Log for #openttd on 1st June 2016:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:02:41  *** Samu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:11:51  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
00:13:47  *** Goddesen [~quassel@] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
00:16:18  *** Goddesen [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
00:18:35  *** Defaultti [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:19:20  *** chomwitt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:22:03  *** Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
00:27:03  *** Defaultti [] has joined #openttd
00:28:21  *** chomwitt [] has joined #openttd
00:56:28  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:02:35  *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd
02:06:36  *** Islacrusez [] has quit [Quit: if anyone's wondering, I've called the class "Tyrion Lannister (TM)"]
02:44:59  *** rahtgaz [] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach]
02:45:51  *** supermop_ [] has joined #openttd
03:03:39  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
03:50:23  <Flygon> I mean, I admire the ambition...
03:50:25  <Flygon> But without Finland
03:50:30  <Flygon> It looks rather... uhm
03:50:37  <Flygon> Adult.
03:50:56  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how finland would help with that...
03:51:21  <Eddi|zuHause> but i also thought whole scandinavia would be better
03:51:36  <Flygon> Without OpenTTD showing national borders, the sausage effect is far less noticable :P
03:53:12  <Flygon> Also, Finland is, like
03:53:13  <Flygon> Cute
03:53:18  <Flygon> In an angry stabby sort of way
03:53:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i kinda disagree
03:54:28  <Eddi|zuHause> in all "depictions" i know, finland was the ballsack of scandinavia's penis...
03:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it's something you cannot unsee...
03:55:10  <Flygon> Yes, but you can't see it as easily without the national borders :DD
04:01:47  *** ToneKnee [] has joined #openttd
04:07:50  *** ToneKnee_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:57:56  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:17:05  *** sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
06:23:19  *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@] has joined #openttd
06:42:41  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
07:07:10  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has joined #openttd
07:20:11  *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@] has joined #openttd
07:20:11  *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:29:11  *** chomwitt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:29:24  *** Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
07:31:50  *** Extrems [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:34:07  *** Hiddenfunstuff [] has joined #openttd
07:34:42  *** Extrems [] has joined #openttd
07:39:16  *** chomwitt [] has joined #openttd
07:45:06  <andythenorth> o/
08:03:40  *** Supercheese [] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
08:22:03  *** M-E [] has joined #openttd
08:27:34  <andythenorth> hmm
08:28:04  *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!]
08:38:39  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
08:40:50  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
08:51:54  *** M-E [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:52:37  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:08:51  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
09:29:35  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
09:29:42  <Wolf01> o/
09:47:53  *** DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:01:47  <V453000> o/
10:02:10  <Wolf01> oh, I tought the entire factoro tean went rogue... :D
10:02:14  <Wolf01> *factorio
10:02:29  <Wolf01> *totoro
10:02:45  <peter1138> ?
10:02:56  <Wolf01> hype
10:03:53  *** tvel [~tvel@] has joined #openttd
10:03:55  <V453000> not but I managed my new personal record of 21 hours of work per day XD
10:04:32  <Wolf01> you are crazy... the entire team, take your time please
10:05:09  <V453000> I already have some plans for the weekend so want to get the train wagon finished  asap :) am pretty much done
10:09:53  <Wolf01> I would have liked to have other plans for the weekend too... but I was ordered to work at the polling station for the elections, I hope they'll pay well
10:10:05  <peter1138> ordered? hmm
10:10:25  <Wolf01> yes, there aren't volunteers so they pick up random people
10:10:58  <Wolf01> and if you don't have a valid reason you must go to work
10:11:35  <Wolf01> and I don't have a valid reason, because "I'm reassembling lego sets" it isn't
10:12:42  <peter1138> heh
10:12:55  <V453000> what
10:12:58  <V453000> where are you from?
10:13:05  <Wolf01> italy
10:13:15  <Wolf01> what do you expect?
10:13:53  <V453000> idk, based on this volunteer system I expect something less democratic
10:14:14  <V453000> in our country people volunteer to do this shit, probably cause it is ~ok payed
10:14:27  <V453000> as a part time job for students it's nice
10:14:37  *** M-E [] has joined #openttd
10:16:27  <Wolf01> yes, that's the same here, but heh.. not enough volunteers this time, the polling will be on sunday and the poll count will go throught the night, people need to go to work or school on monday, so they will resort to unemployed people
10:17:47  <V453000> g
10:17:54  <V453000> 0.13 hype!
10:18:19  <Wolf01> hype
10:21:17  <V453000> I honestly can't wait to play ... the stuff I tested so far is great
10:21:28  <V453000> the new inserters actually do add some more variety
10:22:45  <V453000> and trainz, dem trainz
10:23:15  <Wolf01> autorail hype
10:27:13  *** rahtgaz [] has joined #openttd
10:27:55  *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:29:32  *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:29:37  *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@] has joined #openttd
10:29:58  *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
10:34:27  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
10:43:56  *** Samu [] has joined #openttd
10:43:59  <Samu> hi
10:46:50  <Samu> I'm not happy with Start AI, Stop AI, Reload AI 3-in-1 functionality
10:46:58  <Samu> gonna have to change
10:48:37  <Samu> more specifically, I don't liek accidentaly removal of dead AI Companies when there's dead AIs in the moving slots
10:50:21  <Samu> before I get lost, I am posting here my ideas. Reload AI functionality is to be removed. It resorts to Stop AI.
10:51:16  <Samu> Disable the ability to directly change configs of dead AIs
10:52:04  <Samu> Instead, Stop it first, to make the Select AI button enabled
10:52:39  <Samu> in this manner, there will be no more accidental removal of dead AI companies
10:53:38  <Samu> moving slots will only swap between non-AI slots
10:56:35  <peter1138> Any idea what this guy is going on about?
10:57:07  <Wolf01> redoing the ai/scripts UI
11:00:57  <Samu> peter1138:
11:05:19  *** Leanden_ [] has joined #openttd
11:05:25  <Leanden_> Hello all
11:05:31  <Leanden_> any NML experts in here?
11:06:02  <Leanden_> I have a question around loading of trains
11:16:57  <planetmaker> you should simply ask the question and hope your meta-question's answer is 'yes'
11:20:34  *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has left #openttd [Connection reset by peer]
11:22:42  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has joined #openttd
11:23:46  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:23:50  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
11:29:35  <Leanden_> I'm sure i've seen this in a set before but can't find any details on it, is there anyway to make it so that a passenger wagon can load and unload simultaneously? It doesnt make sense to me that you'd have to wait for all the passengers to get off before others can get on.
11:34:01  <andythenorth> for a single vehicle, no, afaik
11:34:17  <andythenorth> I am not going to go and read the station code for you though :)
11:34:32  <Eddi|zuHause> no
11:34:43  <peter1138> Hmm, is it worth risking something from China with the branding... CooSpo?
11:34:44  <Eddi|zuHause> also, have you ever been to a train station?
11:34:53  <andythenorth> if you have a ‘vehicle’ made up of multiple vehicles, then yes
11:35:01  <andythenorth> as per CETS or Iron Horse
11:35:12  <andythenorth> but it’s not worth it just to get a load/unload trick
11:35:36  <Eddi|zuHause> if people try to enter before everyone left, that generally causes chaos
11:37:36  *** Leanden_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:43:00  *** M-E [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:56:06  <Wolf01> V, steam disables the beta program at every update of factorio, do you know if it is intended or happens to others?
11:57:27  <Wolf01> I just figured out there was a 0.12.34 update out since 5 days ago
11:58:59  *** Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
12:03:58  <Wolf01> also I have a little suggestion which could be good for later 0.13 or 0.14, I know there are mods doing this but it will really help to avoid cluttering the inventory/building interface: inserters and pipes built with various configurations by simply rotating them with R
12:17:20  *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@] has joined #openttd
12:17:37  *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:18:02  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
12:19:09  <peter1138> I know nothing about Factorio. Are their devs here?
12:20:07  <Wolf01> no, just one of their graphics designers
12:26:09  *** Klanticus [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
12:26:33  <V453000> I don't even understand what do you mean :D
12:27:22  <Wolf01> something like this
12:27:41  <Wolf01> but with 1 instead of 3 for each type
12:28:11  <Wolf01> also
12:28:39  <supermop_> Eddi|zuHause: the train staff get angry with you in the subway if you try to get on while people are still exiting
12:28:41  <Wolf01> just leave out the pumps part
12:29:45  <V453000> so basically you want side inserters
12:29:51  <V453000> just in 1 entity
12:29:59  <Wolf01> yeah
12:30:05  <V453000> that is never going to happen
12:30:12  <V453000> and I hate that idea tbh
12:30:12  <Wolf01> "want", I would like
12:33:15  <V453000> 1. it totally breaks the "first sight clarity" of the game. If you look at inserter now, you can see what it does, where from and to. 2. it removes parts of the puzzle and moves them to "select by gui" which is just a terrible concept, 3. same bullshit as "place to closest belt line" etc. This thing purely belongs to mods because it is just another "feature" that people can think of, but in fact it actually removes interesting gameplay for o
12:34:11  <peter1138> for o
12:37:05  <V453000> ?
12:37:09  *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:37:16  <Wolf01> I can understand the puzzle game logic to give some challenge on building things, but I don't agree with 1, as you need to use the "info" mode for almost everything, and that shows the pickup and unload points of inserters
12:37:18  <V453000> did it cut the message for you?
12:37:23  *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
12:37:26  <Wolf01> yes
12:37:34  <V453000> it actually removes interesting gameplay for oddly convenient features
12:37:55  <V453000> yes, and as much as the info should be in main view, not just alt mode
12:39:33  <Wolf01> changes like this should have the same weight as when ottd introduced the foundations thing
12:40:47  *** roidal [] has joined #openttd
12:41:03  <V453000> openttd behaves quite a bit differently in this I think, and mainly in openttd it doesn't break any of the first sight effect
12:41:04  *** Islacrusez [] has joined #openttd
12:42:04  <Wolf01> it's just "let the user have more control on what the game automatically does", at least for the pipes part, for inserters is "it's a robot arm, why couldn't it be programmed for a different unload position?"
12:43:00  <Wolf01> but foundations in ottd enabled the user to save lot of space and terraforming
12:43:47  <V453000> well in openttd space matters, in factorio it doesn't
12:45:18  <Wolf01> it does in the inventory
12:45:24  <Wolf01> it isn't infinite
12:45:58  *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has joined #openttd
12:46:13  <Wolf01> I'm fine if it would be possible with a mod too, it doesn't need to be in the core
12:46:24  <Wolf01> so everyone is happy
12:46:42  <V453000> the inserters are
12:46:55  <V453000> the pipes could have a bit more functions yes
12:47:08  <V453000> but pipe control is a mod too
12:49:22  <Wolf01> uhm, this could be a good one:
12:51:16  <Wolf01> it's a bit overdone but I wouldn't simply use the diagonals
12:54:10  <Samu> CluelessPlus is now crashing with "excessive CPU usage in valuator function"?
12:54:25  <Samu> cluelessplus was stable
12:55:34  <Islacrusez> I think some of the restrictions are very much part of the design; means you have to think more carefully about your layout; on the other hand, play your game your way - Factorio has much of the same essence as Minecraft
12:56:11  <Islacrusez> which is amusing, since there's dozens of clones of MC, and the only game to recapture the essence of it is a completely unrelated game
12:56:59  <Eddi|zuHause> there is always a fine line in gamedesign between making an interesting challenge and just throwing bullshit in the way to make things "difficult"
12:57:49  <Samu> I'm getting some AIs crashing with this "excessive CPU usage in valuator function", and they're just starting
12:58:01  <Wolf01> let's take the minecraft example, do you know they added the auto climb 1 block feature only in the last version?
12:58:03  <Samu> like finding a location for HQ :( what changed?
12:58:25  <Wolf01> while the pocket edition had it since... ever
12:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause> they added an auto-climb 1 block?
12:58:52  <Wolf01> and don't tell me the jump button was too out of reach in the pocket edition
12:59:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue about minecraft pocket
13:00:05  <Wolf01> <- A new 'Auto-jump' toggle has been added, which automatically makes the player jump when running towards a one block tall obstacle. Enabled by default, can be disabled in Options.
13:01:55  <Islacrusez> pfft
13:02:02  <Islacrusez> I'd have preferred a dirt halfstep
13:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> dirt/grass slabs would be handy
13:02:34  <Wolf01> that's one of the things people were asking for since the alpha
13:02:45  <Wolf01> just mod it...
13:02:57  <Wolf01> like the player API mod :Q___
13:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> also, if the game could autogenerate with slabs, so you don't have to climb everything
13:03:16  <Islacrusez> modifying terraingen? I have better things to do with my life than end it early
13:03:32  <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, "just mod it" is a terrible answer
13:03:32  <Wolf01> but then the game will be a lot easier, since jumping eats your hunger bar
13:03:34  <andythenorth> hmm
13:03:40  <andythenorth> I hate Road Hog less now
13:03:57  <Wolf01> nice :)
13:04:07  <Islacrusez> hungerbar wasn't part of the original game, so any losses to that aren't a huge deal
13:04:08  <andythenorth> it takes a few clear days to get back into pixel art
13:04:31  <Islacrusez> also balancing your game around dodgy mechanics is a bad idea
13:04:34  <Wolf01> dirt slabs were in the pre-alpha
13:04:57  <andythenorth> V453000: more rosters in my vehicle sets, or more cargo sprites? o_O
13:05:49  <V453000> cargo
13:06:16  <Eddi|zuHause> definitely cargo
13:06:54  <Wolf01> Islacrusez, also I coulnd't understand the snow layers thing, do you know if it was added to the core game or not? I see no difference when it snows :(
13:07:13  <Islacrusez> snow layers thing?
13:07:19  <Samu> there is a problem with this fix -Fix [FS#6473]: [Script] Kill scripts, when a non-suspendable valuator call takes way too long.
13:07:30  <Samu> AIs that never used to crash now start on starting
13:07:34  <Samu> :(
13:07:46  <Islacrusez> most recently I've only played TFC, which runs on 1.7.2; snow does build up but I don't know if it's one of TFC's additions or if it's from vanilla
13:08:03  <Wolf01> oh, it's only in pocket edition
13:08:05  <Samu> now crash* on starting
13:08:10  <Wolf01>
13:09:24  <Wolf01> but they say it's possible to create thicker snow layers in pc edition
13:09:33  <peter1138> It is.
13:10:21  <Samu> NoCAB which is usually a CPU hog, doesn't crash
13:10:26  <Samu> something's wrong
13:10:54  <Wolf01> it seem the pc edition needs to keep up with the pocket edition now, 0.12 brought on pocket almost everything
13:12:16  *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@] has joined #openttd
13:13:46  <Islacrusez> can we blame M$?
13:13:56  <Wolf01> I don't think so
13:14:19  <Wolf01> they started the pocket edition before M$
13:14:20  <Eddi|zuHause> can always blame M$
13:14:44  <Wolf01> maybe we could blame M$ if they let pc version die
13:14:53  <Samu> anyone? have you tried NoCAB with that -Fix [FS#6473]?
13:15:01  <Samu> it's unplayable
13:15:37  <Samu> stalls all the time
13:15:50  <Wolf01> meh, now I don't know if I should replace all the inserters I have with the mod ones... I don't have enough space in the inventory, too many blueprints
13:17:14  <Samu> gonna try release x64
13:17:27  <Samu> that fix broke something
13:17:34  <Samu> at least in debug x64
13:17:37  <Wolf01> mmh the fast inserters are way too fast, unbalanced :|
13:17:50  <Wolf01> *the mod's fast inserters
13:19:28  *** Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
13:19:46  <Islacrusez> the only thing I'd probably ever mod about inserters is to return them to current-version functionality after the next update goes live
13:19:47  <Alkel_U3> well, lately I got used to Homeworld's doubly fast fast inserters - I still feel a little guilty about that :-)
13:20:27  <Wolf01> 90° should be able to take 2 items in the same time of the straigt one, but it seem it takes 4 items
13:20:42  <Wolf01> *straight
13:20:42  <Islacrusez> Alkel_U3, what's wrong with just using two fast inserters?
13:21:23  <Alkel_U3> Islacrusez: most of the times nothing, it's just that I play with Homeworld :-)
13:21:31  <Islacrusez> scrub :P
13:22:35  <Wolf01> ha! z-index bug
13:22:44  <Alkel_U3> I'll definitely lay off most of the mods for the first .13 game to get the raw experience
13:23:07  <Islacrusez> my current playthrough I'm trying to play environmentalist; so everything that will take mods is running on -80% power consumption, factory is entirely solar, and I cut down as few trees as possible
13:24:17  *** aard [] has joined #openttd
13:24:22  <Wolf01> underground pipe is drawn over the underground belt:
13:24:25  <V453000> in my book environmentalist is the wrong approach :P
13:24:31  <Alkel_U3> except for the trees, that's my usual approach, too
13:24:48  <V453000> yeah, having a 0.13 vanilla game sounds good
13:25:00  <Islacrusez> it makes for an interesting experience, since space is at more of a premium, and you're far more likely to need to think about layout of belts, assemblers and inserters; if that means three fast inserters for one material, you're going to need to get your other materials from the opposite side
13:26:00  <Wolf01> V, when will you make moving shadows? The "sun" looks like a fading light bulb with static shadows :P
13:26:15  <Islacrusez> I've also increased the density and size of material deposits (increasing oil to max) because the default values (for oil in particular) make train lines too nomadic for my tastes
13:26:16  <V453000> XD probably never
13:26:23  <V453000> but yeah interesting suggestion
13:26:34  <V453000> if we had separate atlas for shadow which would be highly compressed, might work
13:26:35  <Wolf01> even shadows at night...
