Log for #openttd on 6th June 2016:
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00:01:37  *** milda [] has joined #openttd
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00:05:53  <Quinch> Alrighty.
00:06:38  <Quinch> Second question, for cargo, how is travel time/distance calculated? As a straight line from the originating and destination points, or total distance traveled?
00:07:02  <FLHerne> Quinch: The former
00:07:05  <ST2> check ingame graphics
00:07:17  <Quinch> Also, is cargo decay calculated while the train is loading/waiting in station, or just while it's moving?
00:07:27  <FLHerne> Also the former
00:07:42  <Quinch> So, smaller trains are actually more efficient?
00:08:02  <ST2> as FLHerne said: The former
00:08:12  <FLHerne> On that specidic measure, yes
00:08:22  <FLHerne> f
00:08:23  <glx> that's why it's better to always have a vehicle loading in station, but not wait too long
00:08:26  <Quinch> What's the pros of long, multihead trains then?
00:08:43  <FLHerne> You need more short trains
00:08:52  <ST2> maybe Quinch needs this link
00:08:54  <ST2> :)
00:09:01  <glx> long coal trains are nice
00:09:13  <glx> (easy money)
00:09:21  <FLHerne> Higher infrastructure costs (can be a major factor on large networks), also running and purchase costs in many sets favour long trains
00:10:02  <ST2> I'll never use a 14 tile train for deliver 20 tiles distance
00:10:02  <FLHerne> Infra maintenance doesn't scale linearly with network size
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00:10:40  <glx> of course small distance is better with short train
00:11:29  <ST2> and btw, vanilla Infra maintenance is a bugged thing
00:11:36  <glx> and that also depends on industry output
00:12:08  *** Quinch_ [] has joined #openttd
00:12:15  <Quinch_> I think I got disconnected.
00:12:31  <Quinch_> But yeah, I use trains for medium/long range hauling.
00:12:47  <ST2> glx: if producing industry has a high output... deliver close is not an option ^^
00:12:48  <Quinch_> Short shuttling, go for boats or trucks, depending on how much I need to carry.
00:13:07  <ST2> at least if want to make profit
00:13:09  <glx> boats are slow
00:13:32  <Quinch_> And planes if I need to provide secondary goods to industries.
00:13:59  <Quinch_> Which also brings me to the question, other than production tiers, do any of FIRS2 industries vary their output?
00:14:00  <glx> even for offshore oil I prefer to raise land near the platform and use train
00:14:57  <ST2> glx: some online servers dnt allow it - becaise blocks other players from using the resource
00:15:34  <glx> understandable
00:15:40  <Islacrusez> glx, I love doing that with massively stacked oil rigs; tasty tasty 12-block long oil trains
00:16:00  <Islacrusez> preferably to a refinery at least 500 tiles away
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00:16:36  <glx> just to have them closed just before the first train arrives ;)
00:16:43  <ST2> distance only matters accounting vehicles speeds (and the paying rates too ^^)
00:17:20  <FLHerne> ST2: I disagree, the non-linear infra maintenance is a very good incentive  against ugly networks
00:17:47  <Islacrusez> I think it takes about half that distance for that juggernaut to get to speed, and the other half to slow down in time :P
00:18:07  *** Quinch_ is now known as Quinch
00:18:34  <Quinch> Islacrusez, use multiheads then?
00:18:50  <ST2> FLHerne: I could disagree too, until I set a server where ~500 electric track gave 40million expenses
00:19:14  <Islacrusez> I think I had three locos in there
00:19:16  <ST2> and yes, was without grf's
00:19:27  <ST2> newgrf's*
00:19:29  <Islacrusez> possibly four
00:19:47  <Islacrusez> let's just say that after it pulled out of the station there wasn't a single turn or elevation change
00:20:24  <ST2> FLHerne: 40million expenses, was talking on Euros
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00:21:02  <Islacrusez> the bigger problem turned out to be reliability
00:21:47  <FLHerne> ST2: That's where you go back and look for old track that you don't need
00:22:21  <Quinch> Anyway, anyone know much about FIRS?
00:22:56  <ST2> FLHerne: it's not expected players to remove tracks not needed - aka tracks that train made to deliver cargo
00:23:32  <FLHerne> That's why having a game mechanic that pushes people to do it is a good thing :-)
00:24:09  <FLHerne> I'm tired of servers where people have just randomly sprawled tracks across the map with about two trains per million tiles
00:24:21  <ST2> FLHerne: I'll get some free time next weekend
00:24:34  <ST2> and I'll setup a server with it
00:24:43  <ST2> care you to test?
00:24:59  <ST2> and survive :D
00:25:19  <FLHerne> Sounds fun, I don't think I'm doing anything
00:27:04  <ST2> ok, for now you can see BTPro server #XX, Infra maintenance is now set to 1/31 via basecosts newgrf
00:27:11  <ST2> 1/32*
00:27:25  <ST2> imagine as 1/1
00:27:33  <FLHerne> Well, for right now it's 1:20am and I'm going to sleep ;-)
00:27:50  <ST2> same time as here: 1:27
00:27:52  <ST2> xD
00:28:38  <ST2> and yes, I work at 8:30 am ^^
00:29:26  <FLHerne> Good morning, then
00:29:37  <ST2> kinda xD
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00:30:50  <ST2> note: our server srv13A (that you joined) is an easy one ^^
00:31:50  <Quinch_> Oh, another question, does crossing a square diagonally count as a full traverse?
