Log for #openttd on 18th January 2016:
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00:12:27  <drac_boy> hi
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00:14:47  <Wolf01> 'night
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06:44:09  <myztic_> 2 trains crashed into each other
06:44:15  <myztic_> how to get rid of the remains?
06:44:48  <andythenorth> wait
06:44:51  <andythenorth> clears over time
06:45:20  <myztic_> ah k
06:45:30  <myztic_> ty :)
06:45:39  <myztic_> (signals are hard for newbies :D)
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07:58:00  <andythenorth> new cargo: whale bone?
08:42:28  <V453000> ...............
08:42:37  <V453000> actually drawing whale bones could be fun :D
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09:22:02  <andythenorth> lo V453000
09:23:38  * andythenorth wonders if 'minerals' is a dumb cargo
09:23:41  <dihedral> hej hej
09:24:08  <dihedral> andythenorth: make a redbull factory which requires "wings" :-P
09:24:13  <andythenorth> ha ha
09:24:24  <andythenorth> there are so many under-used cargo ideas :)
09:24:27  <dihedral> then you have a chickenfarm ....
09:24:48  <planetmaker> moin
09:24:53  <dihedral> hello pm
09:24:57  <andythenorth> V453000 Silly Industries grf? o_O
09:25:06  <andythenorth> I wouldn't play it, ever, but would be fun to make
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09:27:03  <dihedral> fasst food would also be interesting
09:27:34  <dihedral> factories with different requirements produce fast food which has to be taken to towns
09:31:11  * andythenorth wonders if Gold and Diamonds in same economy is stupid
09:31:58  * andythenorth learns by doing
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09:32:47  <andythenorth> eh, out of cargos anyway :P
09:32:48  <andythenorth> nvm
09:33:50  <V453000> andythenorth: minerals and gas ftw
09:34:10  <V453000> new shit
09:34:50  <Clockworker> go away V
09:34:57  <Clockworker> it's enough to tolerate you in the coop channel
09:34:58  <Clockworker> :))))
09:35:21  <V453000> I can kick you from the coop channel so you do not have to wittness me twice? :D
09:35:54  <Clockworker> but then you'd miss my hub goodness
09:36:23  <V453000> I did not say I will :P
09:36:29  <andythenorth> V453000: going to add gas in one economy :P
09:36:55  <Clockworker> I am, I know you'd miss it, the rising star of openttdcoop
09:36:56  <andythenorth> 'minerals' in this case is all the rare stuff, like coltan, cobalt, zirconium etc
09:36:58  <Clockworker> (laugh track)
09:37:09  * andythenorth bbl
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10:26:54  <andythenorth> V453000: new shit works
10:26:56  <andythenorth> nice and bright
10:45:54  <V453000> :) you mean the ball things?
10:45:57  <V453000> ah that
10:46:20  <V453000> yeah, changes to shit will be done as well but I like the progress a lot
10:46:34  <V453000> happy, bright theme, and I will try to add some happy colours to the grass and stuff
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11:02:48  <Wolf01> moin
11:13:38  <argoneus> good morning train friends
11:15:48  <V453000> fuck is up
11:16:21  <argoneus> nice
11:16:36  <argoneus> does anyone here have any experience with AI?
11:16:40  <argoneus> specifically RTS AI
11:18:18  <V453000> yeah in my experience OpenTTD's AI builds nice railways
11:20:32  <argoneus> y-yeah
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11:54:09  <Flygon> I wonder if an AI script can be made
11:54:15  <Flygon> To found towns, form the roads
11:54:23  <Flygon> And separate AIs controlling separate companies to build the railways
11:54:47  <Flygon> And effectively create a recreation of Australia's railway system from inception (early 1850s)
11:54:53  <andythenorth> pikka's Civic AI builds roads
11:54:56  <Flygon> Along with the towns founded
11:55:02  <Flygon> Can the AI script found towns?
11:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause> found towns is generally rather a GameScript task
11:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> seing as it is not limited by money and stuff
11:56:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, most of the things needed for that should be there.
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11:57:47  <V453000> XD good guy AI automatically funding industries and towns near player's actions, effectively blocking them XD
11:58:06  <Eddi|zuHause> except for people switching companies at stations, that needs infrastructure sharing, and that has... issues
12:18:57  <andythenorth> I dunno, in this West African economy, exporting Iron Ore seems boring somehow
12:19:04  <andythenorth> and switching to bauxite doesn't help
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12:25:06  <andythenorth> could do cobalt, but it tends to come from copper mines, already got copper
12:27:17  <V453000> changing the name does not really change anything
12:27:25  <V453000> you could call it monkey shit
12:27:36  <andythenorth> yeah
12:27:56  <andythenorth> it makes no difference to gameplay
12:27:58  <V453000> as I once said :P draw a scheme, make system
12:28:02  <andythenorth> nah
12:28:09  <V453000> earn infinite $$$ was the final step I believe
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13:10:56  <leolrrj> eaew
13:11:02  <leolrrj> morning
13:11:15  <V453000> hi there
13:12:09  <leolrrj> could you suggest me how to start? I did the beginning guide in game but I'm still bit confused...
13:13:10  <leolrrj> I never played transport tycoon before too
13:13:17  <argoneus> leolrrj: what are you confused about my friend?
13:13:30  <argoneus> also welcome
13:13:33  <leolrrj> I wanna understand the game modes...
13:13:46  <argoneus> modes?
13:13:49  <argoneus> you mean the biomes?
13:14:27  <leolrrj> is there a competitive mode? against other companies?
13:14:39  <argoneus> the game by default is in "competitive mode"
13:14:41  <leolrrj> or it's like a sandbox game?
13:14:46  <argoneus> you can either join multiplayer servers or add AI companies to your game
13:14:52  <argoneus> or you can choose to play solo and make the best company
13:15:08  <argoneus> there are also MP servers with custom gamescripts
13:15:18  <argoneus> which is like "get the most population in 3 hours"
13:15:24  <argoneus> that's competitive as well
13:15:30  <leolrrj> hmm cool
13:15:47  <argoneus> just explore the mp servers if you want to try these out
13:15:53  <argoneus> if you want to sandbox or play against AI that's fine too
13:15:57  <leolrrj> let me try it out
13:16:14  <leolrrj> but I'm feel to weak yet lol
13:16:19  <leolrrj> I cannot make profits
13:16:37  <leolrrj> I'm starting by creating bus and bus stations on cities
13:16:37  <argoneus> money is rarely a problem in this game
13:16:45  <argoneus> buses are bad
13:16:46  <leolrrj> and I think it's not profitable
13:16:51  <argoneus> wel, bad
13:16:54  <argoneus> buses are a long-term investment
13:16:58  <argoneus> they grow cities rapidly
13:17:06  <argoneus> if you want to make money you use trains
13:17:09  <V453000> trains are the answer leolrrj
13:17:13  <argoneus> or airports
13:17:23  <V453000> just connect things which are as far away from each other as possible, and you get a lot of profit
13:17:37  <V453000> of course as long as possible is within some bounds of feasibility for you :)
13:17:46  <leolrrj> I will connect to a server and try that strategy then
13:17:47  <V453000> but the more distant you transport, the better
13:17:53  <argoneus> well
13:17:53  <leolrrj> should I start by coals
13:17:54  <leolrrj> ?
