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10:31:11 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 10:33:33 <V453000> yes! 10:35:21 <V453000> tycoondemon: what do you need to know? 10:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd try to start here: http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial 10:38:45 <V453000> yay flame war ignited :> 10:38:53 <V453000> only a matter of time now 10:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> every discussion is a potential flamewar 10:40:12 <V453000> yes but with SAC it is a little bit more explosive :P 10:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> some people are more vulnerable (or effective, depending on view) than others :p 10:43:36 <V453000> @seen planetmaker 10:43:36 <DorpsGek> V453000: planetmaker was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 19 hours, 8 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <planetmaker> and the train engines will eventually become unavailable, thus it will become a necessity to upgrade to maglev eventually 10:49:17 <tycoondemon> V453000 10:49:30 <V453000> ? 10:49:37 <tycoondemon> I want to have some cost settings standard as a newgrf 10:50:29 <tycoondemon> way more expensive terraforming for the most part, but i cant find a easy way to configure it via existing newgrf 10:51:10 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:51:49 <V453000> Basecosts? 10:52:12 <tycoondemon> what is wrond with discussion? discussion is progress of knowledge 10:52:16 <V453000> I actually believe basecosts is on the devzone so you could just create some more presets for it 10:52:24 <V453000> tycoondemon: not here, forums :) 10:55:24 <tycoondemon> yes well, I use basecosts, but it is so convoluted to edit 10:55:42 <V453000> what do you mean? too many parameters? 10:57:05 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/basecosts 10:57:16 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/basecosts-presets 10:57:25 <V453000> could make one like that 10:57:53 <V453000> but I can tell you that the best basecosts you can make is make all costs lowest possible, makes the game most fun 10:58:11 <V453000> makes people build what they want and not care about cost 10:59:43 <tycoondemon> well the problem I find with some low cost is that you just go for the absolute hack way of building as as far and as fast as possible, ea a straight as possible rail; just remove all land etc 11:00:12 <V453000> then that is just cause you want to build like that 11:00:17 <V453000> human factor :P 11:04:57 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:31 <tycoondemon> I keep chaising the perfect network dream 11:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> other people will never build your dream network :p 11:14:59 <tycoondemon> I know 11:24:29 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Snail] 11:35:20 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0886f5.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 11:35:34 <Alberth> so you want to build your network dream, but not make it actually possible due to costs :p 11:37:07 <Alberth> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/BaseCosts_NewGRF what is the problem configuring in a parameter list like the bottom one at that page? 11:39:29 <Alberth> you can tune every cost from insanely cheap to insanely expensive by using a few dropdowns 11:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD424F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:58 *** dP [~dP@li629-70.members.linode.com] has joined #openttd 11:58:03 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 11:58:11 <tycoondemon> I know, but I cant find where it is stored 11:58:40 <tycoondemon> the problem is, it is very hard to find a balance at expensive and toooo expensive 11:58:48 <tycoondemon> and you have to tinqer a lot 11:59:07 <tycoondemon> and with so many parameters it takes a long time 11:59:13 <V453000> but what is your solution then? 11:59:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD424F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:59:18 <V453000> tinker less by doing what? :d 11:59:45 <tycoondemon> yes, I know I have to tinqer at some poiint, but I have to restart every time when I reinstall pc or something 12:00:09 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2001:8a0:ed44:5b01:1a67:b0ff:fe91:1823] has joined #openttd 12:02:32 <V453000> well you can make a preset newgrf 12:02:56 <V453000> or even upload a scenario with some newgrf settings, and every time you reinstall you can just download the scenario and copy grf settings 12:02:59 <Alberth> still needs tinquering to tune the values 12:04:52 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:14 <tycoondemon> I know it needs tinquering, but I dont fully understand how openttd stores it 12:05:38 <tycoondemon> when I click the https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/basecosts-presets , I dont see any downloadable presets 12:09:15 <tycoondemon> i have to install both new grf? 12:09:52 <tycoondemon> so how do I edit this preset? 