Log for #openttd on 3rd June 2016:
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00:08:03  <Samu> i'm tired...
00:09:47  <Samu> trying to find or imagine all cases where the code could fail is tiresome
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02:32:22  <JetFox> Hello
02:35:56  <Mazur> Hi.
02:39:26  <JetFox> hows it goin
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05:56:52  <greeter> hmm, i have an issue installing the latest openttd on ubuntu. when i try installing the .deb file, the package manager says it depends on libicu52, but the only version i can get in the repos is libicu55. should i just try to install libicu52 from somewhere other than the repos?
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06:09:12  <Alkel_U3> I you just want the latest stable you can add the PlayDeb repository, although I didn't test if that works
06:09:35  <greeter> ah, i'll give it a try if this latest attempt of mine fails. i'm trying to compile from source
06:11:06  <Alkel_U3> or you can download the generic binaries if you don't need to install it system-wide. Those should have their dependencies bundled with, if I understand that correctly
06:11:27  <greeter> alright
06:11:55  <greeter> i actually didn't believe the generic binaries would work, so after trying both ubuntu and debian packages, i grabbed the source and decided to try it
06:13:12  <Alkel_U3> well that's pretty straightforward, too
06:13:46  <greeter> probably more straight forward than this rofl
06:15:15  <greeter> hmm, if compilation succeeds, i wonder if i can make a working .deb file for other 64 bit ubuntu 16.04 users
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06:23:27  <greeter> hmm, might be possible, but it sure isn't easy lol, even checkinstall complained, but it installed perfectly anyway :-)
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07:23:05  <greeter> how do i see the coverage area of a station that i want to build?
07:23:25  <greeter> oh never mind, i just found it
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08:30:16  <Wolf01> o/
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09:57:45  <Samu> hi~
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10:14:19  <Samu> Hey, I think the description of this setting "Distribution mode for ARMOURED cargo class" is incorrect
10:14:40  <Samu> subtropical don't have valuables, they have diamonds
10:16:06  <Samu> "bla bla (...) For temperate and subtropical you can also choose symetric as banks will send valuables back to the origin bank of some load of valuables."
10:21:51  <peter1138> They're still valuable ;p
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11:41:03  <Samu> think i found a code error: when typing in console "setting gui.ai_developer_tools 1", it is invalidating the wrong window, WC_AI_SETTINGS, it should be WC_AI_DEBUG
11:42:48  <Samu> line 627 settings.h
11:43:03  <Samu> line 1109 settings.cpp
11:43:54  <Samu> but WC_AI_DEBUG isn't prepared anyway
11:44:00  <Samu> to handle that request
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13:02:52  <Jaenster> dropsbek
13:02:55  <Jaenster> dropsgek *
13:04:33  <Xaroth|Work> you do know you're talking to a bot, right?
13:13:09  <supermop_> isnt it dorps not drops?
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13:26:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Der Drops is gelutscht!
13:33:56  <Samu> what do u think of infrastructure costs for company-owned land?
13:34:02  <Samu> make it expensive
13:44:29  <Samu> maybe make the cost raise based on duration the land is maintained
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13:46:51  <Samu> or nevermind...
13:50:31  <Samu> cargo flow legend button is buggy
13:51:07  <Samu> when a company bankrupts, and that company was not being filtered, the button becomes "pressed-down-yet-disabled"
13:54:13  <Samu> - look at Cargo Flow Legend window, 3rd company button is pressed down, because it was a company I was watching but bankrupted
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13:55:08  <Samu> is it worth reporting?
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14:10:11  <Samu> Alberth - this window, WC_TEXTFILE, seems to have little flexibility
14:10:25  <Samu> it is the window for readme, licence and changelog
14:11:21  <Samu> imagine that I have a random ai company running and i'm looking at the readme of the chosen random ai, and suddenly an AI, which is not this one, bankrupts.
14:12:04  <Samu> I didn't want to close the window
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14:13:16  <Samu> it's not the readme of this company
14:13:33  <Samu> but if it was, that slot would go back to random, and random doesn't have a readme
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14:13:46  <Samu> so I have to close it anyway
14:13:52  <Samu> else openttd will crash
14:15:39  <Samu> i can't seem to link a company to the WC_TEXTFILE window so that I only close it when really necessary
14:15:45  <Samu> is there a way?
14:18:28  <Alberth> so display the readme of an ai rather than of a company?
14:21:09  <Alberth> ie I can display the readme of an ai before it's started (at least I hope you can)
14:21:30  <Alberth> at that moment, there is no company for this ai, yet I can read the readme
14:22:26  <Samu> there is no readme for random ai. before it starts it's just without readme. after it starts, it may have a readme
14:22:36  <Samu> at that point i can open the readme
14:23:03  <Samu> at that point as well, the company may bankrupt
14:23:19  <Alberth> the readme still exists after bankrupt
14:23:43  <Samu> i have code that changes its name, and associated readme back to random, so the window has to close
14:23:45  <Alberth> the readme window should not use company to find readmes
14:24:21  <Alberth> it should use the ai identification
14:24:50  <Samu> ah, i see
14:24:51  <Alberth> a company has no readme
14:25:25  <Alberth> maybe the ai that runs the company has one
14:25:53  <Alberth> and that will still exist no matter what happens to the company
14:26:24  <Samu> I see, so i got to make it open the textfile in some other way
14:26:37  <Alberth> think so indeed
14:27:17  <Alberth> it's fine to find the ai through the company when you open the window imho
14:28:14  <Alberth> but you should not use that link all the time until the window closes
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14:28:21  <Samu> openttd crashes when it tries to draw the readme for random ai
14:28:36  <Alberth> that sounds likely :)
14:28:52  <Alberth> button is not disabled?
14:28:57  <Alberth> woow :p
14:29:28  <Samu> button is disabled
14:29:46  <Samu> slightly complicated to explain
14:30:06  <Samu> readme button = disabled when slot is configured with random ai
14:30:14  <Alberth> ok
14:30:18  <Samu> readme button = enabled when random ai starts
14:30:30  <Samu> readme button = disabled when random ai dies
14:30:44  <Samu> problem is when i open it when it starts and leave it open and company dies
14:30:51  <Alberth> so button works as you'd think it should be
14:31:10  <Samu> it's not a problem with buttons, but with the opened window when the random ai died
14:31:11  <Alberth> but the window doesn't :p
14:31:54  <Samu> i think i know what I got to do
14:32:12  <Samu> problem is how it opens
14:32:15  <Alberth> great
14:32:15  <Samu> the textfile
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14:32:44  <Alberth> yo andy
14:33:09  <andythenorth> lo
14:39:28  <andythenorth> is cat?
14:43:34  <Alberth> cat is, afaik
14:45:35  <Samu> assert(c != NULL);
14:46:13  * andythenorth wonders how a new transport type would be added to the game
14:46:17  <andythenorth> presumably the map is full?
14:46:23  <Samu> how do i disassociate it from the config slot
14:46:30  <Samu> :8
14:46:33  <Alberth> you can make new tile types :p
14:46:52  <Alberth> although we currently have 16, so 4 bits exactly
14:46:58  <andythenorth> does that not eat all the memory or something? :P
14:47:25  <Alberth> no, you need a new bit for 16 new tile types
14:47:46  <Samu> c is not null.... 			3435973836	unsigned int
14:47:54  <Alberth> each tile type is independent from all other tile types, so they have all bits free except those 5 for the tile type
14:48:20  <Samu>  * @param c Buffer to place decoded character.
14:48:42  <Alberth> Samu: that looks like a pointer
14:48:59  <Alberth> ie a memory address
14:49:09  <Samu> the assert didn't trigger the crash
14:49:19  <Samu> it escaped the assert
14:49:26  <Samu> but crashed right in the next line
14:49:28  <Alberth> of course, 3435973836 is very much not NULL :)
14:49:41  <Samu> if (!HasBit(s[0], 7)) {
14:49:49  <Samu> * @param s Character stream to retrieve character from.
14:49:58  <Samu> S is NULL
14:50:00  <Samu> s
14:50:20  <Samu> shouldn't the assert be for s?
14:50:43  <Alberth> apparently not, but it doesn't matter, it crashes either way :)
14:51:21  <Samu> >	openttd.exe!Utf8Decode(unsigned int * c, const char * s) Line 441	C++
14:51:41  <Samu> line 441, string.cpp
14:53:09  <Samu> that's random ai
14:53:10  <Samu> lol
14:53:49  <Samu> it must de-link from the slot
14:54:19  <Samu> don't know the right word for it
14:56:23  <Samu> i want it to "show and forget where it came from"
14:57:00  <Samu> instead of "show the readme of this slot and always keep track of it"
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15:02:34  * andythenorth ponders OpenTTD 2
15:05:01  <Alberth> but we already decided what's going to be in it :p
15:05:51  <Wolf01> also I won't like a pay2win game :P
15:08:17  <andythenorth> Alberth: what’s in it? :D
15:10:55  <Alberth> everything you ever wanted but were afraid to ask
15:17:19  <andythenorth> :P
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15:20:43  <Anolitt> Hi folks! I was just trying to generate an arctic climate map, but I keep getting the error message saying that no forest industry could be generated, and that I should try to change the map parameters and try again. But no matter what I do, I can't get forest to spawn. Anyone know if that's a bug or anything else?
