Log for #openttd on 2nd April 2016:
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06:02:33  <andythenorth> bah
06:25:49  <andythenorth> checksums don’t match for 1.6.0
06:26:58  <andythenorth> nvm, EBKAC
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06:57:25  <andythenorth> lo Alberth
06:57:35  <Alberth> hi hi
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07:24:56  <Wolf01> o/
07:29:10  <Alberth> o/
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07:35:58  <Wolf01> mmmh my phone is downloading something... uses full bandwidth and did it for the entire night
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07:42:44  * andythenorth plays FIRS Arctic Basic economy
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08:39:20  <frosch123> "no fish in firs", "where is 1.6.0 when firs is there" and "child's patch pack" <- the forum is on fire :)
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09:04:50  <andythenorth> lawks indeed
09:04:59  <andythenorth> makes it all worthwhile eh? :P
09:15:10  * andythenorth had to be a better person about Leif’s post
09:15:26  <andythenorth> if that had been written by an English person, it would read as fighting talk
09:15:28  <andythenorth> highly offensive
09:16:06  <andythenorth> I am going to assume that non-English speaker’s don’t understand how polite grievance is a code for aggression in native UK English :P
09:16:13  <andythenorth> speakers *
09:18:24  <andythenorth> blah blah blah blah andythenorth
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10:01:15  <Samu> hi
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10:56:11  <Eddi|zuHause> no matter how often i bag tt-forums to "remember me", it never does :/
10:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause> hey. there's a sane suggestion. how did that happen?
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11:04:24  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: does forums randomly bin your auth cookie, or do you never get remembered ever?
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11:08:25  <Eddi|zuHause> ...
11:08:53  <Samu> I'm lost
11:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it's more like "randomly" rather than "never"
11:08:57  <Samu> I don't know what to do
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11:10:21  <Alberth> moin
11:10:47  <Samu> Alberth: guide me , im completely lost
11:10:53  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: my cookie gets binned for no obvious reason
11:11:01  <andythenorth> it doesn’t look like time-based expiry
11:11:02  <Samu> i am working on the river sprites at the moment
11:11:08  <Alberth> second door on the left, I think
11:11:09  <andythenorth> might be due to network change, but that seems odd
11:11:17  <andythenorth> Samu: go north
11:11:19  <andythenorth> there is a cat here
11:11:23  <andythenorth> the cat is smiling
11:11:28  <andythenorth> there is cheese next to the cat
11:11:46  <Alberth> and you lost a mouse?
11:11:46  <Eddi|zuHause> > pet cat
11:12:16  <andythenorth> there are some mouse bones behind the cat
11:12:22  <andythenorth> the cat purrs
11:12:43  <Eddi|zuHause> > pet cat
11:12:43  <Samu> eh, i got a cat on my lap
11:12:50  <Samu> what a coincidence
11:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid that "go west" results in "you have died of dysentery"
11:15:37  <Samu> i have in hands 2 projects
11:15:58  <Samu> one is the max no competitors the other is the missing river sprites
11:15:58  <Eddi|zuHause> and no, it has nothing to do with network changes
11:17:14  <Samu> currently I'm focused on the 2nd project: i'm trying to know what I need to do to have the sprites that supermop gave me, displayed in-game, but this is too confusing
11:20:00  <Samu> the code, and that means, openttd code, is not prepared to display them sprites, no matter what gfx i load, so i got to code openttd as well as opengfx in tandem
11:20:16  <andythenorth> yes
11:20:27  <Samu> what do i have to do first?
11:20:33  <andythenorth> I would start by coding the openttd side
11:20:36  <andythenorth> and use ‘wrong’ sprites
11:20:50  <andythenorth> get the drawing figured out, then swap the correct sprites in later
11:36:12  * andythenorth ponders a pax production factor
11:36:23  <andythenorth> which is tied to number of destinations in the local linkgraph
11:41:36  <Alberth> moving pax? :)
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11:42:46  <andythenorth> it would be _really_ bad for small villages :P
11:43:00  <andythenorth> it would need some kind of inverse scale by population
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11:44:10  * andythenorth finds cdist is a disincentive to joining pax networks
11:44:16  <andythenorth> which seems a bit sad :)
11:47:14  <Alberth> all those millions you're not going to get :)
11:48:11  <andythenorth> I don’t like flooded stations
11:48:49  <andythenorth> not that my suggestion solves that :P
11:58:27  <Alberth> moar capacity is the only solution there :p
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12:08:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: all these production factor ideas have already been tried and dismissed
12:10:03  <Eddi|zuHause> if your stations are too crowded, you can try bumping the distance influence, so people take shorter trips
12:11:46  <argoneus> good morning train friends
12:11:49  <argoneus> who /aceattorney/ here
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12:13:00  <Eddi|zuHause> you always talk in such riddles...
12:13:30  <Kilo> Ive just set up my own dedicated server, and want to be able to give a player/ company money, is that possible through the console or editing of the save?
12:13:59  <Eddi|zuHause> no, giving money out of thin air is only available through a GameScript
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12:14:42  <Eddi|zuHause> man good that we talked about that.
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12:15:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (that was probably a terrible translation)
12:16:03  <TresKilo> I've set up me own dedicated server, I'm wondering if I can give a company money through the console or through editing of the save file? Is it possible??
12:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no, giving money out of thin air is only available through a GameScript
12:17:16  <TresKilo> Where might i find more bout GameScripts?
12:17:28  <Eddi|zuHause> in the forum
12:17:42  <Alberth> wiki too
12:17:46  <TresKilo> Danke!
12:18:30  <Alberth>
12:19:08  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: distance influence has to be 0 if you wish to use cdist for freight
12:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, there's your problem.
12:19:44  <andythenorth> isn’t it just
12:20:36  <Alberth> can be a bit more than 0 too :)
12:21:00  <Alberth> never actually tried using it that low :)
12:21:53  <andythenorth> splitting more cdist settings has been talked about before
12:21:58  <andythenorth> but maybe that is the one to split
12:22:35  <Alberth> mail becomes a puzzle then?
12:23:57  <andythenorth> because mail is produced in lower quantities, I find there’s less of a problem
12:24:48  <Alberth> hmm, nobody is playing large post offices :p
12:25:16  <Alberth> although it's likely much like pax
12:28:24  * andythenorth plays NARS 2 for larks
12:28:33  <andythenorth> so many new engines 1950-1960
12:28:33  <andythenorth> :P
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12:35:49  <TresKilo> Sorry again, i have no idea where to start with making a gamescript to add money to a player/ company, any ideas?
12:38:10  <Eddi|zuHause> somebody might already have done something like this.
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13:40:20  <uij2> is there an easy way to check when vehicles or technologies will be available inside the game?
13:40:50  <andythenorth> no
13:40:56  <andythenorth> date cheat? o_O
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13:41:02  <drac_boy> hi
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13:43:51  <drac_boy> still got same old internet issues?
13:44:27  <Alberth> you already get nice preview test options by the manufacturers
13:44:50  <sim-al2> Yeah, AT&T sucks
13:45:23  <sim-al2> But Comcast doesn't sound good either
13:46:05  <drac_boy> well both are effing monopolistic ... what can you say? :-/
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13:46:16  <drac_boy> that aside hows you tho?
13:46:24  <sim-al2> I'm good
13:49:10  <drac_boy> doing ok here..just trying to find some stations :)
13:56:22  <drac_boy> almost done finding the photos I'm needing tho heh
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13:59:04  <drac_boy> btw would you feel if you were sitting in the cupola of a caboose on the tail of freight train and actually seeing your train's locomotive up front through the rear window? :)
13:59:36  <drac_boy> apparently d&rgw had one curve that almost went back onto top of itself and one photographer riding with the brakeman managed to catch such a photo :->
14:00:27  <sim-al2> Not a small bit of curvature there
14:01:29  <andythenorth> theachapi
14:03:37  <drac_boy> andythenorth maybe but that one actually crosses itself tho
14:04:53  <drac_boy> anyway back to a bit more stations for me here :->
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14:10:42  <drac_boy> interesting gathering of post buses :)
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14:24:49  <sim-al2> Brb getting my train out of the park spot:
14:25:56  <sim-al2> *parking lot
14:28:24  <drac_boy> heh I always wondered about these particular trains that have just 1-3 bilevel in the middle of otherwise-conventional wagons
14:36:50  <sim-al2> They're basically first class (green car is the name used) for passengers taking longer journeys on these trains
14:37:17  <andythenorth> stupid city is all fountains
14:37:37  <Samu> what is 1 << 0, 1 << 1, 1 << 2?
14:38:03  <sim-al2> Unlike the inner city lines, the suburban trains make long journeys, up to 200 km per run if you count the trains that run through the Ueno-Toyko line to the other side of the city
14:38:32  <drac_boy> hmm I see
14:38:35  <Samu> nevermind, i think i know what it is
14:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that happens usually when no other building is available for a zone
14:42:08  * drac_boy still likes the "love trains" in japan :)
14:42:27  <andythenorth> this is default subarctic, no town grf, no patch
14:42:30  <andythenorth> 1964
14:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's no reason why the statement would be invalid
14:51:53  <Flygon> drac_boy needs more violin in his life
14:53:40  <Flygon> :D
14:53:44  <Flygon> Evenin'
14:54:19  * drac_boy wonders if I should twack flygon with a loose guitar string? :)
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14:55:45  <Flygon> drac_boy: Wrong track.
15:05:01  <drac_boy> anyway you all have fun, I'm going off for now
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15:05:33  <andythenorth> hmm
15:05:46  <andythenorth> Silicon Valley will beat me again :)
15:07:22  <andythenorth> 20 years, 5 industries
15:08:32  <Alberth> no basecostmod?
15:09:00  <Alberth> 5 industries sounds somewhat expensive :)
15:10:25  <frosch123> didn't firs feature quite cheap ones?
15:16:10  <andythenorth> approximately
15:16:14  <andythenorth> but not these ones
15:16:19  <andythenorth> and no basecostmod :D
15:16:26  <andythenorth> maybe that’s a FIRS parameter :P
15:17:58  * andythenorth tries to patch roads some more
15:18:03  <frosch123> we need to increase the maximum newgrf count in a game to 4096
15:18:16  <andythenorth> yes, I’ve been thinking about that for some time
15:18:28  <andythenorth> I wondered about making one newgrf per vehicle
15:18:33  <andythenorth> the compile times would be wonderful
15:19:00  <frosch123> we also need regular expression selection to add newgrfs to a game
15:19:17  <andythenorth> xml
15:20:25  <andythenorth> so I can prevent road vehicles entering a tile with incompatible subtype
15:20:26  <andythenorth> but not trams
15:20:38  <andythenorth> and once the tram is in the tile, it’s stuck, goes round in circles
15:21:13  <andythenorth> I have read the code for tram reversing and single bit tiles, but am none the wiser about what causes this problem
15:22:23  <frosch123> try roadveh_cmd.cpp:1222
15:22:49  <andythenorth> thanks
15:25:18  <andythenorth> so it’s trying to turn round, but entering the next tile?
