Log for #openttd on 19th February 2016:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:23  <sim-al2> I think that would just displace oxygen, without doing much else
00:05:06  <drac_boy> thanks, and how're you doing anyhow?
00:05:20  <sim-al2> I'm good
00:06:24  <sim-al2> Nitrogen dioxide is really nasty btw, it does a lot of damage to the lungs even in low doses
00:07:31  <drac_boy> heh well the real reason i asked was because of using off-gassing from one source to power another (or in this case 'another' being firebox atmosphere) but probably pointless at this viewpoint now :)
00:08:40  <drac_boy> <is doing ok after a long week earlier on, hoping to work on some more papers and the so from tonight to the weekend
00:11:42  <sim-al2> Now nitrous oxide is the stuff used in racing, and it does help deliver some more oxygen during combustion, but production is much less than the nitrogen oxides resulting from internal combustion
00:16:35  <drac_boy> at least in theory (I think, I'm no skilled into this) a stationary large turbine could probably easily auger a small 'secondary' steam turbine what with the exhaust's temperature being a water-heating exchange source
00:21:33  <sim-al2> I think systems like that are already in used in some large power plants and ships
00:22:01  <drac_boy> wouldn't surprise me then in that case
00:22:39  <sim-al2> There certainly were a number of aircraft pistion engines with power-recovery turbines, which recovered energy from the exhaust flow and returned it directly to the crankshaft
00:23:17  <drac_boy> oh btw while we're on turbines, what do you think of this thing at first look? :)
00:23:31  <sim-al2> It helped increase the fuel efficency of faster, higher-flying pressurized piston-liners, at the expense of mechanical complexity
00:23:49  <sim-al2> Mmm, steam turbine
00:23:50  <drac_boy> didn't think of it being on planes but I can see why they actually tried it tho
00:24:24  <sim-al2> Direct-drive turbine too, unfortunatly leads to rather low slow-speed efficency
00:24:27  <drac_boy> mind you "expense of mechanical complexity" actually sometimes sums up the very small number of 3-cylinder locomotives in usa, mechanics somewhat hated the center cranks/etc
00:24:47  <drac_boy> at least a few of these not surprisingly led a rather good life of 10+ years of express/freight services
00:24:51  <Supercheese> hot dang that coupling rod is enormous
00:26:05  <drac_boy> one particular small fleet built by alco as I recall...when the emd F units replaced them on mainline they found a nice new home for a while working hump yards with switcher footboards fitted (they slipped less at low speed shoving the long cuts over for one thing)
00:26:15  <sim-al2> The problem with the aircraft engines was that turbines required far less inspection, and so once the more efficent turbo-fans arrived, all piston liners and even the turboprops were doomed
00:26:28  <sim-al2> *turbine engine
00:26:57  <drac_boy> and sim-a12 you're right about low efficency .. where a big ship can have multi-speed turbines aboard, a locomotive only has space for one or two turbine gears so it was always a "big compromise" all the time
00:27:10  <drac_boy> the prr S2 in that case was geared to whip 100mph express trains
00:27:50  <sim-al2> I think it had light-weight rods though
00:29:14  <drac_boy> I imagine the S2 never got bumped down to local trains due to questionable fuel consumptions ... compared to the T1 (a conventional duplex-drive layout) which was supposed to be built only for express trains but only a short time later got knocked down to slow local trains which didn't help its eventual full scrappages
00:29:51  <sim-al2> Local trains would never get something so nice, I'm sure the PRR had clapped out 4-6-0s for that until the end
00:30:31  <drac_boy> sim-a12 the funny thing is that a lot of the local trains on PRR were often happy with diesel-bumped K* units which made more sense for the light consist weight at low speeds
00:30:57  <sim-al2> Oh, older pacific makes sense too
00:31:07  <drac_boy> I know some photos that shows a K4 with just 1 to 3 heavyweight coaches on its tail and with the 40mph or so speed the fireman never really noticed much work
00:32:37  <drac_boy> in my opinion the K4 was a rather good example of "just design it for best efficency and forget silly bells and whistles!" line of thinking
00:32:51  <sim-al2> I suppose the PRR could get away with that because the big city commuter trains were mostly electrified
00:33:43  <drac_boy> one funny little tidbit related to that..when france ordered some of their early mallet locomotives they actually bought it from usa instead as to avoid the usual french way of always wanting to complicate things with strange contracptions
00:33:44  <sim-al2> I like that this:     and this:    are part of the same class
00:34:38  <sim-al2> Oh wow:
00:38:46  <Supercheese> Progress :)
00:38:57  <sim-al2> The American answer to the Crocidiles of Europe:
00:39:11  <drac_boy> sim-a12 another thing PRR somewhat made 'famous' with was the high-wheeling E6's .. once again it was just a simple straight 4-4-2 layout but heh .. they sure could move a bunch of coaches really fast
00:39:40  <drac_boy> naturally the K4 replaced them due to terrain and/or even-heavier (double E6's was a bit expensive naturally) trains
00:40:56  <drac_boy> doesn't help that a single E6 made itself famous for running too fast with a special consist :)
00:41:14  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
00:41:24  *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@] has joined #openttd
00:41:42  <drac_boy> heh that L5 somewhat looks a bit funny .. but probably can see why it was built :)
00:45:08  <drac_boy> of course uk did have their own atlantics too, only in a few instances they were a bit less sure-footed on hilly routes that was then worked by 3-axle powers instead
00:47:11  *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:54:02  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
01:13:19  <supermop> i guess i should 'blind' my path signals with block signals just ahead of junctions where i dont want a conflicting move to be reserved way in advance
01:20:27  <drac_boy> :)
01:29:02  <drac_boy> anyway going upstairs soon so you two have fun tonight one way or another :)
01:29:11  <drac_boy> oh and you too mr.bigcheese heh ;)
01:29:13  *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@] has left #openttd []
01:29:39  *** Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910:260:6eff:fe42:7728] has joined #openttd
01:33:45  *** Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
01:40:30  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
02:10:13  *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:11:07  *** DDR [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:30:37  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- Now with extra fish!]
