Log for #openttd on 1st May 2016:
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06:39:40  <andythenorth> o/
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07:51:22  <Leanden> Hi all
07:51:26  <Leanden> any hg experts here
07:51:30  <Leanden> ive fucked up :P
07:53:38  <andythenorth> what happened?
07:53:44  <andythenorth> or what’s the problem?
07:53:51  <Leanden> i accidentally commited my binary to the repository
07:53:54  <Leanden> and now i cant push :)
07:54:31  <andythenorth> was it the last commit?
07:54:36  <Leanden> the first
07:55:09  <andythenorth> hmm dunno
07:55:21  <andythenorth> what’s the message on push?
07:55:23  <Leanden> i think i may have actually fixed it
07:55:39  <Leanden> 1 sec ill get it up
07:55:52  <Leanden> ahh balls
07:55:58  <Leanden> i fixed it and created a new error lol
07:56:09  <Leanden> remote: File "Makefile.local" may not be added to the repository.transaction abort!
07:57:10  <andythenorth> have you got a .hgignore?
07:57:25  <Leanden> yes
07:57:36  <Leanden> i add the files to that?
07:57:46  <andythenorth> I am not the best advisor on hg
07:58:02  <andythenorth> make a copy your whole project directory locallly in case of accidents
07:58:15  <Leanden> oh i already did ;D
07:58:32  <andythenorth> my .hgignore looks like
07:58:44  <andythenorth> I would pick one of these two solutions
07:58:52  <andythenorth> (1) read the hg manual
07:59:14  <andythenorth> (2) wait for somebody here who can help you better :)
07:59:26  <Leanden> no your hgignore is perfect
07:59:27  <Leanden> thanks
07:59:33  <andythenorth> it might not solve the problem
07:59:59  <Leanden> oh there isnt a hgignore -.-
08:00:17  <andythenorth> you have the file added to a commit, and the repo might simply never accept that without deleting the commit from your local hg
08:00:24  <andythenorth> deleting commits in hg scares me a lot tbh
08:00:39  <andythenorth> usually when there is a problem with hg, I just delete everything and start again
08:01:34  <andythenorth> that’s kind of silly and not the point of VCS :P
08:02:30  <Leanden> trying my push again
08:06:16  <Leanden>  /sigh it didnt work
08:06:24  <Leanden> i think i will just start the repository from scratch
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08:10:44  <Leanden> it worked
08:10:45  <Leanden> i think
08:11:02  <Leanden>
08:11:04  <Leanden> yep :)
08:16:27  <Leanden> so now that the repo is up on the dev page
08:16:36  <Leanden> will it automatically compile nightly?
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08:54:52  <Leanden> @log
08:55:18  <Leanden> I missed the answer, will my repo automatically compile nightlies?
08:56:11  <blathijs> Leanden: Nobody answered yet :-)
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09:06:47  <Wolf01> o/
09:13:07  <Wolf01> lol, andy, as I expected yesterday evening I've seen very large sets shifting from one car trunk to another
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09:17:30  <Samu> what happens when "keep all autosave = true" with "max_num_autosave = true"?
09:17:34  <Samu> oops 16
09:17:51  <Samu> "keep all autosave = true" with "max_num_autosave = 16"?
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09:50:04  <Samu> okay this time i'm testing 8 AI's solo
09:50:11  <Samu> keep all autosaves
09:50:24  <Samu> monthly, for hopefully 100 years
09:50:38  <Samu> 1950-2051
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09:57:39  <andythenorth> Wolf01: are you involved in some kind of smuggling operation? o_O
09:57:50  <Wolf01> nah
09:58:37  <Wolf01> just fans purchasing bulks to get a discount
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10:28:19  <argoneus> good morning train friend
10:28:20  <argoneus> s
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10:38:49  <andythenorth>
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10:53:35  <V453000> \o/ andythenorth actually doing stuff?
10:53:54  <V453000> I miss a surface-mining hole in the ground for iron ore mine andythenorth
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10:54:54  <andythenorth> I don’t see how to make a mine look good
10:55:06  <andythenorth> the YETI solution works, but FIRS is more realisms
10:55:49  <V453000> I was pointing more towards the original iron ore mine
10:55:54  <V453000> but I understand you want modularity
10:56:01  <V453000> perhaps 3x3 hole, with modularity around?