12:10:22 <Alberth> did you ever use a newgrf? 12:10:47 <Alberth> basecost mod is just like all other newgrfs 12:11:13 <tycoondemon> yes 12:11:19 <tycoondemon> I installed them both now 12:11:37 <tycoondemon> I found the preset in the parameter of basecost-presets 12:12:02 <tycoondemon> but can I edit those presets? 12:12:23 <Alberth> don't know, I never use a basecost mod 12:12:44 <Alberth> but if you can, it's done through the "edit parameters" button 12:16:17 <tycoondemon> under set parameter of basecost-presets, I get a dropdown wtih 4 presets, I want to edit what thos presets does, or add my own, or would this mean I have to edit in NML? 12:17:26 <Alberth> no idea, just try another basecost mod? 12:17:56 <Alberth> they pretty much all have the same functionality, main differences are in how to express the settings 12:21:26 <V453000> tycoondemon: you can just put Basecosts Mod in your game, adjust the parameters of it to adjust the settings as you like, and then save your newGRF settings as preset 12:21:55 <V453000> if you want a newgrf which automatically works the way you want it to, without any collaboration with your local settings, then you need to create a new one with NML etc 12:32:20 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:48 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:33:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD424F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD424F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:38:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD424F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:37 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:39:42 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD424F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:41:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD424F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 12:48:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:52:39 <andythenorth> dear metadata indexing daemon, I would like my CPU back thanks 12:54:19 <Alberth> you probably have the cpu, but the data you use is at the disk, which is a tad busy by the indexer deamon eating disk bandwidth :p 12:54:35 <Alberth> hi hi, and happy new year btw :) 12:54:56 <andythenorth> nah, itâs blocked one core at 100% and killing my battery :) 12:55:12 <V453000> sup northern one 12:55:17 <andythenorth> it does latent-semantic-analysis on document contents also I think 12:55:19 <andythenorth> lo V453000 12:55:29 <Alberth> likely 12:56:00 <Alberth> looking for any secrets to sell to the americans :p 12:56:47 * andythenorth looking for trains, to buy from americans 12:56:53 <andythenorth> ebay is expensive eh 12:57:12 <Alberth> too many people have discovered it 12:57:41 <andythenorth> a lot of âbuy it nowâ with fair prices donât sell 12:57:52 <andythenorth> but equivalent items in auctions sell at inflated price 12:57:55 <andythenorth> human nature :P 12:58:25 <Alberth> someone else bids on it, it must be good :p 12:59:00 <Alberth> clicker game for adults :p 13:01:12 <andythenorth> âbut I MUST winâ 13:02:08 <andythenorth> Iâm going to make a shunting puzzle 13:02:10 <andythenorth> like http://www.freerails.com/gallery/4547/4547_090755_320000000.jpg 13:02:25 <andythenorth> each wagon has a card or token in a bag 13:02:27 <V453000> fucking train shit XD 13:02:29 <andythenorth> draw out 5, make the train 13:02:41 * andythenorth kids got trains for christmas 13:02:46 <V453000> XD 13:02:50 <V453000> how coincidental 13:02:55 <V453000> mr santa definitely knows what up 13:03:18 * andythenorth needs a break from screen stuff 13:03:34 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: would you be willing to try this binary: https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/openttd-testing-macosx-10.8-x86_64.zip ? I am trying a new compile-file thingy, and a completely different system then normal is producing binaries for this ;) 13:03:42 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: ok :) 13:03:45 * andythenorth downloads 13:03:49 <andythenorth> is it a fork bomb? o_O 13:03:51 <andythenorth> are you the NSA? 13:03:54 <TrueBrain> at least, I am hoping you have 64bit and 10.8+ :P 13:04:43 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C1CED00013818C285F8AA86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:05:15 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:05:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:06:14 <Alberth> NSA already programmed your indexing deamon :p 13:07:29 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I got an empty zip? 13:08:21 <TrueBrain> lolz 13:08:32 <TrueBrain> binary etc is there 13:08:35 <TrueBrain> not empty here 13:09:57 <andythenorth> bah 13:10:02 * andythenorth biab 13:10:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:12:05 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:16:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:16:35 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: itâs r27486? 