03:31:14  *** Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910:260:6eff:fe42:7728] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:33:13  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:33:28  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
03:39:06  <Flygon> Oh wow
03:39:12  <Flygon> Those K4 photos from sim-al2
03:39:23  <Flygon> I gotta rummage some old VR (Victoria) photos
03:39:48  <Flygon> Basically, there was an A2-class series locomotive, originating from the late 1890s, and lasted 60-70 years...
03:39:59  <Flygon> They were virtually unrecognizable by retirement
03:40:08  <Flygon> They got the shit upgraded out of them
03:42:53  <Flygon> As built (around 1900 something)
03:43:01  <Flygon> By retirement
03:43:15  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
03:43:16  <Flygon> It even LOOKS remarkably more modern, despite being classed as the same loco type :D
03:43:53  <Flygon> wba sim-al2
03:44:23  <sim-al2> hi
03:45:25  <sim-al2> Yeah, they started streamlining everything, but it's much harder to maintain a locomotive with all that stuff to remove and put back every time
03:46:13  * Flygon nod
03:46:31  <Flygon> Was comparing a loco we designed and built in the 1890s (Victoria, Australia), and what it ended up as by the 1960s
03:46:36  <Flygon> <Flygon> As built (around 1900 something)
03:46:36  <Flygon> <Flygon> By retirement
03:47:06  <sim-al2> Wow those are some big smoke deflectors
03:47:44  <Flygon> I promise we weren't compensating for something
03:47:50  <Flygon> We had the H-Class to do that for us
03:48:24  <sim-al2> Cylinders are rather different too
03:48:28  <Flygon> Yepyep
03:48:35  <Flygon> It's amazing how much a single machine can evolve
03:48:51  <sim-al2> So these are different batches, correct?
03:49:02  <Flygon> I mean, they're clearly not the exact same loco (diff numbers), but they would've gone through the same upgrades
03:49:17  <Flygon> iirc, most of the A2s were built from the 1890s to around 1910
03:49:43  <Flygon> And then got whacked on upgrades that worked on newer locomotives
03:49:58  <sim-al2> Ah ok, I know there's been a few cases where designs are in production so long that the newer ones replace/displace the older ones
03:50:05  * Flygon nod
03:50:36  <Flygon> Yeah, here, I think the idea was "Make a new design based off an old design, and also pass on the upgrades that worked on the new design to the old design
03:51:17  <Flygon> Though, we did have a few long runners that kept being manufactured for so long as to actually have different designs depending on the year
03:51:40  <Flygon> The K-Class, specifically, comes to mind (though, older ones got upgraded to the same spec)
03:52:28  <Flygon> Perhaps unsurprisingly, they looked almost exactly like the A2 by the end of their own run
03:53:19  <sim-al2> wow, talk about convergant designs
03:55:37  <sim-al2> I'm detecting a pattern here... :
03:55:59  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
03:56:23  *** Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
03:58:12  <Flygon> Hahaha, yes :D
03:58:14  <Flygon> In fact
03:58:20  <Flygon> The J-Class is basically a K-Class
03:58:28  <Flygon> But gauge convertable... and with a few other minor upgrades
03:58:37  <Flygon> The VR were very very conservative designers
03:58:40  <sim-al2> Oh, that explains a lot
03:59:01  <sim-al2> Those smoke deflectors look very European though
03:59:06  <Flygon> Their most non-conservative designs that come to mind would be the S-Class and the H-Class
03:59:16  <Flygon> Yeah, we stole the idea from the Germans
03:59:28  <Flygon> No other Australian railway (apart from SAR... long story there)
03:59:35  <Flygon> Er, no other Aussie railway really used them
04:00:05  <Flygon> New South Welsh stuff always looked distinctly more British. VR took more insight from the Germans and Americans.
04:00:52  <sim-al2> It seems most American locomotives lacked them, apart from experiments, but many continental Europe types, especailly anything that might ever haul passengers had them
04:02:45  * Flygon nd
04:02:47  <Flygon> nod*
04:02:51  <Flygon> Please excuse the minor delays
04:02:57  <Flygon> Was making lunch x.x
04:03:35  <sim-al2> It looks like the S-class lacked them, at least in the wikipedia pictures
04:03:55  <Flygon>,_November_17,_1937.jpg I suspect the German influence leaked into how Dieselpunky the S-Class Streamliner is xP
04:04:12  <sim-al2> Yeah no kidding
04:04:21  <Flygon> Uuh, naked S-Class. I forgot if the shell-less S-Class had deflectors
04:04:43  <Flygon> Odd
04:04:50  <Flygon> Yeah, you're right. They didn't have smoke deflectors
04:05:31  <Flygon> They must've relied on the Streamliner setup to do all the work. They never ran without the shell unless they did freight (obviously, not a good task for a fast express loco... but, erm. Certain difficulties happened in the 40s x.x)
04:05:49  <sim-al2> I can't but notice how the recycling of the class names seems sometimes natural, and sometimes very odd
04:06:06  <Flygon> Hahaha, oh man
04:06:08  <Flygon> I understand
04:06:18  <Flygon> It's annoying, too, when some were recycled very close to eachother
04:06:26  <Flygon> Or they recycled the same TYPE of loco
04:06:35  <sim-al2> H-class vs H-class, lol
04:06:48  <Flygon> (eg. R-Class Steam Loco becomes... R-Class Steam Loco. Instead of H Steam to H Diesel)
04:06:52  <Flygon> Heheh...
