Log for #openttd on 27th April 2016:
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06:40:22  <V453000> when downloading shit from bananas, does bananas automatically zip the thing and then unzip it at the destination, or are .grf files sent directly?
06:56:23  <Supercheese> pretty sure it's the bundles that are sent
06:56:40  <Supercheese> not sure whether the .tar is sent directly or if it's unzipped though
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07:05:05  <Alberth> moin
07:07:29  <V453000> hi Alberth
07:07:42  <V453000> because the zip/tar should be smaller than the grf
07:07:55  <V453000> (s/should/is)
07:08:13  <Supercheese> .zip should, dunno about raw .tar though
07:08:17  <Alberth> likely, but theoretically not always true
07:08:33  <Alberth> plain .tar does no compression at all
07:08:44  <Supercheese> yeah didn't think so
07:08:49  <V453000> oh
07:08:50  <V453000> ok
07:08:51  <V453000> :d
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07:08:57  <Supercheese> have to .gz it
07:09:01  <Supercheese> or whatnot
07:09:12  <Alberth> it originates from "tape archive", ie a format to serialize directory structure into a sequential format to stream to tape
07:09:59  <Alberth> and since tapes are not 100% reliable, you don't want compression, since any bit error breaks the entire archive then
07:10:26  <Alberth> also, extracting a single file becomes a PITA :)
07:10:55  <Alberth> and in those days, tapes were waaaaay bigger than disks, who cares about compression :p
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07:59:52  <planetmaker> moin
08:05:54  <Alberth> hi hi
08:28:06  <monsted> Alberth: IBM 3592 Gen5 is 10 TB, so they still have an edge on capacity :)
08:28:36  <monsted> Oracle T10000D is "only" 8.5 TB
08:28:39  <Alberth> haha, fair enough :)
08:29:41  <monsted> also, nearly all tapes are typically compressed, they just do it in the drive instead of in software.
08:30:32  <monsted> sauce: i built our second StorageTek Powderhorn tape library and ran storage and backup for years :)
08:31:51  <monsted> and now i have 11,000 tapes to destroy, with an impressive capacity of 40 GB each.
08:31:57  <Alberth> at those sizes, compression makes sense :)
08:32:11  <Alberth> they also add error detection and correct data, I guess
08:33:03  <monsted> yes, and magnetic tape is some of the best archival grade media available. shelf life for a written tape is usually somewhere in the 50 year region.
08:34:31  <Alberth> in proper conditioned rooms :)
08:34:57  <Alberth> but indeed, I pulled data from a tape that was around a decade old without problems at all
08:35:40  <Alberth> and those were simply stored in a box in a closet in my room
08:35:42  <monsted> they have pretty good environmental specs, as long as it's not too humid.
08:36:11  <Alberth> just keep magnets away from them :p
08:36:14  <monsted> our cooling failed one summer and when i went to check things out, i left wet fingerprints on everything i touched. humidity was 100% :(
08:36:32  <Alberth> :(
08:38:56  <monsted> we're scrapping those libraries after 15 years of service. a bit of a sad day, especially because they've been replaced with much lower quality quantum libraries. these things were built using parts off boeing planes, because they stole a bunch of engineers from the 747 program.
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09:20:22  <Wolf01> o/
09:21:11  <Alberth> moin
09:21:27  <empezar> hello
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10:31:48  <Samu> hi
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11:07:16  <Samu_> i'm doing a retard test
11:08:00  <Samu_> i'm hosting a server and then trying to join it with 255 local clients
11:08:13  <Samu_> only 64 can enter
11:08:24  <Samu_> is this a limitation of windows or openttd?
11:09:59  <Samu_> - keks
11:11:32  <Samu_> The server didn't answer the request
11:11:35  <Samu_> is what it says
11:13:54  <Rubidium> there isn't a technical limit in openttd, but I'm finding a lot of evidence on the internet that different versions of Windows have different limits on concurrent incoming connections
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11:17:54  <Samu_> hmm interesting
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11:26:49  <Samu> bah, not enough memory to start that many openttds
11:26:53  <Samu> need moar ram
11:27:46  <Samu> i started a second server, while leaving the first one open with 64 clients in
11:28:13  <Samu> about 20 more clients were able to join the 2nd server
11:28:27  <Samu> then windows complains about mem
11:28:36  <Samu> and boom, black screen, had to restart
11:28:59  <Samu> 64 + ~20 = ~84 local
11:29:49  <Samu> server 1 was using 3979, server 2 was using 3980
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11:30:30  <Samu> hmm so what can be concluded with these tests?
11:31:13  <Wolf01> that you should start on fixing windows' limits instead of ottd?
11:32:24  <Samu> 64 for each port
11:44:59  <Samu> windows license says 20
11:45:14  <Samu> why did it allow 64 + ~20
11:45:28  <Samu> meh, doesn't matter, 64 is a good number
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12:03:34  <Alberth> o/
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12:05:06  <Wolf01> o/
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12:10:45  * andythenorth trying to figure out FIRS bug
12:10:54  <andythenorth> bauxite from oil rigs
12:11:53  <Alberth> ha, indeed, interesting bug
12:14:01  * andythenorth is getting bored of these :)
12:15:57  <Samu> okay today is the day
12:16:22  <Samu> how do i make flag bitmasks tables thing?
12:17:48  <Samu> the table is ready:
12:18:15  <Samu>
12:19:10  <Samu> want to use these flags instead of using bools
12:21:20  <Samu> i don't know how to ask :(
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12:23:28  <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm a nerd and made up my own train coding system to name my trains
12:24:36  <Alberth>  quite likely you're not the first person doing that :)
12:25:58  <Ethereal_Whisper> It's just a simple 4-block thing separated by dashes
12:26:04  <Ethereal_Whisper> For example this one is MF-F-AR-1
12:26:19  <Ethereal_Whisper> 4th block is just the number of the train fulfilling that role
12:27:00  <Samu> - i was told my bools and checks are ugly and that i could use flags bitmasks. I use them too often throughout the patch, and they are always checking the same things, repeatedly.
12:27:02  <Ethereal_Whisper> First block is station of origin (I just realized I messed up and it should be MFA), second is cargo type, third is destination
12:27:29  <Samu> and to simplify and make it readable, i needed some table
12:27:37  <Samu> i got the table now
12:28:06  <Ethereal_Whisper> MFA-F-AR stands for "de mine de fer Angouleme, fer, a Acerie Rennes" (from Angouleme iron mine, iron, to Rennes steel mill)
12:29:58  <Alberth> If that works for you, great :)
12:29:58  <Alberth> I never bother giving names to things, I just look what their orders are
12:32:19  <Wolf01> I use default names too, until I find that when there are many they mean nothing and is difficult to find what I'm looking for, then I start to rename 300 things
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12:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i generally give names to groups rather than trains
12:33:22  <andythenorth> ‘Group 1’
12:33:29  <Eddi|zuHause> or especially trams
12:33:59  <Eddi|zuHause> "ATown - Line 1"
12:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause> or "ATown-Btown"
12:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause> or "Cargo ATown-BTown"
12:37:58  <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm also playing in French even though I'm a native English speaker. Lol
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12:43:46  <Wolf01> I play in english because I find the italian translations weird
12:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i usually play in german even if the translation is terrible
12:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "First we didn't put effort into releases, so long as the updater works. Then people shyed away from .0 releases, because they'll be unusable until the first hotfix. and now we're calling the initial release .1"
12:53:44  <Wolf01> makes sense
12:53:51  <andythenorth> sounds familiar :P
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14:06:45  <supermop> yo
14:06:49  <Samu> hi
14:08:59  <supermop> whgats going on this morning
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14:10:15  <Samu> want to do bitmask flags and dont know how to start
14:10:27  <Ethereal_Whisper> Playing Toyland in French for fun
14:10:43  <Ethereal_Whisper> I tried an industry replacer NewGRF, the main popular one; it made my head hurt but it's very, very complex
14:13:28  <supermop> no idea what a bitmask flag is
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14:15:45  <Samu> enum flag?
14:16:01  <Samu> enum bitmask?
14:16:08  <Samu> :(
14:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause> "Value range propagation now assumes that the this pointer of C++ member functions is non-null. This eliminates common null pointer checks but also breaks some non-conforming code-bases (such as Qt-5, Chromium, KDevelop)." that sounds fun :p
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14:17:17  <Alberth> euhm, this pointer is null? what nonsense is that?