13:17:55  <argoneus> not necessarily
13:17:59  <V453000> yes coal is great
13:18:06  <argoneus> if your train is slow then you might end up making less
13:18:11  <V453000> because coal drops its value over time very little
13:18:17  <Wolf01> everything is profitable, you must only understand how to do it well, I often start with ships and have a profitable route in 1-2 years
13:18:20  <argoneus> leolrrj: early game you want to use either oil or coal
13:18:25  <argoneus> the problem with oil is it only drops
13:18:26  <V453000> argoneus: that train would have to be super slow or carry super volatile cargo
13:18:35  <argoneus> coal is the top probably
13:18:37  <argoneus> in vanilla
13:18:47  <argoneus> I wish oil was viable
13:18:52  <argoneus> the production of oil drops so fast
13:19:32  <argoneus> V453000: i suppose you're right
13:19:37  <argoneus> generally longer is better i guess
13:19:55  <argoneus> the distance is measured in air-distance, right
13:19:59  <argoneus> not how long the train has travelled
13:20:01  <argoneus> that'd make no sense
13:20:59  <leolrrj> should I place my HQ before I start to make trains?
13:21:18  <argoneus> not needed
13:21:39  <V453000> manhattan distance I believe
13:21:42  <V453000> X+Y
13:21:58  <V453000> between station signs of source and destination
13:22:05  <argoneus> oh, right
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13:22:11  <argoneus> ofc
13:22:31  <argoneus> leolrrj: your HQ doesn't really do anything
13:22:38  <argoneus> afaik it only accepts mail/goods/passengers later on
13:22:48  <argoneus> if it gives a bonus it's very minor
13:23:14  <V453000> no bonus anywhere
13:23:17  <V453000> only accepts stuff
13:23:43  <V453000> only interesting part about HQ is that it costs like 1% of the money you have or something
13:23:51  <V453000> so if you build it later on, you pay more for it :)
13:25:07  <andythenorth> manganese?
13:25:19  <V453000> anus?
13:27:10  <argoneus> ANUS?
13:27:36  <andythenorth> I don't think that's the abbreviation
13:28:44  <argoneus> V453000: do you factorio full time these days?
13:28:48  <argoneus> or do you do multiple contracts or something
13:28:56  <V453000> factorio only
13:28:58  <argoneus> I recall you saying you were doing 3d graphics in some random non-prague city
13:29:01  <argoneus> so you quit that?
13:29:06  <V453000> yes
13:29:13  <argoneus> did you move or do you work remotely?
13:29:33  <V453000> I travel two times a week to Prague, for 2 days per trip
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13:29:44  <V453000> but I am moving to Prague in about 2 months from now
13:29:48  <argoneus> oh
13:29:53  <argoneus> so you have an apartment here or something?
13:29:56  <argoneus> also nice
13:30:09  <argoneus> prague the city of dreams))
13:30:11  <V453000> yes my father has a flat here, so I can stay over night
13:30:15  <argoneus> oh nice
13:30:23  <argoneus> seems pretty comfy
13:30:45  * andythenorth did Prague, tourism style
13:30:48  <V453000> but we have a baby coming any day now with my wife, so we are looking forward to move to Prague for a more proper setup :)
13:30:54  <argoneus> wait you have a waifu?
13:30:58  <argoneus> I thought you were solo
13:31:00  <argoneus> fuuck
13:31:07  <argoneus> living the life
13:31:07  <andythenorth> V453000 I thought you were sticking to animals :o
13:31:09  <V453000> andythenorth: tourism style = beer n bitches?
13:31:13  <argoneus> andythenorth: oh no
13:31:19  <V453000> xd
13:31:32  <argoneus> YETI gone wild
13:31:36  <andythenorth> V453000 is the most responsible person in this channel these days
13:31:37  <argoneus> thanks for that image
13:31:40  <V453000> yeah speaking of animals my pet monster snail died like 1 week before christmas
13:31:48  <V453000> =(
13:31:55  <argoneus> pet monster snail?
13:32:01  <V453000> roasted itself on the heating mat ...
13:32:08  <argoneus> did you eat it
13:32:11  <V453000> I had a giant african snail in terrarium
13:32:15  <V453000> NO :D
13:32:30  <argoneus> I've heard of people getting all sorts of pets
13:32:35  <argoneus> even rats or ferrets or snakes
13:32:37  <argoneus> but
13:32:41  <argoneus> never heard of anyone getting a snail
13:32:54  <V453000> actually if you think about it a snail is extremely good as a pet
13:33:02  <argoneus> you can't train it to fetch
13:33:20  <argoneus> also don't they spread that slimy goo stuff?
13:33:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't train a cat to fetch either.
13:33:24  <V453000> it is quiet, does not stink, you just feed it once a day and give it water, it is cheap
13:33:37  <V453000> you can pat it, put it on your hand, shower it, ...
13:33:53  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause cats also aren't pets
13:33:55  <argoneus> you are their pet
13:34:31  <V453000> cats are great, if one day I have a house I will buy a cat ... only issue is that wife is a parrot/other birds person, and cat does not seem very compatible
13:34:33  <Eddi|zuHause> in sovcat russia?
13:34:47  <V453000> sovcat russia XD
13:34:54  <argoneus> V453000: do a compromise and get a bat
13:34:56  <argoneus> it's like a flying cat
13:35:14  <debdog> rather a flying mouse
13:35:17  <Eddi|zuHause> bats are more like flying mice
13:35:24  <argoneus> don't ruin it for me:(
13:35:32  <argoneus> I can't think of anything else that looks like a cat but flies
13:35:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what they are called in a lot of languages
13:35:40  <V453000> no thanks, bats do not sound too nice
13:35:43  <andythenorth> hmm
13:35:50  <andythenorth> also
13:36:08  <andythenorth> Need Moar Cargos
13:36:21  <argoneus> V453000: what's wrong with parrots
13:36:37  <V453000> nothing, cats kind of try to eat them though
13:36:45  <argoneus> no i mean
13:36:46  <argoneus> don't get a cat
13:36:48  <argoneus> get a doge
13:36:55  <V453000> I hate dogs beyond anything
13:36:58  <argoneus> doges are friends with whoever you make them be friends
13:37:04  <argoneus> OH i know
13:37:06  <argoneus> get a bunny
13:37:13  <argoneus> or was it rabbit
13:37:16  <argoneus> whichever is the domestic one
13:37:17  <V453000> no doges are fucking retards who stink, require permanent attention and enslave you completely
13:37:31  <V453000> and you have to go OUTSIDE with them
13:37:34  <V453000> WTF is that
13:37:37  <argoneus> oh shit dude
13:37:55  <argoneus> dogs are nice if you have a garden I guess
13:38:00  <argoneus> in a flat it probably sucks
13:38:23  <V453000> no dogs are not nice period
13:38:41  <Wolf01> <argoneus> I can't think of anything else that looks like a cat but flies <- owl?
13:38:48  <argoneus> OH Wolf01 you a genius
13:38:51  <argoneus> V453000: get an owl
13:38:53  <argoneus> they look cool as fuck
13:38:57  <V453000> owls are fucking amazing, yes we might get one some day
13:39:06  <V453000> but probably a big parrot first
13:39:16  <V453000> kids sound like a good pet too
13:39:23  <Wolf01> here you need a special licence to have birds of prey of any kind :(
13:39:52  <argoneus> V453000: when is your babby due?
13:40:01  <argoneus> I mean your wife's
13:40:08  <V453000> argoneus: last friday :D
13:40:16  <argoneus> you said it's coming any day
13:40:21  <argoneus> oh, delay?
13:40:42  <argoneus> is it a boy or a girl
13:40:49  <V453000> F
13:41:00  <argoneus> aw
13:41:06  <argoneus> no exciting openttd adventures then
13:41:12  <V453000> how would you know :)
13:41:22  <argoneus> do you see any girls around here? :D
13:41:33  <V453000> andythenorth: what gender are your puny human pets?
13:41:43  <andythenorth> male
13:41:47  <V453000> im done
13:42:14  <argoneus> in which V453000 realizes they don't care about his junctions
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14:12:19  <leolrrj> train is the answer!!!
14:12:28  <leolrrj> I'm very well using trains
14:12:29  <leolrrj> lol
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15:20:34  <argoneus> leolrrj: it's called transport tycoon deluxe
15:20:40  <argoneus> but it's more train train deluxe
15:21:01  <leolrrj> argoneus: why my server does not accepts airports?
15:21:18  <V453000> train train deluxe XD
15:21:22  * andythenorth makes Road Vehicle Deluxe
15:21:36  <argoneus> leolrrj: some servers disable airports
15:21:39  <argoneus> because they think it's cheating
15:21:55  * V453000 makes Bullshit Landscape Deluxe
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15:23:43  <andythenorth> V453000: keep it bright
15:23:55  <andythenorth> iz nice
15:24:01  <andythenorth> also, bank all your sleep ever
15:24:07  <andythenorth> owing to impending child
15:24:13  <V453000> ye
15:24:21  <V453000> sleep is fucked already
15:24:25  <V453000> bank 0
15:24:31  <argoneus> take a loan
15:24:54  <argoneus> at least your bank isn't negative
15:25:04  <V453000> today it probably is
15:25:05  <andythenorth> also it is possible to code / draw with a baby in one of these
15:25:20  <argoneus> me at midnight: I should go to bed soon
15:25:20  <andythenorth> but not to take things out of the oven
15:25:28  <V453000> but bought coffee and some caffeine+taurin+stevia chewing gum
15:25:33  <argoneus> me at 0:05: what's this article/video/game
15:25:36  <argoneus> me at 5: fuck
15:25:40  <andythenorth> also BT headphones
15:26:13  <V453000> we got a old-school piece of cloth for carrying babiez
15:26:29  <V453000> am thinking the same thing, will I be able to work with it on :D
15:26:30  <argoneus> V453000: you mean the thing where you suffocate them on your tits?
15:26:33  <V453000> one way to find out
15:26:40  <V453000> yes argoneus
15:26:55  <argoneus> it can be dangerous if you are careless
15:26:59  <argoneus> which you aren't so it's fine
15:27:17  <V453000> except there are many various ways how to tie it, and the babies seem to be rather alive mostly
15:27:20  <argoneus> I know this because I've never had a baby only read internet discussions
15:27:26  <V453000> .
15:27:40  <V453000> me too, lets argue
15:27:58  * andythenorth will stay out
15:28:17  <argoneus> V453000 how old were you btw?
15:28:24  <argoneus> I thought you were like 22
15:28:33  <V453000> 13
15:28:46  <argoneus> that's an early age to have babies
15:28:59  <V453000> fuck it we thought
15:29:05  <argoneus> fuck it indeed
15:29:09  <V453000> babies are swag #yolo
15:29:14  <V453000> nah I am 25
15:29:32  <argoneus> fuuck
15:29:42  <argoneus> I tried to remember if I was 20 or 21
15:29:50  <argoneus> I always thought people were retarded when they don't know their age
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15:30:03  <argoneus> oh well
15:30:05  <V453000> well, there you go
15:30:16  <Alberth> hi hi
15:30:21  <argoneus> hi Alberth
15:30:21  <V453000> HELO
15:30:32  <argoneus> Alberth do you think software engineering is pointless and why yes?
15:31:05  <Alberth> hmm, you're asking me whether my job is pointless?
15:31:14  <V453000> XD
15:31:45  <V453000> the fuck is it anyway
15:31:47  <V453000> ?
15:31:52  <argoneus> Alberth: I mean the theoretical software engineering
15:31:55  <Alberth> you're not expecting an unbiased answer I hope :p
15:31:57  <argoneus> with all the diagrams and processes
15:32:14  <argoneus> I have to learn it for an exam and I can't say I've ever seen anyone mention any of those buzzwords or use them
15:32:25  <andythenorth> you have to learn it
15:32:26  <argoneus> and when I worked the most software engineery things we did were scrums and code reviews
15:32:32  <andythenorth> so you can defend yourself against consultants
15:32:32  <argoneus> which is common sense
15:32:42  <andythenorth> common sense is not commonly distributed
15:32:57  <V453000> haha
15:32:58  <V453000> good one
15:33:01  <argoneus> andythenorth: so software engineering has nothing to do with programming and more how to get customers?
15:33:15  <andythenorth> you also have to learn software engineering to defend yourself against people who have done the course and use it as a weapon
15:33:26  <andythenorth> "of course, the proper way to do xyz is 
15:33:29  <andythenorth> fuck off
15:34:00  <argoneus> I have to learn a bunch of things like
15:34:02  <Alberth> argoneus: I think you sbhould at least know what people mean when they mention buzzwords like scrum
15:34:47  <argoneus> Alberth: what do you do as a job?
15:34:49  <dihedral> argoneus: if you have to learn it, you should know why :-P
15:34:51  <argoneus> I didn't mean to insult you or anything
15:35:07  <V453000> anus hereby requires:...
15:35:09  <argoneus> I just find most of the buzzwordy stuff useless as a programmer
15:35:12  <andythenorth> Alberth: is a consultant
15:35:25  <dihedral> heh
15:35:25  <Alberth> argoneus:  that diagram is so general, you can fit it on scrum and loads of other methodologies
15:35:28  <V453000> I like ass needs
15:35:36  * andythenorth had better come back later
15:35:42  <andythenorth> this page won't get validated on its own
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15:35:51  <argoneus> Alberth: so you meet with customers, figure out what they want, figure out what you can do and how to do it, and put it in a form you can both understand and that isn't ambiguous?
15:35:53  <dihedral> that diagramm shows general porject management :-P
15:35:54  <argoneus> and that's all?
15:36:17  <argoneus> there's a bunch more things like "V model"
15:36:24  <argoneus> which literally just says "code stuff and test it" except it's a diagram
15:36:28  <V453000> I aint no fuken model
15:36:47  <dihedral> you probably aint pretty enough V
15:36:52  <Alberth> argoneus:  in the end it's all "code this problem
15:36:54  <V453000> =(
15:37:13  <dihedral> you could start a forums contest
15:37:18  <dihedral> ottd top model
15:37:21  <dihedral> :-D
15:37:22  <argoneus> Alberth: I just don't like the idea of having a general approach to solving problems
15:37:28  <argoneus> every problem is unique, you can't just say "ok now step 5"
15:37:36  <Alberth> argoneus: right, and scrum isn't general?
15:37:49  <dihedral> argoneus: why can you not
15:37:54  <argoneus> scrum is nothing special, it's just "let's meet every day and figure out what we're gonna do"
15:37:55  <Alberth> argoneus: these models are high level view, of course they are general
15:38:07  <argoneus> well
15:38:08  <dihedral> scrum is more than that
15:38:18  <argoneus> all the software engineery stuff I have read about seems to imply you're doing object oriented programming
15:38:30  <argoneus> it defines the problem and solution in OO
15:38:39  <Alberth> and the high level and real practice don't touch much, but it's useful to know the big global picture
15:39:07  <argoneus> Alberth: what kind of software does your company make?
15:39:14  <Alberth> argoneus: you should to more realtime control in C :)
15:39:16  <argoneus> also I assume being a consultant is stressing
15:39:24  <Alberth> ha :)
15:39:26  <argoneus> realtime control?
15:39:35  <Alberth> embedded systems
15:39:57  <argoneus> see, embedded systems is one place where OO just breaks down
15:40:03  <argoneus> it doesn't work like that
15:40:04  <Alberth> my "customers" are researchers of the university where I also work
15:40:13  <argoneus> can you still tailor software engineering buzzwords to it?
15:40:17  <argoneus> or functional programming
15:40:51  <dihedral> Alberth: what university?
15:41:09  <Alberth> of course you can, there sure are design methodologies that work for real time control, eg all the methodologies that existed before OO got invented
15:41:28  <Alberth> dihedral: Eindhoven University of Technology
15:41:59  <Alberth> where I build complilers and simulators for research purposes
15:42:18  <argoneus> isn't that computer science?