13:16:48 * andythenorth checking heâs testing correct thing 13:17:04 <TrueBrain> yup, it is :) 13:17:23 <TrueBrain> what OSX version are you running? 13:17:44 <andythenorth> http://pastebin.com/raw/CJBRNfZ8 13:17:54 <andythenorth> I have 10.10.4 13:18:10 <andythenorth> itâs only a libpng problem, eh? libpng16.16.dylib 13:18:33 <TrueBrain> okay ..... lovely weird :P 13:18:39 <TrueBrain> the binary should be staticly linked 13:20:23 <TrueBrain> okay ... I will fiddle a bit more; I might get back to you later today :) 13:20:25 <TrueBrain> tnx andy! 13:21:50 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:22:31 <Wolf01> o/ 13:23:12 <andythenorth> o/ 13:23:40 <andythenorth> V453000: I bring you wtf train links, you will enjoy so much http://m9.i.pbase.com/g1/17/804917/2/125989909.zN9ubMtY.jpg 13:24:16 <V453000> that is kind of awesome :D 13:24:22 <Alberth> nice depot-like properties :D 13:27:07 <andythenorth> itâs a figure 8, watch the engine _nearly_ hit the caboose https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXvVTodbHbY 13:31:53 <Alberth> great! 13:31:55 <Wolf01> just wow 13:34:20 <andythenorth> so actually, can we have shunting? http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/shunting-puzzles.html 13:39:08 <Alberth> you already have it; drive the train into a depot, shuffle the wagons in any way you like, done! 13:39:25 <Alberth> what more does a tycoon need? :p 13:40:11 <andythenorth> fair point 13:42:18 <Alberth> I think shunting puzzles can be fun, but it's not for openttd, imho 13:43:09 <Alberth> just specifying the sequence of actions to perform is already a nightmare, imho 13:43:10 * andythenorth was fishing somewhat :P 13:43:32 <andythenorth> anyway, we have cdist 13:43:44 <andythenorth> and GS 13:43:55 <andythenorth> functionally, shunting puzzles are just âsomething to do with your trainsâ 13:44:01 * andythenorth wonders if GS can inspect consists 13:44:13 <Alberth> probably can 13:45:02 <Alberth> you can also inspect orders, and cdist plans iirc 13:45:13 <Alberth> not sure why GS would want to do that though 13:47:08 <andythenorth> you get instructions that you have to make trains with specific sequences of cargo 13:47:13 <andythenorth> probably boring :) 13:50:08 * andythenorth bbl 13:50:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:50:32 *** Pikka [~Octomom@106-69-113-24.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:53:04 <Pikka> pow! 13:53:13 <Pikka> Happy new year and sausages 13:54:03 <Wolf01> :o 13:55:34 <V453000> hi Pikka, have a wiener 13:55:47 <Pikka> why thankyou 13:55:56 <V453000> may your pixels grow and prosper in 2016 13:57:11 <Rubidium> what? 8x zoom? 14:07:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18DFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:40 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x5ce48231.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 14:22:19 <Pikka> hooj pixels 14:22:32 <Pikka> but not right now... goodnight. :) 14:22:33 *** Pikka [~Octomom@106-69-113-24.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:29:48 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C1CED00013818C285F8AA86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: iostat] 14:38:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:41:20 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:41:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 14:48:04 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:55 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:54:06 *** _dp_ [~dP@li629-70.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:18 <planetmaker> moin moin and happy new year 15:02:33 <Alberth> happy new year as well 15:04:30 <TrueBrain> you too :) 15:14:01 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0886f5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: yo.] 15:14:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:33:48 <V453000> heyooo :) 15:34:27 <V453000> planetmaker: can I annoy you for a while? Could you please make me a repository at the devzone? I created the project under newgrfs and checked there to make it use repository but there is none in hg :) 15:35:49 <V453000> also may planets be made with ease in 2016 :) 15:36:48 <Alberth> in particular, books about them :p 15:39:48 <V453000> I dare say creating planets takes more effort than books :P 15:44:16 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:05 <planetmaker> V453000, I don't have my password with me currently. I can check that tomorrow evening 15:53:32 <V453000> sure no rush :) thanks 15:54:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD424F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:56:54 *** dP [~dP@li629-70.members.linode.com] has joined #openttd 15:56:58 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 15:58:53 <TrueBrain> right .. where is my guinea pig ... I have a new OSX binary :P 16:02:48 <planetmaker> :) 16:05:05 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:05:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:07:26 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:07:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:10:45 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: my guinea pig is back! \o/ :D 16:10:51 <andythenorth> :) 16:10:59 <TrueBrain> https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/openttd-testing2-macosx-10.8-x86_64.zip 16:11:04 <TrueBrain> can you give that a spin? :D 16:11:31 * andythenorth tests 16:12:14 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: starts fine 16:12:17 * andythenorth loading some games 16:12:18 <TrueBrain> awesome 16:12:23 <TrueBrain> that is very good news :) 16:12:31 <andythenorth> yeah loads a save fine 16:12:48 <TrueBrain> https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/openttd-testing2-macosx-10.6-i386.zip <- while at it, would you mind giving this a spin too? 16:12:51 <TrueBrain> euh, wrong url 16:12:57 <TrueBrain> https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/openttd-testing3--macosx-10.6-i386.zip 16:12:59 <TrueBrain> grr 16:13:02 <TrueBrain> https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/openttd-testing3-macosx-10.6-i386.zip 16:13:16 <andythenorth> testing3? 16:13:21 <TrueBrain> that is a i386 binary; I guess it will be a lot slower 16:13:22 <TrueBrain> yeah 16:13:44 <TrueBrain> testing2 would be our 10.8+ release, and testing3 would be 10.6-10.7 release 16:13:46 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x5ce48231.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 16:14:01 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:14:28 <andythenorth> testing3 works fine 16:14:34 <TrueBrain> awesome :D 16:14:35 <andythenorth> no discernible speed difference 16:14:50 <TrueBrain> thanks a lot andythenorth 16:14:53 <andythenorth> np 16:14:56 <TrueBrain> means I can push this new CF forwards :D 16:15:02 <andythenorth> \o/ 16:15:21 <TrueBrain> basically, it means we will only release i386 binaries for 10.6/10.7 .. in the idea that you really should upgrade to 10.8+ if you have x86_64 16:15:37 <TrueBrain> greatly reducing the binary size of the OSX releases :D 16:15:54 <andythenorth> makes sense 16:15:56 <TrueBrain> I just hope it doesn't confuse people too much .. 16:16:05 <andythenorth> maybe also 2016 is the year to redo openttd.org and bananas UI? o_O 16:16:05 <TrueBrain> not sure how well known OSX users are with their version they are running :P 16:16:11 <TrueBrain> feel free :) 16:16:22 <andythenorth> itâs one click for them to find out OS version 16:16:26 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, I don't think we should differ there with i386 or x64 - especially if it doesn't matter for the user? 16:16:28 <TrueBrain> my first project is getting thie CF via Docker done :) 16:16:49 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I fully agree; it is the 10.6-10.7 I am refering to 16:16:56 <TrueBrain> as using that binary on a 10.8+ really is silly :) 16:16:57 * andythenorth forgets, what did we build eints in, bottle or flask? 16:16:59 * andythenorth looks 16:17:03 <TrueBrain> bottle 16:17:11 <planetmaker> just call it 10.6 and 10.7 in our web UI and ignore that it's a i386 binary? 16:17:14 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Snail] 16:17:26 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: that would be the idea; but that is exactly what I am talking about ;) 16:17:36 <planetmaker> oki. I then just mis-read 16:17:38 <andythenorth> yair bottle 16:17:44 <TrueBrain> it would be bad if 10.8 people start to use the 10.6 build ;) 16:17:50 <andythenorth> the current website and bananas frontend is django? 16:17:55 <TrueBrain> yes 16:18:01 <TrueBrain> and what ever we do, I want them split up 16:18:07 <andythenorth> potato / potato 16:18:08 <TrueBrain> I no longer want them all in a single project :D 16:18:14 <planetmaker> :) 16:18:16 <andythenorth> they donât do much, no reason to use a big python framework 16:18:26 <andythenorth> website could be pretty much static compile :P 16:18:35 <andythenorth> like andythenorth html docs 16:18:45 <TrueBrain> they are a bit too dynamic ;) 16:19:11 <andythenorth> meh :) 16:19:25 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I do not really care 16:19:47 * andythenorth needs to get FIRS done for April 16:19:50 <andythenorth> and then will see 16:20:12 <TrueBrain> to give you a bit of an idea what is on my agenda atm: get this Docker CF done, so we can move forward with Mac OS X binaries etc again (current system really is on its last leg) 16:20:26 <TrueBrain> then I am going to finish removing the oldest VM we have .. which means moving email and django to its own VM 16:20:34 <TrueBrain> then I have a lot of cleaning up to do 16:20:37 <TrueBrain> (and I mean a lot :P) 16:20:42 <andythenorth> always 16:20:44 <TrueBrain> after that, then I have time for anything else 16:20:48 <andythenorth> life of a sysadmin :P 16:20:53 <TrueBrain> so ... knowing my schedule ... 