15:21:11  <NoShlomo> Hello, are city builder scripts usually buggy/unstable? Keeping in mind I'm playing with a patched ottd client, I've tried both Aphid's citybuilder and simple city builder and they both crash
15:24:36  <Alberth> arctic forests must be above the snowline
15:24:51  <Alberth> so make high mountains and have a low snowline
15:26:02  <Alberth> it might be best if you use the original max height setting of 16
15:26:22  <Alberth> loading a good heightmap will work too
15:28:26  <Samu> i don't know how to fix this
15:29:56  <Samu> it's 15, not 16
15:30:57  <Samu> it's the video thread dude that sets openttd to crash
15:31:03  <Samu> i dont know how to handle this
15:31:48  <Samu> i have the idea what needs to be done, but i don't know how to code it
15:32:29  <Alberth> getting the idea is often the biggest hurdle :)
15:36:35  <Alberth> NoShlomo: did you check the discussion threads for those scripts?
15:36:58  <_dp_> NoShlomo, we run servers with simple cb gs, never saw it crashing
15:37:00  <Alberth> I don't think you can generalize stability
15:39:30  <Samu> video thread wants to redraw all windowses, all widgets
15:39:42  <Samu> then it crashes on WC_TEXTFILE
15:39:49  <Samu> it's a widget?
15:40:45  <NoShlomo> Alberth _dp_ yeah, I haven't actually looked into fixing the problems I get with the scripts but I was wondering if this is common, my guess is the patched client somehow fucks with the scrips
15:40:52  <Alberth> WC_TEXTFILE is a window class
15:41:16  <Samu> ah, the window title
15:41:21  <Samu> it crashes on the title
15:41:22  <_dp_> NoShlomo, depends on what kind of patches you use
15:41:53  <Samu> AI licence of .... garbled stuff that makes it crash, this is the widget?
15:42:37  <Alberth> a widget is any rectangular shaped element in a window
15:42:51  <Alberth> buttons, list, matrix cells, anything
15:42:59  <Samu> even window titles?
15:43:16  <Alberth> the rectangle containing the window title is
15:44:05  <Alberth> that widget draws the text. If the text is garbage, it crashes, just like any code
15:44:42  <Alberth> ie letters are also drawn pixel by pixel
15:46:02  <Samu> it's not even getting to the point of actually reading a textfile yet
15:46:06  <Samu> :(
15:46:48  <Alberth> not sure, it may already have done that
15:47:03  <Alberth> you don't want to read data from disk while drawing
15:47:25  <Alberth> instead, you read the data, and then say "here, draw this"
15:47:45  <Samu> ah
15:48:29  <Alberth> although newgrfs are loaded on the fly, I think
15:49:11  <Alberth> with a lot of pre-processing to minimize the amont of work while drawing
15:49:18  <Alberth> *amount
15:49:54  <Samu> the garbled stuff is a NULL
15:50:02  <Alberth> but it's simple to check, put a breakpoint where it reads the text
15:50:13  <Alberth> if it crashes, it draws first
15:50:17  <Samu> tries to decode NULL as utf-8 thing
15:50:22  <Samu> but can't
15:50:29  <Alberth> if it hits the breakpoint it reads first
15:52:07  <Samu> i tried following breakpoints, but i get a crash coming from the video thread, and i dont know how to follow this part of the code
15:52:13  <Samu> oops, using breakpoints*
15:55:01  <Samu> the searching of things to redraw finds this window title widget
15:55:05  <Samu> and boom :o
15:55:46  <Samu> sorry, i can't seem to understand this
15:58:05  <Samu> VideoDriver::GetInstance()->MainLoop();
15:58:32  <Samu> this is what it's doing from openttd.cpp
15:59:27  <Samu> splits into 4
15:59:42  <Samu> Dedicated, NULL, SDL, Win32
16:00:01  <Samu> went with win32
16:00:20  <Samu> UpdateWindows();
16:01:04  <Samu> FOR_ALL_WINDOWS_FROM_BACK(w) - this is doing some magic as I don't understand how it gets the windowses
16:01:58  <Samu> but that widget title is found and asked to redraw
16:02:04  <Samu> hmm :(
16:02:11  <Xaroth|Work> look at the definition of it?
16:02:14  <Xaroth|Work> it smells like a macro
16:10:05  <Alberth> it is, it builds a for loop that walks through all windows from back to front
16:10:55  <Samu> 	GetString(buffer, strid, lastof(buffer));
16:11:08  <Samu> strid is...
16:11:11  <Samu> let me check
16:11:14  <Alberth> string id
16:11:30  <Alberth> it converts the string id to real characters
16:11:38  <Alberth> ie utf8 encoded string
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16:13:01  <Samu> STR_TEXTFILE_LICENCE_CAPTION                                    :{WHITE}{STRING} licence of {RAW_STRING}
16:13:28  <Samu> AI license of
16:13:34  <Samu> Raw_string makes it crash
16:13:36  <Samu> :/
16:13:40  <Alberth> a char * parameter
16:13:55  <Alberth> which presumable should point to the name of the ai
16:14:05  <Alberth> but apparently doesn't
16:14:20  <Samu> AI license of (random)
16:14:43  <Samu> AI license of Random AI
16:14:53  <Samu> i keep getting that
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16:15:41  <Samu> the buffer changes
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16:17:25  <Samu> i dont even know what's in the buffer anymore? a NULL, it seems
16:18:12  <Alberth> NULL means "there is no buffer"
16:19:06  <Samu> how do i know what's in {RAW_STRING}
16:19:18  <Samu> can't really get how it changes
16:23:43  <Samu> there is a pointer to {RAW_STRING}
16:24:00  <Samu> but {RAW_STRING} content is NULL?
16:24:14  <Samu> i'm confused
16:25:23  <Samu> time to give up, I'm not going anywhere with this
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16:26:04  <Samu> ** Type for wide characters, i.e. non-UTF8 encoded unicode characters. */ typedef uint32 WChar;
16:26:25  <Samu> const char *s
16:26:30  <Samu> *s is NULL
16:27:52  <Samu> Unhandled exception at 0x00007FF635D18426 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000000000000. If there is a handler for this exception, the program may be safely continued.
16:28:35  <Samu> well, sorry for bothering, but I guess I'm gonna resort to closing the window whenever the company bankrupts
16:28:47  <Samu> from the AI
16:28:54  <Samu> ai_core.cpp
16:30:55  <Samu>  /* static */ void AI::Stop(CompanyID company) { bla; bla; 	if (AIConfig::GetConfig(company, AIConfig::SSS_FORCE_GAME)->IsRandom()) { 		DeleteWindowById(WC_AI_SETTINGS, company); 		DeleteWindowByClass(WC_TEXTFILE); 	}
16:31:24  <Samu> it just closes it regardless for which slot it is
16:31:33  <Samu> but oh well, i don't know better
16:36:37  <supermop_> andythenorth: 08 should be chubby chibi
16:37:01  <andythenorth> Leanden needs someone drawing pixels for it
16:38:23  <supermop_> shouldn't have stuck my head out
16:39:05  <supermop_> i actually find ukrs and br set to have br blue as being too blue
16:39:16  <andythenorth> palette is limited :)
16:39:24  <supermop_> cant do it accurate in tt pallet
16:39:41  <andythenorth> there is a range that is close enough though
16:39:47  <supermop_> but, i like to use the more teal 'light blue' cc
16:40:20  <supermop_> which while a bit too green, is a good 'caricature' of br blue
16:41:27  <supermop_> i managed to convince my brother to powdercoat a touring bike frame he was building up in Rail Blue a few years ago
16:41:49  <supermop_> couldn't get him to bite on warning yellow for wheels and racks though
16:42:07  <andythenorth> :P
16:43:44  <supermop_> he lives in chicago so has room to accrue and build superfluous bikes, that i do not
16:44:48  <supermop_> should have tried to find some other bit of metal to go through the line with it though...
16:45:05  <supermop_> who doesn't want a Large Logo air conditioner
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16:45:41  <supermop_> large logo is a national treasure of British Design
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16:49:02  <supermop_>
17:05:28  <Alkel_U3> nice :D
17:08:55  <supermop_> i'd drive that
17:10:11  <Anolitt> @Alberth ok, thank you!
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17:27:40  <Alberth> Large lego would be easy to get rid of here :)
17:33:11  * andythenorth has enough :|
17:42:56  <monsted> you can never have enough
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18:14:11  <Alberth> hola
18:14:18  * andythenorth wonders how long vehicles should be in / \ views
18:14:20  <andythenorth> is it known?
18:14:34  <frosch123> where is catherine?
18:14:34  <andythenorth> I think I’m doing it wrong
18:14:41  <andythenorth> cat is making pixels
18:14:57  <frosch123> hoi :)
18:17:34  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: <- can you explain the usage of "maker" in the abstrat to me?
18:17:44  <frosch123> *abstract
18:18:19  <Eddi|zuHause> never heard the word used in that way before...
18:18:30  <Eddi|zuHause> a play on "Hacker"?
18:18:39  <frosch123> no, they are partipicants of the "maker fair"
18:19:53  <andythenorth> makers = hackers who make physical stuff
18:20:03  <andythenorth> e.g. mostly 3D printing, laser cutting etc
18:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i thought
18:20:17  <andythenorth> but also robotics, machines, recycling & reuse
18:20:25  <andythenorth> craft, textiles, etc also
18:20:38  <andythenorth> overlaps with fine art occasionally, but mostly not
18:21:30  <andythenorth>
18:22:54  <Wolf01> * andythenorth wonders how long vehicles should be in / \ views <- ask V, he should really know that now ;)
18:23:21  <Alberth> he may also have a different opinion than most others :)
18:25:05  <andythenorth> I get 10px (horizontal edge length) from the bounding box tool for 5/8 in \ view
18:26:23  <andythenorth> but the sprites are drawn at 12px for same measurement direction
18:26:41  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> but also robotics, machines, recycling & reuse <- looks like fallout
18:27:03  <andythenorth> also Iron Horse uses 10px for that dimension :P
18:27:16  <andythenorth> at some point the trucks have gone off-template :P
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18:29:23  <andythenorth> that will need fixed eh
18:29:25  <andythenorth> :(
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18:31:42  <andythenorth> looks better though
18:32:12  <andythenorth> only 4 angles on 10 trucks to fix :P
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18:41:33  <Wolf01> ok... now it makes sense, I read "angels" for 3 times in a row :|
18:42:06  <Wolf01> "dear satan.. I want a puppy this year..."
18:47:29  <Alkel_U3>
18:47:57  <Wolf01> exactly
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18:58:26  <andythenorth>
18:59:28  <andythenorth> ?
18:59:36  <Wolf01> they look cool
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19:08:59  <andythenorth> so OpenTTD 2....
19:09:06  <andythenorth> - NotRoadTypes
19:09:10  <andythenorth> - flat docks
19:09:12  <andythenorth> - 2 tile locks
19:09:24  <andythenorth> - water types (ugh, but currently rivers and canals are daft)
19:09:33  <andythenorth> - deprecate old newgrf stuff :P
19:09:53  <andythenorth> - unitised transport type, with restrictions
19:10:25  <andythenorth> - ‘new improved’ landscape generator for Tropic
19:10:47  <Wolf01> paid dlc
19:11:15  <andythenorth> nah, none of it’s good enough :P
19:11:39  <Rubidium> isn't p1sim effectively openttd 2?
19:12:07  <andythenorth> only if you’re not using ‘effectively’ in the standard UK English sense :D
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19:14:03  <peter1138> openttd 2, rewrite from scratch
19:14:33  <andythenorth> always goes well :)
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19:16:04  <andythenorth> what’s gained?  Other than ‘snappier’
19:16:28  <Rubidium> steam!
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19:27:52  <andythenorth> :P
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19:40:26  <Wolf01> omfg it's fantastic O_O, where's V? I want to give him a cookie
19:45:16  <andythenorth> engineering supplies
19:45:30  <Wolf01> yeah
19:50:29  <frosch123> V453000: is honza the #coop honza?
19:53:22  <frosch123> hmm, maybe i am mixing up names
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20:00:43  <andythenorth> hmm
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20:01:01  <andythenorth> it’s hard to show capacity progression by size of truck sprites
20:01:13  <andythenorth> more capacity = ~same size, at TTD scale
20:05:13  <frosch123> add more wheels
20:05:31  <frosch123> early small trucks only need 3
20:06:08  <frosch123> then 2-2, 2-4, 2-6, 4-6
20:06:31  <andythenorth>
20:06:35  <andythenorth> current state
20:06:40  <andythenorth> kind of works, not weird in game, but eh
20:07:26  <andythenorth> IRL legal weight limits simply increased as tyre + brake technology got better
20:08:20  <andythenorth> I could make the body less deep on the lower capacity versions
20:08:55  <frosch123> hmm, i see, the ttd scale weirdness limits the number of tires
20:09:21  <andythenorth> there are only so many grid positions for them
20:09:30  <andythenorth> in \ / angles especially
20:09:53  <andythenorth> also number of axles is completely realisms, for British truck history :P
20:20:11  <andythenorth> is this better?  (extra axle on gen 3 truck)
20:25:21  <frosch123> yeah, more axles in the back than in the front looks better
20:26:54  <andythenorth> maybe gen 4 should be longer
20:27:12  <andythenorth> gen 2 is fine
20:30:08  * andythenorth rejects a longer gen 4 truck, looks blearch
20:30:45  <frosch123> what about height?
20:31:08  <frosch123> or is that more a cargo-specific thing?
20:32:21  <andythenorth> hard to make it work well
20:32:29  <andythenorth> also doesn’t apply to flatbed trucks :)
20:34:08  <andythenorth> I could chibi the gen 1 trucks some more
20:34:19  <frosch123> moddern flat bed trucks are lower
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20:37:57  <andythenorth>
20:38:03  <andythenorth> shorter early trucks?
20:38:12  <andythenorth> the body is almost invisible in \ / view
20:38:34  <Hiddenfunstuff> your 30 ton truck is strange
20:38:54  <frosch123> andythenorth: engine should be longer than the wagon
20:38:57  <Hiddenfunstuff> why would it have 2nd steering axle infront and the deadly trailer combination
20:39:25  <frosch123> Hiddenfunstuff: brittish trucks...
20:39:30  <frosch123> they are better with ships
20:39:31  <Hiddenfunstuff> Still
20:39:43  <Hiddenfunstuff> even as puny they are.. theres no need for 2nd steering axle
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20:40:02  <andythenorth> [shrug]
20:40:08  <Hiddenfunstuff> logical placement for that spare axle would be at the trailer's rear
20:40:12  <frosch123> Hiddenfunstuff: <- andy posted a picture earlier
20:40:16  <andythenorth> why is that logical?
20:40:27  <Hiddenfunstuff> Because you dont need 2nd steering axle with so low weights
20:40:31  <andythenorth> eh?
20:40:41  <andythenorth> how much do you think trucks carry? :P
20:40:48  <Hiddenfunstuff> 60 tons?
20:41:00  <Hiddenfunstuff> infact... with new laws.. 76, more upcoming
20:41:07  <andythenorth> you’re in Finland or what?
20:41:10  <Hiddenfunstuff> yes
20:41:17  <andythenorth> ha ha
20:41:47  <andythenorth> 76t gross?
20:41:51  <andythenorth> or payload?
20:41:51  <Hiddenfunstuff> total yes
20:42:03  <Hiddenfunstuff> around 50-55 tons of it is free for load
20:42:25  <Hiddenfunstuff> or 40 tons depending what sort of design you have on the truck
20:42:26  <andythenorth> UK payload is about 18t on 4 axles, 2 of which would usually be steered
20:42:38  <Hiddenfunstuff> ridiculous
20:43:12  <andythenorth> bearing in mind also, UK has one of highest payloads in western world :P
20:43:28  <Hiddenfunstuff> Why not single steering axle at front, then triples in the rear.. 1 powered double wheel axle, liftable double wheel and maybe steerable as last or infront of the powered axle
20:43:29  <andythenorth> most of EU and most of US is lower
20:43:40  <Hiddenfunstuff> US is being babies.. EU is a toddler
20:43:52  * andythenorth might do a Finnish roster
20:43:58  <Hiddenfunstuff> both are lagging far behind in the efficiency in terms of transporting stuff in single truck
20:44:02  <andythenorth> to go with the ‘Finland-ish’ eonomy in FIRS
20:44:19  <Hiddenfunstuff> if you do.. you may ask us for details.. considering we are what you call.. a professional
20:45:56  <Hiddenfunstuff> just dont understand the deal with multiple steering axles if you dont even have multiple powered axles
20:46:04  <andythenorth> bridge laws?
20:46:13  <andythenorth> not sure if that’s true
20:46:27  <Hiddenfunstuff> bridge laws do apply at one point
20:46:29  <andythenorth> they’re usually 4x2 (tandem) in the twinsteer configuration,
20:46:46  <Hiddenfunstuff> how can 4x2 twinsteer?
20:47:10  <andythenorth> what is finnish convention for describing configuration?  axles or wheels?
20:47:31  <Hiddenfunstuff> total numbers of wheels X powered wheels
20:47:36  <Hiddenfunstuff> thats globally
20:47:54  <Hiddenfunstuff> then manufacturers like to put all sort of dashes and sprinkling stars to mark steering or liftable axles
20:48:46  <andythenorth> eh you’re right, I’m wrong
20:48:57  * andythenorth has been making too many trains
20:49:03  <Hiddenfunstuff> Just pointing out right now before you confuse somebody else
20:49:57  <andythenorth> hmm even trains are same
20:49:59  <andythenorth> brain fart
20:50:59  <andythenorth> anyway, I have stuff like this saved for a scandinavian roster
20:51:23  <Hiddenfunstuff> Thats ancient combination for old weights
20:51:55  <Hiddenfunstuff> But still in use
20:52:11  <Hiddenfunstuff> Since not everybody can afford brand new truck and trailer combination for upgrading weights
20:52:19  <andythenorth> got a picture of newer combo?
20:52:39  <andythenorth> I want to do a roster with ridiculous capacity
20:52:45  <andythenorth> not US or Canadian
20:52:47  <Hiddenfunstuff>
20:52:53  <Hiddenfunstuff> Thats one of the more generic
20:53:05  <Hiddenfunstuff> steering - powered - powered - steering is the axle configuration in that
20:53:25  <Hiddenfunstuff> usually 9 axles in total equal in 76 ton possibility
20:54:11  <andythenorth> any bigger special types?
20:54:16  <andythenorth> logging trucks?
20:54:21  <Hiddenfunstuff>
20:54:23  <Hiddenfunstuff> 104 tons?
