Log for #openttd on 18th February 2016:
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00:04:55  <_dp_> tutorial does it with GSViewport.ScrollTo and ofc it can't be used in multiplayer
00:10:55  <_dp_> considering making a patch to add smth like GSViewport.ScrollCompanyTo
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00:14:41  <supermop> yellow path signals has the (side?) effect of causing trains to crawl at 40kmh in the block before a station stop
00:14:57  <supermop> even if that block is miles of single track
00:21:29  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: you can't scroll a company's view, as there may be multiple people in the same company
00:22:17  <_dp_> why not scroll them all?
00:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: yes, i meant to make a post about my thoughts on that patch, but i think i got distracted
00:22:51  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: no, scrolling is a client thing, not a company thing
00:23:04  <supermop> i guess i'd like a 3 aspect signal  that doesn't look so far ahead, but in this case that wouldn't help
00:23:50  <supermop> i guess you'd need a non-path path signal, that says "try not to wait here, but slow down if i am yellow"
00:23:56  <_dp_> so what? scroll all clients that are in said company
00:24:07  <_dp_> ofc will need to add network command for that to work
00:24:11  <supermop> or some other means of signalling single track effectively
00:24:24  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: if you want to do that, you can just loop over all clients in the company
00:24:51  <_dp_> it doesn't really matter for my case actually
00:25:06  <_dp_> I just couldn't think of any gs function that works with clients
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00:31:00  <_dp_> all gs api revolves around companies, can't see any client at all
00:33:09  <supermop> this also discourages 'nicer' station throats, as a pair of switches taking up 3 tiles vs an X taking up 1 leads to much longer at 40kmh
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00:46:36  <supermop> for now i'm going to change single yellow speed to 80kmh
00:47:01  <supermop> i trust the instant brakes of my ottd trains
00:47:39  <_dp_> I didn't get those yellow signals at all. It's train deceleration that's broken, not signals.
00:48:17  <_dp_> may be somewhat helpful in few cases but superfluous in all other
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00:52:30  <_dp_> well, signals aren't very realistic either, but that's part of game design
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01:11:52  <supermop> well the extra lights look pretty
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01:42:19  <Eddi|zuHause> have you ever read through old forum topics, and thought "hey, that sounds like something i would write", and then you look over and see "hey, i DID write that"
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01:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i have put down my thoughts here if you want to have a look
01:47:39  <supermop> sounds good
01:48:18  <supermop> i guess it requires his SPAD model for decelleration as well?
01:48:33  <supermop> or a choice of deceleration models?
01:48:43  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
01:49:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the braking distance would just be used as an estimation, an emergency brake would still get the train to stop faster
01:51:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i think SPAD is taking the simulation too far, i would not play with that
01:53:22  <supermop> it would be fun now and then
01:54:13  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it would not.
01:54:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i would disable train crashes completely, if i could.
01:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> turn crashes into breakdowns. keep the effect on ratings
02:08:20  <supermop> yeah, every crash being a total write-off is frustrating
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08:55:54  <Wolf01> o/
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13:34:08  <argoneus> good morning
13:34:09  <argoneus> train friends
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17:02:32  <qwebirc26667> i just accidently started an ascii verison of openttd in a ssh'd terminal, does anyone know how to exit it? it's vim all over again :P
17:05:18  <Alberth> accii version of openttd?
17:06:03  <Alberth> just ^C will work  if you started it from the command line
17:06:39  <Alberth> another option is to suspend the job, and then kill it
17:07:03  <Alberth> a third option is to log in again with another terminal and kill the process from there
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17:11:37  <qwebirc26667> had to kill it from a 2nd terminal, cheers
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17:14:49  <andythenorth> o/
17:14:53  <andythenorth> African Horse
17:15:57  <Alberth> steamy?
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17:21:25  <andythenorth> needs a roster name
17:27:31  <Alberth> Steam Toys :p
17:28:27  <Alberth> s/:FIRS/:EVERYTHING/   ?