15:43:10  <Alberth> it's pretty close to it
15:44:01  <Alberth> but the difference is that my code works also for real industrial cases, with proper documentation and so on
15:44:19  <Alberth> while research is typically building much more experimental code
15:45:49  <Alberth> ie just a proof of concept
15:46:20  <argoneus> sounds fun
15:46:53  <Alberth> why do you think I have this job :p
15:47:08  <argoneus> to rake in money and buy whores
15:47:18  <argoneus> ?
15:48:22  <Alberth> almost
15:48:59  <Alberth> haha   nice patch, just adding a few string in a translation and you're done :p
15:50:12  <argoneus> lol
15:50:44  <Alberth> oh, brix needed a post
15:52:10  <V453000> always does
15:58:35  <dihedral> Alberth: specifically love the screenshot in the second post
15:58:58  <Alberth> :D
16:12:49  <V453000> nice, constructive criticism <3
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16:20:56  <argoneus>
16:20:57  <argoneus> he did it
16:21:55  <Alberth> it misses a few entries :p
16:25:53  <V453000> holy shit 3 comments
16:25:56  <V453000> I might die of happiness
16:28:46  <Alberth> /me retracts the submission to avoid death of V
16:29:04  <V453000> =(
16:29:31  <Alberth> just read it later? :)
16:29:54  <V453000> ? :D
16:30:06  <V453000> I will reply later, factorio stuff now :P
16:30:34  <V453000> and perhaps someone else will say stuff to, I feel like by answering everything immediately people do not need to talk as much anymore XD
16:30:49  <V453000> omg I wrote too as to
16:30:57  * V453000 goes hang himself pronto
16:33:53  <Alberth> :(
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16:36:29  <LordAro> rip V
16:36:33  <LordAro> o7 al
16:36:37  <LordAro> all
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16:49:12  <Alberth> o/
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17:05:21  <planetmaker> \o
17:05:39  <Alberth> moin
17:05:43  <supermop> hello
17:05:44  <argoneus> moan
17:07:10  <supermop> isn't it evening where alberth is?
17:07:46  <V453000> XD
17:07:48  <Alberth> moin != morning
17:07:59  <V453000> oh
17:08:15  <V453000> I understood it as "Alberth moans all the time" :P OR "Alberth pleases ladies where-ever he goes"
17:08:56  <Alberth> :D
17:09:29  <Alberth> it's also not "moan" :p
17:10:13  <argoneus> I moan when my terminus doesn't have deadblocks
17:10:16  <argoneus> -b
17:11:04  <Alberth> that's easy, just remove an exit track :)
17:11:24  <argoneus> lol
17:11:44  <argoneus> what does moin even mean?
17:11:48  <argoneus> I thought it was german for "sup" or something
17:12:10  <Alberth>
17:12:11  <V453000> it means blitzkrieg in uranus
17:12:19  <argoneus> yeah german
17:12:22  <argoneus> but you are dutch
17:12:25  * argoneus is confused
17:12:39  <Alberth> so, I type English words too
17:12:42  <Alberth> ?
17:13:59  <argoneus> my head hurts
17:14:12  <argoneus> what I mean is
17:14:15  <argoneus> isn't it just a local thing?
17:16:09  <Alberth> I don't understand what your point is
17:16:18  <argoneus> well
17:16:21  <argoneus> how did you get to know/use moin
17:16:23  <Alberth> I am not allowed to use "moin" ?
17:16:39  <argoneus> you are allowed to use "siemka" for all I care :P
17:16:47  <argoneus> I'm just wondering what led you to using it
17:16:56  <argoneus> I don't know any other person/channel to use moin
17:17:02  <Alberth> /me blames the #openttd channel
17:17:28  <V453000> it is the same as if I liked saying apeshit or putting iterations of fuck and shit where-ever I can because why the fucking shitnot
17:17:45  <V453000> which I obviously don't
17:20:48  <argoneus> whoa
17:20:55  <argoneus> you sound like a deliquent
17:21:02  <argoneus> delinquent
17:21:09  <argoneus> why is there a n
17:21:33  <V453000> the actual fuck
17:21:33  <V453000> delinquent dɪˈlɪŋkw(ə)nt/ adjective adjective: delinquent      1.     (typically of a young person) tending to commit crime, particularly minor crime.
17:21:35  <V453000> XD
17:27:12  <leolrrj> how can I increase inhabitants?
17:27:19  <leolrrj> I have 0 inhabitants
17:27:19  <leolrrj> :P
17:28:12  <V453000> fund buildings at the town
17:28:19  <V453000> and then let it grow
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17:28:39  <argoneus> leolrrj: make a bus line around the city
17:28:41  <argoneus> with 4 stations
17:28:42  <argoneus> in a circle
17:28:45  <argoneus> and let 4 buses out
17:28:48  <argoneus> at equal spacing
17:28:51  <argoneus> profit
17:29:00  <argoneus> or was it 5 stations
17:29:01  <argoneus> I think it was 4
17:30:08  <argoneus> basically every active station in the city increases growth
17:30:16  <argoneus> up to like 4 or 5, I think it was 4
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17:50:57  <peter1138> hello
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17:54:22  <leolrrj> how to bring grains to farm?
17:55:56  <argoneus> farm produces grain
17:55:56  <argoneus> you bring grain to factory
17:56:00  <V453000> note: produces grain means it shits it, not eats it
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18:06:15  <tokai> There are different types of farms, no? Some farms need grain to feed their pigs and sheep. :)
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18:45:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27500 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2016-01-18 19:45:36 +0100 )
18:45:45  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> frisian: 16 changes by gjannema
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18:52:21  <tt_johannes> hello
18:52:43  <tt_johannes> is there a struct in the source which contains everything that's written into a savegame?
18:54:30  <frosch123> it's all in the saveload folder
18:54:50  <frosch123> but it's not a single struct, because it handles different versions of savegames
18:55:40  <tt_johannes> :-/
18:56:53  <tt_johannes> frosch123: for example, how can I read all train station names from a savegame? can you please give me a hint?
18:57:16  <frosch123> either patch openttd, or write a gamescript
18:57:36  <frosch123> don't even try to write a independent savegame loader
18:57:43  <tt_johannes> of course
18:58:14  <tt_johannes> so if I just wanted to write a simple script using a part of openttd as library, and that script should just print all station names, nothing more...
18:58:51  <tt_johannes> what C++ function would I need to call?
18:59:10  <frosch123> GetString
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18:59:34  <frosch123> check the station list gui :p
18:59:52  <tt_johannes> hang on...
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19:04:09  <argoneus> is the savegame format really that complex?
19:04:43  <frosch123> it is not self-descriptive
19:04:52  <Alberth> if you want to load all game versions, yes
19:04:56  <frosch123> so you need to adjust the reader for every epsilon change
19:05:40  <tt_johannes> ahh, I found SaveOrLoad...
19:05:43  <tt_johannes> that sounds good :)
19:06:07  <Alberth> tip of the ice berg :p
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19:06:15  <frosch123> tt_johannes: follow what the command line options "-g <savegame>" and "-v null" do
19:06:22  <frosch123> the first one loads a saegame after start
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19:06:40  <frosch123> the other one invokes a frontend driver, which in your case may print the stuff and then exitr
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19:08:44  <tt_johannes> frosch123: what do you mean by "in your case"? Do you mean I could write a script that is being executed due to -v null?
19:11:29  <frosch123> tt_johannes: add a file "src/video/johannes_v.cpp" using null_v.cpp as template, register it as "video driver" and then add your code to MainLoop() instead of the stuff from null_v.cpp
19:13:12  <tt_johannes> frosch123: would you consider this as a clean, good design, or is this a hackish way to abuse the video driver thing?
19:13:46  <frosch123> i would consider it the easiest way to insert custom code instead of the normal game loop
19:14:40  <leolrrj> for passenger trains what type of load cargo should I choose? full load any cargo?
19:15:08  <Alberth> usually doesn't matter, you get more passengers than you can manage
19:15:15  <frosch123> "load available" together with a timetables wait of 5 days
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19:19:03  <leolrrj> frosch123: what means timetables wait of 5 days?
19:19:06  <leolrrj> how can I set it?
19:19:46  <frosch123> <- see there
19:19:53  <frosch123> only set a time for "loading", not for "travel"
19:23:35  <tt_johannes> frosch123: the savegames are loaded simply as chunks, in SlLoadChunks() ?
19:25:40  <frosch123> 	{ 'STNN', Save_STNN,     Load_STNN,     Ptrs_STNN,     NULL, CH_ARRAY }, <- that line at the bottom of station_sl.cpp means that the "STNN" chunk is read by Load_STNN
19:27:58  <tt_johannes> frosch123: ok, clear
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19:32:59  <argoneus> is there a reason savegames aren't simple structs?
19:35:56  <__ln__> because the representation of a struct in a file is platform-dependent.
19:39:01  <frosch123> the art of giving an absurd answer to an absurd question :)
19:39:03  <Alberth> you would need a different struct for each savegame version, which are 194 currently
19:40:14  <Alberth> probably there are few more than that
19:40:28  <V453000> XD +1 frosch123
19:46:18  <tt_johannes> so all the information about stations is stored in globals?
19:46:31  <tt_johannes> in this case, the StationList variable?
19:46:53  <frosch123> it's stored in the Station pool
19:47:02  <frosch123> StationList sounds like a temporary thing
19:47:04  <argoneus> why is it an absurd question? o.o
19:47:08  <tt_johannes> the best thing I can see is that station_sl stores all the stuff in _station_desc
19:47:10  <argoneus> how much data is there in a savegame
19:47:18  <argoneus> the tilemap, companies, their stats..?
19:47:52  <frosch123> tt_johannes: it ends up in _station_pool, which you access by Station::Get(station_id)
19:48:38  <frosch123> and iteratate by FOR_ALL_STATIONS(st) {}
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19:49:02  <frosch123> argoneus: the correct question would have been: why is the savegame not stored in a self-describing format
19:50:30  <tt_johannes> frosch123: The loader only stores them in _station_desc... Where is the data from _station_desc transmitted to _station_pool?
19:51:31  <frosch123> tt_johannes: _station_desc is a static constant
19:51:42  <frosch123> SlObject(bst, waypoint ? _waypoint_desc : _station_desc); <- the data is stored in "bst"
19:52:38  <tt_johannes> frosch123: but bst looses scope... so where is the pointer remembered?
19:53:14  <frosch123> see the "index" parameter to the new operator
19:53:25  <frosch123> that index is the station-id
19:53:35  <argoneus> frosch123: well you can write and read structs trivially if you know their size
19:53:45  <argoneus> assuming they don't change much between patches
19:53:46  <frosch123> you can access it via the station pool, as written above
19:54:24  <frosch123> argoneus: you can jump into water easily, assuming you can swim
19:54:39  <frosch123> meh
19:54:49  <frosch123> i still have trouble with giving absurd answers
19:55:14  <argoneus> frosch123: what exactly changes in a savegame between patches?
19:55:23  <argoneus> if you add a new feature or fix a bug a savefile shouldn't care about that
19:55:39  <tt_johannes> oh oh, I recall things like "new (x) y;", this was one of the complicated things of C++...
19:55:40  <argoneus> unless it's save-breaking somehow
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19:56:11  <frosch123> tt_johannes: it's worse in this case :p
19:56:27  <frosch123> ignore the word "new" in that line
19:56:43  <frosch123> and just assume it gives you station "index"
19:57:24  <tt_johannes> frosch123: I must get it ... :P
19:57:43  <frosch123> tt_johannes: do you know "emplace" in c++11 containers?
19:57:43  <tt_johannes> where is that new thing described? how do I google that?
19:57:50  <tt_johannes> frosch123: yes
19:58:08  <frosch123> ok, openttd twists "new" in some dirty tricks to work like emplace
19:58:14  <frosch123> because ottd is older than c++11
19:58:41  <frosch123> "new (index) Station()" returns "_station_pool[index]", and initialises it
19:59:53  <tt_johannes> it says that "char* p = new('*') char[6];" creates an array of six chars, each initialized with a * ?
19:59:59  <frosch123> tt_johannes: src/core/pool_type.hpp: inline void *operator new(size_t size, size_t index)
20:00:29  <argoneus> well
20:00:36  <argoneus> I guess I can see why things are messy now :P
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20:01:24  <frosch123> argoneus: really, when you have a frying pan made of plastic, the correct question is not "why is it not made of stone?"
20:02:31  <frosch123> you are complaining about how things were coded around 2000, and suggest to code them like one did in 1970
20:02:52  <tt_johannes> frosch123: ok, now I start getting that constructor thing .... :p
20:05:26  <tt_johannes> ok, so all the data is stored in pools...
20:05:54  <tt_johannes> now, what I actually wanted to do is making a graph of all the train lines....
20:06:38  <argoneus> frosch123: it doesn't have to be a struct, but it doesn't look complicated
20:06:44  <argoneus> just a unified format that's described somewhere...
20:07:01  <tt_johannes> I guess that can only be done with using the "implicit" stations? That's the best way to guess what routes my trains are taking?
20:08:15  <frosch123> yup
20:08:34  <frosch123> FOR_ALL_STATIONS should give you the nodes
20:08:43  <frosch123> FOR_ALL_ORDERLISTS shuold give you the edges
20:08:57  <argoneus> I just don't see why you'd have to load a savegame in some mystical chunks when you need all of it anyway
20:09:10  <argoneus> shrug
20:10:02  <tt_johannes> great, many thanks!
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20:10:54  <tt_johannes> from just grepping the source, I think openttd should still be compilable with non-c++11-compilers?
20:11:03  <frosch123> yes
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20:11:16  <frosch123> currently it is compileable with both 98 and 11
20:11:21  <tt_johannes> and that won't change in the next months, right?
20:11:28  <frosch123> likely :p
20:11:40  <tt_johannes> ok...
20:11:51  <frosch123> 1.5. does not compile with 11, or at least not without warngins
20:11:56  <frosch123> trunk compiles with both
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20:16:21  <andythenorth> o/
20:16:26  <argoneus> hey andyman
20:16:58  <V453000> good evening good sir
20:17:10  <V453000> may thee pixels obey your will
20:18:07  <V453000>  /thy will?
20:18:21  <argoneus> yo will fam
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20:21:56  <argoneus> V453000: have you ever made 3d porn
20:22:04  <argoneus> asking for a friend
20:22:14  <V453000> no?
20:22:15  <V453000> yet?
20:22:21  <V453000> huehuehue
20:22:22  <argoneus> I like your optimism
20:22:44  <V453000> I like how you are asking for a friend
20:22:55  * andythenorth made Flash porn
20:22:58  <andythenorth> several times
20:23:00  <V453000> :D
20:23:02  <argoneus> andythenorth: link? for a friend
20:23:10  <andythenorth> nah, long since removed
20:23:15  <V453000> yeah my friends suddenly raised their attention as well
20:23:38  <argoneus> that feel when you will never make porn because you can't draw
20:23:40  <argoneus> why live
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20:23:51  <andythenorth> I don’t know
20:23:56  <argoneus> andythenorth you will know
20:24:05  <argoneus> do porn artists get pleasure out of their own works?
