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00:07:17 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-160-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:15:48 *** Wormnest__ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:32:23 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:42:01 <Wolf01> 'night 00:42:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:52:11 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 01:29:52 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 01:33:02 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5158d.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 01:45:56 *** Milek7 [~Milek7@ip-94-42-35-78.multimo.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C22F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:49 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:f0c1:7b9b:986c:ca9] has joined #openttd 02:53:18 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:49:31 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d025fa8.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 03:51:13 *** Oussama [~oftc-webi@41.137.75.10] has joined #openttd 03:51:20 <Oussama> hello 03:51:36 * Oussama slaps Guest588 around a bit with a large fishbot 03:52:10 *** Oussama [~oftc-webi@41.137.75.10] has quit [] 03:56:30 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d8238d4.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:22:37 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:37:40 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:39:41 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:53:19 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:32:40 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 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has joined #openttd 11:04:15 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 11:05:17 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:09:56 <Milek7> station can influence rating of many towns, or only one? 11:11:10 <Alberth> only one, I think 11:21:57 <Milek7> hm, GSStation.IsWithinTownInfluence can return true for two towns 11:22:56 <Alberth> :O 11:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Milek7: the station doesn't even need to be near the town it's affecting 11:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get very far away with stationwalking 11:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but as long as the original name stays the same, the affected town stays the same 11:25:48 <Milek7> where is the code checking affecting stations? 11:26:14 <Milek7> it use cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0] or something else? 11:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the town is only calculated on initial station construction 11:27:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and then stored in the station 11:29:10 <Milek7> static void UpdateTownRating(Town *t) 11:29:15 <Milek7> if (DistanceSquare(st->xy, t->xy) <= t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0]) { 11:29:45 <Milek7> it checks distance 11:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> then it's even weirder 11:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but still "t" will be the associated town stored in the station 11:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> this check then will filter out stations that are too far away 11:32:43 <Milek7> t is current town 11:32:50 <Milek7> and it checks for FOR_ALL_STATIONS(st) { 11:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think those are enough fragments to decide what this code is doing 11:34:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f74328c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 11:34:23 <Milek7> it's simple 11:34:47 <Milek7> iterating over all stations, compares distance with t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0] and adjusts rating 11:47:25 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db51285.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 11:58:11 <Milek7> value set by GSTown.SetGrowthRate can be overriden by game? 11:59:21 <_dp_> not rly 12:00:29 <_dp_> Milek7, what are you trying to do btw? raising some interesting questions lately) 12:01:18 <Milek7> i'm writing another city growth controlling script 12:01:44 <_dp_> aren't there enough already?) 12:01:49 <Milek7> no :) 12:04:15 <_dp_> I consedered continuing The_Dude's script or making my own when starting CityMania, but then looked at how GS works and gave up on doing anything with it xD 12:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so, who stole my replacement battery? 12:05:28 <_dp_> little green battery eater? 12:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> ah there it is 12:10:16 <Alberth> no battery eater attached? 12:23:02 <_johannes> does anyone know whether any of the pathfinders consider traffic? 