04:07:03  <Flygon> The H-Class Diesel is just a T but with more weight
04:07:09  <Flygon> Only really suppose to shunt
04:07:32  <Flygon> Heh... the T-Class locomotive, itself, is just a ridiculously long runner
04:07:34  <sim-al2> Yeah, I guess it reallys stands for "Heavy", but the S-class diesel was used on the same trains as the steamer...
04:07:53  <Flygon> They've been running for almost 65 years, continuously... and have the redesigns to suit
04:08:03  <Flygon> The S-Class Diesel is... a bit of a fiasco
04:08:12  <Flygon> They're neat, but they're really underpowered
04:08:20  <Flygon> And lack the top speed...
04:08:35  <Flygon> And the fact that their introduction 100% killed off ALL the S-Class Steamers left a lot of people bitter
04:08:43  <sim-al2> 1957 though, there wasn't a lot of options for more power
04:08:51  <Flygon> (yes, the steamers got scrapped. It's a miracle we kept the sole H-Class)
04:09:37  <Flygon> Well, the issue is more... they didn't really leave much room for adding additional power without breaking the 'intended' streamliner setup
04:09:39  <Flygon> No slug units
04:09:41  <sim-al2> The SD24 with 2400hp wasn't introduced until mid-1958
04:10:28  <sim-al2> I really like the B-class for whatever reason, it looks very nice
04:10:28  <Flygon> This isn't to say the S-Class and derivatives (the B, A, and X come to mind. The A still in active usage by V/Line, VR's successor) haven't had a fantastic service life
04:10:33  <Flygon> They're just... not as spectacular
04:11:06  <sim-al2> Isn't the last A in VR service just a standby now? The N's seem to have replaced them completely
04:11:18  <sim-al2> SD24 for reference:
04:11:45  <Flygon> Well
04:11:54  <Flygon> They're technically 'just' standby
04:11:55  <sim-al2> The early T-class is basically a standard EMD G8 export, the later ones however are very different...
04:12:05  <Flygon> The reality is, V/Line is so ridiculously stretched for resouces
04:12:25  <Flygon> That A66 has had more retirements than George Jetson
04:12:39  <sim-al2> Oh yeah, V/Lines passenger coaches seem very... haphazard
04:12:54  <Flygon> Some of their most recent work has involved towing VLocity DMUs due to the recent wheel wear and LX issues... which're...
04:12:59  <Flygon> Complicated issues.
04:13:18  <Flygon> In part because suspected corruption by Metro (a separate rail operator)
04:14:56  <Flygon> Heavy Harry (aka. the H-Class Steamer), btw. One of the few vehicles you MUST call a him xP
04:15:45  <Flygon> They... had a fun time fitting it into the loading gauge. And it was around 24 tonnes an axle, iirc. Which in the 1930s, was... erm, a very tough ask for a lot of VR's lines.
04:16:40  <sim-al2> Heck, the Europeans today often don't allow 24 tonne axle weights
04:16:42  <Flygon> Still, it was Australia's most powerful (non-articulated) loco til 1995 :D
04:17:30  <Flygon> Yeah, a lot of lines here still don't handle over 21 tonnes regulary
04:17:54  <sim-al2> Didn't Connex get kicked off the suburban lines for having a lot of internal problems?
04:17:54  <Flygon> I suspect you could get away with running Harry for the occassional tour, tho. If anyone had the $$$ to get him working
04:18:09  <Flygon> I just want him to get running so him and a VLocity can have a race :D:D
04:18:17  <Flygon> Connex... oh man
04:18:25  <Flygon> The French company so abysmal, even the French hate them
04:18:55  <Flygon> Yeah, Connex were just... bad
04:18:59  <sim-al2> lol that's a great sign :D
04:19:06  <Flygon> But their replacement (Metro), is just... well
04:19:10  <Flygon> Lemme dig up a few reports
04:19:20  <Flygon> But they're LONG reads, so best save them for future reading
04:19:57  <Flygon>
04:20:03  <Flygon>
04:20:10  <Flygon>
04:20:33  <Flygon> This is, to use the most eloquent language I can use to describe how incredibly stupid/bad this situation is with Metro atm
04:20:36  <Flygon> A complete shitstorm
04:21:14  <Flygon> The articles show quite clearly what can happen when railway corruption and greed take priority over basic safety
04:21:21  <Flygon> It's a miracle we haven't had a Granville yet
04:21:37  <sim-al2> >This may result in shorter trains
04:21:37  <sim-al2> (eg, 3 car v’locity) not being detected.
04:21:42  <Flygon> aka. the reason Sydney has the country's best suburban network
04:21:43  <sim-al2> !!!!!!
04:22:29  <Flygon> Metro's maintainence on LX equipment is baaad
04:22:41  <Flygon> A fair chunk dates back to the 50s-70s
04:22:59  <Flygon> A lot of other rail equipment (including LX, probably) dates back to the 1930s
04:23:17  <Flygon> Until recently, we also had a fair few pre-1900s mechanical interlocks being used, too
04:23:56  <Flygon> It sounds like a joke from The Simpsons...
04:24:00  <Flygon> But it's all too real
04:24:22  <sim-al2> So the operating company is also responsible for maintenance? I thought the tracks would be state-owned too
04:25:03  <Flygon> They are
04:25:08  <Flygon> Maintainence has also been leased out
04:25:19  <Flygon> The idea is that we don't have to pay for track they're using
04:25:27  <Flygon> The reality is that they're letting the track turn to shit
04:25:56  <Flygon> We've come a long way down since the 20s-40s VR glory days
04:26:05  <sim-al2> I mean, those statements are really alarming. Not being able to detect a three-car train is ludicrious
04:26:08  <Flygon> (even if the 40s meant VR stock was getting the hell flogged out of it...)
04:26:17  <Flygon> Aye :(
04:27:35  <Flygon> (tho, 40s war freight did also mean that Heavy Harry pulled ludicriously heavy amounts of freight, in part, because the workers wanted to see just WHAT it could do. IIRC, it hauled around 3x it's intended maximum tonnage without really sweating a bit... I'd need to grab the actual numbers, though)
04:28:47  <sim-al2> TBH, I don't really understand the big move towards operating companies. We have some here too, where the transit agency still owns everything, but the equipment is operated by some company
04:29:31  <Flygon> Ehhh...
04:29:35  <Flygon> Here, at least
04:29:38  <Flygon> It's a political thing
04:29:51  <Flygon> IF something goes wrong, the Government blames the private company
04:29:57  <Flygon> And then doesn't fix the issue
04:30:22  <Flygon> Compared to, if, say, a Government owned company stuffs up
04:30:32  <Flygon> And the party suddenly risks losing the next election
04:30:34  <Flygon> That's the theory
04:30:40  <Flygon> In reality, the public isn't that stupid.
04:30:49  <sim-al2> The Melbourne system seems to be rather important to regional transport though, something going bad could have dire consequences
04:31:06  <Flygon> It would. Hence my references to Granville. :(
04:31:33  <Flygon> The VLocity wheel wear incidents have come close to causing an incident to happen @ over 150km/h...
04:31:48  <Flygon> But it's not V/Line I worry about, so much as Metro
04:32:02  <Flygon> V/Line at least give enough of a damn to pull over half their fleet out for the sake of safety
04:32:24  <Flygon> Metro keeps having derailments and what must be the divine intervention of god preventing a head-on collision
04:32:48  <Flygon> Now, I'm not a religious man. But the fact we haven't had a head-on yet is statistically baffling/amazing.
04:34:03  <Flygon> But, yeah
04:34:22  <Flygon> We're heading to the same situation as the UK's current problems with franchising out rail
04:34:27  <Flygon> And, the kicker is?
04:34:47  <Flygon> It was cheaper to just pay a supposedly 'bloated' Gov't owned corporation to manage the railways
04:37:18  <Flygon> But, yeah
04:37:26  <Flygon> V/Line's own network maintainence is far better...
04:37:38  <Flygon> The wheel wear, is... a particular case, though
04:38:21  <Flygon> tl;dr: Sharp curves on new part of the network. Most trains no longer using Metro's network. V/Line's INCREDIBLY averse to using grease pots to alleviate sharp curve wear, and since the trains no longer pick up grease from Metro grease pots?...
04:41:28  <sim-al2> Hmm, why wouldn't they use lubricators?
04:41:39  <Flygon> $$$
04:41:50  <Flygon> V/Line's budget consists of empty air
04:42:11  <sim-al2> That seems rather backwards, considering how much wear will be inflicted over time
04:42:12  <Flygon> So their foremost concern is keeping the VLocity DMUs operating as well as possible
04:42:26  <Flygon> (they're some of the most complicated DMUs on Earth... and some of the most overpowered)
04:42:37  <sim-al2> Not to mention the noise
04:42:42  <Flygon> Well, the prevailing theory is that it's INTENTIONAL on the Government's behalf
04:42:52  <Flygon> So they can have an excuse to flog V/Line to Metro
04:43:05  <Flygon> A lot of the public suspects there's a lot of corruption and bribery going on
04:43:24  <sim-al2> Well, overpowered is relative, there's some out there that are more powerful, but that's because they are heavier and/or pull trailers
04:43:28  <Flygon> And not the 'good' sort of Japanese bribary >_>
04:44:08  <Flygon> Well, keeping in mind, the VLos are specced to accelerate @ 0.9m/s/s. And are likely written as 'weaker' than they can actually go, on even that respect
04:44:23  <Flygon> But, on paper alone, they actually accerate faster than a lot of suburban EMUs @_@
04:44:41  <Flygon> And, given some alleged tests have pegged them going 220-230km/h...
04:45:04  <sim-al2> Lots of the new European designs try for 1m/s^2, but yeah, most older designs would love to hit that
04:45:07  <Flygon> (the transmission, however, is only built for 200. And I can't fully confirm if the tests for post-200 did actually happen or not)
04:45:16  <Flygon> DMUs? Or in general?
04:45:24  <Flygon> I do ask, given EU is very very electrified
04:45:48  <sim-al2> Well, if it's actually rated for 200km/h, they'll probably do overspeed tests to ensure safety margin
04:46:14  <sim-al2> Here in the US, one of the testing requirements is running at 10% above top speed without any problems
04:46:31  <Flygon> Yep. That collorates well with the 220-230 speeds reported
04:46:38  <sim-al2> Que Dash 9s rolling around the Colorado test track at 90mph
04:46:54  <sim-al2> (supposedly)
04:46:58  <Flygon> (they, in service, only hit 160km/h officially. In reality, they are allowed to hit 177km/h)
04:47:21  <Flygon> Ooooh, that Dash 9
04:47:23  <sim-al2> Dat overspeed margin
04:47:38  <Flygon> If they could hit 90mph in service, they'd be pretty neat pax locos
04:48:09  <Flygon> Assuming the acceleration curve allows it
04:48:10  <sim-al2> Yeah, for whatever reason the Dash 9 is still 70mph rated, but the AC derivative is 75mph
04:48:45  <Flygon> Darn
04:48:50  <sim-al2> Yeah, Dash 9 is pretty damn heavy, the P40DC/P42DC are basically Dash 9's in a lighter body
04:49:09  <Flygon> Yeah, no V/Line pax locos are really designed to go over 115km/h. The A-Class are geared for 133km/h... but they don't hit that.