14:19:28  <Samu> [13:38] <Wolf01> you could use flags instead of variables, declare an enum and then use if (GB(SLOT_EDITABLE, flags)) or "flags, SLOT_EDITABLE" (I don't remember it now) or even IF (flags & (SLOT_EDITABLE | SLOT_VALID_AI))
14:19:33  <Samu> halp! :o
14:20:45  <Samu> i have this for guidance
14:21:13  <Samu> how do i code flags, enums etc
14:21:59  <Alberth> openttd has lots of enums that define flags
14:32:17  <Alberth> look how GB is used
14:35:35  <Ethereal_Whisper> Heh, I forgot how silly the French word for "cotton candy" is
14:35:43  <Ethereal_Whisper> "barbe a papa" which means "father's beard" literally
14:36:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i would have understood "grandpa's beard"
14:36:21  <Eddi|zuHause> but "papa"?
14:36:34  <Ethereal_Whisper> ... yeah
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14:44:29  <Samu> oh i used gb before
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14:51:12  <Alberth> Wolf already mentioned it
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15:01:36  <Samu> enum ScriptSlotFlags?
15:01:45  <Samu> need a decent name
15:02:15  <Samu> they are dealing with companies from 1-15 and owner deity
15:02:58  <Samu> and where would this enum be in the code? which file?
15:14:59  <planetmaker> Samu, for Player there's a special type already... 'tPlayer' or similar
15:15:24  <Wolf01> bbl, maybe
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15:32:39  <Ethereal_Whisper> Lol @ the map being so small I can't even profit
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16:09:41  <Alberth> use RVs?  :)
16:10:03  <Alberth> or trams, perhaps
16:11:35  <supermop> difficult to lose money with trams
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17:05:52  <Eddi|zuHause> difficult to lose money with ANYTHING, unless you played with inflation and no progression
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17:08:24  <Alberth> running costs are the biggest factor :)
17:08:40  <Alberth> perhaps loan at the start
17:09:45  <supermop> how hard is it to write a gs starting from 0 programming understanding in any language?
17:10:32  <supermop> like is it fairly natural language-y and could do it in a couple days, or do i need to learn some basic stuff first?
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17:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause> no. all programming languages are fairly logic-y, and you need to forget anything about natural languages
17:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause> or rather everything
17:44:06  <Alberth> remembering your name and birthday would be useful :p
17:47:31  <Samu> this is complicated
17:48:08  <Alberth> remembering your name and birthday?
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17:54:11  <Alberth> o/ zuu
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17:55:01  <Guest2046> Hello
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17:58:59  <Zuu_> supermop: It really depends on what GS you like to do. If all you want to do is to say hello to each company that joins, then MinimalGS is pretty much ready for you. Just change author, GS short name and its name.
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18:01:40  <Alberth> soo many zuus :)
18:01:53  <Zuu__> But otherwise, well GS is programming in a language that is not the most forgiving one. No real debugger available other than printing messages to the OpenTTD gs log.
18:02:10  <Zuu__> hehe... I blame the train internet.
18:02:22  <Alberth> good choice :)
18:02:30  <Alberth> highly on topic :p
18:02:39  <Zuu__> Yeah
18:07:01  *** Zuu_ [~chatzilla@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07:01  <Zuu__> So if you like to learn programming a GS and start from 0, there are better languages/environments than OpenTTD+squirrel 2.0 to learn programming. But if GS is your motivation, it is not impossible to go this track. And motivation is something you'll need. :-)
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18:21:05  <Samu> what is the bit operator that makes 1 ^ 0 = 0
18:21:13  <Samu> is it the ^, that is?
18:21:45  <Samu> ah, it's the $
18:21:51  <Samu> crap, &
18:23:19  <supermop> Zuu__: just want a gs that bulldozes, buys land, and gifts land to player
18:23:44  <Samu> 10 & 11 = 10
18:24:05  <Samu> 0000 0010 & 0000 0011 = 0000 0010
18:24:38  <Alberth> that's not 10 (decimal)  :)
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18:25:38  <Samu> it's the & operator I was looking for
18:25:42  <Samu> ty
18:25:56  <supermop> Zuu__: or just one that relocates demolished houses?
18:27:17  <Zuu__> A problem you'll have is to know what buildings that get destroyed.
18:27:21  <Samu> in decimal i'm doing 2 & 3 = 2
18:27:27  <Samu> and it's working
18:28:31  <Zuu__> And if you want to build exactly the same building at a different spot, that is also hard-ish (requires patching openttd)
18:28:51  <Zuu__> Here you can read the GS api:
18:29:37  <Zuu__> Basically a GS is a script in Squirrel 2.0 language. It can order OpenTTD to do things. And the link shows what commands/orders it can send to OpenTTD.
18:29:42  <supermop> Zuu__: could simply be build any 4 houses for any 4 destroyed
18:30:21  <Zuu__> GS can click on the 'fund new buildings' button and/or control growth rate.
18:30:34  <supermop> or note town population before bulldozing, then afterwards try to build new houses to match the old population
18:31:25  <Zuu__> Is the GS the one bulldozing or is it others that bulldoze?
18:32:05  <supermop> gs
18:32:16  <Zuu__> That makes things a lot easier :-)
18:32:53  <Samu> I have this so far SCRIPTSLOT_AI_STARTED = 2, SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED = 3
18:32:56  <Zuu__> Or you would need to monitor map to see when building disappears which isn't doable for script performance reasons.
18:33:13  <Samu> if i want to retrieve a script that started regardless if it's AI or GS, what is the operator that I use?
18:33:26  <Samu> & or | ?
18:37:08  <Samu> bah im confused
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18:37:48  <supermop> are reverse subsidies possible?
18:38:36  <supermop> say, for the the next 10 years all deliveries to x pay 1/2 rate?
18:39:38  <Samu>
18:39:43  <Samu> is this enum correct?
18:40:05  <Alberth> supermop: you don't have access to the precise amount of payment
18:40:33  <Alberth> reward bee assigns a fixed amount of money on a completed goal
18:42:28  <Samu> i hate math
18:42:42  <Samu> this isn't even math, but it's so similar
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18:44:21  <Samu> here's what I have in mind, 0 - slot is orange, 1 - slot is silver, 2 and 3 - slot is either green or red
18:44:41  <andythenorth> o/
18:44:45  <Samu> next i check if they have the script dead or not dead
18:44:52  <Samu> and they get their color
18:45:07  <andythenorth> supermop: could assign a penalty deduction for some routes
18:45:10  <supermop> yo andythenorth
18:45:11  <andythenorth> bit weird
18:45:15  <andythenorth> but eh
18:45:53  <Samu> dead is red, green is not dead
18:46:19  <Samu> but there can be combinations :( AI dead, GS dead, AI not dead, GS not dead
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18:48:00  <supermop> thinking of a gs that simulates eminent domain sort of
18:49:08  <Samu> hmm
18:49:17  <supermop> if you get a ways along in game and some unserved town has gotten (or started out as) fairly large/sprawling
18:49:50  <supermop> it is a pain to carve even a little bit into that town to build a station
18:50:29  <andythenorth> had that in my last game
18:50:33  <andythenorth> station walking :P
18:50:37  <andythenorth> solves all ills
18:50:39  <supermop> and big towns look odd left neglected or with stations too far out of town
18:51:38  <supermop> but could be fun for that desperate for service town to 'give' a little corridor of right of way or easement to a company
18:53:11  <supermop> but maybe the company in question receiving this boon pays for it either with royalty on their revenues in that town, or by up front lump sum
18:53:23  <supermop> public-private partnerships and all that
18:54:29  <supermop> other option is an AI that does the dirty work then sells itself to a player
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19:00:41  <Alberth> doesn't make a lot of difference in terms of code that you write, I think
19:00:57  <Samu> it's the | isn't it?
19:01:33  <Alberth> \ | / - \ | / - \ | / !