2016 is booked :P 16:20:55 <andythenorth> tar, rm all the days long 16:21:03 <TrueBrain> so any other changes you want, you guys will have to come up with ;) 16:21:22 <TrueBrain> regarding frontpage: it only has to handle LDAP user management + server listing + some static pages 16:21:36 <TrueBrain> and BaNaNaS only has to be a wrapper around musa 16:22:08 <TrueBrain> from a SysOp, those are my only requirements, basically ;) 16:26:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "oldest vm" is that the giant blob one? 16:26:36 *** _dp_ [~dP@li629-70.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:27:03 <TrueBrain> 600GB, 4GB memory, linux-vserver, debian etch, Django 1.2, Python 2.5 ... yes, thatone :P 16:30:35 <TrueBrain> Docker and CFs work so well together :D:D:D 16:30:52 <TrueBrain> docker run --rm -v /home/mydir/openttd-source:/source openttd-cf:osx-10.8-x86_64 16:30:53 <TrueBrain> wait 5 minutes 16:30:55 <TrueBrain> have binary 16:33:01 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:57:59 <TrueBrain> https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/docker-cf/ <- in case any of you like fiddling around with Docker :D Docker that produces Mac OS X binaries ... \o/ :D:D:D 16:58:03 <TrueBrain> today was a good day :P 17:05:13 <Alberth> \o/ 17:08:58 <andythenorth> win 17:17:14 *** Endymion [~chatzilla@209.181.254.195] has joined #openttd 17:18:52 <Endymion> Hi. Looking at NewGRFs, if I'm looking for a trainset that's just a little more complex than NUTS, but not just a random bunch of engines, what would you all think is the best? 17:18:56 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:57 <Alberth> probably everybody has a different answer to that :p 17:19:59 <Sylf> MORE complex than NUTS? 17:20:26 <Sylf> I've never seen anyone who uses NUTS to its full extent 17:20:28 <Alberth> how is NUTS not what you're looking for? 17:20:54 <Alberth> I don't understand the "more complex" idea 17:21:27 <Endymion> Well, some way that it's not always obvious that the upgrade is better, or more "situational" trains. 17:21:41 <Alberth> personally, I find NUTS quite fitting my needs, except for the "unlucky13" engine :p 17:22:09 <Sylf> there's no single upgrade path with NUTS 17:24:36 <Endymion> I've found that for most of my needs it's either the fast or medium that I need, to deal with Local Authority ratings decently. About the most "complex" trains I've run are the MEOW engines, and because that requires running more of the PURR lines than I'm accustomed to, I admit that I don't get full use of them. 17:27:03 <Endymion> I mean, my only "major" complaint is that I can't reverse the train graphic properly when I double-head a vehicle (which is 90% of the time), because they're 2-part units. But the way I play, as I said, it gets pretty linear - any time a new engine comes out I upgrade to it. 17:27:20 <Endymion> Or at least a new one in the same category. 17:27:36 <Alberth> :o how do you do unlucky13 then? 17:27:55 <Alberth> electric engine in the steam row? 17:28:27 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:48 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:30:26 <Endymion> I actually haven't run into that issue. 17:31:40 <Alberth> not using strong engines thus :) 17:32:41 <Alberth> but for recommendations, euhm, yeah 17:32:54 <Alberth> you could try pineapple trains, or iron horse 17:33:31 <Endymion> Alrighty. 17:34:09 <Alberth> at least those are designed for game play 17:36:41 *** dP [~dP@li629-70.members.linode.com] has joined #openttd 17:36:44 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 17:38:16 <Endymion> Awesome. Because I do like NUTS, it just gets to feeling a little too linear - as you said, I don't use the strong engines because I rarely have a run short enough or hilly enough to make 'em worthwhile. 17:41:13 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@2001:8a0:ed44:5b01:1a67:b0ff:fe91:1823] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:13 <V453000> did you read the NUTS wiki for hints which engines are useful when? 17:46:23 <Endymion> @V453000: Would you believe me if I said, 'back when I started running NUTS as one of my regular NewGRFs'? 17:46:43 <V453000> ? what do you mean? :) 17:48:11 <Sylf> um, what local authority ratings? 17:48:37 <V453000> fast trains = better station ratings I guess he means 17:49:08 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:49:14 *** _dp_ [~dP@li629-70.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:50 <Sylf> turtles have high max speed to boost the station ratings:P 17:49:52 <V453000> Endymion: in general all of NUTS vehicles are mostly very balanced, but when used with the right type of network and train length and other conditions, some can be better than others in your situation 17:49:56 <V453000> ye 17:51:48 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:52:09 <Sylf> I just don't understand why one should care so much about station ratings 17:52:26 <Endymion> I'll be honest, I usually find I can ignore the Strong class on most of the maps I get - Superstrong is okay, but sticking with medium or double-headed Fast tends to have better effect. 17:52:31 <Sylf> the whole logic that it's partly dependent on the train speed is flawed 17:54:40 <Alberth> it may have been a simple hack to express some other desired property in the original game 17:54:59 <Alberth> too bad we don't know 17:56:01 <Endymion> @Sylf: I'm one of those goofballs who likes making cities grow and getting nice ratings from the cities/towns I service. 17:56:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 17:58:58 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:59:08 <Endymion> @Alberth: Chris Sawyer is still alive... Why not find his email and reach out to ask? After all, he just released a new Transport Tycoon (not Deluxe) for mobiles. 18:00:35 <Alberth> CS is well aware of us, and has never answered anything afaik 18:01:29 <Alberth> also, the original game is not his property anymore, I am not even sure he is allowed to talk about it 18:01:40 <Endymion> Probably because OTTD cuts into the profit from the new mobile game. 18:01:58 <Endymion> He's got to be allowed to talk about his logic...? 18:10:19 *** Xal [~Xal@S0106881fa12987ab.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:35 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Snail] 18:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't be surprised that details like that nobody involved will remember why they ended up this way. 18:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it was 20 years ago... 18:16:28 <Endymion> There was a rerelease not that long ago... 18:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so? 18:20:51 <V453000> Endymion: towns grow just fine with slow trains, like with fast :) no difference there 18:21:09 <Endymion> @Eddi: Given how it was written, and probably had to be rewritten for mobiles, wouldn't they have to know their logic again? 18:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 18:21:42 <Endymion> @V453000: Huh. Alright. 18:21:47 <V453000> strong class trains are awesome for short trains, the acceleration helps pack your lines a LOT. For longer trains they are just fine too, but there are probably better classes in that area. Generally fast class is the least efficient 18:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> also, there's a difference to knowing the logic, and knowing why the logic is like that 18:22:03 <Alberth> the only thing that TT for mobiles has in common with the original TTD, is the name, and the topic of transport. Everything esle is different 18:22:42 <Alberth> TT for mobiles is much closer to locomotion 18:22:42 <Endymion> And CS' involvement. 18:23:54 <Alberth> in such games, a lot of people are working, really, the boss doesn't see every little detail 18:25:10 <Alberth> game industry is not nice; very complicated programming, very tight deadlines 18:25:45 <Alberth> minimal staff 18:26:46 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:28:36 <Endymion> True. 18:30:20 <Sylf> For maximum town growth speed, all you need is 5 bus stops and 1 bus 18:30:33 <Sylf> or something similar. 5 regularly serviced stations. 18:30:40 <V453000> hey, I like the industry :P 18:31:08 <Sylf> I like lazy 18:31:33 <Alberth> V: did you perhaps run into unlucky13 at a non-electrified track? :) 18:33:05 <V453000> what? 18:33:23 <V453000> what does it do? 18:33:32 <V453000> ah I guess the graphics have a pantograph? 18:33:49 <Alberth> basically not run at non-electrified track? 18:34:03 <V453000> well then should it? :D 18:34:04 <Alberth> at least it's advertised as (electric) 18:34:26 <V453000> well if it is electric then it should also not run on non-electrified track? 18:34:32 <Alberth> well, it's a bit weird if the engine before and after are steam 18:34:36 <V453000> I dont get the issue ._. 18:35:14 <V453000> before and after in terms of chronology or within class? 18:35:24 <Alberth> within STRONG class 18:36:37 <V453000> the engine after it is also electric 18:36:41 <V453000> but yeah after that 2 are diesel 18:36:42 <Sylf> so, you see a technology digression within the same class? 18:37:06 <Sylf> I try not to think about those details 18:37:08 <V453000> ok if you consider it important I will change the two engines to electric 18:37:21 <V453000> but I dont know when will I release another version of NUTS 18:38:01 <Alberth> well, the problem is that by the time I arrive at that engine, I have all tracks non-electrified, but no successor engine 18:38:22 <V453000> is electrifying that much of a problem? :D 18:38:23 <Alberth> so I get pushed away from STRONG 18:38:39 <Alberth> /me likes steam :) 18:38:56 <V453000> well your reasons do not sound super reasonable :P 18:39:17 <Alberth> fair enough :) 18:40:20 <V453000> I personally LOVE steam trains, so I sometimes just use only MEOW steamers 18:40:22 <V453000> for example 18:40:36 <Alberth> yeah, I usually move to MEOW 18:40:45 <V453000> but just having to electrify my tracks definitely does not mean anything to me 18:40:54 <V453000> sure with some WTF basecosts it could be uncomfortable 18:41:11 <Alberth> oh, I don't use those, and I make sufficient monies :) 18:41:56 <V453000> well then why is electric track so problematic? XD 18:42:20 <Alberth> it's just not expected not to be able to continue on non-electrified track 18:43:03 <Alberth> but yeah, maybe I should electrifry things :) 18:43:34 <V453000> weird phobia XD 18:45:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27487 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2016-01-02 19:45:38 +0100 ) 18:45:51 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 18:45:52 <DorpsGek> spanish: 1 change by SilverSurferZzZ 18:45:53 <DorpsGek> serbian: 57 changes by stravagante 18:45:54 <DorpsGek> catalan: 23 changes by juanjo 19:15:56 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:28:32 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:33 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Snail] 19:39:19 *** Endymion [~chatzilla@209.181.254.195] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [SeaMonkey 2.39/20151103191810]] 19:43:19 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:59:15 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:35:27 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:09 *** DDR_ [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:44:09 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:16 * andythenorth bored of scouring ebay now 20:56:10 <Wolf01> i catched sleep 3 times in 5 minutes 20:57:38 <Wolf01> (while browsing 9gag) 21:05:08 <Wolf01> andythenorth, i've seen the last photos of the lego machinery a friend is building... at the current state is about big as a bed 21:05:17 <andythenorth> :o 21:05:20 <andythenorth> the fun goes imho 21:05:21 <__ln__> Wolf01: *catch, caught, caught 21:05:22 <andythenorth> :) 21:06:37 <Wolf01> __ln__: coffee, coffee, coffee 21:11:03 <Wolf01> andythenorth: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=D5D7348BE1780505!6132&authkey=!AHdZ6wv_GAeuPJ0&v=3&ithint=photo%2cjpg 21:11:34 <andythenorth> wow 21:11:58 <andythenorth> the 2016 flagship is *allegedly* bw excavator 21:12:04 * andythenorth wonders if it will be that big :P 21:12:24 <Wolf01> i'm sure it won't, but i'm waiting for that one :D 21:12:43 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:15:34 <Wolf01> oh, the caffeine seem to have reached the brain, i feel really better now 21:25:15 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 21:27:33 * andythenorth must to bed 21:27:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:43:33 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:48:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18DFB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:59:07 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0886f5.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 22:04:13 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Snail] 22:09:37 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:09:42 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:10:16 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C1CED00B16C3D88C9D151F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:13:45 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:17:53 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:20:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6A447.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6A447.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 22:27:04 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:07 *** dP [~dP@li629-70.members.linode.com] has joined #openttd 22:38:11 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 22:43:18 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 22:54:41 *** Snail [~jacopocol@host136-56-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Snail] 22:57:24 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:32 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@82.210.156.68] has quit [] 23:11:03 *** DDR_ [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:01 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C1CED00B16C3D88C9D151F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: iostat] 23:26:26 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-136-196.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 23:53:02 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:53:04 <drac_boy> hi 23:55:19 <drac_boy> anyone around europe or south britian area thats still having intermediate rail service due to the refugee problem? 23:58:32 *** Cybert1nus is now known as Cybertinus