04:49:29  <sim-al2> Still heavy by say, Euro standards, but definetly nicer on the track than a heavy freight locomotive
04:49:33  <Flygon> (which, due to us FORMERLY using miles, unsurprisingly, 115km/h rounds very neatly to 70mph)
04:49:52  * Flygon nod
04:50:18  <Flygon> It seems a few Dash 9s run in Australia.
04:50:22  <Flygon> Must be for Interstate
04:50:32  <sim-al2> The one problem with acceleration rates is that it's pretty easy to hit a high rate at low speed
04:50:52  <sim-al2> Like, there subway cars in the 1910's capable of 2.5mph/s
04:51:15  <sim-al2> Nevermind that they can barely reach 50mph, thanks to a lack of weakfields
04:51:30  <Flygon> Ouch
04:51:43  <Flygon> Here... er, the history with EMU speeds is actually a bit confusing
04:51:46  <sim-al2> While the orginal Shinkansen, with all axles powered, was rated for like 1km/h/s
04:52:05  <Flygon> Officially, they were all rated for 115km/h with post-50s models
04:52:15  <sim-al2> (later 1.3, they seemed to have tuned it up during the 90's)
04:52:28  <Flygon> The reality is, most pre-50s sets only designed for 80 tended to blow up to 120km/h due to the lack of actual speed recorders
04:52:51  <Flygon> I... think. Take it with a grain of salt.
04:53:04  <Flygon> Yeah, the 0-Class Shinkansen accelerated very slowly
04:53:18  <Flygon> It's very very weird seeing the 0-Class Shinkansen
04:53:26  <Flygon> Back then, they were very state of the line
04:53:53  <Flygon> Nowadays, VLocities practically have all the same capabilities (Bar being a fair bit noiser). And they're seen as ordinary Interurbans.
04:54:13  <Flygon> And accelerate far faster...
04:54:22  <Flygon> It's hard to believe
04:55:10  <Flygon> It does feel kind of weird to me
04:55:17  <Flygon> Seeing how 'slow' overseas urban EMUs are
04:55:33  <Flygon> For us, 115km/h on a suburban train is a bit slow. We're used to going 160km/h on Diesels :D
04:55:47  <Flygon> But... your networks evolved differently.
04:55:49  <sim-al2> Most of the time, the "slow" ones are used on lines where the stations are very close together
04:55:56  <Flygon> Namely, tighter stations spacing
04:56:00  <Flygon> Yeah, exactly
04:56:09  <Flygon> Whereas, for us, the 'subway' role is filled in by the Trams
04:56:20  <sim-al2> They NYC subway probably has very short station distances compared to even other subway systems
04:56:31  <Flygon> Which, if you compare various specifications... operate in almost the exact same way as- well, yeah, exactly
04:56:34  <Flygon> Like the NYC subway
04:57:21  <sim-al2> Trams used to be pretty common in the big cities around the 1900's, but either they were replaced with elevated or subway systems, or doomed to fade away
04:58:42  <sim-al2> Really, I think only Boston and Chicago followed the route of the heavy-duty tram systems found in Europe, and even then the Chicago systems became electric commuter railorads
04:59:25  <Flygon> Mmm
04:59:33  <sim-al2> The Boston Green Line seems the closest to what is done with the city trams in the German countries, it even has subway sections downtown
04:59:35  <Flygon> Yeah, Chicago developed a lot like Melbourne with regards to Trams
04:59:53  <Flygon> A LOT of Cablecar lines pre-1910s, even on flat land, because electric traction hadn't caught up
05:00:04  <Flygon> And ludicrously huge networks in the progress
05:00:12  <Flygon> Yeah, no Tramlines here are subway
05:00:20  <Flygon> It's all surface
05:00:28  <sim-al2>
05:00:55  <Flygon> O_O
05:00:59  <Flygon> IT LOOKS LIKE A Z-CLASS
05:01:38  <sim-al2> Oh hey, looks like Melborne stole the PCC too
05:01:53  <Flygon> An old one, and... old livery
05:01:56  <Flygon> But it shows the design
05:01:59  <Flygon> Well, not so much stole
05:02:03  <Flygon> As much as half-licenced
05:02:09  <Flygon> Then hybridized with a W-Class
05:02:10  <sim-al2> It's hilarious that the world's tram systems are built on the back of an American design
05:02:13  <Flygon> Then ran 115km/h with it
05:02:23  <Flygon> (allegedly)
05:02:40  <Flygon> (they did the test run somepoint in the 1950s because... well, they could)
05:02:46  <sim-al2> Well, the Czechs did literally build many without a license
05:02:59  <Flygon> Ahh *nodnod*
05:03:03  <Flygon> Ye olde Soviet Union...
05:03:22  <Flygon> Still, they invented 80s video game music in the 30s xP
05:03:42  <sim-al2> Of course, the streetcar systems in the US were pretty much toast by the 70's anyway, and I'm sure the companies didn't even notice the lack of Commie money
05:03:55  <Flygon> Not kidding, either
05:04:19  <sim-al2> 0.o
05:04:39  <Flygon> (they... it's complicated. This explains it)
05:04:53  <Flygon> Yeah, the dying out in the 50s-70s.... well, sucks
05:05:52  <Flygon> The similarity with 80s computer synths is rawly uncanny
05:06:01  <Flygon> Right down to the waveforms chosen
05:06:03  <sim-al2>
05:07:17  <sim-al2> Don't worry about the cars, my city stole a few W's back
05:07:32  <Flygon> Technically purchased xP
05:07:41  <sim-al2> Yeah yeah, details
05:08:06  <sim-al2> Too bad they managed to maintain one badly enough that it caught on fire...