19:02:26  <Alberth> rotating | doesn't look good :(
19:02:42  <Samu> eh, i'm not entirely sure of what I'm doing
19:03:30  <Alberth> glad you notice it :)
19:05:49  <Samu> there's something wrong with this
19:07:12  <Samu>
19:07:13  <Alberth> generally you start with naming the individual bits, and then composing them
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19:08:24  <Alberth> SCRIPTSLOT_GS_STARTED  is not a bit
19:08:48  <Alberth> also abbreviate SCRIPTSLOT to just SST
19:09:06  <Alberth> any any other 2 or 3 letters
19:09:10  <Alberth> *or
19:11:23  <Samu> how can i distinguish a GS from the other 3?
19:12:42  <Alberth> give it its own bit?
19:13:12  <Alberth> checking it's not one of the others?
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20:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you don't carve out stuff of the town. you build the station at the outskirts and provide a tram/bus service into the city
20:04:31  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: thats one way to do it, and the way most favoured by the game as is
20:08:07  <andythenorth> only with cdist mind
20:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the other way is to just attach bus stops to the station to increase coverage area
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20:08:53  <Eddi|zuHause> if you also attach an airport, you need fewer bus stops to cover the whole town :p
20:09:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (as each bus stop will take on the coverage area of the train station/airport if it's attached)
20:10:12  <andythenorth> ha
20:10:16  * andythenorth forgot that
20:10:22  <andythenorth> stations are bizarre :)
20:11:10  <frosch123> [22:03] <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: you don't carve out stuff of the town. you build the station at the outskirts and provide a tram/bus service into the city <- have you been to stuttgart?
20:11:25  <Eddi|zuHause> not that i know of :p
20:11:46  <supermop> still think it would be fun to have provisions for more central metro or commuter lines at times without an agonizing multi-decade piecemeal buying process
20:12:11  <Eddi|zuHause> but in the later stages of the game you can easily do that, as service through busses will quickly replenish your town reputation
20:12:47  <supermop> in a way that has some kind of game mechanism beyond cheat/bribe/cut and replant acres of forests
20:13:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the tree cheat could easily be disabled: disallow cutting trees if reputation < x
20:13:59  <supermop> something like "town desperate for better train service offers you an easement direct to some neighborhood"
20:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause> where x is larger than the reputation needed to allow building a station/bus stop
20:14:37  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: that could be useful, if in return there is a penalty if you fail to offer the service
20:14:39  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: you may end up with many villages you can never repent to then
20:14:42  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: building a station likely involves cutting trees
20:14:48  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: exactly
20:15:09  <supermop> trade offs in some some manner of incentives/penalties provided by GS
20:15:50  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, it should be combined with other measures, like preventing the whole map be covered with trees
20:16:45  <frosch123> ah, i guess it needs a statemachine for growing trees
20:16:45  <supermop> we give you this prime station location, but in return we want a minimum of x amount of service, or we give you this land, but you must pay us x lump sum, or y per year over 10 years, or z percent of revenues in our town
20:17:55  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: there is also the problem that much of the map isn't owned by any entity so, you end up with a region full of wilderness and towns fierce to protect it
20:18:23  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: no, there's a range where towns just don't care
20:18:38  <andythenorth> late-game demolish and build isn’t blocked by rating
20:18:42  <andythenorth> it’s blocked by roads
20:18:58  <andythenorth> physically impossible to build much without magic bulldozer cheat
20:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't see what you mean
20:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause> never had the need for magic bulldozer
20:19:40  * andythenorth finds picture
20:19:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and in the situations where i would have used it, it was about industries
20:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: do you mean roads built by AI?
20:20:20  <andythenorth> I mean town-owned roads
20:20:30  <supermop> but that's even more odd, that all the pristine forests that would be a great national park you may destroy with impunity, yet some suburban prairie that you yourself covered in non native trees is passionately guarded
20:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause> you can remove town roads with rating
20:21:01  <andythenorth> you can’t remove town roads if they’re connected at all sides
20:21:09  <andythenorth> or even 3 sides
20:21:20  <andythenorth> oh
20:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that hasn't been true for like 10 years
20:21:25  <andythenorth> in this game I can :o
20:21:41  <andythenorth> wtf, when did that change? :o
20:22:01  <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a setting: "allow removing more roads" or somesuch
20:22:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it was probably removed from gui by now
20:22:17  <andythenorth> no actually it still is true
20:22:29  <andythenorth> I think I just found some road from a dead AI the first time I tried
20:22:32  <andythenorth> or my own road :P
20:22:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just flip that setting
20:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> might have been called "extra dynamite" at some point
20:23:43  <andythenorth> well that’s interesting
20:23:53  <Eddi|zuHause> extra_dynamite = true
20:24:11  <andythenorth> changes my approach to building in town
20:24:23  <supermop> its odd though, that no farmer cares that i tear out his crops if i pay him a little extra, but no one stops me building on land that is somehow owned by no one at the towns edge, just the city council gets bitter about it
20:24:42  <andythenorth> eh just game mechanic no? :)
20:25:04  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: if that's the only problem you have in this game... :p
20:25:37  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: the farmer does care, that's why you pay exorbitant amounts of money for the land
20:25:44  <supermop> i think making a trade for a bit of land would be an interesting complement to that mechanic
20:26:16  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: maybe we should pay similarly for land the nearer it is to a town, or something important
20:26:33  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch for that...
20:27:13  <supermop> and towns or industries more wanting for service could depress land values around them to approximate a desire to negotiate with you
20:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: or you could write a land owning simulation :p
20:28:14  <supermop> but this is all more complex than what i envisioned
20:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause> then you negotiate with nobles and churches who together own 80% of the land
20:28:51  <SpComb^> pretend it's a state railway in a communist land with no private land ownership
20:28:52  <supermop> which was a subsidy GS, where the subsidy was a plot of land
20:29:21  <supermop> SpComb^: that's really the only way to make sense of the game
20:30:57  <andythenorth> hmm
20:31:04  <andythenorth> what’s this fricking oil rig grf
20:31:20  * andythenorth bored of conflicting newgrf whackamole :|
20:32:25  <supermop> i often come across a certain problem, in that even when i set out to build a simple industrial network first, i find myself driven to build a passenger network serving every town my mineral line passes
20:33:35  <supermop> as if i dont build it first thing in game, those town will despise me for cutting through their trees, and then i can never establish a station their later to recover
20:33:41  <supermop> andythenorth: not your problem
20:34:16  <supermop> people add extra industry grfs at their own risk.discretion
20:35:46  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: just put a bus line in each town
20:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> two stops, one bus
20:36:20  <Eddi|zuHause> going 5 tiles
20:36:26  <Eddi|zuHause> or so
20:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i usually put 5 stops and make two lines in an X shape, or so
20:37:14  <supermop> then every little village along my coal road grows into a city, and what business does a freight railroad have running a municipal transit district
20:37:15  <Eddi|zuHause> (and then put my station at one of the X ends)
20:37:19  <supermop> but thats what  do
20:37:26  <supermop> what i do
20:37:58  <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the reasons why i never have a decent freight network :p
20:38:19  <supermop> so every time i set out to try some arctic firs game , by the 5th years i'm too distracted running a regional commuter network
20:38:56  <Eddi|zuHause> but there should be a cheat that simply ignores town rating (lesser version of magic bulldozer)
20:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause> or add that as an option for town tolerance
20:41:08  <andythenorth> bus in every town
20:41:16  <andythenorth> standard
20:41:19  <andythenorth> or even mail
20:41:25  <andythenorth> cost of playing
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20:50:22  <supermop> well i still find myself with some 5,000 person city in a corner of the map completely neglected as no freight line had to run by it and its not worth the hassle to connect to my passenger network that has since consumed my time. the town trying to bribe me into servicing it would be interesting
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20:53:28  * andythenorth -> bed
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22:26:45  <Samu> this enumeration thing is too hard
22:26:50  <Samu> i don't know what I need
22:27:00  <Samu> what needs to be enumerated
22:27:37  <Samu> it looks easy at first, but the more i dwelve into it, the less i know
22:30:31  <Samu>
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22:31:25  <Samu> hmm :( im doing this wrong, sec, let me edit
22:32:25  <Samu> this is better
22:32:53  <Samu> alive scripts are not allowed to edit all parameters
22:32:57  <Samu> i had that wrong
22:34:47  <_dp_> half of your ScriptSlotFlags don't even depend on slot
22:42:16  <Samu> please explain me what I'm doing wrong
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22:43:27  <Samu> i picked those 6 bool checks which are the most commonly used
22:44:01  <Samu> there's a few others like IsEditable, Slot Movable, but they don't depend on a flag of teir own
22:44:08  <_dp_> I don't know what are you trying to do here with those flags, but having in slot flags smth that has nothing to do with slots is clearly wrong
22:44:41  <_dp_> there is _game_mode for checking game mode, why on earth would you put it to every slot flags
22:45:13  <Samu> I ask for that test many times in the bools
22:45:35  <Samu> it's basically in everyone of them
22:45:55  <Samu> i don't really understand what to do
22:46:22  <Samu> have you seen my code with the bools? i was told it was ugly, they were giant lines
22:46:37  <Samu> i thought enums and flags would help make it more readable, or simple
22:47:39  <Samu> there it is - the tests are nearly everywhere, they're almost always giant lines
22:47:53  <Samu> how do i make them readable
22:47:53  <_dp_> so? doing hasflag(flags, SST_GAMEMODE) instead of _game_mode == GM_NORMAL just obscures logic, nothing else
22:51:34  <_dp_> I'd say doing 2-3 functions would help significantly
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23:19:50  <Samu> i have no more time today
23:19:58  <Samu> tomorrow i'll look into this again
23:20:01  <Samu> cyas good night
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23:26:07  <drac_boy> hi
23:26:16  <drac_boy> anyone here rather know what a lima shay is locomotives-wise? :)
23:27:15  <Supercheese> geared locomotive
23:27:33  <Supercheese> good for steep gradients/heavy loads
23:27:59  <Supercheese>
23:28:14  <Supercheese> way back when they used some on logging railroads around where I live
23:28:24  <Supercheese> way back when,*
23:29:40  <drac_boy> supercheese well in that case how would you like THIS unusual steam-to-diesel conversion?
23:30:36  <drac_boy> not sure how they got the diesel's power to the side shaft .. but under the cab you can see what looks like a different-colored gearbox doing that task apparently
23:30:52  <Supercheese> yeah they pulled the expansion cylinders it looks like
23:31:27  <drac_boy> I never thought someone would actually turn a shay chassis into a diesel locomotive but .. there it is 0_0
23:31:52  <Supercheese> and it probably has bestial tractive effort
23:32:03  <Supercheese> although they did lose the tender it seems
23:32:10  <drac_boy> and from the look of the logs just poking into the photo .. its probably working a log line with equally-alike 10-20kph top speed restriction :)
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23:34:42  <drac_boy> supercheese also not many of them were photographed but much more numerous were the 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 being turned into mechanical gas or diesel locomotives
23:34:54  <drac_boy> this is quite a strange/ugly looking homemade one heh
23:35:09  <Supercheese> very ugly indeed
23:35:17  <drac_boy> looks like the steps are probably still original :)
23:36:07  <drac_boy> some 0-4-0's (I never quite get it) had a lot of overhangs so they could look a little comical .. so the large space between rear axle and rear buffer beam doesn't surprise me there
23:36:46  <drac_boy> heres one of these with a nice overhang
23:37:07  <drac_boy> looks like even the firebox may be all the way behind the driver instead of sitting over it even
23:41:10  <Supercheese> as long as the center of gravity is nicely over the axles
23:41:32  <Supercheese> and their cantilevers aren't too problematic
23:42:48  <Supercheese> but steam engines tend to use beefy materials so I doubt they have to worry about excessive bending moments or anything, they can handle it
23:43:08  <drac_boy> well I think it also helps having saddletank which puts a bit more balance over the front :)
23:44:27  <drac_boy> semi-related footnote: the first 'simple' articulated locomotive had a short flue that basically the front drivers were a bit "loose" which explains why they were restricted to low speed or helper services where the instability wasn't going to be as pronounced
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23:45:38  <drac_boy> the second design (forgot which railroad but may had been Sealine) corrected this by extending the flues moving the gravity point further forward
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23:46:20  <drac_boy> kinda hard to explain it but heh I guess if you have an articulated locomotive with little weight over the front its probably no surprise if it "shakes" a lot
23:54:41  <drac_boy> supercheese but anyway this aside, how're you doing?
23:56:34  <Supercheese> got a cup of hot coffee, so everything's good
23:57:00  <drac_boy> :)

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