17:29:07  <Alberth> Desert country
17:29:32  <Alberth> Mineral country
17:31:19  <Alberth> /me confuses economies with rosters :(
17:32:08  <andythenorth> ha :)
17:32:10  <andythenorth>
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17:49:23  <Alberth> hoi
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17:53:58  <frosch123> lo
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18:02:06  * andythenorth biab
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18:45:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27509 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2016-02-18 19:45:36 +0100 )
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> frisian: 60 changes by BAJansen
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19:10:57  <Wolf01> do trains in US travel both sides on double tracks as they want? I'm watching a video and the train is one time on the left track, one time in the right track... one time there are 2 trains going in the same direction in both tracks
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19:17:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about america, but in germany that is possible if the track/signalling is specifically prepared for it
19:18:56  <frosch123> doesn't it also depend on speed and distance between the tracks?
19:20:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
19:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that may influence whether trains may meet in a tunnel
19:20:28  <frosch123> vehicles cannot drive fast too close to each other
19:20:47  <frosch123> the air movement pulls them close to each other
19:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but that also applies to trains going in different direction
19:21:15  <frosch123> as far as i know that pulls them away from each other
19:21:16  <Eddi|zuHause> probably even more so, as the relative speed difference counts
19:22:19  <V453000> trains suck, everybody hates trains anyway
19:22:27  <V453000> ships is where stuff is at
19:28:00  <andythenorth> not
19:31:32  <V453000> sup andy, wat new
19:32:54  <andythenorth> inventing horse
19:32:56  <andythenorth> new roster
19:33:00  <V453000> xd
19:33:04  <V453000> nice
19:33:06  <V453000> tranez
19:33:56  <andythenorth> Wolf01: lots of US track is signalled bi-directional
19:34:03  <andythenorth> or not signalled at all, but uses centralised control / warrants / track authority
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19:34:36  <andythenorth> or the video might be showing you passing loops
19:34:41  <V453000> andythenorth: what new horse ideas?
19:34:56  <andythenorth> no gameplay ideas, just Africa-ish trains
19:35:00  <andythenorth> to go with Africa-ish FIRS
19:35:23  <V453000> =[
19:40:06  <V453000>  /me would prefer gameplay ideas over negro technologyez :P
19:42:17  <andythenorth> don’t have any
19:42:18  <andythenorth> just trains
19:48:37  <Rubidium> Wolf01: in the Netherlands it's technically possible on almost all but a few sections of track to drive against the standard driving direction, although it usually only happens in rare cases that they run against the default direction
19:49:06  <Rubidium> what I have seen, on a section with 5 tracks next to eachother that 3 trains were driving in the same direction almost next to eachother
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19:54:12  <Rubidium> in any case all double track routes in the Netherlands are effectively too busy to even allow driving the "wrong" way for a significant distance
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20:00:41  <argoneus> can anyone here into economics?
20:00:46  <argoneus> probably not very related to trains
20:01:00  <argoneus> I'm wondering how fiat money like gbp or dollar initially got their value
20:01:07  <argoneus> seems like I have to get a degree just to understand this
20:02:54  <frosch123> how did bread initially get a price?
20:05:18  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: the value, of course, got taken out of thin air. the tricky part is making other people believe it has that value
20:05:55  <argoneus> I just find it hard to believe that people went
20:06:07  <argoneus> "well we have this british pound and you can buy more for it than with 1 dollar"
20:06:11  <argoneus> and americans just went "ok nice"
20:06:19  <argoneus> frosch123: I have no idea
20:06:25  <argoneus> haggling probably
20:06:35  <argoneus> whoever was selling it gave it a value
20:07:26  <ckraniak> I believe the general idea is that the availability of currency X sets its value
20:07:44  <ckraniak> But I'm not an economist
20:08:03  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: if you mean historically, the value of a coin was mostly driven by its silver/gold content
20:08:09  <frosch123> argoneus: isn't it weird that water costs about 2€ per m³ in europe, while it is way more expensive in israel?
20:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause> if you made a bigger or purer coin, it was worth more
20:08:22  <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: yeah that's true
20:08:23  <frosch123> why don't you just buy water in europe and sell it in israel?
20:08:26  <argoneus> there's no gold standard anymore
20:08:40  <argoneus> frosch123: don't people do that though?
20:08:48  <argoneus> exporting stuff they already produce just to buy it cheaper from foreign countries
20:08:52  <argoneus> and make a profit
20:09:04  <frosch123> yeah, but what do you do with all she shekels?
20:09:17  <frosch123> can you buy water here for shekels?
20:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: if you mean more modern, there were some conferences about "this is the exchange rate that we want, we're tweaking wheels here or there to keep it that way"
20:09:30  <argoneus> oh, like that
20:10:49  <argoneus> frosch123: if you exchange them back
20:10:52  <argoneus> you can still make a profit though
20:10:56  <argoneus> or a loss
20:11:00  <argoneus> you never break even
20:11:07  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: for example the swiss national bank had an expensive program to keep the EUR:SFR rate within certain limits
20:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: they cancelled that suddenly about a year ago, which made the rate immediately explode
20:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: in modern times, exchange rates are mostly defined by more people buying or selling
20:13:25  <andythenorth> ha ha
20:13:26  <andythenorth> money
20:14:01  <andythenorth> one of the most awesome collective delusions
20:14:10  <andythenorth> and it works too
20:14:15  <argoneus> how does something like bitcoins get its value then?
20:14:23  <argoneus> one day you can barelly buy a pizza with it
20:14:28  <argoneus> and suddenly you can buy a car
20:14:32  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: by people buying or selling them.
20:14:46  <argoneus> so if demand for bitcoins spikes
20:14:49  <argoneus> then their price spikes too?
20:15:01  <andythenorth> notionally a bitcoin was supposed to be worth at least the computing cost of mining it
20:15:04  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: whenever there is viral news about bitcoin, the price goes through the roof because loads of people buy it
20:15:13  <argoneus> ..hold on
20:15:17  <argoneus> so if I was some super rich oil sheikh
20:15:25  <argoneus> what stops me from buying tons of bitcoins at X value
20:15:29  <argoneus> and when it spikes sell them for X+Y
20:15:31  <argoneus> ?
20:15:37  <argoneus> like, create my own demand
20:15:49  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing? that's how you get insanely rich or insanely poor at the stock market
20:16:08  <argoneus> oh, right
20:16:12  <argoneus> it's this thing called investing
20:16:12  <andythenorth> that’s how it works
20:16:23  <frosch123> no, it's called speculation
20:16:40  <frosch123> investment is, if you think it makes money on its own
20:16:51  <argoneus> isn't speculation a bit different?
20:16:53  <frosch123> speculation is, if you think you can sell it later for a better price
20:16:55  <argoneus> I buy some stocks expecting them to spike
20:17:05  <argoneus> I don't make them spike myself by creating absurd demand from day to day
20:17:19  <argoneus> or do I still have it wrong
20:17:21  <Eddi|zuHause> no, investment is if you buy stocks expecting them to naturally grow
20:17:36  <Eddi|zuHause> speculation is when you buy stocks expecting them to fluctuate
20:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> argoneus: at usual stock markets, there are measures in place to prevent hugely spiking values to be taken off trades
20:18:25  <Eddi|zuHause> errr
20:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause> too many negatives
20:18:53  <andythenorth> what is speculative investment?
20:18:56  <andythenorth> o_O
20:20:32  <Eddi|zuHause> the key difference is that the investment part gets pumped back into "the economy", whereas the speculative part is purely circulating within this stock bubble
20:21:49  <argoneus> this is too complex for me
20:22:16  <Eddi|zuHause> there was this stock market in chicago for agriculture goods
20:22:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and at some point they split apart the trading between people who were actually trying to buy cargo, and the people who just wanted to speculate
20:22:57  <Eddi|zuHause> and the speculating part was orders of magnitude higher volume
20:23:04  <argoneus> lol
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20:25:59  <andythenorth> pork belly futures
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21:37:01  <supermop> board of trade
21:37:22  <supermop> it's a commodities market
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22:42:30  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:47:35  <drac_boy> hi
23:49:48  <drac_boy> got a bit unusual question for you ... even although it wouldn't do much difference to a grf locomotive I'm still curious if blowing nitrogen dioxide instead of oxygen into a firebox would even result in any noticeable difference or not much?
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