Log for #openttd on 19th May 2016:
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00:04:20  <glx> in debug mode yes
00:05:14  <glx> and there is an alt combo for money
00:07:13  <Samu_> oh well :(
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07:31:47  <andythenorth> supermop pax/mail cars in
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08:30:19  <V453000> why are 2 of the the 0D coast tiles (10) not used?
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10:03:43  <Wolf01> moin
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10:18:46  <Wolf01> ahaha "what do you want to do with ad.exe? [open] [download] [cancel]"... and they tell me to not use adblockers?
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11:06:35  <Samu> hui
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11:51:56  <Samu> this is confusing me: if (!valid) continue;
11:52:11  <Samu> valid = true at the moment
11:52:25  <Samu> !valid would make it false, right?
11:52:29  <Samu> why does it continue?
11:54:00  <planetmaker> true and false are strings. Use numeric 0 and 1?
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11:55:06  <Samu> bool valid = Company::IsValidAiID(i);
11:55:15  <Samu> it is a valid ai id
11:59:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: adblock is way more important than a virus scanner
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13:55:00  <supermop> YO
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14:33:49  <Samu> my parent's HDD seems to be dying
14:35:31  <Alberth> all HDDs are dying, some are a bit more dead than others
14:35:43  <Samu> Seagate
14:35:53  <Samu> i was never lucky with Seagates
14:37:01  <Alberth> age is probably a more relevant factor :)
14:37:13  <Samu> everytime one of ours HDD dies it's a Seagate, or Samsung branded Seagate
14:37:50  <Samu> I don't think age matters much
14:38:03  <Samu> that same system has got 2 Maxtors from the IDE age
14:38:06  <Samu> they're alive
14:38:24  <Alberth> of course, they die immediately when you switch on for the first time
14:42:18  <Samu> windows is barely responsive
14:42:24  <Samu> takes time to answer requests
14:42:32  <Samu> it could be a virus, or HDD
14:42:57  <ST2> with some tables, I know Samu likes them ^^
14:42:58  <ST2>
14:43:24  <Samu> windows restore started up fixing disk issues on the next reboot
14:43:47  <Samu> now I'm unsure what to do, it tells me it may take hours
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14:46:02  <Samu> it's a 500 GB Seagate barracuda, can't remember model
14:47:24  <Alberth> buy a new disk, imho
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14:57:11  <Samu> seagate barracuda 7200.12 500 gb sata 3 16 mb cache
14:58:54  <Alberth> any particular reason we should know that?
15:02:51  <Samu> ah no, 7200.11
15:03:23  <Samu> I remember i had to deal with its firmware
15:03:31  <Samu> to avoid it bricking
15:03:50  <Samu> now it dies... apparently
15:03:54  <Samu> screw seagate
15:05:47  <Alkel_U3> the moral of the story: Harddisks die.
15:09:26  <Alkel_U3> well, I hear good things about some Toshiba HDDs that are actualy rebranded Hitachi. I'd go for that, probably
15:10:11  <Alberth> nah, buy a new seagate, will give you something to complain about in a few years
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15:36:54  <Alberth> o/
15:38:13  <andythenorth> o/
15:38:33  * andythenorth in bed, with a bucket nearby
15:38:41  <Alberth> :(
15:39:18  <andythenorth> [shrug]
15:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i hope it's a bucket for drinking.
15:40:07  <andythenorth> not so much
15:40:27  * andythenorth reads forums
15:44:45  <andythenorth> didn’t take long :)
15:45:31  <supermop> yo andythenorth
15:45:38  <andythenorth> lo supermop
15:46:04  <supermop> use llama open car for antelope
15:46:14  <supermop> gen 1
15:46:28  <supermop> its alreadt 5/8, has a tan canvas tarp
15:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause> when you speak of "llama", "antelope", "pony" i always think you're speaking some military codenames
15:48:12  <supermop> who says we aren't?
15:55:04  <supermop> playing an 1870 llama game right now
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16:04:19  <supermop> hmm better to run a mineral train with two burros or one americano
16:04:32  <supermop> that reminds me, i should go get an espresso
16:17:10  <andythenorth> llama is junk :)
16:17:17  <supermop> cute so far
16:17:27  <andythenorth> the roster makes no sense
16:17:38  <andythenorth> I’ll rework it once antelope is done, maybe
16:18:01  <supermop> quarry is already making so much that i need double headed burros leaving every few days though with 5 tile rakes
16:19:04  <supermop> so far in firs 2 ive found some industries easily will run these early game trains ragged
16:20:00  <supermop> only in november of the first year and already most of trunk line is doubled, need all of it to be
16:21:20  <supermop> i have a sheep farm doing 189 sheep and 225 bales of wool at 'normal' production level
16:27:36  <Alberth> yep, firs 2 has higher production :)
16:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the problem with early starts, the production doesn't scale down along with vehicle capacity
16:32:57  <Alberth> firs 2 just has more production
16:33:26  <Alberth> even with default set in 1950
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16:34:10  <Alberth> quak
16:34:33  <Eddi|zuHause> rÃŒlps
16:34:43  <frosch123> moin mammals
16:36:09  <supermop> ok june 1871 and whole trunk line doubled, part tripled. enough cash now to triple most of it
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16:51:06  <supermop> andythenorth: what do you think about gen 1 llama open wagon? its pretty much exactly what i was going to draw for antelope
16:51:43  <andythenorth> yeah that looks fine
16:52:04  <supermop> could paint/pallet swap/ tweak a few pixels
16:52:05  <andythenorth> supermop: you mean the SG one, or the NG one?
16:52:13  <andythenorth> one is CC, one is brown
16:52:17  <supermop> NG
16:52:21  <andythenorth> hmm
16:52:22  <supermop> i think
16:52:36  <andythenorth> NG one is brown, it’s copy paste from NARS 2 I think
16:52:40  <supermop> open_car_llama_gen_1_template.png
16:52:49  <supermop> thats the NG?
16:52:55  <andythenorth> nah SG
16:52:57  <andythenorth> that one’s good
16:53:00  <supermop> thats the one i took
16:53:07  <supermop> has khaki tarp
16:53:17  <andythenorth> made any changes?  Otherwise I paste it in now
16:54:00  <supermop> haven't changed anything, considered messing with the cc/adding a stripe or patch of 2cc
16:54:07  <supermop> but i think it looks fine as is
16:54:33  <andythenorth> I’ll commit it
16:54:37  <supermop> cool
16:54:47  <supermop> im off to get lunch with fiance
16:55:04  <supermop> what else is left to do of the 5/8s / gen 1s?
16:55:17  <andythenorth> flat car
16:55:23  <andythenorth> which can be copied from pony
16:55:24  <supermop> maybe i'll have time in afternoon to do one or two other cars
16:55:45  <supermop> any gens 2 or 3 need reworking?
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16:56:51  <supermop> anyway hightlight me while im out and ill let you know when i get back if i can get to it
16:57:06  <andythenorth> ok :)
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17:01:34  <frosch123> V453000: when the additional coasttiles were added, there was a discussion, whether canyon flooding should be a thing
17:02:02  <frosch123> in the end canyon flooding was ruled down, but the sprites for it remained
17:02:58  <frosch123> V453000: <- that topic, and the topic linked from the first post
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18:09:18  <supermop> ok
18:09:21  <V453000> :(
18:09:25  <V453000> I could really use that thing frosch123
18:09:39  <supermop> canyon flooding?>
18:10:09  <V453000> yeah
18:10:14  <V453000> also, tbh that looks SO much more consistent
18:11:30  <V453000> just having grass in the canyon for $reason isn't very sensible
18:11:32  <V453000> it's level 0
18:11:48  <supermop> should at least be wet grass
18:12:09  <frosch123> V453000: well, canyon flooding results in inconsistent gameplay bevaviour
18:12:22  <frosch123> and i prefer consistent behaviour over consistent looks :)
18:13:27  <V453000> hm
18:13:29  <supermop> this firs map could use more farms
18:13:33  <V453000> what is gameplay wise different?