20:54:34  <andythenorth> B-train?
20:54:44  <Hiddenfunstuff> more like a semi trailer + full trialer
20:55:12  * andythenorth counting axles
20:55:20  <Hiddenfunstuff> 104 ton special permit combination under test scenarios
20:55:40  <Hiddenfunstuff> operates up north in predefined routes
20:55:51  <andythenorth> what HP?
20:55:56  <Hiddenfunstuff> 730
20:58:01  <andythenorth> biggest UK equivalent :P
20:58:12  <Hiddenfunstuff> Rofl
20:58:13  <andythenorth> 44t max gross
20:58:41  <Hiddenfunstuff> meanwhile you can put around same amount of weight on the truck alone here with 5 axles
20:58:56  <Hiddenfunstuff> actually i think even 4 is enough
21:00:10  <andythenorth> did all your bridges get rebuilt?
21:00:14  <Hiddenfunstuff> no
21:00:40  <Hiddenfunstuff> what sort of bridges do you build in the island that cant handle weight?
21:00:48  <andythenorth> old ones :P
21:00:50  <andythenorth> lots of them
21:01:02  <Hiddenfunstuff> obviously the 300 year old bridges are limited to like 3 tons max
21:01:13  <Hiddenfunstuff> as if such exists..
21:01:21  <Hiddenfunstuff> think worst are like 200 years old
21:01:38  <Alkel_U3> why somebody would build an old bridge today is beyond me :P
21:01:56  <andythenorth> it is confusing eh
21:02:05  <Hiddenfunstuff> atleast here the main bridges are built way oversize for its current requirements
21:02:26  <Hiddenfunstuff> and those that cannot handle the higher weight.. are marked so with max vehicle weight
21:02:31  <andythenorth> Canada 150t or so, but strictly off-highway
21:02:36  <andythenorth> off-highway is cheating :P
21:02:43  <Hiddenfunstuff> yeah
21:02:56  <Hiddenfunstuff> also the canadian logs are bit larger
21:05:55  <Alkel_U3> Damn. That's one truck I wouldn't want to drive behind.
21:06:04  <Hiddenfunstuff> the canadian one?
21:06:09  <Alkel_U3> yeah
21:06:12  <Hiddenfunstuff> Yup
21:06:27  <Hiddenfunstuff> totally overloaded for its capacity
21:06:28  <glx> they are crazy in canada, they drive on iced lakes
21:06:34  <frosch123> isn't behind better than in front of?
21:06:35  <Hiddenfunstuff> not only canadians do that
21:06:38  <Alkel_U3> keep distance or... funstuff
21:06:48  <Hiddenfunstuff> Also you know what would be worrying?
21:07:01  <Hiddenfunstuff> that truck do a full stop and those logs slide front crushing the cab
21:07:06  <Hiddenfunstuff> or in case of an collision
21:07:27  <Alkel_U3> frosch123: I've seen some pictures and videos of the logs 'spilling'
21:07:31  <Hiddenfunstuff> Yup
21:08:17  <Hiddenfunstuff> Thats why sophisticated (read: europe) has those thick steel walls behind the cab to hold the logs against it so they cant slide forwards anymore
21:08:51  <andythenorth> the Pacific has a large water tank between the logs and the cab :P
21:08:56  <andythenorth> but still...
21:09:08  <Hiddenfunstuff> absolutely does nothing to stop the logs
21:09:18  <andythenorth>
21:09:52  <andythenorth>
21:10:08  <Hiddenfunstuff> Yuppp
21:11:01  <Hiddenfunstuff> isnt it fun how even a light object turns deadly in collision.. say a subwoofer box in trunk of your car..
21:11:19  <andythenorth> big logs, these are 100t *payloads* in some cases :P
21:11:24  <andythenorth>
21:11:33  <Hiddenfunstuff> you come to a sudden stop.. violently.. somehow that box in your trunk makes its way to your back of the head and killing you instantly
21:12:19  <Alkel_U3> reminds me of some other cargo needing proper securing :D
21:12:31  <Hiddenfunstuff> ...
21:13:04  <Hiddenfunstuff> by law.. you should've made sure that none of the content could've find its way to somebody's windshield or fall off
21:13:15  <Hiddenfunstuff> basically cover it tightly with a tarp and then hope wind doesnt get under it
21:13:49  <Alkel_U3> so... why don't we have flatbeds hauling sand and gravel in openttd? :D
21:14:15  <Hiddenfunstuff> Yes. This is absolutely the best way to deliver loose material
21:14:21  <Alkel_U3> the second one isn't all flat, apparently
21:14:27  <Hiddenfunstuff> No
21:14:34  <Hiddenfunstuff> it has those 30cm tall sides
21:16:20  <Hiddenfunstuff> I'd say this is optimal load
21:16:43  <andythenorth> what could go wrong with that?
21:17:03  <andythenorth> Alkel_U3: that’s just to keep the doors strapped on :)
21:17:07  <Hiddenfunstuff> I dont know.. it was packed absolutely to the max like that all the way of the 10m space forwards
21:17:33  <peter1138> Probably overweight then...
21:17:38  <Hiddenfunstuff> nope
21:17:43  <Hiddenfunstuff> light parcels most of it
21:17:52  <Hiddenfunstuff> and the truck was more than capable of carrying it
21:17:59  <Hiddenfunstuff> Slightly oversize for its purpose
21:18:34  <Alkel_U3> andythenorth: yeah, the rail wagon doesn't look like utter nonsense, unlike the truck
21:21:16  <Hiddenfunstuff> peter1138 the truck was basic 3 axle 26 ton, had a trailer with it that was fortunately just pallet stuff so it was all just matter of playing tetris to fit them all in. and bam done.. had even like 800kg to spare from the  68 ton limit
21:21:34  <andythenorth> ‘cubed out’
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21:26:02  <Hiddenfunstuff> now though.. time to go work
21:34:06  <V453000> frosch123: honza is the most common name in czech republic :P
21:34:29  <Samu> virtual void OnInvalidateData(int data = 0, bool gui_scope = true)
21:34:40  <Samu> what is "data = 0" used for?
21:34:44  <V453000> also, just finished 0.13 achievement speedrun :D 7:43 to launch a rocket, with default settings and without peaceful mode
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21:36:42  <frosch123> i watched that speedrun that was linked from one of the fff
21:36:45  <Samu> ah, i think i understand
21:37:00  <frosch123> it's amazing how some things suddently later match up
21:37:14  <frosch123> but it is also worrying that people play the same map over and over again
21:37:24  <Samu> i can call OnInvalidateData and this data could be something I want, like a company slot
21:37:50  <Samu> is it not?
21:39:35  <V453000> it is on one hand absolutely incredibly amazing
21:39:49  <V453000> playing it within 2 hours is pure madness
21:40:04  <V453000> but playing one map, building exactly the same factory, is retardedly mad imo
21:40:29  <V453000> that is why I like the new achievement - it isn't peaceful which alone gives a lot of randomness and fun
21:41:22  <V453000> he basically just generated a great map to work with, thought of an excellent factory design to work with it, and invented execution order. The rest of the runs is just dull work and attempting to make the plan correctly. AI could do that
21:41:26  <V453000> anyway gnight
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22:26:24  <Wolf01> <V453000> also, just finished 0.13 achievement speedrun :D 7:43 to launch a rocket, with default settings and without peaceful mode <- peaceful mode is overrated, just put enough turrets all around and go to sleep
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22:40:10  <Alkel_U3> I guess that depends on what that "6-12 legged (or so) surprise they were promissing in one of the previous FFFs is :-)
22:41:44  <Wolf01> that one seem to be moved to 0.14
22:41:57  <Alkel_U3> oh, ok. Too bad
22:43:01  <Alkel_U3> if that's the case, the most badass, dangerous-looking critter will be the new loco
22:43:13  <Wolf01> that's astounding
22:45:30  <Alkel_U3> Now it looks properly factoriish - lots of pipes and junk held loosely together with a cab strapped to it; the separate boggies really add a lot, too
22:47:49  <Wolf01> I hope it will come in more colours :P
22:48:11  <Alkel_U3> so do I
22:49:19  <Alkel_U3> like for example the color of the biter blood, so I don't hace to clean it so often
22:49:26  <Wolf01> ahah :D
23:01:20  <Wolf01> nice... who tried to fast forward?
23:03:29  *** keoz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:04:15  <Alkel_U3> hm, I wonder if that could be attached to a spectrum analyser. Traffic jam with another meaning
23:05:08  <Samu> how do I add a // todo comment? like a pro, lol
23:05:33  <Samu> must find a todo comment, brb
23:06:58  <Wolf01> // todo: get your stuff done
23:06:59  <Wolf01> ?
23:08:23  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:13:27  <Samu>  // todo: this is needed here to avoid openttd crash, until this window can be managed in a different way
23:13:33  <Samu> like that?
23:14:13  <Samu>  // or until I get some skills
23:16:44  <Samu> DeleteWindowByClass(WC_TEXTFILE); // TODO: this is needed to avoid openttd crash, unless there's another way to manage WC_TEXTFILE
23:18:16  <Samu> i wanted to post a new revision of my ugly patch, but I guess i'm not ready
23:18:53  <Samu> random ai's are hard to manage... it's possible to have many different ways to crash openttd because of it
23:19:07  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:19:14  <Samu> tc
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