12:23:33 <_johannes> e.g. if there are two routes from A to B that are equally good, does the train take the route where less other trains might block it? 12:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> none of the pathfinders will check for presence of a vehicle 12:23:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but the train pathfinder will consider red signals and path reservations 12:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> for the first 10(-ish) signals along the path 12:24:47 <frosch123> and the road path finder will account for vehicles currently loading in drive-through stops 12:25:26 <_johannes> hmm I wondered if one could get the graph of via-stations by just running the pathfinder around the current map, but if there are currently red signals, that would not work? 12:26:10 <_johannes> maybe I'll have to order *all* trains into depot and then run the pathfinder? :) 12:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you might need to check how to flip the mode to "don't check signals anymore" 12:26:44 <_johannes> ah... 12:31:48 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:15 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:01:44 *** zuzak [~zuzak@saraneth.lon.fluv.net] has joined #openttd 13:15:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:15:55 <Wolf01> o/ 13:21:27 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-139-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 13:28:48 <Alberth> o/ 13:29:25 <V453000> yo humiez 13:48:49 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:12:26 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:22:52 <andythenorth> o/ 14:30:30 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 14:30:38 <George> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7991 14:32:54 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 14:36:45 <Alberth> #openttd.devzone is a better channel for that George 14:37:26 <Alberth> admins of devzone should be there :) 14:40:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:40:57 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [] 14:41:15 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 14:42:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:44:25 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [] 14:46:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 14:54:18 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:59:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:08:32 *** roidal_ [~roland@194-152-174-219.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 15:09:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:15:03 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-139-212.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:20:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:24:58 <andythenorth> o/ 15:25:04 <Alberth> o/ 15:26:17 * andythenorth has been busy 15:27:14 <Alberth> lots of pixels and code :) 15:31:52 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:35:23 <andythenorth> nothing so fun 15:35:41 <andythenorth> did an audit of how well hardened my OS is 15:35:42 <Alberth> :( 15:35:59 <Alberth> and it's not? 15:36:37 <andythenorth> it was adequate 15:37:10 <andythenorth> I deleted a lot of unused apps and their support files 15:37:27 <andythenorth> and removed the Flash plugin and Unity plugins completely, instead of disabling them 15:37:45 <Alberth> that saves space at least :) 15:39:31 <andythenorth> I didnât have sshd running, nor any sharing services 15:40:03 <andythenorth> none of the known OS X malware present 15:40:18 <andythenorth> and anything thatâs really evil, Iâd never be able to detect 15:40:43 <andythenorth> so eh 15:41:50 <Alberth> everything looks fine 15:42:22 <andythenorth> the thing that I want a tinfoil hat for is keystroke loggers 15:42:29 <andythenorth> for some reason, I have an irrational fear of them 15:43:33 <Alberth> put some tape over your camera :) 15:43:57 <Alberth> how often do you type passwords? 15:43:58 <andythenorth> I am literally doing that 15:44:15 <Alberth> it's quite sensible, imho 15:44:33 <Alberth> if you use ssh, there are very few passwords that you need 15:45:07 <Alberth> I don't think keystroke loggers are much used; it's too much work finding out which keystrokes are a password 15:45:24 <andythenorth> I type admin passwords on my system all day long, everything interesting requires authenticating 15:45:51 <Alberth> unless they specifically target you, in which case, you have a bigger problem already 15:46:16 <andythenorth> 'they' 15:46:17 <andythenorth> :) 15:46:41 <Alberth> maybe emigrate to the moon or so :p 15:47:14 <andythenorth> that would pose a problem 15:47:26 <andythenorth> because then the SLA couldnât be met 15:50:00 * andythenorth must now to pixels :) 15:50:31 <Alberth> good idea 15:50:41 <Alberth> what are you fixing or adding? 15:50:43 <frosch123> what's your reasoning for openttd being necessary on your system? 15:58:10 <Alberth> testing pixels? 16:20:39 <andythenorth> itâs not necessary 16:23:16 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:27 <andythenorth> do any of you keep OpenTTD virtualised? 16:28:56 <frosch123> i keep eints virtualised 16:29:23 <andythenorth> because you donât trust the authors? 