15:25:21  <andythenorth> then is stuck there
15:26:06  <andythenorth> those nested ‘ifs’ are quite unpleasant :D
15:33:16  <andythenorth> this code is weird
15:33:34  <andythenorth> there is a huge if condition around a comment
15:33:57  <frosch123> it's about trams not getting stuck :)
15:34:03  <andythenorth> yeah
15:34:06  <frosch123> trams cannot reverse on a dead end
15:34:11  <andythenorth> so there’s a big ‘do nothing’ case
15:34:14  <andythenorth> and two other cases
15:34:17  <frosch123> if the player can fix it, it is blamed on the player
15:34:25  <frosch123> if the next tile is blocked, ottd fixes it for the player
15:34:34  <andythenorth> I’m not an 80 char pedant, but I only have a 13” screen, so this is hard to read :)
15:35:04  <frosch123> change your tab width?
15:35:43  <andythenorth> nah, I’ll just grumble about it
15:35:52  <Eddi|zuHause> hit the button for auto-linebreaks?
15:35:56  <andythenorth> so I need to stop or reverse the tram within same tile
15:36:26  <andythenorth> so the first case
15:36:27  <andythenorth> GetRoadBits(tile, ROADTYPE_TRAM)) != ROAD_NONE
15:36:30  <andythenorth> will be true
15:36:35  <andythenorth> but the subtype is incompatible
15:36:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the point was to just let the tram be stuck without turning around
15:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> then add the subtype check to this condition
15:37:17  <andythenorth> let’s see
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15:41:34  <andythenorth> solved :D
15:42:50  <frosch123> i also found src/pathfinder/npf/npf.cpp:713 while grepping
15:42:55  <frosch123> so, if you care about npf :)
15:44:13  <andythenorth> blearch :)
15:47:04  <andythenorth> if I was smart, there’d be some way to AND the roadbits with (vehicle subtype == tile subtype)
15:47:16  <andythenorth> per tram or road vehicle also
15:47:37  <andythenorth> currently my plan is to write rather long if statements :P
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15:50:06  <andythenorth> current state of my patch
15:50:19  <andythenorth> I can’t put this in forums for obvious reasons
15:50:41  <frosch123> "i want a windows binary"?
15:51:26  <andythenorth> “it doesn’t fix overtaking"
15:51:58  <frosch123> trolley busses cannot overtake?
15:52:02  <andythenorth> ha ha ha
15:52:23  <andythenorth> I suppose I should fake the subtype into the vehicle next
15:52:31  <andythenorth> then eventually connect it to newgrf
15:52:34  <andythenorth> then extend newgrf spec
15:52:42  <andythenorth> patch nmlc, grfcodec, maybe renum
15:52:46  <andythenorth> update the wiki
15:52:55  <andythenorth> then I can make a test grf :P
15:53:09  <frosch123> i dropped renum :)
15:53:12  <andythenorth> ha
15:53:28  * andythenorth wonders
15:53:42  <andythenorth> grfcodec has to remain supported, if only for decompiling case, and stations
15:54:01  <andythenorth> can’t be helped
15:54:13  <frosch123> grfcodec needs to remain for openttd.grf :)
15:54:30  <frosch123> otherwise you get circular dependencies between nml and ottd
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15:54:37  <andythenorth> lawks
15:54:39  <frosch123> but renum is useless
15:54:54  <andythenorth> if we change nothing, grfcodec does not need maintaining :D
15:55:20  <frosch123> grfcodec never needs maintaining
15:56:02  * andythenorth ponders
15:56:15  <andythenorth> so NotRoadTypes needs a ‘convert’ tool, otherwise it will suck to use
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15:58:15  <andythenorth> or I could try and patch shunting? o_O
15:58:25  <andythenorth> apparently, it’s the new feature request that won’t die
15:58:29  <frosch123> what do you want to convert?
15:58:34  <andythenorth> between subtypes
15:58:57  <andythenorth> I wondered about overbuild, but I think it’s prone to user error
15:59:20  <andythenorth> I assumed I would look at rail convert tool for ideas
15:59:21  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27533 /trunk/bin/baseset (orig_dos.obg orig_win.obg) (2016-04-02 17:59:14 +0200 )
15:59:22  <DorpsGek> -Update: Baseset translations
16:00:22  <Snail> hey don’t touch grfcodec :p
16:01:07  <Snail> frosch123: why did you drop renum?
16:02:04  <Snail> renum is very useful
 and in the current state of things, it gives me lots of false alarms
16:02:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27534 trunk/src/newgrf_commons.h (2016-04-02 18:02:22 +0200 )
16:02:29  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6435]: [NewGRF] Station spritelayouts did not accept the var10 flag for the palette.
16:02:56  <andythenorth> when I used renum, I had a substantial number of error suppression flags
16:03:29  <frosch123> Snail: it's not useful to me, it's only work
16:04:27  <andythenorth> Snail: take over as maintainer? o_O
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16:13:24  <Snail> heh. I don’t know c++
16:13:32  <andythenorth> neither do I
16:13:44  <Snail> I guess it’s needed to mantain nforenum?
16:13:54  <andythenorth> I am not sure, it might be ASM or something, no idea
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16:14:40  <andythenorth> I don’t know c++ either, but I have got a game running here with 2 types of road and 3 types of tram track
16:14:42  <andythenorth> so eh?
16:14:56  <Snail> nice
16:15:12  <Snail> btw I’d be one more person who would love the shunting feature :D
16:16:27  <andythenorth> never ever ever happening in the current game
16:16:34  <andythenorth> not even possible conceptually
16:17:24  <andythenorth> for one thing, too many newgrfs that can do stuff like change capacity subject to lead engine of consist
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16:17:49  <Snail> heh
16:17:53  <Snail> including me :p
16:18:02  <Snail> I mean including my newgrf
16:18:09  <Snail> that’s a good pont
16:18:12  <Snail> *point
16:21:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the solution for that is simple, all these properties will only regard the "fixed" chain that can't be taken apart by shunting (i.e. single wagons, mostly), and don't have access to the parts that are dynamically attached or detached
16:22:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that'll utterly break stuff like 2ccset's "MU wagons"
16:23:00  <Snail> but then it means I won’t be able to change a vehicle’s properties according to the engine type
16:23:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:23:35  <Alberth> just like real life :p
16:23:47  <Eddi|zuHause> (it's a terrible idea anyway)
16:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause> but you'd still get the choice: have a fixed engine and can access it, or have a dynamic engine and not access it
16:26:12  <Snail> hehe, well my set is designed around changing the vehicles’ properties according to the engine
16:26:29  <Snail> so shunting won’t work for me anyway
16:28:19  <Snail> the alternative is to define 17,000 IDs for each vehicle type :p
16:28:43  <frosch123> i had a dream: someone made a patch that ships cannot drive through each other and need bays at dock. and then everyone noticed that that makes ships even more useless for playing
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16:29:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i think someone made that patch already :p
16:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> imho, just the bays would be enough. like airplanes
16:30:32  <andythenorth> peter1138 has a patch for that
16:30:35  <Samu> i can't understand this function
16:30:38  <andythenorth> 3 stops at each dock
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16:30:56  <andythenorth> shall we delete ships?
16:31:01  <Samu>  DrawWaterSprite(base, offset, feature, tile);
16:31:23  <Eddi|zuHause> can't. compatibility with old savegames forbids it.
16:31:34  <andythenorth> well we could make them non-available in the global toolbar
16:31:48  <Eddi|zuHause> what would that solve?
16:31:57  <Alberth> you can look but not touch :)
16:32:05  <andythenorth> removes ships
16:32:07  <andythenorth> ships are silly
16:32:15  <andythenorth> and I don’t want to draw them anymore :x
16:32:33  <Eddi|zuHause> trains are silly
16:32:39  <Eddi|zuHause> road vehicles are silly
16:32:50  <Eddi|zuHause> reimplement the game from scratch, only offer pipes
16:33:06  <Samu> i dont understand these functions, calling other functions that call templates and functions and objects... arf... I don't think i can do this alone
16:33:19  * andythenorth considers a pipes patch
16:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> you suffer from ideacreep
16:33:59  <Eddi|zuHause> you start more projects than you can finish, then complain that you never finish projects
16:34:05  <Samu> and the offset parameters are based out of something
16:34:21  <Samu> based on something that are also based on their own offsets... why
16:34:27  <Samu> I cannot follow this
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16:35:45  <Samu> the something, from what I can tell, is the picture that it's going to draw
16:36:15  <Samu> but the way the functions are arranged to find out what to draw... it's too complex for me
16:36:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what is the correct number of projects to start? o_O
16:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that is impossible to answer
16:37:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be more than one, so you can pause a project when you run into a dead end, and continue it later with a fresh head
16:37:53  <andythenorth> find something from logs where I complain I didn’t finish yet? o_O
16:38:02  <andythenorth> rather than just general complaining
16:38:27  <Eddi|zuHause> for like half a year now you complain that you won't finish FIRS in time
16:39:09  <andythenorth> fortunately April 1st happens at a set time, regardless of my complaining :D
16:40:00  <Samu> why are there offsets for offsets? makes it much harder for me to follow intellisense
16:42:30  <Samu> what is a scope?
16:43:21  <Samu> what is a callback
16:43:38  <Samu> nevermind, I better give up for today
16:45:01  <Samu> I'm stuck here
16:45:03  <Samu> 		case SLOPE_N: DrawWaterSprite(base, offset, feature, tile);
16:45:46  <andythenorth> found the def for DrawWaterSprite()?
16:46:02  <Samu> yes... it's pretty too
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16:47:02  <Samu> it gets an offset of itself, then DrawGroundSprite(base + offset, PAL_NONE);
16:47:19  <Samu> too much offsets, it's confusing, i don't know which offset is which
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16:48:54  <Samu> problem I have right now, is finding out what base or offset to get the correct image from
16:49:11  <Samu> at least I know what the feature and tile are
16:50:15  <Samu> feature is riveredges
16:50:32  <Samu> tile is the current tile I'm working on
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16:54:55  <Samu> this part is what's in there: if the slope is flat and no adjacent tiles are watertiles, draw the edges of the river that are suitable for flat tiles
16:56:15  <Samu> the part i'm trying to "combine" is: if the slope is like SLOPE_N, top corner raised, and no adjacent tiles are watertiles, draw the edges of the river that are suitable for this slope
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16:57:37  <Samu> i just have no idea how to get to that drawing
16:57:40  <andythenorth> I haven’t looked, but the offset is _probably_ either an x/y/z direction offset, or it’s an offset from a sprite number, probably to get the correct tile for the slope
16:58:20  <Samu> the DrawWaterSprite(base, offset.... what is the base? what is the offset?
16:59:02  <Samu> and this is where I am lost, I cannot follow up to the origin of that offset
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16:59:54  <andythenorth> find the caller
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17:01:37  <TresKilo> I asked earlier about adding money to a multiplayer company through GameScripts or world save modification (hosted on my server) - There ain't a way to do it through the console. I could not find any pre-written scripts on the forum that do what I would like, anyone have any advice or expertise that they could lend??
17:11:54  <frosch123> [18:30] <Eddi|zuHause> imho, just the bays would be enough. like airplanes <- enough to make ships useless? :p
17:12:30  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: enough to pick the right ship out of the 50 that stack on "full load" orders at the dock...
17:12:59  <frosch123> TresKilo:
17:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically impossible to make a proper hub for ships currently
17:13:08  <Samu> if (HasBit(_water_feature[feature].callback_mask, CBM_CANAL_SPRITE_OFFSET)) . this thing is returning false :( it should return true
17:13:15  <Samu> grr
17:14:25  <Samu> feature in this case is = CF_RIVER_EDGE (6)
17:14:46  <Samu> there are river edges, why does it return false?
17:14:51  <Samu> I really don't get this
17:15:58  <andythenorth> bays, but multidock
17:16:15  <andythenorth> one ship per dock, to be mean
17:16:33  <andythenorth> the game is most interesting when routing in confined spaces
17:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause> of course, it's not done by just putting a restriction in. you also need to provide tools to handle the restriction
17:18:52  <Eddi|zuHause> like, i hate airports because there is no way to affect holding patterns and landing priorities
17:19:57  * andythenorth rarely uses airports with that many plays
17:20:01  <andythenorth> plays? planes :P
17:22:51  <TresKilo> frosch123: Thanks for the link! Any help with use of it??
17:23:55  <Samu> SpriteID 7483 - where do I get a list of SpriteIDs? I wanna see what image is this
17:31:43  <frosch123> Samu: sprite alginer
17:32:02  <frosch123> TresKilo:
17:32:09  <andythenorth> Samu: in-game sprite aligner
17:32:18  <andythenorth> 7843 is a water rapids tile
17:32:31  <andythenorth> 7483 *
17:32:42  <Samu> in-game sprie aligner? what's that?
17:33:29  <Samu> it's a rapids tile and nor a river edge tile?
17:33:36  <Samu> I was expecting an edge
17:33:39  <andythenorth>
17:33:49  <andythenorth> specifically
17:34:16  <TresKilo> frosch123: Nich, Ill check it out
17:34:55  <Samu> wow, that would come useful
17:34:56  <Samu> ty
17:35:10  <andythenorth> it is useful :D
17:37:48  <andythenorth> 10 days left to beat SV
17:37:50  <andythenorth> nah
17:38:29  <andythenorth> frosch123 beat me again :P
17:39:05  <frosch123> seems to be your favorite outcome
17:39:49  <andythenorth> if it was easy to win, it would get boring
17:40:06  <andythenorth> losing causes ‘play again’, as long as it’s not over-powered loss :P
17:40:15  <andythenorth> ‘play again’ is the long-term meta-game here, no?
17:40:30  <frosch123> how many industries did you build?
17:41:17  <andythenorth> 3 out of 5
17:41:22  <andythenorth> I might get silver
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17:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i need a new game to play. all the old games are either annoying or boring
17:46:19  <andythenorth> have you tried OpenTTD?
17:46:20  <andythenorth> o_O
17:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i fear that will immediately go in the "annoying" category
17:47:26  <andythenorth> eh, well
17:47:29  <andythenorth> it’s not a bad game
17:47:31  <andythenorth> as games go
17:47:44  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: <- have fun
18:00:23  <Alberth>  more games :)
18:00:34  <TresKilo> frosch123: So I've had a look but still have no idea where to even start with doing the task; All I know is that at some point I will need to use the GSCompany::ChangeBankBalance function - Is is already available to use? And where would I put it inside the main??
18:02:14  <frosch123> TresKilo: <- maybe that helps you
18:02:25  <frosch123> otherwise read some general tutorial about programming
18:05:32  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause:
18:05:38  <andythenorth> ^ like cdist, but abstract
18:06:08  <andythenorth> I know multiple people who got addicted, then dropped it because it causes weird dreams and agitated sleep :)
18:06:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i considered that, but not feeling it right now...
18:07:07  <andythenorth> Euro Truck Simulator? o_O
18:07:15  <andythenorth> v1 not v2
18:07:22  <andythenorth> v2 falls into crappy uncanny valley territory wrt graphics
18:07:48  * andythenorth wonders if there’s a modern equivalent of Lemmings
18:08:34  <andythenorth> ho, this looks good, from Alberth’s site
18:08:51  <frosch123> andythenorth: which type of truck simulator player are you? reckless speeding or do you use the blinker?
18:08:55  <andythenorth> depends
18:09:03  <andythenorth> initially I was careful
18:09:10  <andythenorth> then I found how to edit the savegame for money :P
18:09:33  <andythenorth> also by total fluke, I managed to get past the road-edge once, and into the woods
18:09:51  <andythenorth> where I was able to drive up a mountain, and off into the deep blue nothing
18:10:09  <Alberth>  this looks familiar-ish :p
18:11:34  <andythenorth> adding a road subtype to roadvehicles looks deceptively easy
18:11:50  <andythenorth> I just declare it in struct RoadVehicle ?
18:12:42  <TresKilo> Alright then, Ill try doing that later; But now, how can I load a single player save into the server??
18:15:57  <frosch123> how do you access the server?
18:16:45  <_johannes> Alberth: I just found the bug with the pathfinder :P I did a search and then a search with the train turned around... in between, however, you have to instantiate a new pathfinder variable, I used the one of the previous search
18:17:30  <_johannes> I thought instantiation would not matter at all since instantiation was only used for metaprogramming inside YAPF...
18:17:30  <Alberth> subtle problem :)
18:17:40  <TresKilo> frosch123: Through PuTTY, SSH and SFTP
18:17:46  <Alberth> great that you found it
18:17:48  <_johannes> fixed after only 6 days :D
18:18:38  <_johannes> they often do things like Yapf() without actually instantiating anything...
18:18:50  <_johannes> for the pathfinder, one needs to be more careful
18:19:06  <frosch123> TresKilo: copy you save to the server into the savegame directory
18:19:21  <frosch123> start the server with -g <savegame name>
18:19:31  <frosch123> or set up rcon, and use rcon execute "load" commands
18:20:10  <frosch123>
18:20:31  <TresKilo> frosch123: Nice! Just sorting out my GRFs then it should work!!
18:27:05  <Samu> andythenorth: this is really helpful, I am already getting somewhere
18:27:14  <Samu> erm, finally* typo
18:27:26  <andythenorth> :)
18:28:57  <Samu> apparently the compositing of river edges and their corners won't combine that well, need moar sprites
18:29:04  <Samu> :(
18:30:44  <Samu> that green
18:31:15  <Samu> need different tones of green, depending the direction the edge is towards
18:31:49  <andythenorth> yes
18:32:19  <andythenorth> if you make this work, I will then draw new sprites for it to match the original TTD base set
18:32:37  <Samu> how to i "raise" the edge corner, the offset thing
18:33:10  <Samu> on a flat tile, the north corner is set into one place, on a tile with SLOPE_N, I want that corner to go "up"
18:33:30  <Samu> do you understand what I mean?
18:34:08  <TresKilo> frosch123: It worked
18:34:14  <TresKilo> Thanks
18:34:18  <Samu> i think it's the z coordinates
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18:35:47  <_johannes> can a train have the unit number "0" ? can there be even multiple such trains?
18:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> wagon chains without engine in the depot?
18:36:18  <frosch123> only real chains have a unitnumber
18:37:00  <_johannes> ah of course, thanks!
18:38:38  <Samu> think i discovered it, let me try
18:38:41  <Samu> brb
18:42:23  <frosch123> <- how evil :p
18:42:29  <frosch123> lang_sync errors on empty files :)
18:43:27  <Samu> yeah, i need a combination of sprites 7538 with 7531 with the green tones similar to the north corner of sprite 3989
18:43:33  <Eddi|zuHause> what are we looking at?
18:44:38  <Samu> I am looking at river edges, the north corner sprites for a SLOPE_N tile
18:44:43  <frosch123> <- Alberth: i guess just ignoring them is enough?
18:45:24  <frosch123> hmm, could print a message
18:45:35  <Alberth> I wonder how that happens :)
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18:49:01  <Alberth> frosch123:  ah, it's utf-8 already. You could run rstip() on it, for trailing white-space before checking for empty, but otherwise, looks ok
18:49:16  <Alberth> *rstrip()
18:50:04  <Compu> can someone help me figure out what file im missing or any typos i made in here? heres the files window showing all the files
18:50:27  <Alberth> although it's unlikely people make empty files with just a line whitespace :p
18:51:09  <frosch123> haha, an undertale ottd music set :)
18:51:23  <Compu> heres a list of all the md5sums but i cant figure out where i messed up
18:51:41  <Compu> frosch123: with mlp and others stuff too
18:51:46  <frosch123> i lacks "spaghetti" in the description
18:51:48  <Compu> mostly mlp
18:51:56  <Compu> its not only undertale
18:52:11  <Compu> its just a bunch of music i wanna be able to play in game
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18:59:22  <Compu> i figured it out
18:59:31  <Compu> CANYON.mid needed to be CANYON.MID
19:01:05  <Compu> frosch123: how do i pack this up for others to easily put into openttd?
19:01:39  <Eddi|zuHause> canyon.mid is a name i haven't heard in a looong time
19:01:43  <planetmaker> moin
19:01:51  <andythenorth> lo planetmaker
19:02:17  <frosch123> Compu: put in into a directory, and then tar it all up. use tar without compression
19:02:21  *** Guest10138 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:02:33  <Compu> easy enough
19:02:49  <Compu> should it be in a directory inside the .tar file or should all the files be at root level?
19:02:57  <frosch123> inside a directory
19:03:02  <Compu> alright
19:03:07  <frosch123> ideally the directory contains some kind of version number
19:03:13  <Compu> i'll just use file roller
19:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it is common practice that a tar contains a directory
19:03:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (unless it contains only a single file)
19:05:29  <Compu> done
19:05:32  <Compu> now what
19:06:40  <Compu> any way i can add it to the openttd online content thingy frosch123?
19:07:46  <frosch123> likely you can't due to copyright reasons
19:11:13  <Compu> aww
19:12:06  <Compu> frosch123: well here anyways
19:12:20  <Compu> how do people install it from a tar file?
19:17:12  <Alberth> just drop the file at the right spot, openttd understands tar files
19:17:57  <Compu> ah
19:18:05  <Compu> Alberth: so whats the right spot
19:19:21  <Alberth> depends on what operating system you have, it's all explained in detail in the readme of the program
19:20:33  <Alberth>
19:21:00  <Compu> Alberth: u mean somewhere in the dotdir?
19:22:10  <Alberth> you tried reading?
19:22:48  <Alberth> I don't know all the places of all the computer systems just like that
19:23:37  <Alberth> not to mention I don't know how you installed it
19:23:53  <Alberth> or what access rights you have or not have, and why
19:24:21  <Alberth> it's literally all described in detail
19:25:56  <Compu> it says music says cant just be put in the directory as a tar file
19:26:12  <Compu> cuz the files need to be read by an external application
19:26:39  <Samu> interesting, sprite 7423 image is equal to 7483, but 7423 is for rivers placed at sea level with nearby shores
19:26:56  <Samu> it looks bad
19:31:43  <Samu> rivers at sea level with nearby shores, hmm... it doesn't appear to be computing the correct edges... i think it could
19:32:35  <Samu> still i better not touch this part of the code, it's not what I should focus
19:32:52  <planetmaker> depends a bit which rivers you use, Samu. There's a lot of NewGRF code involved in showing the right sprite(s) for river tiles
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20:05:30  <frosch123> Compu: a, true, music is the only type that does not work in tar :p
20:05:43  <frosch123> so, i guess just zip it and let people extract it to the baseset folder
20:05:48  <Compu> bluh
20:05:56  <Compu> i already tarred it, good nuf
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20:35:57  <andythenorth> hmm
20:36:06  <andythenorth> Arctic Basic needs more sources of chemicals
20:36:12  <andythenorth> or more oil on this map :P
20:36:14  <andythenorth> one of those
20:37:21  <Alberth> gn
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20:52:07  <frosch123> fish-oil obviously
20:55:58  <FLHerne> Whaling grounds?
20:57:07  <frosch123> they could get the ONLY_DECREASE industry production behaviour
21:00:07  <FLHerne> Would look even sillier than the fishing grounds, though
21:00:42  <FLHerne> Needs some sort of area-covering industry
21:01:08  <FLHerne> Farms could be like that, too
21:01:12  <frosch123> if not everyone would play with disasters disabled, one could replace the submarine with moby dick or so
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21:09:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i  have ever seen the submarine
21:11:14  <frosch123> i remember waiting for it once, after i read on the forums that you can trap it by raising land
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21:21:54  <Samu> how much is 0001 & 0011?
21:22:02  <Samu> or 1 & 3?
21:23:44  <Samu> it's 1?
21:31:26  <FLHerne> Yes
21:32:08  <FLHerne> 1 | 3 would be 3
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21:33:02  <Samu> sometimes 1 & 3 = true, some other times 1 & 3 = 1, how can I tell the difference :(
21:33:40  <Samu> how does the code know if it should get 1 or true?
21:34:30  <Samu> like in here: if (!(wa & 1))
21:34:30  <frosch123> weren't you the guy who said that C was a good programming language? :p
21:34:47  <Samu> switch (wa & 0x03)
21:34:59  <Samu> i am assuming wa = 1 at the moment
21:35:44  <Samu> if (!(1 & 1))
21:35:54  <Samu> = false?
21:36:07  <Samu> or = 1?
21:37:05  <Samu> = not 1
21:37:07  <FLHerne> Samu: 1 & 3 is always 1
21:37:47  <FLHerne> 0 is false, non-zero is true
21:38:17  <FLHerne> C didn't even have a boolean type until C99?
21:39:32  <Samu> there's some intelligent engineering logic being made in this function
21:39:39  <Samu> and i cant decipher
21:39:48  <Samu> let me get link
21:40:39  <FLHerne> Ah, reading the log a bit makes things clearer
21:41:18  <Samu>
21:41:25  <Samu> ok, starts there
21:41:47  <FLHerne> When you're testing the value of (something & n), what you're actually trying to do is test whether the corresponding bits are set
21:42:15  <FLHerne> i.e. you should completely ignore the actual numeric value, it's irrelevant
21:43:19  <FLHerne> << means 'shift left one bit' (i.e. double, but that's not important)
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21:46:20  <FLHerne> So lines 651->654 sets the lowest bit of wa if the SW tile is water, sets the second-lowest bit if the NW tile is,etc
21:47:22  <FLHerne> If the lowest four bits of wa are "0100" at line 655, only the northeast tile was water and the rest weren't
21:47:43  <FLHerne> If "1101", all but the NW tile were water
21:48:32  <FLHerne> "(wa & 1)" will be true iff the lowest bit of wa is 1, i.e. if the SW tile was water
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21:49:08  <FLHerne> Similarly (wa & 2) tests the second bit, (wa & 4) the third...
21:49:17  <FLHerne> Because 4 is 0100
21:49:54  <FLHerne> 3 is 0011, so (wa & 3) is only true if _both_ the lower bits are set
21:50:07  <FLHerne> i.e. both the SW and NW tiles are water
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21:52:20  <Samu> shift left one bit means doing 0001 would become 0010?
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21:52:42  <Wolf01> o/
21:53:24  <Wolf01> finally restored the functionality of vs2015... the update 2 broke it hard :|
21:53:41  <FLHerne> Samu: Yes
21:56:23  <FLHerne> Samu: And note the += on everything after the first line
21:56:36  <FLHerne> So it starts out as 000?
21:56:40  <FLHerne> Then 00??
21:56:44  <FLHerne> Then 0???
21:56:47  <FLHerne> Then ????
21:57:37  <FLHerne> Where each new ? is the return value of one of the IsWateredTile() calls
21:59:15  <Samu> the direction is reversed, or misleading
21:59:48  <FLHerne> Why?
22:00:25  <FLHerne> Left-pointing arrows, shifts the bits one bit to the left
22:00:51  <Samu> IsWateredTile(TILE_ADDXY(tile,  1,  0), DIR_NE it asks if the tile located at SW of the current tile has water being directed at NE
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22:03:19  <Samu> if it does, the current tile at 0, 0 will draw water at SW, at least it's what I understand
22:07:00  <Samu> and the bits are 0100
22:07:28  <Samu> wa = 0100
22:07:42  <FLHerne> Ah, sorry, looks like you're right
22:08:15  <Samu> okay, apparently I understood this first part, now the 2nd part, the corners
22:09:39  <Samu> corners are complicating my brains
22:12:15  <Samu> I want to add additional logic
22:12:29  <Samu> distinguish elevated corner to flat corner
22:12:47  <Samu> draw the correct image sprite depending on the corner that is currently raised
22:13:45  <Samu> taking the example of 0100
22:14:49  <Samu> water is drawed at SW, but what if the N corner is raised, or lowered, or flat?
22:15:02  <Samu> what if the S corner is raised, lowered or flat?
22:15:30  <Samu> what if the W corner is raised, lowered or flat? :(
22:16:25  <Samu> (don't know where to add this logic, even)
22:20:08  <FLHerne> That's where adding up all the bits _is_ useful
22:20:36  <FLHerne> 0001, 0010, 0011, ...
22:21:10  <Samu> oh :)
22:21:36  <FLHerne> So sprite (offset) 0 is "no corners [x]", 1 is "SW? corner [x]", 2 is "NW? corner [x]", 3 is "SW and NW corners [x]", ...
22:23:12  <FLHerne> If you have two relevant bitfields, shift one left by four bits and add it to the other, then you have a unique 8-bit value for every combination
22:23:34  <FLHerne> Although 256 different states sounds like too many for a lot of things
22:24:27  <Samu> count the steep slopes too
22:24:33  <Samu> :o
22:29:53  <Samu> 8 4 2 1 then shift 4 more stuff there?
22:30:31  <Samu> 9 12 6 3 8 4 2 1?
22:31:44  <Samu> 9 12 6 3 are the corners
22:31:56  <Samu> 8 4 2 1 are the ... meh, im confused already
22:32:11  <FLHerne> No, I have no idea what that was supposed to mean
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22:32:56  <FLHerne> Say 0011 are your water states
22:33:07  <FLHerne> And 1010 are your height states
22:34:21  <FLHerne> Then you can shift one lot four bits up, so that 10100011 represents the particular state where both of those states are true
22:35:46  <FLHerne> If you put your sprites in the right order, then the 164th sprite (index 163) can be the sprite for that state
22:39:51  <Samu> what about steep heights?
22:40:34  <Samu> need moar bits?
22:40:37  <FLHerne> Gets even worse?
22:40:39  <Samu> t.t
22:41:18  <FLHerne> How many different states do you actually care about?
22:41:32  <Samu> all slope combinations
22:41:41  <Samu> let me check
22:42:49  <Samu> 19, or 18 if I exclude SLOPE_FLAT
22:42:52  <FLHerne> Surely steep slopes just can't have water on them?
22:43:03  <Samu> they will, if i can code this right
22:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be plenty of ways to get water(falls) on steep slopes
22:50:48  <Samu> enum Slope ... all types are here, let me find this
22:51:53  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:53:03  <Samu>
22:53:54  <Samu> slope vs corner
22:54:00  <Samu> hmm, maybe i can reduce that number :8
22:55:39  <Samu> halftiles aren't needed for this
23:01:21  <Samu> it's 18
23:01:38  <Samu> that's 2 more bits?
23:02:09  <Samu> wondering if i can make it 16
23:03:31  <Samu> or if i can extrapolate bits
23:09:46  <Samu> must think
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