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Log for #openttd on 2nd May 2016:
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07:50:47  <andythenorth> o/
07:55:40  <V453000> mine mined enough yet?
07:56:10  <andythenorth> need to code it
07:59:55  <V453000> don't you have coding automated?
08:05:23  <andythenorth> that would be nice
08:05:29  <andythenorth> also drawing
08:06:15  <V453000> XD especially
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08:34:43  <Wolf01> o/
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08:37:43  <andythenorth> hai Wolf01
08:38:43  <Wolf01> meh, for just 1 part I might need to open the 42030's box :/
08:51:40  <Wolf01> and I need to build a 5x5 frame with horizontal holes in center, 6 of them :/
09:00:15  <V453000> special big assembling machine with holes for power poles at the center?
09:00:16  <V453000> innovative
09:01:48  <Wolf01> yes, and maybe it will be possible to fit a flux capacitor somewhere
09:02:41  <Wolf01> so you can build stuff with the resources from the past in the future!
09:04:06  <Wolf01> or with the resources from the future in the past, which makes more sense
09:10:11  <Wolf01> rekt!
09:10:22  <Wolf01> the moment when you miss the magic piece...
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09:37:32  <Flygon> I do wish I could build bridges over stations, hahaha
09:38:24  <Wolf01> you are not the only one, my pokémon friend
09:39:12  <Flygon> P- oh right
09:39:17  <Flygon> My name's Flygon, lol
09:39:32  <Flygon> I've had this name for so long I forget it's a Pokemon
09:40:20  <Wolf01> I still play with the games
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09:40:39  * Flygon nodnod
09:40:48  <Flygon> Doing that 4k*4k Hokkaido map
09:40:50  <Flygon> It's really nice
09:51:28  <Leanden> Hmmm well thats an interesting bug
09:51:41  <Leanden> someone might be able to help me with this
09:51:52  <Leanden> I have coded a steam train with a tender
09:52:26  <Leanden> It works absolutely fine, however if i place 2 of the trains into a consist, the second loco has two heads and no tender.
09:52:28  <peter1138> hmm, moving the pointer is buggy for me
09:52:33  <peter1138> (1.6.0)
09:52:54  <Leanden> i suspect there is something in my code I can do to prevent this
09:53:33  *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
09:53:36  <Samu> hi
09:53:37  <Leanden> anyone know much about NML Trains?
09:53:58  <peter1138> is it just me?
09:54:05  <Leanden> I havent noticed any cursor issues
09:54:11  <Leanden> but then im not really using 1.6.0 yet
09:54:15  <Leanden> switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_articulated_GNRA1, extra_callback_info1) {     1: return item_GNRA1; //use same vehicle for all parts     return CB_RESULT_NO_MORE_ARTICULATED_PARTS; //stop adding vehicle parts }
09:54:52  <Leanden> Is there anything i can put in here so that it ignores the rest of the train and only looks at the loco itself for position in consist?
09:55:11  <andythenorth> peter1138: define ‘buggy’?
09:55:32  <peter1138> bits are not drawn properly. if i move it fast the whole thing disappears.
09:56:00  <andythenorth> hmm, different bugs to the ones I see :P
09:56:19  <Samu> @logs
09:56:19  <DorpsGek> Samu: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
09:56:24  <andythenorth> I have variants of: system cursor shown; laggy ottd cursor; missing ottd cursor
09:56:37  <Leanden> Is it in both full screen and windowed mode peter?
09:56:38  <andythenorth> Leanden: you are switching graphics based on lead engine?
09:57:16  <Leanden> im using a position in consist switch
09:57:32  * andythenorth tries to remember if the cb was extended to allow looking only at the articulated consist
09:57:36  <andythenorth> it was discussed :P
09:58:07  <andythenorth> you can do it with offsets to the front part, but you have to piss about with some clunky reading of variables
09:58:15  <andythenorth> why not just use a different ID for tender? o_O
09:58:19  <peter1138> hmm
09:58:46  <peter1138> it's not doing it now
09:58:59  <peter1138> well, it is, but only once every couple of seconds instead of every frame
09:59:22  <Leanden> different ID for tender?
09:59:45  <Leanden> hold on let me get you a pastebin of the code so you can see where im at
09:59:53  <andythenorth> I can envisage it
10:00:07  <Samu> hmm what's up?