16:29:55 <frosch123> because it runs a webserver, sshd and other stuff, and i have port-forwarding from outside to it, so i can sometimes show people stuff :) 16:30:36 <andythenorth> fair 16:30:54 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 16:34:04 * andythenorth considers virtualised OpenTTD 16:35:06 <andythenorth> ironically, the *only* identified piece of malware on my system was a windows .exe alongside Crossover (Wine) 16:36:02 <andythenorth> Crossover was installed only to test the windows version of OpenTTD :P 16:37:38 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:28 <Milek7> cargodist should be used with freight? 16:52:10 <Alberth> depends on how you play 16:52:25 <Milek7> people at my server hate it 16:52:46 <Alberth> I use it 16:53:02 <Alberth> but then again, I don't do city building or pax transport 16:53:21 <andythenorth> .me uses it 16:53:22 <Alberth> but I also know people that disable it 16:54:20 <Alberth> you don't want symmetric mode for cargo, it's not useful mostly 16:54:39 <Alberth> there are few exceptions, like mail and values in temperate iirc 16:54:57 <Alberth> I never use symmetric mode, it feels like cheating :p 16:55:35 <frosch123> i also play without cdist 16:55:44 <frosch123> it manages something automatically, which i want to manage myself 16:56:50 <frosch123> cdist is kind of its own game goal 16:57:00 <frosch123> so it conflicts with any other goal which you may have 16:57:18 <andythenorth> do you feel like it sets goals? 16:57:28 <andythenorth> I let go of the idea that it chooses any destination 16:57:35 <andythenorth> now I have learned to love cdist 16:57:42 <andythenorth> âloveâ is a strong word :) 16:57:46 <andythenorth> maybe âlike' 16:57:56 <frosch123> to me a goal is usually something inhomogeneous 16:57:57 <Alberth> stockholm syndrome :p 16:58:11 <frosch123> like "some high value somewhere" 16:58:25 <frosch123> cdist distributes evenly, so it works against that 16:58:36 <frosch123> like with firs supplies 16:58:40 <Alberth> only if you let it 16:58:47 <frosch123> it works to distribute supplies evenly 16:58:54 <frosch123> but you cannot focus delivery to some location 17:00:09 <frosch123> Alberth: yes, cdest would be even worse :p 17:00:21 <frosch123> if there would be cdest, there would only be a single game mode 17:00:30 <Alberth> indeed 17:00:37 <frosch123> at least you can cheat cdist a bit 17:02:13 <andythenorth> by using multiple pickup stations, I seem to get the results I want 17:02:17 <Milek7> some images from polish forum: http://upload.mouse.one.pl/images/183Absurd_CD_maszyny_1.2.png 17:02:31 <Milek7> http://upload.mouse.one.pl/images/652Absurd_CD_maszyny_1.1.png 17:02:40 <andythenorth> those tankers are nice 17:02:54 <Milek7> they have some error in settings or what? 17:04:55 <andythenorth> bye 17:04:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:05:46 <frosch123> Milek7: no, cdist sets the goal, then you have to provide the necessary transport capacity 17:06:28 <frosch123> when playing without cdist, you decide where stuff goes, which essentially means stuff is distributed according to the transport capacity which you provide 17:06:55 <frosch123> when playing with cdist, noone cares about your capacity. it is expected that you change your capacities to match 17:07:41 <frosch123> if you have lots of cargo waiting somewhere when playing with cdist, it just means you are not fulfulling the goal 17:08:07 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:08:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:08:18 <frosch123> if that is not your king of goal, you should disable cdist 17:08:28 <frosch123> if it is your kind of goal, you should play better :p 17:08:57 <Alberth> :D 17:12:18 <Milek7> so if there lots of cargo waiting cdist dosen't distribute it evenly? 17:13:26 <frosch123> if people want to drive from krakow to warsaw, and all trains are full, they do not suddenly decide to drive to poznan instead 17:13:41 <frosch123> they will just wait, and complain about the bad train service 17:13:49 <frosch123> or leave the station and take the car 17:14:02 <Alberth> cdist mostly starts using other routes to the destination 17:14:11 <Alberth> or additional routes even 17:15:20 <frosch123> yes, other routes, but not other destinations :) 17:16:16 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> cdist never distributes evenly. it has a bias towards certain distances 17:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you can adjust that bias in the settings 17:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you have your passenger network totally overloaded, you can make them take shorter distances, which will usually make it easier to transport everybody 17:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but this makes cargodist very ill-suited for distribution of cargos, where you have a single or very few sources, like FIRS supplies 17:22:52 <Milek7> if two companies ordered cargo, and train company haven't sufficent capacity, they would propably try to deliver what they can evenly, not all capacity to one company and nothing to second 17:28:21 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:05 <frosch123> giving how unpopular it is for companies to compete for source industires, i don't think anyone bothered to make cdist affect the station rating or pickup distribution 17:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist tried a few methods of affecting station rating 17:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure which one ended up being included 17:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i think "reachable destinations" was dropped, but "cargo waiting at intermediate stations" was kept 17:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly not optimal 17:53:22 <Wolf01> bye 17:53:25 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 18:16:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18D97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:40:26 *** roidal_ [~roland@194-152-174-219.