05:08:23  <Flygon> A W?
05:08:24  <Flygon> Damn.
05:08:37  <sim-al2> So for like the last two years, no more trams downtown
05:08:39  <Flygon> What did they do, run it in the wrong notch setting for too long?
05:08:46  <Flygon> It has to be either 50%, or 100% power
05:08:53  <Flygon> Otherwise the resistors grow VERY hot
05:08:57  <Flygon> Dangerously so
05:09:02  <Supercheese> Flygon: Hot dang that's some retro-retro stuff
05:09:08  <Supercheese> proto-retro
05:09:08  <sim-al2> Only this past spring did they get the stupid fake trolley-buses to replace them
05:09:29  <Flygon> Supercheese: I know, right? It's a shame the Soviet Government of the time decided the programme was unprofitable
05:09:37  <sim-al2> I don't know, they were fine when I rode on them
05:09:47  <Flygon> The idea of a Communist Government scrapping a programme for being unprofitable is... amusing
05:10:21  <Flygon> sim-al2: Yeah, it's hard for me to tell without being there. And even then, I'm not a maintainence engineer.
05:10:37  <Flygon> But that's the only thing I can think of that could even cause a fire in ordinary operation
05:10:49  <Flygon> And even then, you'd need to be almost deliberately driving that way
05:11:02  <sim-al2> I don't know, somehow they could install pantographs and enough lights to make it look like a disco ball, but not maintain it
05:11:20  <sim-al2> No, I think it burned up while not in service
05:11:39  <Flygon> What? Jesus.
05:11:50  <Flygon> Sounds like they tried to do what we did her and fucked the wiring up :(
05:11:53  <Flygon> here*
05:12:01  <Flygon> (we installed panto and additional lighting, too)
05:12:15  <sim-al2> Oh nevermind, it was too different cars about 5 months apart
05:13:35  * Flygon nod
05:13:38  <Flygon> Still, very strange
05:14:13  <sim-al2> Oh god it's going to be FALL before the first five are finally refurbished
05:14:52  <Flygon> Supercheese: A few other waveforms got experimented with, too
05:15:03  <sim-al2> Wait, the webpage hasn't been updated in a year, now I'm confused...
05:15:10  <Flygon> Again, the uncanny resemblance with 80s computer music....
05:15:29  <sim-al2> My city's transit agency is of course, a very competent organization ... not...
05:15:43  <Flygon> sim: I understand fully :(
05:16:05  <Supercheese> so they have triangle & square waves... on paper. Cut out by hand. Hot damn
05:16:51  <Supercheese> They used analog to make digital
05:17:00  <Flygon> I don't think they specifically aimed for either. But they certainly got a very close waveform shape
05:19:08  <Flygon> Supercheese: This has some illustrations of what they fiddled with
05:19:33  <Flygon> Including a fair few waveforms that a computer can't actually intentionally generate
05:19:40  <Flygon> But can be played by an optical player
05:19:41  <sim-al2> Boston's tram subway is actually pretty old:
05:19:52  <Flygon> (of course, the waveforms can be represented electronically)
05:20:08  <Flygon> It does feak me out a bit how cramped US subways get x3
05:20:42  <sim-al2> Just old, built to reduce costs, the rolling stock isn't really that big
05:21:00  * Flygon no
05:21:03  <Flygon> nod*
05:21:17  <sim-al2> The Washington metro system has larger dimensions
05:22:11  <Flygon> Supercheese: The music in this is 100% artificial... this video is a pretty clear reminder that they were trying to make it sound 'organic', not computery... mainly because they, obviously, had no concept of 80s synthesizers xP
05:22:14  <sim-al2>
05:22:15  <Flygon> sim-al2: *nod*
05:22:27  <Flygon> Oooh
05:22:30  <Flygon> The one made in the 70s?
05:22:58  <sim-al2> yeah, I guess the concrete gives it away? :D
05:23:14  <Flygon> Jup :D
05:23:46  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
05:23:49  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
05:25:44  <Flygon> Supercheese: I do note, though. Some 1930s American synths, themselves, were amazingly advanced. And, in theory, could play self-tracking with a modified piano reel type.
05:25:50  <Flygon> As in, fully electronic ones.
05:29:08  <Flygon> Seriously, this thing
05:29:12  <Flygon> Sounds like it came from the 70s or 80s
05:29:15  <Flygon> Not the bloody 30s
05:29:57  <sim-al2> It's not pop music, therefore irrelevant?
05:30:10  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:30:24  <Flygon> Mm =/
05:30:44  <Flygon> The entire thing is basically... vacuum tubes upon programmable vacuum tubes
05:31:18  <Flygon> Everything else in the era used tonewheels, and other mechanical components (like those electronic church organs)
05:31:56  <Flygon> But, there you have it. The two biggest lost oppertunities in music synthesis @_@
05:44:31  <Flygon> It's a shame Novacords probably can't be built anew :(
05:49:09  <Flygon> sim-al2: Correction, btw. Seems the A2 came out in the 1900s, not the 1890s
05:49:30  <Flygon> The A2s, themselves, are an upgrade/update of the A's... made in the 1890s xP
05:58:41  <sim-al2> Well good night
06:07:20  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:52:56  *** roidal [] has joined #openttd
06:57:38  <Flygon> Damn, was gonna send sim-al2
06:57:53  <Flygon> You'll never guess what class was intended to replace the other xP
07:03:33  *** day [] has quit [Quit: off to save the cats]
07:53:42  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
08:12:15  *** efess [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:21:40  *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@] has joined #openttd
08:30:16  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
09:38:30  *** Rejf [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
09:39:09  *** Rejf [] has joined #openttd
10:04:24  *** efess [] has joined #openttd
10:12:54  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
10:13:13  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
10:13:16  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
10:14:49  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
10:20:19  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:36:25  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has joined #openttd
10:36:31  <andythenorth> o/
10:36:42  *** Defaultti [defaultti@] has quit [Quit: Quitting.]