10:56:17  <andythenorth> I think it will look small and lame?
10:56:37  <V453000> depends how you draw it :) 4x4 certainly looks good, you could even do that
10:56:45  <andythenorth> quarry is 3x5
10:56:51  <V453000> the industry wouldnt mind being x5 yeah
10:57:23  <andythenorth> can’t someone just make newobjects for the hole?
10:57:27  <andythenorth> I don’t care for it :P
10:57:51  <V453000> :(
10:57:54  <V453000> but quarry has a hole
10:58:07  <V453000> just edit it, remove water, eazy
10:58:43  <andythenorth> maybe
10:59:50  <andythenorth> I could use this layout just for Manganese mine
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11:00:04  <andythenorth> I was going to use same sprites for Manganese and Iron Ore mines
11:01:27  <andythenorth> seems Iron Ore should be open pit, really
11:02:23  <andythenorth> Leanden: you’d be wise to set up a better compile and templating early
11:02:31  <andythenorth> otherwise you’ll be chasing your tail later
11:02:38  * andythenorth has been there, done that
11:04:13  <andythenorth> V453000: YETI iron mine is 3x3?
11:04:53  * andythenorth checks in game
11:07:01  <V453000> 4x4
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11:08:26  <andythenorth> iz nice
11:08:36  <andythenorth> I can’t really use the blocks in FIRS
11:08:41  <andythenorth> good approach though
11:08:52  <V453000> yeah
11:08:58  <V453000> is why I say try smaller block
11:09:05  <V453000> perhaps 2x4 or something might work as well
11:10:40  <andythenorth> meh
11:10:49  <andythenorth> 8x9 would be nice
11:11:10  <andythenorth> that’s what happens if I paste YETI sprite onto screenie of landscape
11:11:18  <V453000> XD
11:11:23  <andythenorth> can’t ever build the fucker though
11:13:04  <andythenorth>
11:13:17  <V453000> wtf :D
11:13:31  <V453000> also, logically 8x8 :P
11:14:04  <V453000> I'm also not going to investigate how did you achieve the white background/edges
11:14:21  <andythenorth> paste, magic wand
11:14:27  <andythenorth> didn’t bother doing it carefully
11:15:00  <andythenorth> V453000 do you have a version without blocks? o_O
11:15:01  <V453000> just made some great technical tests for conveyor belts in blender
11:15:04  <V453000> serioze shit coming
11:15:08  <V453000> nope
11:15:37  <andythenorth> balls
11:15:46  * andythenorth doesn’t want to draw a pit in pixels from scratch
11:15:49  <andythenorth> super ball ache
11:16:31  <V453000> kind of fun actually
11:16:36  <V453000> I would like to do that but time
11:16:40  <andythenorth> me too
11:16:44  <andythenorth> time is the problem
11:17:05  <andythenorth> it will take weeks to draw a pit, at 1hr per day max spare time
11:17:30  <andythenorth> also 8x8 is completely never going to get built by the game
11:17:37  <andythenorth> total waste of time :D
11:18:01  <V453000> 2 hours max imo
11:18:09  <V453000> no need for 8x8
11:18:18  <V453000> 2x4 ish is enough
11:18:43  * andythenorth experimenting
11:18:56  <andythenorth> depends if chibi works or not
11:18:59  <andythenorth> might look weak
11:21:59  <andythenorth> V453000: this is lying around, unused :P
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11:27:30  <V453000> might be a good start :P
11:47:57  <andythenorth> meh
11:48:08  <andythenorth> I never liked any of the original baseset mines either
11:48:26  * andythenorth can’t get enthused about big one-piece sprites
11:50:31  <frosch123> don't do surface mining then :)
11:50:40  <andythenorth> V453000 says I have to :)
11:51:23  <frosch123> you can draw various "towers" for deep mining
11:51:36  <frosch123> freight elevators and such
11:51:38  <andythenorth>
11:51:42  <andythenorth> oops wrong paste
11:51:50  <andythenorth>
11:51:52  <andythenorth> better
11:52:23  <frosch123> the train is fine, but don't make it run horizontally
11:53:04  <frosch123> something like a tunnel entry
11:53:09  <frosch123> you can also have multiple of them
11:53:11  <frosch123> not just one
11:53:15  <andythenorth> I considered having it ascend a slope
11:53:26  <andythenorth> in standard TTD fashion :P
11:53:44  <frosch123> yeah, and make doom shine from the depths of the tunnel
11:53:58  <frosch123> maybe V also likes it then :p
11:54:08  <andythenorth> it’s more of a winding tower thing
11:54:13  <andythenorth> I tried tunnels, bit lame
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11:56:02  <frosch123> altenatively you could make them build at a hill slope
11:56:11  <frosch123> though iirc you didn't like sloped industries
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11:57:23  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- see the "chisholm, mn 1900"
11:57:24  <andythenorth> saving that for copper mine :)
11:57:28  <andythenorth> (hill slope)
11:57:48  <frosch123> it does not need to be a vertical elevator
11:57:50  <andythenorth> so many mines that need to be different :P
11:57:53  <andythenorth> nearly as bad as farms
11:57:54  <frosch123> sloped elevators are nicer
11:58:12  <andythenorth> lots of neat mines there
11:58:22  <andythenorth> this was inspiration so far
11:59:48  <frosch123> your mines lack stuff to pump air underground
11:59:57  <frosch123> and return smoke from underground engines
12:01:23  <andythenorth> there are some vents in the one I pasted
12:01:41  <andythenorth> I had some chimneys and pipes, but I thought it looked to much like a secondary industry :)
12:01:54  * andythenorth favours more chimneys and pipes
12:03:20  <frosch123> you can also make a water mine
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12:03:50  <frosch123> with a horizontal tunnel into the hill, which is traveled by ships
12:05:13  <frosch123> though it is kind of a creative interpretation of drainage tunnels
12:05:23  <andythenorth> ha
12:07:05  <andythenorth> so I should change the winding towers?
12:07:15  <andythenorth> they are a nasty hack atm
12:07:24  <frosch123> i think the winding towers give the most options for variety :)
12:07:37  <frosch123> vertical, sloped, horizontal
12:08:14  <andythenorth> in the sprites I posted, is it obvious which towers are the winding tower?
12:08:20  <andythenorth> there’s no wheels or anything :P
12:09:25  <frosch123> it is kind of safe to assume that all tall buildings are winding towers
12:09:37  <frosch123> there is no point in other tall buildings, is there?
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12:17:06  <andythenorth> dunno :)
12:17:09  <andythenorth> it’s all just sprites
12:19:32  <andythenorth> bbl
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12:51:01  <Wolf01> o/
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12:56:30  <frosch123> Wolf01: i remembered that i use circuit networks actually for something :p
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12:56:54  <frosch123> enable "heavy oil -> light oil" cracking if "lubricant" is full
12:57:08  <frosch123> enable "light oil -> gas" cracknig, if "light oil > gas"
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12:57:19  <Wolf01> I think that's the first thing to do in every game XD
12:57:45  <frosch123> pipes do not have the two lanes as belts do
12:58:00  <frosch123> so, i do not know a way around balancing it with circuit notwork
12:58:27  <Islacrusez> pipes are silly
12:58:31  <Wolf01> pumps and fluid redirection
12:59:08  <Wolf01> yeah, I installed the mod to decide which pipes to connect instead leaving to do it automatically
12:59:11  <Islacrusez> on the other hand if your system is fully pressurised (hard to do without tweaking the oil richness) you don't have the problem
13:01:23  <Islacrusez> personally I wasn't happy with the oil, as with 3 patches per field and about 0.9/s base, it didn't take long to "deplete" them
13:01:31  <Wolf01> the problem is that I need some hysteresis circuits to do this, because the fluid changes are too slow and I want at least half tank full before redirecting the fluid to another processing plant
13:02:25  <Wolf01> oh, that's not a problem, I only have one (actually a cluster of 5) refinery and I bring there the oil from the entire map
13:02:28  <Islacrusez> so after launching my satellite on the default settings, I upped the richness of everything by one and oil to max, and upped the size by one and oil to max, and made everything much rarer
13:03:11  <Islacrusez> perhaps a little too rich on the oil though, 5.5/s base is a *lot*
13:03:51  <Islacrusez> but it means I can actually run a train service to oil fields; otherwise it's damn near poinless
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13:25:58  <^Spike^> Leanden should you push to again and it fails could you highlight one of us in #openttdcoop.devzone? (we just noticed something wierd about your repo that we hopefully fixed :))
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14:20:18  <Alberth> Leanden: you can easily make a batch file to run the gcc step, and then the nml step
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15:09:58  <Alberth> o/
15:11:05  <andythenorth> o/
15:14:46  <peter1138> bah
15:16:14  <andythenorth> yup
15:16:24  <andythenorth> I think I have a patch for ‘bah'
15:17:07  <peter1138> should i go with shimano ultegra (but with rim brakes) or lower-end sram kit (but with disc brakes)?
15:18:04  <Wolf01> weather?
15:19:26  <andythenorth> type of bike?
15:22:06  <peter1138> summer road bike
15:22:22  <peter1138> but i'm, er, large, so good stopping power is useful
15:22:39  <andythenorth> do you mind changing the blocks on rim brakes?
15:23:37  <peter1138> not really but i usually get frustrated with adjusting them all the time
15:23:45  <andythenorth> I have 2 hybrids, one has hydraulic disks, one has wire-pull rim V brakes
15:24:08  <andythenorth> I don’t really like the handling of the disks, but they are low maintenance and don’t fade in wet
15:24:46  <peter1138>
15:24:57  <Wolf01> one of the last times I used the catapult... ehrm the bike I the rim brakes didn't work so well because of water, and I had a bad encounter with the kerb
15:25:17  <Wolf01> leave that rogue "I"
15:26:00  <peter1138>
15:26:03  <peter1138> or something like that
15:35:21  <andythenorth> I’d probably go with the disks
15:35:58  <andythenorth> at that price, the groupset will be at least ‘ok'
15:36:46  <andythenorth> FWIW I have an £800 Scott commute bike that has needed servicing once in 6 years
15:37:49  <peter1138> that sram is basically shimano 105 level, which is one step below ultegra
15:38:00  <peter1138> otoh, it'll all need replacing when it wears out anyway
15:38:39  <andythenorth> +1
15:39:10  * andythenorth blames V453000
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16:11:02  <Wolf01> oh finally the tractor unit of the 42043 is finished :o
16:11:26  <Wolf01> andy, should I put the stickers?
16:12:23  <andythenorth> never
16:12:38  <Wolf01> +1
16:12:50  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I use about 50% of the stickers usually
16:13:34  <Wolf01> I put the stickers on the various model-a I decided to keep, but on model-b or mocs I never put them
16:14:07  <Wolf01> and now the funny part: a moc of the trailer with a stewart platform on top
16:14:20  <peter1138>
16:14:25  <peter1138> obviously i need something from there
16:14:30  <Wolf01> :)
16:17:06  <Wolf01> mmmh this thing is huge, I was worried about the size of the stewart platform but I think it will fit with no problems
16:19:06  <Wolf01> the only problem is that I must redesign the entire trailer without the gearbox, maybe without the suspensions, move the stabilizers before the wheels and leaving enough space inside to fit 6 linear actuators
16:19:36  <Wolf01> with 6 motors
16:20:08  <Samu> hmm, because of 1 string, my entire patch size increased brutally
16:20:14  <Samu> t.t
16:22:58  <Samu> there's something weird with the lang generator
16:23:12  * Islacrusez wonders what everyone's on about
16:23:17  <Samu> it switches the order it generates spanish_MX with spanish
16:24:14  <Samu> let me copy paste what happens
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16:26:47  <Samu>
16:30:41  <Samu> sees to be an issue of what comes first alphabetically when sorting? spanish or spanish_MX
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16:30:53  <Samu> seems*
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16:54:51  <Samu> patch sized 22.15 KiB becomes 78.31 KiB
16:55:03  <Samu> just to remove 1 string from all language files
16:55:39  <Samu> is this the correct way to handle the issue I was having?
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16:57:01  <Samu> the issue was line 3 (master english.txt) versus line 14 (all other languages)
16:57:27  <Samu> that {STRING} was screwing MSVC lang generator with tons of warnings
17:00:13  <Alberth> if you change strings in the base language, then yep, all other languages complain
17:01:22  <Alberth> either you fix all languages, or you remove in english, and use a different string name for the new caption
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17:06:16  <Samu> hmm, gonna try
17:06:29  <Samu> use a different string name for the new caption
17:07:09  <Samu> it is also the approach I had in mind first, but then I saw the others weren't doing that
17:07:20  <Samu> the other captions
17:13:29  <Alberth> normally you have only one caption
17:13:48  <Alberth> and don't change it
17:29:06  <Samu> STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION - this one has to stay with that name
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17:31:06  <Samu> yep, can't rename it, it must stay :(
17:31:32  <Samu> tons of warnings because i renamed it, doesn't exist in master file
17:31:58  <Alberth> obviously, but it works
17:32:10  <Alberth> but otherwise, change the string in all languages
17:32:45  <Samu> will reuse it, STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION  and add a new one STR_AI_CONFIG_CAPTION_INGAME
17:33:49  <Samu> yeah, no more warnings
17:42:57  <Samu> done
17:43:09  <Samu>
17:43:23  <Samu> v13 uploaded
17:46:06  <andythenorth>
17:46:23  <andythenorth> needs different ground tile eh
17:47:03  <Wolf01> half platform done... need more pieces
17:48:39  <andythenorth> black ground? o_O
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17:50:06  <V453000> andythenorth: it needs some shape which suggests going downhill
17:50:16  <V453000> the mining train looks like it just came from the room
17:50:49  <V453000> very interesting photo in colours
17:50:54  <V453000> black - yellowish - red
17:51:22  <andythenorth> hmm
17:51:35  <andythenorth> maybe I actually have to draw the winding wheels
17:52:28  <andythenorth> that sounds boring
17:53:21  <V453000> not necessarily
17:53:31  <V453000> but making a building roof like /, with some angle
17:53:34  <V453000> going towards the ground
17:53:41  <V453000> very much suggests undergronud mining
17:54:01  <V453000> original graphics do this with the animated wheels and stuff, which suggests it is pulled from below
17:54:08  <V453000> there is no such visual connection here
17:54:25  <V453000> I would just change the building to make it clear that it comes form below
17:55:05  <andythenorth> yeah it would need winding wheels
17:55:14  <andythenorth> it’s supposed to be a vertical shaft mine
17:55:36  <andythenorth> I have at least 2 other mines to do, those will be sloping ramp exit things
17:55:46  <V453000> ah I get what you mean
17:55:50  <V453000> well
17:55:58  <V453000> undeground doesn't need to mean super deep, does it?
17:56:32  <Samu> hmm people forget their company passwords
17:56:41  <andythenorth> winding wheels are a right fucker to draw
17:57:20  <Samu> they set it, but then forget about it?
17:58:06  <V453000> yeah I wouldn't do that
17:59:33  <Samu> "Default company password"
17:59:52  <Samu> i see some people don't yet realise what this do
18:02:00  <_dp_> hi, is there an easy way to see language strings that came with savegame (from gs)?
18:03:44  <Wolf01> bbl
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18:05:02  <Samu> i have an idea, don't use a button, but a checkbox, then next to it, say "always use this password on new companies"
18:05:18  <Samu> ppl then switch the checkbox on or off
18:05:24  <Samu> seems clearer
18:06:26  <andythenorth> balls
18:06:36  <andythenorth> the lower part of my mine is ground colour
18:06:45  <andythenorth> so it isn’t visible
18:08:58  <andythenorth> 'oops'
18:14:47  <Samu> or maybe "automatically use this password on new companies"
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18:29:59  <Alberth> _dp_ only the index numbers are in the savegame, I think, but not sure. Simplest way is to get the source of the GS for that version and look at the strings? :p
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18:41:01  <frosch123> _dp_: not sure what you want. but if you uncompress the savegame, you can find essentially the language files in the savegame
18:47:49  <_dp_> frosch123, yy, I tried uncompressing but couldn't figure out how do to that
18:47:59  <_dp_> frosch123, so I just added one printf))
18:48:21  <frosch123> there is a tool for uncompressing on dev/~frosch
18:48:37  <frosch123> it's linked from docs/desync.txt or so
19:06:27  <andythenorth>
19:07:30  <V453000> much nicer
19:08:19  <andythenorth> wheels can be animated, done already for coal mine
19:08:25  <andythenorth> and separate tile to train
19:08:30  <V453000> :)
19:08:40  <andythenorth> doesn’t look too similar?
19:09:41  <V453000> not at all
19:09:51  <V453000> consistent, but not similar
19:10:44  <andythenorth> winning
19:10:54  <andythenorth> this is good enough for manganese
19:11:09  <andythenorth> have to try an open pit for iron ore :P
19:11:14  <andythenorth> or at least a proper drift mine
19:11:26  <V453000> =D
19:11:35  <V453000> me is looking forward to see it
19:12:16  <andythenorth> depends if I can be arsed to repaint the yeti sprite
19:12:31  <andythenorth> it’s just right to make a mine that converted from small open pit to drift :P
19:12:45  <V453000> the yeti sprite isn't really that great tbh
19:16:24  <andythenorth> what don’t you like about it?
19:17:10  <V453000> puts the building too much in the corner, doesn't have any "elevated" space
19:17:11  <V453000> just a hole
19:17:18  <V453000> I would like more stuff around the actual hole
19:17:53  <andythenorth> oh yeah that
19:17:59  <andythenorth> you need some yetis mining
19:18:13  <V453000> I do
19:18:18  <V453000> 24hrs = short day
19:18:22  <andythenorth> you have that yellow truck thing in some industries, but you need some yeti digger
19:18:30  <V453000> hehe
19:18:31  <andythenorth> a chibi mining machine
19:18:43  <andythenorth> like FIRS uses cranes *everywhere* :P
19:18:48  <V453000> which is nice
19:19:08  <V453000> yeti faces similar problems as nuts does
19:19:19  <V453000> the graphics are very inconsistent
19:19:30  <V453000> as I just make stuff I like with aim to learn to make better stuff
19:19:36  <V453000> instead of aiming for the final product
19:19:44  <andythenorth> [shrug]
19:19:50  <andythenorth> you notice it, players don’t
19:19:59  <V453000> I'm not saying it is a bad thing, nor that I will do anything about it :P
19:20:04  <andythenorth> every set I make is inconsistent
19:20:39  <V453000> not nearly as much
19:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> ECS Vectors had inconsistent graphics for over a decade... i never heard anyone complain about it
19:22:05  <V453000> point is fair
19:22:24  <V453000> and since they use some of the FIRS graphics, it is 10 times worse imo
19:23:19  <andythenorth> I agree about iron mine building though
19:23:24  <andythenorth> not fitting
19:24:15  <Sylf> fuk
19:24:27  <Sylf> my food processing plant doesn't produce anything
19:24:36  <Sylf> useless
19:24:46  <Eddi|zuHause> did you deliver something?
19:24:59  <Sylf> yeah
19:25:13  <Eddi|zuHause> did it arrive at the right industry, and not somewhere nearby?
19:25:25  <Sylf> the game thinks there's no such cargo as FOOD
19:25:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds unfortunate
19:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably have a newgrf conflict
19:25:58  <Sylf> that is one boring world
19:26:03  <Sylf> nah
19:26:11  <Sylf> newgrf logic error
19:26:18  <Sylf> I'm trying to tweak YETI
19:26:35  <Eddi|zuHause> well, defining FOOD should be an easy task :p
19:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause> digital progress in germany:
19:27:33  <Sylf> aha.  cargo id conflict
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19:54:02  <Alberth> o/
19:55:13  <Wolf01> o/
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20:12:52  <supermop> yo
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22:04:57  <Samu> is it just me or is the bakewell lucket lb-8 model turning around a bit jumpy, misaligned?
22:05:02  <Samu> oops lb-11
22:06:19  <Samu> looks odd when it faces south direction
22:06:58  <Samu> the animation from SE to S or SW to S
22:07:36  <Samu> maybe it's just me?
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23:07:16  <Wolf01> gn
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