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 18:43:31 *** zeknurn` [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 18:45:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6CA7C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:48:19 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:48:19 *** zeknurn` is now known as zeknurn 18:51:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C22F.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:41 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:32:40 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 19:49:41 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:59:33 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f74328c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:28:42 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 20:41:38 <Supercheese> and now the entire country goes into a stupor for the Stupor Bowl 20:44:35 *** glx is now known as Guest2761 20:44:35 *** glx_ [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:44:35 *** glx_ is now known as glx 20:44:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 20:47:50 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:50:28 *** Guest2761 [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:50:32 *** glx_ 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glx is now known as Guest2766 21:00:14 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:17 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 21:05:15 *** Guest2764 [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:01 *** Guest2766 [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> can't be worse than carneval... 21:15:58 <TrueBrain> you could live in a country where Trump is running for president 21:16:01 <TrueBrain> *trolololol* 21:16:11 <Alberth> :D 21:17:44 <TrueBrain> SpComb: your bot lost his name a while ago ;) 21:18:27 <TrueBrain> Guest659 .. that seems weeks ago ;) 21:18:33 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:20:20 *** Guest588 [~Xaroth@250-193-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 21:20:32 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@250-193-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 21:22:24 <Supercheese> for the entire time I've been able to vote, every presidential candidate has been terrible, so there's nothing really new 21:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow i'm surrounded by cats all of a sudden 21:40:40 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-160-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:11 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 21:49:42 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:00 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 22:31:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6CA7C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:55 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:34:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18D97.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:24 <SpComb> TrueBrain: in disguise 22:50:21 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db51285.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:58:44 <Flygon> Suppercheese: Clearly the solution for you 22:58:52 <Flygon> Is to be able to vote for multiple people at once 22:58:59 <Flygon> In order from Most Preferable to Least Preferable 23:00:12 <Flygon> But USA is scared of such representative democratic values ? 23:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: how does that help if all candidates suck equally? 23:02:18 <Supercheese> yeah my vote would be "these are all morons" 23:02:27 <Flygon> You go in preference from Least Sucky to Most Sucky 23:02:33 <Supercheese> "preference" 23:02:44 <Flygon> I do advocate a "None of the Above" tickbox tho 23:03:13 <Supercheese> I'd imagine every election would end with that result though... 