13:26:36  <Islacrusez> oil fields run out so fast on default, it's stoopid
13:26:38  <V453000> as it wouldn't be too much
13:26:59  <Alkel_U3> however, I have the resources spread apart very long distances, so I distribute light oil to the mining stations to power them with the oil steam boiler from ks_power - feels fun :-)
13:27:18  <V453000> but in general the shadows are probably best being in the way they are to give the best plastic feeling
13:27:21  <Wolf01> Islacrusez, just generate a map with high density oil fields (and stone fields too)
13:27:42  <Samu> oh well, forgive me
13:27:59  <Islacrusez> I generated a more appropriate map for this one; I bumped the density, size and rarity up by one, and up to max for oil
13:28:05  <Samu> only seems to make debug slow
13:28:11  <Samu> release isn't as slow
13:28:19  <V453000> btw the new map gen seems to be awesome :P just saying
13:28:36  <Alkel_U3> hype.
13:28:43  <Wolf01> hype
13:29:36  <Islacrusez> means that a train line can actually stay in use for a while, and especially becomes viable for oil; means I don't have to sit around trying to pump oil at 0.1/s and then cover it with speed boosters *rolls eyes*
13:30:05  <Wolf01> so V, you are telling me you can't understand how that inserter works?
13:30:28  <V453000> it's hacky
13:31:05  <Islacrusez> waaaaaaait a minute; inserters access three points, not just two
13:31:08  <Islacrusez> that's sneaky
13:31:32  <Wolf01> no, it can even load and unload from the same point
13:31:54  <Islacrusez> how'd you manage that?
13:31:56  <Wolf01> useless as a petrock but it can
13:32:03  <Wolf01>
13:32:19  <Islacrusez> ah, moddy-mod-modness
13:32:33  <peter1138> Is that a man standing there?
13:32:35  <Islacrusez> thought that was some creative use of vanilla
13:32:36  <Wolf01> oh, no, it can't
13:32:44  <Wolf01> the gui prevents saving that configuration
13:33:16  <Wolf01> it would have been cool to mark the checkbox to show it
13:34:25  <V453000> peter1138: that's the player
13:34:56  <Islacrusez> is there a mod for a lane-splitter? would be nice to have that in vanilla; like a 1x1 T-config belt section, which splits the lanes into opposite directions
13:35:15  <Wolf01> there was one for 0.11
13:35:28  <V453000> so like the same as splitter but 1x1? sounds dumb
13:35:40  <V453000> ah lane splitting
13:35:46  <V453000> I get your point
13:36:04  <V453000> "meh", I grown to like the underground belt splitting too much
13:36:20  <Islacrusez> eh, feels too much like a workaround
13:36:25  <V453000> and since mixed belts are generally better, it is nice to require the extra puzzle for them
13:36:30  <Islacrusez> also looks ugly as sin
13:36:46  <V453000> matter of taste
13:36:59  <Islacrusez> also takes up a lot of room if you need both the lanes to continue
13:37:11  <Islacrusez> smart inserters will do it, but that's a bit clunky
13:37:18  <V453000> but exactly
13:37:21  <V453000> you have multiple options
13:37:23  <Wolf01> <-
13:37:41  <V453000> one of mall and weaker, one is bigger and perfect, both reach a rather powerful thing
13:37:56  <Wolf01> but as soon as something little change in the belts handling, you are sure this won't work anymore
13:37:58  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:37:59  <V453000> if you have a lane splitter, suddenly there is just 1 uninteresting option
13:38:38  <Wolf01> you can put a lane splitter as a research for mid-late game
13:38:59  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, is that an item sorter for a mixed belt?
13:39:01  <V453000> mod :)
13:39:18  <Islacrusez> V453000, shouldn't have to mod something in if it should already be in the game :P
13:39:19  <Wolf01> yeah
13:39:34  <V453000> that is the thing, it shouldn't
13:39:35  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, I believe they're patching that out by changing the splitter mechanics
13:39:38  <Wolf01> eh, V, lane splitter is not possible anymore even with mods
13:39:41  <V453000> it is another convenience feature which removes complexity
13:40:01  <V453000> that it isn't possible with mods doesn't mean it is a good idea to put it in the main game
13:40:27  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, they *did* appreciate the creativity in designing it though, which was cool
13:40:28  *** MonkeyDrone [~Monkey@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:40:51  <V453000> I generally view one huge difference between openttd and factorio - openttd has very few pieces (like 10?) with which you construct the whole train game. Factorio has like hundred of pieces with which you construct the whole factory.
13:40:52  <Islacrusez> V453000, it doesn't add complexity though
13:40:52  <Wolf01> once you understand the concept it's easy, but it's a delicate contraption
13:41:10  <V453000> having less features output variety of constructions is a good thing
13:41:33  <Islacrusez> V453000, having all the tools available is important too
13:41:49  <V453000> it's a puzzle, having everything isn't always the best
13:41:57  <Islacrusez> V453000, wanna go back to pre- pre-signals? pre- PBS?
13:42:01  <V453000> it is similar shit to "signals in tunnels"in openttd
13:42:15  <V453000> that is completely different Islacrusez
13:42:16  <Wolf01> ehm, V... you have inserter, belt (with underground), pipe (with underground), factory, rail, all other things are just different shapes of the same things
13:42:25  <V453000> presignals and PBS add stuff that other things can't do at all
13:42:40  <V453000> each of them has a distinct use in various situations
13:42:48  <Islacrusez> V453000, it's exactly the same
13:43:11  <V453000> lane splitting is already possible, you would just add a cheat tile which does it in 1 square
13:43:14  <Islacrusez> V453000, if you can't use a lane splitter, you just bring in a different belt; same as if you can't make a junction you just bring in a different line
13:43:24  <Wolf01> 2 squares
13:43:29  <Islacrusez> 3
13:43:34  <V453000> still
13:43:41  <Islacrusez> technically 4, but you get the idea
13:43:48  <V453000> the smallest versions of the current one can take like 5 tiles I believe
13:43:52  <V453000> which is kind of fine as well? : P
13:44:02  <Islacrusez> you need an input, two outputs, and the tile itself
13:44:18  <Wolf01>
13:44:49  <Islacrusez> what about depot scheduling, replacing the old forced-depot-signaling workaround?
13:45:09  <Islacrusez> you could already force a train to go to a depot, why was it added as a go-to option?
13:45:22  *** aard [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:45:44  <V453000> that I classify as utility tasks, not actual gameplay
13:46:59  <Wolf01> it was gameplay when it wasn't automatized
13:47:10  <V453000> depotting trains is pure bullshit
13:47:13  <V453000> that's just slave labour
13:47:25  <Wolf01> that's why they removed it from locomotion
13:47:26  <V453000> and scheduled depotting allows refit and other shit
13:49:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yaay... youtube broke the subscription list... no matter how often i click on "list mode", it stays in "grid mode"
13:49:46  <Islacrusez> so you're telling me that because you're proud of some hacky little contraption that doesn't even make sense, I should be forced to either do the same or bring in another conveyor line, which is a utility task
13:49:47  <Wolf01> isn't the underground belt lane blocking abuse a total bullshit too? I would like to have a decent dedicated feature instead of abusing on a misterious feature of the game
13:50:01  <Islacrusez> ^
13:51:07  <Wolf01> I could even stay there all the day grabbing the materials from a mixed belt with "F" and move them manually on the right crates
13:51:19  <V453000> if the graphics were hinting the functionality more, would you be fine with it?
13:51:32  <V453000> adding a new entity for no new functionality is not great
13:52:06  <Islacrusez> adding something which creates a functionality that previously had to be obtained by exploits IS
13:52:07  <Wolf01> the underground belt entrances is a misuse and even hard to achieve sometimes
13:52:28  <V453000> should everything be easy to achieve?
13:52:36  <V453000> use bots anywhere if you want easy to achieve?
13:52:39  <Wolf01> because the game tries to make a working underground belt with entrance and exit
13:53:06  <Wolf01> as it's done now it's like building only a bridgehead in ottd
13:53:25  <Islacrusez> <Eddi|zuHause> there is always a fine line in gamedesign between making an interesting challenge and just throwing bullshit in the way to make things "difficult"
13:53:38  <Wolf01> I would add a splitter entity and make the exit of the underground belt mandatory once you placed the entrance
13:54:21  <Wolf01> I can't see any reason for having only an entrance or only an exit besides the abuse of the lane blocking
13:54:46  <Islacrusez> Factorio is very clear on where it expect the challenge to be, and makes all other parts of the experience as easy as possible
13:55:01  <V453000> you can line block AND use it as underground belt to move shit somewhere?
13:55:29  <Islacrusez> now you're just stretching
13:55:32  <Wolf01> line block is a bad feature imho.
13:55:47  <Wolf01> it should block bot the lines
13:56:04  <V453000> you can block both the lines with circuit networks now, yes
13:56:15  <Wolf01> the graphics shows it block the entire perpendicular belt
13:56:18  <Islacrusez> V453000, being deliberately dense?
13:57:11  <V453000> the graphics are kind of on the edge, it barely makes sense but works
13:57:18  <V453000> dense?
13:57:48  <Wolf01> now show me how I'm supposed to even think this contraption will work
13:58:22  <V453000> that's why I asked if you would accept the feature if the visual explanation was better
13:58:58  *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has left #openttd [Connection reset by peer]
13:59:22  <Wolf01> no, because it will stay as "entrance", and entrance means entrance, it's like you have a double door on a building with one door closed and state that the door is "one way"
13:59:36  <Wolf01> because it blocks the other "lane"
14:00:01  <Islacrusez> is changing the game's graphics to justify your exploit even remotely good game design?
14:00:27  <V453000> game design wise I still do think it is a nice touch
14:01:14  <Wolf01> but in 0.14 will change and it merges both lanes instead of blocking one, what will you do? change the graphics again?
14:01:43  <V453000> yeah, except it won't?
14:01:57  <V453000> all entitiy graphics are made with their functionality in mind
14:02:09  <Islacrusez> <V453000> all entitiy graphics are made with their functionality in mind
14:02:15  <Islacrusez> quote of the fucking day right there
14:02:31  <Wolf01> this one obviously is a misuse because the graphics is well fitted for an "entrance"
14:02:49  <V453000> I won't say it's perfect. :)
14:03:01  <Wolf01> so it should be fixed with "block both lanes"
14:03:06  <Islacrusez> V453000,  explain this shit right here if your previous comment is supposed to be true?
14:03:20  <Islacrusez> if the graphics were made with the intended use in mind, HOW IS YOUR USE INTENDED?
14:04:30  <Wolf01> to me it looks like those multiple tile span graphics for stations in ottd, I'm not able to build a station like the designer of the grf intended
14:05:01  <Wolf01> also it glitches like hell
14:05:11  <V453000> ok : )
14:05:14  <Wolf01> or at least it did at that time I tried it
14:05:34  <V453000> but yes, I am not saying the visual solution of the UG belt trick is perfect
14:06:08  <V453000> what I meant to say was that in general, changing functionality can easily cause change of graphics, obviously
14:06:59  <Wolf01> yes, agreed, but we are talking about an abuse of functionality
14:07:29  <V453000> yes, and whether it is actually abuse is questionnable
14:07:29  <Wolf01> I think that only works because inserters should be able to pickup from the entrances/exits too
14:07:48  <Wolf01> which is nonsense too because it has a fucking roof
14:08:18  <V453000> yeah since picking stuff up from a closed chest makes more sense :P
14:08:26  <V453000> but yeah perhaps it should havea smaller roof
14:09:17  <Wolf01> if you can make the roof half tile long I could even agree with you
14:09:33  <V453000> that is what I was asking about twice now
14:09:41  <V453000> just change visual solution
14:09:51  <Wolf01> but it's still an entrance and not a lane block or a splitter
14:10:16  <Wolf01> it's like using an inserter as a biter beater
14:10:30  <Wolf01> why not? inserters move an might hurt you
14:10:50  <V453000> no, logistics and biters are completely different region
14:11:12  <Wolf01> also trains and a corpse when you are on their path
14:11:36  <V453000> it is just giving extra things to the belt puzzle. Not intutitive probably, probably also not visually perfect, but functionally fine.
14:11:53  <NGC3982> In the latest version, was there any changes on how the dedicated server works?
14:12:18  <NGC3982> For some reason, i notice that it doesn't use that much resources any more.
14:12:20  <NGC3982> It's really nice.
14:12:31  <Wolf01> even the laser bits which follow the biters... I was taught that light moves in straight line... or biters have a lot of mass?
14:13:12  <V453000> now you are just picking at random flaws of the game, we can do that for the whole day probably, and yes, it is one of the things which will likely end up on 0.14 roadmap
14:14:39  <Wolf01> but I'm fine with those, it's like on starcraft, you shot and you hit, what I'm not fine with is the abuse of a hidden feature
14:14:55  <Wolf01> see it like an undocumented API
14:15:09  <Wolf01> it's not documented so it may change at will
14:15:22  <V453000> isn't it in the player guide? :P
14:16:22  <Wolf01> even worse :D a misuse in the player guide
14:16:40  <Islacrusez> pretty sure it's not in the ingame tips; if it was intended, it'd be in there
14:16:54  <V453000> if it wasn
14:17:01  <Wolf01> don't give him suggestions XD
14:17:02  <V453000> if it wasnt intended, it wouldnt be coded that way
14:17:25  <V453000> and yes the tutorials and guides are highly work in progress
14:18:10  <V453000> I wouldn't be surprised if the belt trick is utilized somewhere in a pre-built factory in some mission as a thing to discover
14:20:05  <Wolf01> I still think it is working like that because of some weird mechanics they needed to tweak, but if you add a better and fitting graphics and with a proper tutorial and maybe with the ability to override the exit building (since you can't rotate the exit because automatically aligns), I might really change my mind
14:21:01  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
14:21:10  <V453000> override exit building?
14:21:32  <Wolf01> try buiding 2 entrances on straight line with the same belt
14:21:47  <Wolf01> not 1 entrance and 1 exit, just 2 entrances
14:23:33  <Wolf01> mmh, no, not this case, it was another edge case I found with the entrances
14:23:46  <V453000> ah that you mean
14:23:49  <V453000> that they connect
14:23:49  <Wolf01> there is an impossible configuration to build
14:24:06  <V453000> basically you can't have 2 entrances going in opposite directions
14:24:57  <Wolf01> yes that
14:26:08  <V453000> that's probably the only functional downside of the dual-feature use I can see, yes
14:26:20  <V453000> but I would again just throw it to the bag "part of the puzzle" :P
14:26:52  <Wolf01> and I still think exits should be mandatory, having orphaned bits of entrances/exits for both pipes and belts don't add anything to the complexity, for belt it's only useful for the lane blocking
14:27:36  <Wolf01> and if I lose a pipe exit in the middle of a forest, I'll disassemble the forest to get rid of it
14:27:44  <Islacrusez> you could use that same argument to say that pre-signals aren't necessary... the limits of regular signals are "part of the puzzle"
14:27:54  *** tvel [~tvel@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:27:57  <Wolf01> I send the swarm of construction robots to do the trick
14:28:18  <Islacrusez> the worst one is ending up with an odd number of pipe to grounds afteer building a petrochemical complex
14:28:23  <V453000> no because presignals add a TON of new functions, adding a new lane blocker which does the same (plus ability to save 1 tile), does not add any new functionality at all
14:28:39  <Islacrusez> V453000, tough shit; it's "part of the puzzle"
14:28:43  <V453000> Wolf01: you can build them like power poles now when you drag them
14:28:54  <Islacrusez> see how bad of an argument that is?
14:29:07  <V453000> no Islacrusez, presignals add things which are simply absolutely impossible with block signals
14:29:20  <Islacrusez> V453000, doesn't matter; part of the puzzle
14:29:34  <Wolf01> pre-signals were added to get rid of a bad problem
14:29:35  <V453000> that makes no sense
14:29:41  <Wolf01> (junction blocking)
14:30:29  <Islacrusez> V453000, doesn't need to
14:30:36  <Islacrusez> it's an awful handwave, don't use it
14:30:43  <Wolf01> here we are arguing about using the wrong entity to avoid adding a dedicated entity to do the same work
14:31:05  <Islacrusez> at this point I'm just attacking his argument, because his argument is bad and he should feel bad
14:31:35  <Wolf01> the same could be "why there are waypoints in ottd? just use stations with the right order"
14:31:43  <V453000> yeah I should feel bad
14:32:12  <V453000> all I can say is go fuck yourself at this point honestly. I love the game, I love working on it, and I am not saying everything is perfect. But I demand reasonable discussion.
14:32:25  <Islacrusez> you're welcome to discuss the merits of one vs the other; "part of the puzzle" is *not* one of them
14:32:43  <V453000> I am welcome? Do I get your permission to discuss something? Thank you good lord
14:33:08  <Islacrusez> you know exactly what I mean
14:33:12  <peter1138> Why should anyone feel bad? That's shitty.
14:34:00  <V453000> because someone hates your hidden/hacky/tricky feature peter1138 :) obviously
14:34:13  <V453000> every game developer would have deep depressions every day if that was to apply
14:34:18  <V453000> there is always someone who will dislike something
14:34:23  <peter1138> Speaking of which, I have that rainbow colours patch somewhere...
14:34:31  <V453000> =D
14:34:40  <Islacrusez> peter1138, because bad logic is bad
14:34:42  <peter1138> V453000, look at what happened to Notch... sad :S
14:34:57  <V453000> I don't follow Notch too much but I guess he is kind of lost atm
14:35:08  <V453000> not knowing what to do, not being entertained either
14:35:13  <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly "happened"?
14:35:57  <Samu> just finished reworking the way slots can be edited
14:36:12  <Samu> no more accidental removal of dead AI companies
14:36:34  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: one thing in factorio has basically 2 uses, one of the uses isn't very intuitive. 2 people demand this entity to be split into two so it doesn't add new functions, just splits it to be more intuitive. And because I dare to defend the method of two-in-one, I should feel bad because yes.
