Log for #openttd on 27th March 2016:
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00:06:18  <Samu> question: when an AI bankrupts, i'd like to start another immediately, i wanted to automate this process, any idea?
00:09:12  <Samu> the way i have it working now, it force starts 15 AIs via a script file
00:09:54  <Samu> if one bankrupts, it isn't replaced because of the competitor cap of 14
00:10:24  <Samu> it takes 2 to bankrupt to re-fill the max of 14.
00:11:08  <Samu> i want to use all 15
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06:20:44  <andythenorth> o/
06:22:02  <Rubidium> aloha andy
06:37:52  <andythenorth> poop
06:38:10  <andythenorth> something is setting m1 7 for bridges, and I can’t figure out what :(
06:38:33  <andythenorth> docs say it’s unused
06:48:54  * andythenorth makes friends with printf
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07:00:54  <andythenorth> hmm
07:01:00  <andythenorth> bridges are working
07:01:21  <andythenorth> but double click on a bridge head with autoroad tool causes an assert :P
07:01:22  <andythenorth> 'working'
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08:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause> "unused" doesn't mean "not accessed"
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09:02:00  <andythenorth> bah
09:02:04  <andythenorth> 6 year old was playing the game
09:02:09  <andythenorth> “why is there only one type of road"
09:02:20  <andythenorth> “there should be another one that costs more and is faster"
09:02:22  <andythenorth> silly boy
09:03:30  <andythenorth> and he likes Toyland best
09:03:35  <andythenorth> I’m going to ban him
09:07:16  <frosch123> only downhill roads make cars faster :)
09:08:20  <andythenorth> I should add trams to his game
09:08:24  <andythenorth> probably solve it
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09:20:22  <Alberth> hi hi
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09:57:42  * andythenorth wants a gold star
09:57:57  * andythenorth read the crash log and figured out why the alert was triggered
09:59:12  <Alberth> \o/
10:00:34  * andythenorth forsees a UI problem with removing catenary
10:06:46  <andythenorth> which could be circumvented if this patch only provides with/without catenary for trams, and not roads
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10:24:27  <andythenorth> hmm
10:24:38  <andythenorth> removing a road stop leaves the road in place
10:24:54  * andythenorth trying to figure out correct way to remove catenary
10:25:02  <andythenorth> is it even necessary?
10:35:46  <Alberth> you can ctrl+remove stop afaik
10:36:33  <Alberth> assuming it's a drive-through stop, it makes sense to keep the road, some vehicle may use it :)
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10:39:56  <Flygon> andythenorth: Even Kids know Roadtypes are OTTD's 3rd most important feature :3
10:40:17  <Flygon> 1st most important is free-moving viaducts and tunnels. 2nd most diagonal stations
10:40:24  * Flygon dashes away from andythenorth's bricks
10:41:27  <Flygon> Also, if your kid knows what Flygons are, tell him one said Hi, and wants a watermelon. If he doesn't, disregard this statement. :B
10:41:51  <Alberth> /me thinks people have non-unified ideas about the meaning of the word Roadtype
10:44:50  <Flygon> Ehh...
10:44:57  <Flygon> I sort of kind of viewed it like NuTracks
10:44:59  <Flygon> But
10:45:00  <Flygon> BUT
10:45:08  <Flygon> That has the same 'problems' as NuTracks
10:45:13  <Flygon> The lack of 'tonnage' handling
10:45:34  <Flygon> And there's a trillion other 'problems'
10:45:40  <Flygon> Some more superficial than others
10:46:26  <frosch123> Alberth: i guess in particular, noone has an idea how shared road/tram catenary could possibly work
10:46:50  <frosch123> with town owned road and various tram and/or catenary owners
10:47:23  <Alberth> Flygon: I don't know NuTracks at all
10:47:34  <Flygon> tl;dr: Different speed limits with different tracks
10:47:39  <Flygon> The higher grade the track
10:47:47  <frosch123> Alberth: it adds about 16 railtypes, that's about  all you need to know
10:47:49  <Alberth> also, it should aim for minimal set of functionality first
10:47:50  <Flygon> The more maintainence costs, and initial $$$ paid
10:49:40  <Alberth> Flygon: too many bells and whistles
10:50:30  <Flygon> Ehh
10:50:30  <Flygon> To e
10:50:30  <Flygon> me*
10:50:37  <Flygon> Part of the problem with NuTracks is
10:51:00  <Flygon> Is that each type of track, whether there's 3rd rail, or overhead, or both, or none, are all different railtypes
10:51:08  <Flygon> Which makes it a pain to manage
10:51:14  <Flygon> And causes other gameplay complications
10:51:30  <Flygon> If it was able to be... what
10:52:05  <Flygon> 5 different grades of rail (VL Speed, Low Speed, Normal, M
10:52:12  <Flygon> Uhm, ignore everything after (
10:52:30  <Flygon> And have 3rd rail and overhead be applied as separate things across the tracks
10:52:35  <Flygon> It'd be way WAY easier to use
10:52:39  <Flygon> But this is not possible atm
10:52:50  <andythenorth> ha ha
10:52:52  <Alberth> right, what do you expect if you try make a realistic train sim in a tycoon game?
10:53:01  <andythenorth> afaict the catenary problem is absolutely unsolvable
10:53:19  * andythenorth likes non-solvable problems
10:53:28  <andythenorth> more interesting
10:54:32  <Flygon> Alberth: Some of us like to play with our toys :P
10:54:46  <V453000> one of the greatest things about factorio is how it does not attract realism shit, everything has a good gameplay reason
10:55:58  <frosch123> i have read a few "because realism" forum thread in factorio forums :p
10:57:01  <frosch123> but yes, even the complex mods with "water -> salt" + "water + salt -> saltwater" do not focus on realism :p
10:57:19  <andythenorth> that chain sounds awesom
10:57:21  <andythenorth> +e
10:57:50  <Alberth> V: try adding temperate climate :p
10:57:52  <frosch123> well, the next step in the chain is an electrolisys of the saltwater
10:58:31  <Flygon> (tho, a feature I'd personally love, that's not so much gameplay, as much as general aesthetics, and overall making the game more appealing, is all three climates in one)
10:58:57  <Flygon> (I'd love a giant map of Australia, that goes from the snowy sub-arctic of Tasmania, to the barren Simpson desert, all in one map)
10:59:08  <Alberth> make newobjects?
10:59:08  <Flygon> (but this requires a lot of features that aren't really possible yet)
10:59:26  <frosch123> funnily it only needs to combine arctic + tropic :)
10:59:27  <Flygon> You want me to apply a newobject to every tile of the map?
10:59:31  <frosch123> temperate is superficious
10:59:35  <Flygon> Ehhh...
10:59:37  <frosch123> superfluous?
10:59:44  <Flygon> Temperate has it's fits
10:59:50  <Flygon> superfluous would be correct
10:59:58  <Flygon> But I think superficious is valid too
11:00:00  * Flygon shrug
11:00:01  <Flygon> It's English
11:00:13  <Flygon> You just make shit up on the spot and then shit works because of could shit works
11:00:14  <Flygon> Shit yah
11:00:16  <Alberth> it's a nice beginner level :)
11:00:52  <Flygon> I mean, places like New South Wales are very 'Temperatey'
11:01:09  <Flygon> Victoria would sorta go from Temperate, to Subartic, depending on the season...
11:01:19  <frosch123> nsw is rather mediterran
11:01:20  <Flygon> Summer is Temperate, Winter is Subarctic...
11:01:22  <Alberth> Flygon: who cares about real-world places?
11:01:24  <Flygon> It's cool stuff
11:01:43  <Flygon> frosch123: The mountains always felt more Green than Tropical, around Sydney
11:02:04  <Flygon> Alberth: Self-obsessed people, like me :P
11:02:15  <Flygon> Also, on a more serious note
11:02:19  <Flygon> It makes a fun "What if" scenario
11:02:55  <Alberth> play a true train sim instead?
11:03:35  <Flygon> You're saying there's only one valid way to enjoy a game?
11:04:13  <Flygon> "You're having fun the wrong way"
11:06:14  <Flygon> Just because the composer never intended for the music to be watched, doesn't mean it doesn't have appeal, afterall :3
11:09:56  <Alberth> my main problem is making feature requests based on their form of fun, without taking the original goal of the program into consideration
11:11:58  <andythenorth> incorporate toyland into every climate? o_O
11:13:15  <Alberth> just delete all other climates :)
11:14:02  <Flygon> The original goal, by and large
11:14:05  <Flygon> Is achieved
11:14:23  <Flygon> The project is reaching the point where scope expansion is acceptable, in increments.
11:14:36  <Flygon> Reaching
11:15:25  <andythenorth> so I missed this yesterday eh
11:15:34  <andythenorth> I am going to have to track owner of the catenary
11:15:37  <andythenorth> how many bits for that?
11:16:06  <Alberth> didn't frosch warn you for that already? :)
11:16:15  <andythenorth> I missed it among the jokes
11:16:32  <Alberth> why not make it equal to the owner of the road?
11:17:25  <andythenorth> road / tram?
11:17:31  <Alberth> works for me
11:17:38  <Alberth> or even without owner?
11:17:44  <andythenorth> what if I remove my tram track + catenary and your trolleybuses are using it?
11:18:12  <Alberth> what if I remove my road and your trucks are using it?
11:18:28  <andythenorth> OMG GRIEFING EXPLOIT!
11:18:32  <andythenorth> revert all roads
11:18:48  <Alberth> implement infra sharing
11:18:54  <frosch123> i think you cannot make the catenary shared by default
11:19:13  <frosch123> if you add catenary tram to roads, it cannot enable trolley busses by default
11:19:20  <frosch123> you need to build trolley catenary in addition
11:19:39  <andythenorth> ok, I wondered about this
11:19:50  <frosch123> only that way you can define when the catenary is removed
11:19:57  <andythenorth> currently because visually it needs to be same, I am treating it as one type of catenary
11:19:58  <frosch123> because you have definite owners for raod and for tram
11:20:02  <frosch123> and controlled upgrades of them
11:20:14  <andythenorth> now I think split the catenary road / tram
11:20:18  <frosch123> if you upgrade the roadtype by building tram, you run into problems imho
11:20:31  <andythenorth> not even opinion, I’ve found them :P
11:20:42  <andythenorth> there are problems because of shared nature of roads
11:20:53  <frosch123> next problem is visualisation of road/tram/road+tram catenary :p
11:21:00  <andythenorth> same for both
11:21:11  <andythenorth> let someone else patch that :P
11:21:20  <frosch123> maybe via transparency options
11:21:26  <frosch123> show road-accesible tiles
11:21:30  <frosch123> show tram-accessible tiles
11:22:12  <andythenorth> that’s quite nice
11:22:26  <andythenorth> I am keen not to break all existing tram track newgrfs :P
11:23:21  <andythenorth> also it looks wise to limit scope of this patch to just trams
11:24:37  <frosch123> i like to distinguish between concepts, and what get implented :)
11:25:04  <frosch123> you need a reasonably complete concept, but not a complete implementation
11:25:29  <andythenorth> so my propsal conceptually: both trams and roads gain a catenary bit
11:25:37  <andythenorth> I implement the use of the tram bit
11:26:00  <andythenorth> construction of the two tram types is via the road menu on global toolbar
11:26:20  <andythenorth> roads would be same if implemented
11:26:42  <andythenorth> changing from type 1 to type 2 of road or tram would be via a convert tool, or overbuilding (dunno which)
11:27:31  <andythenorth> this proposal now uses 3 bits for roadtype + catenary.  Doesn’t that pack into 2 somehow?
11:28:35  <Alberth> 3 bits is 8 values, or did you mean 3 values?  In the latter case, yes
11:32:54  <andythenorth> there are 4 types
11:33:20  <Alberth> 2 bits, 00 01 10 11
11:34:11  <andythenorth> also roadtype is 2 bits currently, which makes my maths wrong :P
11:34:33  * andythenorth stops trying to do bit trickery
11:34:59  <Alberth> :)
11:38:15  <andythenorth> although instead of 1 bit for ‘has tram’ and 1 bit for ‘has catenary'
11:38:26  <andythenorth> could combine the bits, and have 3 sub-types
11:38:35  <andythenorth> for trams, I don’t know why that would be wanted
11:38:51  <andythenorth> for roads, that would be one way to then add trails
11:39:26  <andythenorth> and it might be a cleaner way than what I’m doing now, which is dumping catenary bits onto multiple tile types
11:46:15  <Alberth> tropic food processing plant with light green roof looks very nice, andy :)
11:46:38  <Alberth> good combination of green and blue :)
11:49:07  <Alberth> euhm, 225,000 l oil  / month   :O
12:04:41  <argoneus> good morning train friends
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12:22:26  <planetmaker> moin and happy Easter
12:22:40  <Alberth> moin pm, and happy easter too :)
12:28:54  <Samu> hi
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12:51:15  <Samu> 8 servers running, one on each core, all with 15 AIs, 10k microps -
12:53:06  <Samu> what is a kernel time vs cpu time?
12:54:16  <Samu> core 5 is getting delayed for some reason
12:55:03  <Alberth> cpu time is the amount of time a program is actually running computations
12:55:24  <Alberth> kernel time is the amount of time that the kernel is running on behalf of the program
12:55:30  <andythenorth> Alberth: is that a lot of oil, or not enough? o_O
12:55:49  <Alberth> 1920, long route, lots!  :)
12:55:55  <Samu> all started at the same time, the server most ahead already goes with 16 years game time, core 5 server is on 14 years game time
12:56:17  <Samu> must investigate
12:56:39  <Alberth> andythenorth:  the point is however probably that firs production doesn't increase
12:57:01  <Alberth> so while it's a lot at first, it won't get worse :p
12:57:10  <Alberth> (until sending supplies :p )
12:57:26  <andythenorth> depends on your (all new) supply settings :)
12:57:31  <Alberth> Samu: pause on connect?
12:57:44  <Samu> yes, but i barely get anyone joining
12:57:54  <Alberth> andythenorth: default :)
12:58:15  <Samu> maps are small, 256x256 all of them
12:58:28  <Alberth> Samu: now that's a surprise, given there are more servers than players already
12:59:19  <Samu> ethernet is reporting 0 kbps, so it means no one are on them
13:00:15  <Alberth> why would anyone pick your server?
13:00:29  <Samu> only to spectate, all company slots are used by ais
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13:01:22  <Samu> I will spectate core 5, must see what's wrong
13:01:53  <Alberth> and you really think there are people that want to watch a game played by AIs for any more than say 1 minute?
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13:02:18  * andythenorth has the map grid doc open
13:02:18  <andythenorth> unclear what’s free in m4
13:02:18  <andythenorth> due to crossings
13:02:18  <andythenorth> I think it’s used by ground type on a level crossing
13:02:18  <andythenorth> and by road stop, on roads
13:02:43  <Samu> sluggish mouse movement, slow moving vehicles, hmmm
13:02:58  <Samu> well, i am experimenting something
13:03:07  <Samu> will see which AIs are too slow for multiplayer
13:03:19  <Samu> then i'll host 1 AI per server when i get done with this
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13:05:51  <V453000> sluggish is good
13:07:18  <Samu> interesting find, when i join a server, cpu usage of that server goes up considerably
13:15:58  <Samu> from these tests, AdmiralAI appears to be gentle
13:16:56  <Samu> with the cpu
13:17:45  <_dp_> aren't there a limit to how much cpu ai can use?
13:18:04  <Samu> it limits the operations, not really cpu usage
13:18:29  <Samu> BorkAI is stressing CPU quite often
13:18:58  <Samu> both have 10k ops, but AdmiralAI game is behaving smothier
13:19:05  <Samu> smooth*
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13:44:15  <drac_boy> hi
13:44:39  <V453000> lol Samu is unbanned?
13:45:11  <drac_boy> sorry to ask this kind of question toward real trains but I'm wondering if anyone here know if rack sections generally have a slow crawl start or that depends on the cog type among other things? (because bluntly I'm not sure if a train should be able to engage at 40kph but...hmm just wondering tho)
13:55:24  <Alberth> V: as far as I know, he ran off being mad about not anyone helping?
14:03:11  <Flygon> drac_boy: NSW has rack trains going 90km/h
14:03:13  <Flygon> Ski railway
14:03:18  <Flygon> Fastest rack railway in the world
14:03:27  <Flygon> Yes, that is 100% racked
14:04:53  <Flygon> Anyway
14:04:54  <Flygon> Nini!
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14:08:19  <Wolf01> o/
14:08:42  <andythenorth> is there a convenience method to read a pair of bits?
14:09:00  <Wolf01> GetBit()?
14:09:26  <argoneus> get bit by a dog
14:09:44  <andythenorth> I am using that for single bits
14:09:44  <andythenorth> I wanted to read a pair and get a value 0-3
14:10:15  <argoneus> getbit twice?
14:10:21  <argoneus> there's no such thing as "pairs"
14:10:30  <Wolf01> boolean operations then
14:10:40  <argoneus> yeah
14:10:46  <argoneus> use >> and &
14:11:10  <argoneus> bit-wise operations even
14:11:33  <frosch123> andythenorth: GB()
14:11:34  <argoneus> bit shift to the right until your pair is all the way on the right
14:11:42  <argoneus> and then bitwise and with 3
14:11:47  * drac_boy pokes flygon with a firm pillow anyhow
14:11:54  <drac_boy> btw hows wolf01
14:12:03  <Wolf01> bad day
14:12:10  <V453000> Alberth: I see, then I am doing everything right "D
14:13:21  <Alberth> :)
14:13:44  <andythenorth> eh?
14:13:48  <andythenorth> I have a pair of shoes
14:13:58  <andythenorth> of course there are pairs
14:18:35  <argoneus> andythenorth: I meant in the context of bits
14:18:36  <drac_boy> whats gone wrong wolf01? :-/
14:18:41  <argoneus> there's no reason to have a function to get pairs of bits
14:18:42  <Wolf01> Easter
14:19:25  <Samu> debuglevel net= what is the range? 0 to 9?
14:19:53  <Alberth> andythenorth:  GB(value, base_bit_number, num_bits)
14:20:06  <Alberth> Samu: yep
14:21:00  <Samu> oki, what is the level i need to hide all those queried from
14:21:00  <drac_boy> wolf01 hmm whats wrong with eggs? :-s
14:21:30  <Samu> wiki doesn't even mention net=
14:21:47  <Alberth> Samu: lower than you have now
14:21:51  <Wolf01> aren't the eggs the problem (also I don't purchase eggs since I was a kid)
14:22:17  <frosch123> you purchased them yourself?
14:22:31  <Wolf01> some yes
14:22:43  <frosch123> but, yeah, i assume you are more interested in the bunny
14:23:11  <drac_boy> wolf01 let me guess, you end up with eggs given by others and you dunno what to do?
14:23:21  <drac_boy> sorry if thats not the case...just wondering here is all
14:23:31  <Alberth> frosch123:  isn't that after the chocolate eggs?  :)
14:23:57  <Wolf01> nah, I end up with others, and I don't know what to do, or better, I know I want to be away from them
14:25:21  <andythenorth> ok so I was using GB already
14:25:25  <andythenorth> the question was wrong
14:25:31  <drac_boy> ah I see where you're at now..hmm yeah I can't really suggest much on how to deal with that sorry :-/
14:25:48  <andythenorth> given two bits, how do I extract value 0-3 out of them without writing ‘if
14:25:52  <andythenorth> must be trivial
14:26:30  <frosch123> see GetRoadTileType for an example
14:26:34  <frosch123> it does just that
14:26:37  <andythenorth> great
14:26:39  <Wolf01> valueyouwnat =bits >> positionofbits && 3 IIRC
14:26:43  <Wolf01> *want
14:27:01  <andythenorth> eh, I should probably just extend GetRoadTileType
14:27:09  <andythenorth> and read 2 pairs with it
14:27:13  <andythenorth> thanks
14:28:37  <Alberth> valueyouwnat =bits >> positionofbits && 3 IIRC     <--  GB(bits, positionofbits, 2)  is equivalent
14:33:28  <Samu> net=1 to remove the queries...
14:33:41  <Samu> net=2 showsthem
14:33:55  <Samu> and it starts at a default of net=6
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14:55:08  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone with mac knowledge? i have here someone's laptop with a usb modem, and since he installed 10.11.3 he can
14:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> 't install the driver anymore
14:56:06  <drac_boy> eddi well thats a common problem.. anything past 10.5-10.7 dropped support for a lot of "classic" things as apple indirectly seem to like to call it
14:56:17  <drac_boy> might be whats affecting him
14:56:51  <andythenorth> usb modem? :o
14:56:55  <andythenorth> like dial-up?
14:57:01  <andythenorth> or 4G dongle?
14:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause> EDGE/3g/Hsomething
14:59:30  <andythenorth> the vendor doesn’t have a driver?
14:59:48  <andythenorth> I used those things for a while, some don’t need a driver
14:59:52  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently only an old one
15:00:02  <andythenorth> in some cases, all the ‘driver’ does is install a supposed convenience app
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15:48:33  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it might be a dead driver
15:48:40  <andythenorth> or it might be SIP
15:48:49  <andythenorth> I wouldn’t disabled SIP personally, but eh
15:51:54  <Eddi|zuHause> he said the tried that already, but it didn't work (tm)
15:52:22  <frosch123> i am so disappointed in the twitter users in my town
15:52:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm letting it rest for a few hours, maybe i get some inspiration
15:52:47  <frosch123> i saw 10 police transporters an hour ago, and there is still a helicopter over the city, and i still do not know what it's about :)
15:52:58  <Eddi|zuHause> he also wanted to do a workaround with a virtual windows, but setting up the network for that seemed to be beyond his capabilities
15:53:21  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: must be terrorism.
15:53:27  <Alberth> euhm, there exist twitter users that do not disappoint you?
15:53:39  <frosch123> Alberth: interesting point
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15:54:47  <Samu> This logging is great, i can catch all crashes. 1 crash for DitactorAI, 4 crashes for TeshiNet, 4 crashes for TracAI, 1 crash for TransAI, total 16 crashes from yesterday
15:55:22  <Samu> 6 from MedievalAI
15:56:29  <frosch123> i always use medievalai, if i need an ai crash for testing something
15:57:58  <Samu> uninstalling the crashing AIs
15:58:00  <Samu> brb
16:24:35  <andythenorth> frosch123: does your police helicopter not have a twitter feed? :o
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16:25:24  <Snail> Happy Easter to all!
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17:04:16  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause:,4039730 <- almost
17:04:25  <frosch123> just 200m from here
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17:38:51  <Snail> hey guys is it just me, or has the OTTD sprite aligner multiplied the offsets by 4?
17:39:09  <frosch123> yes, the offsets refer to the highest zoom level
17:45:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27527 trunk/src/lang/tamil.txt (2016-03-27 19:45:35 +0200 )
17:45:46  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
17:45:47  <DorpsGek> tamil: 13 changes by aswn
17:49:23  <Snail> frosch123: ok, got it
 how about putting another set of buttons in the sprite aligner, that add/subtract 4 units (instead of 1) to the current offsets?
17:49:42  <frosch123> there is ctrl+click which does 8 or so
17:49:45  <Snail> that would help when playing with the offsets
 now I have to press the buttons in a multiple of 4 times, and that might generate errors
17:49:48  <Snail> ohh ok
17:49:53  <frosch123> no idea who came up with the idea of 8 though :)
17:50:08  <Snail> hehe, yes 4 would have been more intuitive
17:50:23  <frosch123> the comment even says 10 :p
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18:02:51  <Samu> multiple desktops on windows 10 is great
18:04:11  <frosch123> i got multiple screens to get rid of having to switch desktops
18:05:08  <Samu> i dont remember this feature on windows 7
18:05:11  <Samu> being on*
18:05:22  <frosch123> linux/unix has had it for 30 years or longer
18:05:38  <frosch123> i have not been using windows for 8 years
18:06:32  <frosch123> xp was my last windows
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19:11:19  <Samu> I am impressed by the performance and efficiency of AdmiralAI
19:14:33  <Samu> it's one of the most messy worlds to look at, but cpu usage looks great
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19:19:01  <Samu> AdmiralAI server is delayed for only 16 days in comparison with the fastest server, which is chopper
19:19:34  <Samu> but chopper didn't even build for 9 years, i should have started the games in 1960
19:20:46  <Samu> it's been 12 years
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19:22:27  <Samu> AroAI is currently the most CPU intensive. It overtakook BorkAI
19:22:33  <Samu> must look what is happening
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19:45:37  <Alberth> chopper needs airports for its helis :)
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19:55:22  <Eddi|zuHause> where is PgUp on a mac laptop?
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20:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause> news are weird... "cat was stuck in a box for 8 days after accidentally being mailed to cornwall"... and the comments are like "wtf? mail takes 8 days in GB?"
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20:36:57  <glx> comments look usual
20:38:21  <^Spike^> Eddi|zuHause almost sounds like you have high expectations of internet comments
20:39:37  <Clockworker_> hahahaha
20:40:08  <Wolf01> pff, items ordered via internet from Netherlands or Germany usually arrive in 2-3 days here in Italy, if we order something from a near city it takes 5-7 days
20:41:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, exactly. it's almost unheard of to wait for a packet for more than 3 work days
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20:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i had ordered something at 3AM, and it came that same evening
20:44:15  <Wolf01> that happens with amazon, and if it doesn't arrive in 5 working days and you complain, they'll send it again... then the first one arrives 2 months after :D
20:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause> it wasn't even something like that, it was a small shop that listed their stuff on ebay
20:45:30  <glx> highly depends on who delivers here
20:45:59  <Eddi|zuHause> was probably with DHL, not sure
20:47:00  <Wolf01> we have lots of services, BRT, UPS, DHL... the problems come when they use SDA (which is a company related to the italian mail)
20:47:20  <Wolf01> UPS and DHL are very reliable
20:47:23  <glx> hehe looks like chronopost
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20:49:28  <Wolf01> BRT usually damages the boxes, deliver the wrong box, or don't like to ring your bell if you live on a flat
20:51:27  <Wolf01> they had a good service too, but they are employing mainly african people now which usually don't even know italian, it seem the only requirement they need is a driving license :(
20:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause> so, turns out i know nothing even about the most trivial conventions of OSX
20:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i type "su -" followed by the root password, and it just says "Sorry."
20:52:36  <^Spike^> you don't know how to handle or live with the almighty powers of root
20:52:41  <^Spike^> how dare you even think of it
20:52:45  <^Spike^> (how OSX goes :))
20:53:20  <Wolf01> you need to enable the root account first
20:53:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. but it says that AFTER i type in the password
20:54:18  <Wolf01> because usually you shouldn't need to fiddle with things which require root privileges
20:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i was looking for something like lspci
20:56:40  <glx> how silly to want to look at the hardware details
20:57:16  <glx> it's a mac not a standard computer ;)
20:57:24  <Wolf01> don't need to look outside the walled garden
20:58:02  <^Spike^> you don't need to know it has underpowered hw in it you shouldn't even think of it, it's all top of the bottom shelf :)
20:58:42  <Wolf01> "underpowered"... the only underpowered hw in a mac is the video card
20:59:04  <^Spike^> they just know how to code the OS to perform perfectly on the hw it has
20:59:38  <^Spike^> because they only have to make sure it works for 1 set of it and not al the 5000^2 combo's other sw vendors need to deal with
20:59:40  <Wolf01> yes, with windows you can run win10 twice and a game with the same hardware and a good video card
21:00:44  <Wolf01> where I used to work they are running osx on some 300€ hackintosh now
21:00:54  <^Spike^> hehe
21:02:44  <Wolf01> so it's like "put loads of ram and a good CPU to let the users run many apps and tasks, video? no, we don't need games, rendering a Pixar movie can be done by the cpu in 7 days"
21:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause> so, how do i launch something from a .pkg file from the console? it says something like "no plist file"
21:06:38  <glx> it's not a .dmg ?
21:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause> no
21:06:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but it contains a plist file
21:07:05  <Wolf01> I think you have to extract it
21:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i can cd into it, so it's probably a directory
21:08:27  <Wolf01> it's like .zip, you can browse it and open the files, but I think only the UI extract the entire content in a temp folder and then runs your file
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21:54:13  <Samu> all i know about macs is that they were good for games in the 80's or so
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22:27:41  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:17:19  <drac_boy> hi
23:24:13  <Samu> hi
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23:26:22  <Samu> OpenTTD\scripts - what are these scripts located in this folder called? server scripts? game scripts?
23:30:34  <Samu> I need help to create a script that can execute the 'startai' console command when an AI company goes bankrupt, to always have 15 AIs running and overcome the limitation of 14.
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