20:24:09  <V453000> I don't think you are unable to make pron just because you can't draw
20:24:15  <argoneus> or would that be similar to incest
20:24:23  <andythenorth> I feel the conversation here has taken a dive
20:24:25  <V453000> I think most of 3D shit comes from asia
20:24:31  <argoneus> it's because you mentioned flash porn
20:24:34  <V453000> so I wouldn't be surprised about anything
20:24:44  <argoneus> V453000: the quality of it is crap though
20:24:53  <argoneus> the devs and artists barely get paid anything and they have tight deadlines
20:25:00  <V453000> can't say I am a large scale consumer of that. XD
20:25:04  <argoneus> it doesn't sell much apparently
20:25:05  <V453000> ok
20:25:12  <argoneus> all I'm saying is
20:25:18  <argoneus> if you decide to do 3d porn, don't expect to profit off it
20:25:19  <argoneus> :P
20:25:30  <V453000> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
20:25:33  <V453000> WELL SHAME
20:25:41  <V453000> still, I bet if it's good it makes shitload of money
20:25:44  <argoneus> you can draw comics though
20:25:46  <V453000> esp with some VR and devices and stuff
20:25:54  <argoneus> oh yeah
20:26:01  <argoneus> VR might boost the sales a lot
20:26:06  <V453000> if the "gameplay" is good, ... :)
20:26:14  <argoneus> a friend of mine would surely buy one if he had the money
20:26:47  <V453000> see, $$$$
20:26:57  <argoneus> V453000 will you get an oculus rift
20:27:03  <V453000> no
20:27:04  <argoneus> with your factoriodosh
20:27:11  <argoneus> it only costs 800 euro
20:27:13  <argoneus> ;_;
20:28:02  <V453000> I respect the technology, but I do not really like detaching myself from the reality completely. I like staring at a screen or whatever, but putting goggles with headphones on my head to be completely fucked and disconnected sounds to me like going way too far. And I would consider myself as far from a "normal person"
20:28:24  <andythenorth> also it currently makes lots of people sick
20:28:28  <V453000> haha
20:28:32  <andythenorth> some people are susceptible, some are not
20:28:40  <andythenorth> possibly depends how good your ears at balance
20:28:46  <andythenorth> or something similar
20:28:48  <argoneus> it's just motion sickness
20:28:50  <argoneus> it's not VR sickness
20:28:54  <V453000> yeah
20:29:03  <V453000> which is another hm thing
20:29:09  <andythenorth> it’s motion sickness, but eh, you’re not moving? o_O
20:29:14  <andythenorth> so inverse motion sickness?
20:29:21  <planetmaker> ho ho :)
20:29:23  <V453000> but if I had no wife and money to spare, I would probably buy it just to try the pron XD
20:29:50  * argoneus throws the mature V453000 that doesn't want to detach himself from reality into the trash
20:30:25  <V453000> even though I do not think it is perfectly fine to live with virtual/over-sexualized ideas either
20:30:31  <V453000> but ye, 'tever
20:30:35  <argoneus> well
20:30:39  <argoneus> people have had fantasies since forever
20:30:47  <V453000> of course
20:31:03  <argoneus> and tbh
20:31:14  <V453000> it's always about perception and how the individual handles it in their head
20:31:25  <argoneus> I'd rather have sheltered neckbeards who get off to virtual girls than people who commit heinous crimes on the street
20:31:36  <argoneus> :<
20:31:42  <V453000> heh well, that is kind of obvious :P
20:31:57  <planetmaker> long live the matrix
20:32:00  <argoneus> but yeah I see where you are going
20:32:10  <argoneus> people have died of starvation playing world of warcraft
20:32:11  <Alberth> andythenorth:  motion sickness is about discrepancies between what you see and movement that you feel. While a car is moving you are sitting still
20:32:14  <argoneus> let alone if they immerse themselves fully
20:32:22  <argoneus> it shouldn't be an issue with moderation though
20:32:37  <andythenorth> Alberth
but your ears are moving
20:32:39  <V453000> it is all very relative :)
20:32:41  <andythenorth> in space
20:32:41  <argoneus> I can't wait for someone to stop eating and die playing VR stuff and then they will have to shut down
20:32:46  <andythenorth> but do you know?
20:32:49  <andythenorth> if there’s no acceleration...
20:32:50  <argoneus> >_>
20:33:04  <V453000> argoneus: I am talking more about the psychological side of things rather than you would die because you do not do XYZ
20:33:07  <andythenorth> argoneus: “I can’t wait for” :P
20:33:15  <andythenorth> does not come across well in irc :P
20:33:20  <Alberth> in space there is also no reference point to see you're moving :p
20:33:20  <argoneus> oops
20:33:21  <andythenorth> “I wish someone would die"
20:33:22  <argoneus> it was sarcasm
20:33:29  <andythenorth> ha
20:33:32  <argoneus> or however to call it
20:33:34  <Alberth> but yeah, you'd get sick too, I think
20:33:49  <argoneus> but it's a common thing
20:33:59  <argoneus> when someone shoots up a school they always blame videogames
20:34:16  <argoneus> as if it wasn't bad enough already :(
20:34:31  <argoneus> VR might take it to the next level
20:34:37  <argoneus> I actually never thought about this, thanks V453000 for the nightmare fuel
20:34:37  <V453000> well yeah that is another thing
20:34:42  <V453000> what?
20:34:57  <argoneus> I never thought about people immersing themselves so much they can't tell reality apart
20:35:01  <argoneus> it probably will happen won't it
20:35:08  <V453000> that is not really what I meant
20:35:10  <argoneus> oh
20:35:13  <argoneus> what did you mean then fuck :D
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20:36:20  <V453000> In specific what I was talking about is that when you watch porn (a lot), some people often tend to expect women to be over-sexualized and do not appreciate "normal" women, it changes their expectations and requirements. What I meant was that VR could make this even more noticeable/dangerous
20:36:40  <argoneus> ooooh, porn
20:37:15  <V453000> of course it matters how the person perceives it and how they handle it in their head
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20:37:30  <V453000> but I believe such effect is there on average / in general
20:37:39  <argoneus> tbhl
20:37:46  <argoneus> watching porn has made me appreciate "normal" women more
20:37:55  <argoneus> porn actors are disgusting to me for some reason
20:38:09  <argoneus> it all feels fake and staged
20:38:11  <V453000> I honestly have no clue what influence it had on me, I did not make that study :P
20:38:12  <argoneus> (I wonder why
20:38:12  <argoneus> )
20:38:20  <andythenorth> V453000: you have no control group :D
20:38:27  <V453000> but just considering what effects would VR have
20:38:34  <V453000> andythenorth: control group? :D
20:38:51  <argoneus> V453000: people who don't watch porn
20:38:57  <andythenorth> you’d need at least two V453000s
20:39:00  <andythenorth> and that’s one too many
20:39:03  <V453000> xd
20:39:41  <V453000> I didn't say I boycott it 100%
20:40:01  <argoneus> tbh
20:40:08  <argoneus> looking at who makes porn games
20:40:14  <argoneus> the VR experience will probably be anime girls
20:40:19  <V453000> XD
20:40:20  <argoneus> im not sure how I feel about this
20:40:32  <V453000> anime feels wtf weird to me in general so ye
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20:41:05  <argoneus> I like my chinese cartoons but I wouldn't obsess over it
20:41:11  <argoneus> it's just a story someone wrote
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20:42:34  <frosch123> V453000: maybe continue with hentai then
20:42:47  <frosch123> you know negative * negative = positive ?
20:43:14  <V453000> not sure it applies anywhere XD
20:44:14  <V453000> does hentai always mean tentacle shit?
20:44:19  <argoneus> no
20:44:25  <V453000> or the drawn crap in geneal?
20:44:56  <argoneus> it's generally japanese drawn porn
20:45:04  <argoneus> doesn't matter if it's moving or has tentacles or whatever
20:45:09  <V453000> right
20:45:20  <V453000> well I don't get any of the drawn stuff in general
20:45:38  <argoneus> it's generally common fantasies
20:45:43  <V453000> mhm
20:45:44  <argoneus> that you can't really explore otherwise
20:45:55  <argoneus> I mean, if they wanted something realistic they wouldn't need to draw it, right
20:46:09  <V453000> well yeah that is understandable, but the visual style is really repulsive to me
20:46:10  <argoneus> it's not rocket science
20:46:22  <argoneus> that's just japs for you
20:46:23  <argoneus> >_>
20:46:25  <V453000> ye
20:46:53  <argoneus> I kinda like the art
20:46:56  <argoneus> some animes even have a decent plot
20:47:01  <argoneus> (as opposed to "plot")
20:47:04  <V453000> XD
20:47:11  <V453000> I believe that
20:47:18  <argoneus> I watch western stuff too
20:47:20  <argoneus> it's just
20:47:23  <argoneus> there
20:47:33  <frosch123> V453000: if you say, you are a "haptic" person, it sounds cooler
20:47:36  <argoneus> if people don't like it can't blame them :P
20:47:38  <V453000> but looking at a for-children-like cartoon which should turn me on, is WTF
20:47:49  <argoneus> "for children"
20:47:52  <V453000> won't ask what means haptic
20:47:53  <argoneus> I have bad news for you :D
20:48:00  <V453000> argoneus: visual style..
20:48:28  <frosch123> i am pretty sure someone wrote oni the forums that NUTS looks like it is for kids
20:48:51  <V453000> do they jack off to it as well?
20:48:52  <V453000> XD
20:49:05  <argoneus> V453000: there's some popular gorey/mature anime
20:49:12  <argoneus> where their eyes don't take half their face
20:49:16  <V453000> LD
20:49:20  <argoneus> it's just stylization
20:49:21  <V453000> XD
20:49:28  <V453000> ye whatever
20:50:11  <argoneus> when someone says anime most people imagine the schoolgirl moeshit
20:50:18  <argoneus> where they do retarded shit that's supposed to be cute
20:50:26  <argoneus> is that about right
20:50:29  <V453000> yeah cute except with dicks XDD
20:50:46  <V453000>  /or other things
20:50:51  <argoneus> lol
20:51:10  <argoneus> as weird as it may seem
20:51:12  <argoneus> some people are into that :(
20:51:34  <V453000> well don't judge :) that i do not understand it does not mean I am against anybody doing it
20:51:40  <V453000> people are weird, especially in this area.
20:51:48  <argoneus> "weird"
20:51:50  <argoneus> everyone is weird :P
20:52:05  <argoneus> I'm sure if we went deep enough we'd find fucked up stuff inside you
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20:52:19  <V453000> possibly
20:52:25  <V453000>  /surely
20:52:27  <argoneus> :D
20:53:29  <argoneus> many of my friends who hated everything eastern eventually found an anime they actually liked
20:54:25  <argoneus> it's an absurdly huge set of different genres
20:56:17  <argoneus> saying "anime sucks" is like saying "movies suck"
20:58:52  <frosch123> but, movies do suck?
21:00:11  <argoneus> frosch123: that's pretty rude ok
21:00:19  <argoneus> I bet you don't even store your movies in a struct
21:00:57  <frosch123> just as much as eddi stores his ottd savegames in a struct
21:01:27  <argoneus> I still don't get why you had to be so condescending :(
21:01:31  <argoneus> what did I do to you frosch friend
21:01:56  <argoneus> instead of a simple "no that's stupid" I got a bunch of weird analogies
21:02:03  <argoneus> rip
21:03:18  <frosch123> you were approaching the singularity
21:03:58  * andythenorth is highly singular
21:04:03  <V453000> if you expect everybody to be "weird", defining what is "rude" is pretty tough
21:04:12  <argoneus> oh boy here ew go
21:04:13  <argoneus> we*
21:04:40  <argoneus> frosch123: then at least riddle me this
21:04:45  <argoneus> why do saves break inbetween patches?
21:04:54  <argoneus> is there no spec for savegame structure?
21:05:42  <V453000> pathes are shit, go watch tetris porn
21:05:42  <V453000> GG
21:05:46  <V453000> bombs fired
21:05:54  <argoneus> pathes?
21:05:58  <V453000> ch
21:06:05  <argoneus> ohh
21:06:57  <frosch123> savegame format version 1: amount of money, amount of trains, amount of ships. savegame saved as: 234984, 421, 0
21:07:29  <frosch123> savegame format version 2: new feature "roadvehicles" -> format: amount of rv, amount of money, amount of trains, amount of ships
21:07:40  <andythenorth> all the things I don’t buy on ebay
21:07:47  <frosch123> loading of old save -> 234984 road vehicles, 421 money, 0 trains, crash
21:07:56  <V453000> like
21:07:59  <argoneus> frosch123: I get this, that makes sense
21:08:09  <argoneus> but if it breaks even inbetween bugfix patches
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21:08:23  <argoneus> where no feature that has to be saved in savegame is added
21:08:26  <argoneus> isn't that weird?
21:08:53  <argoneus> at least that's what I understood before
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21:09:07  <frosch123> you do realize that ottd 1.5.3 does not only load 1.5.2 savegames? but also 0.0.1 saves?
21:09:22  <argoneus> well, I can't say I've tried
21:09:53  <argoneus> I was basing it off you telling the guy that he shouldn't even try parsing the savegames himself
21:09:58  <argoneus> which sounded like the format was somehow very weird
21:10:02  <frosch123> and that you would have to create a new titlescreen from scratch, if every feature broke the savegame format
21:10:03  <argoneus> and changed all the time
21:10:34  <frosch123> argoneus: yes, there are 195 savegame versions in 10 years
21:10:47  <frosch123> isn't that pretty much "all the time"?
21:11:03  <planetmaker> and every major patch has its own unique version incompatible with any official format
21:11:19  <argoneus> a new savegame version every 18 days
21:11:19  <argoneus> o.o
21:11:22  <planetmaker> as it adds something to the savegame, as it stores something additional
21:11:24  <argoneus> that's.... wow
21:11:54  <argoneus> I thought it was like every half a year or so
21:12:37  <argoneus> seems like it'd be quicker to just download the source for the version you want, and make it save relevant info about the map to another file when it loads a map
21:12:42  <frosch123> there were 50 version between 0.5.0 and 0.6.0
21:12:59  <frosch123> compared to 6 between 1.4.0 and 1.5.0
21:13:12  <frosch123> and 0 between 1.5.0 and 1.6.0 :p
21:13:18  <argoneus> wait, does something like cargodist warrant a new savegame format?
21:13:25  <argoneus> oh wait, every savegame has all the game settings stored on it
21:13:26  <argoneus> oh my god
21:13:55  <argoneus> okay
21:13:59  <argoneus> putting all this into perspective
21:14:04  <argoneus> "just put it in a struct" is probably ignorant :P
21:14:24  <andythenorth> hmm
21:14:36  <andythenorth> adding a manganese cargo, got a way to dig it up and export it
21:14:46  <andythenorth> but no way to use process it into anything useful
21:14:51  <andythenorth> Bad Feature?
21:15:05  <frosch123> is manganee produced by the paper mill?
21:16:06  <andythenorth> coincidentally not
21:18:47  <V453000> wtf is manganese?
21:18:50  <V453000> manga porn tapes?
21:19:03  <V453000> oh this shit
21:19:11  <argoneus> mangan
21:19:12  <frosch123> i think it is used in cheap tooth fillings
21:19:16  <V453000> is actually called mangan in czech yeah XD
21:19:48  <argoneus> "manga porn tapes"
21:19:56  <argoneus> god damn it :D
21:20:11  <V453000> jesus christ andythenorth don't we have enough rock-type cargoes which look the same fucking gray-ish way to draw already
21:20:13  <V453000> ? :d
21:20:19  <andythenorth> no
21:20:20  <andythenorth> clearly
21:20:43  <V453000>  /me drops 100% FIRS support for NUTS cause this is derailing XD
21:20:43  <argoneus> uranium when
21:20:54  <argoneus> wait
21:20:57  <argoneus> andy is FIRS man?
21:21:01  <andythenorth> no
21:21:02  <V453000> im done
21:21:13  <argoneus> "andythenorth and others"
21:21:16  <frosch123> andythenorth: remove fruits, add bananas and tomatoes instead
21:21:17  <andythenorth> not me
21:21:18  <argoneus> oy
21:21:30  <andythenorth> frosch123: I do like bananas and tomatos
21:21:35  <argoneus> >GPL v6
21:21:35  <andythenorth> or tomatoes
21:21:36  <argoneus> v2*
21:21:37  <argoneus> dropped
21:21:41  <andythenorth> they are some of my favourite fruits
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21:21:55  <V453000> except tomatoes are vegetable
21:21:56  <V453000> GG
21:21:56  <argoneus> andythenorth: FIRS has nice art
21:21:57  <V453000> I WIN
21:21:58  <frosch123> andythenorth: and they are visually distinguishable
21:21:59  <argoneus> you are a good man
21:22:10  <argoneus> FIRS art suits openttd
21:22:11  <argoneus> unlike NUTS
21:22:14  * argoneus hides
21:22:19  <andythenorth> yellow, red
21:22:24  <andythenorth> green apples also?
21:22:25  <andythenorth> nah
21:22:31  <V453000> argoneus wait for BRIX :>
21:22:33  <V453000> then shit blood
21:22:37  <andythenorth> frosch123: can you make alcohol from bananas?
21:22:38  <argoneus> I'd rather not
21:22:40  <argoneus> that sounds unhealthy
21:22:49  <andythenorth> V453000 are you going to do BRIX-style sprites for all of FIRS?
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21:22:56  <frosch123> andythenorth: you can make alcohol even from hazelnut
21:22:57  <V453000> yeah no
21:22:57  <argoneus> wait V453000
21:23:02  <argoneus> weren't you making something like that already?
21:23:08  <V453000> wtf?
21:23:10  <argoneus> I remember you linking some ground textures
21:23:11  <argoneus> before
21:23:22  <andythenorth> is it elephants get drunk on fermenting bananas?
21:23:25  <V453000> haha my threats are coming more realistic now? :P
21:23:26  <argoneus> oh yeah
21:23:27  <argoneus> RAWR
21:23:28  <andythenorth> and smash houses?
21:23:35  <V453000> RAWR is bad concept
21:23:39  <V453000> BRIX shall wreck shit
21:23:46  <frosch123> no, those are other fruits
21:24:04  <argoneus> V453000 you have some interesting naming schemes
21:24:04  <frosch123> but yes, elephants instead of regular livestock is also good
21:24:05  <V453000> in soviet transport, brix shit you
21:24:20  <argoneus> aren't you about running out of 4 letter names?
21:24:24  <V453000> nope
21:24:47  <V453000> bet I forgot some
21:24:58  <Alberth> argoneus:  ever calculated how many 4 letter names exist?
21:25:05  <V453000> haha
21:25:06  <argoneus> Alberth: nope
21:25:08  <frosch123> what is GEAR and RIDE?
21:25:10  <argoneus> that's nontrivial
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21:25:21  <argoneus> ZALX is not a valid name
21:25:28  <Alberth> @calc 26*26*26*26
21:25:28  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 456976
21:25:31  <V453000> GEAR is a train set I will make one day, RIDE was a RV set I started making models for, but now I will use them in BRIX
21:25:35  <argoneus> it has to be an actual word ok
21:25:37  <argoneus> :<
21:25:39  <Alberth> yeah, very nontrivial indeed :)
21:25:56  <argoneus> your calculation produces XXXX as valid
21:25:57  <V453000> anyway I gtfo
21:25:57  <Alberth> like RAWR is a word
21:25:59  <V453000> gnight
21:25:59  <argoneus> I don't want porn in my openttd
21:26:03  <Alberth> gn V
21:26:07  <__ln__> why not?
21:26:12  <V453000> train porn not good enough?
21:26:28  <V453000> btw BRIX Realism is XXXX
21:26:31  <V453000> just saying
21:26:33  <argoneus> V453000: you should make a mod
21:26:43  <argoneus> Completely Universal New Trains
21:26:46  <V453000> OMG HE CALLED NEWGRFS A MOD
21:26:46  <argoneus> as a sequel to NUTS
21:26:54  <V453000>  /me runs in tears
21:27:03  <V453000> NUTS sequel will be GEAR
21:27:07  <frosch123> only dorpsgek can make mods
21:27:08  <Alberth> hope you can sleep despite
21:27:22  <argoneus> but they are mods
21:27:22  <argoneus> ((((
21:27:26  <argoneus> stop bully
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21:38:50  <andythenorth> hmm
21:39:07  <andythenorth> maybe Steel Mill should accept manganese not scrap metal
21:39:18  <andythenorth> or maybe there should be ’steel mill inputs yard'
21:39:24  <andythenorth> which makes ‘steel mill supplies’ o_O
21:40:03  <supermop> make iron first then make steel out of that?
21:40:35  <andythenorth> what’s the chain?
21:41:54  <argoneus> andythenorth: what about uranium
21:43:13  <andythenorth> problem is boringly low production amounts
21:43:26  <andythenorth> uranium, diamonds, gold, coltan, other rare earths
21:43:30  <andythenorth> all low output
21:43:49  <andythenorth> not a lot of challenge
21:44:17  <argoneus> you can bring uranium to nuclear plants
21:44:20  <argoneus> and then bring waste to the ocean
21:44:22  <argoneus> and get paid for it
21:45:32  <Alberth> at 1 wagon every year?
21:45:39  <Alberth> gn
21:45:51  <argoneus> sure
21:45:56  <argoneus> make the price spike
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21:46:06  <argoneus> what's wrong with having ultra-rare resources :o
21:46:52  <andythenorth> nothing, but it’s boring to transport
21:47:13  <andythenorth> the game (as I play it) works best with 100t-1000t industry outputs
21:47:26  <andythenorth> that creates enough traffic chaos to keep routing challenging
21:47:32  <andythenorth> but isn’t wtf
21:49:11  <argoneus> oh right
21:49:19  <argoneus> the game should be fun
21:49:20  <argoneus> I forgo
21:49:20  <argoneus> t
21:49:58  * andythenorth learns about steel alloys
21:56:33  <andythenorth> hmm
21:56:38  <andythenorth> maybe FIRS needs a total rethink
21:56:44  <andythenorth> frosch123: 128 cargos?
21:56:45  <andythenorth> o_O
21:57:21  <andythenorth> 9 input, 6 output per industry?
21:58:42  <argoneus> andythenorth: might as well play factorio
21:59:15  <andythenorth> does factorio have other metals added to steel for steel alloys?
21:59:28  <argoneus> possibly with mods
21:59:32  <argoneus> in vanilla you just burn iron ore into iron
21:59:36  <argoneus> and then burn iron into steel
21:59:46  <andythenorth> ‘not realism'
21:59:53  <argoneus> there are mods that make it complex af
22:00:03  <argoneus> but it adds tedium in my experience
22:12:45  <andythenorth> also bedtime
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22:13:10  <argoneus> why does everyone leave irc when they go bed
22:13:10  <argoneus> ((
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22:51:41  <Wolf01> 'night
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