00:32:16  <Quinch_> No, wait, that's been answered by the distance question.
00:32:50  <ST2>
00:33:13  <ST2> manhattan distance is the key :)
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00:36:58  <Quinch_> Anyway, no FIRS experts around?
00:37:16  <ST2> what FIRS version?
00:38:29  <ST2> because FIRS 1.4.* and FIRS 2+ are a bit different
00:39:06  <Quinch_> Second.
00:39:43  <ST2>
00:39:54  <ST2> all what you need to know ^^
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00:44:33  <BarbarianKabbage> Hello
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00:48:12  <Quinch_> More along the lines of strategies.
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00:59:51  <Quinch_> Oh, one more thing. What exactly "refit to any cargo" does?
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01:47:51  <Sylf> with firs, I first focus on engineering supplies.
01:48:34  <Sylf> creating engineering supplies, then transport them back to the primary industries that you used to create them
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01:48:59  <Sylf> oh nevermind.  OP isn't listening
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07:25:33  <Flygon> Hmm
07:25:52  <Flygon> It's a shame the way the engine is designed as it is doesn't allow for rising sea levels
07:25:59  <Flygon> Global Warming as a feature'd be cool
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07:42:32  <Alkel_U3> Alpha Centauri had such feature, you could actively raise or lower the sea level and flood your oponents' unprepared cities. Fun :-)
07:44:23  <Alkel_U3> I don't see much use for it in TT, though. It making sense to the game would IMO require so many changes, you might as well call it a new game :D
07:53:14  <Flygon> Alkel_U3: SMACX's implementation was very VERY hacky
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08:00:26  <Alkel_U3> perhaps... but the important thing is, now that I'v been reminded I need to play it for nostalgia reasons. As if I had the time for that.
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08:09:03  <Flygon> PLEASE DON'T GO
08:09:07  <Flygon> THE DRONES NEED YOU
08:09:11  <Flygon> THEY LOOK UP TO YOU
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08:16:32  <Wolf01> o/
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09:18:13  <monsted> Flygon: the drones look down on me :(
09:27:42  <Flygon> Try not being Kazon
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12:10:09  <Samu> hi
12:11:43  <greeter> greetings Samu
12:11:47  <Samu> I'm trying to use 1.6.1-RC1 again on an Athlon XP 2700+, but with different blitter modes
12:12:14  <Samu> there is a major boost in performance going brom 32bpp to 8bpp
12:12:19  <Samu> from*
12:13:32  <Samu> then there's another major boost in performance turning full animation off
12:13:46  <greeter> well i'm only speaking from my own personal experience, but i haven't seen it
12:14:13  <greeter> i run openttd on an ancient machine, and it runs just as smoothly in 32bpp as it does in 8bpp. but machines vary. only real way to see is to try it yourself
12:15:13  <Samu> there is a dwm.exe taxing about 32% CPU, then 68% for openttd when in 32bpp
12:15:22  <Samu> it's really sluggish
12:16:36  <Samu> turning off full animation drops dwm.exe usage to almost 0%
12:17:02  <jonty-comp> dwm is the windows aero manager
12:18:44  <Samu> in 8bpp mode, dwm is about 32-35% use with full animation, but openttd becomes lighter and has yet room to breathe
12:19:03  <Samu> about 50%
12:19:18  <Samu> still, the sum of both is taxing about 80-90% cpu
12:19:32  <Samu> definitely 8bpp helps
12:20:08  <Samu> then full animation turned off help much more, it goes down to about 3-10% cpu usage
12:21:35  <Samu> system uses windows 7
12:21:41  <Samu> 32 bit
12:21:44  <Samu> 2 GB ram
12:22:13  <Samu> ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 512 MB VRAM
12:22:59  <Samu> Athlon XP 2700+ as I said
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12:38:40  <Flygon> Oh man
12:38:48  <Flygon> I was gonna ask how you have enough RAM to run OpenTTD
12:38:59  <Flygon> Then I realized not everyone uses 4096*4096 maps
12:39:05  <greeter> rofl
12:39:20  <greeter> well i find 1024 x 1024 the most fun
12:39:39  <greeter> say, this reminds me, i'm thinking of starting an openttd server. is there somewhere i can go to see the minimum recommended/required system specs for that?
12:45:47  <greeter> actually, i think i got it, and the server meets the minimum requirements. thanks :-D
13:11:27  <jaenster> it also depends what OS you put on your ancient machine
13:13:55  <Alkel_U3> I got it running with ~5 people on a Cubieboard2 - dualcore cortex-a7 (the stable before cargodist, 512^2). I'd say the requirements for a basic server aren't really a concern
13:14:07  <Alkel_U3> other than stable conectivity, ofc
13:21:28  <jaenster> y but server or the game itself is something else
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13:40:31  <Alkel_U3> sure, I was just replying on the topic of the (presumably dedicated) server
13:49:26  <greeter> vps, and yeah, after seeing the system requirements page, it looks like i'm good to go. i just need to tidy up some stuff and get ready to compile the source
13:54:57  <greeter> though i'm starting to wonder how silly my game is going to look using american english and american dollars with metric measurements
13:56:23  <Islacrusez> well the americans aren't completely opposed to the metric system, if the popularity of the 9mm is anything to go by...
13:56:28  <Islacrusez> *ducks*
13:57:21  <greeter> lol
13:57:41  <greeter> well i didn't grow up in the united states but i'm very pro american. since i didn't grow up there i'm also pro metric :-P
14:03:37  <greeter> or i guess i can just install a binary :-S lol
14:09:35  <Islacrusez> that coding stuff is beyond me
14:09:41  * Islacrusez says as he learns java
14:10:36  <greeter> rofl, good luck, java was one language i never could wrap my head around
14:10:51  <greeter> course i never fully learned any language. c is probably the one i'm best in, but my skills there are mediocre at best
14:11:45  <Islacrusez> codecademy's intro to java is really good... it's just not nearly long enough for what I'm doing
14:12:02  <Islacrusez> there's a gap between the end of that and the start of the minecraft modding tutorial I'm following
14:12:09  <Islacrusez> I'm really hoping to be able to blag it
14:12:30  <greeter> wow, i'm actually running a dedicated openttd server :-D there's still work to do, but this is really neat
14:12:38  <greeter> ah i see
14:12:40  <greeter> good luck :-)
14:19:45  <greeter> hmm, the client isn't letting me add the server this time for some reason. i click the add button in the dialog and the window just disappears. the server registers a udp request though
14:21:09  *** Netsplit <-> quits: V453000, XeryusTC, xQR, Antheus, Yexo, +michi_cc, Alkel_U3, Stimrol, Lamp-, Taede,  (+1 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
14:22:13  *** Netsplit over, joins: V453000, +michi_cc, Stimrol, Alkel_U3, lobster, Taede, xQR, XeryusTC, Antheus, Lamp- (+1 more)
14:23:47  *** mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
14:23:50  *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
14:25:21  <greeter> never mind, i was a moron, found out what i was doing wrong :-)
14:26:46  <supermop_> yo
14:28:39  <greeter> greetings supermop_
14:31:41  <greeter> so one last newbie question. once i fire up the server, will anybody be able to see it in the openttd server list or do i need to do other things to add it?
14:39:57  <greeter> never mind, found that too.... feel free to lecture me about the virtues of patience at this point :-P
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14:47:48  <_johannes> Hey, I just reached 500 trains on a single player map... I know how to increase the max number of trains... do I have to expect lag with a modern CPU with more than 500 trains?
14:48:04  <_johannes> what's the highest number of trains anyone had?
14:49:32  *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
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14:49:44  <Alberth> moin
14:49:58  <greeter> greetings Alberth
14:52:39  <Wolf01> hoy
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14:53:35  <greeter> hmm
15:00:22  <greeter> guess i do have another question. i've seen that most servers have some sort of welcome message for connecting players. where would i go to set one up on my own server?
15:02:17  <Alkel_U3> I'm guessing that's a gamescript's work?
15:03:06  <greeter> ah, could be
15:04:54  <Wolf01> lol
15:05:04  <Alkel_U3> or this could be of relevance
15:05:05  <Sacro> Does nobody use autopilot anymore?
15:05:17  <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
15:05:17  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 34 weeks, 6 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
15:05:22  <Sacro> :(
15:06:18  <greeter> so it's been a while :-S
15:07:06  <Sacro> I can probably name people who have been away longer
15:07:07  <greeter> Alkel_U3: i think this will get me pointed in the right direction :-D thanks
15:07:10  <Sacro> @seen KUDr
15:07:10  <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen KUDr.
15:08:32  <Sacro> @seen DarkVator
15:08:32  <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen DarkVator.
15:08:37  <Sacro> @seen Dark|SSH
15:08:37  <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen Dark|SSH.
15:08:42  <Sacro> Pish
15:08:56  <Sacro> I wonder if he forgets people from over 5 years ago
15:08:56  <Alkel_U3> aww, there was a patch for server list filtering brewing. Too bad it didn't make it into the trunk :/
15:09:15  <peter1138> @seen darkvater
15:09:15  <DorpsGek> peter1138: darkvater was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 7 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 31 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Darkvater> good ol' days :)
15:09:20  <Eddi|zuHause> the bot was replaced somewhere half way through
15:09:33  <Sacro> well done peter1138
15:09:45  <Sacro> Was he?
15:09:58  <Sacro> I remember SpComb had a logs bot
15:10:16  <Sacro>
15:10:18  <Sacro> Or something
15:10:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, _42_ [or so] was the bot before DorspGek
15:10:25  <peter1138> @seen bornacorn
15:10:25  <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen bornacorn.
15:10:30  <peter1138> @seen born_acorn
15:10:30  <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen born_acorn.
15:10:32  <peter1138> hm
15:10:37  <peter1138> @seen belugas
15:10:37  <DorpsGek> peter1138: belugas was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 25 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Belugas> I'm fine, thanks!  Enjoying what i can, of course.  And you?
15:10:45  <Sacro> @seen corn_baron
15:10:45  <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen corn_baron.
15:10:46  <Alkel_U3> I'd really like to hide all of the password protected, version missmatched and language not-compatible-with-me servers
15:11:03  <Sacro> What happened to Belugas? :(
15:11:15  <Alkel_U3> possibly also the ones with goal or citibuilder in the name occasionaly
15:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> probably snow...
15:11:52  <Sacro> Yeah
15:15:42  <greeter> hmm took me a while to realize the autopilot comment from earlier is applicable to me lol
15:16:19  <Eddi|zuHause> why would you use autopilot if we have admin port now?
15:16:44  <greeter> admin port?
15:17:14  <greeter> it sounds like there's a lot i'm either not finding in the wiki or hasn't been added to it yet. maybe that should be my next project :-)
15:17:24  <Eddi|zuHause> autopilot was a tool to interact with a server through the command line
15:17:44  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: I miss old school openttd
15:17:47  <Sacro> Like, 0.3.5
15:17:51  <Sacro> 0.3.6 even
15:17:59  <Sacro> I remember the 0.4.0 release
15:18:04  <greeter> never played old school openttd to be honest, never played ttd either
15:18:38  <Eddi|zuHause> admin port is a proper server interaction protocol, designed to replace all the hacks that autopilot had to do
15:19:02  <Alberth> Sacro:  fear not, it still exists:
15:19:13  <Alkel_U3> I've been playing since 5, roughly when TT came out. That addiction scarred me for life :D
15:19:22  <greeter> can i get an motd with it? that's really the only thing i'm after now :-)
15:19:32  <Sacro> Alberth: somewhere I have a copy of the repo from back then
15:19:39  <greeter> lol Alkel_U3
15:19:42  <Sacro> From pre SVN rev 1
15:19:51  <Alberth> :O
15:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need admin port for a MOTD, there are on-join-scripts available
15:20:07  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: lies
15:20:19  <Sacro> I'm going to play some MiniIN
15:20:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i used to have a bridges-over-everything patch for miniin
15:20:58  <greeter> hmm i saw a thread on that, but the thread indicated that the scripts will show to everybody when a client connects
15:21:02  <Sacro> I need to enable NPF to have PBS
15:21:46  <Alkel_U3> that old PBS implemetation? Didn't that crash trins from time to time?
15:21:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: you better keep a separate .cfg file for miniin
15:22:04  <Alberth> a disaster feature for free!
15:22:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Alkel_U3: yeah. if two trains faced each other, they both just started up
15:22:43  <greeter> lol
15:22:45  <Alkel_U3> I don't know myself, I only saw a friend playing it. I was still on TTDPatch back then
15:23:02  <Alkel_U3> well, that's inconvenient :-)
15:24:01  <supermop_> miniin?
15:24:04  <Sacro> Alkel_U3: yes, I was a master at that
15:24:12  <Sacro> there's a forum post somewhere about me
15:25:07  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you had train>signal--track--signal<train they would be stuck, neither getting into the station. and you then forced one through the signal, as soon as you had train>signal<train the other one also started up and crashed into the first one
15:25:16  <Alkel_U3> I think I hopped over to OpenTTD with one of the last ChrisIN packs
15:27:06  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: I just had a habit of working on live junctions
15:27:26  <Alkel_U3> hm, can't find that post :-)
15:27:28  <greeter> awesome :-D got an motd, thanks for your help everyone
15:28:47  <Alkel_U3> greeter: for the greater good of me, how did you solve it in the end? I'm about to get a server up and running as well, so it'd save me some hassle :-)
15:29:20  <Alkel_U3> that's one of the reasons I got that VPS a few months ago after all
15:29:36  <Alkel_U3> the main one it being absolutely dirt cheap
15:29:50  <greeter> i created a directory in ~/.openttd/scripts (change for other operating systems as needed, this was for linux) and create a file named on_server_connect.scr
15:30:09  <Sacro> Alkel_U3: me neither right now
15:30:15  <Alkel_U3> that, ok, thanks
15:30:20  <Sacro> I recall it being after a run of about 18 hours playing
15:30:23  <greeter> then just add your motd there. i needed to use but it's deadly easy, otherwise i couldn't have done it lol
15:30:36  <Sacro> And then Akalamanaia took my company over in the morning
15:31:00  <greeter> my server is just about ready to go live, so if you need any help, feel free to ask. if i'm around i'll help out if i can
15:31:43  <Sacro> I miss Brianetta's Standard
15:31:46  <Sacro> :( *sad*
15:33:53  <greeter> Brainetta's standard?
15:35:01  <Sacro> Server
15:35:06  <Sacro> Very popular back in the day
15:35:07  <greeter> ah i see
15:37:02  <greeter> i actually haven't played on any servers before, except for one a friend of mine started. i've spectated a few, just skimming for gameplay tips/tricks/tactics
15:38:17  <Alkel_U3> greeter: so, where's the server? Is it live yet? I'm in the mood to build something right now :D
15:38:41  <greeter> not yet, i wanted to write a rules page, but i'll make it live if you want to try it out
15:39:07  <Alkel_U3> well I'm good, I'll wait for the rules :P
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15:40:20  <greeter> alrighty then. i want to write them because i was playing against an ai the other day that cut off the building of one of my train tracks, rather maliciously at that
15:42:41  <Alkel_U3> on my last server I think I restricted max speed of trains on level crossing and specified min. PBS headroom in front of a crossing for different speeds - can't remember how actively that was used
15:43:26  <greeter> ok, firing up the server
15:43:36  <greeter> hmm interesting
15:43:45  <Sacro> Need to try a mod pack again
15:43:52  <greeter> hmm, and it quit i think
15:44:26  <Alkel_U3> JGR's pack is the current top, I'd say
15:45:21  <greeter> hmm, something got borked in my config file
15:45:31  <supermop_> does it have departure boards?
15:45:45  <sim-al2> it does
15:46:29  <Alkel_U3> it even has close-adjacent-crossings patch!
15:47:15  <Alkel_U3> not that I build those often, but with forced speed reduction via timetables they actualy make sense to build sometimes
15:47:42  <greeter> for some reason, the game is trying to resolve the domain name "f" :-S and it isn't starting for that reason
15:47:52  <supermop_> seems like spring 2013 patch patch wshould update it's name
15:48:25  <Sacro> I was looking at the other one,
15:48:31  <Sacro> Might hav e the deceleration patch
15:48:37  <Sacro> And 4 signal system
15:48:44  <Sacro> red/yellow/doubelyellow/green
15:48:52  <supermop_> i drew those sprites!
15:49:25  <Alkel_U3> whoo, looks like I'll be shopping around for another patchpack, then :-)
15:49:43  <supermop_> there are some unexpected, but maybe intentional drawback where you have single branchlines joining
15:49:45  <Sacro> supermop_: grats
15:49:59  <Sacro> can you not use a PBS signal there?
15:50:07  <Sacro> Or does it reserve in front of the mainline?
15:50:21  <Sacro> Maybe you need to use non-PBS
15:50:28  <Sacro> I'll look into it
15:50:28  <supermop_> non pbs helps
15:50:35  <Sacro> I might get back into ttd patching
15:50:43  <supermop_> it will always try to get 3 blocks
15:51:16  <greeter> ok Alkel_U3 i have the server running now. want me to notice the address?
15:51:16  <Sacro> Yeah
15:51:28  <Sacro> Need PBS pre-signals
15:51:33  <supermop_> so if its a long single line without signals on its length it will reserve onto the mainline as soon as it leaves its terminus
15:51:40  <Sacro> Oooh
15:51:47  <Sacro> Can you not use a distant/home setup?
15:52:06  <Alkel_U3> greeter: I thought you'd be advertised :-)
15:52:08  <Sacro> Put a signal braking distance before the junction protecting signal?
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15:52:24  <greeter> i am, but it's a big list and i don't know how well that works and what not
15:52:28  <Sacro> So it reserves upon passing it?
15:52:30  <supermop_> its not that advanced, but i got around it by placing 3 signals leading up to junction
15:52:38  <Sacro> *nod* that's what I meant
15:52:48  <Sacro> 3?
15:52:57  <Sacro> Are you forced into 4 aspect signalling?
15:52:58  <supermop_> to 'soak up' the 3 blocks worth or reservation
15:53:01  <supermop_> yes
15:53:13  <Sacro> Darn, does the 'implicit' station signal not count as 1?
15:53:18  <Sacro> If not then it should
15:53:27  <supermop_> it just replaces 2 aspect pbs with 4 aspect
15:53:28  <Alkel_U3> greeter: well, since I don't see anything that would hint your server, yes, please
15:53:36  <greeter> alright
15:53:36  <Sacro> Be nice to have 2/3/4 selectable
15:53:42  <Sacro> Or even go for the full on 5 aspect!
15:53:50  <supermop_> including anywhere train tries to make reservations, like termini and depots
15:53:54  <supermop_> yeah
15:54:08  <supermop_> no pallet animation for blinking green
15:54:25  <Sacro> Sadly
15:54:50  <supermop_> also no room on semaphore sprite for both arms to be vertical without signal getting insanely tall
15:55:02  <Sacro> I'm hoping has the patch
15:55:27  <Sacro> Semaphores are insanely tall!
15:55:47  <supermop_> i never tried that guys 'evil' braking mode to go with it
15:56:16  <Sacro> That's what I want :D
15:56:30  <Sacro> I don't want insta'braking
15:56:45  <supermop_> which would defeat my cheat that had 3 signals in a row at the junction by having my trains fly through the 2nd and 3rd because they couldn't brake
15:56:49  <Sacro> Yep
15:56:57  <Sacro> Hence my 'distant signal at braking distance'
15:57:20  <supermop_> man been getting a ton of instagram spam followers lately
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15:59:00  <supermop_> sacro, you also had issues where long runs from a signal to a stopping point, such as branching onto a branch line, would be run at the 'caution' speed for approaching a red signal
15:59:17  <Sacro> You need to put the caution the right distance away
15:59:47  <supermop_> you can configure that speed to whatever you want, but you will have trains running the whole branch at 40kmh or so
15:59:57  <supermop_> or into a station
16:00:39  <supermop_> i think i set my speeds to 100/80 up from 80/40
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16:00:55  <supermop_> because i mostly wanted the line spacing effects
16:02:58  <supermop_> but yeah, once train leaves mainline to head down a single track, it will drive as if approaching a red even if end of line is 100 tiles away
16:04:54  *** Gja [] has joined #openttd
16:08:06  <Sacro> That's possibly a pain, possibly not
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17:04:13  <glx> hello
17:04:27  <greeter> greetings glx
17:04:30  <Islacrusez> hullo
17:06:42  <supermop_> Sacro: again you can put some signals leading up to EOL but you need to be careful that you do not end up trapping trains at  the terminus then
17:07:22  *** rahtgaz [] has joined #openttd
17:19:11  <supermop_> did you end up picking a patch pack to go with?
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17:42:32  <Quinch> Heyo. More silly questions!
17:44:35  <greeter> ask away Quinch, we may have silly answers :-P
17:44:42  <Quinch> With NewGRFs, is there a way to tell how fast a train will unload for specific carriage?
17:44:59  <supermop_> nly by observation
17:45:14  <V453000> supermop_: some proper sets also mention it in the purchase menu :P
17:45:23  <supermop_> some new grfs will add a helpful description, but not all
17:45:58  <Quinch> Dangit. Okay.
17:46:02  <supermop_> sometimes they will say "fast, slow," etc for loading speed
17:46:12  <V453000> Quinch: which set are you using?
17:46:28  <supermop_> sometimes they will say a number of days for full load/unload
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17:46:36  <Quinch> V, a lot of them.
17:46:57  <supermop_> sometimes they just say "commuter" or "intercity" and you have to guess what that means,
17:47:05  <V453000> ever tried NUTS?
17:47:13  <supermop_> but most of the time the author will provide no information
17:47:19  <Quinch> Probably not, what's it do?
17:48:13  <V453000> add trains in a proper fashion :)
17:48:22  <V453000>
17:48:38  <V453000> if you like to build big networks, it is just for you
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17:50:33  <Quinch> Huh, looks cool. Is it compatible with FIRS2?
17:50:35  <Sacro> supermop_: yeah
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17:51:00  <Islacrusez> does everything need a self-referencing name by law now?
17:51:19  <V453000> NUTS is compatible with everything Quinch
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17:51:35  <V453000> more than that, it is the only train set which actually at least tries to have graphics for all cargoes individually
17:52:02  <Quinch> Hey, cool.
17:52:35  <Islacrusez> V453000, ?
17:52:39  <V453000> ?
17:53:05  <Islacrusez>  tries to have graphics for all cargoes individually ? what's this mean? and as opposed to?
17:53:41  <Quinch> I'm guessing that each cargo type looks different when loaded into the carriage?
17:53:49  <V453000> all other train sets have for example 1 sprite of a wagon with containers, and it uses that sprite for engineering supplies, goods, manufacturing supplies, paper, rubber and fruit, ...
17:54:00  <V453000> NUTS will have unique sprites for each of those cargoes so you can recognize them visuall
17:54:02  <V453000> y
17:54:25  <V453000> it is a lot of work but I believe it is important to make a nice set
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17:55:28  <Islacrusez> sounds reasonable
17:56:40  <V453000> nobody does it though
17:57:12  <Quinch> Are there any NUTS-type balance-focused sets for other vehicle types too?
17:57:26  <V453000> roadhog is pretty good, eGRVTS is nice
17:57:27  <Islacrusez> eh, when there's an unspecified number of cargoes out there, it's impossible to catch them all
17:57:39  <V453000> I caught them all Islacrusez
17:57:55  <V453000> with FIRS2 new cargoes this needs updating, but for years that has been the case
17:58:03  <V453000> basically it works until someone makes a new unique cargo
17:58:26  <Islacrusez> so you don't know if you caught them all; you just haven't heard of one you missed
17:58:52  <V453000> considering only industry sets released on bananas, and thus multiplayer viable, I do know
17:59:16  <Islacrusez> so not all of them, just a specific subset :P
17:59:37  <V453000> you would consider non-bananas industries?
18:00:04  <Quinch> I'm guessing you made NUTS?
18:00:08  <V453000> yes
18:00:14  * Islacrusez doesn't even know what bananas is
18:00:23  <V453000> the content download
18:00:40  <Quinch> Cool.
18:00:47  <Islacrusez> the what?
18:00:58  <V453000> ever clicked the Check online content button in openttd?
18:01:05  <Islacrusez> probably
18:01:11  <V453000> bananas is what we call the server where all of the newgrfs and things are
18:01:19  <V453000>
18:01:24  <V453000> have you even played with newgrfs on?
18:01:59  <Islacrusez> I've been using newgrfs since before there was an OTTD
18:02:05  <greeter> as i just found out, they let anybody upload if they agree to the terms and conditions :-D
18:02:14  <V453000> then how don't you know about bananas :d
18:02:43  <V453000> well, rule breaking content is removed greeter
18:04:00  <greeter> makes sense. i only found out because i decided to try uploading a newgrf i made for local use, and it worked
18:04:08  <Islacrusez> because bananas was after my time?
18:05:06  <V453000> ok :)
18:05:34  <V453000> bananas is there for 11 years now, but XD
18:07:10  <Islacrusez> so it predates me by a grand total of a year, but it sure as hell wasn't that well known among TTDP players
18:07:15  <Quinch> At first glance, NUTS seems a bit... confusing.
18:07:31  <Islacrusez> join date:  	m4rek 	 Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:06 am
18:07:42  <greeter> hmm
18:08:15  <V453000> there is just a lot of engines Quinch, that is why there is the page I sent you with an eventual wiki ... but either of them works, just pick one you like and over time you can focus on using them efficiently
18:11:06  <Quinch> I seem to be having trouble finding one that works with carriages.
18:11:29  <V453000> all of them, you just need correct wagons
18:11:32  <V453000> rail trains use rail wagons
18:11:36  <V453000> monorail trains use monorail wagons
18:11:58  <V453000> but yeah that is one of the bigger reasons why I started designing a new train set
18:12:05  <V453000> when I get some time, I will make them graphics
18:12:26  <V453000> NUTS is fixable but through insane amount of effort
18:19:31  <frosch123> V453000: bananas was added in 2008 or 2009
18:19:54  <V453000> I thought 2005
18:19:57  <V453000> but ok :)
18:20:02  <V453000> still kind of a long time :P
18:20:24  <frosch123> 2005 may be the first time there was multiplayer
18:21:04  <V453000> :)
18:21:19  <Islacrusez> how old is OTTD anyway? don't think us TTDP guys really mingled with you lot too much
18:21:34  <frosch123> 2004-03-06
18:21:34  <V453000> TTDP community tried to separate itself for some unknown reasons
18:21:54  <V453000> the remaining newgrf authors seem to do that up to this date
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18:36:19  <andythenorth> o/
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18:39:57  <frosch123> lo
18:46:12  <Alberth> o/
18:48:30  <andythenorth> is cat eh?
18:48:39  <greeter> 12hmm?
18:48:45  <greeter> not sure how that 12 got in there
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18:49:28  <frosch123> maybe you meant h12m
18:49:55  <greeter> maybe :-P
18:51:58  <andythenorth> anyone played megapolis?
18:52:02  <andythenorth> sprites look nice
18:52:22  <andythenorth> :P
18:52:50  <andythenorth> trains and boats and stuff
18:53:00  <andythenorth> pay-to-play probably
18:53:51  <frosch123> watch a movie instead
18:54:00  <Taede> 'get 30 megabucks for free' sais it all really
18:54:09  <frosch123> something like a miniing documentation or so
18:57:09  * andythenorth considers industries that can be clicked on for openttd
18:57:15  <andythenorth> and they’d do arbitrary stuff
18:57:42  <Alkel_U3> like... a Cookie Factory?
18:57:58  <Alkel_U3> Cookie Clicker insede OpenTTD! \o/
18:59:39  <frosch123> andythenorth: there was a suggestion that the bubbles from the bubblegenerator should be pop-able
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19:00:11  <andythenorth> I would use this fine new feature for important gameplay benefits
19:00:18  <andythenorth> like sheep that go ‘baa’ when you click them
19:01:48  <frosch123> should we add a "horn" button to the vehicle gui?
19:02:47  <andythenorth> Mario kart 8 has that
19:02:59  <andythenorth> but only for the player with the fancy handset thing
19:03:29  <andythenorth> I think ‘horn’ might be a great v2 feature
19:03:34  <andythenorth> serious innovation
19:04:02  <V453000> frosch123: any chance for vehicle layers? :)
19:05:56  <supermop_> andythenorth: shoot down helicopter by clicking repeatedly with centering tool?
19:06:41  *** Wormnest [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:07:26  <frosch123> sure
19:07:36  <frosch123> time will tell :)
19:09:47  <andythenorth> couldn’t we composite them in-game to a single sprite?
19:09:59  <andythenorth> and change them if a cb runs?
19:10:28  <frosch123> the tricky thing is always the spec
19:10:33  <frosch123> who cares about the implementation?
19:10:41  *** gelignite [] has joined #openttd
19:10:44  <frosch123> it can be changed whenever there is a better idea
19:11:03  <andythenorth> or a worse one?
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19:14:16  <V453000> :)
19:14:19  *** Gja [] has joined #openttd
19:15:43  <supermop_> move fast and break things?
19:16:07  *** Arveen [] has joined #openttd
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19:30:57  <andythenorth> shunting, again?
19:31:05  <andythenorth> oh, I was in suggestions forum by mistake
19:31:06  <andythenorth> oops
19:31:28  <supermop_> shunt fast and crash trains
19:31:35  <glx> fatal error andythenorth ;)
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19:40:33  * andythenorth back to trucks
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19:52:55  <Belugas> booh!
19:53:04  <greeter> greetings Belugas
19:53:07  * Belugas resets counter of "last seen"
19:53:24  <greeter> nothing wrong with that
19:53:30  * Belugas greets greeter and his greetings!
19:53:45  <greeter> what's up?
19:54:18  <Belugas> the sun, it is still high in the sky, even behind clouds :S
19:54:42  <Belugas> other than that... not much ;)
19:54:44  <greeter> hmm it's behind the clouds here too
19:54:45  <Belugas> and you?
19:54:51  <Rubidium> bonjour Belugas
19:55:02  <greeter> started my own server for the first time :-D so pretty thrilled about that
19:55:05  <Belugas> Rubidium!  hello you :D
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19:55:45  <greeter> it's a regular party now :-)
19:55:46  <Belugas> greeter, honest, i've not touched the system for like... a long time
19:55:53  <greeter> oh?
19:56:25  <Belugas> too much distractions in this world ^^
19:56:45  <greeter> ah, that can be tough to combat for sure
19:57:21  <Belugas> Remko, i tought about you lately, i was looking over the picts when we roamed a bit Quebecs' roads.  was nice..
19:57:59  <greeter> you're in quebec?
19:58:33  <Rubidium> Belugas: yeah, that was fun
19:59:24  <Belugas> note that 25k party was noce too!  greeter, in Montreal to be precise
20:00:13  <greeter> ah, not too far from here in new brunswick
20:00:57  <Belugas> relatively speaking, yes :)
20:01:21  <Belugas> never been there, my foather told me a lot of good thinks of your province :)
20:01:29  <Belugas> father...
20:01:37  <greeter> he and i must have been to different parts of the province :-P
20:01:51  <greeter> never been to montreal myelf, but i've been to quebec once before. spent a week touring the gaspe peninsula
20:01:57  <Rubidium> interestingly the 25k party was in Brunswick (or rather the German equivalent name of it)
20:02:05  <Belugas> ^^
20:02:06  <greeter> interesting
20:02:09  <V453000> Braunschweig
20:02:24  <V453000> I actually had no clue I am going to Brunswick for a good while XD
20:02:39  <greeter> nice
20:03:00  <andythenorth> hmm trucks
20:03:55  <Belugas> beer was good in Braunschweig.  too bad they don't kow about credit cards lol!
20:04:08  <Belugas> ho.. no... that was the other country...
20:04:16  <Belugas> damned
20:04:52  <greeter> lol
20:05:53  <Rubidium> Belugas: you just need maestro, not that useless visa stuff
20:05:58  <Belugas> greeter, you know, when you stay for long at the same place, you tend to not see the beauty of it.  when you travel, you discover the place with new eyes
20:06:15  <Belugas> yeah Rubidium :)
20:06:33  <Belugas> bt my wife and i never had any debit card, just credit. even now.
20:06:45  <greeter> that is true. other places in new brunswick look better to me than places near my home, since i don't leave the forest much. but then people comment out here about natural beauty, especially at night if they can see the stars
20:06:54  <Belugas> she lokes to play in the invoicing dates, to get more time to pay..
20:07:22  <Belugas> "loves"
20:07:31  * Belugas shakes up the dirt off keyboard
20:07:41  <Rubidium> you don't need a creditcard to play with that
20:07:46  * glx prefers immediate debit
20:10:02  * Rubidium prefers debit as well
20:11:18  <Belugas> yeah well.. she has her habits, i cannot change the way she does things. Me and money, anyway, are not to be mixed
20:11:19  <Rubidium> no need to account for: how much money do I owe on the credit card, so how much more can I spend. Just happens on one account. Also, since money is "gone" immediately, you are less likely to overspend
20:13:34  <Rubidium> also, in most cases credit cards are more expensive over here than debit cards
20:14:31  <Rubidium> I seem to remember having to pay about EUR 2.5 per ATM transaction, whereas that's free for my debit card
20:15:18  * andythenorth just uses the card with the nicest colours
20:15:28  <andythenorth> whatever that happens to be that day
20:16:32  <Belugas> you need to spend a lot to reach your limit ;)  At least for me. Plus, if you pay invoice before deadline, you don't pay a cent
20:17:01  <V453000> my invoice even pays itself for 1 euro per month
20:17:02  <Belugas> AND i only use CC that do not ask to pay a yearly fee for the "benefits" of that card
20:17:37  * Belugas likes andythenorth's approach ^^
20:18:20  <Belugas> but hey, i guess all habits are relevant to one's culture and/or experience ;)
20:18:58  <Belugas> break's over.  love you guys.  see you in sometimes ^^
20:22:00  <Rubidium> fees for CC are about 1.5-2% of transaction + 0.15 setup fee, fees for the more-or-less standard Dutch thing to pay over the internet are about EUR 0.15 per transaction, effectively if you pay EUR 100 over the internet, a CC costs about EUR 1.5 and the standard Dutch way EUR 0.15
20:22:47  <Rubidium> paypal is slightly cheaper than both though, but harder to setup/maintain
20:23:08  <andythenorth> also I use the one I can remember the PIN for :P
20:23:25  <glx> I have only one so that's easy
20:23:38  <Rubidium> one PIN, or one card?
20:23:43  <glx> one card
20:26:47  <Wolf01> I don't have transaction fees for my cc, but if I spend over 2000€ I have to pay a fixed fee of 40€/yr
20:27:34  <andythenorth> Wolf01: Arocs arrived today, £130
20:27:38  <Rubidium> Wolf01: the transaction fees are for the person selling stuff to you
20:28:18  <Rubidium> in the Netherlands it's almost normal to ask for a 2% surcharge for paying with credit card over the cheapest option
20:29:58  <Wolf01> not always, you have to pay for a cc here, and different banks have different ways, in my case it's the fee for over 2000€/yr, the previous one was 5€/month, another one I was looking at had something like 0.025€/transaction
20:30:42  <Rubidium> here you pay for the creditcard *and* the person selling you stuff pays as well
20:31:20  <Wolf01> yes, that is the same here too
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20:32:14  <Wolf01> this one was really good because of that "high" limit... but last year I purchased the trip to Japan :P
20:32:56  <Wolf01> I usually spend 800-1400€/yr on internet
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20:33:52  <Wolf01> andythenorth: discounted or full price?
20:35:03  <Wolf01> I have a fixed 20% discount on all sets except the featured ones
20:35:29  <Wolf01> so last time I purchased another arocs too :P
20:36:37  <andythenorth> discounted, usually £170
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21:53:53  <supermop_> get to ride a new (to me) train line tomorrow
22:16:22  <Eddi|zuHause> riding a line sounds painful. it has too few dimensions to sit on properly
22:18:22  <supermop_> well at least it is infinitely long
22:18:26  <Alkel_U3> well, ever had to use a meeting point?
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