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00:00:50 <drac_boy> btw for anyone who might just want an idea of what-if for a fictional usa-style locomotive have a look at this http://turbotrain.net/en/cingl.htm 00:01:11 <drac_boy> probably wouldn't be difficult to give it its own whine engine soundtrack in the grf anyway 00:04:49 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:06:14 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:51 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:08:01 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@99-110-190-158.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:11:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f745103.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 00:19:26 <drac_boy> hmm yikes https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/A_boat_train_approaches_Weymouth_Harbour_station.jpg/800px-A_boat_train_approaches_Weymouth_Harbour_station.jpg must be interesting road traffic organization at that time 00:22:57 <sim-al2> I wouldn't be be surprised if they had flagmen for that 00:23:42 <drac_boy> hows you as always? 00:23:49 <sim-al2> I'm good 00:23:53 <drac_boy> doing ok here 00:24:36 <drac_boy> btw we were talking about prr steam before but before I forget heres something a bit different.. 00:25:06 <sim-al2> In the early days of steam-powered vehicles the UK passed a law that required most self-propelled road vehicles to have a flagman anyway (and a later law, very very low speed limits) 00:26:08 <drac_boy> norfolk&western J class anyone? http://www.accucraft.com/img/tag/AL97-137-tag.jpg they were purposely built with smaller tires than the usual because simply they were designed to run fast *over* mountains :) 00:27:16 <drac_boy> I even recall one article where a photographer was in the area just taking some photos then he noticed a local freight train trying to move uphill as fast as its poor pistons would .. and the duo were looking at their timetable wondering why such a train was trying to rush it 00:28:45 <Wolf01> I watched a video of that one yesterday 00:29:18 <drac_boy> the answer is it somehow had been let out ahead of an express train which soon turned out to be a J class ... thankfully by the time it arrived the would-be red signal turned green (meaning the local had cleared) and the photographers got surprised when the J accelerated quite fast from right there 00:31:08 <sim-al2> Big bearings on those rods: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/NW_611.jpg 00:31:46 <sim-al2> Note the roller bearings on most (all?) axles 00:32:11 <sim-al2> Oh yeah, it does 00:33:20 <drac_boy> the funny thing is that one of the J was loaned to another railroad for test comparison and the paper put down the J as being slow (re top speed) .. of course the test was done on a flatland route which was a bit out of character for a mountain express locomotive 00:34:18 <sim-al2> It seems that it was run in excess of 100 mph at some points though 00:34:20 <drac_boy> abotu roller bearing, I believe timken actually bought their own locomotive as to fully refit it with bearings instead of journal and put it on tour, thats about all I recall on that subject 00:37:44 <sim-al2> Yeah, it seems to have taken a long time for roller bearings to catch on, considering the savings on needing to inspect and refill the grease so often 00:38:33 <sim-al2> Freight cars were still rolling around with plain bearings into the 70's, I guess because of the cost of converting old cars 00:42:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 00:43:51 <sim-al2> Hmm, grfcrawler is throwing a 500 error 00:44:02 <drac_boy> well from what I see the J class with 70 inch drivers could do bit over 100mph while the 80 inch on a UP 8-coupled was rated to 120mph but apparently would go faster than that 00:45:22 <sim-al2> apparently the Milwaukee's F7 4-4-2 could reach or exceed 120mph, but speed measuring in those days was sometimes.... optimistic... 00:45:23 <drac_boy> the E6 was 80 inch as well but likely limited by the small boiler (especially its length) re 115mph max on the special run 00:45:47 <drac_boy> heh these "as swift as an arrow" F7, dern them :) 00:46:34 <drac_boy> btw sim-a12 did you know that one of the F7 basically "blew up" its siderod assembly from the lubricator failing? thankfully even with emergency brake and a rod slamming into the ties/gravel the train still managed to stay completely upright on rails 00:47:00 <drac_boy> sadly because diesels were starting to come in this one F7 was shunned to the scrapyard and never to be anymore soon 00:49:44 <sim-al2> Yeah, I imagine that they were dependent on automatic lubricators to survive running at those speeds 00:50:05 <drac_boy> yep, the particular ones on the F7 had a bit of less-than-healthy history 00:50:54 <sim-al2> Great, I can't get the xUSSR set because TTD Russia is down for some kind of transfer 00:52:24 <sim-al2> Anyone else getting an Internal Server Error: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ 00:53:00 <DexDeadly> is there anything particular that needs to be done to enable connection from outside the network 00:53:44 <sim-al2> DexDeadly: You mean OpenTTD on your machine? 00:54:11 <drac_boy> oh yeah, fun quiz for you sim-a12 ... guess what kind of special track thinge would cause a lot of water to splash all over the place on the occasional fast trains? :) 00:56:19 <sim-al2> Uh, track pans? Or one seriously undermined washout... 00:56:26 <drac_boy> you guessed right at the former 00:56:58 <drac_boy> well I was just looking up some examples to see about a grf idea and I found something else I just never ever knew had existed.. 00:57:01 <sim-al2> The Brits really loved them, and a few eastern railroads in the US, other places not so much 00:57:09 <drac_boy> http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00001-jrc-chris-carter-40-dillicar-7.jpg thats not even a steam locomotive 00:57:36 <drac_boy> short note: the Type 4 had steam boilers before electric coaches were around it seem 00:57:41 <sim-al2> Yeah, the early diesels could piggy back on that and pick up water for the steam boilers 00:58:11 <sim-al2> Early diesels in a pinch could use water towers to refill their coolant too 00:58:47 <drac_boy> still, a diesel scooping water .. I'm sure I could hear uninformed american modellers going "that....is that a diesel locomotive?" 00:58:48 <drac_boy> :p 00:58:51 <sim-al2> I can't imagine sitting in the splash zone is good for those ties though 00:59:18 <sim-al2> That's a really cool photo 00:59:26 <drac_boy> yeah I suspect half of the higher maintenances was not in the water system itself but indirectly the ties/ground erosions 01:00:02 <sim-al2> A large scale water system will need some control for scaling, corrosion, etc too 01:00:10 <Wolf01> 'night 01:00:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:00:55 <sim-al2> Many desert railways had to use water treatment because what little water they could get in arid areas was often poor quality 01:02:32 <drac_boy> heres one of the few northeast usa examples http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/721/acb.jpg looks like they put extra-wide ballast in and covered the top with "splash bricks" to weaken the water into washing away less gravels 01:02:59 <sim-al2> Hmm, these guys really needed slab track... 01:03:11 <drac_boy> THAT is one tender you do not want to stand next to tho... lot of water at very high speed 0_0 01:03:30 <drac_boy> heck it even has more than ten (equally divided between left and right) bleed holes 01:03:46 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:10 <drac_boy> heres a more side-visible view https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/pages-from-1982q2.jpg .. lot of water being overflown out eh 01:04:13 <sim-al2> Just add a pan here: http://old.ic-group.org/upload/images/projects/Wr%20Oberbau%202.jpg 01:04:26 <sim-al2> Oh wow 01:04:57 <drac_boy> these Niagara had very HUGE tender to match the demand for very long nonstop run :p 01:05:37 <drac_boy> you kinda can see the slanted rivet line where the coal bunker meets the smaller water tank ... coal is hard to get on fly but water isn't < obviously 01:06:39 <drac_boy> of course there is always the water tender wagon as a 'second tender' for the less-priority train runs 01:06:43 <sim-al2> I belive the NYC dispatched 4-8-2s with smallish water capacity, but 43 tons of coal since they could get water from the track pans 01:07:19 <sim-al2> Oh yeah, those zany Germans and their track: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Gleise_y_normal_stahlschwellen.jpg 01:07:43 <drac_boy> australia not surprisingly had a sizeable number of these water "tenders" that was used with just about anything even the once-weekly branch mixed trains 01:08:24 <sim-al2> Yeah, much earlier and more often than most railways too 01:08:57 <sim-al2> Of course, the water tenders have reappeared now that most stations lack watering facilities 01:09:41 <sim-al2> And the condensing locomotive designs, the most famous being the South African Red Devils... 01:10:27 <drac_boy> heh actually I don't recall what exactly went on but these particular tenders were pretty much rebuilt into conventional tank+bunker design later in the locomotive's life 01:10:49 <drac_boy> the tank was naturally a bit small as the now-empty space around it apparently was supposed to be where the condenser stuffs went 01:10:55 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:21 <drac_boy> heres one photo http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures%5C44085%5CClass%2025NC%204-8-4%203441.JPG 01:12:39 <drac_boy> seem they were grouped as 25NC .. wonder if that meant 'No Condenser'? never know heh 01:13:41 <sim-al2> Yeah, I think it's Non-Condensing, but of course you don't want to accidently dispatch a NC into the desert... 01:14:15 <drac_boy> btw I'm not exactly sure what was the reasoning for it but I know that DR even had condensing tenders somewhere at some point 01:15:13 <drac_boy> then again DR seem to have tried quite a different kind of unique things .. not to mention a few locomotives from one class having their normal coal tender being switched for a strange hopper-looking one that was designed around firing on pulverized coal (needless that did not turn out too well as I recall afaik) 01:15:29 <sim-al2> Condensing was somewhat common, not necesairly for saving water but on the early urban railways, it helped reduce the emissions from the locomotive 01:15:32 <DexDeadly> sorry i realized I did not set my port forward to tcp and udp fixed and working now for a fun weekend with some friends 01:16:09 <sim-al2> The London underground had condensing locomotives using coke for fuel, all very good for running underground... 01:16:33 <drac_boy> here it is http://www.worldrailfans.info/Articles/Europe/GermanSteamImages/DRG-DB/DR58-1353.jpg .. that strange thing sitting on top of the normal tender box is the pulverize machine whatever it really did up there I dunno 01:17:05 <sim-al2> DexDeadly: Yeah that's the one thing you might have to change, but of course every router has to be so inconsistent 01:18:03 <drac_boy> and even the germans tried bite the "italy bug" too http://www.worldrailfans.info/Articles/Europe/GermanSteamImages/DRG-DB/50-4018.jpg 01:18:20 <drac_boy> I think there is not anything out there that has not already been tried by some way in germany too ;) 01:18:46 <sim-al2> Apparently the DR 58 class was converted to coal-DUST firing at some point 01:19:58 <sim-al2> Hmm, I wonder how many steam turbines they built 01:20:32 <drac_boy> turbines? you want turbines? http://wondersofworldengineering.com/wpimages/wpc1ab6290_05_06.jpg 01:20:37 <sim-al2> Oh my: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Combined_reciprocating_and_turbine-driven_locomotive%2C_German_State_Railways_%28CJ_Allen%2C_Steel_Highway%2C_1928%29.jpg 01:20:47 <sim-al2> wat 01:20:47 <drac_boy> I only know that existed but I got NO clue how it ran or whenever it even lasted 01:21:31 <drac_boy> looks like 2 or 3 turbines and umm I hope theres some reversing system somewhere 01:22:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6D6C3.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:58 <sim-al2> Not a turbine, but rather odd looking: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Camelback.jpg 01:23:32 <sim-al2> I imagine, rather warm in the summer 01:23:49 <drac_boy> haha, that was because the firebox need to be wide for the slow-burn high-btu coal :p 01:24:08 <sim-al2> Yep, poor fireman has pretty minimal protection though 01:24:57 <sim-al2> And verbal communication is pretty impossible 01:25:11 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 01:26:39 <drac_boy> well I recall some uk locomotives did fire on slower coals too, their firebox pretty much pushed the track gauge 01:27:18 <drac_boy> don't recall which tender class it was for an example tho 01:29:54 <drac_boy> btw heres a non-camelback anthracite fired locomotive to counter your camelback anyhow ;) http://www.steamlocomotive.com/pacific/rdg124.jpg 01:33:47 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:33:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 01:34:36 <sim-al2> Now that's what I call a firebox... 01:37:36 *** DexDeadly_2 [~DexDeadly@pool-100-11-252-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:38:08 *** DexDeadly [~DexDeadly@pool-100-11-252-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:33 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:42:18 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:2440:55f5:f5b:f9fc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:43:38 <drac_boy> btw how would you like to run a locomotive on peat? 01:44:54 <sim-al2> Sounds Finnish... 01:45:41 <drac_boy> ireland in fact .. same man who tried build the Leader in uk too 01:46:05 <sim-al2> Huh, I was going for Scotland as my second guess... 01:46:24 <sim-al2> How well did it work? 01:47:00 <drac_boy> not for long it would seem 01:48:52 <drac_boy> anyhow I'm going to bed soon so you have fun with something else here allright? :) 01:51:15 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 02:23:31 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:34:20 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:39:00 *** DexDeadly [~DexDeadly@pool-100-11-252-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:39:41 *** DexDeadly_2 [~DexDeadly@pool-100-11-252-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:26 *** DexDeadly [~DexDeadly@pool-100-11-252-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:50:45 *** norro_ [~quassel@vm-1-2.k023.de] has joined #openttd 02:50:45 *** norro [~quassel@vm-1-2.k023.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:30 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:cd5d:a302:93f0:963] has joined #openttd 03:11:16 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:38:27 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:cd5d:a302:93f0:963] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:40:59 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:685d:5ddd:f62c:a680] has joined #openttd 06:05:57 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 06:54:36 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-135-97.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:32:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:32:04 <andythenorth> o/ 07:44:35 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@99-110-190-158.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 07:54:06 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-168-81.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 07:59:35 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 07:59:38 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:00:33 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd 08:10:27 * andythenorth needs a faster horse 08:10:46 <Alberth> hihi 08:10:54 <Alberth> this a firs bug? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1164375#p1164375 08:11:51 <andythenorth> nah donât think so 08:12:03 <andythenorth> itâs related something like the removal of gridlines :) 08:13:04 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 08:13:10 <Alberth> just couple more horse for more speed? 08:13:27 <andythenorth> faster compile :P 08:14:02 <Alberth> ha :) 08:15:49 <andythenorth> my âgo fasterâ approach with incremental compiles is *very* fast if only a few things changed 08:15:58 <andythenorth> but the overhead for a compile from clean is huge 08:19:10 * andythenorth might remove all the nml-nfo stuff 08:19:18 <andythenorth> plain nml, unified compile 08:20:57 <andythenorth> seems to take about 15 seconds per roster, scales linearly with number of rosters 08:21:25 <andythenorth> there is unfinished support for compiling just one roster 08:27:39 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:685d:5ddd:f62c:a680] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:28:44 <Alberth> just disable a few others while testing one 08:28:59 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 08:29:44 <andythenorth> with the incremental compile overhead, itâs 2 mins for first compile 08:29:48 <andythenorth> versus 30s without 08:30:00 <andythenorth> need to compile 4 times without mistakes to make it worth it :P 08:30:46 <andythenorth> every time I make a mistake, the 30s compile wins 08:31:41 <Alberth> so make lots of mistakes? :D 08:32:57 <andythenorth> donât even need to try :P 08:38:29 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:40:01 *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd 08:43:14 <andythenorth> bbl 08:43:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:46:24 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:11:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18CA5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:13:46 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@i210033.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:14:00 *** TrueBrain is now known as Guest4754 09:14:00 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 09:17:23 *** Guest4754 [~truebrain@000125f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:32 <_johannes> I'm still on that rail net graph exporter... The difficult thing is that most YAPF function require a train as argument 09:19:56 <_johannes> so, if I'm trying to find the route from B->C, but my train is still at A, I'll need to somehow get the train to B 09:20:28 <_johannes> would you suggest to let the train drive the whole suggested path, or instead manipulating its location each time I need it to be in another station? 09:21:56 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 09:24:28 <Alberth> hmm 09:24:41 <Alberth> considered implementing your own A*? 09:26:11 <_johannes> Alberth: don't know if that's a good idea :P 09:26:24 <Alberth> or maybe add a second way to start up the search? 09:26:49 <_johannes> possible, with some modifications in Yapf 09:26:51 <Alberth> I don't know what properties of the train are used while searching 09:27:29 <Alberth> well, the puzzle is that speed of existing A* is crucial 09:27:30 <_johannes> one could try to pass a "pseudo train" or similar 09:28:02 <_johannes> with crucial, you mean "bad", or "relevant"? 09:28:11 <Alberth> making it faster is ok, making it slower is not 09:28:32 <Alberth> it's the #1 bottleneck in moving vehicles around at the map 09:28:55 <Alberth> so immediately related to the max number of vehicles in the game 09:29:22 <_johannes> ok... 09:29:59 <Alberth> although I am not convinced the current implementation is the best you can have :p 09:31:15 <Alberth> the entire template stuff looks like an elaborate way to prevent any compiler optimizations, to me 09:31:56 <Alberth> at the time, it was no doubt faster, but several years of compiler development have passed since then 09:35:08 <_johannes> you mean virtual functions would increase speed here? 09:36:19 <Alberth> I don't know, but the current implementation just locks any option out 09:36:47 <Alberth> compilers tend to get optimized for the common code case 09:37:02 <Alberth> a class with a base class and virtual functions is quite common :) 09:38:50 <Alberth> the more convoluted code you hack around things, the less likely it is that the compiler understands what you're doing 09:39:09 <Alberth> so you totally rely on your own coding ability for optimizing 09:39:48 <Alberth> even if the author could do that X years ago, it won't be optimal today 09:40:12 <Alberth> processors, memory, and compilers change continuously 09:44:30 <michi_cc> _johannes: You need your own replacement for CYapfFollowRailT::ChooseRailTrack anyway, what prevents you from choosing yoour origin differently than the existing implementation? 09:46:40 <sim642_> Alberth, templates don't prevent compiler optimizations because templates generate non-template code in the background which gets optimized just as any other code 09:47:01 <Alberth> you looked at the yapf code? 09:47:12 <sim642_> furthermore, the optimizations might be different for different types the template is used with to provide even greater level of optimization for speficic use 09:47:26 <sim642_> no, not really 09:47:31 *** sim642_ is now known as sim642 09:50:50 <sim642> the suboptimal aspect of templates would be the produced binary size if the same template is used with a huge number of different arguments since that causes duplicate functionality code but I'm not sure if it'd cause much performance impact 09:51:07 <_johannes> michi_cc: good point! looks like one can simply pass NULL as the vehicle in FindPath 09:51:26 <_johannes> and yes, the origin and destination could be found otherwise 09:51:46 <michi_cc> _johannes: I wouldn't do that unless you want to ignore railtypes. 09:52:39 <_johannes> michi_cc: oh, yes, I see it 09:53:17 <_johannes> michi_cc: maybe just replacing all occurences of Vehicle* by something that meets the minimum requirements the pathfinder needs? 09:53:36 <_johannes> like: FindPath(UsedVehicleDate* v) 09:53:41 <roidal> what high-resolution graphic sets would you suggest? 09:54:06 <michi_cc> What'S wrong simply using the train you are graphing? 09:54:11 <roidal> for landmarks, and vehicles 09:54:42 <_johannes> michi_cc: if my train has the order list a->b->c->b, then to find the track from b to c, I'll need to move it to b first, correct? 09:55:03 <michi_cc> No. 09:58:00 <_johannes> ah, you mean: I pass the origin to my st... function, use that to get the origin (instead of getting it from the train), but then still pass the train to FindPath()? 09:58:44 <Alberth> check how it uses orders? 10:01:40 <_johannes> already tried, but all these function only check the next order 10:02:09 <_johannes> ok, I think I got it... 10:05:28 <roidal> hm, can the basesets GFX use the newGFX format too? 10:05:52 <roidal> newGRF* 10:08:20 <Alberth> basesets and newgrf are quite separate worlds, afaik 10:08:58 <Alberth> but both support high resolution graphics, and full colour 10:09:10 <Alberth> as well as the original 8bpp art 10:09:24 <roidal> ah, so the baseset-format was change too 10:09:28 <roidal> to provide 32bpp? 10:09:48 <Alberth> at least for the sets that have such high resolution / full colour grapihcs, that is 10:10:20 <Alberth> zBase is a baseset with 32bpp, and high resolution 10:10:35 <Alberth> I don't like it though, too clean to my taste 10:11:41 <Alberth> afaik there is a 32bpp wiki page 10:11:46 <Alberth> listing stuff 10:11:56 <Alberth> no idea how up to date it is 10:14:29 <roidal> hm 10:16:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D6C3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:24:11 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:24:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:31:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host220-239-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:31:57 <Wolf01> moin 10:32:54 <Alberth> o/ 10:51:34 * andythenorth refactors compile :| 10:51:45 * andythenorth probably needs to teach make about deps 10:51:48 <andythenorth> blearch 10:54:06 <Wolf01> lol... I ordered a display dock from microsoft back in december, shipping in 4-6 weeks, put 1 week for the shipping itself... where's my product? still not shipped, contacted the customer support "we are sorry, we'll ship it in 8-12 weeks", I hope it will come before I'll change the phone when it will become old :( 10:55:10 <Wolf01> back to train driving session 10:57:32 <andythenorth> gah 10:57:43 <andythenorth> nmlc takes 26s, but the compile takes 40s :( 10:57:50 * andythenorth must find the slow 10:58:12 <Wolf01> buy a faster pc? 11:00:16 <Wolf01> meh, no steam loco tutorial, had to figure out alone how to not blow up the loco just after the first acceleration 11:05:54 * andythenorth tries all the pythons 11:09:41 <andythenorth> yeah, new computer is probably the solution 11:09:41 <andythenorth> :P 11:14:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18CA5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:18 <argoneus> good morning train friends 11:20:06 *** Antheus [Antheus@janus.theender.net] has quit [Quit: Bow down to your Lord Antheus] 11:20:46 *** Antheus [Antheus@janus.theender.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:22:15 <_johannes> the real problem about the templates is imo not the runtime 12:22:25 <_johannes> it's that you can't read the code as a human 12:23:15 <_johannes> for example, rail nodes have an attribute named m_key , but where is that m_key actually defined 12:23:33 <_johannes> it's in some base class, which depends on many templates... 12:24:04 *** ^0 [~oftc-webi@ip5f5acacf.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 12:25:25 <Alberth> ag m_key 12:25:47 <_johannes> ag ? 12:26:07 <Alberth> grep, but tuned for searching source code 12:26:41 <_johannes> for example, yapf_costrail.hpp, line 329... where is that m_key defined? I have no clue... 12:28:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f7472e5.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 12:29:04 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p6hnsabpz is the ag output 12:30:05 <Alberth> so yapf_node.hpp or yapf_node_rail.hpp 12:30:15 <Alberth> hoi 12:30:45 <frosch123> hmm, "ag" is shorter than "~/my<tab>" 12:30:46 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:05 <_johannes> I just installed "ack" 12:31:12 <_johannes> ag is not available for gentoo... 12:31:24 <Alberth> $ rpm -qf `which ag` 12:31:24 <Alberth> the_silver_searcher-0.31.0-1.fc22.x86_64 12:31:27 <frosch123> _johannes: i suspect the "a" stans for "alberth" 12:31:32 <_johannes> lol 12:31:50 <Alberth> nope, it doesn't :) 12:32:05 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:32:45 <frosch123> hmm there is a silversearcher-ag package 12:33:18 <_johannes> for which distro frosch123 ? 12:33:26 <_dp_> "The command name is 33% shorter than ack, and all keys are on the home row!" 12:33:33 <frosch123> debian 12:33:39 <_dp_> who cares about home row probably doesn't use querty... 12:34:12 <Wolf01> fuck, steam locomotives are really a mess, I can't even figure out how I made it moving, I think if I chose the one with full simulation it would blow up in some seconds 12:34:14 <frosch123> _dp_: there are people using german keyboard layout, who claim that vim is any good 12:34:20 <Alberth> I used ack for a while, but there was an edge case where it didn't do what I wanted 12:35:04 <_johannes> anyways, Alberth , I think it's from yapf_node.hpp, but the type is Tkey_ 12:35:15 <Alberth> template type? 12:35:21 <frosch123> but well, there are also people who do not use a 40 year old arcane keyboard layout, who think that vim using ESC as escape key is any good 12:35:48 <_johannes> yes, and I don'T know where this is from 12:36:39 <Alberth> yep, reading that code is a challenge :) 12:36:58 <frosch123> oh, it uses colours, how unusual 12:37:40 *** ^0 [~oftc-webi@ip5f5acacf.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:38:20 <_dp_> frosch123, I know next to nothing about both vim and german layout so no idea what're you trying to say %) 12:39:24 <frosch123> vim uses "/" for searching 12:39:24 <Alberth> _johannes: bottom of yapf_common.hpp lists the overall template 12:39:30 <frosch123> which is a convenient key on an us layout 12:39:43 <frosch123> but is shift+7 on a german layout, which is the worst for a hotkey 12:39:59 <Alberth> _johannes: ag CYapfT 12:40:24 <_johannes> Alberth: just saw where it is defined: struct CYapfRail1 : CYapfT<CYapfRail_TypesT<CYapfRail1 , CFollowTrackRail , CRailNodeListTrackDir, CYapfDestinationTileOrStationRailT, CYapfFollowRailT> > {}; 12:40:25 <Alberth> no german keyboard remapping available? 12:40:26 <frosch123> also vim uses ESC as a common key, which was in the position of capslock on the machine vi was designed for; but which is a silly to reach key nowadays 12:40:59 <_dp_> shift+7 doesn't sound too horrible, and I bet you can rebind it if you want 12:41:07 <Alberth> /me finds esc position very convenient (but I am left-handed :p ) 12:41:11 <frosch123> Alberth: i only use vim when there is no other editor available, as such i always use the default configuration 12:41:21 <Alberth> makes sense 12:42:03 <frosch123> _dp_: i have trouble to press shift+7 with one hand; it's possible, but usuallyi use two 12:42:17 <Alberth> use ? :p 12:42:36 <frosch123> is that equivalent to / ? 12:42:48 <Alberth> yes, but up instead of down 12:43:05 <Alberth> if you use N instead of n, you get reverse match 12:43:17 <Alberth> and you get mostly the normal search 12:44:12 <frosch123> _dp_: anyway, did you consider alternatives to ScrollCompanyClientsTo? like extending ScriptViewport::ScrollTo to work in ScriptCompanyMode ? 12:45:19 <_dp_> what is ScriptCompanyMode? you mean issuing commands on behalf of a company? 12:45:33 <frosch123> yes 12:45:34 <_dp_> I think it's more clear for it to be issued as deity 12:46:22 <frosch123> the difference is that using the CompanyMode would also allow human clients to issue a command like that 12:46:57 <_dp_> hm, yeah, but do they need to? 12:47:31 <frosch123> well, forcing a scrolling on all clients is already on the level of "does it need to do that" :p 12:47:47 <frosch123> usually there is a goal list or story book, where you can click on something which then triggers the scrolling 12:48:09 <_dp_> also there is other problem actually, it would be better to have command that scrolls clients individually, not whole company 12:48:19 <_dp_> but gs doesn't know a thing about clients 12:48:54 <frosch123> well, i would be annoyed by any automatic scrolling, if i am currently building something 12:49:04 <frosch123> so, i would always prefer some entry in the goal or story guy 12:49:23 <frosch123> why would you want to scroll single clients? 12:49:37 <frosch123> the client who issued something is likely already in the position 12:49:47 <frosch123> you would want to tell the other clients in the company 12:49:49 <_dp_> I'm only going to use it when clients join/start company 12:49:55 <_dp_> to focus on claimed town in cb 12:50:02 <frosch123> ah, on joining 12:50:46 <frosch123> that's like a completely different thing :p 12:51:14 <_dp_> I'm also thinking of automatically claiming some random town for new company, and scrolling is a must for that 12:52:14 <frosch123> ok, i will think a bit more about that "join company" context 12:52:29 <_dp_> yeah, mb it wold make more sense to extend joining itself, but there is no place for gs 12:52:50 <frosch123> it would also make sense for other scripts to display the goal/status to joining clients 12:53:05 <frosch123> like in silicon valley i only display the goal on game start or when a company is funded 12:53:10 <frosch123> not when joining 12:53:14 <_dp_> also I can imagine some gs that may need scrolling in the middle of the game if some major event happens 12:53:29 <frosch123> that i would file under annoying :p 12:54:04 <_dp_> not if it happens once in a game 12:56:59 <Wolf01> yes, I agree with frosch123, gnomoria has it and it's really annoying when you are building something, last time I mined an entire layer because a lizard was sighted 12:58:24 <_dp_> even I argee on that, but we're just talking about api here, it's up to gs to use it wisely 12:58:32 <Wolf01> at least in ottd if the construction fails, it doesn't construct even the pieces which don't fail 12:58:37 <frosch123> yes, it all depends on context :) 12:59:29 <Wolf01> it could be good for tutorials, but you have to disable the user interaction before doing that 12:59:30 <_dp_> Wolf01, that one is not true, many things do construct partially 12:59:52 <Wolf01> you mean with autorail/road? 13:00:03 <_dp_> autorail, area clear 13:00:28 <Wolf01> oh, the area clear with drag&drop has been finally implemented? 13:01:10 <Wolf01> wait, maybe I'm confusing with the diagonal clearing 13:01:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:04:55 <_dp_> btw, for tutorial(s) there is ScrollTo function. this one is more for tutorial-ish multiplayer things) 13:07:44 <frosch123> Wolf01: don't imitate eddi :p 13:08:36 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f048081126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:09:14 <Wolf01> I'm doing my best efforts 13:14:04 <_dp_> speaking of drag&drop construction... it probably shouldn't work across multiple viewports) 13:14:47 <frosch123> you probably mean news and vehicle viewports 13:15:00 <frosch123> because the extra viewports were specifically added for that 13:15:14 <frosch123> i think it's even disabled in the news viewport 13:15:16 <_dp_> yeah, leads to building weird things when news suddenly pops up 13:16:01 <_dp_> is it? never had this issue with news myself but I recall someone complaining 13:17:14 <_dp_> only happened to me with extra viewport that I had pinned to watch some town 13:18:08 <Wolf01> I usually do that with long straight lines or tunnels 13:18:53 <frosch123> hmm, maybe i only dreamed that :p 13:19:14 <_dp_> you build tunnel only on one end so that's fine anyway 13:19:31 <Wolf01> not if you don't know where it ends ;) 13:19:34 <_dp_> and for long lines it sounds overcomplicated, why not just zoom out? 13:19:42 <Wolf01> because touch 13:20:27 <_dp_> I mean you can use extra viewport to see other end, it's not cross-viewport constuction 13:20:48 <Wolf01> yes, I meant that 13:20:55 <Wolf01> for tunnels 13:24:13 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:13 <Wolf01> with touch screen and 2x zoom in (because in normal zoom I miss the tile) is difficult to scroll 13:24:42 <Wolf01> so for > 30 tiles tracks it is really useful 13:26:26 <_dp_> hm, I bet polyrail is even more useful then xD 13:27:00 <_dp_> also, just checked, constructing works on news, no restrictions at all 13:27:03 <Wolf01> even a double track autorail with signal would be handy in that case 13:32:26 *** srhnsn [~srhnsn@p2003006A6C7B9400C90133EA04F85794.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:40:31 <_dp_> I'm considering doing a patch that adds a third type of economy, say, "stable", in which production doesn't change at all. 13:40:43 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:57 <_dp_> frosch123, what do you think of it? 13:41:28 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:41:57 <_dp_> also in that case is it ok to just switch setting type from bool to uint8 (or whatever matches the size) or should I add new one? 13:42:03 <Wolf01> but industries should start with middle-high production, because if all the industries start with 32t of production it will piss of everyone 13:42:09 <Wolf01> *off 13:42:36 <Alberth> _dp_: that's something you can handle in newgrf 13:43:51 <_dp_> Alberth, I know there is grf already but it doesn't work with custom industry sets 13:44:18 <Alberth> it won't ever work with industry sets, as the newgrf decides 13:45:48 <_dp_> yet current smooth-switch does work 13:47:07 <Alberth> not really, newgrf doesn't understand smooth economy 13:48:49 <_dp_> as I see it works unless grf has a custom callback 13:49:44 <_dp_> though all popular ind sets probably have it... 13:49:54 <frosch123> i considered adding an "economy speed" parameter 13:50:07 <frosch123> which reduces calls to "random production changes" 13:50:17 <frosch123> slows down smooth economy, and is readable by newgrf 13:50:48 <_dp_> sounds fine for me too 13:51:14 <frosch123> about bool->uint8, we did that multiple times already, it just needs the right savegame conversion code 13:52:33 <frosch123> also smooth economy is a BAD FEATURE 13:52:43 <frosch123> it quite high on the realism bullshit ladder 13:55:00 <_dp_> idk about realism, but drying out industries on long-running mp server is bad for sure :p 13:55:18 <_dp_> and any production change isn't good for goal competitiveness 13:55:57 <frosch123> from single player gameplay point of view: the original double/half production changes were rare, and they called for player action 13:56:18 <frosch123> the smooth economy changes happen every month to all industries, there is no immediate implication on gameplay 13:56:33 <frosch123> it just obfuscates what is happening, snice the news messages are completely useless 13:56:52 <_dp_> for sp and non-goal mp any economy is fine, it's not a major factor 13:57:22 <frosch123> also when rolling a dice every month, you could as well skip rolling a dice 13:57:25 <andythenorth> economy is meh 13:57:33 <frosch123> randomness only makes sense when it is random 13:58:20 <_dp_> yeah, skipping a roll exactly is what I was thinking with that "stable" economy) 13:59:21 <frosch123> anyway, bye till evening 13:59:52 <_dp_> though I'm a bit confused with newgrfs now, do random changes happen in newgrfs internally or there are separate callbacks for smth like "base" production and random fluctuatitons? 14:00:52 <_dp_> because I don't want to stop ecs production increase or firs multipliers with this, just eliminate randomness 14:01:07 <_johannes> can a Tile be multiple squares? like, e.g., a whole 2x4 station is one Tile, consisting of 2x4 squares? 14:01:55 <_johannes> probably not because there is a TileArea type? 14:03:37 <_dp_> you mean TileIndex? It's just an integer so no 14:04:39 <_johannes> _dp_: ok, so a TileIndex represents exactly one square? (with square, I mean the small squares you see in a game) 14:05:43 <_dp_> _johannes, kinda, it's basically just a x and y coordinates merged together 14:05:57 <_johannes> _dp_: thanks 14:06:50 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:11:36 <_dp_> _johannes, btw, those very squares are called tiles :) and there is Tile struct that stores info about each, I forgot about it at first 14:12:13 <_johannes> ah I saw that one... 14:13:02 *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:30 *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd 14:13:49 <_dp_> _johannes, so, TileIndex is exactly what it's called, an index in array of tiles (aka map) 14:14:02 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 14:32:09 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 14:34:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:37:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 14:38:19 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 14:40:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: how does smooth economy work? :P 14:40:43 <andythenorth> and why doesnât andythenorth just know this 14:44:48 * andythenorth ponders a GS 14:44:52 <andythenorth> keep-alive-industries 14:45:08 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 14:45:13 <andythenorth> industries will close one-by-one unless arbitrary goals are met for each one 14:45:23 <andythenorth> winner is whoever has most industries left after n years 14:45:29 * andythenorth must to chores 14:45:31 <andythenorth> biab 14:45:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:45:34 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:46:07 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 14:46:09 <drac_boy> hi 14:46:49 <drac_boy> btw anyone here from uk really thought the waterpans was only for nonstop express trains? well, heres something to the contrast http://www.aidan.co.uk/lg/EMJ-Dillicar1962.jpg 14:47:15 <drac_boy> I'm not sure but that sure looks like one of the very common freight 0-6-0's as well 15:03:34 *** AdmiralKew_ [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd 15:09:34 *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:08 <drac_boy> weird thing is even when I was using ukrs a bit before I don't think I ever bothered buying the 0-6-0 at all 15:11:18 <drac_boy> ah well its just a grf after all :) 15:14:23 <drac_boy> either way do have one silly uic-related question tho... do you just write "two C'C' units" or is there a more informal way to describe these particular locomotives that was made up of at least two or more separate bodies permanently kept together? 15:16:36 * drac_boy might be missing something but isn't sure heh 15:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. C'C'+C'C' 15:22:35 <drac_boy> ah so thats where the plus came from...guess I'll try remember that for everything else 15:23:24 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-135-97.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:24:24 <Alberth> it's fine if you write it down :) 15:25:46 <drac_boy> as long as you're not writing every single little things daily, this is what it could look like? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jLekLAbMWm4/maxresdefault.jpg 15:25:51 <drac_boy> mind you I'm just joking of course :p 15:26:23 <Alberth> just scan everything :p 15:26:40 <drac_boy> alberth yeah as I recall he wished all these filing cabinets away into the form of a blue imac :) 15:26:51 <drac_boy> had watched a bit of that movie some time ago 15:27:39 <Alberth> how people spend their day :) 15:31:05 *** srhnsn [~srhnsn@p2003006A6C7B9400C90133EA04F85794.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: srhnsn] 15:31:41 * drac_boy gives alberth ten thousand yellow post it's just cause 15:35:35 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 15:36:11 *** Quatroking_ [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 15:41:04 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:43:59 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:50:02 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-135-97.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:55:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:03:20 <andythenorth> o/ 16:05:37 * andythenorth remembers some FIRS thing in the makefile was slow 16:05:45 <andythenorth> sed over the hg log or something 16:06:06 <andythenorth> Iron Horse makefile is unexpectedly slow 16:09:12 <andythenorth> canât remember what we changed 16:09:22 <drac_boy> umm, changelog? ;) 16:11:19 <andythenorth> maybe this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/d6f48bc380a2/diff/Makefile 16:21:03 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:21:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:23:02 <andythenorth> changed that, saved about 5s 16:24:49 <drac_boy> going to eat soon so bye anyhow mr.coder :) heh 16:24:53 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 16:25:17 <Alberth> too much $(shell ...) there 16:25:28 * andythenorth wonders about the makefiles 16:25:56 <andythenorth> I have 6 or so of them in active projects 16:25:58 <andythenorth> all different 16:26:37 <Alberth> version stuff (around line 150) is now in findversion.sh iirc 16:27:41 <Alberth> it seems to start a few dozen shells for major stuff like replacing a small piece of text 16:27:58 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b204:dae5:e67d:79ba:e8da:32b7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:27:58 <Alberth> you can probably even code that in the makefile itself :p 16:28:28 <Alberth> imho, code it in python, and throw out all the crap 16:28:57 <andythenorth> I donât know what it does 16:29:02 <andythenorth> which makes me scared of it :) 16:29:22 <andythenorth> itâs eating 6 seconds or so on every compile 16:29:29 <andythenorth> seems to be overkill for the result 16:29:48 <Alberth> maybe replace it with findversion.sh? 16:30:03 * andythenorth looks 16:30:22 <andythenorth> (the 6s is the total extra time to run the makefile, on top of the components that build the grf) 16:30:25 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:55e3:3d6e:77f3:3f3d] has joined #openttd 16:31:07 <andythenorth> hmm 16:31:11 <andythenorth> what is findversion.sh? 16:31:17 * andythenorth has missed a memo here :) 16:31:36 <Alberth> isn't one in bb? 16:31:47 <Alberth> may be GC specific thouigh 16:33:03 <Alberth> *GS 16:33:13 <Alberth> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/make-nml-common doesn't seem to have one 16:33:58 <andythenorth> there is one in BB 16:34:13 * andythenorth wonders how to implement that 16:35:24 <Alberth> opengfx-mars repos also have one 16:35:30 <andythenorth> it returns some vars I think 16:35:34 <andythenorth> and I need to parse those 16:35:38 * andythenorth guessing 16:36:11 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f048081126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 16:38:12 <Alberth> it returns revision, branch, modified flag and some more data 16:38:59 <Alberth> BB makefile parses it (not very good, I see though) 16:39:16 <Alberth> VERSION_INFO := "$(shell ./findversion.sh)" 16:39:16 <Alberth> REPO_VERSION := $(shell echo ${VERSION_INFO} | cut -f2) 16:39:16 <Alberth> REPO_TAG := $(shell echo ${VERSION_INFO} | cut -f5) 16:39:16 <Alberth> REPO_DATE := $(shell echo ${VERSION_INFO} | cut -f7) 16:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i think make-nml uses the current date or something 16:47:34 <Alberth> UNIX2DOS=$(shell which unix2dos 2>/dev/null) <-- make that UNIX2DOS=unix2dos 16:48:00 <Alberth> no point in inserting the absolute path in the variable 16:48:25 <frosch123> that will likely break stuff 16:48:45 <frosch123> "which" is used in those cases to result in the empty string, when it does not exist 16:48:55 <frosch123> later there are ifs in the makefile, which check for empty string 16:49:11 <frosch123> however, you can make it a := instead of a = 16:49:29 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 16:49:31 <Alberth> for optional stuff, ok 16:49:50 <Alberth> for required stuff, like nml, you can skip that 16:50:04 <Alberth> or hg 16:56:07 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:15 <andythenorth> how do I merge default into a working branch with hg? 17:04:18 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@99-110-190-158.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:34 <andythenorth> I have just read the manual 17:04:44 <andythenorth> but not clear 17:04:59 <andythenorth> child #1 has been adding trains to iron-horse in a branch 17:05:11 *** Clockworker__ [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 17:05:14 <andythenorth> and I want to pull recent changes from default into that branch 17:05:30 <andythenorth> is it safest to save a patch from default and apply it? 17:06:32 <Alberth> iirc, you check out the destination, and then merge with the other one 17:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hg checkout default, hg merge branch 17:07:10 <Alberth> hg has rollback, so you can do it, check how it looks, and then decide whether it's good 17:07:12 <andythenorth> ach, I can always delete the repo and clone again 17:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> or the other way around 17:07:53 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: that's what I do to merge into default :) 17:08:05 <Alberth> but yeah, it's always tricky, one to look up 17:08:08 <andythenorth> is âhg checkout' synomymous with âhg upâ in this context? 17:08:15 <Alberth> it is 17:08:20 <andythenorth> ok 17:08:30 <andythenorth> so the commands are identical to git, but the results are different 17:08:38 <andythenorth> this page is totally impenetrable to me, but eh http://hgbook.red-bean.com/read/a-tour-of-mercurial-merging-work.html 17:09:37 <Alberth> that's moving stuff between repos 17:09:48 <andythenorth> works, thanks 17:10:18 <andythenorth> ah, thatâs why itâs not answering my question then :) 17:10:44 <andythenorth> people merge between different repos? :o 17:10:49 <andythenorth> instead of just branching? 17:10:59 <andythenorth> or do they mean instances of the repo 17:11:00 <andythenorth> nvm 17:12:25 <Alberth> yesm hg recommends making a clone for a new branch, iirc 17:12:35 <Alberth> at least they did 17:12:39 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:34 * andythenorth back to fixing animated pixels 17:22:31 <_johannes> is there a debug mode in openttd which shows me the tile coords under the mouse pointer? 17:24:03 <_dp_> land info does I think 17:24:52 <frosch123> yes landinfo 17:25:09 <frosch123> when debug is enabled via console, it also prints the map array for that tile to console 17:25:19 <frosch123> also there is the console command "scrollto" which does the reverse 17:25:22 <frosch123> scroll to tileindex 17:26:13 <_johannes> frosch123: just typing "landinfo" in console says "command not found" 17:27:16 <frosch123> it's in the info menu on the very right 17:28:12 <_johannes> ah that question mark thing... how could I forget that 17:31:24 <Alberth> play the game more often :p 17:31:42 <_johannes> haha I play it for five years, multiple hours each week :D 17:32:12 <_johannes> and still have not discovered half of the game... 17:32:16 * andythenorth too :P 17:32:46 <andythenorth> diagonal land-lower/raise :P 17:32:51 <andythenorth> recently found 17:32:56 <andythenorth> ctrl-drag vehicle groups 17:32:59 <andythenorth> recently found :P 17:33:27 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Hidden <- always fun to read :) 17:33:32 <_johannes> I heard you can even build diagonal tunnels? 17:33:40 <andythenorth> :P 17:33:42 <_dp_> haha, when I learned about ctrl magic I tried ctrl-ing everything xD 17:34:24 <andythenorth> so many things I didnât know :o 17:36:26 <_johannes> openttd is the game I've most played in my life 17:36:29 <_johannes> by far... 17:37:03 <_johannes> it's ~ 0.5% of my whole lifetime 17:37:06 <_johannes> :P 17:38:45 <frosch123> i am also worried that the most written english i have read, was chat by andy 17:39:30 <andythenorth> :P 17:39:35 <andythenorth> canât be good 17:40:09 <frosch123> well, if i am lucky, i have read more pratchett 17:43:43 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:48:31 <_dp_> how do newgrfs like firs randomize production? 17:49:16 <_dp_> something tells me that "random production change" callbacks aren't very random) 17:50:01 <frosch123> firs has no randomness whatsoever 17:50:43 <_dp_> I just checked with firs 1.smth and there were some production changes 17:51:00 <_dp_> on monthly callback it seems 17:53:04 <andythenorth> FIRS randomises primary production at game start 17:53:10 <andythenorth> there is no other randomness 17:53:27 <andythenorth> random production change is handled to prevent OpenTTD default behaviour ;) 17:55:23 <frosch123> _dp_: you cannot control industry grfs, which do monthly production changes 17:55:38 *** Quatroking_ is now known as Quatroking 17:55:39 <frosch123> you cannot slow the months, or you will break other stuff 17:55:54 <frosch123> you can only slow the random production change callback 17:56:12 <frosch123> and offer a new variable to grfs, so they can respond to the setting themself 17:58:57 <_dp_> I'm trying to find out where random fluctuations happen and where it's base production changes 17:59:07 <_dp_> callback is called "Monthly random production change (35) " in wiki 17:59:23 <frosch123> yes, but it is essentially a "monthly" callback 17:59:51 <frosch123> all grfs with supplies or similar use it as "monthly" and not for production change 18:01:06 <_dp_> yeah, that's what I trying to find out 18:02:54 <_dp_> interesting, newgrf can fall back to default changes but that will not take smooth_economy setting into account. 18:04:22 <frosch123> no, smooth_economy is disabled when newgrf does anything with production 18:04:52 <_dp_> how to expose a variable to newgrf? 18:06:48 <frosch123> GetGlobalVariable in newgrf.cpp 18:07:47 *** __builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:50 <frosch123> or GetPatchVariable for stuff that is constant during a game 18:08:18 <frosch123> or reasonably constant :p 18:09:12 <_dp_> well, do settings count as reasonable constant?) 18:09:31 <_dp_> looks like... 18:09:42 <frosch123> you cannot change the values from GetPatchVariable in multiplayer for example 18:09:46 <frosch123> since you need to reload newgrf 18:10:14 <_dp_> hmm 18:10:22 <frosch123> basically, either the newgrf reads the var once on start, and then sets stuff accordingly 18:10:30 <frosch123> or it reads in whenever used 18:12:16 <_dp_> I guess it's better be in globals then 18:12:38 <frosch123> if you put it in globals you cannot make availability of industries and vehicles depend on it :p 18:13:56 <_dp_> oh 18:14:34 <_dp_> so, basically it's a choice between being able to set availability or change it during the game 18:15:01 <_dp_> at least I can imagine how latter would be useful) 18:15:08 <frosch123> there are always corner cases, but some stuff can only be set on start 18:15:34 <frosch123> either a vehicle exists, or it does not 18:15:49 <frosch123> you cannot change a setting, and suddenly all vehicles on tracks are invalid :p 18:16:21 <frosch123> anyway, if you do economy speed, it likely belongs into Global 18:16:44 *** __builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:17:09 <_dp_> yeah, don't think "speed" is a good word for it though 18:17:16 <_dp_> more like volatility or smth 18:17:49 <frosch123> possibly :) 18:17:56 <andythenorth> meh, canât make Iron Horse compile faster 18:18:05 * andythenorth experiments 18:18:31 *** cursarion [xrs@adishbestservedworldly.xrs.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:19:29 <_dp_> it may even be more that one setting 18:20:06 <_dp_> smooth economy influences frequency of changes, severity of changes and station rating influence over them 18:20:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:21:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:11 <frosch123> that would be very smooth economy specific 18:21:19 <frosch123> i doubt any grf would care about that 18:21:20 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 18:21:23 <frosch123> grfs have their own parameters 18:21:28 <frosch123> like effect of supplies and stuff 18:21:34 <frosch123> those settings make no sense for that 18:22:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 18:22:32 <_dp_> yeah, but now I wonder how do I do all if I'm going to replace smooth economy with some other setting %) 18:22:48 <frosch123> trash smooth economy :p 18:22:50 <frosch123> it's crap 18:24:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:26:10 <frosch123> i considered removing it completely and supplying a substitute newgrf 18:26:46 <frosch123> but since it is so crappy, making the grf would be too boring 18:28:24 <_dp_> dunno about that, I think I like it more than original one 18:29:44 <andythenorth> hmm 18:29:48 <andythenorth> rendering switches is slow :P 18:30:29 * andythenorth just took about 8 seconds off Iron Horse compile 18:30:34 <andythenorth> 8 / 38 18:30:45 <andythenorth> 20% or so faster :P 18:37:39 <_dp_> original economy only uses 60% station rating threshold 18:38:22 <_dp_> and only x2 /2 changes that are way too big for any king of competitive play 18:38:30 <_dp_> *kind 18:38:51 * andythenorth would fix it in newgrf :) 18:44:40 <andythenorth> bbl 18:44:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:46:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6C1B0.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:47:01 <_johannes> is YAPF able to go into a depot if it's the only way to reach a station ? 18:47:22 <frosch123> yes, 18:47:28 <frosch123> it's called "overflow depot" 18:47:38 <frosch123> it's a known track layout 18:49:17 <_dp_> I'd really like to have a configurable economy without newgrfs 18:49:41 <_dp_> like wtf, you can confugure the hell out of pathfinder but only have two pitiful bools for economy xD 18:50:03 <frosch123> i'd really remove all the disputable stuff from the game, and make everything via addons :p 18:50:13 <frosch123> +like to 18:50:32 <_dp_> frosch123, that would be an empty program :p 18:50:50 <frosch123> sounds awesome 18:50:56 <frosch123> no bugs 18:52:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D6C3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:57:03 <_dp_> I'm kinda tempted to return to my original idea and just add "stable" economy 18:57:19 <_dp_> coz it's more or less clear how to stop random changes but not how to scale them 19:01:34 *** Cursarion [xrs@adishbestservedworldly.xrs.fi] has joined #openttd 19:01:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f7472e5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:02:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f7472e5.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 19:04:29 *** Crisco [~oftc-webi@209.194.234.171] has joined #openttd 19:05:20 <Crisco> someone recommend a good heightmap to create a save on? 19:08:03 *** Cursarion^ [xrs@adishbestservedworldly.xrs.fi] has joined #openttd 19:08:31 *** Cursarion [xrs@adishbestservedworldly.xrs.fi] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:13:44 <_johannes> frosch123: if a train is at A and I tell YAPF to go to A, then YAPF should return immediatelly, right? 19:14:01 <_johannes> I mean, it's not driving a complicated cycle in order to get to A again? 19:18:05 <_dp_> I wish there was an easier way to check, but looks like all goal servers use smooth economy 19:18:11 <_dp_> also coop and reddit 19:18:22 <_dp_> so if any needs trashing it's original one :p 19:20:00 *** Crisco [~oftc-webi@209.194.234.171] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:21:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:29:49 <andythenorth> meh 19:29:57 <andythenorth> are rosters in newgrfs stupid? 19:33:23 *** Cursarion^ is now known as Cursarion 19:56:38 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:57:14 <AdmiralKew_> i was wondering where and how you got roosters into the game 20:01:12 <andythenorth> roosters would be better 20:29:32 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f048081126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 20:32:19 <andythenorth> Iron Rooster? 20:32:20 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_the_Iron_Rooster 20:32:22 <andythenorth> :P 20:43:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18CA5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:50:37 <Alberth> :) 20:50:46 <supermop> rooster roster 20:52:34 *** AdmiralKew_ [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:00 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd 20:57:06 * andythenorth is baffled by names 20:57:17 <andythenorth> I need to name Iron Horse rosters 20:57:31 <andythenorth> they were going to be shakespeare quotes about horses 20:58:41 <andythenorth> but 20:58:43 <andythenorth> âForgiveness, horse! why do I rail on theeâ 20:58:56 <andythenorth> is not easily understood as âAfrican trains' 21:02:59 *** orudge [~orudge@000128f1.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: easy, the african roaster of iron horse should obviously be named iron zebra 21:03:53 * andythenorth considered that :) 21:03:58 <andythenorth> but wondered if it was silly 21:04:21 <Ketsuban> The Swahili for "horse" is "farasi". 21:04:23 <andythenorth> do I use Wart Hog for the equivalent RVs? 21:05:38 <andythenorth> hmm. Igbo for âhorseâ is âinyinyaâ 21:07:23 <frosch123> no, you would keep the "road", and replace the "hog" with something african 21:07:32 <frosch123> hippos are said to be realted to hogs 21:07:53 <frosch123> but hippo could also work for horse 21:07:55 <frosch123> iron hippo? 21:08:11 <frosch123> sounds more like heqs though 21:08:40 * andythenorth followed a wikipedia link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans 21:08:43 <andythenorth> interesting 21:09:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: does this scheme scale? o_O 21:09:18 <andythenorth> Norwegian TrainsâŠIron ??? 21:10:11 <frosch123> there are various horse like things in various areas of the world 21:10:25 <andythenorth> mostly called âhorseâ I think :D 21:10:31 <frosch123> iron mule 21:10:46 <andythenorth> I should just call the rosters âAfrican trainsâ, âUK and Ireland trainsâ etc :P 21:11:00 <andythenorth> but then I get complaints they arenât realistic eh? 21:11:04 <frosch123> iron elephant 21:11:23 <frosch123> iron bear 21:11:35 <andythenorth> so just pick a distinctive animal 21:11:36 <frosch123> iron moose 21:11:38 <andythenorth> iron moose 21:11:41 <frosch123> :p 21:11:41 <andythenorth> oh you beat me :P 21:11:49 <Alberth> elephant is more appropriate for africa, imho 21:12:02 <frosch123> i picked it for india :) 21:12:05 <andythenorth> I like the random animal idea 21:12:08 <andythenorth> appealing 21:12:15 <andythenorth> I will find animals that arenât easily conflated :P 21:12:17 <Alberth> iron duck 21:12:43 <andythenorth> iron tuna 21:12:43 <frosch123> elephants seem to be more domestic in india than africa 21:12:55 <frosch123> i have never heard about work elephants in africa 21:13:43 <frosch123> anyway, i guess you can find a specific animal for every major geological region 21:14:27 <frosch123> likely you could as well for smaller regions, but then noone would recognise the animal :p 21:15:29 <andythenorth> road moose 21:17:02 <andythenorth> Iron Bushbaby? 21:17:03 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senegal_bushbaby 21:17:38 <andythenorth> itâs mostly narrow gauge trains 21:18:04 <andythenorth> Iron Lion :D 21:18:26 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_African_lion 21:19:25 <frosch123> iron rhino 21:19:29 <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k21kOJYchnI 21:20:09 <frosch123> lion and rhino are both similar to iron, both hard to pronounce together 21:20:49 <andythenorth> interesting :) 21:21:00 <andythenorth> in my accent, Iron Lion flows as two similar sounds 21:21:42 <andythenorth> Iron Giraffe? 21:22:22 <frosch123> i like silly names, so i still like zebra :) 21:23:42 <andythenorth> Iron Okapi? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okapi 21:24:28 <frosch123> also nice 21:24:41 <frosch123> would give iron alpace for eastern stuff 21:25:03 <frosch123> hmm, no, south america 21:25:24 <andythenorth> silly old zebras donât like in west africa, where my trains are 21:25:29 * andythenorth might ignore that 21:26:08 <andythenorth> Iron Hartebeest is no good? 21:26:11 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartebeest 21:26:30 <_dp_> camel? 21:26:45 <andythenorth> Iron Camel 21:27:20 * andythenorth thinks Zebra 21:27:36 <andythenorth> not planning any East African trains, and all trains are the same in Africa, maybe? 21:27:37 <andythenorth> :P 21:28:11 <frosch123> hmm, for west africa it says mostly gazelle 21:28:18 <andythenorth> Iron Gazelle 21:28:35 <andythenorth> Iâll have to add some description text anyway :) 21:28:44 <andythenorth> if you want Zebra, Iâm happy with that 21:29:02 <frosch123> gazelle would work with moose 21:29:14 <frosch123> and stag 21:29:18 <andythenorth> and reindeer 21:29:32 <andythenorth> and bison 21:29:39 <frosch123> that's too christmassy 21:29:52 <andythenorth> norway :) 21:29:55 <Alberth> roster is only active in december :p 21:29:59 <andythenorth> norway is always christmas 21:30:02 <frosch123> iron bison is like lion again :p 21:30:15 <andythenorth> iron elk 21:30:18 <frosch123> i wondered about iron buffalo for an us set 21:30:29 <andythenorth> buffalo makes me think of mozarella 21:30:36 <frosch123> what.. 21:30:48 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_mozzarella 21:30:56 <andythenorth> âdomestic Italian Water Buffalo" 21:31:04 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Mediterranean_buffalo 21:31:57 <frosch123> i remember that dioxine stuff 21:35:39 * andythenorth considers making a name generator 21:36:35 <andythenorth> Iron Sandworm? http://roadsandkingdoms.com/2015/riding-the-sandworm/ 21:37:30 <Wolf01> Dune 21:38:21 <frosch123> http://www.kirstybreaks.co.uk/uploads/3/1/9/9/3199580/278690_orig.jpg :) 21:38:51 <frosch123> http://www.geotoystore.com/uploads/3/0/1/0/30106687/s298814300498736299_p64_i2_w1091.jpeg <- more crowded 21:39:21 <frosch123> "animal world map" has more results like that 21:39:44 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:40:35 <frosch123> hmm i wonder why "iron python" is so funny to me 21:43:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: animal world map is winning :) 21:43:26 <andythenorth> I am not going to comment on iron python 21:43:38 <frosch123> most maps you cannot read though 21:43:57 <andythenorth> iron polar bear 21:44:10 <frosch123> not many trains there :p 21:44:15 <frosch123> iron penguin 21:44:38 <Wolf01> iron cat? 21:45:00 <Wolf01> or more likely, iron zoo 21:45:25 <andythenorth> iron penguin http://www.railwaysofthefarsouth.co.uk/11cwhaling.html 21:47:02 <_dp_> Iron Tsetse 21:47:05 * andythenorth now inventing rosters just for the name 21:47:09 <andythenorth> iron wallaby 21:47:14 <andythenorth> iron tiger 21:47:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: pick Zebra or Antelope or Lion, then I can make a commit :P 21:48:49 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b202:23a4:24eb:b10d:798d:2df5] has joined #openttd 21:48:59 <andythenorth> Iron Hyena? 21:49:17 <frosch123> i don't like lion or hyena 21:49:33 <Wolf01> oh, iron wolf and shut up ;) 21:49:51 <frosch123> i wonder about the difference between antelope and gazelle 21:50:11 <Wolf01> http://www.tanzania-experience.com/blog/gazelles-vs-antilopes/ 21:50:48 <Wolf01> "all gazelles are antelopes, but not all antelopes are gazelles" nice one 21:51:11 <frosch123> well, iron antelope then 21:53:48 <andythenorth> Iron Pika https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pika 21:54:26 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:54:33 <frosch123> iron meerkat 21:56:16 <andythenorth> fits the range 21:56:27 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerkat 21:56:47 <andythenorth> well, only 1000 miles wrong :) 21:56:48 <frosch123> it's the standard cute animal :) 21:57:21 <frosch123> anyway, western africa: go for antilopes 21:57:44 <frosch123> they work well with moose, and buffalo or even mule 21:58:11 <frosch123> i guess don't pick too small animals :p 21:58:23 <frosch123> nor the really big ones 21:58:23 <andythenorth> Iron Bongo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bongo_(antelope) 21:58:29 <Wolf01> it's for a passenger service set? 21:58:53 <andythenorth> mostly freight 21:58:55 <Wolf01> because antelope doesn't fit well for a long heavy goods train 21:59:53 <andythenorth> Iron Gorilla? 22:01:54 <frosch123> gorillas don't run 22:02:51 <frosch123> i don't think it needs to be a strong animal 22:03:31 <frosch123> engines are named crocodile, piggy or duck 22:03:45 <andythenorth> Iron Bushbuck 22:03:48 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushbuck 22:03:51 <andythenorth> kind of antelope 22:03:57 <andythenorth> sounds suitable for tropic 22:04:01 <andythenorth> not too big or too small 22:04:35 <andythenorth> map range is super-realistic w.r.t to the trains used 22:07:55 <andythenorth> Iron Bikeshedding? :D 22:11:56 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-168-81.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 22:16:15 <_dp_> Iron Badger 22:17:21 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/sv7aXX7 22:19:33 <andythenorth> I can have Iron Badger for UK? 22:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> can they have a running sound of "badger badger badger badger mushroom mushroom"? 22:25:44 <andythenorth> ha ha 22:25:49 * andythenorth must to bed 22:25:57 <andythenorth> bye and thanks 22:25:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:36:09 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 22:36:36 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:38:59 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-135-97.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:43:00 *** Clockworker__ [~Clockwork@187-4-5-106.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:04:33 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f7472e5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:22:16 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:37 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f048081126.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 23:22:47 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 23:31:03 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 23:43:23 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:38 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d822b01.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 23:51:05 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:51:06 <drac_boy> hi 23:55:57 *** Xal [~sam@S0106881fa12987ab.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd