the top or left, the anchor should be moved
21:07:47  <Eddi|zuHause> if you add transparent stuff to both sides, anchor should be moved by 1/2
21:15:36  <Mazur> If you centered the image, the offset is x: -64,  y: -96
21:16:18  <Mazur> (half the additional size.)
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22:24:39  <Wolf01> 'night
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