23:03:26 <Supercheese> "Wellp, nobody won... again" 23:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> there was this story about a guy (in canada?) who changed his name to "Above Znonofthe" so at the bottom of the ballot it said "Znonofthe, Above" 23:03:42 <Flygon> Well, the idea is 23:03:48 <Flygon> Is that if enough recall elections are called 23:03:58 <Flygon> Some electable candidates are bound to be forced up 23:04:10 <Flygon> If a large majority of seats initially kept voting no confidence 23:04:14 <Flygon> It is a huge initial shock 23:04:29 <Flygon> But after the parties/independants get themselves sorted, and become ELECTABLE 23:04:39 <Supercheese> sounds good in theory 23:04:48 <Supercheese> I have my doubts as to its practicality 23:04:53 <Flygon> The idea is that future elections will be more stable due to the politicans being forced to actually listen to their people 23:04:55 <Flygon> Oh, certainly 23:04:59 <Flygon> I share those doubts 23:05:03 <Supercheese> but hey, pretty much anything would be better than the morons currently in 23:05:07 <Flygon> But it'd be nice if it could be trialled 23:05:20 <Supercheese> on every ticket, you get a list of Moron #1, Moron #2... 23:05:28 <Flygon> But the Politicians would roar hard against it. They want a free lifetime job >_> 23:06:13 <Flygon> ON my ticket, I get Labor, Liberals, Greens, Christian Party, Family First, Sex Party (yes, THAT IS A REAL PARTY), Independants, Free Beer for College Students, ect... 23:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: i don't quite understand how this is supposed to work... 23:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> like "keep this seat empty if everybody votes 'no'?" 23:07:08 <Flygon> It forces a recall election 23:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and what does that do? 23:07:52 <Flygon> You hit the same scenario under standard electoral systems sometimes if the numbers are simply far too close to call 23:08:45 <Flygon> Well, everyone's dragged back to the polling booths (with candidates either dropping out, or new ones contesting the seat), to try and resolve the stalled election 23:08:56 <Flygon> Everyone in the seat 23:08:57 <Flygon> Not the nation 23:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and how does that solve any problems? 23:09:33 <Flygon> Allows the public to express what wankers pollies can be :B 23:09:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just like every other country that has runoff elections 23:09:57 <Flygon> Oh, wait 23:10:02 <Flygon> Are you discussing preferential voting? 23:10:14 <Flygon> Or the "All these Politicians are Wankers" checkbox? 23:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that last one 23:10:33 <Flygon> Right 23:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> although, the entire point of preferential voting is to avoid runoff elections. why it's now a benefit to reintroduce them is beyond me... 23:11:59 <Flygon> Well, if someone is ticking the box because they think none of the politicians are even worth consideration, even with a preferential system. And in the incredible unlikelyhood that over 50% of voters would agree with that viewpoint. Clearly all the candidates presented are either incredibly incompetent, or the public incredibly unsatisfied with the operation of the Government as a whole up to that point. 23:12:20 <Flygon> Both of which can reveal even deeper problems endemic in the Government's operation up to that point 23:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in this country there is a new wave of outrage every time that the voter turnout is on a record low, but still nothing ever changes 23:13:14 <Flygon> Incidentally, I'm astounded the UK runs on a "First Past the Post system". Esp. given how many different parties their parliament has. 23:13:29 <Flygon> Eddi: No mandatory voting? 23:13:41 <Flygon> In Australia, you're legally required to vote. Otherwise you're fined. 23:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> mandatory voting is evil(tm) 23:14:00 <Flygon> Obviously, this doesn't stop people from drawing penises onto their ballot then submitting those. 23:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's what communists did in east germany, it must be bad. 23:14:16 <Flygon> But the idea is once they're in, they'll feel like voting anyway 23:14:27 <Flygon> I... can see how you guys feel a bit burned from history x: 23:14:52 <Flygon> iirc, here, it was just introduced because... I forgot why. It was around 1917 when it was legislated 23:14:59 <Flygon> Voter turnout must've been abysmal or something 23:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause> in federal elections it's usually around 70%, in some state elections it drops to 50% 23:16:31 <Flygon> Yeah, here, it's over 90% for both 23:16:38 <Flygon> I do note, the fine here is between and 23:16:39 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 23:16:53 <Flygon> So... some people are so lazy they just pay the fine, because the fine is so absurdly low 23:17:07 <Flygon> They set the values in the 60s or 70s 23:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> in EU elections it's not great either 23:17:19 <Flygon> With inflation, the fines should be around 0-800 23:18:53 <Flygon> I'm just surprised how undemocratic a lot of European electoral systems can be 23:19:00 <Flygon> I expected them all to be very similar to Australia 23:19:07 <Flygon> ie. mandatory voting, preferences 23:19:11 <Flygon> But a large chunk aren't 23:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody has preferential voting... 23:19:43 <Flygon> How do you run a democracy without it?... 23:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> half of the countries has proportional voting, and the other half has runoff elections 23:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so if in the first round of voting, nobody has 50%, then two weeks later an election will be held between the two candidates with the most votes 23:20:39 <Flygon> Ahh, yes 23:20:44 <Flygon> Proportional Voting... 23:20:57 <Flygon> That... sorta kinda exists here for certain elections 23:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and no two voting systems are ever the same 23:21:09 <Flygon> They're a massive controversy due to how manipulable they have become 23:21:36 <Flygon> It's really not easy to get into the nitty gritty without explaining how the electoral system works here in-depth x: 23:22:11 <Flygon> But... yeah 23:22:14 <Flygon> <Eddi|zuHause> so if in the first round of voting, nobody has 50%, then two weeks later an election will be held between the two candidates with the most votes 23:22:21 <Flygon> That's not really very democratic... 23:22:27 <Flygon> It's a statistics failure :( 23:22:48 <Flygon> Given the strong likelyhood that, in such a scenario, somone coming in 3rd or 4th place, with preferences, could actually come out #1 23:22:57 <Flygon> As has occoured localy 23:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly 23:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but as most countries are used to two-party systems, that's rarely an issue 23:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you'll never know... 23:23:53 <Flygon> Just because you're used to it, doesn't mean it's good for you :( 23:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but look at the elections in france... there's a regional spike in a 3rd (extreme right wing) party, and in the runoff election everybody is like "oh fuck, we need to keep these guys out" 23:26:25 <Eddi|zuHause> which result in some crazy left-right broad coalitions for voting for the other candidate 23:28:48 <Flygon> It's pretty difficult for the extreme Right to get a foothold here 23:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's much easier in proportional systems 23:30:01 <Flygon> Strangely, the effect I HAVE noticed 23:30:14 <Flygon> Is that the Left can get an easier foothold 23:31:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably going to swap if you have a refugee crisis :p 23:32:20 <Flygon> Uuuuhm... 23:32:23 <Flygon> Oh man... 23:32:29 <Flygon> Australian Politics and Refugees 23:32:35 <Flygon> I really REALLY don't want to get into that 23:32:54 <Flygon> Mainly because the UN's declared that we've been violating human rights with our detention centres 23:32:59 <Flygon> The child rape stuff doesn't help 23:33:25 <Flygon> And yet we have European parties claiming this's the greatest thing since sliced bread 23:33:30 * Flygon puts his head in his hands 23:33:33 <Flygon> I'm fucking ashamed. 23:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but you haven't had a million refugees in a year 23:33:51 <Flygon> That's the thing 23:34:02 <Flygon> Given our geography, and the demographics coming through to here 23:34:12 <Flygon> We can more than reliably handle any incoming flow 23:34:43 <Flygon> Particulary since that, bar going by boat (which tends to deter all but the most incredibly desperate), the only way to come in is by Airplane. 23:35:08 <Flygon> But the major parties here have latched onto the issue in an attempt to grab votes from Sydneysiders 23:35:16 <Flygon> And I do mean Sydneysiders specifically 23:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there'll always be the "but WE were here FIRST" and the "but THEY are all CRIMINALS" camps 23:35:29 <Flygon> Technically the Aboriginals were here first. 23:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. but they don't count. 23:35:49 <Flygon> But I can see why the "but THEY are all CRIMINALS" camp would ignore that fact xP 23:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but look at the US, with all the white people being afraid of mexican immigrants 23:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the same exact two arguments 23:37:14 <Flygon> Ehh 23:37:21 <Flygon> Humans are scared of what's foriegn =/ 23:37:41 * Flygon rubs forehead 23:37:51 <Flygon> The Sydneysiders would freak out if they went on my trainline 23:38:08 <Flygon> I'm on the only portion of it that ISN'T predominantly Black, Asian, Middle-Eastern, or all of the above xP 23:48:02 *** Derya [~ircap@189.90.42.149.jupiter.com.br] has joined #openttd 23:48:03 <Derya> hi 23:48:23 <Flygon> Yooo! 23:48:49 <Derya> yep 23:48:51 <Derya> how r u Flygon 23:49:05 <Flygon> Ehh 23:49:14 *** Derya [~ircap@189.90.42.149.jupiter.com.br] has quit [Killed (MoranServ (Possible spambot -- mail support@oftc.net with questions.))] 23:49:15 <Flygon> I'm not privy on the current operations of Russia 23:49:27 <Flygon> Well, fug 23:50:12 *** Derya [~ircap@189.90.42.149.jupiter.com.br] has joined #openttd 23:50:15 <Derya> someone kicked me 23:50:36 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 23:52:13 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 23:52:59 *** Derya 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