10:01:16  <Leanden> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppwusiqlh
10:01:36  <Leanden> well i believe im already using different IDs which is why you have me confused
10:01:48  <Leanden> the train itself works perfectly
10:02:03  <Leanden> but if i take two articulated trains in a double headed the train
10:02:11  <Leanden> the second tender is replaced by the head graphics
10:02:55  <Leanden> Ths sprites are selected by "position_in_consist"
10:03:44  <Leanden> but even if i extend these in multiples two in case of double headed trains, i still can't guarentee the positioning will always be correct, as if for example an extra wagon isnt added between the two locos
10:04:01  <andythenorth> afaict, that’s a locomotive with a single ID, and two parts
10:04:24  <andythenorth> there’s nothing wrong with this approach, but you could also do it with multiple IDs
10:04:32  <Leanden> if i seperate the tender in a seperate ID, won't you have to buy the tender seperately?
10:04:56  <andythenorth> no, not if it’s built as part of the articulated cb by another vehicle
10:05:19  <Leanden> hmmm, i havent found a switch in the NML documentation that adds another vehicle ID to the consist
10:05:23  <andythenorth> but if you want cargo subtype refits for liveries, the approach you’re using makes sense
10:05:32  <Leanden> ahh :P
10:05:43  <andythenorth> 1: return item_GNRA1 <- this is returning the ID
10:05:49  <andythenorth> you could return a different vehicle there
10:06:02  <andythenorth> you also set articulated consist trailing vehicles to climate none
10:06:04  <Leanden> oh i see
10:06:18  <Leanden> but then if you want to refit the livery
10:06:24  <Leanden> you'd have to do the tender and loco seperately?
10:06:43  <andythenorth> no, the tender would have to read the subtype from the lead vehicle of the consist
10:06:50  <andythenorth> it comes to about the same either way
10:07:22  <Leanden> so how would i get the tender to read the loco subtype?
10:08:38  <Leanden> if i returned additional IDs in that way
10:08:51  <Leanden> i wouldnt need the position_in_consist switch at all would i?
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10:12:06  <andythenorth> you would
10:12:15  <andythenorth> but you’d use it to read the subtype in the front vehicle
10:12:48  <andythenorth> hmm, actually the trailing vehicles might pick up the subtype when they’re built or refitted, I can’t remember
10:13:03  <andythenorth> try it? o_O
10:13:13  * andythenorth hasn’t used subtypes for a long time
10:16:51  <Leanden> testing now ;)
10:18:21  <Samu> i found a way to shut down my system while keeping company passwords of clients
10:18:27  <Samu> hibernate
10:19:01  <Samu> it worked!
10:19:09  <Leanden> lol
10:19:13  <Leanden> hmmm Andy
10:19:27  <Leanden> i changed what i thought what fix the issue, but i now have 2 heads and 1 tender :P
10:19:33  <Leanden> with only a single loco lol
10:20:15  <Leanden> ahhh i know why ;)
10:21:47  <Leanden> Nailed it :D
10:21:53  <Wolf01> hibernate is not shut down :)
10:22:11  <Leanden> no its not
10:22:25  <Leanden> but i pretty much exclusively use hibernate on my PC :D
10:22:57  <Wolf01> when it works and restores network, audio...
10:22:58  <Samu> it shuts down, everything was turned off
10:23:59  <Leanden> no shutting down explicitly refers to wiping all memory from your computer to a fresh state
10:24:00  <Samu> i even turned off my router
10:24:19  <Samu> today i turned both on, everything is back to yesterday
10:24:22  <Leanden> Hibernate takes a screenshot of the status of your RAM and stores it on the hard drive, and then recalls this image when you boot up
10:24:40  <Leanden> in a very basic explanation :)
10:25:02  <Samu> i wonder what would happen if i had received a different IP address though
10:25:04  <Leanden> Its like pausing your computer :P
10:26:53  <Leanden> Andy
10:26:54  <Leanden> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74766&p=1168065#p1168065
10:27:09  <Leanden> Andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74766&p=1168065#p1168065
10:28:05  <Leanden> It was quite easy to link the liveries together
10:28:20  <Leanden> I set the Tender ID as the articulated part of the main engine
10:28:56  <andythenorth> yes
10:29:00  <Leanden> gave it its own cargo_subtype switch
10:29:16  <Leanden> but placed the cargo_subtype_text switch into the main engine ID
10:29:23  <andythenorth> yes
10:29:30  <Leanden> and lo and behold the refit affects both vehicle_IDs
10:29:41  <Leanden> (but not the whole consist) :D
10:29:56  <andythenorth> trailing parts of an articulated consist take some properties from the lead articulated vehicle
10:30:49  <Leanden> indeed
10:30:54  <Leanden> well im glad i have that cracked
10:33:44  <Samu> NoCAB just sold all trains, he's in the process of upgrading tracks, interesting
10:33:59  <Samu> this is where he usually crashes, let's see what happens
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10:36:00  <Leanden> andythenorth: are you still with us? i want some quick advice on pnml
10:36:28  <andythenorth> sure
10:36:43  <Leanden> im going to split my NML file down into seperate pnml
10:36:43  <planetmaker> moin
10:36:58  <Leanden> but i have two ideas and wondering which is more standard/accepted
10:37:19  <Leanden> put each train in a seperate pnml, including all its switchs
10:37:53  <Leanden> or split each code block type, livery_switch, articulated_switch, sprite_set etc. into a seperate pnml
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10:38:16  <planetmaker> a separate file for each switch etc? That's madness
10:38:33  <andythenorth> nah
10:38:44  <planetmaker> The idea to split code in different files is to allow *easier* finding of the interesting part or buggy part of whatever
10:38:47  <andythenorth> splitting the switches is ok, if you have a reason
10:38:49  <Leanden> no each type of switch
10:39:02  <Leanden> so all the articulated switches in a single pnml file
10:39:10  <Leanden> all the livery switches in another
10:39:25  <andythenorth> Leanden: have you seen how the templating works in pnml?
10:40:46  <Samu> NoCAB upgraded all tracks, but only got 3 trains out, he had 23 trains before :( hmm he's really slow
10:40:56  <Leanden> hmmm sprite templating or something else? :P
10:41:03  <andythenorth> code templating
10:41:17  <andythenorth> basically, until you understand the templating, you’re not gaining anything from pnml or similar
10:41:24  <andythenorth> you’d just be moving code around to different files
10:41:32  <andythenorth> in which case, one file per vehicle is best
10:41:34  <planetmaker> ah. Well. That might be a matter of personal taste, Leanden. Using an appropriate sprite template with the right parameter (e.g. a filename) might actually make all your switches for all the vehicles the same - except the filename parameter given
10:41:49  * andythenorth wonders if there is a good example set to look at
10:42:48  <planetmaker> Anyhow, not everything refers to sprites, and then NML templating won't help much
10:43:11  * andythenorth lost in HEQS
10:43:19  <andythenorth> wow, that was a bad approach
10:43:19  <planetmaker> And then the grouping by function (e.g. all refit switches) or grouping by vehicle (everything related to one) is more a matter of personal preference
10:43:32  <Leanden> i use sprite templates already
10:44:00  <Leanden> saves me rewriting all the offsets, widths, etc. etc.
10:44:27  <Leanden> well ive seen how SBB breaks down their pnml
10:44:36  <Leanden> but it just seems spread out for the sake of spreading out
10:45:53  <Leanden> my understanding is that with reference to each vehicle, as long as the switches come before the item before the graphics, and you dont reference an ID that hasn't yet been reached in the code, then it doesnt matter about the order
10:46:23  <Leanden> so you could go: Train 1 Switch, Train 1 Item, Train 1 Graphics, Train 2 Switch, Train 2 Item, Train 2 Graphics, etc. etc.
10:47:18  <andythenorth> if I were in your place, I’d just do it like HEQS for now
10:47:31  <andythenorth> one file per vehicle, don’t bother templating the switches etc
10:47:39  <andythenorth> write all the nml out longhand
10:47:54  <andythenorth> reasons:
10:48:12  <andythenorth> (1) if you’ve never used a code templating system before, the C macro system is not a very pleasant place to start
10:48:16  <Leanden> oh i get what you mean by tempalting now
10:48:28  <andythenorth> (2) learning all this slows you down and makes it harder to make initial progress
10:48:28  <Leanden> ye i dont like templating code as a rule
10:48:43  <Leanden> id much prefer to write all my code out in full
10:48:47  <andythenorth> (3) you don’t know what templates you need until you have coded a range of common cases
10:49:48  <Leanden> :)
10:50:40  <andythenorth> I would not work without templates personally, but I have learnt from writing nml and nfo out longhand
10:51:01  <andythenorth> this is the properties block for *every* train in Iron Horse http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/templates/train_properties.pynml
10:51:12  <andythenorth> there’s one and only one
10:52:13  <Leanden> yeah i dont like that
10:52:27  <Leanden> to me it gives you less visibility on exactly what is going on
10:52:46  <andythenorth> you have to hold two languages in your head at once
10:53:18  <andythenorth> ok, well just split all your vehicles to individual files
10:53:26  <andythenorth> and use includes to turn them on and off
10:53:34  <Leanden> yup thanks :)
10:53:37  <andythenorth> it can be very useful for debugging, or when you want to compile fast
10:53:57  <Leanden> i assume that the order you include them is the order they will appear in the purchase list?
10:54:13  <andythenorth> nah, default order is by ID
10:54:20  <andythenorth> ah, you’re allowing nml to manage IDs?
10:54:30  <Leanden> yep
10:54:40  <Leanden> thats what the tutorial recommended
10:54:40  <andythenorth> ok, that means if you change the order of includes, you break savegames
10:55:01  <Leanden> ooo thats interesting to know
10:55:06  <andythenorth> so you (1) can’t change the order unless you bump savegame (2) can’t turn includes on and off for debugging
10:55:26  <Leanden> so i should be adding my own IDs then?
10:55:26  <andythenorth> you can manage IDs explicitly, which C macro templating is quite good at
10:55:30  <andythenorth> up to you
10:55:38  <andythenorth> you could centralise them into one file
10:55:39  <Leanden> is it just number IDs?
10:55:42  <andythenorth> yes
10:55:47  <Leanden> hmmm
10:56:11  <Leanden> well breaking down into pnml now is going to break savegame compatibility anyway once i add the IDs
10:56:18  <andythenorth> item(FEAT_TRAINS, kessler, 1990) {
10:56:23  <andythenorth> 1990 is the ID
10:56:37  <Leanden> well i have an idea for that
10:56:42  <Leanden> whats the highest number an ID can take?
10:57:10  <andythenorth> depends
10:57:31  <andythenorth> around 16000 is the limit if you want to use it as trailing part of articulated vehicle
10:57:41  <andythenorth> you have ‘enough’ though
10:57:51  <Leanden> im not worried about how many
10:57:55  <Leanden> i mean the explicity number itself
10:58:06  <Leanden> could i have 999999 for example
10:58:12  <Leanden> even if the total number of IDs is less than 16000?
10:58:53  <andythenorth> check the spec :)
10:58:57  * andythenorth can’t remember
10:58:59  <Leanden> lol
10:59:00  <andythenorth> newgrf wiki knows
10:59:22  <andythenorth> but max ID number for articulated trailing parts is around 16000
10:59:45  <andythenorth> you *can* centralise IDs to one file, http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/heqs/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/ids.pnfo
11:00:00  <andythenorth> but I found that was only helpful for nfo; for nml, better to put the ID directly into the vehicle file
11:02:54  <Leanden> i have an idea for a system on how to define the numerical ID
11:03:03  <Leanden> but i want to see if NML will actually accept it first :P
11:04:33  <andythenorth> I tried systems
11:04:37  <andythenorth> I wouldn’t bother
11:04:43  <Leanden> xx-yy-zz
11:04:49  <andythenorth> nope
11:04:53  <Leanden> xx being a company identifier
11:04:53  <andythenorth> has to be a number, int
11:04:58  <Leanden> yy being the year of production
11:05:04  <andythenorth> it’s converted to a hexadecimal value
11:05:05  <Leanden> and zz being an incremental number for that year
11:05:12  <Leanden> so for example 016901
11:05:27  <andythenorth> it’s overkill
11:05:31  <andythenorth> just start at one and work up
11:06:08  <Leanden> unfortunately its not, because of the scope of the set, i can't predict when im going to add trains earlier in the list otherwise the production list will look ridiculous
11:06:13  <andythenorth> you end up chasing your tail with fancy ID systems
11:06:26  <andythenorth> you can control buy menu separately
11:06:33  <Leanden> you can!?!
11:06:34  <andythenorth> literally one big nml block
11:06:52  <Leanden> oh well balls to it then, i dont need to even change the order of #include in that case :p
11:07:04  <andythenorth> sort(FEAT_TRAINS, [1990, 2060, 2040, 2070, 2050, 2080, 2000, 2010, 1840, 1970, 1800, 1960, 1620, 2030, 1870, 2020, 1980, 1790, 1610, 1590, 1600, 1550, 1540, 1580, 1560, 1730, 1760, 1770, 1750, 1740, 1630, 1660, 1670, 1680, 1720, 1690, 1700, 1570, 1640, 1650, 1780, 2130, 1940, 2120, 1950, 2090, 1830, 1820, 2100, 1850, 1860, 1890, 1910, 1920, 2150, 1900, 2140, 2110, 1930, 1880, 90, 20, 340, 150, 310, 40, 370, 510, 180,
11:07:04  <andythenorth> 80, 410, 440, 250, 350, 60, 1460, 1440, 260, 320, 50, 540, 200, 400, 10, 30, 330, 1470, 1480, 1490, 780, 790, 800, 960, 970, 980, 860, 1330, 590, 600, 610, 1100, 1110, 660, 670, 680, 1250, 1260, 1040, 1430, 1210, 1220, 1390, 1400, 1180, 1510, 1300, 810, 1350, 1370, 990, 1380, 1450, 870, 1320, 620, 1310, 1120, 1130, 690, 1360, 1050, 1520, 1410, 1420, 520, 1500, 110, 480, 380, 70, 230, 0, 390, 500, 300, 270, 170, 120, 4
11:07:05  <Leanden> but i suppose i should still use IDs in case i need to remove any
11:07:05  <andythenorth> 280, 220, 450, 100, 160, 130, 470, 530, 460, 360, 210, 290, 490, 240, 140, 430, 880, 740, 750, 760, 920, 930, 940, 1000, 820, 830, 840, 550, 560, 570, 1070, 1080, 1090, 630, 640, 1270, 1230, 1240, 1010, 1020, 1190, 1200, 730, 720, 1060, 1140, 1150, 1160, 890, 900, 910, 710, 700, 1530, 1280, 770, 950, 850, 580, 650, 1030, 1170, 1290]);
11:07:12  <andythenorth> buy menu for Iron Horse :P
11:07:16  <Leanden> haha
11:07:16  <andythenorth> should have pastebinned that :P
11:07:35  <andythenorth> do your IDs starting at 1
11:07:46  <andythenorth> and do your includes in alphabetical order, imho
11:07:52  <andythenorth> and do the buy menu order manually
11:11:17  <Leanden> :)
11:11:27  <Leanden> thanks for your help andy
11:11:40  <Leanden> I should probably credit you as a coder after all your help :P
11:11:51  <andythenorth> nah
11:12:37  <andythenorth> Leanden: test your refit code early with things like autoreplace and station refit
11:12:51  <andythenorth> I had a lot of trouble trying to abuse refit, and I don’t bother anymore
11:12:58  <Leanden> ive disabled station refit on the locomotives
11:13:14  <Leanden> as it doesnt make sense to me that a loco should be able to change at a station
11:22:49  <Leanden> ugh
11:22:56  <Leanden> im having a different issue but i cant look into it right now
11:23:08  <Leanden> my makefile was set up to produce from an nml file
11:23:11  <Leanden> not with pnml
11:23:22  <Leanden> how do i modify it now to use pnml instead? :P
11:24:28  <andythenorth> makefile has evolved over time
11:24:40  <andythenorth> HEQS one is very old, but uses “MAIN_SRC_FILE       ?= $(BASE_FILENAME).pnml”
11:24:50  <andythenorth> with a comment
11:24:52  <andythenorth> # uncomment MAIN_SRC_FILE if you do not want any preprocessing to happen to your source file
11:26:14  <Leanden> got a cc error
11:26:16  <Leanden> Error 127
11:27:26  <Leanden> hmm
11:27:35  <Leanden> it isnt looking for the pnml
11:27:44  <andythenorth> planetmaker is your best bet for makefile help, but he might be busy :)
11:28:07  <Leanden> gotta go
11:33:50  <andythenorth> more win from Garry G http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1168069#p1168069
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12:31:23  <Wolf01> andythenorth, do you have some info about making a contained joystick for the pf controllers? I need to put 3 of them really close, and the one I found doesn't work well
12:32:26  <andythenorth> nah
12:32:32  <andythenorth> there are designs around though?
12:32:35  <andythenorth> flickr?
12:32:51  <Wolf01> yeah, but they are big or wobbly
12:39:24  <Wolf01> I know I'll end up with something like this: https://youtu.be/r6_CUtmS_Pc?t=22s
12:40:32  <peter1138> pom te pom
12:55:32  <planetmaker> <Leanden> id much prefer to write all my code out in full <-- then just do that
12:55:45  <planetmaker> oh, he's gone
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13:10:51  <andythenorth> o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7805/manganese_mine_animated.mov
13:11:29  <V453000> OMG IT MOOOOVS
13:12:20  <andythenorth> animation cat
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13:50:11  <supermop> yo
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14:02:38  <argoneus> good morning train friends
14:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause> does it ever MOOO?
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14:50:03  <Alberth> o/
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15:17:03  <supermop> rail types are newgrf bullshit huh
15:18:12  <V453000> ?
15:18:24  <V453000> like you cant have it in base set
15:18:28  <V453000> you mean?
15:20:13  <Alberth> nobody forces you to use them :)
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15:32:03  <supermop> no thats a quote from forum
15:32:54  <supermop> "No one is forcing you to use the new track types. So many great and doable ideas have been smothered by the "there's a NewGRF for it bulls***"! Seriously! how long do you want this game to be unchanged for?"
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15:36:28  <Alberth> ah :)  well, that's easy, "forever"  :)
15:36:44  <V453000> XD
15:36:46  <V453000> g
15:36:47  <V453000> g
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15:47:35  <Alberth> the author seems a bit confused about how openttd gets extended
15:57:00  <FLHerne> Well, I do sympathise a bit. There are a lot of useful non-newgrfable patches that have been floating around for years.
15:57:26  <FLHerne> But for the kind of features he's on about...nah, clueless
16:01:19  <Alberth> good post :)
16:05:59  <_dp_> imo worst thing about newgrfs is that they're way too often used as an excuse for not adding anything to the base game
16:06:50  <FLHerne> Examples of what I'm muttering about: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=836749, http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42598, http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72855
16:07:22  <_dp_> even for stuff that being done with newgrfs is ugly as hell and completely impractical
16:07:44  <FLHerne> Small, clean patches that add uncontroversial features, that can be easily applied to current trunk
16:08:12  <FLHerne> Not being an OTTD dev, it's hard to see why these need to be left alone for years
16:08:50  <FLHerne> I know Eddi's can crash vehicles immediately on loading a new savegame, but those vehicles were *already* doomed by the current LC behaviour
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16:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that, it's vehicles that were previously perfectly safe also just run into a train in front of them
16:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause> which is "only" a problem for old savegames, but one that should not just be ignored
16:20:37  *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:24:00  <_dp_> make "invincible" flag for vehicles?
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16:28:09  <Eddi|zuHause> well, one option would be to make two different closed states for crossings
16:28:20  <_dp_> or, mb, flag for using old signal behaviour
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16:29:25  <Eddi|zuHause> a "closed" flag for the entire crossing, and an "unsafe" flag for the crossing where actually a train is on
16:30:04  <Eddi|zuHause> a "closed" tile will allow a vehicle to enter if coming from another "closed" tile
16:30:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and an "unsafe" flag will not allow a vehicle to enter regardless
16:30:51  <Eddi|zuHause> where "unsafe" is the old behaviour, and "closed" the new one introduced by that patch
16:30:55  <_dp_> oh, I know the simplest solution, add game setting for using adjacent crossings
16:31:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm very against that
16:32:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with the "unsafe" approach is that it will break again when a long tram suddenly stops in the middle of the track
16:32:55  <Eddi|zuHause> or with the follow-up patch of "diagonal crossings"
16:36:14  <_dp_> anyway, you need to combine both mechanics
16:37:06  <_dp_> so, what about per-vehicle flag then? set it for some rv in old saves, and reset at some point (rv leaving signal block)
16:37:22  <Eddi|zuHause> that could work
16:38:31  <_dp_> hm, what if more crossings are added while vehicle already entered block?
16:40:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a user error and of no concern
16:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> like modifying signals with trains nearby, if a train crashes, it's the player's fault
16:41:03  <Eddi|zuHause> not the game's responsibility to fix
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16:44:41  <_dp_> yeah
16:45:12  <_dp_> I misinterpreted this patch at first, it's not like it competely prevents crashing, just adds a way to do save crossings
16:45:28  <_dp_> *safe
16:47:39  <_dp_> or, rather, slightly more safe
16:47:54  <_dp_> if rv breaks down on rail it's doomed anyway
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16:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't help with that :p
16:50:26  <_dp_> well, technically, you can stop train but...
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16:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> that's getting a bit complicated
16:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> and stops it from being a "small, clean patch"
16:51:15  <_dp_> also unrealistic :p
16:51:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not actually unrealistic
16:51:48  <Eddi|zuHause> some level crossings have a signal whether the crossing safely closed
16:52:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and if that is not on, the train must stop before the crossing, and manually check it's safe
16:53:16  <_dp_> but trains braking is unrealistic in openttd :p
16:53:27  <peter1138> fix it!
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16:57:46  <_dp_> better not, that would break everything
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17:11:09  <FLHerne_> Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, was afk
17:11:18  <FLHerne_> <Eddi|zuHause> it's not that, it's vehicles that were previously perfectly safe also just run into a train in front of them
17:11:39  <FLHerne_> That was what I meant by "those vehicles were *already* doomed by the current LC behaviour"
17:12:06  <Eddi|zuHause> how are they "doomed"?
17:12:10  <FLHerne_> With the current setup, any vehicle crossing a double-track line is going to be destroyed eventually
17:12:27  <Eddi|zuHause> any 8/8 vehicle parked between two rails is safe
17:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause> only longer vehicles, or a second vehicle is "doomed"
17:12:55  <FLHerne_> RVs have a tendency to clump, though
17:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause> sure.
17:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> but that's not relevant.
17:13:48  <FLHerne_> Okay, the majority of vehicles crossing a double-track line are doomed, unless the operator was really careful to timetable things
17:15:10  <FLHerne_> I still think a few lost vehicles, many of which were going to be squashed anyway at some point, isn't worth the years of lost vehicles that we get :P
17:15:29  <Eddi|zuHause> again. that's irrelevant to the problem. SOME vehicles that were SAFE in the original safegame are DOOMED, when loaded with this patch
17:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause> which is a regression
17:15:47  <Eddi|zuHause> and thus not allowed to happen with a "clean" patch
17:15:54  <Eddi|zuHause> hence the patch is not "clean"
17:18:03  <Eddi|zuHause> gtg
17:18:16  <FLHerne_> Ok, bye :-)
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17:47:52  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: just automatically crash all player vehicles on load regardless of if they are near a crossing
17:48:12  <V453000> I like it
17:48:46  <Alberth> call it new disaster
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17:57:46  <supermop> improved breakdowns: train explodes for no reason
17:59:51  <V453000> also blows up tracks under it?
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18:07:23  <supermop> some times the train blows up, sometimes the tracks
18:07:25  <frosch123> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8247 <- is that answer subtle enough? :p
18:08:07  <supermop> sometime train derails and drives into an industry and blows up your high-production steel mill
18:09:11  <Samu> i swithed to another ISP, servers aren't being recognized by the master server
18:09:24  <Samu> t.t port forwarding is hard
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18:27:32  <Alberth> o/
18:27:36  <andythenorth> o/
18:31:00  <frosch123> hoi
18:36:17  <Wolf01> o/
18:38:15  <Wolf01> nice one frosch ;)
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18:52:03  <planetmaker> o/
18:52:15  <planetmaker> loool, frosch123 @ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/8247
18:53:55  <frosch123> just to add: i looked at the locale setting in the user's profile. i am not completely retarded :)
18:56:54  <Wolf01> so you'll look like a wizard to him
18:58:11  <Wolf01> maybe he really wanted to translate the placeholder language
19:00:10  <planetmaker> thought so :)
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19:10:56  <Wolf01> could I apply for translating in qps-ploc?
19:11:59  <frosch123> https://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/goglobal/bb964664.aspx <- is it listed on that page?
19:12:46  <frosch123> and in iso 639-1 ?
19:13:13  <Wolf01> it's a language used by Microsoft to test the UI
19:13:16  <Wolf01> https://msdn.microsoft.com/it-it/library/windows/desktop/dd319106(v=vs.85).aspx
19:16:19  <Wolf01> http://archives.miloush.net/michkap/archive/2011/04/11/10152035.html
19:23:32  <V453000> nice frosch123 :D
19:26:39  <andythenorth> iz new gamescript yet? o_O
19:26:43  * andythenorth wants to play a game
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20:01:39  <andythenorth> oops, forgot to re-apply my tropic landscape patch
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22:37:47  <Eddi|zuHause> man, frosch read that request all wrong. he clearly asked to be a translator for the "insert" language.
22:38:58  <Supercheese> hahaha
22:44:30  <Wolf01> :)
22:45:16  <Wolf01> also, 'night
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