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07:56:10 <andythenorth> need to code it 07:59:55 <V453000> don't you have coding automated? 08:05:23 <andythenorth> that would be nice 08:05:29 <andythenorth> also drawing 08:06:15 <V453000> XD especially 08:20:21 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 08:28:03 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:28:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 08:30:21 *** ConductorCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 08:34:13 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@host157-194-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:34:43 <Wolf01> o/ 08:34:53 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:37:34 *** ConductCat [~Conductor@pool-108-56-8-121.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:37:43 <andythenorth> hai Wolf01 08:38:43 <Wolf01> meh, for just 1 part I might need to open the 42030's box :/ 08:51:40 <Wolf01> and I need to build a 5x5 frame with horizontal holes in center, 6 of them :/ 09:00:15 <V453000> special big assembling machine with holes for power poles at the center? 09:00:16 <V453000> innovative 09:01:48 <Wolf01> yes, and maybe it will be possible to fit a flux capacitor somewhere 09:02:41 <Wolf01> so you can build stuff with the resources from the past in the future! 09:04:06 <Wolf01> or with the resources from the future in the past, which makes more sense 09:10:11 <Wolf01> rekt! 09:10:22 <Wolf01> the moment when you miss the magic piece... 09:10:51 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:11:31 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@host-92-20-172-85.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 09:20:30 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:25:20 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 09:30:31 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:37:32 <Flygon> I do wish I could build bridges over stations, hahaha 09:38:24 <Wolf01> you are not the only one, my pokémon friend 09:39:12 <Flygon> P- oh right 09:39:17 <Flygon> My name's Flygon, lol 09:39:32 <Flygon> I've had this name for so long I forget it's a Pokemon 09:40:20 <Wolf01> I still play with the games 09:40:23 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 09:40:39 * Flygon nodnod 09:40:48 <Flygon> Doing that 4k*4k Hokkaido map 09:40:50 <Flygon> It's really nice 09:51:28 <Leanden> Hmmm well thats an interesting bug 09:51:41 <Leanden> someone might be able to help me with this 09:51:52 <Leanden> I have coded a steam train with a tender 09:52:26 <Leanden> It works absolutely fine, however if i place 2 of the trains into a consist, the second loco has two heads and no tender. 09:52:28 <peter1138> hmm, moving the pointer is buggy for me 09:52:33 <peter1138> (1.6.0) 09:52:54 <Leanden> i suspect there is something in my code I can do to prevent this 09:53:33 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 09:53:36 <Samu> hi 09:53:37 <Leanden> anyone know much about NML Trains? 09:53:58 <peter1138> is it just me? 09:54:05 <Leanden> I havent noticed any cursor issues 09:54:11 <Leanden> but then im not really using 1.6.0 yet 09:54:15 <Leanden> switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_articulated_GNRA1, extra_callback_info1) { 1: return item_GNRA1; //use same vehicle for all parts return CB_RESULT_NO_MORE_ARTICULATED_PARTS; //stop adding vehicle parts } 09:54:52 <Leanden> Is there anything i can put in here so that it ignores the rest of the train and only looks at the loco itself for position in consist? 09:55:11 <andythenorth> peter1138: define âbuggyâ? 09:55:32 <peter1138> bits are not drawn properly. if i move it fast the whole thing disappears. 09:56:00 <andythenorth> hmm, different bugs to the ones I see :P 09:56:19 <Samu> @logs 09:56:19 <DorpsGek> Samu: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 09:56:24 <andythenorth> I have variants of: system cursor shown; laggy ottd cursor; missing ottd cursor 09:56:37 <Leanden> Is it in both full screen and windowed mode peter? 09:56:38 <andythenorth> Leanden: you are switching graphics based on lead engine? 09:57:16 <Leanden> im using a position in consist switch 09:57:32 * andythenorth tries to remember if the cb was extended to allow looking only at the articulated consist 09:57:36 <andythenorth> it was discussed :P 09:58:07 <andythenorth> you can do it with offsets to the front part, but you have to piss about with some clunky reading of variables 09:58:15 <andythenorth> why not just use a different ID for tender? o_O 09:58:19 <peter1138> hmm 09:58:46 <peter1138> it's not doing it now 09:58:59 <peter1138> well, it is, but only once every couple of seconds instead of every frame 09:59:22 <Leanden> different ID for tender? 09:59:45 <Leanden> hold on let me get you a pastebin of the code so you can see where im at 09:59:53 <andythenorth> I can envisage it 10:00:07 <Samu> hmm what's up? 10:01:16 <Leanden> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppwusiqlh 10:01:36 <Leanden> well i believe im already using different IDs which is why you have me confused 10:01:48 <Leanden> the train itself works perfectly 10:02:03 <Leanden> but if i take two articulated trains in a double headed the train 10:02:11 <Leanden> the second tender is replaced by the head graphics 10:02:55 <Leanden> Ths sprites are selected by "position_in_consist" 10:03:44 <Leanden> but even if i extend these in multiples two in case of double headed trains, i still can't guarentee the positioning will always be correct, as if for example an extra wagon isnt added between the two locos 10:04:01 <andythenorth> afaict, thatâs a locomotive with a single ID, and two parts 10:04:24 <andythenorth> thereâs nothing wrong with this approach, but you could also do it with multiple IDs 10:04:32 <Leanden> if i seperate the tender in a seperate ID, won't you have to buy the tender seperately? 10:04:56 <andythenorth> no, not if itâs built as part of the articulated cb by another vehicle 10:05:19 <Leanden> hmmm, i havent found a switch in the NML documentation that adds another vehicle ID to the consist 10:05:23 <andythenorth> but if you want cargo subtype refits for liveries, the approach youâre using makes sense 10:05:32 <Leanden> ahh :P 10:05:43 <andythenorth> 1: return item_GNRA1 <- this is returning the ID 10:05:49 <andythenorth> you could return a different vehicle there 10:06:02 <andythenorth> you also set articulated consist trailing vehicles to climate none 10:06:04 <Leanden> oh i see 10:06:18 <Leanden> but then if you want to refit the livery 10:06:24 <Leanden> you'd have to do the tender and loco seperately? 10:06:43 <andythenorth> no, the tender would have to read the subtype from the lead vehicle of the consist 10:06:50 <andythenorth> it comes to about the same either way 10:07:22 <Leanden> so how would i get the tender to read the loco subtype? 10:08:38 <Leanden> if i returned additional IDs in that way 10:08:51 <Leanden> i wouldnt need the position_in_consist switch at all would i? 10:11:21 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:12:06 <andythenorth> you would 10:12:15 <andythenorth> but youâd use it to read the subtype in the front vehicle 10:12:48 <andythenorth> hmm, actually the trailing vehicles might pick up the subtype when theyâre built or refitted, I canât remember 10:13:03 <andythenorth> try it? o_O 10:13:13 * andythenorth hasnât used subtypes for a long time 10:16:51 <Leanden> testing now ;) 10:18:21 <Samu> i found a way to shut down my system while keeping company passwords of clients 10:18:27 <Samu> hibernate 10:19:01 <Samu> it worked! 10:19:09 <Leanden> lol 10:19:13 <Leanden> hmmm Andy 10:19:27 <Leanden> i changed what i thought what fix the issue, but i now have 2 heads and 1 tender :P 10:19:33 <Leanden> with only a single loco lol 10:20:15 <Leanden> ahhh i know why ;) 10:21:47 <Leanden> Nailed it :D 10:21:53 <Wolf01> hibernate is not shut down :) 10:22:11 <Leanden> no its not 10:22:25 <Leanden> but i pretty much exclusively use hibernate on my PC :D 10:22:57 <Wolf01> when it works and restores network, audio... 10:22:58 <Samu> it shuts down, everything was turned off 10:23:59 <Leanden> no shutting down explicitly refers to wiping all memory from your computer to a fresh state 10:24:00 <Samu> i even turned off my router 10:24:19 <Samu> today i turned both on, everything is back to yesterday 10:24:22 <Leanden> Hibernate takes a screenshot of the status of your RAM and stores it on the hard drive, and then recalls this image when you boot up 10:24:40 <Leanden> in a very basic explanation :) 10:25:02 <Samu> i wonder what would happen if i had received a different IP address though 10:25:04 <Leanden> Its like pausing your computer :P 10:26:53 <Leanden> Andy 10:26:54 <Leanden> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74766&p=1168065#p1168065 10:27:09 <Leanden> Andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74766&p=1168065#p1168065 10:28:05 <Leanden> It was quite easy to link the liveries together 10:28:20 <Leanden> I set the Tender ID as the articulated part of the main engine 10:28:56 <andythenorth> yes 10:29:00 <Leanden> gave it its own cargo_subtype switch 10:29:16 <Leanden> but placed the cargo_subtype_text switch into the main engine ID 10:29:23 <andythenorth> yes 10:29:30 <Leanden> and lo and behold the refit affects both vehicle_IDs 10:29:41 <Leanden> (but not the whole consist) :D 10:29:56 <andythenorth> trailing parts of an articulated consist take some properties from the lead articulated vehicle 10:30:49 <Leanden> indeed 10:30:54 <Leanden> well im glad i have that cracked 10:33:44 <Samu> NoCAB just sold all trains, he's in the process of upgrading tracks, interesting 10:33:59 <Samu> this is where he usually crashes, let's see what happens 10:34:08 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 10:36:00 <Leanden> andythenorth: are you still with us? i want some quick advice on pnml 10:36:28 <andythenorth> sure 10:36:43 <Leanden> im going to split my NML file down into seperate pnml 10:36:43 <planetmaker> moin 10:36:58 <Leanden> but i have two ideas and wondering which is more standard/accepted 10:37:19 <Leanden> put each train in a seperate pnml, including all its switchs 10:37:53 <Leanden> or split each code block type, livery_switch, articulated_switch, sprite_set etc. into a seperate pnml 10:38:06 *** dvim [~uid22238@id-22238.tooting.irccloud.com] has joined #openttd 10:38:16 <planetmaker> a separate file for each switch etc? That's madness 10:38:33 <andythenorth> nah 10:38:44 <planetmaker> The idea to split code in different files is to allow *easier* finding of the interesting part or buggy part of whatever 10:38:47 <andythenorth> splitting the switches is ok, if you have a reason 10:38:49 <Leanden> no each type of switch 10:39:02 <Leanden> so all the articulated switches in a single pnml file 10:39:10 <Leanden> all the livery switches in another 10:39:25 <andythenorth> Leanden: have you seen how the templating works in pnml? 10:40:46 <Samu> NoCAB upgraded all tracks, but only got 3 trains out, he had 23 trains before :( hmm he's really slow 10:40:56 <Leanden> hmmm sprite templating or something else? :P 10:41:03 <andythenorth> code templating 10:41:17 <andythenorth> basically, until you understand the templating, youâre not gaining anything from pnml or similar 10:41:24 <andythenorth> youâd just be moving code around to different files 10:41:32 <andythenorth> in which case, one file per vehicle is best 10:41:34 <planetmaker> ah. Well. That might be a matter of personal taste, Leanden. Using an appropriate sprite template with the right parameter (e.g. a filename) might actually make all your switches for all the vehicles the same - except the filename parameter given 10:41:49 * andythenorth wonders if there is a good example set to look at 10:42:48 <planetmaker> Anyhow, not everything refers to sprites, and then NML templating won't help much 10:43:11 * andythenorth lost in HEQS 10:43:19 <andythenorth> wow, that was a bad approach 10:43:19 <planetmaker> And then the grouping by function (e.g. all refit switches) or grouping by vehicle (everything related to one) is more a matter of personal preference 10:43:32 <Leanden> i use sprite templates already 10:44:00 <Leanden> saves me rewriting all the offsets, widths, etc. etc. 10:44:27 <Leanden> well ive seen how SBB breaks down their pnml 10:44:36 <Leanden> but it just seems spread out for the sake of spreading out 10:45:53 <Leanden> my understanding is that with reference to each vehicle, as long as the switches come before the item before the graphics, and you dont reference an ID that hasn't yet been reached in the code, then it doesnt matter about the order 10:46:23 <Leanden> so you could go: Train 1 Switch, Train 1 Item, Train 1 Graphics, Train 2 Switch, Train 2 Item, Train 2 Graphics, etc. etc. 10:47:18 <andythenorth> if I were in your place, Iâd just do it like HEQS for now 10:47:31 <andythenorth> one file per vehicle, donât bother templating the switches etc 10:47:39 <andythenorth> write all the nml out longhand 10:47:54 <andythenorth> reasons: 10:48:12 <andythenorth> (1) if youâve never used a code templating system before, the C macro system is not a very pleasant place to start 10:48:16 <Leanden> oh i get what you mean by tempalting now 10:48:28 <andythenorth> (2) learning all this slows you down and makes it harder to make initial progress 10:48:28 <Leanden> ye i dont like templating code as a rule 10:48:43 <Leanden> id much prefer to write all my code out in full 10:48:47 <andythenorth> (3) you donât know what templates you need until you have coded a range of common cases 10:49:48 <Leanden> :) 10:50:40 <andythenorth> I would not work without templates personally, but I have learnt from writing nml and nfo out longhand 10:51:01 <andythenorth> this is the properties block for *every* train in Iron Horse http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/templates/train_properties.pynml 10:51:12 <andythenorth> thereâs one and only one 10:52:13 <Leanden> yeah i dont like that 10:52:27 <Leanden> to me it gives you less visibility on exactly what is going on 10:52:46 <andythenorth> you have to hold two languages in your head at once 10:53:18 <andythenorth> ok, well just split all your vehicles to individual files 10:53:26 <andythenorth> and use includes to turn them on and off 10:53:34 <Leanden> yup thanks :) 10:53:37 <andythenorth> it can be very useful for debugging, or when you want to compile fast 10:53:57 <Leanden> i assume that the order you include them is the order they will appear in the purchase list? 10:54:13 <andythenorth> nah, default order is by ID 10:54:20 <andythenorth> ah, youâre allowing nml to manage IDs? 10:54:30 <Leanden> yep 10:54:40 <Leanden> thats what the tutorial recommended 10:54:40 <andythenorth> ok, that means if you change the order of includes, you break savegames 10:55:01 <Leanden> ooo thats interesting to know 10:55:06 <andythenorth> so you (1) canât change the order unless you bump savegame (2) canât turn includes on and off for debugging 10:55:26 <Leanden> so i should be adding my own IDs then? 10:55:26 <andythenorth> you can manage IDs explicitly, which C macro templating is quite good at 10:55:30 <andythenorth> up to you 10:55:38 <andythenorth> you could centralise them into one file 10:55:39 <Leanden> is it just number IDs? 10:55:42 <andythenorth> yes 10:55:47 <Leanden> hmmm 10:56:11 <Leanden> well breaking down into pnml now is going to break savegame compatibility anyway once i add the IDs 10:56:18 <andythenorth> item(FEAT_TRAINS, kessler, 1990) { 10:56:23 <andythenorth> 1990 is the ID 10:56:37 <Leanden> well i have an idea for that 10:56:42 <Leanden> whats the highest number an ID can take? 10:57:10 <andythenorth> depends 10:57:31 <andythenorth> around 16000 is the limit if you want to use it as trailing part of articulated vehicle 10:57:41 <andythenorth> you have âenoughâ though 10:57:51 <Leanden> im not worried about how many 10:57:55 <Leanden> i mean the explicity number itself 10:58:06 <Leanden> could i have 999999 for example 10:58:12 <Leanden> even if the total number of IDs is less than 16000? 10:58:53 <andythenorth> check the spec :) 10:58:57 * andythenorth canât remember 10:58:59 <Leanden> lol 10:59:00 <andythenorth> newgrf wiki knows 10:59:22 <andythenorth> but max ID number for articulated trailing parts is around 16000 10:59:45 <andythenorth> you *can* centralise IDs to one file, http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/ids.pnfo 11:00:00 <andythenorth> but I found that was only helpful for nfo; for nml, better to put the ID directly into the vehicle file 11:02:54 <Leanden> i have an idea for a system on how to define the numerical ID 11:03:03 <Leanden> but i want to see if NML will actually accept it first :P 11:04:33 <andythenorth> I tried systems 11:04:37 <andythenorth> I wouldnât bother 11:04:43 <Leanden> xx-yy-zz 11:04:49 <andythenorth> nope 11:04:53 <Leanden> xx being a company identifier 11:04:53 <andythenorth> has to be a number, int 11:04:58 <Leanden> yy being the year of production 11:05:04 <andythenorth> itâs converted to a hexadecimal value 11:05:05 <Leanden> and zz being an incremental number for that year 11:05:12 <Leanden> so for example 016901 11:05:27 <andythenorth> itâs overkill 11:05:31 <andythenorth> just start at one and work up 11:06:08 <Leanden> unfortunately its not, because of the scope of the set, i can't predict when im going to add trains earlier in the list otherwise the production list will look ridiculous 11:06:13 <andythenorth> you end up chasing your tail with fancy ID systems 11:06:26 <andythenorth> you can control buy menu separately 11:06:33 <Leanden> you can!?! 11:06:34 <andythenorth> literally one big nml block 11:06:52 <Leanden> oh well balls to it then, i dont need to even change the order of #include in that case :p 11:07:04 <andythenorth> sort(FEAT_TRAINS, [1990, 2060, 2040, 2070, 2050, 2080, 2000, 2010, 1840, 1970, 1800, 1960, 1620, 2030, 1870, 2020, 1980, 1790, 1610, 1590, 1600, 1550, 1540, 1580, 1560, 1730, 1760, 1770, 1750, 1740, 1630, 1660, 1670, 1680, 1720, 1690, 1700, 1570, 1640, 1650, 1780, 2130, 1940, 2120, 1950, 2090, 1830, 1820, 2100, 1850, 1860, 1890, 1910, 1920, 2150, 1900, 2140, 2110, 1930, 1880, 90, 20, 340, 150, 310, 40, 370, 510, 180, 11:07:04 <andythenorth> 80, 410, 440, 250, 350, 60, 1460, 1440, 260, 320, 50, 540, 200, 400, 10, 30, 330, 1470, 1480, 1490, 780, 790, 800, 960, 970, 980, 860, 1330, 590, 600, 610, 1100, 1110, 660, 670, 680, 1250, 1260, 1040, 1430, 1210, 1220, 1390, 1400, 1180, 1510, 1300, 810, 1350, 1370, 990, 1380, 1450, 870, 1320, 620, 1310, 1120, 1130, 690, 1360, 1050, 1520, 1410, 1420, 520, 1500, 110, 480, 380, 70, 230, 0, 390, 500, 300, 270, 170, 120, 4 11:07:05 <Leanden> but i suppose i should still use IDs in case i need to remove any 11:07:05 <andythenorth> 280, 220, 450, 100, 160, 130, 470, 530, 460, 360, 210, 290, 490, 240, 140, 430, 880, 740, 750, 760, 920, 930, 940, 1000, 820, 830, 840, 550, 560, 570, 1070, 1080, 1090, 630, 640, 1270, 1230, 1240, 1010, 1020, 1190, 1200, 730, 720, 1060, 1140, 1150, 1160, 890, 900, 910, 710, 700, 1530, 1280, 770, 950, 850, 580, 650, 1030, 1170, 1290]); 11:07:12 <andythenorth> buy menu for Iron Horse :P 11:07:16 <Leanden> haha 11:07:16 <andythenorth> should have pastebinned that :P 11:07:35 <andythenorth> do your IDs starting at 1 11:07:46 <andythenorth> and do your includes in alphabetical order, imho 11:07:52 <andythenorth> and do the buy menu order manually 11:11:17 <Leanden> :) 11:11:27 <Leanden> thanks for your help andy 11:11:40 <Leanden> I should probably credit you as a coder after all your help :P 11:11:51 <andythenorth> nah 11:12:37 <andythenorth> Leanden: test your refit code early with things like autoreplace and station refit 11:12:51 <andythenorth> I had a lot of trouble trying to abuse refit, and I donât bother anymore 11:12:58 <Leanden> ive disabled station refit on the locomotives 11:13:14 <Leanden> as it doesnt make sense to me that a loco should be able to change at a station 11:22:49 <Leanden> ugh 11:22:56 <Leanden> im having a different issue but i cant look into it right now 11:23:08 <Leanden> my makefile was set up to produce from an nml file 11:23:11 <Leanden> not with pnml 11:23:22 <Leanden> how do i modify it now to use pnml instead? :P 11:24:28 <andythenorth> makefile has evolved over time 11:24:40 <andythenorth> HEQS one is very old, but uses âMAIN_SRC_FILE ?= $(BASE_FILENAME).pnmlâ 11:24:50 <andythenorth> with a comment 11:24:52 <andythenorth> # uncomment MAIN_SRC_FILE if you do not want any preprocessing to happen to your source file 11:26:14 <Leanden> got a cc error 11:26:16 <Leanden> Error 127 11:27:26 <Leanden> hmm 11:27:35 <Leanden> it isnt looking for the pnml 11:27:44 <andythenorth> planetmaker is your best bet for makefile help, but he might be busy :) 11:28:07 <Leanden> gotta go 11:33:50 <andythenorth> more win from Garry G http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1168069#p1168069 11:36:11 *** Leanden [~oftc-webi@bcdc36c7.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:36:25 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 12:03:29 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:10:31 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:21:30 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200.102.236.238] has joined #openttd 12:31:23 <Wolf01> andythenorth, do you have some info about making a contained joystick for the pf controllers? I need to put 3 of them really close, and the one I found doesn't work well 12:32:26 <andythenorth> nah 12:32:32 <andythenorth> there are designs around though? 12:32:35 <andythenorth> flickr? 12:32:51 <Wolf01> yeah, but they are big or wobbly 12:39:24 <Wolf01> I know I'll end up with something like this: https://youtu.be/r6_CUtmS_Pc?t=22s 12:40:32 <peter1138> pom te pom 12:55:32 <planetmaker> <Leanden> id much prefer to write all my code out in full <-- then just do that 12:55:45 <planetmaker> oh, he's gone 13:01:06 *** MonkeyDronez [~Monkey@217.17.231.101] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10:51 <andythenorth> o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7805/manganese_mine_animated.mov 13:11:29 <V453000> OMG IT MOOOOVS 13:12:20 <andythenorth> animation cat 13:12:38 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:30:39 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:36:06 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@200.102.236.238] has joined #openttd 13:36:06 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200.102.236.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:52 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:36 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@host-92-20-172-85.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:47:07 *** Islacrusez [~m4rek@79-68-240-242.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:50:11 <supermop> yo 13:51:01 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 13:51:42 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-176.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 14:02:38 <argoneus> good morning train friends 14:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> does it ever MOOO? 14:12:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:25:45 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:36:20 *** Logaritm [~Logaritm@82.99.27.120] has joined #openttd 14:36:31 *** Alberth [~alberth@a82-95-140-173.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:36:34 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:36:55 *** Logaritm [~Logaritm@82.99.27.120] has left #openttd [] 14:47:39 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:50:03 <Alberth> o/ 14:57:04 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:6535:8414:4591:3b98] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:30 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 15:08:34 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 15:17:03 <supermop> rail types are newgrf bullshit huh 15:18:12 <V453000> ? 15:18:24 <V453000> like you cant have it in base set 15:18:28 <V453000> you mean? 15:20:13 <Alberth> nobody forces you to use them :) 15:25:05 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@c7815BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 15:32:03 <supermop> no thats a quote from forum 15:32:54 <supermop> "No one is forcing you to use the new track types. So many great and doable ideas have been smothered by the "there's a NewGRF for it bulls***"! Seriously! how long do you want this game to be unchanged for?" 15:34:31 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@cE6A03E56.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 15:36:28 <Alberth> ah :) well, that's easy, "forever" :) 15:36:44 <V453000> XD 15:36:46 <V453000> g 15:36:47 <V453000> g 15:38:42 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-176.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:46 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:10 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:47:35 <Alberth> the author seems a bit confused about how openttd gets extended 15:57:00 <FLHerne> Well, I do sympathise a bit. There are a lot of useful non-newgrfable patches that have been floating around for years. 15:57:26 <FLHerne> But for the kind of features he's on about...nah, clueless 16:01:19 <Alberth> good post :) 16:05:59 <_dp_> imo worst thing about newgrfs is that they're way too often used as an excuse for not adding anything to the base game 16:06:50 <FLHerne> Examples of what I'm muttering about: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=836749, http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42598, http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72855 16:07:22 <_dp_> even for stuff that being done with newgrfs is ugly as hell and completely impractical 16:07:44 <FLHerne> Small, clean patches that add uncontroversial features, that can be easily applied to current trunk 16:08:12 <FLHerne> Not being an OTTD dev, it's hard to see why these need to be left alone for years 16:08:50 <FLHerne> I know Eddi's can crash vehicles immediately on loading a new savegame, but those vehicles were *already* doomed by the current LC behaviour 16:17:52 *** FLHerne_ [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that, it's vehicles that were previously perfectly safe also just run into a train in front of them 16:19:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which is "only" a problem for old savegames, but one that should not just be ignored 16:20:37 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:00 <_dp_> make "invincible" flag for vehicles? 16:27:59 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, one option would be to make two different closed states for crossings 16:28:20 <_dp_> or, mb, flag for using old signal behaviour 16:28:33 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 16:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause> a "closed" flag for the entire crossing, and an "unsafe" flag for the crossing where actually a train is on 16:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> a "closed" tile will allow a vehicle to enter if coming from another "closed" tile 16:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and an "unsafe" flag will not allow a vehicle to enter regardless 16:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> where "unsafe" is the old behaviour, and "closed" the new one introduced by that patch 16:30:55 <_dp_> oh, I know the simplest solution, add game setting for using adjacent crossings 16:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm very against that 16:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with the "unsafe" approach is that it will break again when a long tram suddenly stops in the middle of the track 16:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or with the follow-up patch of "diagonal crossings" 16:36:14 <_dp_> anyway, you need to combine both mechanics 16:37:06 <_dp_> so, what about per-vehicle flag then? set it for some rv in old saves, and reset at some point (rv leaving signal block) 16:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that could work 16:38:31 <_dp_> hm, what if more crossings are added while vehicle already entered block? 16:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a user error and of no concern 16:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> like modifying signals with trains nearby, if a train crashes, it's the player's fault 16:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> not the game's responsibility to fix 16:41:45 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:44:41 <_dp_> yeah 16:45:12 <_dp_> I misinterpreted this patch at first, it's not like it competely prevents crashing, just adds a way to do save crossings 16:45:28 <_dp_> *safe 16:47:39 <_dp_> or, rather, slightly more safe 16:47:54 <_dp_> if rv breaks down on rail it's doomed anyway 16:49:24 *** srhnsn [~srhnsn@HSI-KBW-5-56-185-40.hsi16.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 16:49:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't help with that :p 16:50:26 <_dp_> well, technically, you can stop train but... 16:50:28 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-176.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 16:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that's getting a bit complicated 16:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and stops it from being a "small, clean patch" 16:51:15 <_dp_> also unrealistic :p 16:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not actually unrealistic 16:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> some level crossings have a signal whether the crossing safely closed 16:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and if that is not on, the train must stop before the crossing, and manually check it's safe 16:53:16 <_dp_> but trains braking is unrealistic in openttd :p 16:53:27 <peter1138> fix it! 16:56:31 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:56:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:57:46 <_dp_> better not, that would break everything 17:09:29 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 17:11:09 <FLHerne_> Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, was afk 17:11:18 <FLHerne_> <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that, it's vehicles that were previously perfectly safe also just run into a train in front of them 17:11:39 <FLHerne_> That was what I meant by "those vehicles were *already* doomed by the current LC behaviour" 17:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> how are they "doomed"? 17:12:10 <FLHerne_> With the current setup, any vehicle crossing a double-track line is going to be destroyed eventually 17:12:27 <Eddi|zuHause> any 8/8 vehicle parked between two rails is safe 17:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause> only longer vehicles, or a second vehicle is "doomed" 17:12:55 <FLHerne_> RVs have a tendency to clump, though 17:13:04 <Eddi|zuHause> sure. 17:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's not relevant. 17:13:48 <FLHerne_> Okay, the majority of vehicles crossing a double-track line are doomed, unless the operator was really careful to timetable things 17:15:10 <FLHerne_> I still think a few lost vehicles, many of which were going to be squashed anyway at some point, isn't worth the years of lost vehicles that we get :P 17:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> again. that's irrelevant to the problem. SOME vehicles that were SAFE in the original safegame are DOOMED, when loaded with this patch 17:15:38 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a regression 17:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and thus not allowed to happen with a "clean" patch 17:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hence the patch is not "clean" 17:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> gtg 17:18:16 <FLHerne_> Ok, bye :-) 17:18:21 *** FLHerne_ is now known as FLHerne 17:22:30 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-176.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:32:29 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C02F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:47:21 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@a85-139-90-240.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 17:47:52 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: just automatically crash all player vehicles on load regardless of if they are near a crossing 17:48:12 <V453000> I like it 17:48:46 <Alberth> call it new disaster 17:49:11 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@a85-139-90-240.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [] 17:57:46 <supermop> improved breakdowns: train explodes for no reason 17:59:51 <V453000> also blows up tracks under it? 18:05:35 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:06:18 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@a85-139-90-240.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 18:07:23 <supermop> some times the train blows up, sometimes the tracks 18:07:25 <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8247 <- is that answer subtle enough? :p 18:08:07 <supermop> sometime train derails and drives into an industry and blows up your high-production steel mill 18:09:11 <Samu> i swithed to another ISP, servers aren't being recognized by the master server 18:09:24 <Samu> t.t port forwarding is hard 18:16:21 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@a85-139-90-240.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:16:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:18:50 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@a85-139-90-240.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 18:27:32 <Alberth> o/ 18:27:36 <andythenorth> o/ 18:31:00 <frosch123> hoi 18:36:17 <Wolf01> o/ 18:38:15 <Wolf01> nice one frosch ;) 18:39:12 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.111.243] has joined #openttd 18:43:35 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A185CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:46:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:47:00 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 18:52:03 <planetmaker> o/ 18:52:15 <planetmaker> loool, frosch123 @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8247 18:53:55 <frosch123> just to add: i looked at the locale setting in the user's profile. i am not completely retarded :) 18:56:54 <Wolf01> so you'll look like a wizard to him 18:58:11 <Wolf01> maybe he really wanted to translate the placeholder language 19:00:10 <planetmaker> thought so :) 19:04:23 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 19:06:57 *** srhnsn [~srhnsn@HSI-KBW-5-56-185-40.hsi16.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:19 *** srhnsn [~srhnsn@vpnhost-114-014.vpn.hs-heilbronn.de] has joined #openttd 19:10:56 <Wolf01> could I apply for translating in qps-ploc? 19:11:59 <frosch123> https://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/goglobal/bb964664.aspx <- is it listed on that page? 19:12:46 <frosch123> and in iso 639-1 ? 19:13:13 <Wolf01> it's a language used by Microsoft to test the UI 19:13:16 <Wolf01> https://msdn.microsoft.com/it-it/library/windows/desktop/dd319106(v=vs.85).aspx 19:16:19 <Wolf01> http://archives.miloush.net/michkap/archive/2011/04/11/10152035.html 19:23:32 <V453000> nice frosch123 :D 19:26:39 <andythenorth> iz new gamescript yet? o_O 19:26:43 * andythenorth wants to play a game 19:53:27 *** srhnsn_ [~srhnsn@HSI-KBW-5-56-185-40.hsi16.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 20:00:38 *** srhnsn [~srhnsn@vpnhost-114-014.vpn.hs-heilbronn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:39 <andythenorth> oops, forgot to re-apply my tropic landscape patch 20:05:21 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:f1e6:a81e:e629:43af] has joined #openttd 20:05:38 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 20:08:43 *** Quatroking_ [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 20:12:33 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5c85b.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 20:15:34 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:22 *** mykoserocin [~mykoseroc@000214a6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 20:38:52 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@50-37-101-113.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 20:49:42 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:50:24 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 20:50:46 *** Alberth [~alberth@a82-95-140-173.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:57:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A185CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:25 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #openttd 21:20:53 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:27:28 *** srhnsn_ [~srhnsn@HSI-KBW-5-56-185-40.hsi16.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: srhnsn_] 21:34:49 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:16 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:43 *** Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:20 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5c85b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:02:59 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:04:59 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 22:11:29 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@25.103.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 22:15:39 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> man, frosch read that request all wrong. he clearly asked to be a translator for the "insert" language. 22:38:58 <Supercheese> hahaha 22:44:30 <Wolf01> :) 22:45:16 <Wolf01> also, 'night 22:45:20 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has left #openttd [] 23:07:10 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 23:25:08 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@a85-139-90-240.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:43:39 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 23:43:43 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 23:51:51 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:47 *** Quatroking_ [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:35 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:59:14 *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.111.243] has joined #openttd 23:59:21 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #openttd