14:36:35  <Samu> unless the user really clicks Stop AI
14:36:51  <Samu> that will actually remove it, and it's not accidental
14:36:57  <Samu> it's what the user wants
14:37:30  <Eddi|zuHause> well, my uninformed intuition tells me to be on the "split it" side
14:38:22  <V453000> perhaps yes but whichever opinion you have, it doesn't make you a terrible person
14:38:49  <Wolf01> no V, you shouldn't feel bad, because I see your reasons, you should feel bad because you said "1. it totally breaks the "first sight clarity" of the game. If you look at inserter now, you can see what it does, where from and to." and then you tried to defend a misfeature which does exactly the opposite
14:39:27  <V453000> that is clear differences as well
14:39:33  <Wolf01> this is what I call "you are confused"
14:39:52  <peter1138> Feeling bad sucks.
14:40:02  <Wolf01> maybe with a better graphics it could have sense, but I'm not convinced
14:40:09  <V453000> if inserter can work in various ways, you need gui assistance to "understand what will it do". with the belt, once you learn how the thing works, it is consistently going to do that, without any extra gui exlpanation
14:40:40  <V453000> so if you want to tell me to feel bad for defending a (perhaps questionnable and debatable) argument, again, sexual intercourse with self suggestion? :P
14:40:43  <V453000> feeling bad is nope
14:40:58  <Wolf01> no, you just need the alt (info) mode even to know how an inserter works, there are the arrows for that too
14:41:11  <V453000> exactly, which is shit
14:41:23  <V453000> you could play dwarf fortress instead
14:41:32  <Wolf01> also with a splitter you have a visual representation of what it does
14:41:40  <Islacrusez> V453000, the reason I'm telling you to feel bad about your argument is because it is very closely related to "because I said so"
14:41:42  <Wolf01> an UB entrance is not a splitter
14:42:02  <peter1138> What is dus...
14:42:25  <V453000> peter1138: the thing which about every programmer of factorio plays at the office you mean? :D
14:43:06  <V453000> Islacrusez: I gave clear argument to every of my points, or at least attempted to explain my throught process. Because I said so doesn't apply.
14:43:58  <peter1138> heh
14:44:00  <Wolf01> and I just explained your argument does not make sense, you have valid reasons but they go in different ways
14:44:37  <Islacrusez> "it's part of the puzzle"  argument is literally "this thing adds a step to completing a task, I say this is how it should be"
14:44:40  <Wolf01> because if you state that something needs a clear way to tell what it is, then it should apply to everything, and not only at what you don't like
14:44:41  <V453000> it does make sense, it just doesn't prioritize the things you are trying to achieve
14:45:27  <V453000> Wolf01: one thing is intuitiveness at the first sight, and readability after learning the "symbols"
14:45:57  <V453000> side inserters are not visible in either, belt trick only at the first sight case
14:46:05  <Wolf01> UB entrance as splitter is conter intuitive at his top
14:46:16  <Wolf01> its*
14:46:28  <V453000> I never said it is intuitive
14:46:47  <V453000> I just don't view that as a problem
14:46:53  <Wolf01> I spent an entire afternoon to learn how to make that mixed belt splitter
14:46:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you literally said "intuitive" 3 lines above
14:47:36  <V453000> Wolf01: does that mean you had fun playing the game?
14:47:56  *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
14:47:57  <Wolf01> no, I was frustrated, and I put it in blueprints to not think to it again
14:48:01  <V453000> XD
14:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: "playing the game" and "having fun" are two completely separate things
14:48:13  <V453000> it's not like you HAVE to use mixed belts
14:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause> loads of games are played that are not fun (anymore)
14:48:33  <V453000> many people even created a religion where they hate mixed belts to all hell
14:48:42  <Islacrusez> Eddi|zuHause, a good game is one where playing it and having fun are the same; like factorio
14:48:45  <Wolf01> it's like "you don't have to put a coal patch in the middle of a iron ore field"
14:48:59  <V453000> why would you play a game if you don't have fun doing it ._. did our culture get that far?
14:49:15  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: there are psychological factors at play here
14:49:22  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: look up "skinner box"
14:49:33  <Islacrusez> V453000, most MMOs
14:49:47  <Islacrusez> also most facebook games
14:49:57  <Wolf01> so, do you know what to do now? take your 3d graphics software thing and let make it intuitive :)
14:50:49  <Samu> Reload AI functionality is now only part of AI Debug window
14:50:55  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: , Islacrusez , still feels like that's a horribly broken thing to do if you aren't having fun wasting your time? XD
14:51:16  <Wolf01> not broken, but weird mechanics I won't rely on too much
14:51:22  <V453000> Wolf01: it probably isn't so simple, nothing in factorio graphics is simple. But I can have a look at it someday. now, wagons :P
14:51:29  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that's the problem, sometimes the brain does broken things
14:51:58  *** Klanticus [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:51:58  <V453000> well then why care about the game being broken if people play it anyway? :P point? :D
14:52:19  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that's why there are so many terrible games out there :p
14:52:47  <V453000> XD
14:53:11  <Wolf01> that's why people fix games by themselves with grfs ;)
14:53:28  <Wolf01> or mods
14:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> where "terrible" does not mean "badly programmed", but "exploitive mechanics"
14:54:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it's also how casinos work, btw.
14:54:14  <Wolf01> <- even if they reach this point
14:54:23  <V453000> yeah Wolf01 , on which they spend hundreds of hours to the point where they don't enjoy playing the game anymore XD admittedly factorio mods are much easier to make so this problem isn't that bad
14:54:53  <Eddi|zuHause> be flashy to get as many people in as possible, and keep them in there for as much money to squeeze out as possible
14:55:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there is (almost) no redeeming value for the people going in there
14:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> because the whole system is designed to keep them in there beyond the point where they have fun
14:55:47  <V453000> well there is always the last resort of selling it with boob advertisements :P
14:55:53  <V453000> $$$$$
14:56:49  <Wolf01> oh god... I need to make a video of this
14:57:10  <Wolf01> inserters fighting for a crate
14:58:11  <V453000> ps, my 3d grahpics software just decided not to render shit XD
14:58:21  <V453000> just no, you get 1 frame and that's enough :D
14:58:33  <V453000> Blender. Issues you never thought could happen.
14:58:41  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
14:58:44  *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
14:58:49  <Wolf01> <- this is pure awesomeness
14:58:52  <Alberth> hihi
14:58:56  <Wolf01> o/
14:59:12  <Wolf01> I think I'll let them there for the rest of the game
14:59:25  <Samu> my next goal is to allow reset to reset resetable ai parameters, instead of just disabling the reset button alltogether
14:59:26  <V453000> I thought one of them should be the first?
14:59:28  <Alberth> turtles? :)
14:59:30  <V453000> what are they doing Wolf01 ?
14:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: i'm sure if you go to the blender people they tell you it's all intuitive and changing it "breaks the puzzle"
14:59:44  <Wolf01> moving the crate back and forth
14:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: and if you're not having fun, why use blender in the first place?
14:59:59  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: no, they would probably agree with me that it is an issue, and not do anything about it :P
15:00:13  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: because it is productive? your argumetns don't work very well here :P
15:00:46  <Wolf01> *cough* even a splitter is productive *cough* /me chokes
15:00:47  <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO, if you're not making a physical thing, it's not "productive"
15:01:15  <V453000> that's actually fairly offensive thing to say to a 3D artist Eddi|zuHause
15:01:23  <V453000> or a programmer
15:01:27  <V453000> or yeah
15:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but also banker, manager, ...
15:01:56  <Wolf01> mmmh, how do you record a video without fraps or gamecam?
15:01:59  <V453000> so, nobody is productive?
15:02:17  <Wolf01> PSR here we go
15:02:18  <V453000> idk I used bandicam at some point, I know someone used nvidia capture thing
15:02:41  <Samu> i use bandicam
15:02:52  <Samu> but openttd cant run in fullscreen mode
15:02:53  <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO, jobs separate into 3 categories: "productive", "creative" and "bullshit"
15:03:22  <Alberth> you chatting here is not productive, so chat software is bullshit :p
15:03:32  <Eddi|zuHause> as a graphics designer, you're easily in the "creative" part
15:03:39  <V453000> I can see art being creative at the first stage when you design/sketch things, but the rest is pretty much just productive
15:03:57  <peter1138> openttd can run in fullscreen mode
15:03:57  <Alberth> non-artists see that different
15:04:04  <Wolf01> meh... recorded a double screen video...
15:04:14  <Eddi|zuHause> this channel is also mildly in the "creative" part
15:04:29  <V453000> this channel is fully bullshit part atm :P
15:04:43  <Eddi|zuHause> hence "mildly" :p
15:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a weak argument that "manager" is in the "productive" category, if it enables more people to be "productive", but a lot of times it's leaning towards "bullshit"
15:05:48  *** keoz [] has joined #openttd
15:06:04  <Eddi|zuHause> investment banking is almost completely "bullshit"
15:06:38  <Wolf01> meh the windows games recording tool can't "see" factorio
15:06:40  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, I love how the human npc seems to be giving the pair a strange look
15:06:58  <V453000> regardless, 3D art is hard work where you just construct something. In a computer, virtually? Yes.
15:07:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i did not say that "creative" is not "hard work"
15:07:57  <Eddi|zuHause> also "bullshit" can be "hard work"
15:08:07  <Wolf01> the screenhot works, why not the recording?
15:08:49  <Alberth> how physical is a thing if you need non-physical things to realize it?
15:09:11  <V453000> so, 3d printing_
15:09:13  <V453000> ?
15:09:25  <Eddi|zuHause> 3d printing is "productive"
15:09:29  <peter1138> Does Factorio use a 3D engine?
15:09:31  <V453000> computers are physical, data is physical
15:09:36  <Eddi|zuHause> normal printing is also "productive"
15:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> putting something on a screen is "creative"
15:10:00  <peter1138> In my experience those "game recording" tools hook into the 3D rendering stuff.
15:10:10  <Islacrusez> if data is physical, why is putting it on screen not productive?
15:10:13  *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:b6d2:ac81:a64b:2673:997] has joined #openttd
15:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause> data is not physical.
15:10:41  <Islacrusez> apparently it depends on who you ask
15:10:44  <Islacrusez> >.>
15:10:45  <Eddi|zuHause> positioning and hooking up a screen is "productive"
15:10:45  <Islacrusez> <.<
15:10:46  <Wolf01> windows has that thing which popups every time I play (the game toolbar) but with factorio doesn't seem to work
15:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause> showing images on a screen is "creative"
15:11:30  <Eddi|zuHause> btw, printing something so another person can scan it is "bullshit"
15:12:24  <V453000> so painting on canvas is productive while making renders not_ same with statue-model_
15:12:27  <Alberth> always add a disclaimer to stuff you print "do not scan this"
15:12:30  <V453000> ?
15:12:38  <V453000> XD
15:12:59  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: yes.
15:13:02  *** rahtgaz [] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach]
15:13:24  <V453000> I dont get that eddi, the process is almost identical
15:13:31  <Islacrusez> hey here's a thought; if a lane splitter is simply a single tile with two belts in opposite directions and is treated exactly as such, it could be used to invert two mixed belts into two opposite mixed belts
15:13:33  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has joined #openttd
15:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: that's not the point, the point is the end product.
15:13:44  <Islacrusez> how huge would your mechanism be to match that, V453000?
15:14:21  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: coming up with what to draw on the canvas may be "creative", but the act of physically swinging the hand to put colour on is "productive"
15:14:23  <V453000> Islacrusez: how is that related?
15:14:44  <V453000> same as in computer eddi, precisely
15:15:01  <Islacrusez> I can make it related if you really want, but I'm simply asking a question
15:15:05  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
15:15:21  <Islacrusez> wee can launch back into the argument if you *really* want, but I have no intention to do so
15:15:24  <V453000> big is answer, as you are aware
15:15:49  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: part of the point is that "productive" tasks require raw materials, where "creative" tasks do not
15:16:19  <V453000> weird logic
15:16:22  <Samu> who worked on the last trunk change? frosh?
15:16:49  <Islacrusez> I'm not sure throwing paint at a canvas and calling it art is "productive"... then again I'd hesitate to call it "creative"...
15:17:00  <Islacrusez> can we say BS is a subset of both of those?
15:17:24  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the other part of the point is that the result of "creative" tasks can easily be multiplied (because more copies of it don't require more material), where "productive" cannot
15:18:06  <Samu> CluelessPlus is crashing with "excessive CPU usage in valuator function" with the recent trunk fix :(
15:18:34  <Samu> it builds the first route, then tried to build an HQ, and crashes with this error
15:18:59  <Samu> cluelessplus was one of the most stable AI I've ever tested
15:19:03  <Samu> and now this :(
15:19:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Islacrusez: a job is "bullshit" if the only result is that it creates more work for other people without making those people either more "creative" or more "productive"
15:21:15  <Islacrusez> Eddi|zuHause, what about "productive" tasks that serve only to appease one of the pure BS employees?
15:21:28  <Islacrusez> personally I'd extend the BS class to them
15:21:45  *** pereba_ [AdiIRC@] has joined #openttd
15:21:51  <Samu> I see this chat is quite busy now
15:22:29  <Alberth> Samu: what do you expect us to do or say?
15:22:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, "bullshit" has a viral property
15:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause> if a "productive" or "creative" task is infected by a "bullshit" task, it becomes "bullshit" as well
15:23:26  <Alberth> we all die with as much money as we are born, thus all money-related things are BS ?
15:23:45  <Wolf01> Islacrusez, I'm fine with lane separators being 2 tiles like the core splitters, I don't really need to spare one tile, I just don't rely on the underground belt contraption as separator, as it even inverts the output
15:24:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: not necessary "all", because you CAN build up an inheritance for your offspring.
15:24:21  <Samu> I don't know really, but... the fix may raise the number of AIs crashing
15:24:46  <Samu> if something as simple as building an HQ triggers it to stop :(
15:24:57  <V453000> Islacrusez: 5x4 for a lane swapper it seems
15:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but yes, money has a large "bullshit" element to it
15:25:40  <Samu> map wasn't even large, it was a 64x64 map
15:25:57  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, logically there's no logical reason for a lane separator to be more than one tile; its entire functionality is the equivalent of two belts facing opposite directions, except instead of two incoming belts you have to lanes of one belt
15:25:58  <Eddi|zuHause> after all, money was invented to pay for armies (which are "bullshit")
15:26:44  * andythenorth draws trucks
15:26:47  <Islacrusez> V453000, not nearly as large as I imagined, but still a significant area for something that, logically at least, could occur on a single tile
15:26:58  <V453000> anythin can occur
15:26:58  <Alberth> hi hi andy
15:27:12  <Wolf01> Islacrusez, I'm talking of the bottom right one
15:27:29  <Wolf01> how do you do that with 1 belt?
15:27:45  <V453000> now I fit it into 3x3, 8 tiles
15:28:42  <V453000>
15:28:44  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, [<>] (single tile); imagine a belt tile, but half the belt goes one way and half the belt goes the opposite direction, heading outward
15:28:51  <V453000> wait no that doesn't swap it XD
15:28:52  <V453000> nvm
15:28:59  *** pereba [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:b6d2:ac81:a64b:2673:997] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:29:02  <V453000> how to overengineer XD
15:29:04  *** pereba_ is now known as pereba
15:29:18  <Wolf01> V, please... the train cars XD
15:29:32  <V453000> no :) patience
15:29:49  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, using the rules of how belts interact, the result is a lane splitter with one incoming belt, or a lane swapper with two belts from opposite direction
15:30:07  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, more importantly, it follows all known rules of belts
15:30:11  <Wolf01> Islacrusez, ok, I figured it out now
15:31:11  <andythenorth> ‘draws’ :P
15:31:11  * andythenorth copies and pastes trucks :P
15:31:11  <andythenorth> V453000: what’s your favourite photoshop tool? :P
15:31:13  <V453000> fixed
15:31:39  <V453000> andythenorth: depends :) for general work, place linked because other programs don't seem to have it
15:31:56  <V453000> what I use most, brush? :D
15:32:07  <Islacrusez> you may have misunderstood what I was asking; try four items on two belts from opposite direction; swap the pairs onto two outgoing belts
15:32:35  <V453000> part of the puzzle Islacrusez :)
15:32:43  <Islacrusez> I have no idea why this might be done, presumably for some sort of 2nd or 3rd stage manufacturing step fed from a primary bus
15:32:48  <V453000> so that MOAR isn't just adding shit, but adding problems
15:32:51  <Wolf01> V, just invert the 2 tunnels
15:33:31  <V453000> Wolf01: there are definitely many approaches to it
15:33:38  <Wolf01>
15:33:42  <Islacrusez> V453000, I'm not disputing that at this point; I just want to know how big the mechanism would be to actually do it with your method
15:33:55  <V453000> nice
15:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: so the tunnel entrances are just there to stop half of the belt?
15:34:05  <V453000> yeah Eddi|zuHause
15:34:06  <Wolf01> yes eddi
15:34:16  <V453000> ridiculous, isn't it :P
15:34:21  <Wolf01> yes
15:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. that is terrible...
15:34:59  <Wolf01> but it works...
15:35:25  <Wolf01> and it isn't even so hard to understand
15:35:28  * andythenorth quick mask
15:35:29  <Eddi|zuHause> why can't you just have a thing that splits the two lanes of a belt into two individual belts?
15:35:48  <V453000> andythenorth: :)
15:35:49  <Wolf01> you just need to figure out that a contraption like that is a lane inverter
15:35:58  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: extra entity, same result
15:36:16  <Eddi|zuHause> see, that is "bullshit".
15:36:20  <V453000> XD gg
15:36:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you just throw more things in the way to something that should be simple.
15:36:44  <V453000> yeah, should is very debatable
15:37:14  <Islacrusez> as we very much debated earlier
15:38:00  <Wolf01> eddi, could you tell me what is this at first glance?
15:38:05  <Islacrusez> now we're just comparing the actual method to accomplish certain tasks with my proposed approach (single-tile) vs the current system (creative use of tunnel entrances and exits)
15:38:59  <V453000> Wolf01: obviously nobody familiar with the game would, because it isn't intuitive, as we agreed earlier :)
15:39:02  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, interestingly that actually exploits two separate mechanics in a veery creative way; even the guys who make the game had to take a while to figure out how that damn thing works xD
15:39:23  <Wolf01> and I had to copy it too
15:39:42  <Wolf01> but now I think I could expand that shit to more items
15:39:55  <Islacrusez> V453000, I think the point of that was not that it's not intuitive to someone not familiar with the game; it's not even intuitive to the people who made the game; basically anyone not familiar with that particular mechanism will have a hard time reading it
15:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: "at first glance" is a non-issue
15:40:38  <V453000> which is fine that you need to learn the "symbolism of th game" first
15:40:56  <V453000> and yes, the splitter trick has been discussed, I am not sure if it is fixed in 0.13 actually
15:41:27  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has joined #openttd
15:41:30  <V453000> but intention is to fix it eventually
15:42:47  <andythenorth> well it’s nice that factorio keeps this community together and active :)
15:43:02  <johannes_> Hello, can please someone (of the programmers) please quickly answer question (2) from ? I need to know it to continue...
15:43:26  <V453000> andythenorth: XD
15:44:58  <V453000> soooo what is the opinion on the new stack inserteR?
15:45:32  <Islacrusez> V453000, not a huge fan, but will have to try it to see
15:45:34  <andythenorth> oops, can’t encode RGB pngs :P
15:45:52  <Islacrusez> it'll make my current train unloaders obsolete I think
15:46:18  <Wolf01> V, do you know we can use your arguments against you? but it's ok, it would help in some cases
15:46:24  <V453000> it certainly changes some things, but inside of factories it actually does make an interesting mechanic
15:46:33  <V453000> yes Wolf01 ?
15:47:11  <Islacrusez> V453000, I haven't really gone through and checked how it'd affect my builds
15:48:03  <Islacrusez> I only suspect my train unloader would probably no longer need 5 fast inserters a side to saturate a belt if stack inserters are used
15:48:22  *** orudge [] has joined #openttd
15:48:45  <andythenorth> can we have inserters in openttd? o_O
15:49:22  *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
15:49:23  <Alberth> soon :p
15:50:27  <Flygon> ....
15:50:27  <Alberth> you could perhaps make animated station tiles?
15:50:29  <Wolf01> the most waited feaure is the blueprint book
15:50:35  <Flygon> <Islacrusez> I only suspect my train unloader would probably no longer need 5 fast inserters a side to saturate a belt if stack inserters are used
15:50:43  <Flygon> I'm not sure if we're talking about OpenTTD or Factorio
15:50:46  <Flygon> I only just walked in
15:50:54  <Wolf01> and if that wouldn't be in 0.13 I won't update until 0.14
15:53:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: this channel is almost never about openttd :p
15:53:56  <Flygon> True
15:53:57  <Flygon> Hahaha
15:53:58  <Flygon> Anyway
15:54:00  <Flygon> Hyvaa yota :3
15:54:05  <andythenorth> openttd is no longer about the game :P
15:54:13  <Islacrusez> Flygon, Factorio appears to have stolen the spotlight in this channel; which is understandable, both games are very much the art of logistics
15:54:23  <Islacrusez> someone should mod TTD into Factorio
15:55:04  <Alberth> factorio already has trains, afaik
15:56:04  <Islacrusez> Alberth, I mean the type of play; imagine starting a game with pre-built factories and mines spawning on the map, and you have to connect them with only belts, trains, and pipes, unable to build new factories
15:56:39  <Islacrusez> [simplified, of course]
15:56:47  <Wolf01> Islacrusez, you did browse the mod section, you didn't?
15:57:08  <Wolf01> there is a mod where you play INSIDE a factorio train
15:57:16  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, hah xD
15:58:01  <Samu> i want to reset settings that aren't "anchored" as you put it
15:58:08  <Samu> hmm...
15:58:48  <Samu> line 136 script_config.cpp
15:58:51  <V453000> fuck it, wagon is rendering, I go play 0.13 :P
15:58:52  <V453000> hype?
15:59:04  <Wolf01> hype
15:59:26  <Samu> or rather... uhm... right, brb
16:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no hype
16:00:40  <Samu>;a=blob;f=src/ai/ai_gui.cpp;h=a0720e2ea50483529ac0aa4e56c5dfcdbecd076e;hb=HEAD#l524
16:00:46  <Samu> line 524 ai_gui.cpp
16:01:00  <Samu> it resets settings regardless if they're anchored
16:01:16  <Samu> I want to prevent anchored settings to be reset, what to do
16:03:07  <Islacrusez> Wolf01, actually not looked at the mods much; want to finish my seecond vanilla playthrough first
16:03:31  <Wolf01> I didn't even finish the tutorial
16:03:45  <V453000> nub!
16:03:59  *** Arveen [] has joined #openttd
16:04:36  <Wolf01> got to the part where you have to rebuild the mining outpost and fix the defences, and started to waste time aggroing the biters
16:05:15  <Wolf01> now I'm playing survival and I'm drilling my way throught the nests
16:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i played through the demo a long time ago
16:06:18  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't scratch my itches
16:06:44  <supermop> games don't really scratch any itch for me
16:06:50  <Wolf01> I purchased it as soon as I started the demo
16:06:57  <supermop> except maybe go
16:07:21  <Islacrusez> my playthrough was tutorial, campaign, one playthrough on default to learn the game, and then I modified map generation to fit how I wanted to play it and start a second playthrough for pure enjoyment
16:10:39  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:12:10  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
16:27:15  *** Flygon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:30:27  <Wolf01> /me is going to watch warcraft (the movie)
16:30:31  <Wolf01> so...
16:30:34  <Wolf01> 'night :D
16:30:45  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
16:34:03  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
16:36:22  <supermop>
16:37:42  <supermop> andythenorth:  ^
16:38:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell is a "rolling slab ingot"?
16:39:07  <andythenorth> is that what you roll from?
16:39:21  * andythenorth assumes it’s the feedstock to a rolling mill
16:39:28  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:41:26  <Eddi|zuHause> also, how do you break out of a blockade? if i send my ships into battle and then retreat, they just turn back into the port they came from
16:41:57  <Islacrusez> I imagine you need to beat the shit out of the guys doing the blockading
16:42:28  <Eddi|zuHause> not enough ships for that...
16:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have the same number of ships, but they have galleys and i have transports and light ships. so i make virtually no damage
16:43:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and the transports tank only so much...
16:43:23  <Islacrusez> what're you playing?
16:43:48  <Eddi|zuHause> does that matter? :p
16:43:48  <Samu> uhm, i'm being mislead by void ScriptConfig::AnchorUnchangeableSettings()
16:44:12  <Samu> what is this anchoring after all?
16:44:45  <Samu> i saw it anchoring a changeable setting
16:45:10  <Samu> or is my interpretation different
16:45:48  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:47:05  <Samu> it's doing a "AnchorUnchangeableSettings-PlusSettingsDifferentThanDefault"
16:47:21  <Samu> it puts them both in the same "bag"
16:49:29  <Samu> when ResetSettings is called
16:49:44  <Samu> both unchangeable settings and settings different than default get reset
16:50:14  <Samu> unchangeable settings are supposed to never reset
16:50:33  <Samu> i need to examine this better
16:51:59  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has joined #openttd
16:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause> HA. i actually managed to beat the shit out of them, with help from my allies :)
16:55:21  <andythenorth> hmm
16:55:58  <andythenorth> the only way to make sprites good
16:56:04  <andythenorth> is to care about them more than anyone will actually notice
16:56:05  <andythenorth> :P
16:56:37  <Alberth> or just put all the pixels exactly right :p
16:59:22  <Samu> 	 * As long as the default of a setting has not been changed, the value of 	 * the setting is not stored. This to allow changing the difficulty setting 	 * without having to reset the script's config. However, when a setting may 	 * not be changed in game, we must "anchor" this value to what the setting 	 * would be at the time of starting. Otherwise changing the difficulty 	 * setting would change the setting's value (which isn't allowed).
17:01:47  <Islacrusez> Eddi|zuHause, there's a lot of difference between what you can do in say Stellaris to say Grepolis, so yes, it matters :P
17:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm playing Europa Universalis IV
17:02:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but the AI is terribly uncoordinated with ships
17:02:32  <Islacrusez> ah, good luck with that; EU3 still kicks my ass until I can wear it like a hat
17:02:44  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
17:02:47  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
17:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> like, sweden has half their ships sitting around somewhere instead of blockading denmark...
17:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and my measly saxon fleet is totally not up to fighting denmark on their own
17:18:54  <Eddi|zuHause> also, wtf is sweden doing anyway? its army is just moving back and forth between two provinces...
17:28:29  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
17:28:53  <andythenorth> quak
17:32:36  <Samu> anchor unchangeable settings is fine after all, if I understood
17:32:45  <Samu> resetsettings is then... wrong
17:33:08  <Samu> resetsettings can't just reset all that is anchored
17:33:15  <Samu> must do it in some other way
17:33:54  <frosch123> hoi
17:34:25  <Alberth> hola
17:34:28  <Samu> frosch123: are you responsible for the last trunk change?
17:34:44  <Samu> I'm getting some AIs stopping quite early
17:35:30  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
17:38:33  <Samu> i tried cluelessplus on a 64x64 map, and it couldn't build an HQ, too much CPU blabla
17:39:23  <Samu> i don't want to imagine on a 4096 map
17:40:04  *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:41:08  <Samu> i've tried NoCAB on the same 64x64, this one is much more heavy and it didn't trigger that CPU thing however
17:41:24  <Samu> something's quite not right
17:43:10  *** debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4584:4200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
17:48:35  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:51:01  *** juzza1_ [] has joined #openttd
17:53:21  <supermop> andythenorth: i just thought they looked comically large blocks of aluminum
17:54:21  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has joined #openttd
17:55:39  *** juzza1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:58:15  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:01:51  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
18:04:52  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
18:05:10  *** Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:07:04  *** frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
18:15:10  *** M-E [] has joined #openttd
18:16:36  *** Klanticus [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
18:17:15  <Samu> this resetsettings deal is quite complex for me after all, time to give up
18:20:10  *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:20:13  *** Quatroking [] has joined #openttd
18:26:56  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
18:26:59  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
18:28:03  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:30:00  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:33:38  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:35:32  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27596 /branches/1.6 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2016-06-01 20:35:24 +0200 )
18:35:33  <DorpsGek> [1.6] -Update: Documentation
18:41:07  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27597 /tags/1.6.1-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2016-06-01 20:41:01 +0200 )
18:41:08  <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.6.1-RC1
18:52:11  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has joined #openttd
18:56:10  *** Gja [] has joined #openttd
18:56:35  *** M-E [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:10:11  <Samu> I wish I had a handy GS with 0 parameters
19:12:02  <Samu> double clicking a GS script: if (Game::GetInstance() != NULL && GetConfig(this->selected_slot)->GetConfigList()->size() != 0) ShowAISettingsWindow((CompanyID)this->selected_slot);
19:12:31  <Samu> to make sure if this would work
19:18:31  <Samu> there are no AIs with 0 parameters, but just in case... I'll put this test in it anyway
19:19:08  <Samu> does someone know of a GS script with 0 parameters? I need one for testing
19:19:52  *** aard [] has joined #openttd
19:20:13  *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@] has joined #openttd
19:20:14  *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:21:05  *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@] has joined #openttd
19:26:31  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has joined #openttd
19:27:14  *** roidal [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4]
19:27:36  <andythenorth> truck trailers are just train wagons with wheels moved around
19:27:38  <johannes_> Any programmer here who can answer question (2) of ? I.e. can I use C++11 for a part of OpenTTD that's not needed in the core?
19:28:33  *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:31:34  <frosch123> why not?
19:31:56  <frosch123> ottd also uses objective c and other weird languages
19:32:28  *** DDR [] has joined #openttd
19:35:38  <frosch123> if ottd wouldn't have to compile on an arcane osx cross compiler, it would likely use c++11 als in the core
19:37:10  <supermop> andythenorth: if they are just moving the train wheels around, i hope they are paying extra road tax at least
19:41:38  *** Arveen [] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 -]
19:41:52  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:54:40  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has joined #openttd
19:54:56  <johannes_> frosch123: thanks, I'll try C++11 then
20:02:34  *** ProfFrink [] has joined #openttd
20:07:42  <Samu> new version of my stuff :o
20:07:52  <Samu>
20:08:16  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:08:16  *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
20:08:29  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
20:12:23  *** johannes_ [~johannes@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:15:01  *** sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
20:15:55  *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:17:37  *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@] has joined #openttd
20:18:46  *** rahtgaz [] has joined #openttd
20:19:02  *** Flygon [] has joined #openttd
20:25:14  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
20:32:28  *** Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
20:35:08  *** Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
20:36:15  *** andythenorth [~Andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:53:30  *** pereba [AdiIRC@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59:33  *** pereba [~adiirc@] has joined #openttd
21:00:50  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:02:08  *** sla_ro|master [] has quit []
21:11:34  *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@] has joined #openttd
21:14:53  *** Clockworker_ [Clockworke@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:15:09  *** Clockworker__ [Clockworke@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:15:18  *** Clockworker [Clockworke@] has joined #openttd
21:16:15  *** aard [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:18:39  <Samu> glx: how do I create a standalone bundle of OpenTTD?
21:18:45  <Samu> so i can zip it
21:19:06  <Samu> on visual studio
21:19:36  <glx> can't be done from VS
21:19:49  <Samu> oh, :\
21:20:08  <glx> we use "make bundle"
21:20:35  <Samu> t.t
21:20:56  <Samu> I keep hearing make bundle all the time
21:21:04  <Samu> sometimes i hear make install
21:23:47  <Samu> did you ever try any of my patches? just wondering if it is causing issues
21:23:59  <Samu> I don't think anyone ever tried
21:24:08  <Samu> I don't get that much feedback
21:30:13  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
21:32:07  *** gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
21:39:00  *** Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
22:03:42  <Samu> there is a strange bug with scenario editor start date
22:05:18  <Samu> gonna try to reproduce it
22:05:41  *** NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo]
22:06:40  <Samu> okay, I got the reproduceable steps
22:07:08  *** Wormnest [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:07:32  <Samu> so I launch openttd, then scenario editor, it has a start date of 1950
22:08:14  <Samu> if i change the date to ... say 1960, then exit the editor, then when i click new game, the start date for the new game is still 1950
22:08:45  <Samu> but
22:09:01  <Samu> if I load a scenario
22:09:14  <Samu> that scenario has a date of 1960
22:09:27  <Samu> then i exit scenario editor, when i click new game, the date is now 1960 :(
22:10:09  <Samu> seems to be a bug about loading scenarios
22:10:19  <Samu> gonna report
22:13:29  *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:22:29  *** keoz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:48:36  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:49:25  <Samu> bug reported:
22:49:56  <Samu> heh, harder to say it in words than actually performing it
23:01:11  *** Hiddenfunstuff [] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- *I* use it, so it must be good!]
23:18:44  <Samu> strange, I'm getting a ton of 'received invalid or unexpected packet' from clients joining my servers
23:19:11  <Samu> I wonder if it's because of hibernate feature
23:20:55  <Samu> I hibernate windows 10 in-between, maybe it's the cause
23:21:18  *** JetFox [] has joined #openttd
23:21:19  <Samu> when the system wakes up, users that join appear to get that error
23:21:50  <Samu> I can't confirm this though
23:22:19  <JetFox> ?
23:24:14  <Samu> i start a server, then I have to go to bed or so, and I don't want to shut down the server, so I hibernate windows 10. When I wake up, I can return windows to what it was before I went to bed.
23:25:05  <Samu> I do this so that I can preserve clients company passwords, but I suspect this doesn't always work
23:25:22  <JetFox> Hibernation isnt exactly nice for a server.
23:25:45  <JetFox> Imagine the time clock you hibernated around 10PM, the server stops to go into hibernation.  You wake it up at 7AM.. it has no idea what to do during that time.
23:26:02  <JetFox> You basically told it to skip time where it was supposed to process something
23:27:40  <Samu> I think it's network related though
23:28:01  *** FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
23:28:16  <Samu> I don't always get the same IP address between hibernations
23:28:47  <Samu> but there's no way I can confirm
23:29:46  <Samu> and Windows firewall is so confusing for me to configure
23:30:08  <JetFox> Why not just get a  ovp vps and put it on there?
23:30:17  <JetFox> it wont go into hibernate
23:35:30  <Samu> but it's strange that the master server recognizes my server coming online from hibernation
23:35:52  <Samu> how else would players be able to even join
23:36:25  <Samu> :( I dunno what it is, but appears only after hibernation sessions
23:37:01  *** Snail [] has joined #openttd
23:40:59  *** Snail_ [] has joined #openttd
23:41:56  *** Smedles [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:45:03  *** Snail [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:45:03  *** Snail_ is now known as Snail
23:45:37  <FLHerne> Samu: When you launch a public server, it sends a packet to the master
23:45:59  <FLHerne> To tell it it's there, and the name/settings/etc
23:50:49  *** Smedles [~quassel@] has joined #openttd
23:54:53  <Samu> I really have no way to test this by myself alone
23:55:04  <Samu> I need a volunteer
23:55:06  <Samu> :p
23:56:01  <Samu> my spectating instances don't error out even when coming from hibernation
23:56:19  <Samu> but I didn't try rejoining
23:56:29  <ST2> try spectating from other machine
23:57:14  <Samu> that other machine is on the same home network
23:57:26  <Samu> but yeah, i got to test
23:57:34  <Samu> if I get permission from my parents
23:57:42  <ST2> and as JetFox said, there are very cheap vps's for testings ^^
23:57:42  <Samu> it's their rig
23:59:06  *** FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk