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00:04:40 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:55 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:22:12 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:04:50 <Samu> why is the forum so slow at 2:00? 01:05:20 <Samu> betweem 2:00 - 2:15 everyday it's slow :( 01:22:38 <Samu> finally was able to post 01:23:07 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&p=1169417#p1169417 - cyas, goodnight 01:23:15 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:32:24 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 02:09:14 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:49:12 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:01:44 *** ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host86-135-232-98.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:02:46 *** kais58__ is now known as kais58|AFK 04:07:57 *** ToneKnee [~quassel@host109-148-29-203.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:30:20 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:42:49 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:12:48 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:27:33 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 05:58:53 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d823b64.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 06:07:09 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 06:08:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:00:37 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:04:00 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:39 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d08f312.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 07:10:18 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 07:13:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:14:22 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d823b64.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:50:30 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 07:54:49 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/jhvVdCB.png fairly happy with my network for now :) 07:55:53 <Ethereal_Whisper> I've got some shit turns I had to put up with on a couple lines only going to a single station or two but meh 07:56:33 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/uqURZaa.png unless you can think of what else to do here 07:57:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> I figure that there's plenty of track to get up to speed before joining the trunk despite that turn, so I just left it 08:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be trivial to extend that bridge by 1 to remove the extra bend 08:06:48 <Ethereal_Whisper> You reminded me that I habitually gave a tile at the end of the bridge for signaling purposes and then never put a signal on it 08:08:03 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__ 08:30:56 <peter1138> Presignals, how quaint. 08:38:18 *** Taco [~kitty@2402:9e80:1::1:9a37] has joined #openttd 08:38:59 <Ethereal_Whisper> Eh? 08:54:08 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:54:40 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-377369.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 09:12:02 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:12:46 <Wolf01> hi o/ 09:12:51 <Ethereal_Whisper> Hi 09:12:53 <peter1138> Using presignals for stuff that path signals work better on 09:13:21 <V453000> there still exist people in this world who want to play properly 09:13:32 <Ethereal_Whisper> I don't understand 09:13:35 <Ethereal_Whisper> What I did wrong 09:13:48 <V453000> nothing, in this channel using presignals is not allowed 09:13:50 <V453000> PBS is the only way 09:14:29 <Ethereal_Whisper> I use them to signal station entries and priority signaling for side lines joining main lines, that's about it these days 09:14:51 <V453000> yes hence you are a criminal and should be dealt with 09:15:39 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-377369.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:40 <Ethereal_Whisper> I forgot to signal a bypass line and jammed half my map lol 09:16:59 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/MtzCRIi.png I am a criminal 09:17:19 <Wolf01> nah, that should work, just don't put more trains that the station can handle, maybe one more. There is not enough waiting space 09:17:33 <V453000> thing is that specifically in stations, PBS signals do have better sheer throughput, but if you just use presignals and learn to solve the situation without making "just a big crossing from everywhere to everywhere", you learn how to make the truly proper solution 09:17:41 <V453000> PBS just lets you do the easy solution 09:18:20 <V453000> but the problem is that with bigger issues like line merging and junctions, you need those proper solutions, and if you don't learn them, no big networks for you :) 09:18:28 <Ethereal_Whisper> Yeah it's a low-capacity station. It's a pickup-only station for 2 different cargo types not far from the drop, so I Think I have 3 trains serving each side completely 09:19:06 <V453000> yeah don't worry about it 09:20:14 <Wolf01> the problem is when 2 platforms are full and the 3rd train is waiting on the bridge, no way for other trains to enter the second station 09:20:40 <Ethereal_Whisper> Indeed 09:20:41 <V453000> yes but a lot of the time the loading times are actually so long that you don't even need that much throughput there 09:21:12 <Ethereal_Whisper> I know that the waiting bay is long enough for a 3rd train, but I haven't saturated the station with trains so the waiting bay doesn't have to be long, and in practice, doesn't actually get used 09:21:24 <Wolf01> in such case I would use as many trains as the station platforms and just build a plain T junction with PBS 09:21:57 <Ethereal_Whisper> The train length, distance to drop, etc. is as such means there's always a train loading at the station, and no train is ever blocked from exiting 09:22:59 <V453000> that's pretty exactly the worst approach Wolf01 :P 09:23:10 <V453000> if you solve junctions by signals, something is horribly wrong 09:23:12 <Wolf01> I don't play for extreme efficency 09:23:23 <V453000> in fact, a good junction doesn't need any other signal than simple block 09:23:51 <V453000> idk, having one full rail doesn't sound like extreme to me 09:24:03 <V453000> (at which point PBS T will break badly) 09:24:15 <Wolf01> I want 2 trains to be able to cross a junction at the same time if they don't need to switch, and I usually have a signal every 11+ tiles 09:24:39 <V453000> yes which is why you build bridges :) 09:24:46 <V453000> and that signal density gives me cancer 09:24:56 <V453000> why wouldn't you use spacing of 2 for signals? 09:25:02 <Wolf01> I don't build bridges 09:25:16 <V453000> ok XD I am done 09:25:33 <peter1138> cos 2 is ugly 09:25:37 *** chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-377807.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 09:25:56 <Wolf01> at least, I build them if I really need them, like when I'm crossing a river, or if I'm climbing a mountain and I need to build a loop 09:26:06 <V453000> ugly is subjective perception without a reason 09:26:32 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/C8nOOHE.png am I doing it right 09:26:48 <Ethereal_Whisper> kappa 09:26:54 <V453000> gg 09:26:55 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 09:27:21 <peter1138> That boy... 09:27:22 <Wolf01> no need to ragequit because the playstyle doesn't match 09:28:23 <Wolf01> V, we know you are reading the logs, you can come back ;) 09:29:09 <Wolf01> (maybe he quit for our safety) 09:30:26 <Ethereal_Whisper> I hope he knows "kappa" means sarcasm 09:30:42 <Ethereal_Whisper> I wasn't being serious when I built that junction with a turn length of 1 in all directions 09:30:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> I don't have any actual 4-way junctions in my current game 09:31:03 <Ethereal_Whisper> And the 3-way one I have is... meh 09:31:29 <Ethereal_Whisper> I don't like it, but the traffic density on the direction I don't like (west-to-south left turns) isn't very high so I haven't fixed it yet 09:31:49 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/9Qfxrvd.png that's what I mean, the turn using the unbalanced tunnels 09:32:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i never truely understood the origin or meaning of the term "kappa" (when not referring to the greek letter) 09:33:12 <Ethereal_Whisper> Some guy used it on Twitch once 09:33:50 <Ethereal_Whisper> To be fair I never truly understood the attraction to watching someone else play a game, speaking of Twitch, but I did get "kappa = sarcasm" out of it 09:37:45 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/OiltUhA I usually play like so, and yes, I spam PBS all around because I'm lazy 09:39:57 <Ethereal_Whisper> Left handed track makes my head hurt 09:40:11 <Ethereal_Whisper> I have to build it occasionally sometimes, usually with primary industries that produce two types of goods 09:41:01 <Ethereal_Whisper> So peter1138 if you were to signal this farm supplies pickup station how would you do it differently than I do for a basic two-platform terminus? http://i.imgur.com/xHqBF1C.png 09:41:06 <Ethereal_Whisper> Assuming right-handed track 09:41:21 <Wolf01> sometimes I build fully bidirectional 4 lanes tracks with just pbs on the safe waiting areas and no signals in the tracks 09:42:49 <Wolf01> trains decide which lane to use, even all 4 in the same direction 09:43:29 <Ethereal_Whisper> Because this is how I signal it: http://i.imgur.com/nZ0nbRA.png 09:49:41 <Wolf01> mmh, do you know what is missing for cargodist? a dedicated set of orders like "cargo for next stop is <,>,= x" 09:51:08 <peter1138> Ethereal_Whisper, just one path signal, where you have the entrance presignal. 09:51:48 <peter1138> Wouldn't've needed to move the station for that. 09:52:20 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/LpLW8Ec.png like this? 09:52:27 <peter1138> With path signals you don't need signals for each platform as it's a terminus, and you don't need a signal for the exit 09:52:40 <peter1138> Like that but without the exit signal 09:52:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> Move what station? It's a separate pickup station. This one supplies farming supplies, Gongfingway-on-sea South supplies chemicals from the same industry 09:53:04 <peter1138> That signal will cause the station to block unnecessarily. 09:53:07 <Ethereal_Whisper> What exit signal, there's a one-way at the entrance 09:53:32 <peter1138> I mean the signal at the junction exit (not presignal exit) 09:53:34 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/8DWGoaj.png 09:54:09 <Ethereal_Whisper> Can you elaborate? 09:54:16 <Ethereal_Whisper> I've zoomed in to where there are two signals 09:54:17 <peter1138> In your first picture the platforms were one block nearer the junction, heh 09:54:31 <Ethereal_Whisper> Oh, yeah, I fucked up in the original screenshot lol 09:54:35 <peter1138> Exactly, you only need the one signal. 09:54:43 <peter1138> Ethereal_Whisper, with path signals, that wasn't a fuckup. 09:54:56 <peter1138> At least, not for signal space :) 09:56:08 <Ethereal_Whisper> So I can save one tile of space by using the PBS construction it seems, for the "basic terminus" station type 09:56:31 <peter1138> yeah, only terminus though 09:56:42 <Ethereal_Whisper> Since you seem to hate pre-signals, how about RoRo station entrances like this? http://i.imgur.com/APVFm33.png 09:57:56 <peter1138> I don't hate :p 09:58:11 <Ethereal_Whisper> So let me build an example 09:58:13 <Ethereal_Whisper> one sec 09:58:16 <peter1138> For that station, I'd make the first entrance presignal a path signal 09:58:27 <peter1138> And then remove the rest of the presignals. 09:58:38 <peter1138> See, it saves money ;) 09:59:28 <Wolf01> do stations count as safe waiting areas? I don't remember 09:59:38 <peter1138> Yeah 09:59:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> Both stations will function the same and "Transfer" has a smaller footprint so I save space with it, is that correct? 10:01:02 <Alkel_U3> afaik stations don't function as a safe waiting area - the train needs to reserve a path up to one beyond the station 10:01:28 <Ethereal_Whisper> I think you're wrong about the RoRo station entrance though; once the exit signal is cleared by the train (and the entrance should be TL to give it ample deceleration space) then the pre-signals upstream will turn green 10:01:54 <Ethereal_Whisper> If I remove all signals from entry track then the PBS at the entrance track will stay red until the train is entirely on the platform 10:02:13 <Wolf01> eh, that's what I thought, when the train reverses and 2 trains need to exit the station at the same time they might crash 10:02:53 <Ethereal_Whisper> That's why you give load-balanced TL+1 exit paths with block signals for the merge 10:03:29 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/2CvOJJ8.png Gonfingway-on-sea North is a perfectly balanced, 3-platform RoRo station 10:03:47 <Alkel_U3> Ethereal_Whisper: no, the point of path signals is, more trains can enter one block if they can reserve their way through without colision 10:03:59 <Wolf01> I don't use block signals or load balancers on stations, I don't need to 10:04:06 <peter1138> Wolf01, no, they'll wait to reserve a path 10:04:39 <Ethereal_Whisper> Wolf01, don't take this the wrong way, but that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard 10:04:51 <Alkel_U3> the reservation is destroyed right behind the train as it goes 10:05:56 <Wolf01> Ethereal_Whisper, I use waypoints and PBS, and a low number of trains, I'm not an OTTDCoop guy 10:06:04 <Ethereal_Whisper> If all your lines are very low capacity then yeah, load balancing, signaling, and priority merges are all pointless, because the odds are so low that two trains will try to use the same track otherwise at any given point is irrelevant and happens once in a blue moon 10:06:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> Like there are some "proper" building techniques to balance everything that can be ignored on low-capacity side lines, or that can fuck off entirely on shunt lines 10:07:45 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/FVf8ZHE.png for example these non-doubled bridges, which are headed to a single pickup station and the chances that multiple trains will ever try to pass over in either direction is literally 0 10:07:58 <Ethereal_Whisper> So I didn't bother to double those bridges 10:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> your argument about path signal "staying read" when a block signal would be green is still nonsense... 10:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> if anything, the path signal could turn green one tile earlier 10:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> because the tile the block signal is on doesn't need to be cleared 10:11:05 * peter1138 looks at reddit/openttd for amusement. 10:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause> can't imagine that being ammusing 10:12:48 <Ethereal_Whisper> I mean if you have a signal density of 8 and a general train length of 3 then yeah, capacity of the line is generally reduced and stations can be unoptimal because the amount of incoming trains is going to be low thanks to the signal gap of 8 10:13:08 <Ethereal_Whisper> There's no reason to spread trains out that much on lines though, since you can make it 2 and still have the ability to junction properly 10:15:42 <Wolf01> that wouldn't even match my playstyle, it's like building on maps which looks like motherboards, clearing mountains and filling seas 10:16:30 <Ethereal_Whisper> Well, terraforming is generally the one thing to avoid, since terraforming a large area is extremely expensive even in the late game where money otherwise generally "ceases to become an issue" 10:16:43 <Wolf01> just make a flat scenario with all industries on the edges and lay down straight tracks from one side to another 10:17:13 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/9CiQsGP.png building Tonnpool Lakeside and optimizing its trackage cost me millions, because the land just wasn't there 10:17:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen people play like that 10:17:32 <Wolf01> I don't have any problem to flat down a mountain 10 years after starting a game in 1925 10:18:20 <Ethereal_Whisper> My bankroll is 9 million in the year 1981 currently, so building new track/stations/trains is basically "I don't care how much this costs, make it optimal" but that level of terraforming that station wasn't an insignificant chunk of change 10:18:52 <Ethereal_Whisper> It's also a left handed station for some reason, I don't remember why 10:19:03 <Ethereal_Whisper> I mean it's because of where it merges with the trunk eventually, but still 10:19:09 <Ethereal_Whisper> YAY LEFT HANDED TRACK 10:19:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> I mean I'm a southpaw IRL so you'd think I wouldn't mind it 10:19:45 <Wolf01> so, you have just 0 in 1981 trying to optimise the tracks and such? 10:19:50 <Ethereal_Whisper> But I do come from a country that drives on the right, so wrapping my head around vehicles overtaking each other on the left just fucks with my head so if I can avoid it in a game for fun then I will, lol 10:20:32 <Wolf01> I have the same amount in 1950 building like Picasso 10:21:03 <Ethereal_Whisper> Wolf01, I'm trying to build an optimal rail network, where I deliver all types of cargo possible in the game (I have an industry replacer NewGRF) and having an optimal network so trains take the shortest path possible from their pickup station to their drop station 10:21:04 <Wolf01> and clearly not even optimised 10:22:22 <Ethereal_Whisper> I mean try to deliver cargo across the entire map because for non-perishable cargo, the longer it spends in transit, the more you get paid for its eventual delivery. The curves do diminish depending on cargo type 10:23:16 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/F2dCOiE.png that's the graph with FIRS, there aren't too many super sharp drops so in general the further you take it the more you get paid to deliver it 10:26:44 <Wolf01> I know that, I play with firs too 10:27:25 <Ethereal_Whisper> That's aprinciple of the base game also, not FIRS-related 10:27:48 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 10:28:31 <Wolf01> yeah, I'm playing this game since it was published, I think I know how it works 10:30:04 <Ethereal_Whisper> Okay. 10:30:36 <Ethereal_Whisper> So do you have an argument for playing with a signal gap of 11 for that broad of a following distance and not using prios/balanced stations other than "I don't feel like it" 10:30:47 <Wolf01> btw, these are my graphs http://imgur.com/BqiR383 not outstanding but I'm fine with the current game, I'm not looking for 1000 points or ⬠10000000000 profit 10:31:56 <Wolf01> I tried various play styles in these ages, and now I'm playing a style which I feel more funny, relaxed and pleasing to see 10:32:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> That's fair 10:33:21 <Wolf01> I had my huge 8-way super-optimised junctions time too, but it doesn't worth the effort 10:34:05 <Alkel_U3> also building and extending an organic mess is just as fun >P 10:34:33 <Wolf01> I had a mammoth trains period, I had a "only road vehicles" period, in some games I start with ships... 10:34:34 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-140-28.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 10:34:39 <Alkel_U3> how did my keyboard layout change again... 10:34:56 <Wolf01> did you try to not press alt+shift? 10:36:16 <Alkel_U3> no, that's not it - it changed from cs-qwertz to cz-querty - that isn even achiavable throug that 10:36:41 <Wolf01> what I learned in these years is that the top is not important, the important thing is to not lose early 10:37:52 <Alkel_U3> I'm having the mammoth trains period - for cargo it seems neat, not havig so many trains :-) 10:38:53 <Wolf01> the problem with mammoth trains is the loading time, you need to have good factories, or clusters of primary industries 10:39:31 <Wolf01> I was always funding new farms/mines around the stations to keep up 10:40:54 <Alkel_U3> I learned that with firs, mainly. Big enough secondary chains 10:42:04 <Wolf01> and FIRS is even easy, you just need to delivery machinery to mines and you'll get a production boost 10:42:09 <Alkel_U3> also I try to use autorefit to my advantage as much as possible. Trains hauling steel are usually compatible with the resulting goods 10:42:44 <Alkel_U3> so I can have, like a third less trains 10:42:58 <Wolf01> yeah, that's a good thing which was added in the later times, I played without grfs in the old times 10:43:34 <Alkel_U3> also I try to set it up so that the ore haulers bring some engineering supplies on their way back 10:43:49 <Wolf01> I usually do that too 10:44:13 <Wolf01> (not in this game) 10:48:00 <Alkel_U3> it's been a few months since I played. I've been thinking about starting a new game lately but I usually get bored and quit halfway through the configuration, choice of vehicle sets and stuff :P 10:48:39 <Wolf01> yes, that's what keep me from starting a new game 10:49:07 <Alkel_U3> also I'm not sure if I should play it single or gather a few people for multiplayer. Both have had their good and bad sides so far 10:50:29 <Wolf01> I play single because otherwise we'll end up with argues like the previous one 10:50:58 <Alkel_U3> :-) 10:52:25 <Alkel_U3> yeah, the playing styles of people tend to be a bit incompatible sometimes. I usually play different in multiplayer not because I really want to, but because people drive me to with their playing too competetively 10:52:55 <Alkel_U3> not that I blame them 10:53:31 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:53:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 10:55:05 <Ethereal_Whisper> Wolf01, I'm sorry for criticizing you for how you like to play 11:00:14 <Wolf01> no need to sorry, I'm not angry, I only don't like when people get angry with no reason because they don't like how do you play, or when somebody tries to force me to play in a way I don't like 11:00:28 <Wolf01> critics are always well accepted 11:02:32 * Wolf01 slaps V (feel free to return it when I'll behave as a dick) 11:22:03 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 11:23:18 <Ethereal_Whisper> Myself, the most "fun" I have is probably just to saturate lines with trains. I'm not skilled at building anything wider than double track trunks (sometimes I have the illusion of quadruple track in my games but it's really just two independent double track lines running next to each other) 11:23:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> I.e. it's LRLR not LLRR 11:23:55 <Ethereal_Whisper> More trains = more fun so I tend to keep things short (I tend to go with a train length of 3 just because) 11:24:15 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'd rather use two 3.0 trains than a single 6.0 train, for example 11:25:29 <Ethereal_Whisper> Especially since, if I went with a train length of 6, I'd feel compelled to build my turns and junctions to accommodate that train length as such 11:26:33 <Ethereal_Whisper> I do very occasionally go with a shorter train length than what I build my trunks to, for a variety of occasional reasons. For example in this game, every train has a length of 3, except my alcohol trains which have a length of 2 11:26:40 <Ethereal_Whisper> But I only go shorter than the default, never longer 11:28:50 <Alkel_U3> I think I rarely go over 12 11:30:06 <Alkel_U3> seeing a 4-tile pax express overtake a much larger and slower freight train is nice :-) 11:30:52 <Alkel_U3> seeing the freight train cut it of at the next junction because of poor routing choices is less nice but that's just part of the game :D 11:31:22 <Ethereal_Whisper> I've discovered that the max is 7 and haven't found a NewGRF that actually successfully gives me a longer train 11:32:22 <Alkel_U3> what does the successfullness mean? Like, poor performance? 11:32:45 <Ethereal_Whisper> Actually lets me build a train with a length longer than 7.0 11:33:49 <Alkel_U3> huh. Are you sure you don't have it restricted in openttd config? I havent met a set that would place such a limitation especially on cargo trains 11:34:16 <Ethereal_Whisper> Not sure, and I'm also drunk right now so lol 11:35:19 <Alkel_U3> counting down to end of the shift, then I'll join your drunkedness 11:35:32 <Ethereal_Whisper> Wooo 11:36:29 <Alkel_U3> nothing like getting soaked with beer on friday 11:36:31 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db59a2e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 11:37:03 <Ethereal_Whisper> It's Friday at 4:36 a.m. here 11:37:54 <Alkel_U3> friday 1337 here 11:38:27 <Alkel_U3> the magical time of the day. Other being 4:20 11:38:38 <Ethereal_Whisper> Where do you live? 11:39:22 <Alkel_U3> Czech republic, Prague 11:39:43 <Ethereal_Whisper> Cool :) 11:39:55 <Ethereal_Whisper> One of my favorite hockey players is Czech if you may know him 11:39:59 <Ethereal_Whisper> His name is Martin Hanzal 11:40:19 <Alkel_U3> or, Czechia, how the stupid officials decided we will represent ourselves :P 11:41:21 <Alkel_U3> unfortunately, I'm not interested at hockey at all - I even almost didn't notice the recent championship :-) 11:42:15 <Alkel_U3> I used to 18 years ago, but than Transport Tycoon dragged me from such cool stuff to work on train lines full time :D 11:42:17 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm obsessed with hockey 11:42:31 <Alkel_U3> co, are you Canadian? :-) 11:42:34 <Alkel_U3> *so 11:42:35 <Ethereal_Whisper> no 11:42:36 <Ethereal_Whisper> Lol 11:42:50 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm also a professional in the sport so I'm kind of also paid to be obsessed with it :P 11:43:11 <Alkel_U3> ah :-) 11:47:05 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/fb7N95m.png this game lets me build stuff like this though so that's fun 11:47:06 <Ethereal_Whisper> :) 11:50:36 <Alkel_U3> Luckily I can't showcase my spagheti mesh abomination right now :P 11:51:33 <Alkel_U3> Now excuse me while I go exchange my services for my employer's currency 11:51:47 <Ethereal_Whisper> Have fun :) 12:13:16 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 12:37:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:55:22 *** gelignite_ [~gelignite@x4e307195.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 12:55:24 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 12:58:31 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db59a2e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:56 *** Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-241-224-121.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FjWe31S_0g] 13:03:26 *** einstein [~oftc-webi@190.144.227.70] has joined #openttd 13:03:33 *** einstein [~oftc-webi@190.144.227.70] has quit [] 13:05:24 *** Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-241-224-121.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:06:00 <Samu> microsoft is being mean with that windows 10 update 13:08:44 <Samu> they are now schedulling an automated migration from win7 to win10. If my parents weren't looking, windows would start migrating itself without notice... that is really stupid 13:11:43 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d08f312.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:12:49 <Samu> I don't understand what microsoft is trying to accomplish here, are they trying to piss off customers who don't want to migrate? 13:13:54 <Wolf01> it's simple, they don't want windows 7/8/8.1 around anymore 13:14:26 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:36 <Samu> an automated migration without user consent is just wrong 13:15:46 <Alkel_U3> yeah, but it makes some people not want windows around anymore in return. Well, their call. 13:16:25 <Wolf01> btw, I can't understand why people don't want windows 10 13:17:42 <Alkel_U3> I set up win7 for my mom, she can and needs to work with that. I don't want her calling me what the hell happened to her computer when she wasn't looking :-) 13:18:10 <Alkel_U3> the transition probably wouldn't be as painful 13:18:24 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:49 <Wolf01> I set up ubuntu 12.04 for mom and now she has 16.04, I didn't touch it and she only complained about touch pad drivers being disabled every odd update and re-enabled on even ones 13:20:22 <Wolf01> the only downside was that she wasn't able to scroll with 2 fingers 13:20:42 <Alkel_U3> the other concern is, albeit a bit paranoid, maybe, that they're steering it into a direction where I kinda worry when for example the updates will be for paing subscribers only, that it will be more a service like photoshop. But that's quite hypothetical so far 13:22:42 <Wolf01> the system updates will be free, they don't want to bother again with problems caused by vulnerable systems because people don't want to update, if you don't want to update, then internet isn't your place, please purchase an ipad (which updates itself every now and then) 13:22:46 <Alkel_U3> the software my mom needed to run because of work I couldn't get up on linux, despite it being a java thing. But it broke now so I need to teach her how to get to work over remote desktop and I can do that from linux just as well 13:23:31 <Alkel_U3> I never said I don't like updates :-) 13:23:39 <Wolf01> you = generic 13:24:13 <Alkel_U3> ah, ok. I thought there was a misunderstanding 13:24:58 *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd 13:25:48 <Alkel_U3> well, win7 should be getting support for another half-a-fourth year so I have time to think about upgrading / replacing 13:26:17 <Wolf01> the problem is that the upgrade is really free until 31 july 13:26:53 <Alkel_U3> personaly, I'll be happier to have mom running linux 13:27:08 <Samu> I doubt about that free thing 13:27:20 <Wolf01> I'm, because I don't have to bother with viruses twice a week 13:27:22 <Samu> I bet they will find a way to force the upgrade anyway 13:27:28 <Samu> free or not 13:27:53 <Wolf01> after july they won't force anything 13:28:10 <Wolf01> you want it, you pay, you had 1 year to do it freely 13:28:13 <Samu> we'll see 13:29:16 <Wolf01> btw, I know there are paranoid people, scared by cortana and data gathering, but do you really think it wasn't hidden in old OSes? 13:29:29 <Samu> there is no Cortana in Portugal 13:30:23 <Samu> I'm not worried about data gathering stuff 13:30:47 <Samu> When i first installed Windows 10 on my system, configuration was hell 13:31:08 <Samu> they assume everyone got a microsoft account, well no 13:31:17 <Wolf01> which configuration? I only had to disable the ads 13:31:43 <Samu> they assume a set of defaults which I never cared for 13:31:55 <Samu> like OneDrive 13:31:57 <Samu> an email 13:32:07 <Samu> a password on login screen, I don't set that 13:32:27 <Samu> I don't want to "sync" my system with whatever they think it's useful over onedrive 13:32:46 <Samu> and damn it they basically treated my PC like it was a phone 13:33:28 <Samu> coming from windows 7 to windows 10, this is a huge difference, my parents would be mad 13:33:57 <Wolf01> it is the same, it changes a little if you don't really use the settings 13:34:06 <Samu> they are pre-defined 13:34:18 <Samu> I had to re-configure them to the way I wanted 13:34:37 <Wolf01> try changing from gnome to unity desktop to the stuff they have now on ubuntu, that's madness 13:34:51 <Wolf01> but my parents didn't complain 13:35:39 <Wolf01> and they don't use the computer, they use the browser and the printer 13:35:43 <Samu> also my parents use IE, have always used IE, now there's only Edge 13:35:52 <Wolf01> like the 90% of the other people 13:36:19 <Samu> I won't even know if Office 2007 is compatible with Windows 10 without complaining about "trying out Office 365 free for 1 month" 13:36:42 <Wolf01> maybe it's because my parents are open minded and they get used if something changes 13:36:46 <Samu> this is the aversion I and my parents got about windows 10 13:38:34 <Wolf01> I had office 2013, but I purchased office 365 because it's well integrated with onedrive and I use it on my smartphone too 13:40:14 <peter1138> parp 13:48:09 <Samu> after going throgh the hell that is re-configuring windows 10 to what I wanted, the OS isn't all that bad, but that's because I can accomodate easily to the differences. But knowing my parents, Windows 10 for them will be horrible 13:48:41 <Samu> That's why they decided to stay on Windows 7. 13:57:53 <Wolf01> it's like when they added the ribbon bar to office... disgusted people everywhere, and I found it really interesting and useful 13:58:58 <Wolf01> maybe most of the disgusted people found it useful too, but they were disgusted by principle, things must not change 14:05:34 <peter1138> Like path signals... 14:06:28 <Wolf01> PBS, PBS everywhere! 14:11:35 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 14:49:44 <supermop> Wolf01: everyone hated when they added the ribbon to autocad and revit, but i quite like it 14:50:36 <supermop> though i still do >90% of commands by text or hot key, i find its easier to use the more seldom-used tools now 14:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a ribbon? i always stayed away from office, it never did what i wanted it to do 14:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess my brain was always too far in the wordperfect mindset to get along with word... 14:51:54 <supermop> i also hated how the ribbon would change contextually but now i love that i dont need to have tons of separate toolbars and pallets out when i dont need them 14:52:20 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: a big toolbar thats about 4cm tall 14:53:17 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 14:53:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 14:53:23 <Alberth> moin 14:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> moan 14:54:01 <Alberth> having a hard time? 14:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> minor 14:54:39 <Wolf01> o/ 14:55:04 <Wolf01> V got angry :P 14:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> does he ever not? :p 14:57:33 <Wolf01> this time he was more pissed off, like that time I discussed about train reverse with Alberth ;) 14:57:56 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 14:58:40 <Eddi|zuHause> some people will never understand the aesthetics aspect of the game 14:59:59 <supermop> i recall v getting angry abt bridges or something ~3 years ago and i couldn't understand his position myself 15:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i usually understand his position, but i almost never agree with it 15:01:53 <Wolf01> mmmh, I have an elbow bigger than the other... or maybe it's the shirt 15:03:01 <supermop> i mean there are at least 20 distinct "main" ways to play this game, and every user has a unique subtype of playstyle combining various parts of those 15:03:31 <supermop> my brother only plays realistic games, but also only plays without newgrfs 15:04:11 <Wolf01> how does he play realistic without buffer stops? 15:04:43 <Samu> how do I start servers with the same seed? 15:06:21 <Samu> want to have the same map generated 15:07:08 <Wolf01> generate it with one server, save and load it on every server? 15:07:25 <peter1138> openttd -h 15:08:29 <Samu> but they have different AI configs 15:08:41 <Samu> can't do the save and load method 15:09:41 <Samu> -G seed = Set random seed 15:09:57 <Samu> i tried -G 1 -D 15:10:04 <Samu> didn't work 15:10:25 <Samu> got different maps 15:10:39 <Wolf01> did you try a different number? 15:10:42 <_dp_> set seed in config file? 15:11:40 <Samu> gonna try config file then 15:11:41 <Samu> brb 15:12:32 <Alberth> all settings in worldgen etc must be the same too 15:13:08 <supermop> Wolf01: same way that every power plant gets a beautiful glass roofed station for dropping off coal i guess 15:13:24 <Wolf01> brrrr... 15:13:26 <Samu> getseed Generation Seed: 54832461 15:13:37 <Samu> nop, didn't work with openttd.cfg either 15:13:58 <Samu> i set it to 1 15:14:11 <Wolf01> listen to Alberth 15:14:31 <Samu> it didn't care for the seed :( 15:14:53 <Samu> I believe they're all equal 15:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: wanna explain that to ST2? he thinks there is one REAL game style to play. 15:14:59 <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a0p2ozX_460s.jpg lol, how to make something more ugly 15:15:01 <Samu> worldgen settings 15:15:08 <Samu> gonna re-check to make sure 15:15:19 <supermop> ha, no i don't want to explain 15:15:24 <ST2> Eddi|zuHause: peace, I'm dumb sometimes ;) 15:15:44 <supermop> because i cannot for the life of me understand arguing about an open source game 15:16:09 <Samu> only thing that differs is generation seed 15:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> ST2: not sure how that is an argument in your favor... 15:17:04 <supermop> unless someone starts prohibiting styles of play by patching out certain features from trunk, i have no issue with people leaving each other be to play however they wish 15:17:06 <ST2> neither I'm saying so ^^ 15:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: don't put andy in charge then :p 15:17:41 <Wolf01> supermop: +1 15:17:58 <supermop> i do wish there were more servers out there to play with Cdist on, because i enjoy playing with it 15:18:42 <Samu> hmm, it doesn't work :( 15:18:53 <Samu> tried "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\openttd.exe" -D -G 1 15:18:58 <supermop> so i personally have less fun when i do play on a server, but i do not have the time to run servers with my preferred setting anyway 15:19:05 <Samu> getseed gives me completely random values 15:19:10 <supermop> so i take what i can get 15:19:26 <Samu> tried setting generation_seed in config 15:19:32 <Samu> then started with "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\openttd.exe" -D 15:19:46 <Samu> it doesn't use the value in the config, getseed gives a random value 15:23:41 <Samu> is it -G seed=1? 15:24:19 <Samu> nop, also not 15:24:27 <Alberth> openttd -h should tell you, but I don't think "seed=" is correct 15:24:39 <Alberth> maybe a different value from 1 ? 15:24:46 <Alberth> it may be special in some way 15:26:20 <Alberth> also, try the same server first, that should at least work before trying a different one 15:26:27 <_dp_> remember there being an opposite problem, server always picking same seed... did it get fixed backwards?xD 15:27:09 <Alberth> no idea; I did have some trouble there too, but I don't remember the solution :( 15:27:25 <Alberth> hmm, is there a console command to set the seed? 15:27:25 <ST2> _dp_, I guess that happened when reload_cfg = true (if my memory dnt fails me ^^) 15:27:35 <Samu> getseed - console command 15:27:42 <Alberth> SET the seed 15:27:52 <_dp_> I know your solution, hardcoded it to random somewhere xD 15:27:52 <Samu> ah, i don't think so 15:27:58 <Samu> there's newgame 'seed' 15:28:14 <Samu> and there's setting blablaseed = 123412312 15:28:17 <Alberth> setting the seed of openttd.cfg? 15:28:23 <Alberth> ah indeed 15:29:10 <Alberth> tried that? 15:29:22 <_dp_> *our.. why a I always typing it wrong... 15:29:35 <Alberth> typing is hard :) 15:31:34 <_dp_> especially touch typing... sometimes fingers just type smth on their own %) 15:31:47 <Samu> hmm, how do I test that? 15:32:57 <Samu> so hmm, i generate the map twice? 15:33:24 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:34:05 <peter1138> urgh, wsdl file that i can't open :S 15:35:01 <Samu> i think i found a way, not optimal, but... might work 15:35:10 <Samu> will try 15:37:28 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:45 <Samu> nop, lol, i'm so dumb sometimes 15:39:50 <_dp_> ha, I probably know why... tried learning another keyboard layout recently, almost broke my brain xD 15:39:57 <Samu> it was continuously starting a new game indefinitely 15:41:08 <_dp_> very weird feeling when you consciously type in one layout but subconsciously in other %) 15:44:32 <Alberth> build an AI detecting the keyboard mode of your brain :p 15:45:53 <Samu> yes, I did it 15:46:37 <Samu> I typed setting game_creation.generation_seed 1 into pre_server.scr 15:46:43 <_dp_> doing some mind-machine interface for typing would probably be easier xD 15:46:53 <Samu> launching openttd.exe -D now creates the same map 15:47:02 <Alberth> +1 for the MMI :p 15:47:51 <Alberth> you could also consider making DWIM (do what I mean) 15:56:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B6FD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:58:21 <Samu> just started my testing 15:58:34 <Samu> thx for the help 16:00:37 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 16:05:45 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:22:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:26:07 <Samu> hmm i think the map might be too small 16:27:59 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 16:33:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6B9B3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:39:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6B6FD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:31 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:40:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:40:45 <Samu> yea, there isn't a sufficient distance to accomodate some of WormAIs parameters 16:40:53 <Samu> map needs to be larger 16:41:34 <Samu> brb, gonna setup larger map 16:48:28 <Samu> cpu usage 100%, not a good sign :( 16:51:39 <Samu> autosaves :o 16:59:11 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:53 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 17:12:50 <Samu> Yesterday night, I worked on a fix for that savegame issue 17:14:02 <Samu> https://noai.openttd.org/docs/trunk/classAIController.html#_details 17:14:25 <Samu> tried to make openttd behave as close as these instructions 17:15:19 <Samu> and I came up with this https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phjib9464?/phjib9464 17:15:57 <Samu> it repeats part of the code, because uh I don't know how to make it better 17:17:55 <Samu> the entire function now looks like this https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p7fdfcmh8 17:18:01 <Samu> very repetitive :( 17:19:36 <Wolf01> 'night 17:19:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 17:23:22 <Samu> "load the exact same version of the same script," - this was the part I focused most 17:29:35 <Samu> if it was saved with wormai.4 in the name, it will load wormai version 4, even if both version 4 and version 5 are installed the system 17:30:29 <Samu> if it was saved with wormai in the name, it will load wormai version 5 17:30:32 <Alberth> euhm, how do you ever fix a bug in an AI then? 17:32:09 <Samu> for as long as the AI is started without version appended to its name, it will load the latest compatible version 17:34:12 <Alberth> coding a version into the name to force some behavior sounds silly to me 17:34:41 <Alberth> imho there should not be magic words in a name 17:34:57 <Alberth> or magic digits, in your case 17:35:38 <Samu> i tried a game where i started wormai in 3 different ways 17:35:50 <Samu> start wormai.4, start wormai.5, start wormai 17:36:12 <Alberth> most people just select an ai, or let a random ai select 17:36:16 <Samu> i got wormai 4 loaded, then wormai 5 loaded, then wormai 5 loaded 17:38:05 <Samu> well, I don't really know, i tried to follow the behaviour from the documentation 17:38:11 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@000128fa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:38:30 <Samu> documentation isn't exactly clear as to what is intended or not 17:38:47 <Samu> but wormnest interpretation makes sense 17:39:13 <Alberth> normally, code wins over documentation 17:39:48 <glx> usually doc is not updated with code 17:39:49 <Alberth> the change history should tell you when both were created, and if there were reasons for changing either 17:41:15 <Samu> how do i check change history? 17:41:53 <Samu> repo-browser? 17:42:46 <Samu> yeah, seems to be this, last change was by rubidium 17:42:57 <Samu> 25-04-2014 17:46:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1915B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:15:46 <_dp_> what's the best way to pad number with spaces in gs strings? (aka align to the right) 18:16:59 <Alberth> print right-aligned string, I think 18:17:47 <_dp_> print? 18:18:43 <_dp_> can't use arbitrary strings in gs, only ones defined in lang file 18:19:11 <_dp_> which is bad in many ways btw 18:20:28 <_dp_> best solution I can think of is to do like 10 strings with spaces and select right one each time 18:21:16 <_dp_> and ofc that takes 2 parameters per number :( 18:23:34 <Alberth> make numbers human readable, like 2k 5m ? 18:26:05 <_dp_> how do I make smth like 42 more "readable"?) 18:27:40 <Alberth> as 42 ? :) 18:27:50 <_dp_> I don't need big numbers, just want ones in 1-10000 range to take same space 18:28:12 <Alberth> or "answer to the question of life, universe and everything" 18:29:02 <_dp_> oh crap, forget numbers, I just realized smth more important... 18:29:14 <_dp_> how do I show company name that isn't in game anymore? 18:29:27 <Samu> truebrain was the author of ai_scanner.cpp, i think 18:29:45 <Samu> first time that file appeared has truebrain as author 18:30:03 <Alberth> not possible _dp_, afaik 18:30:39 <Samu> there hasn't been that many changes regarding this function, but i'm still exploring 18:31:35 <Samu> it seems the function was to be used with tar files in mind 18:31:42 <Samu> not really savegames 18:32:10 <Alberth> an AI in one .nut file isn't really feasible 18:32:35 <Samu> savegame support was added afterwards 18:32:47 <Samu> interesting, exploring the history of openttd :p 18:33:09 <Alberth> yep, contains a lot of information 18:34:19 <_dp_> Alberth, that's rly bad, I want to have a server that does'n restart immediately after someone reaches goal, but still have a scoreboard 18:35:19 <_dp_> can probably do that with smth like 10k lang strings (for every pair of letters), but that's horrible solution 18:35:24 <Alberth> you might be able to do something with the admin port 18:36:25 <_dp_> hm, can I change goals with admin port? 18:36:38 <Alberth> not sure 18:36:40 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 18:37:35 <Alberth> it would be part of being able to talk from admin port to gs and vice versa 18:38:08 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 18:38:17 <Alberth> communication experiments were at least planned, but with what exactly, I don't know 18:38:41 <_dp_> nah, if gs can't do it no communication would help 18:39:07 <Alberth> admin port gets names of companies afaik 18:39:20 <_dp_> my only hope is that admin port can somehow use strings from openttd lang files, not only gs ones 18:39:31 <_dp_> problem is not to get name, it's to show it 18:39:43 <Alberth> oh right :( 18:40:22 <Alberth> admin port doesn't show anything in-game, except perhaps chat if you connect that 18:40:57 <Alberth> or stuff at a website :p 18:42:19 <_dp_> I'm actually patching server directly so don't need admin port for this 18:42:38 <_dp_> but still can't find way to bypass string formatting stuff 18:43:23 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@000128fa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 18:43:34 <_dp_> got an idea though, mb I can do smth with STR_JUST_RAW_STRING, need to check that 18:46:19 <_dp_> and smth like STR_ORANGE_STRING for coloring 18:46:28 <_dp_> cheesy as hell, but may work %) 18:50:21 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:48 <_dp_> nah, SCC_ENCODED forces all stings to be from gs tab :( 19:11:14 <_dp_> and str_validate filters out all control codes 19:11:35 <_dp_> so can only use arbitrary string if it has to formatting 19:11:36 <Samu> nevermind, savegame support came first, tar support came after 19:11:41 <_dp_> *no 19:11:48 <Samu> i was looking at this in the wrong order 19:12:58 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:19:36 <peter1138> herpderp 19:19:45 <_dp_> ok, can use train group name, and put string there... that's something 19:19:47 <peter1138> do i want to play? 19:20:08 <peter1138> did V ever come back? heh 19:21:37 <peter1138> although... this mouse cursor issue is bugging me :p 19:22:50 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:28:28 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 19:34:52 *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has joined #openttd 19:35:21 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:13 <NoShlomo> Hello, is there any way to see how many times a vehicle completes its orders in a month? 19:36:46 <Alberth> no 19:36:49 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 19:37:00 <Alberth> except watch it for a month :) 19:37:54 <NoShlomo> that's a lot of watching hehe 19:38:04 <Alberth> why do you want to know? 19:38:59 <Alberth> if you know what it's making in one cycle, you can more or less guestimate number of cycles in a month 19:39:29 <NoShlomo> To know how many vehicles I need transporting raw materials to roughly transport it all a month 19:39:53 <Alberth> but I usually don't care about the number of cycles, I just buy enough trains to transport stuff :) 19:40:00 <NoShlomo> hehe 19:40:01 <NoShlomo> also 19:40:14 <NoShlomo> can factories have too many raw materials being delivered? 19:40:21 <Alberth> yes 19:40:44 <NoShlomo> Time to forcefeed stuff 19:41:00 <Alberth> max is around number of accepting tiles * 255 * 8 or so 19:41:35 <Alberth> if you use newgrf industries like ECS, limit is much sooner 19:41:52 <Alberth> but that's because it has a programmed upper stockpile limit 19:42:48 <NoShlomo> I'm using firs but that's a lot 19:43:04 <frosch123> NoShlomo: in the orders window, there is a timetable button in the top right 19:43:11 <Alberth> nah, firs is quite doable :) 19:43:20 <frosch123> that will tell you how many days a trip took last time 19:44:51 <NoShlomo> ooooh frosch123 this is very handy 19:44:52 <NoShlomo> thank you 19:47:49 <NoShlomo> Another question (I think this is the last one :P), an industry is producing x tonnes and it says next to it I'm delivering 67% despite the fact that there's always a vehicle sitting there waiting for more goods to be loaded. Is the remaining goods not transported what on the wiki says the industry keeps to itself and won't give me? 19:48:37 <frosch123> yes, you need new and fast vehicles, and a statue to get more 19:48:50 <frosch123> "fast" may mean 200 km/h, which may not even exist 19:49:16 <NoShlomo> a statue? 19:49:29 <frosch123> yes, a statue in the next town 19:49:34 <frosch123> gives you 10% iirc 19:49:38 <NoShlomo> oooh right 19:49:45 <Alberth> something like that indeed 19:49:57 <NoShlomo> and getting deliveries done faster makes them give you more stuff as well? 19:50:18 <frosch123> the delivery does not need to be fast, just the engine needs to look fast :p 19:50:28 <Alberth> for all the spoilers, read the Game Mechanics wiki page :) 19:52:22 <NoShlomo> I see, thanks a lot frosch123 and Alberth 19:54:50 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:56:12 <Samu> i found something odd 19:56:29 <Samu> one of the revisions broke something, then only after 500 or so 19:56:46 <Samu> it gets fixed, and the fix is exactly what it was before it was broken 19:57:40 <Samu> interesting 19:59:05 <Samu> i wonder who broke it, let me get author 19:59:09 <Samu> lel 20:04:53 <Samu> yexo 20:04:57 <Samu> yexo broke it 20:05:13 <Samu> and who fixed it was... 20:05:57 <Samu> yexo 20:06:03 <Samu> heh... he broke, then he fix 20:06:05 <Samu> okay 20:07:08 <Samu> the first time it was implemented it was by... 20:08:50 <Samu> truebrain 20:10:10 <TrueBrain> Samu Samu Samu 20:10:18 <TrueBrain> lets all do some useless highlighting 20:10:20 <TrueBrain> yippie 20:10:22 <TrueBrain> join the fun! 20:10:40 <Samu> oh, :o 20:10:57 <Samu> i thought you weren't in irc 20:11:03 <Samu> sorry about that 20:14:37 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:15:50 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 20:16:11 *** FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:19:53 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-140-28.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 20:21:29 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:40:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> man, i always remember that i wanted to show frosch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvLNNC2rupI when he leaves... 20:45:25 *** Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:58 <Samu> (svn r18944) -Change [FS#3232]: use the highest version of an AI that can load the AI data from a savegame instead of the exact same version 20:49:13 <Samu> how do i access FS#3232 thing? 20:50:03 <Xaroth|Work> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3232 20:50:20 <Samu> ty 21:02:03 *** kais58__ is now known as kais58|AFK 21:09:45 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:09:55 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 21:09:58 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08f312.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 21:24:38 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:09 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:26:32 *** Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1287:6300:f547:37f9:5657:8e0a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:10 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:29:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:30:17 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:04 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:27 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 21:47:54 *** Alyx_Moon [~AlyxMoon@c-71-193-133-211.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:48:06 <Samu> just finished counting how many times "AIInfo *AIScannerInfo::FindInfo(const char *nameParam, int versionParam, bool force_exact_match)" has been changed 21:48:20 <Samu> not many, 14 times only 21:48:41 *** Alyx_Moon [~AlyxMoon@c-71-193-133-211.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 22:07:47 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__ 22:12:28 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 22:24:49 <Samu> I see yexo broke many stuff that was working in the first place 22:24:53 <Samu> t.t 22:25:24 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08f312.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:25:49 <Samu> or maybe I don't understand the purpose 22:28:11 <Samu> i think this functions needs to be re-written from zero, the call hierarchy is quite big 22:28:37 <Samu> it doesn't seem to accomodate to all case scenarios 22:30:54 <Samu> i dunno, just me saying... what do i know after all 22:31:39 <NoShlomo> With asymmetrical cargo distribution, does it still work fine if I force unload all the passengers on a station that doesn't take any passengers? 22:32:11 <NoShlomo> but then, if I take them to a station that doesn't take passengers either, I can only force unload all of them 22:43:49 <Samu> nevermind, it was truebrain who broke it this time :( 22:43:55 <NoShlomo> err, am I supposed to do 'station walking'? Just found out about this, is there no other way? 22:44:35 <Samu> sorry, it's been a long time I played with cargodist 22:44:47 <Samu> can't remember details 22:46:10 <Samu> the passengers should say where they want to go next 22:48:27 <NoShlomo> the problem is I have 2 cities, but I built train stations far away and they don't accept anything, so passengers only want specific destinations within their towns, and the rest of them don't care at all 22:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist handles "unload all" orders just fine 22:49:35 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes with such connections, the passengers take a while to recognize the new link 22:50:39 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:45 <Samu> wouldn't "transfer" work in that case? 22:50:50 <NoShlomo> What happens if I add a 3rd city but unload all of them to the 2nd city? 22:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if there's a valid connection, they will figure it out after a while 22:52:09 <NoShlomo> that's pretty odd but I'll try it, cheers 22:52:53 <Samu> their final destination is probably in the same city, but just another station within the same city 22:55:59 <Samu> pay attention to where they wanna go, not where you want them to go, it's easier this way 22:58:04 <Samu> TrueBrain: maybe you could help, it seems you were the first to implement this code 22:59:21 <Samu> "-Change [NoAI]: make the AI finder a bit more clever, mostly related to version finding " - you made it dumber :( 22:59:26 <Samu> hehe, sorry 23:00:16 <Samu> this was on r15095 23:02:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1915B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:53 <Samu> oops, that wasn't the version 23:05:08 <Samu> my bad, i should always double check before talking :( 23:06:10 <NoShlomo> okay yeah seems to work, I have all passenger vehicles on transfer+takeanycargo on all passenger stations and feeders 23:06:16 <NoShlomo> thanks a lot 23:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you should not use "transfer 23:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> " 23:07:24 <NoShlomo> really? why? 23:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "transfer" means "never deliver any cargo", so if all your orders have "transfer", nobody ever arrives anywhere 23:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> they just eternally go in circles 23:09:29 <NoShlomo> woops 23:10:10 <NoShlomo> so transfer should be on the feeder trains that go around the stations that dont actually take passengers 23:10:17 <Samu> are you in a multiplayer game? I'd like to take a look 23:10:38 <NoShlomo> and the ones that take passengers just normal unload? 23:10:45 <NoShlomo> I'm in singleplayer hehe 23:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can just leave out transfer altogether, cargodist does that automatically 23:11:14 <NoShlomo> Gotten back into ottd after not playing for a year and a half 23:11:22 <Eddi|zuHause> transfer is for when you use "manual" distribution 23:13:25 <Samu> the fix log for r15095 and r15096 confuse me 23:13:39 <Samu> isn't it the other way around 23:14:15 <NoShlomo> hmmm I don't understand that, is it to for example move coal along 3 stations that take coal, with train 1 A->B and train 2 picking up the coal on B and going to C? 23:14:36 <NoShlomo> so station B doesn't take the coal for itself 23:18:38 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 23:19:05 <NoShlomo> I see, thanks 23:33:07 <Samu> nevermind, not confused anymore, it's just me being dumb, as always 23:33:39 <Samu> there's 2 lists info_list and info_single_list 23:34:36 <Samu> info_list - includes all versions of the same script, info_list - includes only the latest version of the same script 23:35:12 <Samu> info_list - includes all versions of the same script, info_single_list - includes only the latest version of the same script 23:35:20 <Samu> :( that typo