18:13:46  <frosch123> build a road through a canyon
18:13:50  <supermop> i feel like a 19th C game should be a bit more agricultural
18:14:00  <frosch123> when does it flood, wehn is the road traversible?
18:14:20  <supermop> frosch123: draw ford sprites?
18:14:24  <frosch123> V453000: thing is, currently you can never flood something by removing something with a foundation
18:14:34  <frosch123> with canyon flooding foundations have influence on what is flooded
18:14:45  <V453000> ahaa
18:14:51  <frosch123> so, removing a piece of track with foundation may suddenly flood something
18:14:59  <V453000> and does it need to actually flood stuff?
18:15:07  <V453000> can't it just draw water there without actually flooding stuff?
18:15:18  <frosch123> where does it end?
18:15:31  <supermop> haha
18:15:38  <frosch123> a coast either ends at water or at land
18:15:47  <supermop> ocean on mountains? ocean on houses?
18:16:10  <V453000> what do you mean?
18:17:32  <V453000> hm I think I see the problem
18:18:14  <V453000> me is sad about that :( had a nice idea
18:19:44  <V453000> basically this would flood my HQ if I removed the road eh
18:20:38  <Alberth> newobject water tiles? :)
18:21:19  <V453000> not good enough
18:21:25  <V453000> I can fuck it around, but hm
18:21:32  <V453000> major pain
18:21:55  <V453000> in other words I wanted to have different system for coasts and different system for hills
18:22:12  <V453000> these diagonal valley coasts mean I can't do that
18:22:25  <V453000> either one or the other system, but for all of them
18:22:43  <frosch123> V453000:
18:23:04  <frosch123> canyon flooding would turn the purchased land into water/coast
18:23:07  <V453000> yes
18:23:14  <frosch123> i have no idea where you would stop drawing coast
18:23:29  <frosch123> and the roads at the top are the gameplay issue of canyon flooding
18:23:44  <V453000> honestly, I don't find it to be a gameplay issue
18:23:54  <V453000> I see your point, it is totally valid
18:24:09  <V453000> just that I think it doesn't need to be 100% idiot proof :)
18:24:27  <V453000> I'd say it shouldn't flood purchased land maybe
18:24:59  <frosch123> well, i think the flooding behaviour is fine
18:25:09  <Alberth> obviously it should wait until you placed an expensive airport on it
18:25:15  <frosch123> but we need some graphics for the weird corners without coast
18:25:36  <frosch123> but back then noone had a concept how to draw graphics for those corners
18:25:46  <frosch123> which are technically at height zero, but also aren't
18:25:49  <V453000> which corners do you mean?
18:26:03  <frosch123> those where the coastline is interrupted
18:26:13  <frosch123> and where canyon flooding would continue flooding
18:26:27  <V453000> isn't that just a normal coast tile?
18:27:04  <frosch123> i mean graphics for slopes which have shore only in one corner, not along the whole slope
18:27:41  <V453000> isn't that one of the things the replacenew allowS?
18:27:58  <supermop> i feel like this a reason for ocean to have depth
18:28:41  <supermop> and then say, any tile that is partially below 0 has ocean, and at flat tile at 0 is just a beach
18:28:54  <frosch123> <- three identical water surfaces
18:29:25  <frosch123> from right to left: 1. shore is complete, 2. two tiles miss shore sprites, 3. one tile is missing shore sprite
18:30:37  <frosch123> the canyons need shore sprites at the beginning where they reach the water
18:30:46  <supermop> frosch123: why not always draw the beachy part on the slope, and if a piece of land is flat at 0 but not floodable, draw it as all sand?
18:30:46  <frosch123> they do not need shore sprites along them
18:31:06  <frosch123> supermop: that's what i mean, but there are no sprites for it
18:31:28  <supermop> someone could draw, myself included
18:32:16  <V453000> are you talking about these?
18:32:17  <frosch123> it depends on the graphics, in 2007 that sand part was even higher than those in opengfx
18:32:30  <frosch123> you would need to draw some hill near the water
18:33:31  <V453000> I would be very interested in drawing those if it could mean we could have this feature
18:33:49  <V453000> separating shore graphics from hills completely that way
18:34:10  <V453000> as long as it works like this, you can't really be creative which hurts mainly with 32bpp/EZ
18:34:25  <V453000> if you can separate them, you can fuck with the border and things get interesting
18:34:39  <frosch123> <- i mean those
18:34:48  <frosch123> the yellow arc should be sand
18:35:21  <V453000> oh, I thought that is where the valleys/canyons of water should go
18:35:28  <V453000> why end the water there with the yellow arc?
18:35:43  <frosch123> .... because it breaks gameplay.... ?
18:35:51  <frosch123> i already said that 3 times
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18:36:10  <V453000> nah
18:36:43  <V453000> if you can see the water next to the object you are removing, it is quite clear that it will flood through
18:36:52  <V453000> after all, those nice canyons are just better rivers :P
18:37:06  <V453000> the coast could get really nice with this
18:37:19  <frosch123> not really
18:37:25  <frosch123> did you look at the old screenshots?
18:37:29  <frosch123> canyon flooding mostly looks weird
18:37:36  <frosch123> also, where is andy
18:37:48  <frosch123> we need his opinion on traveling with ships on those "rivers" :p
18:38:39  <V453000> XD
18:39:09  <V453000> honestly when I look through the old screenshots, the valleys look very nice to me
18:39:27  <V453000> it makes sense, level 0 -> water spreads
18:40:10  <frosch123> <- oh, i even forgot about that
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18:43:49  <V453000> ok that is considerably shitty :)
18:43:51  <V453000> :( sad me
18:43:57  <V453000> ok
18:44:29  <V453000> I'll just do some silly shit :P
18:46:17  <frosch123> maybe put some yetis in the corners, which block the water flooding
18:46:46  <supermop> in 2007 arctic had a rocky beach?
18:47:05  <frosch123> supermop: it's the "new water" newgrf
18:47:36  <frosch123> it was the only grf back then that had this type of coast
18:49:41  <supermop> i don't think i have ever used a water or shore grf
18:49:56  <frosch123> supermop:
18:50:03  <frosch123> it's ancient
18:50:19  <V453000> for arctic it is very nice, I used it a lot
18:51:13  <supermop> in the time between when i used to visit forums around 2004 and when a came back to lurk around 2008
18:52:28  <V453000> you didn't make me very happy frosch123 =[
18:52:58  <V453000> sooo... vehicles consisting of multiple sprites? :P
18:53:05  <supermop> around 2004 i found the forums while trying to figure out how to get tto to work on my circa 2003 computer
19:02:23  <Wolf01> I leave you for 30 minutes and you start a discussion which now I must read :P
19:05:18  <supermop> V453000: what exactly are you looking to accomplish?
19:05:26  <V453000> with the shores?
19:05:45  <supermop> or in general
19:06:05  <V453000> well with the shores I want nice graphical shores which don't have to start AND end at the corners
19:06:21  <V453000> which is not doable with the valley tiles being taken from normal terrain
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19:06:35  <V453000> cause if you make the shore different, it breaks in those corners
19:07:06  <V453000> with the multiple sprites per vehicle, I would like to massively reduce filesize of 32bpp/EZ grfs by composing it from layers (wagon, cargo, ...)
19:11:24  <supermop> perfect for brio trains
19:14:01  <V453000> perfect for anything, really
19:20:32  <Wolf01> +1
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20:25:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "this warranty is valid for 5 years after purchase" ... "purchase date: december 1975" ... very helpful :p
20:28:52  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Well, eight times the warrantied life ain't bad
20:29:13  <FLHerne> Assuming it still worked until fairly recently, or you'd have thrown it out?
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20:30:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i've sorted through a pile of instruction manuals. some of the documents are for devices that were already thrown out
20:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause> this particular sheet was about a sowing machine, which still exists, but i don't think i have ever used in my life :p
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20:40:17  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: even a DDR sewing machine made in the 70s probably still works well
20:40:39  <DDR> damn straight
20:40:40  <supermop> i find only sewing machines made before 1900 or after 2000 are likely to be broken
20:41:27  <supermop> and some of those 1900s singers still work pretty well too - if you don't mind the leg workout
20:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> DDR: serves you right for naming yourself after a non-existing country :p
20:44:17  <DDR> he he he
20:45:04  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: maybe he thought it was like license plates - if the country doesn't renew the name, it goes back into the pool for the next entity to take
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21:03:03  <supermop> so in 1870 i get a bulk terminal, but no aluminum plants yet to take the bauxite
21:03:22  <supermop> (i can still make use of the chemicals)
21:03:55  <Eddi|zuHause> bauxite in 1870 sounds wrong
21:04:53  <supermop> but this to me suggests a humorous situation where people have not yet discouvered that you can extract aluminum from bauxite, but that some merchant at this port has decided to import hundreds of tons per month of it anyway
21:05:36  <supermop> maybe he is trying to sell it as a decorative landscaping material
21:13:17  <supermop> why are outdoor light sconces so expensive
21:13:48  <supermop> the really cool designer ones and european ones are like 2-300$, which i can understand
21:14:02  <supermop> but then the cheap generic ones are like 1-200
21:14:17  <supermop> apart from a couple really ugly ones around 
21:14:34  <supermop> even some of the ugly generic ones are 0
21:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what you're talking about
21:15:05  <supermop> lights to go on a wall outdoors
21:15:19  <supermop> in a back yard, or side of a house etc
21:16:08  <supermop> the budget for this project is ,000 and i can tell right now that the deck my boss wants to use is going to be ,000 alone
21:19:35  <supermop> i bet i could design a nice looking shroud to cover an ugly light for less than  a piece
21:21:41  <supermop> just drill 4 holes in a sheet of steel, fold it twice, and powdercoat it
21:31:22  <supermop> is it odd that this train makes the segment from last waypoint into platform 2 days slower than from platform back to that waypoint on the return?
21:31:41  <supermop> i guess it brakes slower than it accellerates
21:32:17  <supermop> not sure how to timetable this
21:33:11  <Eddi|zuHause> braking into station is kinda hardcoded speed reduction, whereas accelerating depends properly on power/weight
21:33:51  <supermop> i thought the game based braking performance on HP
21:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause> somewhat, but station entrance has some special code to slowly brake, instead of going fast to the last tile and then emergency brake
21:34:46  <Eddi|zuHause> like it does for signals
21:35:30  <supermop> now i wonder if i can save a day or so on the timetable by stopping at near end instead of middle
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21:37:53  <FLHerne> supermop: Is it just that, or that sometimes it has to wait for a platform?
21:38:12  <supermop> nope, brand new segment of line and service
21:38:39  <supermop> this is the only train on it so far - doing test runs to get the timetabling down
21:39:50  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: stopping at end of platform may help if you want to clear the station entrance for other trains quickly
21:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: basically the code says "if you're less than X tiles away from stopping point, max speed should be Y"
21:41:33  <Eddi|zuHause> if you watch the train, you see the speed go down after each tile border, then flatten out somewhere during the tile
21:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause> (if it does not flatten, you do not have enough braking power)
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21:47:51  <Eddi|zuHause> why, oh why, youtube, do you suggest to me some random shooter game video with greek language commentary?
21:52:08  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Might be IP-based?
21:52:17  <FLHerne> Unless you have a static one
21:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really static, but i have no forced disconnection anymore
21:53:16  <glx> and even with dynamic IP it's bound to a country
21:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause> so i should have had the same for quite a while
21:58:17  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Well, that's the sort of case where Google might get it wrong
21:58:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it wasn't even a video with millions of views
21:59:39  <FLHerne> If your (or the Greek guy's) IP is usually unchanged for a while, they'd get the heuristic from that
22:00:24  <FLHerne> Then when it does get shuffled for some reason (power cut? Router reboot? Whatever) they'd get muddled
22:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause> says my connection is stable since 25.2.2016
22:04:32  <FLHerne> Huh. I'm out of daft ideas then :P
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22:10:12  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: maybe they just felt bad for the guy and wanted to give him more views
22:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it still had 4000 or so
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22:37:05  <Wolf01> 'night
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