10:37:30  *** Defaultti [] has joined #openttd
10:53:23  <andythenorth> is cat
10:56:58  *** Mazur [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:57:35  *** Mazur [] has joined #openttd
11:01:21  *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:c599:fd4d:349e:e66d] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:15:18  <V453000> how much cat
11:17:02  <andythenorth> about 28
11:17:08  <andythenorth> and a sub-cat
11:17:11  <andythenorth> underground
11:24:05  <V453000> nice enough
11:31:48  <V453000> I am making more and more details for my trains but none of them will be visible in openttd resolution :D
11:31:52  <andythenorth> ha
11:31:54  <V453000> might want to slow down there
11:31:59  <andythenorth> you will have to switch to trainz
11:32:08  <V453000> nah
11:32:18  <V453000> will just add fancy pictures to devzone wiki/stuff
11:32:24  <V453000> newgrf marketing XD
11:33:38  <andythenorth> splash screen :P
11:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i always wanted the ability to have a picture in the purchase window
12:21:13  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
12:21:29  <Wolf01> o/
12:31:37  *** Supercheese [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:32:07  *** Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
12:44:14  <argoneus> good morning train friends
12:53:09  <NGC3982> train morning good friends
12:53:34  <Wolf01> morning train friends good
12:54:42  <andythenorth> cats
12:55:04  <argoneus> suck
13:21:55  *** Quatroking [] has joined #openttd
13:22:21  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
13:26:13  *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
13:32:49  *** liq3 [] has quit []
13:46:06  *** Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
13:48:52  *** Valle [] has joined #openttd
13:48:57  *** alluke [] has joined #openttd
13:52:30  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:52:51  <Valle> Good afternoon everyone, I'm looking for help with setting up a multiplayer server. I have done this numerous times before but have run out of ideas what the issue could be. OS version: Mac OS X 10.11.3, OpenTTD Version: JGRpp 0.10.1, Router has port forwarding set to 3979 (as set in the openttd.cfg) to the local IP of my Mac, but my game, although advertised online, does not appear in the public server list. Does anyone have an idea what els
13:53:38  <Valle> Thanks in advance!
13:56:10  <_dp_> does it say "advertising on master server successful" in logs?
13:56:17  <_dp_> also check firewall
13:57:33  <Valle> firewall permission for openttd was granted
13:59:38  <Valle> I think I found the issue, thank you. I had forgotten about the NewGRF limit in multiplayer.
14:00:28  <Valle> Issue resolved, thanks.
14:01:05  *** alluke [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
14:02:47  *** nokarad [] has joined #openttd
14:05:01  *** nokarad [] has left #openttd []
14:07:53  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
14:23:03  *** nokarad [] has joined #openttd
14:23:07  *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:28:45  *** nokarad [] has quit [Quit: УхПжу я Пт вас (xchat 2.4.5 ОлО старше)]
14:41:19  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
14:41:22  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
14:45:41  <Wolf01> fuck the system... I'm too stupid to write games :|
15:01:17  <Alberth> :(
15:10:43  * andythenorth has written games
15:10:51  <andythenorth> what level of stupid are we talking? :P
15:11:21  <Wolf01> I can't use unity even with tutorials
15:12:11  <Wolf01> I simply don't get it
15:13:51  <Wolf01> I just don't want to reinvent the wheel with C#
15:14:36  <Wolf01> because it will take ages to do even a simple thing unity can already do
15:25:53  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
16:16:03  *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@] has joined #openttd
16:36:02  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:37:05  *** Mazur [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:41:17  *** Mazur [] has joined #openttd
16:48:27  *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:2440:55f5:f5b:f9fc] has joined #openttd
16:51:51  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
17:01:18  <Wolf01> bah trainz simulator is boring... it's sitting there downloading and caching stuff for 1 hour
17:03:29  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has left #openttd []
17:06:20  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
17:07:57  *** sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:23:52  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
17:30:38  *** Valle [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
17:39:36  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
17:39:41  <andythenorth> “Hot Narrow Horse"
17:39:46  <andythenorth> :P
17:43:11  <Alberth> :)
17:48:02  <andythenorth> mostly narrow gauge
17:49:04  <andythenorth> small trains
17:49:06  <andythenorth> like this one
17:49:54  <Wolf01> I already saw that in one grf long time ago
17:50:24  <Alberth> small trains? :)
17:54:44  *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@] has joined #openttd
17:58:17  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
17:58:20  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
18:00:29  *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:08:28  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
18:08:38  *** DexDeadly [] has joined #openttd
18:09:51  <DexDeadly> Hello, is there a guide for installing OpenTTD on a headless Linux Server 14.10LTS system to use as a dedicated server?
18:10:38  <Milek7> tmux new
18:10:41  <Milek7> openttd -D
18:10:54  <Milek7> what else you would want?
18:11:37  <glx> and probably manual build so it doesn't require X
18:11:44  <DexDeadly> I've never done so I was looking for a guide
18:21:09  <_dp_> well, it's not a rocket science, at least for me openttd --help was enough for a guide xD
18:23:05  <DexDeadly> ok than
18:30:22  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
18:45:23  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
18:45:44  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27510 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/frisian.txt (2016-02-19 19:45:35 +0100 )
18:45:45  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> frisian: 55 changes by BAJansen
18:47:48  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
18:51:53  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:54:05  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:01:52  <Wolf01> good, I was able to load the wagons and move them to a yard... it was cool to understand that there isn't a single station loading area but you have to go exactly on the right point to load stuff
19:03:44  <Wolf01> and the loading areas don't have a name, you must rely only on the switches... which can be far away from the exact point
19:22:28  *** sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
19:39:42  *** drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
19:39:48  <drac_boy> hi
19:40:26  <drac_boy> just curious about this but can you hide some buy window texts like the runcost or are these always set to show up all the times no matter what?
19:41:12  <frosch123> you can add more
19:41:16  <frosch123> you cannot remove stuff
19:43:40  <drac_boy> right, and the added things only can be inserted from the bottom part too - correct?
19:46:05  <frosch123> yes, it's just one text
19:46:16  <frosch123> which people make look like there would be multiple
19:49:35  <drac_boy> I thought that was the case there too, cheers anyhow :)
19:51:48  *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:04:15  * andythenorth plots trains
20:05:44  *** _johannes [] has joined #openttd
20:21:44  <drac_boy> what kind of trains or not sure? :)
20:21:49  <drac_boy> just asking after all heh
20:34:24  <Wolf01> meh... I can't couple the diesel engine, I don't get the part with the brakes, anyone with trainz simulator which can give me a hint?
20:40:56  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:46:23  <drac_boy> hmm say I'm not finding much within uk sources atm but any of you have any thought on if the uic classification B'2' would probably be right for a vehicle thats only powered at one instead of both trucks?
20:49:59  *** efess [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:54:53  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
20:55:10  *** ConductorCat [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:03:32  <andythenorth>
21:03:34  <andythenorth> yes
21:05:51  *** UukGoblin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:05:53  <drac_boy> heh hm thanks, wanted to put these steam railcars somewhere :)
21:06:00  <drac_boy> anyway going off for a bit now, be back later on tho
21:06:05  *** drac_boy [] has left #openttd []
21:07:16  <andythenorth> Wolf01: just make sure you’ve turned off 90º curves :P
21:08:00  <Wolf01> this contraption is complicated ~_~
21:08:17  <NGC3982>  < Milek7> what else you would want?
21:08:44  <NGC3982> Using OpenTTD as a dedicated linux server gives the opportunity to customise almost everything in the game.
21:08:48  <Wolf01> I managed to couple the wagons with "patience", but going downhill with dinamyc brake is suicide
21:08:54  <NGC3982> So yes, we want a lot more that -D.
21:12:30  <DexDeadly> i'm wanting to set one up locally to do some testing and playing I'm currently working so if I get a chance to later tonight I'll be attempting to install this into a free linux server vm
21:18:20  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:21:10  <DexDeadly> can I not have my windows machine connect to a linux server?
21:21:56  <NGC3982> Absolutely
21:22:09  <NGC3982> Google "How to connect from Windows to Linux using Putty"
21:22:10  <DexDeadly> i got version mismatch but I see why now
21:22:21  <NGC3982> Oh
21:22:24  <NGC3982> Where not in #linux
21:22:29  <NGC3982> My bad :D
21:22:41  <DexDeadly> looks like when I installed on my windows machine I had installed 1.5.3 and when I did apt-get install openttd it installed 1.3.3
21:23:04  <NGC3982> Aptitude is unfortunately not updated properly
21:23:18  <NGC3982> You will need to download the package from the site and install it using dpkg
21:23:30  <Pici> DexDeadly: What distro is that?
21:23:44  <Pici> oh,nm probably trusty.
21:24:12  <DexDeadly> 14.04
21:24:26  <Pici> Yeah.
21:24:28  <DexDeadly> yea
21:24:48  <DexDeadly> so how do I do it through a headless linux server
21:26:17  <Pici> DexDeadly: grab the deb from for your architecture and dpkg -i it
21:27:15  <DexDeadly> yea I downloaded, now to get it over to the vm lol
21:27:45  <Pici> I'd just run wget on the lonk.
21:28:00  <Pici> You might need to run apt-get install -f after installing to grab any missed dependencies.
21:29:41  <DexDeadly> ooh was unaware of that
21:38:06  *** _johannes [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:54:26  <andythenorth> is bed
21:54:27  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
21:57:38  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
22:02:36  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium]
22:16:39  *** roidal [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
22:33:07  <DexDeadly> woo hoo
22:33:09  <DexDeadly> got it!
22:33:29  *** ConductorCat [] has joined #openttd
22:35:05  <DexDeadly> Thanks pici, so I removed the previous install then I did as you said I did a wget on the URL then used sudo dkpg -i and the file name and it installed.  Ran openttd -D and boom up.
22:50:27  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
22:57:31  *** UukGoblin [] has joined #openttd
23:02:54  *** Progman_ [] has joined #openttd
23:04:29  *** Progman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04:31  *** Progman_ is now known as Progman
23:10:34  <DexDeadly> can you run as a service?
23:29:12  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:34:08  *** drac_boy [] has joined #openttd
23:34:09  <drac_boy> hi
23:35:57  <drac_boy> had any luck yet wolf01?
23:36:26  <Wolf01> no, luck doesn't even know I exist
23:36:32  <drac_boy> heh? :-s
23:50:19  <drac_boy> wish I could help but both 1. I wouldn't know a thing about trainz and 2. bit busy looking for grf details
23:53:14  <Wolf01> oh you meant that... yes I managed to finish the tutorial with patience, trials and errors, no luck involved
23:54:02  <drac_boy> :)

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk